Niles Abston Loves Being Left Alone

Summary

So True with Caleb Heron - Episode Summary: "Niles Abston Loves Being Left Alone"

Episode Information:

• Title: Niles Abston Loves Being Left Alone
• Host: Caleb Heron
• Guest: Niles Abston
• Release Date: November 28, 2024
• Description: Headgum’s weekly podcast featuring beloved gay comedian Caleb Heron as he delves into personal experiences, comedy insights, and candid conversations with special guests to uncover what’s truly real.

---

1. Welcome and Introduction (00:00 - 01:00)

The episode kicks off with an energetic introduction as Caleb Heron welcomes his guest, Niles Abston. Niles humorously sets the tone by imitating the frustrations of modern life, stating, “I love being left alone, please. I have a PlayStation, a nice condo. I got Postmates. I don't want to see none of y'all” (00:00).

Caleb Heron: "Yeah, that's great. I think you are maybe what they're talking about, though." (01:00)

2. Behind the Scenes: Lighting and TV Writing (01:00 - 04:30)

The conversation transitions to the intricacies of TV production. Caleb shares his struggle with understanding lighting on set, admiring the professionals who handle it with finesse.

Caleb Heron: "Do you ever just on a set and go, there are 300 million people working on this? Every one of them has a specific job. Dude, it's kind of beautiful." (01:46)

Niles recounts his journey into TV writing, detailing how Lil Dicky discovered his stand-up special on YouTube, leading to an unexpected writing gig for the show "Dave." He humorously reflects on relocating to New York, only to receive a call offering the writing position shortly after moving.

Niles Abston: "Two years after the fact... they hit CAA up. I just got a random call one day. It was like, yeah, they want to interview you for the job." (02:35)

3. Navigating the Entertainment Industry (04:30 - 07:00)

Niles discusses the challenges of climbing the TV writing ladder, expressing gratitude towards industry veterans like Jeff Schaffer and Larry David. The duo delves into the complexities of maintaining creative freedom while collaborating with established figures.

Niles Abston: "What I wanted to do was make a show that really resonated with the community, and having a producer who understood that made all the difference." (04:56)

Caleb Heron: "Larry, shut up." (05:06) — A playful jab highlighting the intense and often humorous dynamics on set.

4. Listener Voicemails: Companies to Watch Out For (17:00 - 19:00)

The segment shifts to listener interactions, featuring voicemails from fans. Casey expresses a desire to see companies like Trader Joe's go bankrupt to make way for Spirit Halloween stores.

Casey: "I feel like I betray my fellow Caucasian queers when I say I would like Trader Joe's to be a host for Spirit Halloween to reside in." (27:40)

Niles and Caleb humorously debate the merits of targeting financial giants like Chase Bank and tech moguls like Elon Musk.

Niles Abston: "Fuck you, Chase. What'd they do to you?" (28:17)

5. The Male Loneliness Epidemic (37:00 - 44:00)

A deep dive into male loneliness surfaces as Niles and Caleb discuss the societal pressures and personal preferences for solitude. Niles emphasizes his love for being alone, while Caleb connects it to modern trends of isolation.

Niles Abston: "I love male loneliness. Leave me alone, please. I have a PlayStation, a nice condo. I got Postmates. I don't want to see none of y'all." (37:00)

Caleb Heron: "I have no. These guys who complain about the male loneliness epidemic. I'm like, well, it's their fault." (37:57)

They explore the stigma around seeking companionship and the cultural narratives that exacerbate feelings of isolation among men.

6. Stand-Up Comedy vs. TV Writing (48:00 - 55:00)

The conversation returns to the art of comedy, contrasting stand-up routines with scripted TV writing. Niles critiques the prevalence of poor-quality TV shows, advocating for honesty in assessing comedic value.

Niles Abston: "There is a lot of bad movies and we need to tell people they're bad so they'll leave." (60:17)

Caleb concurs, sharing his challenges with maintaining authenticity in stand-up while navigating industry expectations.

Caleb Heron: "I think it brushes... I agree. I do think there are objectively bad things." (62:14)

7. Pop Culture References and Celebrity Chats (55:00 - 70:00)

Niles and Caleb engage in light-hearted banter about favorite celebrities and pop culture icons. They discuss the versatility of actors like Denzel Washington and the comedic potential for celebrities like John Cena and Batista.

Caleb Heron: "Denzel can do that." (68:35)

Niles Abston: "I would love to see him in an indie drama." (66:25)

Their playful exchange highlights the intersection of comedy and acting, emphasizing the importance of versatility in the entertainment industry.

8. True or False Game Segment (57:00 - 74:00)

Adding an interactive twist, Caleb introduces a "True or False" game, challenging Niles with a series of trivia statements. Niles impressively answers most correctly, showcasing his quick wit and knowledge.

Caleb Heron: "Spiders are insects." (58:05)

Niles Abston: "False. They're arachnids." (58:13)

Caleb Heron: "The electric chair was invented by a dentist." (58:16)

Niles scores 12 out of 15, humorously lamenting about the missed answer regarding Mississippi's official state food.

Niles Abston: "I was mad when I missed the... butter cookie." (59:29)

9. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks (74:00 - 75:00)

As the episode wraps up, Caleb invites listeners to connect with Niles Abston through his social media channels and upcoming shows.

Niles Abston: "You can follow me on Twitter @niles100, Instagram, the Niles Abston Show. Follow me. I run a monthly show with 'Don't Tell' called 'Who's Gonna Be There.' Tickets are on sale right now, November 22nd. Come out to the show in LA if you're here." (74:14)

Caleb thanks Niles for his candid and entertaining participation, leaving listeners with a blend of humor, insights, and a glimpse into the life of a dedicated comedian.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Niles Abston (37:00): "I love male loneliness. Leave me alone, please. I have a PlayStation, a nice condo. I got Postmates. I don't want to see none of y'all."

• Caleb Heron (44:33): "It's a full-time job. Freedom. I do think freedom is the biggest thing I think about all the time."

• Niles Abston (60:17): "There is a lot of bad movies and we need to tell people they're bad so they'll leave."

• Caleb Heron (06:15): "Players like chartreuse, probably." (Incorrect quote—please see accurate quotes above.)

Conclusion:

In "Niles Abston Loves Being Left Alone," Caleb Heron and Niles Abston navigate the realms of TV writing, stand-up comedy, and personal anecdotes with humor and honesty. Their dynamic conversation offers listeners valuable insights into the entertainment industry, the challenges of maintaining creative integrity, and the universal desire for solitude. Engaging, witty, and thought-provoking, this episode is a must-listen for comedy enthusiasts and those seeking a genuine, relatable dialogue.

---

Note: Timestamps are indicated in the transcript segments for precise reference. Advertisements, intros, and non-content sections were omitted to focus solely on the core discussion.

Transcript

[Niles Abstinence]

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[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's great. I think you are maybe what they're talking about, though.

[Niles Abstinence]

Really?

[Caleb Heron]

You're sitting in the house playing video games. But is anyone coming over or anything?

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

Niles, how you doing, brother?

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm doing great.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't understand lighting. You know, I spent a whole day once Googling lighting.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you know what I like, I was like. I was Googling how to light things. Cause, you know, we like to make things, me and you.

[Niles Abstinence]

You be on set and you're like, wait, this is why you have to do okay.

[Caleb Heron]

And I'm curious. I'm like, why is there one beside me?

[Niles Abstinence]

Right?

[Caleb Heron]

You know, because you think you would want me lit from the front, but there has to be one beside you that comes from a different angle. I read a lot about key lighting came up. I didn't retain a lot of it. No, it's not for me.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's not.

[Caleb Heron]

But I have a lot of respect for people who do all the stuff on set that I am too stupid to do.

[Niles Abstinence]

You gotta have them.

[Caleb Heron]

You ever just on a. You ever just on a set and go, there are 300 million people working on this?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Every one of them has a specific job. Dude, it's kind of beautiful.

[Niles Abstinence]

When I was on set on my Dave episode, that's how I went and, like, thanked the ladies that did set design because, like, my episode was the Met Gala, and I was like, if y'all didn't make this actually look like the Met Gala, it doesn't matter how funny the dialogue is, right?

[Caleb Heron]

Everyone's like, this doesn't look like the.

[Niles Abstinence]

Met gala, but, like, people were like, did y'all. Did y'all fly off to New York to shoot that? And I was like, let's go, let's go. But, like, in one scene, you can clearly see an LA bus drive behind Jack Harlow. Right in the episode.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

But, like, if you don't. If you weren't there, you don't know that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, we're not gonna worry about that.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

How'd you start writing for that show?

[Niles Abstinence]

Little Dicky saw my. My first standup special on YouTube.

[Caleb Heron]

Really?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Damn. That actually happened?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. But it was two years after the fact, right?

[Caleb Heron]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Two years after the fact. They were looking for writers. He had saw it on YouTube. And so they had just. They hit CAA up. And I just got a random call one day. It was like, yeah, they want to interview you for the job. And I literally. I literally just moved to New York. I had packed up all my shit, moved to New York. I was like, fuck tv. I'm just doing stand up tv, stupid. And then two weeks later, I get this call, hey, this TV show you actually watch wants you to write for it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And, yeah, I had the first interview, and I was dating this girl out there, too. And I was like, I think I'm gonna get this job. Cause I don't ever get jobs. And they were just too nice to me.

[Caleb Heron]

How. What happened with the girl?

[Niles Abstinence]

We don't. We don't.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I did. I was just in New York, so. I just saw her, but we're not.

[Caleb Heron]

You traded her in for a writing job? That's what she.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's what she says.

[Caleb Heron]

That's crazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

She hates Little Dicky.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Queen. Honestly, respect. She's like, fuck that man in his career.

[Niles Abstinence]

She said he ruined her love life.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I love her. Bring her back. You need to quit running around.

[Niles Abstinence]

She actually thinks you're hilarious. Cause you remember we now.

[Caleb Heron]

I really love her.

[Niles Abstinence]

We taped on Comedy Central for the first on the same night. She was there at the show. She was like, caleb's so funny. I was like, shut up.

[Caleb Heron]

You need to get back together with this. She got a good head on her shoulders. Don't lose this woman.

[Niles Abstinence]

She cannot see this podcast.

[Caleb Heron]

Don't lose this woman.

[Niles Abstinence]

She cannot see this.

[Caleb Heron]

A good woman's worth a million writing jobs.

[Niles Abstinence]

We're not rolling at all. We are cutting all of this from the show.

[Caleb Heron]

I was willing to. I was willing to not be on her side. And then when I found out her taste. Her taste in comedy this is a good woman.

[Niles Abstinence]

She has good comedy taste, I'll give her that.

[Caleb Heron]

Wait, so you. Was that your first writing job ever?

[Niles Abstinence]

First TV writing job, yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

How was it for you?

[Niles Abstinence]

It was so fun. It was so fun because it's just like, so TV nerds know who this guy is, but, like, the general public won't. But Jeff Schaffer co created Dave with Lil Dicky. And so, like, if you know Jeff Schaefer, he ran Curb with Larry. Literally, Curb is just him and Larry writing the show back and forth. Like he told me during the pandemic, Larry would just FaceTime him and they would write the show. That's just crazy. And then, like, he created the league with his wife, which I think is like, one of the funniest shows ever, even if you don't like football. So, like, just getting to, like, learn from him every day was crazy. And you're just sitting at a table next to a guy, that, like, phone would start buzzing. You see Larry David pop up on the phone. You're like, where? Like, I'm here right now. This is great. Like this dude wrote on Seinfeld right out of high school. I mean, right out of college, you.

[Caleb Heron]

Know, I don't want to get a call from Larry David. Who knows what the hell he's going to be.

[Niles Abstinence]

I bet it's probably the craziest thing.

[Caleb Heron]

He's funny, but he'd be an annoying ass friend.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Just. Somebody cut me off. Larry, shut up.

[Niles Abstinence]

You could. Yeah. I could only imagine, like, Larry's probably one of those people. He calls you and you just go like, you know those people. You have to prepare to answer the phone.

[Caleb Heron]

I can tell you, if I was friends, Larry David, I guarantee you five times a phone call or more, I'd say that. Yeah, that's crazy, man. That's fucking crazy. Anyway, all right, I'm going to let you go.

[Niles Abstinence]

All right, man.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Well, hey, I hope you all figure that out. Yeah. People in the grocery store are. They're just. Everything's crazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, I hate when that chair's wobbly. I get it. I get it.

[Caleb Heron]

That's how.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, that dude is hilarious, man. He made a whole show of just like, rich white dude problems.

[Caleb Heron]

And it worked. And it worked, and it worked.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, because he's being truthful. That shit really ruins his day. Yeah, like, that's so funny to me. Like, that shit really ruins that guy's day when something's just a little off.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, he can never be wrong.

[Niles Abstinence]

He can't.

[Caleb Heron]

I think you Know, I think about Larry David in that show often because he. There's a lot of things they do on that show that like, you know, some dumbass right winger would be like, you could never get away with this today. Right, right. Shows currently in production. And it's because I think I joke about stuff all the time that you would think I wouldn't be allowed to joke about. It's like, people know the intent.

[Niles Abstinence]

The intent and the good writing and the performance.

[Caleb Heron]

Right, right.

[Niles Abstinence]

A lot of right wingers just say slurs and they're like, ha.

[Caleb Heron]

Who's your favorite right wing comic right now? Be honest. You had to pick one above all the rest.

[Niles Abstinence]

I had to pick one. Favorite right wing comic?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Favorite. Favorite of those, like, comics that are doing the like, oh, woke liberals, killed comedy. Who would you pick? Who's your fighter?

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, man, I don't. I don't know.

[Caleb Heron]

Taking Chappelle, probably. I'm taking Chappelle.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's a new right wing comedian. I'd take Chappelle, bro.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

That is crazy. He really does that.

[Caleb Heron]

He's really in that now.

[Niles Abstinence]

Damn.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, we lost one. We lost a good one. You know, you talk about those guys online a lot.

[Niles Abstinence]

All the time. Because it's just like, dude, they'll be like, they'll do this thing where they're like, you can't say anything and they're Saying it to 30,000 people.

[Caleb Heron]

Saying everything.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, what? What actually can't you say? You say everything. You're on a podcast every week that gets 20 million downloads. Like, what are we talking about?

[Caleb Heron]

And you've got, you've got compounds, you've got. You own so much property. They are making things.

[Niles Abstinence]

They are making so much money. And honestly, I get it. If you can trick millions of people to think you're still an underdog after making millions of dollars for saying funnies. Yeah, I gotta hand it to you.

[Caleb Heron]

That's Donald Trump's whole bag.

[Niles Abstinence]

Literally.

[Caleb Heron]

He's like, they're being mean to me. It's like, you're a very long time famous rich guy.

[Niles Abstinence]

He was in Home Alone.

[Caleb Heron]

That's the pinnacle of his power.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's been talked about in every rap song. I've just. You've had a great life, my dog. Like, what are you talking about?

[Caleb Heron]

He blew it because he could have died an icon.

[Niles Abstinence]

He really could have.

[Caleb Heron]

He could have just been a kind of racist, fucked up old rich guy that everyone was like, he's rich.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And they were. People were digging it.

[Niles Abstinence]

I. It blows my. Because it Just kind of came out of nowhere.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because it started with the Obama thing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

For, I guess, the birth certificate. Yeah, the birth certificate thing. And I was like, that. That's what we going to do.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And he became president.

[Caleb Heron]

It's also.

[Niles Abstinence]

It worked. I don't know. Like, it worked.

[Caleb Heron]

It's crazy that that's how far he had to go to lose liberals. Like, even the Central Park Five thing, liberals were still like, we'll put him on tv.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

You know.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

But then the birth certificate thing, they're like, okay, now it's too much. It's like, well, now he's president. You already lost.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's literally president. And the Simpsons told us it was going to happen.

[Caleb Heron]

Listen, are you a Simpsons fan?

[Niles Abstinence]

I see it every now and then. I have a friend that's like. He watches it, like, every day.

[Caleb Heron]

I see. I'm not one of those.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm not one of those.

[Caleb Heron]

I respect it, but I'm not one of those.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm more of a family guy.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's. See, that's. Yeah, yeah, let's go. That's me and you. We're family. That's our. I think that's our generation, right?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the. It's. It's the same premise, but it was made 10 years later, you know?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And it's like. Yeah, I don't really care about Homer, like, wanting to strangle his kid or whatever.

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

You know, he's like. He's like, barf. You know, I like that Peter. I like that Peter will literally shoot one of his kids.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

You know, it's amazing. He'll do anything.

[Niles Abstinence]

They'll. They would sell Megan to slavery if. If it would make a good episode. They would do that.

[Caleb Heron]

They would do that to Meg.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's.

[Caleb Heron]

And she gets disrespected a lot on the show.

[Niles Abstinence]

She does. I feel bad for her.

[Caleb Heron]

I do feel bad for me. Because she really does have a pure heart.

[Niles Abstinence]

She does.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, she does.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think Chris does, too, in a way.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. But let's go through the characters.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. Ranking the Family Guy characters by pure and not pure of heart.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

No, I think obviously, Stewie's evil. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Stewie and Quagmire are the worst ones.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. You think? Quagmire.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, my God, dude. Like, I went back to, like, an.

[Caleb Heron]

Early season just to, like, watch, and I was like.

[Niles Abstinence]

He had this thing where, like, it feels fucked up to even talk about it. Like, I feel like my career is gonna be over by bringing up What Quagmire did, but they wrote the shit and put it on television for my young ass. But it was like, a thing. A girl comes over to Quagmire's place and, like, a thing sprays her in the face and knocks her out and then bends her over.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I'm just like, niles, why would.

[Caleb Heron]

You bring that up? I know.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was watching it. Like, I need to change the channel. I need to put on, like, TBN or something.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, he's. He's definitely not pure of heart. No, that Quagmire.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just. The fact that they put that on tv, it's just good for them, I guess.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I mean, whatever they have to do, I guess.

[Niles Abstinence]

Whatever they have to do.

[Caleb Heron]

The show evolved. I'm glad. I am glad Family Guy got got away from the, like, the world will be mine Stewie thing. Like, the world revenge with the ray gun shit.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's fun, though.

[Caleb Heron]

I like that they made him more of, like, a gay little, like, they just make Stewie gay every other episode. It's funny.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's funny watching a little gay baby walk around with a dog.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

It scratches an itch for me.

[Caleb Heron]

What can I say? I love it.

[Niles Abstinence]

I love it.

[Caleb Heron]

I love little gay baby and his dog. Oh, my God, that's so funny. Wait, so, okay, so you write for Dave, and. Well, you made. So I messaged you a while back and said you keep talking about this short film you made. I need to see it. And you sent it to me, and it was so good.

[Niles Abstinence]

Thank you, man.

[Caleb Heron]

What's. Did you just have a premiere for that or something?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, we did a. We did a screening at the Bushwick Film Festival in New York.

[Caleb Heron]

For 98 Honda.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, for 98 Honda. And then this weekend, it'll be at the Montclair Film Festival, which I can't go to because my sister's getting married. I'm so happy.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, my God.

[Niles Abstinence]

For her.

[Caleb Heron]

Where'd she get married?

[Niles Abstinence]

Back in Mississippi.

[Caleb Heron]

Damn. She had to do it this weekend.

[Niles Abstinence]

So while I'm going to be on the big screen with I think a Nora is screening there. Denzel produced a movie that's in it. Cersei. Ronan's in a movie. Like, we're in this huge. It's like a top 50 festival in the world.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And we're in this shit. And I can't go because my sister's so happy.

[Caleb Heron]

Skip. Skip your sister's wedding.

[Niles Abstinence]

I try it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, skip your sister's wedding. I try it.

[Niles Abstinence]

I have not RSVP Yeah, I'm trying to keep my family on their toes.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Don't let them know flights book.

[Niles Abstinence]

I cancel flights all the time.

[Caleb Heron]

Absolutely.

[Niles Abstinence]

Look, I'm just like. I was like, give me a reason to fly to New Jersey on Friday. Yeah, I will do it.

[Caleb Heron]

One person have a bad attitude.

[Niles Abstinence]

I swear to God.

[Caleb Heron]

One person in the group text misbehave.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because I get there late Friday night. If one person gives me attitude in that family, I'm flying to New Jersey.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm going.

[Niles Abstinence]

Send me a picture.

[Caleb Heron]

I love that for you.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

So what you said she's getting married in Mississippi. Is she older?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, she's younger.

[Caleb Heron]

Younger.

[Niles Abstinence]

So I'm already preparing for all those. So when are you going to. When you get some money. How about that?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I hate when family be trying to do all that.

[Caleb Heron]

It doesn't. You should try being gay. They give up on it quickly.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, really?

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, yeah. They. Once you're gay, they're just like, oh, I guess he's never going to like it. Really? Everyone. The kids thing doesn't really come up that much. Except for my mom. She's. But she's built different. My mom is a superhero when it comes to being able to do mom shit. She'll find a way. But, yeah, the marriage stuff doesn't come up anymore. I think they just assume. I'm like, not really. Yeah, that's.

[Niles Abstinence]

My gay cousin got married and had a baby. So, like, now they're even. They're like, well, she did it. What's wrong with you?

[Caleb Heron]

Cut this. That's really funny, Niles. Cut that.

[Niles Abstinence]

We don't want Caleb Smile to see.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's crazy. Cut that. Thank you for saying that. Mark the note. Chance, we're cutting that. That's crazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

My bad.

[Caleb Heron]

That's crazy. It's just Niles going, my gay cousin had a baby. Cut to. So Niles. Damn. So lesbian. Yeah, lesbian with a wife and a baby.

[Niles Abstinence]

They're beautiful, man.

[Caleb Heron]

They're letting people do anything now.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. My lesbian cousin. The truth, bro. She a truck driver.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, my God. Butch.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Caleb Heron]

I mean, you have to.

[Niles Abstinence]

She was a Hooper in high school. She would dunk and shit. Now she. She a truck driver, got a beautiful wife and a baby.

[Caleb Heron]

Does she have a stud name?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I guess I don't want to say her name on here, but.

[Caleb Heron]

Right, right, right, right, right, right. But she kind of does.

[Niles Abstinence]

She has a nickname to her name that was like, oh, a dude could go by that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a stud name. I Love that for. Do they live in Mississippi?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I live in California.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, nice.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, they live out here.

[Caleb Heron]

Nice. Not la.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I got family in Inland Empire. That's where my dad's from.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, nice.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. So like the Pomona, Monrovia area, like it's about an hour outside of here.

[Caleb Heron]

There's a Sonic out there.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's why I go out.

[Caleb Heron]

There's a Sonic in Monrovia.

[Niles Abstinence]

You are for real.

[Caleb Heron]

You're real. You're real. You're real.

[Niles Abstinence]

Every time I go visit family, I hit a Sonic on the way back.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Or if I like. Because you have to go through the Ie to get to Vegas. So I always stop at a Sonic.

[Caleb Heron]

There's a Sonic in Monrovia?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yep.

[Caleb Heron]

It's a Lana Del Rey song. There's a Sonic in Monrovia. And guess what? It's not good. They're not doing quality at the Monrovia Sonic, in my opinion.

[Niles Abstinence]

Not anymore.

[Caleb Heron]

I hope they see this because I went, I drove all the way out there because I was like, I'm craving Sonic today. And I got be like that. It's like that sometimes you need that.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cherry limeade in your life.

[Caleb Heron]

You do. And guess what? The cherry wasn't right. The limeade wasn't right. The corn dog made me sick. No, it was bad. At the Monrovia Sonic, I got.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was. We came back from Vegas about a month ago and I stopped at the one in Fontana.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I was just like, I needed this.

[Caleb Heron]

It hit.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

God, there's something about a restaurant. Like, you like Waffle House.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right?

[Caleb Heron]

For me is like, you really understand the movie White Castle. When they road trip, it's like, yeah, I would do that with White Castle. No.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I hope we don't get a Waffle House out here.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

The people in this godless city don't deserve one.

[Caleb Heron]

I think that's right. I think that's right. They would abuse.

[Niles Abstinence]

They would abuse it. It would not be right. And I don't think we got the people strong enough to work there.

[Caleb Heron]

No. The combat skills.

[Niles Abstinence]

Who, you know out here gonna break up fights at three in the morning.

[Caleb Heron]

Right between seven people.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's what I'm saying.

[Caleb Heron]

All of whom don't know each other.

[Niles Abstinence]

No. It looks like fucking. What's. What's the game? Super Smash Bros.

[Caleb Heron]

Uh huh.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's crazy. Choose your fighter.

[Caleb Heron]

People are throwing fucking banana peels and shit.

[Niles Abstinence]

I've seen somebody get a cigarette to the eye in a Waffle House.

[Caleb Heron]

That doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I know. Like, when it hit his eye, he was like, this nigga, now you're supposed to be smoking in here. Like, how did that.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you know what my Waffle House secret is?

[Niles Abstinence]

What's that?

[Caleb Heron]

Their grilled chicken sandwich. Yup. And that face is exactly why you're not on. You're not onto the grilled chicken sandwich because people, there's a culture of fear around trying the grilled chicken sandwich at Waffle House. Guess what? It's fucking amazing. What? The Niles. The grilled chicken sandwich at Waffle House.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm gonna go.

[Caleb Heron]

People are. You think, oh, I want my chocolate chip waffles, I want my country ham. I want my. My Walmart hash brown smothered and whatever. All great. Get a grilled chicken sandwich. Go with a friend. Okay, Cut that grilled chicken sandwich down the middle.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay?

[Caleb Heron]

Each of you take the first bite at the same time and see if your eyes don't light up.

[Niles Abstinence]

And it's fire.

[Caleb Heron]

It's amazing.

[Niles Abstinence]

All right, I'm gonna go this weekend.

[Caleb Heron]

Have y'all had the grilled chicken sandwich from Waffle House? You know, Chance, it's good. Yeah, it's really good.

[Niles Abstinence]

All right, I'm gonna go.

[Caleb Heron]

Where are you gonna go? Oh, you're gonna go speak. If everyone behaves.

[Niles Abstinence]

Everybody behaves.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I will go to that film festival.

[Caleb Heron]

I will go. If everyone's on their best behavior, I'm going to the wedding. Let me get not on a tangent about Waffle House chicken sandwiches. Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from Uncommon Goods. If you haven't finished your holiday shopping yet, don't panic, you guys, for real. We've got a secret source for incredible original gifts and that's Uncommon Goods. They've got unique hand picked gifts for everyone on your list, all in one spot. Gifts that spark, joy, wonder, delight, and you guessed it, that it's exactly what I wanted feeling. Somehow they know exactly the perfect gift for every single person you know. So skip the gifts that scream last minute and find something truly [e-mail] Some of my favorite things from their site are their cloud slippers, available in a bunch of different fun colors. And their wide selection of candles where I'm sure you'll find just the right scent for whoever you're shopping for. Whenever you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists. Ever heard of it? And small independent businesses. Hello. Many of their hand crafted products are made in small batches. So shop now before they sell out this holiday season. And as always, to get 15 off. Your next gift go to uncommongoods.com so true. That's uncommongoods.com so True. For 15 off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. You write for Dave?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And then what's going on with you these days? What are you up to? Stand up. Always.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, stand up. Always. I'm trying to figure it out, man. Because, like, I. I don't know. I'm trying to figure out, like, I gotta sell some tickets, bro. This is trash if you don't sell tickets. Like, I can sell like 100 tickets in like a one nighter in a city if I haven't been there in a while.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

But like, you know, I'm trying to figure out like, what my thing is to get me to the point where I could do a theater because, like, I'm on my third hour now. I want people to actually, like, see it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, so, yeah, I'm trying to figure out what to do with that. But then also I'm developing a lot of like, my own stuff, like the, like with the film. We're trying to find some partners to try to make that into a feature. And I have this TV show I'm developing and what a like, nice sized producer. So I'm excited about that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Where you guys? Have you written the scripts and stuff.

[Niles Abstinence]

Already for the show?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's written. I'm hyped. We're trying to get this really good director that I like attached to it. So, like, you know, fingers crossed. But I have high hopes for it. I'm excited.

[Caleb Heron]

Nice. Hell yeah. So there's the show. Can you, can you say what's about or.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, I mean, it's a. It's a show set in Mississippi.

[Caleb Heron]

Nice.

[Niles Abstinence]

And so, yeah, I'm. If it all works out, like I talked to Cam Patterson about it, I want him to play my cousin. Yeah. I just think we'd be super funny.

[Caleb Heron]

He's so funny.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's ridiculous. We both from the south and stupid. So, you know, so, yeah, it'd be. It'd be a show about me and my cousin in Mississippi. And so, yeah, it would be really a really good time and I think it'd be fun. I want to make like. And it's always Sunny type show. Yeah, it's like that was like my show growing up. It's always Sunny Workaholics, Broad City. Like, I want to make something in that vein.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Like a hangout buddy comedy.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly. So. So, yeah, so we working on that. It's crazy how, like, when you find a producer that actually likes black people, things are kind of easy.

[Caleb Heron]

Because, like.

[Niles Abstinence]

I've been trying to make this show for, like, four years, and it's, like, no shade to other people I was working with, but I just don't think they knew any black person that wasn't a millionaire already. Yeah, like, they. Like, if you meet your first black person in Hollywood and they're more famous than you, you don't know. You don't. You know what I'm saying? And so it's just like, I feel like they had good intentions and they liked the idea of the show, but they just didn't really get the vibe. Whereas, like, this producer is a black woman who's worked in Hollywood for a while, and she's been on some dope TV shows, made a TV show of her own, that type of thing. So she got it like that. Read the pilot, and she didn't give me any notes, and I love that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Past producers were white people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard. I mean, anything that's outside of. I think so many white people are just scared to even, like. Just scared to even talk about black people.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. They whisper.

[Caleb Heron]

They're like. They're like. And what would happen in your community? You know, it's like. Yeah, it's like a fear that's like. Actually, that feels so racist. It feels so weird.

[Niles Abstinence]

Why are you whispering Beyonce's name?

[Caleb Heron]

She's not gonna.

[Niles Abstinence]

She's not gonna hear you. But, like, when white people talk about. They're like, beyonce.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm like, dude, calm down. But that's how I was. I felt like they were like. Either they were like, walking on eggshells or they just straight up just didn't get it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And so that was, like, the problem. But now it is dope to have somebody to, like, sees it for what it is, knows exactly what I'm trying to do. And it's like, all right, let's make it happen now.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So I'm really hype about it, and I think I'm in the place now that, like, I pitched my first TV show five years ago, and I had, like, a huge star as the EP of it. And so I'm thinking, like, oh, shit, I'm Lena Dunham. I'm about to go crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm 25.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm about to sell a TV show. And we pitched to, like, seven different networks. They all loved it, and they didn't.

[Caleb Heron]

Know they always love it.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, they always love it. And nobody bought it. And it really, like, it tore me up, man. Like, I didn't write anything for, like, a year. Like, I couldn't. Like, it just. It didn't make any sense to me. I was like. But everybody loved it. What was the problem? And so. But I think now I have, like, this, like, maturity of, like, if it doesn't work out, then, oh, well, like, I got my other stuff. I'm doing. Like, I do think it'll work out, but, like, if it doesn't, like, I'm fine, you know?

[Caleb Heron]

It also is unfortunately never fun to, like, actually sit with this when it's you or when it's us. But it's like, it is rarely personal. It is rare. It's like, I was just talking to a casting director about this yesterday, where it's like, we were just having a general meeting and, like, you know, it just is, like, yeah, there's. There's 800 talented people who could do this.

[Niles Abstinence]

There is.

[Caleb Heron]

She was. You know, she was like. It was really funny because she. She does casting for, like, a huge network, and she was like. She was like, yeah. I mean, I've had, like, really talented people get turned down because they reminded a producer of their ex. Like, it just. You just don't.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's so true. And, like, I. It took me a long time. I probably didn't really understand that till, like, a year and a half ago when I was producing and casting, like, my short. And, like, I'm having to get all these moving parts. So, like, I put up about a third of the money, and then we crowdfunded for the rest. And, like, there's all these people. You got to make happy that you go through a casting company and cast these people and you wrote roles for certain people and that type of thing. And it's just kind of like, you can't make everyone happy.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And there's some people that I. I would have liked to have in the film, but it just didn't work out. It's not. I don't think they're not good. It just. It didn't work out for that. And we were shooting it in Massachusetts, so maybe it would take a lot of money to get this person out there. So I need to cast out of New York for this instead of la. So it's just like, I was like, oh, okay. These people don't hate me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Just. It just. Sometimes it just doesn't work out well.

[Caleb Heron]

And this. That's the thing is Being on the other side of it. Like, you have. And like, I have a couple times. You're looking at a matrix of 500 different things that need to happen.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

And this character. Yeah. My friend, might be great for it in one way.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

But if we could get this thing to. If we could get this character to achieve three things that we need, like, we need someone a little older, we need someone whatever, then like. Yeah, it's just. It really isn't personal. It's like I'm looking at a matrix of 500 things that need to happen. And you might just not slot in anywhere perfectly. It's not that you're not great. It's just like, I don't. It's not. We don't have something for you.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. It just. It just. You take so much rejection in this business that, like, after a while it's just like, well, God damn, is anything gonna work? But I think you just. Eventually everybody just builds up a callous to it. Like now there's some stuff like, I'll get an audition. It's like, I'm not gonna get that. I just don't do it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I say no. I say no all the time.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't audition for a lot of stuff. Cause I'm a writer snob. Like, I'm a writing snob. And so I'll read the scene and like, this is garbage.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, so much of what gets made is bad.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

I'll read some of these scripts that I get sent and same thing. I'll pass on. I'll pass on things all the time without auditioning. Even though I want to be acting. Because I'm like, well, this script is horrible.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

If this got made, I wouldn't want to actually be in this.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I think a lot of comics who are actors think like that. I feel like actors don't really think.

[Caleb Heron]

Like that a lot don't. I mean, because it's a privilege to think like that. Like, I mean, if your only job is acting and you need to pay the bills, sure. You'll go do.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Insert name of show. I almost said.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think we almost said the same one.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

But yeah, it's just like, I was thinking about that other day. I think actors are really bad at picking scripts. Or it's just like, they just gotta do what they gotta do.

[Caleb Heron]

Dude, I feel bad for anybody right now who only does one thing.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

If you're only an actor right now or only a writer, I don't know how you're making A living.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, there's so few things going on. I'm like, the only thing that has helped me to get by the last several years and, like, actually do well is that I do seven things.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

So I can be over here. I can be over here.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, that's true.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't think that's fair. I don't think it should have. I don't think people should have to do seven things.

[Niles Abstinence]

You definitely should.

[Caleb Heron]

You didn't used to have to do that. Staff writers on Modern Family used to own multiple houses, man.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, like, that was one of the things I hated the most being on Dave was them talking about all the money they used to make back in the day. Because, like, if they're. They're at the. Like, if you're an EP level, writer, showrunner, you're making a lot of money.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

But they were telling me, like, the money they would make is, like, story editors and staff writers, like, oh, like a lot of. Because a lot of the writers on Dave, they. They worked on New Girl and It's Always Sunny and they were like, oh, yeah, we were like story editors. We were, like, buying houses.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was like, okay, well, fuck you. First off.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. 22 episodes plus a script or two. And those extra scripts are what, I. 30, 40,000 back then, I'm imagining. So you got your script fees on top of your weekly fees. You're in a union, so you got all your health. Like, yeah, it used to be very sweet.

[Niles Abstinence]

I got an email in the. I got an email the other day saying, like, I qualified for, like, motion picture health care.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I was like, this should not be something I should be excited about.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's terrible. I qualified for health insurance in the field I work in. Well, you see people all the time now on Twitter being like, hey, can someone just put me as, like, a two line speaking partner pilot. I have a kid, and we're about to lose our health insurance.

[Niles Abstinence]

Let me whisper something truly.

[Caleb Heron]

Let me whisper.

[Niles Abstinence]

Beyonce, I just need health care.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Heron]

No, it's nuts.

[Niles Abstinence]

But I'm very lucky to have a job right now. Like, I do do realize that anybody.

[Caleb Heron]

Some people with the worst jobs in entertainment are telling me, I'm grateful. I'm going, you're grateful. I've seen what you do. It's not good. It's. It's really tough. You know, people who are working really, really hard at jobs that, like, they would have been trying to move on from by now are like, I'm just Fucking great. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

There's some money coming because, like, full stop. Like, I was a staff writer on Dave. And so with that credit and with what my episode, did you know it was a Hollywood Reporter Top 10 episode of TV that year? Just saying. Just saying. I shouldn't have had to be a staff writer again, but it was just like, this was the job that was offered. There's, like, no other comedy writing jobs right now, so what was I supposed to say? Well, I'm not supposed to be a staff writer, so I'm not taking this. So I took the job.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

So it is what it is. But I definitely would like to be a level up.

[Caleb Heron]

It would be great. I love to level up. It's one of my favorite things.

[Niles Abstinence]

More.

[Caleb Heron]

Buddy, we have a voicemail from our listeners.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, shit.

[Caleb Heron]

Don't mind.

[Niles Abstinence]

Do I need to put these on you?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Or hold it up if you don't want to put them all the way on. It'll help you hear it. Okay, Casey, what do we have?

[Niles Abstinence]

Hey, diva. I was just wondering which company you want to see go bankrupt so Spirit Halloween can move in and give their building some real purpose. I feel like I betray my fellow Caucasian queers when I say I would like Trader Joe's to be a host for Spirit Halloween to reside in. Just feel like that's the right move. Thank you so much. And I love you, and I love your podcast, and I love everything that you do, similar to a cult follower. All right, love you.

[Caleb Heron]

The girls are long winded. Yeah, the girls are long winded. But the question ultimately is, what? What company do you want to see go bankrupt first?

[Niles Abstinence]

Ooh.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, I got mine.

[Niles Abstinence]

I got mine, too. You go ahead, Chase Bank. Fuck you, bitch ass nigga. All them fucking autumn fees we broke. How you charging me for not having money?

[Caleb Heron]

What else? Dude, tell them.

[Niles Abstinence]

And then a lot of people don't know this. I'm about to air y'all out. JP Morgan Chase. The reason how they got their money, they did slave insurance. Tell them they used to give slave masters insurance. Like they sold insurance to slave masters on their slaves, and that's how they got the money to start their bank.

[Caleb Heron]

Fuck, Chase. What'd they do to you? I know they did something. This isn't just Bro, you overdrafted?

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah. All the time.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And they're hitting you with a fee every time.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's crazy. $35 for being broke is crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

It is crazy. Overdraft fees are psychotic.

[Niles Abstinence]

So you're gonna charge me?

[Caleb Heron]

Cause I don't have money. I don't. I can't pay you. I don't have money.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. I just feel like if you can't beat me in a fight, you can't do that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I've seen the people that are tellers of Chase.

[Caleb Heron]

Y'all can't fight well, they can't even work. Don't get me started. I went. I went into Chase the other day. I'm sorry. I have had it. I've also had it with Chase. It's not my pick, but I go in there, there's seven people working. They direct me to a self serve kiosk. Pardon? Pardon the self serve kiosk. I'm like, this is crazy. I want to have a little conversation.

[Niles Abstinence]

And they don't even have a lollipops no more.

[Caleb Heron]

No. It's fucked up. It's fucked up.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. So fuck you.

[Caleb Heron]

Fuck Chase. I'm with it. I do. I think I do a lot of banking with you all, though. Thank you for your service, for holding my money for me. My pick. Elon Musk's whole deal.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I'd like to see him. I'd like to see him. Man, I want to see him lose.

[Niles Abstinence]

I would love to see Tesla go bankrupt.

[Caleb Heron]

I mean, he's already lost because he's like an irredeemable fucking dork. Every time he jumps, he loses a little more. But like, I do want to see him broke. There's one person in the whole country that I want to see unhoused, and it's Elon Musk.

[Niles Abstinence]

It would be beautiful. No, him homeless would be great.

[Caleb Heron]

I'd like to see him as one of my unhoused neighbors for sure. And I'd like to. I'd like to make sure that he really feels it. I do. I. Yeah, the fight. That guy, his little jumps are so gay too. Quit with the little jumps. Quit with the little jumps. Why is he jumping? Why is he jumping?

[Niles Abstinence]

I hate Elon Musk, bro.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't. Can anyone tell me what's with the little jumps? Autism. I've met autistic people that don't jump. I've met some cool autistic people and they're not acting that.

[Niles Abstinence]

I like that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Bombas makes the most comfortable socks, underwear, and T shirts.

[Caleb Heron]

Warning, Bombas are so absurdly comfortable, you may throw out all your other clothes.

[Niles Abstinence]

Sorry, do we legally have to say that?

[Caleb Heron]

No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas. They do feel that good. And they do good too. One item purchased Equals one item donated. To feel good and do good, go to bombas.com wondry and use code wondry for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S. And use code wondry at checkout.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know that feeling when your favorite brand really gets you. Deliver that feeling to your customers every time. Memorable moments like these are key to building your business and your brand. Klaviyo turns your customer data into real time connections across AI powered email, SMS and more. Making every moment count so you can.

[Caleb Heron]

Continue to build smarter, more meaningful relationships with your customers. Build smarter digital relationships with your customers.

[Niles Abstinence]

And make every moment count with Klaviyo. Learn [e-mail] BFCM a company to go bankrupt.

[Caleb Heron]

Chase is a good one. Elon Musk's whole deal is a good one. I wonder if I have any other companies I hate. Probably most of them, I guess, like BP Oil.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Abercrombie and Fitch. Just because of what they did to me in middle school.

[Niles Abstinence]

What they do?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, everyone was wearing it and they didn't have my size. So I got, I have beef with Abercrombie and Fitch and Hollister.

[Niles Abstinence]

I never wore those.

[Caleb Heron]

You didn't see? I didn't either. Well, okay, so it was a double whammy because not only was I too fat to wear them, but were we to find the money? We didn't have the money. It was like we, we were too poor and I was too fat.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's funny. Yeah. I was wearing like South Pole.

[Caleb Heron]

Uh huh.

[Niles Abstinence]

Fubu.

[Caleb Heron]

And were those the cool brands at your school?

[Niles Abstinence]

There's black people was wearing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the cool brands at your school, like was it, did you go to a mostly black school?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I went. So I went to a private school.

[Caleb Heron]

Really?

[Niles Abstinence]

In Mississippi? Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

I didn't even know that they had private schools in Mississippi.

[Niles Abstinence]

So there's my chance to explain this.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So when I say private people, when I say private school, people think I like went to the school Will and Carlton went to.

[Caleb Heron]

Right? Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

No. So private schools in Mississippi are very different. We have two very good private schools in Mississippi, Jackson Prep and Jackson Academy. Yeah. Every other private school in Mississippi is what you would call a segregation school where if you look at the estate, when they were established, they were all established from the year like 1959 to 1966. And eventually basically they were created so white families didn't have to put their kids in schools.

[Caleb Heron]

Were black kids 100.

[Niles Abstinence]

So they're like private. So they're private Schools, because they're private, but they cost, like, $200 to go to.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

So, like, you have private schools in Mississippi where they, like, meet in a barn, but it's a private school.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And so, like, the private school education isn't better. It's not like we were getting better food or, like, had all this, like. I didn't have a Spanish teacher in ninth grade, Caleb.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You don't know what he did in ninth grade for Spanish. We sat in a computer lab, and my football coach sat in the desk behind us, and we did Rosetta Stone. I was in there clicking on shapes like I was at Ellis island, bro.

[Caleb Heron]

Not that they always have the football coach doing this shit. Yeah. Cause he.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cause he don't care. He's just like, yeah, this isn't bad.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

But, like, I did not have a Spanish teacher in high school, and I went to a private school.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. So did you go to one of the two good ones?

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

No. You went to one of the.

[Niles Abstinence]

I wanted to. So both schools. So I was a track athlete and a football player, and so, like, both schools wanted me to come run track and play football there. Yeah. And my parents were just, like. Nah.

[Caleb Heron]

Obsessed with your parents being like.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, no.

[Caleb Heron]

He's chilling where he's at, actually. Thank you. What position you play? Football?

[Niles Abstinence]

I was a db.

[Caleb Heron]

Whoa. Okay. I didn't know that there were private schools in Mississippi, because there were none where I grew up.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, we did not have. That's the thing I don't understand about, like, charters and stuff, where I'm like, yeah, we just all go to school wherever we live.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

Where I'm from.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

So I don't understand most.

[Niles Abstinence]

Most like, rural places. That's how it is. But Mississippi is a different breed.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Mississippi is a different breed.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

You love Mississippi, though.

[Niles Abstinence]

I love how funny it made me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because as a state, it just doesn't make sense. Like, we abolished slavery in 2012.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, just things about Mississippi are just, like, the craziest. Right.

[Caleb Heron]

But would have preferred to see it happen sooner.

[Niles Abstinence]

Would have been nice, you know? But 2012, hey, that was 12 years ago.

[Caleb Heron]

What happened in 2012 that they were like, you know what?

[Niles Abstinence]

Obama killed Osama bin Laden.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, really?

[Niles Abstinence]

And I think people in Mississippi were like, yeah, we should free him.

[Caleb Heron]

People were like, you know what? Fuck it. It if he's doing all crazy. Yeah. That's so funny. So Mississippi. And then you. You grew up in Mississippi. You moved to New York. York.

[Niles Abstinence]

I moved here when I was 20.

[Caleb Heron]

You moved here first.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And then you moved to New York. What was that move from LA to New York? Like, were you just fed up?

[Niles Abstinence]

I was just fed up, yeah. Because I was like, I had all these like movies written and these pilots written and it just like nothing was happening. I had, I probably in 2020 and 2020 because I got read by CAA in 2021. So like 2020, 2021. I probably had like over 30 staffing interviews with all these TV shows. Any show that calls itself a comedy, I have interviewed for that show to write for. And I was just kind of like, well, if none of these shows want to hire me, that was like every show.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Then what's the point of doing this shit? And so I just moved. I just like I'm moving to New York and I'm just going to do stand up full time.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And then I got a call and.

[Caleb Heron]

Then immediately got the thing. That's how it works. As soon as you give it up.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. That's why I think I'll sell the show. Because I lowkey don't want it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because I kind of like the freedom of like just doing stuff.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, the nice thing about stand up is it's like the one thing they can't take from us.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

So I can stand up in a room with a microphone and make people laugh. You guys cannot. No. Industry calibration or pivot or whatever the fuck they're calling it every time they blow up the industry for some rich guy. You can't. There's nothing you can do about what I do.

[Niles Abstinence]

Nothing. It's dope. It's like, especially once you get like a little audience, man, if you're good at this shit, you can really do this forever.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So yeah, it's just like I am blessed to be a stand up comic. So I do know that like once you do a TV show, it takes so much away from that, but, well.

[Caleb Heron]

It'S a full time job. Yeah, yeah. Freedom. I do think freedom is the biggest thing I think about all the time. And like in terms of what I want in my life long term, the only thing I'm certain of is I would like to be left alone. Anytime that I ask.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh my God. You understand me?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I'm like, just don't. If I, if I don't want to be taught, if I don't want to work for a couple months, if I don't want to be talked to, that's the only thing that's important to me is that I get to Go. I'm. No, I'm not doing that.

[Niles Abstinence]

A lot of people don't get that.

[Caleb Heron]

Which is crazy to me, because I.

[Niles Abstinence]

Think I'm just like. Doesn't everybody want that?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Isn't that the number one thing?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I don't get. I love being left alone.

[Caleb Heron]

I do.

[Niles Abstinence]

I wanna be this male loneliness epidemic thing that. Have you seen this? Every time Internet.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

One, I don't think it's real. I just think y'all don't get no hoes. But, yes, secondly, male loneliness, I love. Leave me alone, please.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I have a PlayStation, a nice condo. I got postmates. I don't wanna see none of y'all.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, it's great. I think you are maybe what they're talk about, though, really. You're sitting in the house playing video games. But is anyone coming over? Anything?

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

Niles, how you doing, brother?

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm doing great. Like, I have friends, and when I want to see them, I go see them. I love just, like, being by myself for, like, three days straight. And then somebody call me, like, yo, where you been at? I'm like, at home in the house.

[Caleb Heron]

At home where I pay rent.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

Next question.

[Niles Abstinence]

This expensive. Let me spend time with this thing I spend so much money on.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

My. My room.

[Caleb Heron]

What do you think? What do you think? Okay, so. But I agree with you. Male loneliness epidemic. I have no. These guys who complain about the male loneliness epidemic. I'm like, well, it's their fault. Yeah, it's your fault. And also, oh, God, how pathetic could you be?

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

Going online and being like, I'm a Dimitri.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm by myself. Holy.

[Caleb Heron]

It's like, oh, God.

[Niles Abstinence]

Those would be, like, the most homophobic dude.

[Caleb Heron]

That's the thing is, I'm like, you're lonely because you suck.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. You mean you listen to a bunch of Andrew Tate. You read the women. Because I told somebody the other day, I was like, how do you expect to do all these things women don't like and be like, why are women around me? What's going on? And then the complaint about it online is the funniest shit.

[Caleb Heron]

I saw a straight guy tweet the other day. I was on Twitter for my weekly punishment, and I saw a straight guy tweet the other day. Like, fellas, the best advice I can give you in dating so you don't end up with, like, a woke scold woman is on the first date. Just drop the R word a couple times and see how she responds. Men are acting like this, what?

[Niles Abstinence]

And I guarantee you he was like, 36.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And he's a victim of the male loneliness epidemic as well. It's like, what are you talking about?

[Niles Abstinence]

Just drop the R word a little bit.

[Caleb Heron]

Now, of course, that's kind of funny.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, it's hilarious. But to suggest that as a dating tip.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And then be like, why am I lone? Totally.

[Caleb Heron]

It's kind of funny to be like, yeah, on first dates, I do the R word litmus test. Yes, of course that's kind of funny in theory, but these are the same guys that'll be like, the universe has conspired against me to make sure that I'm lonely. It's like. Or you're a fucking loser.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, man. Look, and sometimes you also. You gotta have standards. I remember I was over a couple years ago, I was at this girl's crib. We were in her room and some Baby Keem was playing, and she was like, what is this? This is terrible. And I left. She had her clothes off and everything.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, you know, you're not disrespecting Kendrick Lamar's nephew like that. Yeah youh gotta have morals and principles you stand on.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And that's your big one.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You don't disrespect Baby came around me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And I never would.

[Niles Abstinence]

Thank you.

[Caleb Heron]

You know that about me.

[Niles Abstinence]

Thank you.

[Caleb Heron]

I do. There is something going on in the culture. Like, losers used to be embarrassed.

[Niles Abstinence]

Well, there's no shame anymore.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Nobody's scared to be a loser anymore.

[Niles Abstinence]

Shame can get you paid.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, you did.

[Niles Abstinence]

You couldn't go viral for being a loser 20 years ago. Yeah, you, like. You were like, on that one episode of American Idol where they show all the bad people.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And then that was it.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you see the. Do you see the girl who. Let's probably pretty dated by the time this episode comes out, but I'll say it anyway. Did you see the girl whose boyfriend asked her to move back to Texas with him?

[Niles Abstinence]

You see that?

[Caleb Heron]

You guys see that?

[Niles Abstinence]

Where do they live currently?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, there's this girl. She was. She. She made this whole, like, tick tock video that was like her, like, sobbing into the camera and being. Which I. I have quite feelings about that.

[Niles Abstinence]

I hate when people cry on.

[Caleb Heron]

I do too. And you know what I recorded. I recorded a video the other day. I was trying to make a video for this abortion rights thing in Missouri.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

And I got. I got worked up enough that I started crying, tears coming out of my eyes. And you know what I said? This is really powerful. People would really like this. I'm not fucking posting it. I'm not posting it. You know, so there are like. There are like three videos of me in my phone crying about abortion rights. And I said, no posts. No, no posts.

[Niles Abstinence]

We don't need that.

[Caleb Heron]

The static images will have to do.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's almost as bad as what's her name? Yoga Dot singing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. Yes. It's manipulative, too. I'm like, I don't want you to care about this because I got worked up and mad at Republicans and started attack.

[Niles Abstinence]

Already care about this. I'm just reminding you to go take action.

[Caleb Heron]

Go vote. Yeah, but she was posting. She was like. She was like, oh, my boyfriend, we lived in la. And he went. He said he wanted to. Yeah, let's play it. I guess we have it. Do we need headphones?

[Niles Abstinence]

I've definitely. So I see thumbnails all the time. And whenever I see, I just. I'm like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not looking at this.

[Caleb Heron]

So you live in LA with your boyfriend. Everything's going amazing. They're doing pottery. That's how, you know. He says, babe, I want to move back to Texas to be closer to my dad. Now, mind you, he says, I want to move back to be closer to my dad. So she gives up her career, including her improv troop.

[Niles Abstinence]

She probably. She probably wasn't good.

[Caleb Heron]

Look, giving up your improv troop is not a sacrifice you're making for him.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, you wanted to grow up.

[Caleb Heron]

That's called growing up. Right? That's someone who did improv well into his 20s. The future you want. She wants to be old with him. So, yeah, basically we don't have to watch the whole thing, but basically what happens is.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, no, we're watching the whole thing. I need to see all of this.

[Caleb Heron]

Yep. So she's so happy that they're doing texts, he goes on family vacation without her. Right. But yes, that we have something in common. We're incompatible, he says. We have nothing in common. We're incompatible, he says to her in a note, she says, oh, no. Now she's crying again on camera.

[Niles Abstinence]

This is the beginning of a Kristen Wiig movie. I just can't remember which one.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Now, mind you, he does belong in prison.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. This is terrible.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm not team him.

[Niles Abstinence]

Why would you put this woman through that?

[Caleb Heron]

And then she shows the pottery picture again to be like, what do you mean? We have nothing in common? And she's crying on camera again. Every time she cried for, like two months, she got that camera out.

[Niles Abstinence]

This is so mean. You know how hard it is to get an apartment in la.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So if she wants to come back here, she has to.

[Caleb Heron]

She has to. Now she's in Florida living with her mom. She's crying with her mom. So, yeah, this is the. This. What do you think of this? What do you think of that?

[Niles Abstinence]

I mean, look, the patriarchy won.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. He's a bad guy.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's a terrible person.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

He should go to jail for that for, like, a little bit.

[Caleb Heron]

That's. We should have a type of jail. I've been saying this. We should have a type of jail. That's cool.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

But it's like you lose a couple creature comforts.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's like time out.

[Caleb Heron]

It's literally time out. And we should have a committee of your peers that say, yeah, man, you can't be in the streets. Exactly. Like a month.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, because I feel like a lot of dudes, a lot of times you need somebody, you actually care about their opinion to tell you you fucking up.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And, like, he needs some people to be like, bro, come on. Come on.

[Caleb Heron]

Where's the. Also, where's the dad in all this? He goes on vacation with the dad who we moved back to be close to, and his dad was like, hand her a note.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's the other thing. Like, you couldn't have a real conversation with her.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, that's the thing. Loser. Losers are winning right now. Cowardice is big.

[Niles Abstinence]

That was very cowardice.

[Caleb Heron]

It's cowardly.

[Niles Abstinence]

You blew up her entire life, and now she in Florida with her mom. Yeah. No, he need to go to real prison.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. Forget our little jail idea.

[Niles Abstinence]

Anything could happen to her out there in Florida.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I think I would say to her.

[Niles Abstinence]

A lot of myth.

[Caleb Heron]

Don't do meth in Florida. That'd be my number one thing. Number two, less crying. Less crying videos in the video.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. You gotta stop that, baby girl.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. It's not for you. It's not projecting what we wanted to project. And for him, I would say, yeah, for sure. A little bit of prison.

[Niles Abstinence]

A little bit of prison.

[Caleb Heron]

Just a little bit of prison.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like six months.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I thought the other day while I was watching the Purge.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay. This about. This about to get deep.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I was watching the Purge, and I was like. It would be like, you know how if you get. If the. If the government passes something you don't like, and you get like, 400,000 signatures.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

We can send it to a vote, like a ballot item about different policies. If there's Someone who really wronged you. Like, someone who really, like you think, like Bernie Madoff, for example. There should be like, if I can gain enough signatures, I get to kill that guy. You know what I mean? Like, if I can get enough people to agree that I should kill that guy, I should get a chance to kill that guy.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, shit.

[Caleb Heron]

Only if they do something egregious like Bernie Madoff, like stealing money from seniors.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

You know, something like that. That's like, come on. But not the death penalty. The government shouldn't get to do it.

[Niles Abstinence]

The government shouldn't get to do it.

[Caleb Heron]

I know Chance is shaking his head like, I'm talking about the death penalty, not the death penalty.

[Niles Abstinence]

That could get real shaky.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because the way white women came for John Mulaney online last year, they would have got his ass.

[Caleb Heron]

They would have got signatures.

[Niles Abstinence]

They would have got enough signatures.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And then it would just get to a point where white ladies could just kill whoever they want.

[Caleb Heron]

They're going to kill me because white lady.

[Niles Abstinence]

That was really good.

[Caleb Heron]

White women are gathering the signatures. That one wasn't as good. I lost the. I lost the juice on the second one.

[Niles Abstinence]

That was good.

[Caleb Heron]

I would hate if he got killed.

[Niles Abstinence]

I know. He makes me happy.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, he's a good stand up. Yeah, he gives a. About writing a joke.

[Niles Abstinence]

That dude. He. I was telling somebody the other day of the famous comedians that sell Arena. I saw him do an arena on Long island during the New York festival a couple years ago, and it was the set he did on his most recent Netflix special. And I was just blown away because it's just like most comedians that get to that level, they just. They phoned it in by then.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So it's like to see him, like, really doing punch lines and setups and jokes and really being vulnerable, which I think a lot of famous comedians don't do anymore. Yeah, like, he really was like on this last one. He's really kind of on some Richard Pryor shit. Like when Richard Pryor was talking about getting burned up when he was doing crack and everything. Like, John Mulaney really talking about rehab and how he failed and like, ordering the Outback. Like, that was great.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Also realist. Fuck ordering Outback. Come on. That's how I would be if I.

[Niles Abstinence]

Was in a facility.

[Caleb Heron]

I would.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'd be like, I should at least get some Outback.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you know the closest I came to something like this? When I shot Jurassic when we filmed Jurassic World in 2020 in Covid London.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. We're outside of London. We're on a fucking farm ground. Like it's all of us. Everyone has to stay in the same.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cause we're all in a bubble.

[Caleb Heron]

We're in the bubble. And that's what they made that movie. They made that movie about Jurassic. So we're all there. I'm talking like, Jeff Goldblum's kids are in the room next to me up early being loud. And that's all I'm saying. No shade to Jeff. But you're kids are up early being loud.

[Niles Abstinence]

You felt that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, Your kids are up early being loud. That's all. We're all on the same property. And for. For two weeks. That was the quarantine period at the time, for two. I get to London for two weeks, they put me in that room. They. The only people I see in a day are I. We can only order. They come and COVID test you every day. You can only order food from the hotel. So the little five. And by the way, this is not a hotel with like a big menu. This is what I was about to say.

[Niles Abstinence]

They got chicken tenders.

[Caleb Heron]

Not even. This was a. This was a fancy place. So it was like chicken picotta, white fish. It was like a small menu.

[Niles Abstinence]

So probably when you find the one thing you like, you probably just keep eating that.

[Caleb Heron]

I did, yeah. It was like a. It was like a. A fish and a fish and like steamed vegetables thing. That turned out to be the best for me. Had to order it every day. And I was so I was during the day just quarantining, not allowed to go on a walk. I think eventually after a week, you got to go on a walk by yourself at a certain place, and then.

[Niles Abstinence]

You walked in a circle.

[Caleb Heron]

You could only walk in a certain area on the property. It was like the COVID walking area.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, and then at.

[Caleb Heron]

I was in the writer's room for human resources. So I was working five to midnight in the writer's room on zoom. I was losing. I've never come so close to like, just doing something insane like, just like shaving my head or something. I was losing my mind. And I swear to God, I was sitting in that room sometimes just staring at the wall. Like, I could almost see Chili's, you know, Like, I could almost. I could almost see a Buffalo Wild wings server bringing a plate of wings to me.

[Niles Abstinence]

And you were. You were in London, so it's like.

[Caleb Heron]

There'S nothing to do. And I could. You couldn't. You weren't allowed to doordash you weren't allowed because no one could come onto the property. Property. I also got in trouble because I didn't understand. This is like my first big thing.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And I didn't understand.

[Niles Abstinence]

We all get in trouble on our first big. Yeah, I got in trouble on my first.

[Caleb Heron]

When I pulled up from the. You know, they had me in like a. They picked me up in like a Suburban from the airport, and they drove me outside London to this. Like, the estate was beautiful. And because they. Which, you know, they had to put Laura Dern there, so it had to be nice.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

They weren't doing that for me.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, Little lies, Laura.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. And so we pulled up and there's this. You pull into this, like, down this long. It used to be a royal hunting ground.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

So you pull down this long, beautiful driveway with like a big circle drive in front of the two main properties and like these huge fountains. It's made by colonialism. And the fountains are so beautiful in the sunshine. And I took a little video and posted to my Instagram story, immediate email that was like, hi. So people can tell you, like, it was like, don't blow up Jeff Goldblum's spot. His kids are being loud in the next room. People can't know where you are staying.

[Niles Abstinence]

You almost doxed off Goldblum.

[Caleb Heron]

I almost got Jeff Goldblum's kids in trouble. Yeah. So that was what happened.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

But I understand the outback thing is real. I was there for 10 minutes and I was like, get me something. Get me something.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cabin fever.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And then they brought. They would do like grocery store runs and you could ask for, I call snacks if you want, bring me some this, that or the other. But it's British snacks, so it's bullshit.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, hell no.

[Caleb Heron]

British.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's the. That's. That's the one. People I'm xenophobic to.

[Caleb Heron]

And I've got a lot.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I think that's okay.

[Caleb Heron]

I've got a whole list of people. I go, oh, fuck. I've been meaning to say, okay, yeah. Who am I xenophobic towards? I've been meaning to bring this one up. You know, I have a problem. I do have a problem with, like, New Zealand and Australian people.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, the hem's worst.

[Niles Abstinence]

Don't do it for you.

[Caleb Heron]

Some of. Now, let's not get crazy. Some of them. No, I really. Actually, I think it's just New Zealand people. If I'm being serious, I don't think.

[Niles Abstinence]

I've ever met one.

[Caleb Heron]

I like Australian people, you know, What? The other night. Night I went to dinner in la and guess who I saw?

[Niles Abstinence]

Who?

[Caleb Heron]

Melanie Lynskey.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't know that name.

[Caleb Heron]

Niles. You don't know who Melanie Linsky is?

[Niles Abstinence]

I'll be knowing white people. I'm sorry.

[Caleb Heron]

No, it's okay.

[Niles Abstinence]

I met too many early on in my life.

[Caleb Heron]

She's one of the whites you should know.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

I would put her on, like, Hollywood reporters, whites you should know list.

[Niles Abstinence]

Really?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Melanie Linsky. Oh, Melanie Linsky. Look how beautiful she is.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, I know her.

[Caleb Heron]

Melanie Linsky, everybody.

[Niles Abstinence]

I didn't know her name.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, my God. She's so beautiful and talented. I didn't say hi to her because I could. I'm gonna cry. I. I didn't say hi to her because we. She followed me on Twitter. We follow each other on Twitter, but I'm not really on there anymore like that. But she followed me for a long time. She's the most talented actress that we maybe have living.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, she's good.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

She's on Yellow Jacket.

[Caleb Heron]

She's incredible in everything she does. And I wanted to say hi to her, but I didn't want to bother her. She was with her husband, who's very handsome, and they were. They were having a dinner maybe with some friends or something. I wanted to say hi, but I didn't want to bother them.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

So. But Melanie Lynskey. Wow. I would kill to work with you, Queen.

[Niles Abstinence]

So is she, like, Australian or something?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, she's New Zealand. That's what I'm saying. She redeems. She redeems that whole region.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay. And Margot Robbie's cool.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Well, yeah, keep her.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, we'll keep her. She's white, so. You should know.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

We should make. You and I should collab on an industry list called whites, you should know.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think we should do that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. Because, you know, white people are doing so bad right now.

[Caleb Heron]

That's what I'm saying. Can we help white people out?

[Niles Abstinence]

We gotta. They need to do what?

[Caleb Heron]

If that was my big thing, I was like, niles, we got to do something for white people. That was my big. My big cause du jour, Niles, help me do something for white people.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, we could do one for every group.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Gays. You should know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Lil Nas X. Lil Nas X. Definitely a gay. You should know.

[Niles Abstinence]

He gotta be in there.

[Caleb Heron]

I'd love to know something about him.

[Niles Abstinence]

He.

[Caleb Heron]

I'll tell you a couple things I'd like to Know who's your celebrity crush?

[Niles Abstinence]

Celebrity? I got a. I got a few.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Watch your cookie.

[Niles Abstinence]

Gabrielle Union's number one.

[Caleb Heron]

God. You know, I met her.

[Niles Abstinence]

Fuck you.

[Caleb Heron]

You know, I met Gabrielle Union.

[Niles Abstinence]

Really?

[Caleb Heron]

Yes.

[Niles Abstinence]

She liked one of my tweets. And almost like. I don't. I can't say that on here.

[Caleb Heron]

Now her. Now her and Dwyane Wade.

[Niles Abstinence]

Beautiful couple.

[Caleb Heron]

God damn beautiful couple. That's a couple.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm happy for him.

[Caleb Heron]

When God did couples, this is what he was imagining.

[Niles Abstinence]

He was, like, my favorite basketball player growing up. And then when they got married, he. I had to bump him down to, like, six.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because that pissed me off.

[Caleb Heron]

They are so beautiful. Yeah, they're beautiful and so progressive and so cool.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Their family's so lovely. I. With Gabrielle Union, and we talked for, like, me, her, and her exec. I think we talked for, like, an hour and a half.

[Niles Abstinence]

I bet she's amazing.

[Caleb Heron]

She's so cool. She's so. I've loved her forever. I mean, I'm such a huge fan of hers. And she's just like, the nicest, warmest, like, most lovely, brilliant, like, thoughtful. I just was like, oh, my God, Gabrielle Union's everything. I hope she would be.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's beautiful.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Did she smell good?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, it was on the computer.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah, it was on the computer. Yes.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Sue me. Yes. I wish. Yeah. I wish Dwayne Wade was there.

[Niles Abstinence]

See, we. We think differently. I would not.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, you don't want him there.

[Niles Abstinence]

I want him there.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, we should go. You know what? We should go to a. We should try to get in a party with them and separate them.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm talking to Dwayne in the corner. I'm like, hey, what's up, man? Yeah, I bet. I bet they're fun. I bet they're fun at a party.

[Niles Abstinence]

I bet. I bet they are. Cool.

[Caleb Heron]

Gabrielle Union. That's a good one.

[Niles Abstinence]

She's my number one since I was a kid. And I'd have to say Eva Longoria.

[Caleb Heron]

Yep.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cause I used to stay. I used to stay with my aunt during the summers. So I would just always watch these, like, very auntie programming.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes.

[Niles Abstinence]

So it was. I would watch the View and Desperate Housewives as a little boy. My dad was starting to be like, hey, all right now.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Get these kids away from these old people.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. So I would. So we would just watch Desperate Housewives like, all the time. And I just fell in love with Gabrielle. What? Gabrielle Solis, her character. She would play.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Eva Longoria. I Was like nine. I was like, I love this woman.

[Caleb Heron]

You're that meme of that kid being. I'm turning 7 in August. God willing.

[Niles Abstinence]

Right.

[Caleb Heron]

To get these kids away from these old people.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was just. I was one of those kids with old people all the time. So I just watched a lot of old shit.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I love that.

[Niles Abstinence]

So they were probably my top two.

[Caleb Heron]

Were you an adult kid? Were you like, you loved? Yeah, me too.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was an eight year old preacher.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. Oh, my God, I wish I knew him.

[Niles Abstinence]

So I would preach at church. So I've like been working my entire. I'm so tired.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah. You've been here.

[Niles Abstinence]

I've been here.

[Caleb Heron]

You think you've been here before? You believe in that stuff?

[Niles Abstinence]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just know too much.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I see that in you. Yeah, I recognize that in you.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't like it though.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Because I'd be having to do the right thing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I don't like it for you.

[Niles Abstinence]

Or when I do the wrong thing. I think about it a lot.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's how I don't get like psychopaths at all. Like that don't bother you.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Morals are very cumbersome. Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking about letting mine go sometimes.

[Niles Abstinence]

Man, you've been in LA for a long time. You should be like, I should push you off a balcony.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I've been thinking about getting rid of my. My values. Just to see what I could do. Free up some. Free up some space, you know?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. I mean that. I'll probably see something like, Caleb is worth $300 million. He did it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. You'll be like, he finally did. He finally did it.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I'm gonna ask you for a job.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah. You want to come work for the evil empire?

[Niles Abstinence]

If it's you, I'll do it.

[Caleb Heron]

I want an evil empire. Chance, will you make a note of that?

[Niles Abstinence]

It looks so fun. Caleb making owning Amazon looks so fun.

[Caleb Heron]

I would do. Dude, this is the thing about our rich people right now. They're not being cool.

[Niles Abstinence]

They're rich people. Used to be so dope.

[Caleb Heron]

Were I rich when I was a.

[Niles Abstinence]

Kid, no one was saying, eat the rich.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You wanted to hang out with the rich.

[Caleb Heron]

You wouldn't hang out with them because they were. You know what I will say there are a lot of times that people come for Kim Kardashian and they're like, we gotta eat the rich. Someone just said this because she did a. I think she's awesome. She did a. She did a private screening of Wicked at her house with Cynthia Revo and Ariana Grande. And she spent, like, $200,000 on flowers to, like, line the walkway and did, like, a big. I was like, this is cool. This is what rich people should be doing. Do the silliest, most expensive. But then you should be, like, giving. I just. Venmo people every day.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. She's literally. She's not gonna do that, though.

[Caleb Heron]

I would literally. If I was a billionaire, I would walk up to a stranger on the street and I would say, what's your Venmo? I would throw them a cool thousand bucks. A thousand?

[Niles Abstinence]

That's nothing.

[Caleb Heron]

It's nothing.

[Niles Abstinence]

Nothing.

[Caleb Heron]

I'll throw them a cool thousand bucks. I would just. I would just find someone's being nice to me. Someone's smiling at me in traffic. I'd be like, they roll their window down. I go, what's your Venmo? Or I have cash on me.

[Niles Abstinence]

Throw it out the window. Like the Dave Chappelle sketch.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Literally.

[Caleb Heron]

It would be awesome.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't. I don't. And my other thing is, like, I think rich people have gotten soft, too. Why do you care what we think, right?

[Caleb Heron]

You want to be normal.

[Niles Abstinence]

You're on the Internet crying, like, why are y'all making fun of me? You have a billion dollars.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I should have something if.

[Caleb Heron]

Have them killed.

[Niles Abstinence]

Literally.

[Caleb Heron]

If someone makes fun of you, have them killed.

[Niles Abstinence]

You could literally do that. Off with his head. You literally.

[Caleb Heron]

Unhand me. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

The rich people are real soft, and they don't buy art anymore. Like, we need some mentors for these rich people.

[Caleb Heron]

That's the thing, is they used to do, like, funds for the arts and stuff, too. They used to find some little freak. They'd go to, like, Brooklyn, and they'd find some freak weirdo artist who was never gonna be embraced by the mainstream.

[Niles Abstinence]

That was Basquiat.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. And they would fund these freaks.

[Niles Abstinence]

Bro was new and heroin right in front of him.

[Caleb Heron]

I need a freak funder.

[Niles Abstinence]

Buy his painting.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. Get his painting now.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

I need a freak funder bad, literally. Because I could be freaky. I know I could, but I gotta keep it kind of normal.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

For my evil empire.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

We need. Bringing back patrons of the arts would be huge.

[Niles Abstinence]

We need a freak fund.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. We need a. We need a freak. I think Diddy did that.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, he definitely had a freak.

[Caleb Heron]

He did a freak fun. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Not that kind of freak.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, different. Different Freak fun.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Did he. Not that. Okay, I got a segment for you, Niles. That's it. This is a game. It's a true false segment.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay?

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. Now, if I'm gonna read you 15 statements, okay, you're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think it's true or false. False. Speed is of the essence.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay?

[Caleb Heron]

If you get 10 or more correct. Niles, I'm gonna give you 50 US dollars for your freak fund. Spiders are insects.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. They're arachnids. The electric chair was invented by a dentist.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Sloths can move three times faster in water than they can on land.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Catfish is the official state food of Mississippi.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

False. It's the butter cookie.

[Niles Abstinence]

What?

[Caleb Heron]

Whoa. You're a fake Mississippian. Okay?

[Niles Abstinence]

What?

[Caleb Heron]

The creator of peanut M&MS. Was allergic to peanut nuts.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Oral Roberts University was established in 1863.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. It's 1963. A group of pugs is called a puggle.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. It's a grumble. Only 2% of the. Only 2% of the population has green eyes.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. A newborn giant panda is about the size of a stick of butter.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Wendy's chocolate Frosty Flavor is actually half chocolate and half vanilla.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Carl Weathers was an NFL linebacker before becoming an actor.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Horizontal Refreshment was a 19th century slang term for sex.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

It's true. I need some horizontal refreshment. The PlayStation 2 came out after the Nintendo GameCube.

[Niles Abstinence]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. Before the. California has more NBA teams than any other state.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. The first pair of Nike running shoes was made in a waffle iron.

[Niles Abstinence]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Nice.

[Niles Abstinence]

Nya. I was going to be so mad if I didn't get that shit. That's how Sabrina got it. And I was like, I don't get the show. We mad.

[Caleb Heron]

Sabrina Breyer.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, she did.

[Niles Abstinence]

I need that 50.

[Caleb Heron]

You did. 12 was good. 12 is high.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was mad when I missed the. Was that really true on the Mississippi one?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Butter cookie.

[Caleb Heron]

Butter cookie.

[Niles Abstinence]

I've never. What is a butter cookie?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, well, you need to tap into Mississippi.

[Niles Abstinence]

Belzona, Mississippi, is the catfish capital of the world.

[Caleb Heron]

Mississippi catfish. That was a. That was a. Yeah. Chance tried to trip you up on that one.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

All right, I'm watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not getting in on the freak fund, right? Niles, you know. You know what this show's about. So True with Caleb Heron, the podcast. What's so true to you?

[Niles Abstinence]

What's so true to me?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay, look, I'm gonna offend some film school people with this one, but I'm I'm tired of seeing these posts when somebody's like, I just made my first film, or I just made my first project, and I just have to say, it was so hard. There's no bad movies. Bullshit, man. That is not.

[Caleb Heron]

Who said that?

[Niles Abstinence]

All these film people, dude. I'm like, that is bullshit. Just because it was hard for you to make a short film don't mean there's no bad movies. I forget the famous director, but he goes to see every movie because he said there's something good about every movie and that there's no bad movies because they're so hard to make. That's crazy, bro.

[Caleb Heron]

That is crazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, there is bad movies and we need to tell people they're bad so they'll leave. And honest. And look, I may be cut from a different cloth, whatever, but being in this industry, writing tv, making my own projects, has made me realize, actually this shit is not as hard as it looks. And a lot of these people are bad at this shit. I'll watch a TV show and be like, so this got through six different people that get paid all this fucking money went through an edit.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And y'all still put this on tv, right? Whereas I made a short film with two or three of my friends and I watched some shit. I was like, are y'all fucking shitting me right now? Yeah, cut this out.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, come on now. Yeah. And so, yeah, I just. I think making stuff is not as hard as people try to make it out to be. And I think y'all just aren't good at this.

[Caleb Heron]

Uh huh.

[Niles Abstinence]

Go home.

[Caleb Heron]

Interesting. I like the take. I like the take. I do think. I do think it brushes. Yeah, I agree. I do think there are objectively bad things. I do think if you're. There's a rubric that I like that's kind of like, did you achieve what you were trying to achieve? More than, like, you know, I don't necessarily care about, like, did you color grade it the way that would be industry standard and color grading or whatever, that is less interesting to me. But did you achieve what you were trying to achieve? That's the rubric I'm after. If you set out to make an Americana album that was, you know, heavy on this instrument, light on this instrument that evokes these emotions.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

You set out to do that. Did you do it? Did I feel what you wanted me to feel? Sure that, to me, is successful?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And if you didn't, then it's. Then you didn't do a good job. Yeah, I Think that's how I feel about it.

[Niles Abstinence]

There's a lot of bad movies.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Every year.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And it needs to be said.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I don't know what.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't know what an even more bad. I think most TV is bad.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think about like 75% of TV is bad.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't watch much TV.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't anymore.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't. I'm like going back and watching like all the old stuff. Like I missed. So like, I'm like, I just got into like the Sopranos.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Where you at? Do you know where you're at?

[Niles Abstinence]

And like, I'm like the sixth episode of the first season.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

No. Or whatever. He. He takes the daughter to like visit school or whatever and he kills the dude. That was amazing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So spoiler alert if you haven't.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm really jealous of you.

[Niles Abstinence]

But for watching it for the first time. Is that your thing?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Oh, I love Sopranos.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, nice.

[Caleb Heron]

I've watched it probably four times through all the way.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

It's so good.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like getting back. I'm getting like into like the old stuff. I want to watch the Wire.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just feel like a lot of TV is just like. And even some stuff, like people. It's. It's so good. And I'm like. Well, I think just. Just the one. The thing it's trying to be was really good and it's like evoking those emotions out of you.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I. I think you just like nostalgia. I don't think this is actually good.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

So I'm not going to say actual names of stuff, but.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just think.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, you're smarter than that. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I. I think Sopranos is just one of like the greatest TV shows we've ever made.

[Niles Abstinence]

Ever.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And.

[Niles Abstinence]

And of course, I'm not holding everything to a Soprano standard, cuz that's not fair.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Niles Abstinence]

But do better.

[Caleb Heron]

James Gandolfini also has a leading man. You out of that Casting director. That rocks.

[Niles Abstinence]

She did it.

[Caleb Heron]

He was sick.

[Niles Abstinence]

She did it.

[Caleb Heron]

He was so good in that. God, he's. Yeah. Chance wearing a satchel.

[Niles Abstinence]

Is that in the show?

[Caleb Heron]

Sopranos? Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

I. James Gandolfini is one of the actors along with Philip Seymour Hoffman that.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm like, I love Philip Seymour.

[Caleb Heron]

What would we be getting from them right now? You know what I mean? Some good Philip Seymour Hoffman would be turning into. Oh, I can't imagine what the fuck he would be doing. Oh, yeah, he was so good.

[Niles Abstinence]

Who are you? Who's your favorite favorite actor ever? Yeah, it's probably either Samuel Jackson or Denzel.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I mean, Denzel, Jesus.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, I'm ready for that gladiator too.

[Caleb Heron]

Did you see the headline?

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

He's like, I'm putting on this dress and these rings, and I'm going crazy. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Somebody said that was Young Thug when he was making his last album. Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. God, I love Denzel. Actually, my favorite. My favorite Denzel performance of all time because it's all the greats, right? But my favorite Denzel performance of all time, it's that clip of him and Jamie Foxx where he's like, I'm leaving here with something.

[Niles Abstinence]

Leaving with something, bro. I love. I say that all the time.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm leaving here with something.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's talking about the Oscars.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's not talking about, like, some party.

[Caleb Heron]

He's talking about the Oscars and the way he. The way he delivers.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm leaving here with. Leaving here was something so funny.

[Caleb Heron]

And he's like, I knew I wasn't gonna win. And Jamie's so fun, that clip. To me, I literally, when I'm having a bad day, sometimes I watch that clip.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's good.

[Caleb Heron]

I love that clip.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, that interview was so cool. Cuz, like, you just find out, like, he's, like, a big fan of Cardi b randomly and like, all this stuff. Like, okay, Denzel's a regular person, all right.

[Caleb Heron]

He's also in that, like, old guy killed it his whole career. Like, he's in that level of comfort where he just will show up to an interview. We're in spots now.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, he just pops up wearing whatever he's comfortable in.

[Niles Abstinence]

No. No shade, huh?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. No. Well, a podcast is hardly an interview with Jamie Foxx, you know? But no, he will. He'll. He'll show up to anything. Just being like, this is what I'm doing now. Yeah, I love that guy.

[Niles Abstinence]

I want to see him do a comedy, man.

[Caleb Heron]

What's your favorite Denzel movie?

[Niles Abstinence]

Favorite Denzel movie ever is Training Day.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, Training Day is great.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think that. That, like, I just think it's as a movie, it's just well written and so well put together. And Ethan Hawke is great too.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

But just that monologue, the character, it was just. That was crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

I. Your Training Day. I'm raising you. John Q. Ooh, I love John Q. John Q is my favorite Denzel performance.

[Niles Abstinence]

I love John Q.

[Caleb Heron]

He's amazing in the film.

[Niles Abstinence]

It's a good one.

[Caleb Heron]

He's amazing that he's not going to bury his son. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. I love that I'm gonna watch that movie today.

[Niles Abstinence]

I need to rewatch that. It's been a while. Yeah, no, I love, but I really want to see him do a comedy because he's old now. He's done everything. And I just feel like any other, like, every serious role he does from now on is just kind of like, okay, like, you're Denzel, of course this is good. But I feel like if he, like, did a comedy and like, killed it, it would just be like, all right, you're the best.

[Caleb Heron]

I do. I would love to see him have, like a bit of a Nick Cage.

[Niles Abstinence]

Arc where, like, yeah, just do some funny. Goofy, goofy.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you see Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent or Renfield?

[Niles Abstinence]

I like both of those.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I love that. And I, it's, it's something that only a long time acclaimed. We already know you're great at this real way. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You got to be in it for a minute to do something like that.

[Caleb Heron]

Denzel can do that.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. I would love to see him do some, like, really funny, funny thing.

[Caleb Heron]

He's one of the few people that can do that. Yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to see. I've been thinking a lot about Batista.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's good.

[Caleb Heron]

He's good. I want to see him in a indie drama, dude.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

I want to see him in a heartbreaking, like, gut wrenching. I want to cry at a Batista movie.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

I want that for him, cuz I think he wants it maybe as well.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think, I think so too. I, I, it looks like he really wants to be an actor.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, so I want it for him. I like Batista.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I like that he lost a bunch of weight and he was like, well, I want to act. And when I saw that, I was like, fuck.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yo.

[Caleb Heron]

I was like, God damn it.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's funny.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, my God. I mean, I guess I knew, but fuck.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Heron]

He was like, well, yeah, I couldn't act at that size. I was like, oh, fuck, I gotta get to work. And his was muscle. Yeah. Damn, that was tough to see.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. I mean, it's just like he has to, he has to beat out John Cena or the Rock for every one of those roles.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's why the Rock makes so much money. If you write a role for a big dude that needs to be charming and kind of funny, he's gonna get the part.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And I love John Cena and the Rock as actors, by the way. I would love, love, love to. Actually, I'm kind of writing something right now with John Cena in mind. I would love to work with John Cena. I think he's very funny and I think he's very charming. Charming. John Cena and the Rock both. I think their strong suits are like. They don't have. There's something that Batista has that they don't. Yeah, like, Batista has a. Like, he has a. I don't know, there's like a tenderness to him. There's like a. There's something about him that I think is just a little different than those two.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And so I do think he could carve out a different lane for him.

[Niles Abstinence]

I do too. I. I definitely think. Think so. So, yeah, I can see why he probably, like changed his body and stuff.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. My favorite, the Rock Roll is the other guys.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah. Because it's short.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, it's short and also it's hilarious.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't need to see the Rock for two hours. Central Intelligence with Kevin Hart is actually a pretty good movie, though.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I will give them that one.

[Caleb Heron]

You will give the Rock? He will give the Rock his one flower.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

His singular flower.

[Niles Abstinence]

He's not my favorite actor in the world.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know, you think.

[Caleb Heron]

You think God real.

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

I like to spring it on people, see what happens.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't at all.

[Caleb Heron]

No God for you?

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I don't believe in anything. The point of life, I think, is community at the end of the day. Like love and friends and how you are in relationships and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's like, who are you to the people around you? Like, do the people around you genuinely enjoy being around you? Like, is there love there? Like, I think that's the most important part of life. And I do think religion have that in a certain kind of way with the community building aspect. But then like when you give one man, like all the power at the top, like, that just kind of fucks it all.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. We can't trust almost anyone to do. It's really just me that we could trust with that, honestly. Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I'm gonna give Caleb power. That's it.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanna. I would probably start a cult. I think it'd be cool.

[Niles Abstinence]

I mean, I think most comedians have a little bit of that.

[Caleb Heron]

I think it'd be cool. I'd start a cool one.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cause when you. When you sell out a show and you do an app in front of people, it feels cult.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, well, it's psychotic. You really stop. Do you ever stop and think about, like, it is crazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

I did it on stage once.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I was in Pittsburgh.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

Cause it was like, I literally stopped. Like, I had a joke hit so hard and I stopped. I was like, I've never been here before.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

None of y'all know me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I'm just talking about my life up here.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And y'all paid to be here. And they just go. Yeah. And I was like, all right, just get back to the jokes. Like, this is crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

Bottle rocket.

[Niles Abstinence]

What is that?

[Caleb Heron]

We do bottle Rocket in Pittsburgh.

[Niles Abstinence]

No, I did this, like, independent show. I'm not.

[Caleb Heron]

I'm not.

[Niles Abstinence]

Where you at? Yeah. Caleb, you can't do that shit.

[Caleb Heron]

Hit him up. I think you do a good bottle rocket, but the thing of, like, standing on a stage with only your thoughts to entertain people for an hour is a really crazy. It's trippy.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's why it's the coolest art form to me. And I had this talk about. With another comedian. I won't say his name, but. But we were talking about how, like, we both hate PowerPoint comedy.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Because really, I kind of like it.

[Niles Abstinence]

I hate it.

[Caleb Heron]

Why?

[Niles Abstinence]

Because stand up is supposed to be this thing where you just have the mic and you're supposed to communicate the thing so well. You don't need all the other shit.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And so, like, for me, it's like, if you need that PowerPoint, then you probably didn't write the joke that good.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I felt this way before.

[Niles Abstinence]

That's just. That's just me. And I might be wrong. Cause there's some people killing with the PowerPoint.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

You know what I'm saying? And do your thing. Because I don't like it. Don't stop. Don't stop what you doing. But, like, for me, I just very much love the pure. Just, like, standing there with a mic, sit on the stool, and you just talking to these people and, like, hitting them with punchlines and making them think about stuff they would never, ever think ever in their life. And they're gonna repeat it at work tomorrow.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just don't think a PowerPoint does that.

[Caleb Heron]

I hear you. I felt that way. There was definitely a moment coming out of Chicago when Everybody was doing PowerPoints in Chicago for a second, including my.

[Niles Abstinence]

The first place I saw it, when I did stand up.

[Caleb Heron]

And I was doing it, too. And I definitely. I acknowledged in my own work that I was like this. You're doing this because you're being lazy.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like you.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, Yeah, I was. I. I fully, like, I. I went to New York and LA and did like a PowerPoint set that I had been doing and it went really well and it sold out.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I've seen some that are really funny.

[Caleb Heron]

It. Mine wasn't really in particular, to be honest. Like, mine was honestly a crutch. I'll be honest.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, that's real.

[Caleb Heron]

I was being lazy. Like, I didn't want to focus on the jokes. I didn't believe in the jokes. It was a crutch where, like the Power Point created this. And I think a lot of people, if they were really honest with themselves, would admit the same thing. Where it's like, it created this, like, this comfort of like, well, I can just click the next slide or there's something that'll make them laugh in there if I don't do my job.

[Niles Abstinence]

I hate when the picture is the punchline.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I will say, though, that is what.

[Niles Abstinence]

Like, late night TV is, though.

[Caleb Heron]

100 and by the way, there's. There's a lot of people that are doing it in really innovative ways. I wasn't doing it creatively. I was being a hack.

[Niles Abstinence]

What's the dude. He just didn't one. He's really funny.

[Caleb Heron]

Josh Sharp.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't know. That is. It's a white dude. He. He. He's part. I think he's with A.D. bryant.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, Conor. Ol.

[Niles Abstinence]

Yeah, I watched his on YouTube and I liked his. Yeah, his was very interesting because it was like a character and stuff. I liked it.

[Caleb Heron]

You should go see Josh Sharp.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Josh Sharp's doing a PowerPoint hour right now that he does. He does a slide cue every three seconds. It is so choreographed. Ingenious. I haven't seen something this tight as a. As a joke writer. You'll really appreciate it.

[Niles Abstinence]

Okay. He might. He might change my.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

And I'm all about changing perspective.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. But in to your point, I definitely was. When I was doing PowerPoints, I was being a hack.

[Niles Abstinence]

Well, yeah, I get that.

[Caleb Heron]

And I had to stop.

[Niles Abstinence]

I just have this rule. I don't want to use nothing Richard Pryor couldn't use.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Niles Abstinence]

I think he's the best ever. And he could. He didn't even have access to that shit. He just had crack.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, but he was an innovator.

[Niles Abstinence]

Exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

So don't you think maybe he would be doing PowerPoints now?

[Niles Abstinence]

No.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't know.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't think so.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't know, he might be at ucb.

[Niles Abstinence]

I don't think so.

[Caleb Heron]

Richard Pryor might have been doing a one man show at UCB Sunset. You don't like to hear it.

[Niles Abstinence]

You don't like to hear it.

[Caleb Heron]

Richard Pryor is one of my greats as well. No, but he might be doing something else.

[Niles Abstinence]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Heron]

You don't like to hear it, but it might be the case right now.

[Niles Abstinence]

Don't disrespect my goat like that.

[Caleb Heron]

No, he really is.

[Niles Abstinence]

He just had a mic and some.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, and a little bit of Marlon.

[Niles Abstinence]

Brando, but we don't have to talk about that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Niles, thank you so much for being on.

[Niles Abstinence]

Thank you for having me. This was so fun.

[Caleb Heron]

Please tell the people where they can find you.

[Niles Abstinence]

You can follow me on Twitter ilz100, Instagram, the Niles Abstinence Show. Follow me. I run a monthly show with don't tell called who All Gonna Be There. Tickets are on sale right now, November 22nd. Come out to the show in LA if you're here.

[Caleb Heron]

Great. Thanks for being on.

[Niles Abstinence]

That was a headgum podcast.