134: Placebo Addict with Shane Mauss | Soder Podcast | EP 132

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Soder
Host: Dan Soder
Episode: 134: Placebo Addict with Shane Mauss
Guest: Shane Mauss
Date: May 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a deep-dive, hilarious, and intellectually vibrant conversation between comedian Dan Soder and guest Shane Mauss—comedian, science fanatic, and psychedelic explorer. Together, they traverse Shane’s comedic evolution, the intricacies (and absurdities) of drug and psychedelic culture, the intersection of science and stand-up, the pitfalls of tech culture, and the evolving meaning of “placebo” experiences in our modern age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shane Mauss’s Evolution as a Comedian

(03:52–05:43)

• Shane reflects on transitioning from traditional stand-up filled with drinking and sex jokes to themed, science-oriented comedy, inspired by his passion for science and personal evolution.
  • “I was always just reading science books... I never put the two together that I could put science in my act.” (06:04, Shane Mauss)
• After achieving his dream (“Comedy Central Presents” in 2009), Shane realized he wasn’t as fulfilled as expected and began exploring more meaningful material:
  • “I had this party in this bar, friends and family around and stuff. And I just remember going, huh. And... I’m not happy. Like, really?” (05:02, Shane Mauss)

2. Comedy, Psychedelics, and Science

(07:39–13:19)

• Shane details his “Here We Are” podcast, where he meets scientists on tour, and how he aims to bring obscure scientific ideas to the mainstream through comedy.
  • “I’d be talking with these people, and I’d be like... no one in the public would be hearing this at all if it weren’t for my... listeners.” (08:03, Shane Mauss)
• Discussion about integrating storytelling and science into comedy, referencing other pioneers like Maria Bamford and Ari Shaffir.
  • Dan on Maria Bamford: “When people go, I don't like Maria Bamford. It’s like when someone doesn’t like a $400 bottle of wine...” (11:34, Dan Soder)
• Both explore the challenge of connecting big ideas with humor, and the tension between laughs-per-minute and meaningful content.
  • “With doing science jokes... if it takes so long to set up a concept... the laughs per minute aren’t there.” (10:59, Shane Mauss)

3. The Psychedelic Art Show & Mind’s Eye

(14:29–18:43)

• Shane describes his live Vegas residency show, combining stand-up with psychedelic visuals, working with visual artist Michael Strauss.
  • “My VJ, Michael Strauss, who blends things together in real time, so I'm not locked into a script...” (15:15, Shane Mauss)
• Discussion introduces “aphantasia” (the inability to visualize images) and “hyperphantasia”—with a personal angle about Shane’s VJ being attracted to visuals he normally can't see, except during psychedelic experiences.
  • “He only sees them when he’s on psychedelics, which is why he’s so attracted to this...” (17:50, Shane Mauss)

4. Perceptions, Sensing, and Brain Science

(19:20–24:23)

• Dan shares losing his sense of smell from COVID and describes how his brain experiences “smell-memories” now.
  • “It was similar to when I've seen documentaries where people talk about their site returning… I can see the outlines of it.” (21:18, Dan Soder)
• Shane references Oliver Sacks’s work on visual hallucinations in the blind, and the brain’s “idle” mechanisms.
  • “When a part of the brain goes dormant... the brain does a similar thing...” (22:41, Shane Mauss)
• Brief discussion of the potential for psychedelics to “reset” neural connections, with Shane noting a noticeable reset after trips, especially related to old injuries.
  • “I've noticed when I've had an experience that there’s like a little bit of a reset...” (24:04, Shane Mauss)

5. Performing on Psychedelics & Psychedelic Culture

(25:23–31:05)

• Both share stories and advice about performing stand-up while on psychedelics—concluding it's a novel, but mostly unpleasant, experience.
  • “It was good until it wasn’t...” (26:44, Dan Soder)
• Shane describes the popularity of psychedelic shows, addressing common audience questions and the cultural misunderstanding of tripping as a performance enhancer.
  • “One of the common questions is... are you going to be on drugs while performing?... I just don’t know why that would be entertaining for people.” (25:23, Shane Mauss)
• Dan on tripping at concerts: “That was the last time I want to trip inside.” (29:29, Dan Soder)
• Discussion of different psychedelic substances, namely 2-CB, and the growing specificity of synthetic drugs.
  • “2 CB is this research chemical... mushroom visuals and MDMA-like body and feel, but no head trip...” (31:43, Shane Mauss)

6. The Scientists Who Pushed the Envelope

(32:20–35:26)

• Shane tells the story of Alexander Shulgin, the chemist who developed hundreds of psychedelics, tested everything on himself, and sparked a culture of self-experimentation.
  • “He made over a thousand chemicals... he tried, he liked one out of five...” (34:20, Shane Mauss)
• “Dan’s Law”: If you run a company, you have to use your own products. Applied humorously to scientists testing drugs on themselves.
  • “Yeah, if you’re a scientist, better try it on yourself first...” (33:42, Dan Soder)

7. Psychedelics & the Bay Area Vibe

(35:26–41:02)

• They discuss the unique convergence of psychedelic culture in the Bay Area: intellectual curiosity, good weather, blue-collar roots, the history of the Grateful Dead, Ken Kesey, and more.
  • “What is it about the Bay Area that just lends itself so much to psychedelics?” (35:49, Dan Soder)
• Dan shares family stories about his aunt’s drug-fueled run-ins and the generational gap in understanding psychedelics.

8. Microdosing, Tech Bros, and the Placebo Effect

(42:19–53:33)

• Shane critiques the trend of “microdosing” among Silicon Valley types, saying it’s more about control and productivity than true psychedelic exploration.
  • “It’s funny, the word psychedelic… considered the most mind-altering substances on earth. And some people are like... just enough so it doesn’t alter my mind in any way whatsoever.” (42:19, Shane Mauss)
• Both lampoon the shallow way tech “biohackers” pursue longevity and “optimization” (e.g., Brian Johnson), comparing it to being “addicted to placebos.”
  • “It’s just a bunch of control freaks... addicted to placebos.” (53:01, Shane Mauss)
• The quest for scientific authorities in the wellness, tech, or longevity world is lampooned.

9. Information Overload, Confidence, and Human Myths

(56:09–63:33)

• Shane talks about the dangers of ego, the Dunning-Kruger effect, and how access to information (smartphones) leads us to overestimate what we actually know.
  • “You mistake it for, like, having already looked it up and doing the research.” (59:45, Shane Mauss)
• “It’s like taking a cup to the ocean... versus, like, a sink where it’s just dropping...” (60:47, Dan Soder)
• Shane previews his new show, “Myth Understandings,” which explores human storytelling, myth, and modern disinformation—breaking down big concepts with jokes, inspired by Colin Quinn.

10. Storytelling, Bombing, and the Comedic Process

(62:21–64:49)

• Both discuss the vulnerability of storytelling on stage versus telling jokes, the risk of “losing the crowd,” and how every comedian’s journey is marked by failures and learning.
  • “What’s worse than bombing is having a crowd lost on a story...” (62:16, Dan Soder)
• Dan on the arc of learning stand-up: “Your first open mic, you can kill and then spend the next two years eating shit.” (58:06, Dan Soder)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Scientists are the most to write you back... They’re not getting thrown at them when they walk out of the lab.” (07:10, Dan Soder)
• “It’s weird an introvert would get into comedy. It’s like, oh, we like one sided conversations.” (13:19, Shane Mauss)
• “Aphantasia is when you don’t see any visuals in your mind’s eye at all. So he only sees them when he’s on psychedelics, which is why he’s so attracted to this...” (17:50, Shane Mauss)
• “Microdosing... It’s just a bunch of control freaks addicted to placebos.” (53:01, Shane Mauss)
• “The whole cliche with the microdosing and the tech culture—...You don’t want to do the thing, but you want to take the thing.” (42:46, Dan Soder)
• “It’s like taking a cup to the ocean and you’re just, like, trying to get a cup of water and it’s just splashing out...” (60:47, Dan Soder)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:52 – Shane’s stand-up evolution
• 07:39 – Fusing science and comedy, “Here We Are” podcast
• 10:59 – Jokes-per-minute vs. big ideas in comedy
• 14:29 – The psychedelic show, “aphantasia,” and visuals
• 21:18 – Dan describing smell loss and “memory smells”
• 25:23 – The experience and Perils of performing on psychedelics
• 31:43 – The science of research chemicals and 2CB
• 34:20 – Alexander Shulgin’s self-experimentation
• 42:19 – The microdosing trend and tech culture
• 53:01 – “Addicted to placebos” and longevity science critique
• 56:09 – Psychedelics, humility, the human ego
• 59:45 – Information overload, confidence, and why we think we know more than we do
• 62:21 – Storytelling vs. jokes—comic process introspection
• 63:33 – Shane’s new show, “Myth Understandings,” and reference to Colin Quinn

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Tone & Language

• Warm, casual, and deeply conversational in the language of stand-up comedians and science nerds.
• Both Soder and Mauss use irreverence and humor to dissect intellectual and cultural themes.
• Frequent blending of personal anecdotes with high-concept topics.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rare blend of science, comedy, and cultural commentary, perfect for fans of smart, thoughtful humor. Shane Mauss’s journey from traditional stand-up to psychedelic science storytelling is both a personal evolution and a microcosm of broader shifts in comedy. Dan and Shane riff on everything from mind perception, human ego, tech futurism, and the placebos we collectively seek, always landing the punchline. For anyone interested in comedy’s next frontier, or simply in need of a brain-tingling laugh, this is essential listening.

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Relevant Link:
Shane Mauss’s Second Dose Comedy Special (YouTube)
Shane Mauss’s Website/Schedule

Transcript

[Dan Soder]

Neighbor game.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row

[Dan Soder]

at a comedy show.

[Shane Moss]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Dan Soder]

hey everybody, thanks for watching this episode. I'm on the road a little bit. Listen, we got a bunch of clubs we're about to announce soon. We're getting a poster together with it. We're getting all the dates. I'm going to be building a new hour in these clubs all summer. July, August, September, November. It's going to be a hell of a time. But right now, if you want to see this hour before we film it for Netflix, June 1 and June 2 Comedy Key west in Key West, Florida. One of the best venues to have fun in Key west comedy. It's a blast. I'm looking forward to it. It's a Monday, Tuesday, June 1, June 2, comedy Key West. Dan Soder.com for those tickets. And then June 5, I'm going to be at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. I'm bringing Sam Evans and Greg Stone. Gonna have a hell of a time. Dan Soder.com for those tickets as well. And then in Mill Valley, we'll see you at the Throckmorton June 13th. We're looking at trying to open up some more tickets once we find out our camera setup so stay tuned for that. But Dan Soder.com for all the dates. We got all the dates up there and we'll be announcing a ton of club dates soon all together. Also, if you're in Montreal, I'll see you July 25th for just for Laughs. I'll be at Club Soda doing a headlining show. Dansoder.com thank you guys for watching the podcast. Hope you're having a decent week. The part about New York City apartments that people don't understand is it's not like if that would have happened in the suburbs, you would just go, is this your house? And you go up and go, oh, he lives next door. But New York City, you're like, hey, I'm in the market. The meat refrigerator of a market. Is this your apartment? And you go, no. And then you check completely. I gave you the completely wrong address. That's.

[Shane Moss]

It wasn't of the numbers to have wrong. It was a decent one. It was the one one block away.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. If it would have been the first number, it probably would have really fucked some shit up. But also I feel like it's unfair for you as a person that enjoys drugs that in that moment I was like, I. How many people in that moment go, he's probably on drugs.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Not realizing it was my fault. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I mean, I'm on drugs too. It's not even a drug. It's.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, I. I get asked to do so many psychedelic events and I'm like, let me guess. Well, meaning terribly organized. And this is gonna be a nightmare.

[Dan Soder]

For those of you that don't know Shane Moss, go watch Shane Moss. He is one of. He's just a fantastic stand up comedian. And the thing that I love about it is I remember watching you when we were booze buddies.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And we'd go do stand up. The thing that's great is you had this whole evolution and did you know, experiences with DMT and all these. He's got a special out right now called First Dose. Second Dose is coming out April 13th. I think this might come out after that. So go watch it. It's great. I watched half of the first one and I love the entire idea of you explaining drug trips, but through jokes.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

A lot of times people do this shit and they just talk.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

You're still. That's what I said when I told Katie when I watched it, I go, it's awesome to watch you do material about drugs. And you're still Shane Moss.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Still like writing great bits.

[Shane Moss]

I actually, I. So it started, I transitioned from doing regular stand up to doing science themed shows.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Shane Moss]

And then I just.

[Dan Soder]

What made you want to do that? You just were bored with stand up.

[Shane Moss]

Honestly. I remember I got my Comedy Central presents in like, oh, nine.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

And. And that was like my dream at the time. I remember when I started comedy, I was like, if I just had a Comedy Central presents in like five years, boy, then I'd really be on some. And that was like an unrealistic expectation, but I did it. And I remembered I, like, had this party in this bar, friends and family around and stuff. And I just remember going, huh. And like, killed it. Loved the taping. And then I was like, I'm not happy. Like, really?

[Dan Soder]

And was it at the after party?

[Shane Moss]

It was after that. And then I wrote an hour to, like, do an hour. And I was like, boy, I just don't care about this. And what.

[Dan Soder]

What changed? Because I think, like, well, think about the thing about joke writing that's interesting is it's figuring out a puzzle a lot of the time.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I have this idea, but how do I make this idea do this thing of making people laugh?

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And so I think a lot of the joy in joke writing is figuring it out. But when you did the new hour, were you just like, whatever.

[Shane Moss]

It was a lot of drinking and dick jokes and stuff. And I was like. And then I was doing, you know, I was. I was doing international shows where they're doing these themed shows, which. And I was like a late night comic. And I was like, well, what would my theme be? And I was always just reading science books and. And I never put the two together that I could put science in my act. And then anyone that ever tries to do science jokes, it's always like late nighty. Like you read a headline and then have a. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Mars might not be as hard to go. Mars isn't as far as my ex wife's. Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

And I was like, I care about ideas. Like, I like to eat mushrooms and watch David Attenborough documentaries and stuff.

[Dan Soder]

Who doesn't?

[Shane Moss]

And that was literally what I was doing. And I had all these questions. I was just like in a funk. And I just started writing scientists. And then they, like wrote back and I was like, that's so weird that they're writing me back.

[Dan Soder]

But I feel like out of celebrities.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Scientists are the most to write you back.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, they're not.

[Shane Moss]

Well, they're not celebrities.

[Dan Soder]

Well, that's what I mean, even if they are.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Like world renowned physicists.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. They're not getting thrown at them when they walk out of the lab. Oh, they're not like, you were figuring out gravity on Saturn. Can I suck your dick in your Jaguar? They're taking a Honda back to a very, like.

[Shane Moss]

No, there's. There's not, like, lining up to. To, like, to blow the roadie to get backstage in the lab.

[Dan Soder]

I would enjoy celebrities so much more if it was for intelligent people. Providing information.

[Shane Moss]

That's my whole thing. And then I, like, went to all these labs. I started this Here we are podcast, where each week when I was touring, I'd go to a different university and talk to them a lot about how the mind works and perception stuff.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Shane Moss]

And I'd be talking with these people, and I'd be like, oh, my God, like, 200 people on Earth have, like, read this paper that you wrote. They're all in your field.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

And no one in the public would be hearing this at all if it weren't for my, like, minuscule amount of

[Dan Soder]

listeners listening to this going and digging it up.

[Shane Moss]

And. And. And it blew my mind. And so I started putting together, like, I had a Netflix special called Mating Season that was, like, a bunch of animal mating behavior and as it relates to relationships. Then I put out a L and I. It was fine. But then I. I put out an album. I had broken my feet and put out an album.

[Dan Soder]

Remember that? You did the bonfire.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

After you had had a bad DMT experience and broke both your feet.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then you were on the. But you were healed by the time you came on the bonfire.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But it was fun because that was the first I saw of this version of you.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because I knew Shane. Clean cut from Wisconsin. By way of Boston. It was a Minnesota or you grew up Wisconsin.

[Shane Moss]

Wisconsin.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. By way of Boston.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And you were always like, I asked my buddy Shane, you're gonn and it looks like a lacrosse player. And then you showed up the bonfire, and Big J was like, who's. I was like, this is Shane. We're just gonna find out. This is new Shame. You were. You were telling us about how you broke your feet.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Both your feet at the same time.

[Shane Moss]

Jumping broke my feet. I've broken my mind. My bank accounts of.

[Dan Soder]

But can I tell you something that makes me feel really good of seeing you this time? The last time I saw you on the bonfire, you were coming out of breaking your mind, and you were kind of piecing it together and watching your last night, I was like, oh, he's back.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like your Mind is back.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Especially with the again, go watch 10 years ago. And it did take a while.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, go watch first dose. Because what I do love about it is you had jokes, dude. I was telling Katie you were the first person I ever saw do Conan live. Joe List got me a ticket. Joe. I was drunk in Central park because my restaurant won our softball league. And Joe List was like, Shane Moss is taped his Conan. Do you want to go to it? And I had met you once or twice and I was like, yes, what do I have to do? He's like, you have to get to 30 Rock right now. And I was in my softball shirt, my fucking shorts, my like basketball shoes and a hat. And I was drunk. And I remember going to 30 Rock and finding my way. And I sat behind the Max Kellerman at seven. Yeah, like behind you. I watched you and I'd seen your stand up, but it was the first late night saw, so. But you were so tight. Yeah, you were so like boom, boom, boom. And then to watch your special last night, I'm like, man, he's still. That still writes a joke. Yeah, I love that. I. That's my favorite thing is to be like, he still got that snap on that fastball.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I do it. I go back and forth because some of my themed shows that I do are definitely heading in the direction of like a TED Talkie type thing because it's bigger ideas and. And I also real with doing science jokes. Like if, if it takes so long to do to set up a concept, then to have like one or two punch lines. Like the laughs per minute aren't there.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

So you really have to like make a theme so that it pays off. So you take kind of the hit in the beginning and then it pays off. Like the people that. I mean, it is hard to do. Like, I just watched Maria Bamford. I mean old baby. And like I, I was like, I didn't realize the first time because I think I was just enjoying it so much, but I was paying attention laughs per minute that she had and like a meaningful like themed thing. And like I'm not there, but I. But. But that's something to aspire to for her.

[Dan Soder]

When people go, I don't like Maria Bamford. It's like when someone doesn't like a $400 bottle of wine where you go, I don't even think you know what you're intake. I don't think you realize this is some of the best of the best.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

She is done, done stuff that I've listened to. I like listening to her albums while I drive because for some reason just listening to it helps me with my. It's like almost like reading a book.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Picture it better.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Where when I listen to Maria Bamford, I can like hear all the places she goes where I think when I watch, I get distracted by lighting or the curtain or how she's standing. So I love listening to her albums. And one that I always listen to and I have for years is unwanted thought syndrome. Because you start seeing the like beginning of her going into the deeper stuff, but she like just puts her foot in it.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But the laughs or minute are still.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean you can go to her site and find these treasure troves of all these like weird like web series

[Dan Soder]

things and stuff that she's lady dynamite was like. Was born out of all that.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like she was like, yeah, she's incredible. I love people that do that. You know, I always really respected what Ari Shafir did with storytelling.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because he would be like, yeah, you got a long story but you can punch it up. And then when I did his. This is not happening. I worked on this story about getting robbed when I lived with a drug dealer and I remember trying it and you have that feeling where you go, I've really bummed out the room.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

The room is like, oh my God. Like I don't want to laugh right now. You have a gun on your head and you're like, oh, he was going to get fun and like to learn how to put that shit in the kind of like make it palpable for like. Or digestible as comedy.

[Shane Moss]

Well, that was also like I was, I was part of the reason why I was so like shot tight and dry and everything was. I was like a very shy, introverted person. Sure. When I was young. And so it was like a way of having like very tight control over exactly every. It's. It's funny when people are like, it's weird an introvert would get into comedy. It's like, oh, we like one sided conversations.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. You've never know. I always thought it was funny when people like, you talk to yourself and I'm like, how do you not. How do you work out? Voices don't talk to themselves. It's crazy when people think I'm crazy for talking to myself. It's like, so when you drop something on the ground, you just breathe through your nose. You just go. You don't go, you idiot. You dropped. You like even that, like, even that

[Shane Moss]

little bit, I think people have. I think there's a spectrum of how much inner monologue we have. And some people have.

[Dan Soder]

I've heard that people have.

[Shane Moss]

Any at all. That's what I've heard my.

[Dan Soder]

So that's very interesting to me to just not have a voice going. What the is that?

[Shane Moss]

So get this. My, My, my. My special. We call them trips. Then it's like the first dose and the second dose. I'm doing the third dose live. No, I'm stuck in this.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, yeah. We were talking about the first hit, made the. The universe crumble on itself. And then the next one, you're like, my whole life went on and you're like, dude, I wouldn't be able to handle that.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah. But I. Part of the reason, because I did a psychedelic tour back. That's what we talked about on the bonfire. And then I set that aside and started doing other things. But then this opportunity. One of the first things that came up after Covid was this opportunity to do a Vegas residency with like, visuals and everything. Had all these artists and whatnot, which is really cool. Yeah. And it was a fun thing to get to work on. It took a really long time. We kind it down now, but. But my vj, Michael Strauss, who blends things together in real time, so. So I'm not locked into a script so I can go off and he can.

[Dan Soder]

So basically almost like lighting cues, but with visual art.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

So you can go, oh, you're going over here. Let me. Instead of turn the lighting over here, I can like make it blend behind him.

[Shane Moss]

In the same way a DJ can alter things based on the vibe he can throw in. He has. He has like 25 years worth of visuals. So like, say. Say a service dog is in the show and starts barking, he might start putting up dog visuals or something.

[Dan Soder]

That would make my dog barking crazy. I mean, with the stuff like, you know, the. The reference to DMT where you're like. You learn all the whole universe. You said it's in the trailer for Second Dose. And then it's like all the stuff behind you.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then you're like. And it's just forgotten. Is that. Is that kind of visuals planned or is that a lot of it?

[Shane Moss]

A lot of it is like. Yeah. So a lot. A lot of the bits we have like a set. These are the visuals that. That I'll put when he launches into this bit. But I. What order I do the bits and then if I improvise, he'll Improvise as well.

[Dan Soder]

Damn, you got to be. He's got to be on it.

[Shane Moss]

He's been doing it for 25 years. He was one of the first, he started doing his first VJ set. Was taking, was, was cutting VHS tapes together and put it together with scotch tape and having multiple, multiple projectors going on and stuff. 25 years ago. And, and, and so any we, I, I saw him at a conference providing visuals for talks and I was like, this is the guy. I know, he can do this. And we started working on it and then right before launching the Vegas residency, we were in the backyard in, in Vegas and he had this, this projector set up and, and he was playing visuals and stuff and we were on this research chemical 2 CB and doing like a little nitrous and stuff and watching visual visuals. That's how we put together.

[Dan Soder]

So funny. That's how you do your tasting. Do we have any, do we have any experimental chemicals? Great. Now throw up those flares. Perfect.

[Shane Moss]

And I was trying to describe, I forget what it was, but I was like, you know that one part during this one aspect where it will look like this in like your mind's eye or whatever I thought was universal. And he's like, oh, I don't, I don't see anything. I have Aphantasia. And I'm like, what do you know? Have you ever heard of Aphantasia? So aphantasia is. This is what brought it up. It's when you don't see any visuals in your mind's eye at all. So he only sees them when he's on psychedelics, which is why he's so attracted to this and seeing these.

[Dan Soder]

So normally he can't think of it. Yeah, if he's on psychedelics, it'll be in his face.

[Shane Moss]

So like what we were saying about the inner monologue, people have that with their visual system where, where it's on a spectrum. So, so if you say like picture an apple, some people would see like a black and white apple, some people a two dimensional apple, a cartoon apple and then like a better cartoon apple and then a vivid apple. And I like, I see like, like an apple, like almost takes over my vision, you know, depending.

[Dan Soder]

I have a very, when I, when you said that to me, I have a very clear picture of like a water dusted apple. You know, like where they see at the grocery store with the little flicks of water on it, like the round thing like that.

[Shane Moss]

See you're, you're on the higher end of it then so you're more like Hyper Fantasia. I think a lot of comics.

[Dan Soder]

Hyper Fantasia is absolutely gonna be my screen. Hyper Fantasia is the 100%.

[Shane Moss]

If you start a van.

[Dan Soder]

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[Shane Moss]

So I found this out. I'm on drugs. I'm about to start the show and I'm like, oh my God, my visuals guy is blind in the head but

[Dan Soder]

he's almost like, you know, what's funny about that is he's like the blind guitar player from Roadhouse, where he's just like, whales. Like, he can wail on your visuals because he doesn't see it, because he has this, like, other thing of. It's almost like, you know, when they, like. I can't smell. I lost it during COVID It's just completely gone.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, you haven't regained it?

[Dan Soder]

No, I haven't regained it.

[Shane Moss]

I'm so sorry.

[Dan Soder]

It's all.

[Shane Moss]

Does it affect your taste?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it dulls it. Like a lot of hot sauce, a lot of ranch. I need stuff that actually, like, steps on my tongue for me to, like, really feel it. But I was telling Katie, it's. There's like, moments where I'll get, like. Now that the seasons are changing, I don't know if it's like a memory smell or whatever, but it's starting to be like, I'll walk and I'll get, like, kind of what you were talking about, about how I have, like, on the higher end. I can picture an apple. To me, it's like. I do see the edges. It was similar to, like, when I've seen documentaries where people talk about their site returning, where it's. All of a sudden it's, like, so big you can't see stuff, but you can see the outlines of it. Yeah, that's been happening recently with my smell, where I go. I can, like, take in the overall, but I can't smell specific what it is, but I go like, that's a season change. That's like a spring. It was when it got really hot outside and I walked out. I was like, oh, I almost. I, like, wouldn't say I smelled, but I would say that I took something in through my nose that made me remember stuff. And that was always what smell was to me.

[Shane Moss]

There's an interesting thing. I think it's called Charles Binet syndrome. I'm probably off on that. But Oliver Sacks writes about it in his book the Mind's Eye, I think. Great Neuroscientist. The movie that. Robin Williams, about Parkinson's.

[Dan Soder]

Awakening. Awakenings.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah. That He. He played Oliver Sacks in that mov.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And so he. He had this thing about people that go blind in. In life. Like, they weren't born blind. They'll. They'll often have these visual hallucinations because what happens is when a part of the brain kind of goes dormant, it's not receiving stimulation in the way that you when you park a car, you don't. You want to fire up the engine every few months to make sure stuff. The brain does a similar thing.

[Dan Soder]

Really.

[Shane Moss]

And so I wonder if that was

[Dan Soder]

my brain going, oh, the seasons changing. What did that used to smell like?

[Shane Moss]

It might be a memory of that.

[Dan Soder]

I don't know. But there are exercises and I just haven't sat down and done them where they really are. Like, sit there with, like. I think it's something like. Like a nail polish. It goes in order of, like, very, very hard and potent to, like, very soft. And then you're supposed to like, do the smells and go down and then try to repeat up to teach your brain how to take it in. It's like relearning how to smell.

[Shane Moss]

Interesting.

[Dan Soder]

Have you. I also heard if I take GLP ones, those things that they've been restoring people's smells.

[Shane Moss]

Not. And not to be a. A cliche, but have you had a psychedelic experience since this.

[Dan Soder]

No.

[Shane Moss]

Happened.

[Dan Soder]

I haven't.

[Shane Moss]

There's like. I mean, I'm.

[Dan Soder]

And I'm due for it.

[Shane Moss]

I'm actually a bit of a skeptic. For someone that does as many psychedelics as I do is the psychedelic community. They're like everything psychedelics. You know, it's gonna heal everything. But there is. It does. Certainly psychedelics create a lot of new connections that at least temporarily. And I always. Because, like, my. My bad foot, that. That. That has some, like, nerve damage and from when you broke it from the surgeries.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Shane Moss]

They just, you know, cut into so many tendons and everything that it's like half of the foot's like, sorted out. It's not a big deal. Like, I'm going rock climbing later today and stuff. And. And so it's. But I sometimes have a little bit of a limp and everything. And sometimes when it's. When it's worse, it can. I've. I've noticed when I've had an experience that there's like a little bit of a reset. Like, it goes back to, like, feeling like a normal foot for a while.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I haven't done mushrooms since 2019, so I'm due. I'm due for a big one. And I think I'm going to. I'm going to probably wait till the tour is over.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

What's the hours? Taped safely done.

[Shane Moss]

That's a good idea.

[Dan Soder]

I don't want to crack open and go. I don't like that whole middle chunk.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, my God. People always ask me if I trip on stage, like, during the show, there was. It was. It was always. When I started doing psychedelic shows 11 years ago, I had to have, like, in. In the. I had to have a question, a Q A in the show description of common questions, like, should I come on drugs? I'm like, ah, it's really meant to simulate a trip more than, like, be on psychedelics and things like that. But one of the common questions is, are you going to be on drugs while performing? And, like, I just don't know why that would be entertaining for. For people. But, I mean, it's fun when you hear, like, whoa, this band during Woodstock was on 20 hits of acid or whatever. But I don't. I wouldn't want to. It wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to see a band more if they're like, we're gonna dose tonight.

[Dan Soder]

I'd be like, ah, is it gonna be tight? I don't know if the music's gonna be tight. Well, there is. The times I have. I've done Ari's storytelling show in Montreal on mushrooms. And what was that like, good until it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, it's good until it wasn't. He was like, we're all gonna. Everyone on the lineup. It was at Montreal. He's like, everyone on the lineup's gonna do mushrooms. And I was there first because I think it was like one of my first years doing Montreal. So I ate two and a half grams and then I hung out.

[Shane Moss]

Okay. Yeah. That's not crazy.

[Dan Soder]

Not crazy. And I knew it wasn't gonna be crazy. I can handle under three pretty well, but it'll launch me for a little bit. I was like, all right. And then I remember smoking a joint upstairs in that. It was at Cleopatra's. That, like, strip club. Yeah. And then Ari comes into the room and he goes, bad news. You and I are the only two that did mushrooms. No one else wants to do them. And I was like, what? And then he's like, and the show's starting. And I was like, all right. He goes, but you're on mushrooms. Do you want to go first? And I went, yes. I want this over with right now. Which is the worst headspace to be in when you're about to have a six or seven hour trip.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then I went on stage and it was going well because I was telling about this story about doing mushrooms in high school, and I took them before my friend and he had to drive my car. So we're, like, talking about. It's almost like, can we get away from the cops. And I'm like, I'm pretty. I'm doing a good job. Laughs For a minute. Yeah, funny. And then one of the lights on the stairs went. And then it went. And then it went off and it went up. And then my whole entire attention was like, was that real? And people were like, was what real? Because no one saw it. It was one of the lights from under the stair so you don't trip. And I went, that light. Did that go off? And then it was. And by the end I went, ah. Anyways, the cops pulled us over. I didn't even have like a punchline for this. And then I left. Left and walked around Montreal by myself with. I remember I had an ipod at the time. Before iPhones.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

So no, it must have been like I had an Android. So it must have been like 2012, 2013. And I remember, like putting my ipod on and being like, I'm just gonna walk around.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And what you want to do. It was. It was beautiful.

[Shane Moss]

Of course.

[Dan Soder]

I remember listening to Phil Collins outside of a. Like a French church in Montreal and being like, one more night.

[Shane Moss]

This is incredible.

[Dan Soder]

I had a great time, but performing, no, thanks.

[Shane Moss]

That was my experience. Every time I performed, I was like, I want to be looking at trees right now. Like, this isn't. It's not like it really hurt the performance too much, but it was like I was just on autopilot and then I'm like zoomed out. I'm having like an out of body experience. Watching the stupid thing that I do for my life.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That's when you really realize. You go, we're all organisms and I'm a dumb one. What am I doing? I'm just talking. Talking for a living. This is so stupid. There was. Do you go. Do you do. Do you go to shows? Like music?

[Shane Moss]

Oh. Oh, some. Yeah. I mean, like. Like, I'll go to like. I. I went to this. It's called Pretty Lights Fest. It's like a kind of like an EDM fish thing where. That makes two days.

[Dan Soder]

That seems like a place to trip. I saw. I did truffles in Amsterdam and I went and saw a Pearl Jam. And that was the last time I want to trip inside.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Because I felt mushrooms are pretty intense too. I like to be kind of by myself.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

And being able to control the environment.

[Dan Soder]

I had to text while I was on it.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

What an unpleasant experience.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Looking at your phone and realizing what a phone is when you're on mushrooms.

[Shane Moss]

Oh. The last time I was on lsd. I was like trying to read and it looks like Sanskrit.

[Dan Soder]

And I, I texting Lou from the bonfire. I was like in the back of arena, tripping hard. And then he came to the back and I was like. And he's like, damn, you really are going through it. The thing with truffles that I didn't understand the difference between them and American mushrooms was that it hits a lot harder. The visuals are a lot more. And it burns cleaner. You like go up, but you go down. It's like quick to rise, quick to fall.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because by the end of the Pearl Jam concert, we stopped by a cafe to get a joint. My like friends wanted a beer or whatever and I wanted like a spliff. I wanted some tobacco mixed with some weed.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And I remember being like, I'm pretty normal again.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like I went to bed that night in our hotel room. Not. Yeah, I didn't feel like A lot of times when I do mushrooms, I feel like at night and the next morning the shell is coming back together. Like I'm shelling back up, like getting a harder, like letting all the thoughts out. But this, I was like immediately like, oh, I'm ready to go to bed.

[Shane Moss]

That's why on tour, like when I do these big psychedelic tours, it's the least amount of psychedelics that I do. You know, when I'm not on tour, I'll. I'll trip and like try to write about it and articulate the experiences so I have something to talk about when I'm touring. But when you're on tour. Yeah, especially the older you get, the more you realize, like, no, I want a few days afterwards to think about some of what happened.

[Dan Soder]

And yeah, I'm really interested to do a trip. You know, I think it might really just. Even if it's like less than 3 grams of mushrooms, just to be back again and just get launched and go like, oh, yeah, we're just, we're all just an organism on this rock.

[Shane Moss]

It's. There's. There's so many different. It's changing so much because of the decriminalization of, of things that you can get kind of specifically what you want. Like, like 2 CB is this research chemical that's especially good for something like a concert because it's just, it's mushroom visuals and mdma, like body and feel. But, but no head trip. Like, you're clear, you're clear headed.

[Dan Soder]

What? That's crazy. That would be. Both Pip and I are looking at each other like that would be fantastic. That does feel like at least we're at that part of science where you go, we can make some cool trips.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that happened. That was this guy, Alexander Shulgin, Sasha Shulgin. He was a chemist in the 50s, one of the legends in the field. He. He made a fortune making some fertilizer for Dow Chemical. And they're like, here's your own lab. Just do whatever you want. And he had had an influential mescaline experience, and he started tweaking the mescaline molecule, and he tried testing on animals and wasn't noticing anything.

[Dan Soder]

And he's like, meanwhile, those raccoons are just ripping their dicks off. They're like, yeah, dude, I won't dig through any trash. Holy shit, man. Holy shit. My legs grew out, and then my hands grew out. And then I understood why I have fingers. Like a raccoon being tested on with its fingers. It's like, what is happening?

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, but you can't see from the outside.

[Dan Soder]

Lab rat for that. Versus, like, you know what I mean?

[Shane Moss]

Getting tumors put in.

[Dan Soder]

You know, we're hit. This one with radiation, you go, no, but this one, you're like, brother, can I get a cigarette? That was unbelievable. So he got this whole lab to himself and.

[Shane Moss]

And he was like, we need to test it on humans. But would be unethical because even. Even with the best chemistry and neuroscience, you have no idea, like, what this new thing is going to do or what. What is the right dosage? And so he decided the only ethical thing to do was to test it on himself. Hero.

[Dan Soder]

Listen, this goes back to my thing that I'm preaching on several podcasts across the. Anytime I can get on a mic, I'm going to preach it. I've been shorthand terming it, calling it Dan's Law, but I think we should. Where I believe that if you work. If you own a company, you need to work there. So to me, this falls right in line. Yeah, if you're a scientist, better try it on yourself first. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna. Like, you can't be a board member of Dow and go, I. I like this chemical. You go, no, I need the. In the lab. That's like, boop. All right, here I go. That's what I want. Accountability, baby.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. And he took a lot for the team because he made over a thousand chemicals. A new. New psychedelics. And he tried. He liked one out of five,

[Dan Soder]

which meant four times. It was tough. Four times. He went, no, no, no, no, no. But that One time he had to go, okay, that's pretty crazy. Especially in the 50s where like people were sleeping in suits. Like you had to like wear a suit to go to bed. That's how dressed up they were. And like pinned up, being like, brother, I launched myself.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah. Well, this is in Oakland. So people were like a little looser.

[Dan Soder]

Shout Out. And soder family immigrated to Shout out to East Bay.

[Shane Moss]

And he. If he liked it, he would give it to his wife Ann. Cool. And then if she liked it, they would invite friends over for a weekend.

[Dan Soder]

That's the invite.

[Shane Moss]

They had these like Good Friday experiments. And then. And then they would all do this brand new psychedelic that they had never that. That he had just concocted for the first time him. And then they would write a paper about it and publish it. He did get let go from Dao.

[Dan Soder]

Too fun. We're letting you go for being too fun. What is it specifically about the Bay Area that there's so much psychedelic influence? And because you had Ken Kesey, right?

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Then you got this scientist and you have the Mary Pranksters. You have Hunter S. Thompson given the Angels lsd. I don't know, Barry, The Grateful Dead.

[Shane Moss]

Right.

[Dan Soder]

Just wonder if it's like, what is it about the Bay Area that just lends itself so much to psychedelics?

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, I mean, there's. There's good weather, first of all.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, well, it's great. It is. It's always a little foggy and then it gets a little warm. And then it gets goes. It goes back to being cold. It's never oppressive in any way with whether it was cold or with heat.

[Shane Moss]

Well, then there's like, there's a fair amount of intellectuals around, but it's always been like this alternative.

[Dan Soder]

There's also blue collar people. San Francisco at its best is mixed. At its worst, it's all tech people driving people out. But my God, my aunt grew up, you know, my dad's from Oakland and my aunt was born in Oakland and they all grew up in the East Bay. But my aunt became a drug addict later in life, but did a lot of psychedelics in the 60s because she was just a teenager and it was around.

[Shane Moss]

And she now people use psychedelics to quit addiction.

[Dan Soder]

Hers is on the way up. But she told me a story. She had a big fear of little pain people. She had like a very, very big fear of little people that I thought was so funny. I was close to her and I used to like go stay with her. It's my dad's sister this is after my dad's dead. So I had a really good relationship with her and she was very, very funny. She's a big lady, you know, former drug addict, she tell it like it is, but oh man, I'll tell you right now, my biggest regret was in middle school signing up for French and not Spanish because boy, I don't use French and I could really use some Spanish right about now. But thank God for Babel. You can do real learning with real results. You want to learn a new language. Probably not about memorizing grammar tables or topping a leaderboard. It's because Babel wants you to speak it out in the real world with real people. Babbel gets you there fast. Learning a language with Babel is all about small steps, big wins and progress that you can actually feel. Their bite sized lessons fit easily into your daily routine. And also just 10 minutes a day is enough to start seeing real results. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60 off your Babel subscription at babel.com forward/sodor that's getting up to 60% off at babbel.com forward/soder spelled B A, B D B E L.com forward slash soder. Rules and restrictions may apply. It's all about the money. Stop overpaying for wireless just because. Oh, that's always been what my bill, my bill's been. So I should just keep paying it now. Mint Mobile, they're here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at just 15amonth. All plans come with high speed data and an unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile's for you. Shop plans@mint mobile.com Soder that's mint mobile.com Soder upfront payment of 45 for three month five gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for three months only. Then full price plan available. Taxes and fees extra C. Mint Mobile for details. Huge fear of little people. Like to the point where they would come on tv.

[Shane Moss]

Meanwhile, you're a wrestling fan and stuff

[Dan Soder]

all over the place. She's watching Doink with all the little clowns. But I remember specifically us watching Austin Powers Spy who Shagged Me and Mini Me. She was like, no, no, no. Like not even. I mean I was laughing but like she was like, no, no, I'm not playing. I don't fuck with that Shit, I can't do that. And then finally, when I was older, she told me the story of her and her friend took 20 hits of acid in downtown San Francisco. And we're walking around and they went into a giant hotel. I think it was like a Marriott downtown. And they went up to the banquet hall and it opened up and it was a little person. And she was like 16 years old and like tripping. And they were all like talking to her and like grabbing her arms and she was like, no, no, no. And it just her up her up until the day she died. Like, she would not with little people in any way, like. And I was like, what are you talking about?

[Shane Moss]

They're small.

[Dan Soder]

What are you. You're big. What are you worried about? She's like. She called me Danny. She goes, Danny, I don't with that. I don't want to with that. And I always remember that. And then when she told me that story, I was like, well, yeah, you were tripping.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then an elevator opened up and everyone was half the size. You were Gulliver and Gulliver's Travels. Of course you were freaked out. And she was like, yeah, I don't know. But is that like. I don't know. I always. I think of her when I think of psychedelics in the Bay Area because she would be like. Because my grandmother had had her committed when she was a teenager for doing acid. She did acid. She got in trouble and she did acid alone in her room. And she came out and was like watching TV with my grandma. And she was like, whoa, you got snakes in your hair. My grandma was like, what? And she was like laughing. She's like, you got snakes in your hair. This shit's wild in my grandmother's from Oklahoma. It's like a button up conservative was like, oh, my daughter lost her mind.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And I think my. I think Aunt Karen told me she did like 15 or 16 hits acid. So she was up there for a while.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

If they drove her to the mental institution. And then like a day later she called and she was like, no, I was on drugs. Come, please come get me. This is crazy. And I was like, damn. Doing that's what it was like in the 60s.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like the regular community didn't understand what psychedelics were. Yeah, they're like, what do you mean you're taking acid? What is acid now?

[Shane Moss]

It's like.

[Dan Soder]

I think it's like, yeah, late 6, she was born in 50s. So it must have been like 68 to like 73 now.

[Shane Moss]

There's like frat houses doing mushrooms, like, instead of having kegs and stuff. And there's like, there's like the. Oh, you're like the mega mushroom person.

[Dan Soder]

Doesn't feel like it connects on any level. How are you taking that and not looking at Trump with his, with his bronzer on his face and not being

[Shane Moss]

like, yo, this is fucking me up.

[Dan Soder]

To think you take any sort of mushroom and look at a politician, like, any politician. Yeah, there are the peak of phoniness.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Do I get like, I couldn't imagine watching a campaign speech and take blue or red out of it, but watching someone being like, like, and I'm gonna do this and being on mushrooms and being like, yeah, yeah. Really? That is crazy. Do you take any offense to the micro dose culture?

[Shane Moss]

I don't take offense. I think, I think it's like oversold. I get that. It's funny. The, the word psychedelic. It's like Latin for mind manifesting. These are considered the most mind altering substances on earth, and that's why people had historically done them. Some people are like, oh, yeah, I want to take the most mind altering substance on earth, but just enough so it doesn't alter my mind in any way whatsoever.

[Dan Soder]

Can you. I don't want to do the thing, but I want to take the thing. Yeah, yeah. You know, that is. You know what's funny about that is we're both former drinkers. Heavy drinkers. Yeah. And that is always kind of how I felt about people who drink n a beers that don't have problems.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because you go, well, I need it to crutch an urge.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. I needed to overcome my disdain for the taste of beer to get the drunken.

[Dan Soder]

But for me, now it is like a crutch. Like if I'm at a baseball game, I have the urge to want to drink 20 beers, but if I find a Heineken Zero, I go, oh, and I take a couple sips. I go, that's fine. But I couldn't understand if I didn't have a drinking problem being like, like, give me the beer with none of the good stuff. Yeah. I'd be like, no good. The. The why N A's work is because you have one or two and you go, no warmth.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

There's no like.

[Shane Moss]

Right.

[Dan Soder]

The. The feeling of when you drink and you have a couple and you're like, I'm starting to feel it. NA's don't have that. So you have two and you go, I'm just drinking bubble water. Yeah, that's making my gut feel heavy.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, the whole. The whole cliche with the microdosing and the tech culture. I don't know. I was just, just. I was commissioned to. There. There's this show, Surviving AI I. Sometimes people ask me to put together some comedy on. On various science concepts and I don't know a thing about AI But I was trying to put together some material and it's this variety show. There's like a scientist, a tech person, a musician, and. And it's at this Frontier Towers in San Francisco. They. It's like this futuristic thing. Each level is like. Like, I think Ethereum has a level. Then there's an AI level. There's a. Like a longevity level that I saw like Brian Johnson's post.

[Dan Soder]

Wet Skinned Old Dudes. I'm gonna live forever. Oh, you creep me out, bro. You look like you just got.

[Shane Moss]

Do you know what forever is?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, you go, I don't think. Also, I don't want you to live forever. You stink. Have someone cool, you know what I mean?

[Shane Moss]

Like, I'm gonna live for a million years.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, dude.

[Shane Moss]

Sounds ridiculous.

[Dan Soder]

My old Japanese neighbor Albert in Tucson was cool. Why can't he live forever? Yeah, he'd bring me tea when I was hungover. You're a. I don't want you living forever.

[Shane Moss]

And I went. And there was a. I wanted to get a water. And there was a vending machine. And it was an AI vending machine,

[Dan Soder]

which I would love because I would love to. I used to love beating the shit out of vending machines when it took my money. Yeah, I'm glad it's gonna be feeling something.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like four times as wide as a regular vending machine. You know when airports try to be like, look at how fancy this vending machine is. Like an adult claw machine.

[Dan Soder]

And then it never works.

[Shane Moss]

It never works.

[Dan Soder]

Sfo, if you go to the Delta, I think it's terminal two. There is a vending machine with one of the claws that grab stuff and they have canned Gatorade. Yeah, I love canned Gatorade. It reminds me of my childhood.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I'm trying to. I always. When I'm at sfo, I'm like, maybe the machine will work this time and I can go get a can of orange Gatorade before I get my. It never is working. You put money in and it goes. And it just doesn't. You go, I'd rather just have an old one that had the swirls that would just drop it.

[Shane Moss]

Vending machines are pretty solid.

[Dan Soder]

We've got the tech. We don't need you to put AI into the vending machine.

[Shane Moss]

This had two screens on each side and then a glass window so you could see, like, a third of the stuff that was in there. And then it has, like, this AI lady on it. You're supposed to be able to talk to her or whatever. It's new. She's not quite working yet. You can't quite talk to her yet, of course. And then. And so now I gotta use the screen to find a dropdown menu. And there's no. Just like a 8 or something like that.

[Dan Soder]

Just give me a fucking number. A letter and a number.

[Shane Moss]

So I need to go, like, drink soda water. And then I. And then I look and there's things in there that I can't find on the menu because the menu is not all together yet. And then. And I'm like, all right, here, snacks. Fine, bag of chips. And then I order another thing and it goes. And to get this soda water, it

[Dan Soder]

turns into a person. It walks down the hallway and pours you a soda water. You're like, just drop it out your asshole. You're a vending machine. Just go, bruh.

[Shane Moss]

Here's a soda opens up like the Star Trek. Like that they got food out of or whatever. And then I grab the drink out and it knows my hand was in there and the thing's been. Then it closes and goes into trees. And then it does the classic thing where the bag of chips comes halfway. That's one thing to fix on vending machines.

[Dan Soder]

The only thing to fix. Stop letting it get stuck against the window where it's like, that's so funny.

[Shane Moss]

And theoretically, like, wouldn't you think an AI vending machine has all these sensors? It's doing its own inventory and ordering and restocking itself and. And stuff. And. And it doesn't even know that it has. And I'm trying to go on the screen to, like, ask for help. That's not an option. The AI lady has an Instagram.

[Dan Soder]

No, she doesn't.

[Shane Moss]

I can go on and message this,

[Dan Soder]

but you can't just. And then if you hit it, it would be a hate crime. If you, like, shook it like an old one, they'd go, please don't do that. I've asked you not to put your hands on me.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, well, instead you're like, oh, she's doing the best she can.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, my God, I should follow her on Instagram, really? See if you. They update the chip selection.

[Shane Moss]

I'm really hoping for. She Gets her stuff together.

[Dan Soder]

You're. The girl you're dating is like, who is that? You go, that's an AI vending machine. And she's going through it right now. She's on only fans. I support her. She goes, do you want to watch me open a bag? You go, is that cost sexual?

[Shane Moss]

That's what it's going to be. They're going to. They're going to, like, know what phone is nearby, know your preferences. And then put like, the big titty lady or a kid will walk by would be their favorite cartoon character or whatever selling you stuff. And then I still had to stick my hand into nothing so that it would close to go out and retrieve my third item. And I'm like, making fun of this thing. And then there's a guy in this tech building that comes over and I'm like, oh, is it his or something? He's taking this personally that I'm mocking this thing.

[Dan Soder]

I love that.

[Shane Moss]

Opens up the. He opens the thing up and gets me the chips and stuff. Like, it works perfectly as long as

[Dan Soder]

there's a human there.

[Shane Moss]

Like, it's like we're bringing back the, like, bellhop and elevators or something that used to, like, I don't need that button.

[Dan Soder]

You could save that. You could cut that out. But they are. They. They want it to, like, it's. It's almost like there's no practicality sometimes behind it. And that's what feels like you guys are spending your money. I remember when my mom would remember book fairs in elementary school where they'd be like, hey, we're gonna have a book fair so you can go down and buy a couple books. Or when Christmas was coming. I'm talking about when you're really little. And they'd go, there's a. There's a store so you can buy your family some Christmas gifts. And you'd be like, second grade. And you go down. You go, I get my mom this. I'm gonna get my stepdad. But I remember the first time doing that of going in there and being like, well, I want that. I want that. I want that poster book. And you take that and you go, well, I want that too. And then you go back to class and you go, I just bought all this stuff for myself with my mom's money. I remember learning that lesson.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

My mom was like, you're supposed to buy stuff for other people. That's what it feels like text doing right now.

[Shane Moss]

Oh.

[Dan Soder]

They go, I'm just doing this all for all. I want you Go. You're supposed to be doing this for the rest of us. So that it's. That it makes.

[Shane Moss]

It's real neat that they have this AI vending machine, man.

[Dan Soder]

AI vending machine. You go, that helps no one.

[Shane Moss]

And. And it was. And then I do the show in there with, like, a bunch of people that were, like, in the tower and, like, co in it or whatever. And. And. And the tech guy, like, brings up the vending machine. I started making fun of it, and they all fucking tightened up. These are the edgelords that think Elon Musk legalized comedy. By.

[Dan Soder]

By the way, do you see what Elon did? He brought a sink into Twitter. Oh, total own. What a.

[Shane Moss]

You got total own.

[Dan Soder]

The worst. The worst telling of a joke I've ever seen in my life was Elon Musk on Joe Rogan's podcast, trying to tell a joke. And you're like. Like, that's not a human being. Where he was like, there's two economists, okay? And they're. They're eating, and you, like, watch him tell this joke, and you go, dude, I'll pay. Give them all the money in the world to not tell a joke.

[Shane Moss]

You could.

[Dan Soder]

This guy sucks.

[Shane Moss]

You could have 10,000 comedians that you're paying, like, $200,000 a year to just write material for you.

[Dan Soder]

You have so much money. You don't have. But that's what it is. It's a lot of these guys. It's like. That's what's funny about the micro dosing thing where you talk about bros. Microdosing. You.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Well, a lot of your shitty behavior is because you're insecure. A lot of your shitty behaviors because you don't really know who you are, and you have this, like, idea of what masculinity is and what you're supposed to follow. And if you do these drugs, you're supposed to get scared.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because you're supposed to have a moment of not repentance.

[Shane Moss]

You're supposed to question the AI vending machine.

[Dan Soder]

You're also supposed to go, why do I need this? Yeah. Yeah. Every successful mushroom trip I've ever had, there's been a moment where I've been like. And then on the way down, I always. And I've. I've used this analogy a ton, but I liken it to the. The. The thing at the carnival where you get in and they strap you in and there's two of you, and they pull you down and then they shoot you up.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And that's what mushrooms is. Where you go, holy shit, I'm so scared. I'm so scared. And then you take a view and you go, look at the view.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then you go, I'm scared a little bit. Then you go back up. And every time you go back down and go back up, you go. You enjoy it more.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because you go, oh, I remember doing it at Coney island in Brooklyn, and they pull you down and I was going, like, the first one, I was like. And then the second one, you're like, oh, shit, look. I think you see Staten Island. And then you're like, oh. And it's. You're supposed to go back down to the ground and go, I learned something.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

You're supposed to take a little bit of mushrooms to remain a Antagonistic dickhead.

[Shane Moss]

It's just a bunch of control freaks with, like, you know, addicted to placebos. Like, look at Brian Johnson just sitting in the dark, like, eating placebos all day.

[Dan Soder]

Drain my blood. You're like, dude, I get. If you're Keith Richards and you're trying to come off heroin, and they go, dump your blood for new blood. That way the hair. And you go, oh, maybe that makes sense. But, like, just sitting there, taking little pills, being like, am I younger? That just always, to me screams mental instability or mental. Like, something's wrong.

[Shane Moss]

And it's not even scientific. So they're just finding whatever scientist will validate what they want to believe. But you can cast a net wide and far in. You know, tobacco companies would do this to find, like, the scientist that would take enough money to be like, well, we don't fully know the thing.

[Dan Soder]

The whole.

[Shane Moss]

Basically what these guys are doing now to have, like, a scientist that will tell them that they'll. They're going to live forever.

[Dan Soder]

And a dumb person like me reads that a scientist is helping them, and I go, oh, there's a scientist helping them. But it was. It really was like, find the. The tobacco companies finding them being like, it doesn't cause lung cancer or. Or they find a scientist that signs off on anything.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's. You're always going to be able to find a disgruntled person or someone willing to take enough money for something.

[Dan Soder]

But even the guy you were talking about that created in his own lab.

[Shane Moss]

Alex Shulgin.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, Alex. He had to work for Dow.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

To make something for dow. That DOW was like, yo, this is going to be a forever chemical that's in the water forever. And he's like, okay, does it. And he goes, can I Have my own lab so me and my wife can have our experimental parties.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But that's, that really is the unfortunate part of it is a lot of times these, these like, these people who aren't using drugs for good reasons, they're using it for nefarious reasons, have the money. So then they get these people who do know the chemicals to go in and you go, it's just, it's all up. But the thing that always upset me about micro dosing was it never seemed to take a lasting effect as a 3 gram dose would or a Terence McKenna dose of mushrooms.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Large doses, an experiential change that you're having so the chemicals go away. But it was those insights that you had during the experience. Whereas microdosing, like, what's the difference between that and just like taking an antidepressant or something if you're taking it every other day anyway. And now your brain's gonna acclimate anyhow.

[Dan Soder]

And it reminds, it's like, to me, it's the difference of like taking a cruise to visit places or just going and living in a place.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Where you go. Yeah. Well, I went and lived in Barcelona, so now I call it Barcelona because I was there for too long. Versus like you take a cruise and you stop and you go, we were there for a day.

[Shane Moss]

I wouldn't even say it's cruise level. I'd say it's looking at a couple pictures and thinking that, yeah, you know, Barcelona now.

[Dan Soder]

Because I do think, I really do think the thing about psychedelics that I've always enjoyed, even if I don't enjoy it in the time, is that is it humbles you.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Where you go, whoa, there's so much bigger shit than what we are.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And I think that is good for humanity to go like, holy. We're a tiny part of a big thing. Because a lot of what marketing now is you're the only thing that matters. You're the only thing, you're living your experience and you go, that's unfair to society.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. I'm, I'm pretty concerned about the human ego. So there, there, there's this, there's this study that's really st me. It's, I think it's called a book called the Social Brain or something. But the idea is, is that, is that our brain, the way our brains evolved, we were, we were like never thinking alone. And so the brain was always like assessing what the brains in your tribe also knew. So, so you'd be like, you know, you might not know exactly how to build a shelter as well as this other person. But you have access to that information. And so then you're. You subconsciously, if you're around someone that has the expertise in that thing, you overestimate how much you know, because your brain conflates the ability to access information with already having it.

[Dan Soder]

That's very interesting to think. Like, I've heard this guy talk about cars for six months in depth. I can fix cars.

[Shane Moss]

And they test it. So, like one of my favorite studies, they. They go. They make up a thing. They and. And tell people. They go, we. We have this. We have. This scientist discovered some mineral that glows. They've learned everything about it. How much do you know about how this mineral glows? And people are like, I think I have a handle on, and move back.

[Dan Soder]

I'll tell you how this motherfucker glows right now.

[Shane Moss]

Which is related to this dunning cougar effect, which is that we basically. When you know nothing about something, is the most. The most amount of confidence that you have, because life's just too full of information. So our brains just assume we know enough about whatever to get by in life. And then once you start learning, you go, oh, I don't know anything.

[Dan Soder]

And that is why your first open mic, you can kill and then spend the next two years eating. That's exactly what happened.

[Shane Moss]

And it takes 20 years before you have the same level of confidence as you had at that first open mind. That's exactly because you realize just how hard it actually is. Truly.

[Dan Soder]

I remember doing a first open mic and being like, I got these three ideas, ideas, and I'm gonna talk about them and make them funny. And I did. And then I was done. And I was like, three minutes. And I went, damn, I think I know how to do stand up. And then I spent just after that just, like, bombing. I probably, like, legitimately bombing for like, two years.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Just being like, I don't know. I don't know. And then, like, learning, like, oh, you gotta learn how to write a joke, and then you gotta write a joke that's true to you. And then you got to deliver it. Like, you're not saying something you wrote. And it is. And then 20 years later, you go, go, I think I got an idea. And then you go out there and it's funny, and you go, yeah, it really is. It's like a long process.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. And everything's like that. So. So the experimental condition in this is that they said the exact same thing. They go, scientists have discovered this New mineral, it glows. It's confidential. How much do you know about it? And people are like, what do you mean? I don't know anything about it? It's confident. It's all the same information, really. But because they said it was confidential, they're like, I don't know. Like, I can't access that information.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

And so the idea is, is that our brains are conflating the ability to access knowledge with already having it. So what does that mean? When we have the Internet in our pockets all of the time, we're all just going to walk around thinking we fucking know everything already. Because you can look it up. You mistake it for, like, having already looked it up and doing the research.

[Dan Soder]

I'm wondering of what the imprint is of learning it and retaining it, versus just the idea. Because I think just in. What I've noticed since smartphones have came out is my ability to retain information is much lower than it was before when I just had a flip phone and I'd read a book or I'd be on. Read a magazine on the subway, and then I would, like, read an article and then I would just, like, know about this subject versus now. I'm scrolling. And I read four different things on Reddit in an hour. And I got none of it. I got absolutely none of it. I got. I got like, little bits and pieces.

[Shane Moss]

You can read like a mediocre book and be like, oh, my God, I've just learned all of these things and on, like, one subject that might take you a month to read or whatever. And. And meanwhile, you can. You can scroll through Instagram and I'll feel like, like, oh, I saw this thing on. I saw a chart and I saw these. I. I just learned so much. And it's like, I didn't retain any of that.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

At all.

[Dan Soder]

It's like taking a cup to the ocean and you're just like, trying to get a cup of water and it's just like splashing out to where every time you pull your cup, you're like, there's nothing in there. Versus, like a sink where it's just dropping. And you go, and I waited, and now I got a full cup. It's just. It just feels like the overload of information washes everything out.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And you go, I can't fucking hold on to any of this.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

That's why I'm one. Like, it's interesting to watch your special again. Watch Second Dose on YouTube. We'll put the link right here. But it seems like from Watching your first special, you're back to finding the enjoyment of writing jokes about stuff.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like, it doesn't feel as empty as that Comedy Central present.

[Shane Moss]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, now. Well, part of it, too, is that. Is that I always wanted to, like, get out of my comfort zone, because I had such a narrow comfort zone when I started. When you speak about storytelling, I remember when I first, like, I'm a storyteller now. When I first started telling stories, it was the scariest thing in the world. The idea of. Of like, well, this is a really good story if people are into it. If they aren't, I'm bombing for 15 minutes. I was used to, like, I can bomb on a joke. I have eight more. Then I just pull out my best joke after that and just reload and

[Dan Soder]

shoot, reload and shoot. And a story. You're right. Also, a lot of times with stories, you might forget a integral part that you don't realize the audience needs. So you're just telling a story, and then they're just lost.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

What's worse than bombing is having a crowd lost on a story where they're like, I don't even know where we're at. Right. Yeah.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

That's what I learned by doing that story about getting robbed. Because I'm like. All of a sudden, I'm like, no, it's funny. I have change in my pockets. I'm like, I didn't explain the whole bank part. And then I. You're like, ah, fuck. And then you're lost.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

So now with storytelling, you feel a lot more.

[Shane Moss]

Yeah. And then. And then trying to take, you know, like. Like, these studies that I can't stop from, like, I'll tell anyone that will listen. Like, they just really interest me. And it's what I find myself thinking about. Going like, now how do I make that funny, though? Is really, really challenging. And so I like putting together. I have a new show, Myth Understandings, that I'm putting together. That's all about kind of human storytelling and why we evolved to create myths and how they were useful through time and how now that we have more access to reality and information, the myths didn't go away necessarily, and how it just kind of transitioned into disinformation and things. And so these are just the things that I just genuinely love. Love talking about and. And thinking about and want to. You know, anyone that will listen when I'm at a party or whatever and then just being like, can I make that funny? Yeah, it's really challenging.

[Dan Soder]

I'VE always loved. It's very similar to Colin Quinn and what he does subject that, that's, that's

[Shane Moss]

like probably the closest thing to what I'm trying to do, right?

[Dan Soder]

He just goes, oh, the constitution's interesting. Why don't I break it down with jokes for an hour?

[Shane Moss]

Yeah, Yeah, I love that. That's the sort of thing, and I

[Dan Soder]

think that's an evolution for a community comedian to, to hit that. I think when you hit that as a comic, you're, you're, you're, you've stepped up from beyond the. Like, you ever have the doorknob jam and your dick's out? You know? Like, I do love those. I love, I'm always gonna love jokes, but I do like watching comedians that I like especially have that evolutionary jump where they go, well, now I have a whole subject and I break it down with like a ton of great jokes. And you're like, this rules.

[Shane Moss]

But now I'm like doing regular old. Like, if I had to do five minutes, now I'm like, oh, my God. That's a little out of my comfort zone. Like, I can get on stage, stage for 90 minutes no problem.

[Dan Soder]

You're just.

[Shane Moss]

No problem.

[Dan Soder]

You want to do a full 24 hour set. No one wants that. I can do that. And I go, hey, listen, I need you to do a six minute. Guess that. And you go, I'm gonna bleed out of my ears. I'm scared. I'm so scared.

[Shane Moss]

It's literally like that.

[Dan Soder]

That's fun.

[Shane Moss]

I think that I'll, I'll probably do. I did like one weekend of regular stand up last year, but now that the specials are. Oh, I might do. Do a little more stand up.

[Dan Soder]

Do it. I think you just around. Why not? Yeah. See what it's like. Come on back.

[Shane Moss]

I still, I still make some notes. Yeah, I got some jokes.

[Dan Soder]

You're always hilarious. And one of my favorites to watch. Shane Moss's special second dose on YouTube. Out now. Watch it. Follow him. Go to his website, see where he's performing. He does. If you enjoyed any of this conversation. He's so funny and intelligent and just. It's great to reconnect with him. Shane Moss. Right, Right there. Thank you for watching.

[Shane Moss]

Thanks, buddy.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, dude. Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay. I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana Give it a whirl.

[Shane Moss]

Love ya.

[Dan Soder]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it.

[Commercial/Advertiser Voice]

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[Shane Moss]

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[Shane Moss]

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