138: Friction Maxxing with Johnny Pemberton | Soder Podcast | EP 135

Summary

Soder Podcast EP 138: "Friction Maxxing" with Johnny Pemberton Release Date: June 9, 2026 Host: Dan Soder Guest: Johnny Pemberton

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, hilarious, and honest conversation, Dan Soder sits down with comedian and actor Johnny Pemberton to riff on everything from weddings and neighborly relationships to the underbelly of show business and the current state of stand-up comedy. The episode’s title, “Friction Maxxing,” stems from a central chunk about intentionally making life a little harder to regain some patience, sanity, and authenticity in the digital age—a theme that informs a lot of their reflections. Throughout, the pair mix sharp comedic banter with real talk about the entertainment business, crowd work in stand-up, conspiracy theories, and the systems that shape comedians' lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Weddings, Marriages, and The Cost of Traditions

• Johnny shares his take on long-term relationships and marriage, mentioning he and his wife have been together so long, they've "been to people's weddings at, then they got divorced." (02:12)
• Both discuss the stress and social pressure of traditional weddings.
• Quote: “Anytime someone's like, oh, we're going to have a wedding, I'm like, don't do it. Because it's so much money. It's so stressful because the wedding isn't for you, it's for everyone else.” – Johnny (03:58)
• They agree elopement or simple ceremonies (like Johnny’s in Hawaii) are less stressful alternatives.
• Timestamps: 02:09–04:42

2. Navigating Neighborhoods: LA vs. NYC

• Johnny describes the grounded, community vibe of his LA neighborhood, where he knows his neighbors and sees "real people with regular jobs.” (07:07)
• Dan explains how NYC apartment life is more transient and anonymous, with neighbors constantly coming and going.
• They riff on the differences between LA and NY quality of life—yard space, patience, how waiting in lines has broken people, and the unique annoyances and charms of each city.
• Notable Moment: Dan’s bit comparing leaving an NYC building to leaving “a spaceship.” (08:55)
• Timestamps: 07:05–10:17

3. Friction Maxxing & Patience in Modern Life

• Johnny introduces "friction maxxing": intentionally making things harder (e.g., asking for a contractor instead of Googling, avoiding phone distractions) to build patience and reconnect with the real world.
• Quote: "Friction maxing is when instead of making it easy on yourself, you make it the hardest way possible." – Johnny (12:25)
• Dan relates, saying that’s how he lives his life already. They joke about “raw dogging” life—living unfiltered—or as Johnny coins, “friction maxxing.”
• Timestamps: 12:11–13:33

4. Adapting Video Games to TV: Fallout and Fan Expectations

• Johnny describes getting cast in the Fallout series and his process immersing himself in the video game, playing 20–30 hours to get the vibe before filming (14:11).
• They reflect on how adapting video games to shows means walking a fine line between honoring the lore and making the material work for a new medium.
• Quote: “There's no amount of Fallout I could play that would...legitimize my Fallout fandom...there's people who played that game for thousands and thousands of hours.” – Johnny (14:50)
• Both note how fandoms can be intensely passionate, sometimes ruinous, but in Fallout’s case, mostly positive.
• Timestamps: 14:11–16:08

5. Outrage, Online Conspiracies & Manufactured Anger

• The discussion pivots to collective online anger, referencing Sonic movie redesigns, Lola Bunny’s “de-sexualization,” and conspiracy theories.
• Quote: “Everything’s a work now. They're all trying to get you mad so you pay attention. Because what sucks is—a lot of people realized people pay attention when they're mad.” – Dan (23:06)
• Johnny introduces the concept of "poisoning the well" as a CIA disinformation tactic, applied to things like the Epstein case—taking something true and adding crazier elements so it can be dismissed.
• They joke about middle schoolers using CIA techniques (32:12–32:41).
• Timestamps: 21:04–34:39

6. Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber) and The Dark Side of Genius

• Johnny and Dan dive into Kaczynski's backstory, government mind control experiments (MK Ultra), how some of his predictions about technology and society proved eerily correct—but not his violent methods.
• Quote: “If you read his [manifesto]...some of this lines up just about technology, about the eroding of society, about how it will take away our basic functions…” – Dan (33:58)
• They highlight Kaczynski's connections to academic and financial elites, some of whom were later named in the Epstein files, and muse on the government’s role in creating unstable geniuses.
• Timestamps: 33:12–37:03

7. Indie Filmmaking and The State of the Industry

• Johnny talks about his new indie film Mermaid (dir. Tyler Cornack), praising the freedom, creative control, and necessity of independent production as big studios decline in resources and interest.
• Both agree the industry's golden age is over and corporate consolidation plus lack of money have hurt creativity.
• Quote: “The studios. I don't feel bad for these companies...let’s make the studios’ kids have to make the movies now.” – Dan (39:43)
• Timestamps: 37:11–41:48

8. Hollywood, Nepotism & Deals

• The pair dissect profit-sharing deals (e.g., Todd Phillips on The Hangover, South Park creators) as a path to creative and financial independence.
• Timestamps: 40:12–41:33

9. Stand-up Comedy: The Scene, Crowd Work, and Pandering

• Extended riff on how comedy has become “crowd work-ified,” with comics using audience interactions for social media hits.
• Quotes:
  • “There's some shows, this is like when you don’t know you got fat and then you see a picture and you go, oh, oh, I'm so fat now.” – Dan (51:21)
  • “I hate it. I fucking hate it the most. I hate it so much.” – Johnny, on forced crowd work (51:35)
  • “Johnny Pemberton and I…do us a favor. Go see movies and don't go to comedy shows.” – Dan (55:35)
• They bemoan the rise of “reactionary laughing," pander-comedy, and the tension between authentic, artful stand-up versus service-trade performance.
• Timestamps: 41:48–66:51

10. The Origins and True Nature of Comedy

• Dan references Cliff Nesteroff’s book The Comedians: Drunks, Thieves, Scoundrels and the History of American Comedy, explaining how stand-up’s roots are not artistic but transactional—entertainment for the mob, for supper clubs (65:16).
• Quote: “I think the biggest trick the comedy industry ever did was convince comedians that it was art. …It’s not. It’s a service, it’s a trade.” – Johnny (64:25)
• Timestamps: 65:16–67:39

11. Touring, Road Work, and Finding Your Audience

• Johnny admits he's done less stand-up than most comedians with his years in the game, having split his time between acting and stand-up. He expresses mixed feelings about touring, how it’s more fulfilling now that fans come specifically for him, but road gigs can be draining, especially for experimental comics.
• Quote: “If you're doing weird stuff to people who are wasted and got comp tickets, they just don't give a shit.” – Johnny (61:43)
• Timestamps: 59:23–64:10

12. Finale: Mutual Respect and Special Shoutouts

• Dan and Johnny exchange genuine praise for each other's work, citing Son of Gary (Dan’s HBO special) and Mermaid as standouts.
• They promise to regroup when Johnny’s next special is finished and joke about playing Fallout for a thousand hours together.
• Quote: “I think Son of Gary is one of the best specials made in the last 20 years.” – Johnny (69:43)
• Timestamps: 69:24–70:37

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “There should be like a rebate. Like a ten year rebate or something.” – Johnny, on attending weddings that don't last (02:39)
• “Friction maxing is when instead of...making it easy on yourself, you make it the hardest way possible.” – Johnny (12:25)
• “I feel like the entertainment industry, especially in the last 20 to 25 years, really got like...well, last six years. I mean, last six years it has taken a dive.” – Johnny (38:56)
• “Everything’s a work now. They're all trying to get you mad so you pay attention.” – Dan (23:06)
• “If you read his [Kaczynski’s]...manifesto...some of this lines up just about technology, about the eroding of society...” – Dan (33:58)
• “Go see movies and don’t go to comedy shows.” – Dan (55:35)
• “I think the biggest trick the comedy industry ever did was convince comedians that it was art.” – Johnny (64:25)
• “We are truck stop blowjobs.” – Dan, on the service nature of comedy (64:37)
• “I think Son of Gary is one of the best specials made in the last 20 years.” – Johnny (69:50)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:09] — On long-term relationships, weddings, and divorce statistics
• [07:05] — Contrasting neighborhood life in LA and NY
• [12:11] — Introduction to Friction Maxxing
• [14:11] — Johnny on prepping for Fallout
• [21:04] — Social outrage and internet culture
• [32:12] — CIA “poisoning the well” and disinformation
• [33:12] — Ted Kaczynski, MK Ultra, and Epstein connections
• [37:11] — Indie filmmaking, Mermaid, and the current industry
• [41:48] — Hollywood deals, stand-up, and industry decline
• [51:16] — NYC stand-up scene and crowd work
• [64:25] — Comedy as art vs. trade; origins in mob supper clubs
• [69:24] — Closing mutual respect, specials, and upcoming projects

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Summary Tone & Language

The conversation is honest, direct, and conversational, loaded with comedic banter, inside-industry references, and a healthy amount of cynicism about the show business machine. Dan and Johnny riff freely but always circle back to the realities behind the comedy—the need for patience, authenticity, and creative independence in a rapidly-changing world.

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For New Listeners

If you’re new to the Soder Podcast, this episode is a perfect blend of playfulness and deep industry insights, featuring two comic minds unfiltered. You’ll hear why “friction maxxing” might save our attention spans, why crowd work clips are a plague on stand-up, why the business sucks but making things with friends is still possible—and why, no matter how much change hits, real art and comedy find a way through.

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Find more from Dan Soder at dansoder.com and follow Johnny Pemberton’s work including his film Mermaid and upcoming special.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Hey, good morning.

[Narrator/Host]

Dale traded up to Geico commercial auto insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most.

[Dan Soder]

Yep, they sure are.

[Narrator/Host]

We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs all in one place with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down.

[Dan Soder]

It's all right.

[Narrator/Host]

We're so far up here.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Look at me.

[Dan Soder]

Take a deep breath.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm good.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So good.

[Dan Soder]

Get a commercial auto insurance quote [e-mail] and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico get that Amex gold car ready. I'm way too tired to cook tonight. You read my mind. With the gold card, we can get up to $120 a year in statement credits. Are you feeling the Cheesecake Factory? Five guys. Either of those sound good?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yes.

[Dan Soder]

Which one? Both pay with the gold card to receive up to $10 a month in statement credits at participating partners. Uncover more ways to reward [e-mail] explored gold enrollment required terms apply. We're taping the special next week. I'm very excited. For those of you who have tickets, I'm very excited for the show. But then in July, I'm back on the road writing a whole new hour, building it up. I'm very excited to do that. That's one of the fun parts of doing stand up is just trying new stuff and hoping that it works. So check me out. I'm going to be at the comedy vault in Batavia, Illinois, July 9th through the 11th. New York Comedy Club in Stanford, Connecticut, July 16th through the 18th. And then in Montreal, I'm doing Club Soda on July 25th. All these tickets [e-mail] and then the full list of clubs for the rest of the year is on this poster. Go to at Dan Soder on Instagram or go to Dan Soder.com and see where we're going. But I mean, we're talking about everywhere. Albany, Baltimore, Spokane, Portland, Hartford, Connecticut. All the big dogs. I'm very excited. I'm. I'm going to be in Calgary, in Winnipeg, all these places. Coming to run and build a new hour. Dansoder.com for all those tickets. Thank you for watching the podcast. Are you married?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I have a live in wife.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, she lives in.

[Dan Soder]

She lives in.

[Johnny Pemberton]

She stays there.

[Dan Soder]

How long have you been married?

[Johnny Pemberton]

For a while. Yeah, we've been together a long time. It's been together so long, we've Been to people's weddings at. Then they got divorced.

[Dan Soder]

Really? Yeah, I've had three of those.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Dude, that's.

[Dan Soder]

How old are you?

[Johnny Pemberton]

44.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I'm 42. Mid 40s is where you start seeing them come. Like weddings that you remember having a hard time getting to.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Divorce.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. Like, how dare you. There should be like a rebate. Like a 10 year rebate or something.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Like you send in a coupon and you're like, I'm going to need Delta miles. Because I, I bought a plane ticket.

[Johnny Pemberton]

The destination wedding show. I think I've never been to one.

[Dan Soder]

Really?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I mean the one I went to that was the most destination is still together. So I'm very happy about. We went to Guatemala, but it was, it was a beautiful wedding.

[Johnny Pemberton]

She Guatemala.

[Dan Soder]

No, they're both white people from the United States.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, wow. How dare they?

[Dan Soder]

How dare they. But it was, I didn't realize it was like kind of a, like a, like not a, I guess a cottage industry where people are like, do you want to go to dangerous Central American countries and get married?

[Johnny Pemberton]

My friend got married in Iceland, but that was like an elopement. And he just had like, you know, his parents, her parents, and like a few, you know, really close people.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that was cool. They had a beautiful wedding at like an old church and it was like really great.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Your dollar goes far. Yeah, it goes real far.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I think that might have been one of the reasons because it was a beautiful wedding and it wasn't that big, but it was like, definitely. It was the most destination wedding I've ever been to. What was your guys's wedding?

[Johnny Pemberton]

We went, we eloped. Went to Hawaii.

[Dan Soder]

That's great.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It was the great. I mean, it's the greatest idea we ever had. Anytime someone's like, oh, we're going to have a wedding, I'm like, don't do it.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because it's so much money. It's like so stressful because the wedding isn't for you, it's for everyone else.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's like your parents and stuff. I think it's a bad idea.

[Dan Soder]

We keep joking around that that's like, what are we doing? Let's just go to court. Let's just go to the courthouse. Because we haven't like go to the courthouse.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Go to Hawaii.

[Dan Soder]

It's the idea.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Party later.

[Dan Soder]

That's what it is. It's the idea of like setting up the whole wedding.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

It's like, oh, it's daunting. Especially both of us are busy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So you're like, are you doing it?

[Dan Soder]

We haven't started even setting.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Don't do it. Honestly, don't do it. Because you can have a party for a third the cost. It's more fun. You're already married. You don't have to do all this stuff. Everything about it is. Everything about it's better.

[Dan Soder]

I've also heard in New York City, if you say it's a wedding party, oh, they will charge you 30% more,

[Johnny Pemberton]

of course, because they know.

[Dan Soder]

That's what Liz from the seller told me. She was like, don't ever fucking say you're doing.

[Johnny Pemberton]

No, say you're having like a fucking, like a bereavement.

[Dan Soder]

Say like people are happy. Whoever died.

[Johnny Pemberton]

We're doing a pre bereavement. My dad is dying and he's a prick. Yeah, he's. We hate him.

[Dan Soder]

People are looking real forward to this guy going in the dirt.

[Johnny Pemberton]

If you could serve his food cold and make sure he gets cold food.

[Dan Soder]

But also we're going to play a lot of songs you might hear at a wedding, so don't be alarmed.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, it's because he used to be a music producer. So he. He's reminded of the money he lost. We're trying to push him into the grave.

[Dan Soder]

And he's also behind some of the biggest hits at weddings, like the song Celebrate.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But he didn't get the money. He didn't get the money. No, he didn't get the money.

[Dan Soder]

We want him to die.

[Johnny Pemberton]

We want him to remember.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I would. The gang if I. That would be a stupid thing that I would do where I would like meet a party event space and go, this is our, our like wedding party. And they'd be like, that would be something that I would give up that info.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

That I would tell a smarter friend and they'd be like, you would. Why would you say that?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I have a friend who is a pretty famous actor in England and whenever he has someone come over to his house to do like work, he has to hide.

[Dan Soder]

Really?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because if they know, it's like, oh, oh, it's you, mate. It's like they're gonna. Oh, money bags.

[Dan Soder]

Roger. Sir Roger Dalton. Well, what is it?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Sir Timothy Jason James iv.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, your father was a duke and his f. A duke. I'm charging you eight time. Where does. Does he have like a hiding room or does he just like keep going into a different room as they walk into.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Gosh, I didn't think about that way.

[Dan Soder]

Cuz I would be. I would be like, I would. If it happened enough. I would have to set up a place where I go. I'll just be down in the. In the panic room.

[Johnny Pemberton]

A panic room? Yeah, the contractor panic room where you hide from.

[Dan Soder]

Contractor's gonna fi. The backyard. You're like, I'll be in the panic room. Let me know when he leaves.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I hate it because I, like, I. My mailman knows me, and it's like, it's cool, but it's also kind of like.

[Dan Soder]

That's old school. Yeah, but you're right. He does. He can go through your stuff.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He can. Yeah. I think it's good. I think it's kind of a good thing. It's kind of like. Like having someone has your back in a way, you know? I don't know how to describe it. It's good and bad.

[Dan Soder]

I would. It does give the feeling of a neighborhood. Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I live in, like, a real neighborhood, though. For real?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Los Angeles, right?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. It's, like, very neighborhoody. Like, I know my neighbors are regular people who have, like, normal jobs and stuff.

[Dan Soder]

That's cool.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's kind of great.

[Dan Soder]

This is, like, I don't know any of my neighbors. Yeah. And we've been here for a couple of years, and it's like, they leave, and then what happens is sometimes the maintenance guys will be fixing the locks so you can walk around their empty apartment, which we've done on a couple of things.

[Johnny Pemberton]

They tell you like, hey, Dan.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, they like me.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Hey, Dan, this place is empty. You want to sniff around?

[Dan Soder]

Well, I'll be like. I'll be like, hey, is it cool if I go look around? They're like, yeah, like, don't do anything. But then you go. And you go, holy. This is nicer. What we've realized is we are the tiniest apartment on this floor by a lot. Like, the way our. Our apartment is constructed with, like, the hallway all the way down, and then it opens into a room. You go. This is, like, secret family apartment where they go. Just walk in. The kitchen's all the way back to the right. There's a room right there. Don't make any noise, because we went to the one over here and. And it was like, the sweeping views, how beautiful the living room was. I was like, oh, this is way nicer.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is it. Is it rent control or is that a thing?

[Dan Soder]

Not rent control. There are rent control apartments in New York, but this one isn't. This one is big. Is a big company that owns it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't understand anything about New York living. I feel like it's like the most daunting thing.

[Dan Soder]

It is. I can't imagine you survive it. You don't, like, thrive in it. When I go to la, Pimp's nod in his head. But it's true. It's like, you go to la, you guys have backyards.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God, it's so nice. It's ridiculous. Like, I was living here for about a year for the first season of Fallout, and I was. I stayed three different places, and one of the places I say was the high rise. Sure, I was going nuts because you wake up and you have to go, I need to go outside immediately. When I wake up, I have to go. I have to go outside. Doesn't matter what the weather is. I got to go out there, put

[Dan Soder]

my feet in the dirt, get grounded here. You have to go through a. It's like leaving a spaceship. You have to go through, like a decompression chamber. And then they're like, release them to the outside. That's what it feels like. But the one thing I will argue New York over any other city is the availability of anything you need at any hour. Yeah, it's just a giant city. And also, all the best stuff is here.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It is a better place. I do say that a lot, that New York is quite literally better.

[Dan Soder]

It just. We have, like, the premier Broadway show. Like, you want to do Broadway, you want all the concerts to come here, all the big bands come here. Coffee, restaurant.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Coffee. Best coffee, best restaurants, best restaurants. You just.

[Dan Soder]

You go and you eat and you go. This. This place is unbelievable. And not a lot of people know about it. What's funny about New York is, and I'm sure LA is a little bit like this. A restaurant will get written up in, like, the New York Times. That wasn't supposed to. It just happened with this sandwich place that I like. And then you show up and you look at one of the employees and they go, we got a write up. And you're like, because, bad. And then you have to, like, wait for the people to not go anymore.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't do that anymore. I can't. I can't wait.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, you're like, I need to go to a place.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like, I have a coffee shop. My neighborhood. If I go by and it's busy, I'm like, oh, I'm not going there. I just don't wanna. I just hate it. Something about waiting in line now, I

[Dan Soder]

think it's that that's something that's broke humanity.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Our patience is absolutely zapped from Instagram. Patience Though, I think it's patience. I think like young people especially. I mean, I don't know, I'm not young, but a lot of the bitching.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You're not young?

[Dan Soder]

No, I'm very old. I'm 70. I lied to you. You go 70, 70 years old, shades

[Johnny Pemberton]

are drawn, you got to have like no sun.

[Dan Soder]

And then you see it. I'm all fucking old and shitty. But like, I watch videos and they're like, oh, we can't afford houses. It's like, yeah, either can we? Yeah, but Also, you're like 21. Chill the out. We're in our 40s, still waiting. Like we've been waiting in line for houses. A lot of us being like, all right, any day now. And the 21 year olds are like, I just got here. And you're like, you. I don't. Yeah, I don't have time for that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I kind of go back and forth on it because I also feel like the whole patience thing is. I don't know, I feel like it's like it moves around. It's not like exactly. I, I feel like I'm pretty patient.

[Dan Soder]

Do you remember the DMV before phones?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I haven't been the DMV in probably

[Dan Soder]

since before cell phones.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I got, I, I've, I. What do you call? I tricked the system. I somehow was able to renew my license for the past like 15 years.

[Dan Soder]

Really?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I have to go now when I get home for the first time since I moved to la.

[Dan Soder]

But you have a phone. You just go look at your phone.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I have to get my picture taken. See, check this out. My photo on my id.

[Dan Soder]

I want to see this.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Ancient.

[Dan Soder]

It's an ancient photo because you're a young looking guy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Photo, man.

[Dan Soder]

I mean, that's crazy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's from 2005. Isn't that crazy?

[Dan Soder]

That looks like a missing child.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It does.

[Dan Soder]

It looks like you showed back up. We found you, John. Daddy's going to the DMV for the first time in 15 years.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I know.

[Dan Soder]

It's easier because you have a phone back in the day when you had to like sit there with a magazine and you'd wait.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I still do that now.

[Dan Soder]

That was in. That was impatient. That was patience. It's like waiting and being like.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You ever do that though?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You do something called friction maxing. You hear about this?

[Dan Soder]

No.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You're gonna like this. Friction maxing is this. Obviously it's an online idea. Like everyone, everyone's maxing. Everything's maxing.

[Dan Soder]

Everything's max 80s again.

[Johnny Pemberton]

We're 80s.

[Dan Soder]

Everything's to the max.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Friction maxing is when instead of, like, making it easy on yourself, you make it the hardest way possible. So if you need it, let's say you need, like, a roofing contractor. You don't Google that. You ask someone, and they're like, oh, I know a guy. You're like, okay, you check him out. You just do, like, everything. It takes the longest way as opposed to the easy way.

[Dan Soder]

I'm kind of thinking I might be into friction, Max. I think that's how I live my life.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Me too. I'm into friction maxing now. Like, if I go to the doctor's office, I'm like, I'm not looking at my phone the whole time. I'm just gonna look at people now.

[Dan Soder]

They call that raw dogging, right?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Raw dogging. Yeah. I mean, I like friction maxing better.

[Dan Soder]

Friction maxing does sound better, because raw dogging is sex without a condom. And that's the coolest thing in the

[Johnny Pemberton]

world, which is also just known as sex.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like, for thousands and thousands of years, it was called sex. And now we're like, oh, it's. That's raw dogging.

[Dan Soder]

I know.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's just. That's just what you do.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. No. Using a condom is the weird part.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

You're putting plastic on your penis. It's like rubber on your dick.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Top hatting. I'm. I'm top hat.

[Dan Soder]

Turns regular sex back into sex, and then if you use a condom, you're talking.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Are you top hatting?

[Dan Soder]

Oh, you're top hat. Yeah, Fancy boy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm a top hatter. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Natural tip of the top hat. You pull it off.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Dip in the cap.

[Dan Soder]

I filled it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

The cap. Wag of the finger.

[Dan Soder]

When you're on a show. Like, did you play Fallout?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I didn't until I got cast.

[Dan Soder]

And then when you got cast on the show, do you go, what a cool. What a fun. Yeah, that's so fun.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It was cool. I mean, I've seen the game a bunch because I had. Back when I had roommates years ago, I. They played the game. I would watch them play it. So I was pretty familiar with, like, the way it looked and, like, so

[Dan Soder]

you kind of knew what the feel of the game was. Post apocalyptic.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. And also the humor of it too, kind of.

[Dan Soder]

When you do the show, did you. How much of the game did you play before you filmed the show?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I played probably, like, maybe, I don't know, 20 hours, 30 hours of Fallout 4.

[Dan Soder]

Great.

[Johnny Pemberton]

In a hotel room in Brooklyn.

[Dan Soder]

That's Very fun. That's very fun. And then is there stuff like when you play Fallout and then you film the show, is there stuff that comes up in an episode where you go, I know that. I played that in the game.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, I guess so. There's, there's so many Easter eggs. It is. I mean, everything's an Easter egg.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That's what you have to do to do something. To turn something from, like, a video game to a show. You have a fan base that's going to be like, I need to know that you know, the important. So that's what I like about Easter eggs.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. Also, it's like that thing where there's no amount of Fallout I could play that would be legitimizing. Would, like, legitimize my Fallout fandom. Like, I just can't. There's people who played that game for thousands and thousands of hours who know they get in arguments about different stuff. And I have, you know, I mean, I just can't. I'm not even gonna try to do that. So it's better for me just be like, basically, no.

[Dan Soder]

Have you bumped up against the fan base in any way like that?

[Johnny Pemberton]

They're so cool.

[Dan Soder]

They're so cool about it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Nicest people, those.

[Dan Soder]

Sometimes that can be a real, like, I'm a wrestling fan, so I understand.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

So I understand. I, I, I know how bad it could get because I am one of them. And you, like, see it, and sometimes you're like, chill the fuck out. Sometimes fans are the most critical of other fans, but sometimes you have fans of something that ruin it for the fan base because they're so. It looks like that's the representation of the fan base where you go, no, it's just a. Who also happens to be a fan of Fallout.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's just so many fans that kind of run the gamut. But, yeah, it seems like.

[Dan Soder]

Have you had just positive interactions, though?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, totally positive. Everyone's been really positive.

[Dan Soder]

But it's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think it's because it's a, you know, it's a good show.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. It's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

If they ruined, if they ruined it, they would have been just, you know, put on a, A pike or something like that.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, dude, that is, that's where it's like, God of War is. They're making God.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Right, Right. I think it's, I think it's.

[Dan Soder]

They're, like, filming it right now, I think. Or did they.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is it. What's his name? Kratos. Thanos.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, Kratos.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Kratos.

[Dan Soder]

Whoever they cast the guy who plays Kratos, and you look at it and

[Johnny Pemberton]

you're like, is someone famous?

[Dan Soder]

I think you would know him. He's an actor that's not, like, off the top of the head, famous Dave Bautista. That'd be sick. Dave Bautista is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, he's great, but also he. I think he's too. He's too known. Yeah, no, like, you want someone who's

[Dan Soder]

less known, you need him. Right on that cusp. Ryan Hurst. Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Great.

[Dan Soder]

But you see that. You know that guy? You've seen that guy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, that man is. I always see, is a beard.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that man is just a beard.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That man's been on an island.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Look at him. That beard is cool as.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is that a Sons of Anarchy guy or something or what?

[Dan Soder]

I don't know. Can you look up? I think he was in Sons of Anarchy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

No disrespect, Ryan, but I don't. I just don't.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, he was in Sons of Anarchy. Who do you plan anarchy? He played. He's like a big character. What. What's funny about that is, as someone who's played a ton of God of War, the first time he says, boy, you're gonna be like, you need I. What's crazy is you're going against a voice actor who's really good. So what do you take from some skinny guy?

[Johnny Pemberton]

You know, all those guys are super deep voices. You have a deep voice.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that's. That's. I mean, ideally, that's who I'd get to play is like a cool.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Right.

[Dan Soder]

Greek God or Roman. Whatever is Greek or Roman God. But I think when there is something made. Like your character is in the video game. No, it is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

None of the characters are.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, yeah, I forgot.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Except for maybe a few NPCs. Like, there's a guy.

[Dan Soder]

Which. That makes it easier, I think.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. Because it has to be. Because that's the nature of the game is there aren't. There's NPCs and stuff you encounter, but there's no. Like, you play as a character. You make.

[Dan Soder]

Make your own loadout.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So there's no. Which helped a lot because they didn't have to emulate anything existing. They just had to get the world right. And the characters are like, does this character exist legitimately in the world? If it does, it's like, you did it. But otherwise, it's like, you know, hey, everybody.

[Dan Soder]

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[Johnny Pemberton]

you're like, oh, I'm so pissed. Yeah, his hair goes left. His hair goes left. It's like that is left. Like no, when you're looking at it, that's his laugh. Not the laugh you look At.

[Dan Soder]

Now I'm out of it. Now I can't watch it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Nope, her breasts aren't big enough. Her breasts are too small.

[Dan Soder]

That was. Remember when they got mad about Lola Bunny not having giant titties?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Who's Lola Bunny?

[Dan Soder]

From Space Jam. When they redid space jam with LeBron,

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't know, they got like, I'm not really looking at a bunny's tits as much damage. Sorry.

[Dan Soder]

Well, I'm sorry.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm not really into bunny's breasts.

[Dan Soder]

Sorry. I'm a furry. Then you look over the corner, you see stack. See stacks of rabbit heads.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's a guy on a raccoon costume

[Dan Soder]

masturbating, like, oh, no, sorry. His pleasure holes open so he can show me his little red rocket.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, God.

[Dan Soder]

But, yeah, they were like. When it was during the pandemic that Space Jam came out with LeBron and they were, like, mad about it because they said they made her too athletic.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, God. I get. Wait, which one's the.

[Dan Soder]

Which one was the first one?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Okay.

[Dan Soder]

From when we were kids. Jam with Michael Jordan.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That right. Was.

[Dan Soder]

They sent her the second one and they were like. Immediately they were like, what? Where's your tits, dude?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, she doesn't have much of a

[Dan Soder]

guy treated that is out of his mind that he was like, flowless tits are gone.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Kind of a hero, though, too.

[Dan Soder]

He's like, I don't think you could ever argue you love tits more than that guy. I'm gonna say it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Everyone's thinking it. Excuse me, council member. Where are our breasts?

[Dan Soder]

Where are Lola Bunny's big, beautiful bunny tits?

[Johnny Pemberton]

This is the Bronx City Council, sir.

[Dan Soder]

I don't know. But it's also like, remember when they made. Where they changed? When they did Sonic the Hedgehog and they.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Soder]

People lost their mind with his eyes and his teeth.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I heard a theory about that. That they did it on purpose to get press. Oh, because there was such an outrageous.

[Dan Soder]

People got so fucking mad.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So pissed. But everyone knew about it. Like, I knew about it. I'm not like a huge Sonic person or anything, but I heard about this. Like, what are they so pissed about?

[Dan Soder]

You're not in the Sonic lifestyle.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I know. I didn't roll in here.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that's what they did. They turned them from the left to the right because they were like, but you think so do you think they on purpose make the one on the left?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, that's a pretty deep conspiracy, but that would be cool, right? You know what I mean? Like, the whole idea of doing something

[Dan Soder]

I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it makes more. It makes more how we see everybody move. Now that makes sense.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I think, like, 20 years ago you'd say that, and you'd be like, what. What a weird thing to do. But now you go, absolutely. They. Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Everything's done to, like, the whole P.T. barnum. No, publicity is bad publicity.

[Dan Soder]

Everything's a work now. They're all trying to get you to work. They're trying to get you mad so you pay attention. Because what sucks is a lot of people realized people pay attention when they're mad.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, yeah. Because it gets you in a higher emotional state.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So you're like, I saw somebody sweating.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I saw somebody online saying, like, there was a certain point where they went, why are we selling pleasure? Let's sell anger. Anger gets people way more on board. And it gets way people. As opposed to, like, man, enjoy your life. Like, enjoy your life. Have a slight. Like, they used to. Like, I. I know this is like, a lot of what used to be isms, but it is true. They would be like, hey, if you work hard, you get a nice house. You can enjoy your life. And now they're like, everyone's against you. And you're like, oh, kill everybody. But it does. It gets you to pay attention. We both know about the Sonic movie because people were mad about the team.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So pissed about it.

[Dan Soder]

Never saw the movie.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I didn't see it either. I should see. It's supposed to be great.

[Dan Soder]

Really? Is it one of those ones where they go, there's actually a message, and then you find out it's about pediatric pediatric cancer. The whole time where you go. I thought it was about him collecting rings and.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Have you ever seen Criss angel live?

[Dan Soder]

No.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I saw him live about. I mean, forever ago. This is in Vegas, dude. It is rough. Because he brings out a cancer kid, and you're just like, oh, God, I'm. I'm a couple beers deep. I came to a magic show in Vegas, and then we got a. We got a cancer kid out here.

[Dan Soder]

So it just doesn't

[Johnny Pemberton]

like being the

[Dan Soder]

dangerous, spooky magician and then bringing out something that's actually dangerous and spooky.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like, you go, what's wrong? Can your mind not handle this? Kid has stage four lymphoma, and he's

[Johnny Pemberton]

wearing a Batman mask, and it's supposed to be his kid, but I don't think it is because obviously his kid's not doing three shows a night for you. Don't Know you don't.

[Dan Soder]

Because I'm so magical. I pull the cancer from him and put it back in.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God. I put it into my motorcycle collection. You got to walk by on the way in.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Is that what you do?

[Johnny Pemberton]

You walk by a collection of all the motorcycles that are increasingly not drivable. Like, they're like, you know, a Batman style where that doesn't move.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. You're like, that's not street legal. That can't be street legal. I would love to go just go to Vegas and do street legal or not. With his motorcycles.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God. You could do it with. Is Gary Oldman. Because they're friends. Oh, is that funny? Gary Oldman and Chris angel are buddies.

[Dan Soder]

Like best friends or just like beer? Because I feel like sometimes you find out that, like, Ben Affleck and Jimmy Kimmel drink together or, like, hang out, you go. But Chris angel and Lieutenant Dan is pretty crazy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Lieutenant Dan.

[Dan Soder]

Gary Oldman. Oh, no. Gary Oldman.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's Gary Sinise.

[Dan Soder]

Gary Sinise. My bad. I'm sorry.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Gary Oldman.

[Dan Soder]

That was our Commissioner Gordon. I'm sorry. White Boy Day.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's okay. It's okay, Dan.

[Dan Soder]

Pretty good.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's okay, Dan.

[Dan Soder]

It's pretty good. Old man. You've been working on your own.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That was my Sinise.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, no.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That was an old. We thought it was old man.

[Dan Soder]

I thought that was your old man.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's my. I can't go on the Apollo mission. I got. I got sick guys.

[Dan Soder]

You know what? Framed differently, like seeing people in public.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm seeing my. Here's my old man. What the. I don't know.

[Dan Soder]

It's pretty good.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I can't do it.

[Dan Soder]

It's pretty. Honestly, I like cold. I like cold. Trying celebrities.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I can't do Old man. He's a chameleon.

[Dan Soder]

My old. Yeah, he is. Because my old moon would be. It ain't White Boy Day. But that's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is that.

[Dan Soder]

What's your romance?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Which is the greatest character of all time? What's his name in that character? Something young blood.

[Dan Soder]

Something sliced. Look up true romance.

[Johnny Pemberton]

God, that's the best character.

[Dan Soder]

He's got his eye all up, dude.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I would. That would have been me if I was that age. I would have done that character.

[Dan Soder]

I was Brad Pitt in that movie. Just a stoned roommate that lives with the guy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Going through such a great character, too. That was like the ultimate. You hear people say about Brad Pitt, right? He's a character actor who just happens to be.

[Dan Soder]

His name was Drixel Spivy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But wasn't his real name, though, was that. I'm thinking I'm confusing him with the character from. What's it called? The Professional. Yeah, what's his name plays that. That white dude who's got the dress.

[Dan Soder]

I got. I got it open right. I got IMDb open right here.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Same as like. Like Mickey two steps or some like that.

[Dan Soder]

From what movie?

[Johnny Pemberton]

From the Professional.

[Dan Soder]

And that movie is. That movie is real tough to watch when you get older because you go, oh, this is kind of about feeling.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Have you seen the French version of it? Leon.

[Dan Soder]

Leon the Professional.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. It's a little difference. Even more than that.

[Dan Soder]

Really? Yeah, like full romance.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because it's the French version. The French, like, yeah. You know, her age.

[Dan Soder]

There is beauty. Beauty existed every age.

[Johnny Pemberton]

She's so beautiful. We are.

[Dan Soder]

We're Stansfield. Is Gary Oldman's character Stansfield?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Does he have, like a nickname?

[Dan Soder]

I don't know, man.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He's got like a nickname like Mickey

[Dan Soder]

Youngblood or Stan Stansfield. So I feel like he's also. What's funny is I've smoked so much weed that when you ask me from a movie from the 90s, I go, it's kind of in there. I remember Natalie Portman was around my age. But, yeah, full on. Have Leon in the girl.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's just a different cut of the movie. I think there's more of the romance. I don't know. I haven't seen it in a long.

[Dan Soder]

One of those movies that ages poorly and then like doing press tours where you go, well, I just don't think we knew that that's how that was gonna go.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I also. I mean, I can't even say it. I don't know if it ages that poorly. I feel like it's one of those things. Where did they have a romance? Because he was kind of a simpleton.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I think he's like. More like he was like a shut in. And she was actually. I mean, I'm talking about what I want. The American version is like her child, like, wander and things, and her, like, trying to learn about the business and he realizes how bad it is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Maybe I'm forgetting stuff.

[Dan Soder]

He's a protector more than.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He's like a. Like a killing savant. Yes, like asexual killing savant.

[Dan Soder]

She teaches him how to be a human.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But I wouldn't be surprised in the French version if they're like. But they are in love. They want to have. Oh, she is a new bile.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You know him.

[Dan Soder]

She's a new B. Young Girl, man.

[Johnny Pemberton]

What's her name?

[Dan Soder]

I'm kind of uncomfortable with this, guys, especially with the Epstein files out and stuff. Stuff. I just don't know.

[Johnny Pemberton]

All right, I heard about that.

[Dan Soder]

Oh yeah, someone told me about that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh my God. You know, I just remembered.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, those came out.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's like a New York thing, right? Jeffrey Epstein, he's from here.

[Dan Soder]

That was the funny. The Gym Downey, the Jim Downey on Conan's podcast where he goes, Jeffrey Epstein, the New York financier. Like that was his.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Really?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. It's so funny. It's what I drew. Downey on Conan is one of the best episodes of a podcast I've ever listened to. He just goes through all these old jokes that he wrote for Norm and all this shit. But yeah, he does the. He goes, Jeffrey Epstein, the New York. The New York financier. Oh my God. It's summer. Time to travel if you want to. Or just stay at home and learn a new language. Traveling would probably make it easier. But if you want to learn a new language, try Babel Babble. Just 10 minutes a day can help you start having real conversations in as little as three weeks. Phrases you use, ordering dinner, asking for directions, talking with locals. It's built for real life. They have. Language lessons are quick, practical and built by more than 200 language experts. And unlike cramming before a big trip, Babbel fits into your actual schedule whenever you can use them. Babbel's award winning app has sold over 25 million subscriptions and is backed by a 14 day money back guarantee. So if you got summer travel coming up, now's the time to start so you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now, Babel's offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to babbel.comsoder that's Babbel. B A B B E L.comsoder for up to 60% off, rules and restrictions may apply.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm here on the job site with Dale who's a framing contractor.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Hey, good morning.

[Narrator/Host]

Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most.

[Dan Soder]

Yep, they sure are.

[Narrator/Host]

We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs all in one place with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down.

[Dan Soder]

It's all right.

[Narrator/Host]

We're so far up here.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Look at me.

[Dan Soder]

Take a deep breath.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm good. So good.

[Dan Soder]

Get a commercial auto insurance quote [e-mail] and see how Much you could save. It feels good to Geico. It is crazy to. If you have any family that goes, I don't know what the Epstein files are.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I wonder if I do at this point. God, I think there's probably some people out there who don't know about it. Right. Because they're like, their window of information is just everywhere. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because it's been underground, being pushed by like Qanon and then like 4chan and HN and then it became real. And then people are like, oh, you think people have it in their minds? It's like, oh, it's just Internet.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's like Pizza Gate.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. To them, it's part of it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It is.

[Dan Soder]

Turns out, might not be as false as people are saying.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Isn't that crazy? It's like everyone has egg on their face now. About that.

[Dan Soder]

It's exactly what we were talking about with the Sonic thing. It's just like a way worse evil version of that where you go, I bet it is true. I bet there is parts of it that are true. So that they can go, that was a crazy conspiracy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Well, there's a CIA technique they use called poisoning the well.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Where they take something that's true and add a bunch of crazy psycho into it. So everything associated with that seems like it's nuts. And it worked. It worked with that.

[Dan Soder]

I would have loved to have known that technique in middle school. I could have made myself sound so much cooler.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's so many CIA techniques where it's like middle school kids be like, yes, okay.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Ergo, Prop. Hochter. Prop. Straw Man. Well, teacher. Well, teacher. Actually, what happened was my father. I don't know, but that.

[Dan Soder]

It really is true. I think I was dosed to learn your, like, the MK Ultra.

[Johnny Pemberton]

So if I miss one day of school, what if I miss a week? That way it really sells the.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I'm gonna date the whole bus on a version of this. So this is my group that I'm working on. They're like, you MK altered your whole bus.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You're like MK Ultra.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that's the big one.

[Johnny Pemberton]

The ultimate.

[Dan Soder]

Which was really just like, mind.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, yeah. Because Ted Kaczynski was a. He was a victim of MK Ultra.

[Dan Soder]

Have you been looking into him recently?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I know all about him.

[Dan Soder]

Are you really not Ted? Are you really? Are you for real?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. No. Did you watch?

[Dan Soder]

I've been reading a lot about him. So if I'm. I'm gonna go into some stuff where you're like, if you don't know about them, we're getting into a place where I think.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I know it wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong.

[Dan Soder]

But also not bomb people. You should not send people. I just want to. That is a statement from the Soda podcast here. Podcast. We do not approve of sending bombs in the mail.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That is a felony.

[Dan Soder]

Felony.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think that's.

[Dan Soder]

Don't hurt anybody.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You're gonna get mandatory minimum on that.

[Dan Soder]

But if you read his.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I haven't read the manifesto, but I do.

[Dan Soder]

There's parts. Parts that you go. Some of this lines up just about technology, about the eroding of society, about how it will kind of take away our basic functions and make us reliant on this thing.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then you see there's a lot of people that were on Kaczynski's list that he sent bombs to that were on the Epstein files.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh.

[Dan Soder]

That were collaborators with Jeffrey Epstein and a lot of. And you go, wow. Okay. In fact, one of the guys was a professor at Yale and Kaczynski sent him a bomb that blew out his right eye and like took out his hand. He almost killed him. And he just recently was a Epstein co conspirator that had to leave Yale because of his ties with epine. And you're like, dude, this Kazinski was doing this in the early 90s. We didn't even have dial up yet. And this motherfucker's like, nah, this is going to be a problem.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And he was a virgin.

[Dan Soder]

Was he really?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, yeah. You don't know about this?

[Dan Soder]

I. That's. That's. I did not know.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Have you seen the miniseries they did?

[Dan Soder]

No.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because it's good.

[Dan Soder]

Is it?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, I think it's true. It's not like, obviously he's not. They don't make him a hero.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But they do explain everything. And they go into the MK Ultra of it all. So if you think about Ted, what he did, he was a victim. The government is essentially responsible for him.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because they created him.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. With the MK Ultra stuff. They made him lose his mind. And he is brilliant.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

So he has his bro. Also. I'm not like a Kaczynski fan. I'm just like, it's crazy that there were parts of his that you. You go, yeah, it's not wrong. But also he was taking wide stabs at what technology was going to be. But yeah. The government created this insane genius.

[Johnny Pemberton]

They created him. So.

[Dan Soder]

And then he had to go live in the woods because he was so paranoid.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But he never stops the bomb.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think Definitely. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Unfortunately, good stops.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. I think it does. I think it's a thing where that, like, that much buildup.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is going to. It's like a bomb in your pants, essentially. And he had to get it out,

[Dan Soder]

and he needed to send it to someone.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He just couldn't get it out alone. And so I wonder if over.

[Dan Soder]

If, like, a lady. A lady laying in on a mattress with a sheet in this cabin is like, ted, will you come back to bed? He's got those. He's like, yeah. He's like, I do want some. And then, like, six people are alive.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You know, there was something where. I mean, I don't know how true it is, but in that miniseries, he makes, like, a handmade gift for some woman he knows her child. And he sees the kid, like, loving this electronic thing. It's probably a narrative device. It's probably not real, but sure. Just that thing.

[Dan Soder]

I am gonna watch. I'm not gonna lie. I know you came here to promote something, but I'm gonna watch the Kaczynski miniseries now. I'm gonna look it up, watch Mermaid,

[Johnny Pemberton]

and then watch that.

[Dan Soder]

Watch Johnny's movie Mermaid, then go into Kaczynski.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's a Kaczynski tie in. It's a great appetizer.

[Dan Soder]

It's a nice amuse booth, actually, kind

[Johnny Pemberton]

of is in a weird way, because the character I play in that movie is sort of. He's like a Kaczynski Florida man.

[Dan Soder]

Okay.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But not as, you know, not as violent.

[Dan Soder]

Is this a movie that you made your, like, with a bunch of other people, or is this an indie film?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Indie film. Written directed by Tyler Cornack. He's a great writer, director. He did a movie called Butt Boy. Have you seen that?

[Dan Soder]

No.

[Johnny Pemberton]

The title is. Is, you know, indicates something else.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But it's a hilarious, amazing, incredible indie movie he made about six, five, six years ago. Super funny, just very dark.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I was a big fan of that movie. And we became friends and he wrote this movie and we made it and it's. I love it. Yeah, it's super great.

[Dan Soder]

Do you think that's where the industry is going, is just people like, I'm just going to go make it and then.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Absolutely.

[Dan Soder]

We talk about this all the time. It's such like, you make something and then the big companies go, like, give it to us. Yeah, we've got money. Give it to us. And then it always. Something always happens. But I feel like indie movies, indie music, indie comedy specials, everything is going the way of. There's Too much bureaucracy with the big corporate.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Not enough money in the studios anymore either.

[Dan Soder]

It's all going to their CEOs. They're not like, oh, yeah, putting money back into the company.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's absolutely terrible. I even talked with a woman who was like, sort of on about to retire from, I think, Lionsgate or something like that, and she's like, it's the worst it's ever been.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. No one's positive.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[Dan Soder]

Kind of deserves it too, because it was very opulent for a while and they really were feeling themselves telling people how to behave and act and vote. And then you go, you guys are a business that is dependent on people wanting you around. And I don't know, I just feel like the entertainment industry, especially in the last 20 to 25 years, really got

[Johnny Pemberton]

like, well, last six years. I mean, last six years it has taken a dive. That is.

[Dan Soder]

That's what I mean. I'm saying, like, I think the last six year dive is because of the 25 years of like, hi, yeah, I'm Anthony Hopkins. Here's how you recycle. And it's like, why are you telling me how to live? You play other people. I think people just got sick of the entertainment industry. And we're watching the fall off, definitely

[Johnny Pemberton]

from COVID for sure.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Consolidation.

[Dan Soder]

No one had anything to do. So they were watching everything.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And from the strikes.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And the strike's not really resolving anything. The strikes, like, oh, how about. Can we have two more dollars?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, okay.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, we did it.

[Dan Soder]

It was so funny watching them be like, no AI and the studios were like, we're using AI. And the actors were like, that much AI?

[Johnny Pemberton]

A little bit, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And they're like, maybe. But I don't feel bad for the studios. I don't feel bad for these companies. I. I feel like. I feel like the true thing should be it. Let's go full nepotism. Let's make the studios. Kids have to make the movies now. Like, you work there. Your dad runs 20th Century Fox. You're the director of their big. You're doing the new Bond movie studio. Bezos's daughter has to do the make. You have to make the Bond movie.

[Johnny Pemberton]

They could do that. They could also just make everyone. No one gets paid. You only get back in points.

[Dan Soder]

That's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's the case. Then, like, you know how Todd Phillips did that with the hangover?

[Dan Soder]

Did he?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, because he. They didn't want to cast like any of those guys. They didn't want to cast Zach or Bradley or Any of the people he wanted, they. The studio did not want them. But he was like, these are the guys. I have to have them. I will. You can pay me the minimum. Minimum rate, and I'll just take more points. This is. I mean, this. I think this is true. It sounds true. And they're like, okay, fine. And, you know, he kind of won that one, didn't he?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That's like what Ryan Coogler just did with Sinners.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Okay.

[Dan Soder]

There's always like that thing where people get mad and they go, like, why is he doing it? But south park set themselves up years ago. I believe this is true. But they did something like where they got the George Lucas deal on their merchandise, where they were like, we want 90 cents of every dollar less up front, more later.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because you're banking on it being a success.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. And I think the reason they went with Comedy Central was. Comedy Central was like, we'll give you that merchandise deal.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then south park merchandise became like, and now they have their own studio. Now they can make their own. Now that. You know what I mean? It's like they freed themselves pretty great. That's the thing that always is. Like, if you ever want to make something, you have to find a certain freedom that can let you make a movie. Like Mermaid.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, well, we have, you know, we have a financier. I mean, it's an indie movie.

[Dan Soder]

So do the financiers come around the set?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, but he's great. Our executive producer is wonderful guy. He's like a DP himself. And so, you know, I always just

[Dan Soder]

wonder if it's like very rich people who are like, I wanted to make a movie.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, sometimes it is. I think it's all over the map. But sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Sometimes they have great, great taste. And they like someone's work because he. He financed Tyler's other movie.

[Dan Soder]

Okay.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And so it's just, you know, getting bigger and bigger.

[Dan Soder]

Movies like that works out great.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's two million dollar movie. That's our budget.

[Dan Soder]

That's great. Which is. The guy goes, I got that. You want to make that? And then you go, yeah, we can make this movie. Have you ever been on a set? Because you've been on some big shows and big movies like 21 Jump Street. Have you ever seen a financier come around and go, like, oh, this guy doesn't realize that he's only here because of the money?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, well, those studio movies is different because those are like, you know, they're like producers from the studio there.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Those guys. I don't know. I don't think I've ever been on something where it was like that. I mean, I've heard stories about it.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But I don't think I personally, because

[Dan Soder]

I'm always fascinated by those people that are so rich that they don't understand that their help isn't needed or.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, yeah, like, get out of here, man. Just enjoy it later.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I mean, we never really had any. We had, like, a lot of, like, business people around. Billions.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But they never, like. They were always, like. They treated us like they were at the zoo.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Really.

[Dan Soder]

Just, like, walk around and be like, whoa, this is pretty cool. And sure, you, like, they, you know, poke you and, like, oh, so you. You play one of the finance guys. I would fire a guy like you, like. Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's always a big laugh.

[Dan Soder]

Yes. Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You have to laugh with them. You went, huh?

[Dan Soder]

That is what. That's the Hollywood phoniness that I've absolutely participated in. You gotta do a little bit like, oh, yeah. And then I walk away. Your face drops. You go, all right, well, I'm here for another time.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Those guys, if they do that, those guys are never that cool or effective. Some of the biggest producers I've ever met were, like, nicest, most chill dudes ever.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Remember meeting Neil Moritz once in a makeup trailer, he said, hi, Johnny, I'm getting a haircut.

[Dan Soder]

Like, you troll the world.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. You've made the Fast and Furious movies.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And he's, like, such a nice guy.

[Dan Soder]

That's always what I'm interested. Like, it's funny to me when friends of mine have had success that they can touch these people that are, like, very successful. And you're like. Like, tim Dillon's a guy where you're like, I can't believe all the people you've had lunch with.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Right.

[Dan Soder]

That have probably affected world policy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. Like arms dealers and stuff.

[Dan Soder]

Exactly. That's what. That's the joke I always make is when you. When you hang out with Tim, you meet someone that's, like, despicable, but they're nice. Where they're like, I'm Anna, child soldier. My family put children soldiers. That's one of the jokes I always make because it is always someone like that where they're like, I'm from Dow. And you're like, oh, God. So you pour forever chemicals in rivers.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And they're, like, still doing it.

[Dan Soder]

But I love the way Tim just tells it. Like, it is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I love your Podcast. You're so funny.

[Dan Soder]

But that billions had a little bit like that. Like, you be on set and they'd be like, I. I was talking to this old guy one time, and he walked away. And one of the creators was like, you know, that's the guy that shorted Enron. And you're like, whoa. I would have had a way different conversation if I knew that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I would have been like, how the did you know?

[Johnny Pemberton]

He doesn't want you to know that, does he?

[Dan Soder]

No. He was trying to talk to me about, like, metal sighting. I was like, what's this guy's fascination? We were, like, looking at this building, talking about metal sighting. I was like, yeah, I don't know. That middle sighting. Look. He's like, do you think he could come down? And I was like, I don't know

[Johnny Pemberton]

what they call an autist.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, maybe. And then he, like, saw ahead. He, like, touched a computer and was like, yeah, it's gonna crash. But that's always amazing to me that where there's, like, people that do crazy but then have just, like, social lives where they're like. Like, all this Artemis people now are, like, coming back, really, from the. From going around the moon.

[Johnny Pemberton]

They're getting laid now, kind of.

[Dan Soder]

They're, like, all coming home and having, like, these, like, weird things where they're like, hey, it's good to be home. And you're like, well, I want to talk about the moon. I don't want to talk about. Don't have regular conversations.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You couldn't pay me to suck a space dick.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That's what it is. You're like, that's the conversation I want to have. Like, aliens up there. I don't know. I'm always, like. I'm always fascinated that people can compartmentalize.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

When they've done really cool stuff. Because you're like, well, that's just all I want to talk about. But I also could see how that would be boring, where you're like, please don't bring up that thing again.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think that's the case. I always feel like those people don't want to talk about it, because it's not. Unless you're. Unless you want to really get into it.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Then you can't get into it. So let's talk about something that's, like, fun. Like dogs or, like.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You know. Oh, actually, yeah, I'm doing my own coffee now. I do. I'm roasting my own beans.

[Dan Soder]

You know, I don't want to talk about this. They go, but this is what you want to talk about? Because I'm like. I think I get that way when I meet, like, fans of comedy that want to talk. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll talk comedy all day. I love talk comedy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't really. Oh, my God. It's like, the worst.

[Dan Soder]

See, I like it when they're like, I like this stand up. I'll be like, oh, okay. I think it's, like, interesting because you're like, wow, finding out. But I'm also a wrestling fan, so.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, that's like a fandom thing.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I think I've been too harsh on la, because LA does have a lot of cool stuff where you bump into people that are also making like, that whole city is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

The thing I don't like about it is something that as I get older, I'm starting to turn on, which is that I don't do like it. I felt like everyone was in the business every time I went there.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And that used to be a hater of la.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, yeah. Really big hater of la.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You know, the whole, like. The whole, like, meme about la New York, right? What, you send that one? It's from. I think it's from. What's the show? Don Draper show, you know.

[Dan Soder]

Oh. It's like, we don't even think about you.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. It's like, I hate you every day.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I love New York.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't live here, but I love coming here. I love it so much. Like, I can't. I can't live here, man.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it's too cool. I.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But all these New Yorkers are like, la. It's like, why we like you.

[Dan Soder]

I know.

[Johnny Pemberton]

We like you a lot.

[Dan Soder]

You know what it is? I think it is early in the business. Everyone knows you have to move to la. And a lot of people are like, but I don't. I like living in New York. And they're like, you gotta go.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Gotta go there.

[Dan Soder]

And then it's like. Honestly, I think it's like. It's like going to a place and only seeing a shittiest part where you go.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dan Soder]

Because once I had friends move out there and they live there and they have backyards and. And you're like, you go. And they live like. You say you have neighbors that aren't in the industry. You just live in a neighborhood. Oh, do you have the meme.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, it's a. It's pretty well known.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Louisiana. New York. Yeah. I don't even think of you at all.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Other way around.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, it's quite literally the other way around.

[Johnny Pemberton]

LA lives in your head, man.

[Dan Soder]

They, you know, that's the wrong, that's

[Johnny Pemberton]

the wrong meme, man. Misinformation, literally just make that.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it's funny. He's over there.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, he doesn't give a about New York because they're a bunch of like,

[Dan Soder]

you know, I will say, what LA people the wrong direction. What la?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm walking here, I'm walking here.

[Dan Soder]

Johnny moved here. Johnny lives in Brooklyn now. He lives in a three floor walk up in Brooklyn.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I used to watch that movie all the time. I want to bang on a cab so bad.

[Dan Soder]

Then you do it and you go, oh, these are from a country where they will fight me. Yeah, they go, bang on me. I paid a hundred thousand dollars for this medallion, I'll kill you. And I'm going against Uber now. But it was, it was a thing that I will admit as a reformed LA hater, that I was just like, la, it sucks, blah, blah, blah. Then you go out there and you're like, I think the reason we say it sucks so bad is because your quality of life, maybe not quality of

[Johnny Pemberton]

work, it's a different quality of life.

[Dan Soder]

It's a different thing as you get older, you go, it's quiet.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, it's so quiet.

[Dan Soder]

You got there and you go, they have a backyard. I can go apartment with my 50 pound dog who's like, can we please go to grass? And you're like, I think as I get older, I understand it, but I couldn't live there because I'm too lazy. I would get a backyard, I would get a house, stay there.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And I go, I'm not, I mean, I don't leave, I've left the house in the past three days. A house, I mean the, my hotel. Yeah, I've left it. I've done more than I've done like in almost a month in la.

[Dan Soder]

That's what I mean. You get somewhere, do spots in LA and you're like, oh, do two spots and you go, it's great. There's like two hours in between it and then it's 50 minutes of traffic and you're like, why did. And then you go, I, I thought I could do a show in Santa Monica and everyone LA goes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And you're like, it's like a different planet.

[Dan Soder]

I know. So I could never live there.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I did a spot, had the greatest chicken sandwich I've ever had. And then my friend's like, you know, this Movie's starting in 10 minutes. You want to go see it? I'm like, it's right on the corner. Okay, let's go.

[Dan Soder]

That's what I mean.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I saw a movie. Like, what the. That's wild.

[Dan Soder]

I came home last night and I was like. Katie was like, how'd the shows go? And I was like, oh. Like. And then I realized I did five spots in one night and didn't even have to, like, pretty much leave an area.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's nuts, man.

[Dan Soder]

You go, oh, I had three good ones. Two sucked. And I said that I went. Three were good, too. Holy. I did five spots. I did four at a club and wanted a bar show. And it was like, all within the same area.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think that makes the type of stand up in New York different.

[Dan Soder]

You guys perform your asses off. And I will say that, yeah, I think that's something that New York comics don't like to admit. But we're starting to come around on too, is like, man, LA comics. You guys stay in the bit, you perform it. You actually are in the bit. We are so concerned with laughs per minute and punch lines and that. We're just like, all right. And it's like the next one.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's also so crowd worky here. It's kind of. Oh, my God. It's insane. There's some shows.

[Dan Soder]

This is like when you don't know you got fat and then you see a picture and you go, oh, oh, I'm so fat now.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It is, though. It's the kind of thing where there's certain audiences where if you don't talk to them, they're just not gonna laugh.

[Dan Soder]

I hate that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I fucking hate it the most. I hate it so much.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, no.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like, hurts me.

[Dan Soder]

This feels like a doctor diagnosis where they go, we found something in your blood. Was a crowd work. And they go, yeah, lethal amounts.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You have extremely high amount of crowd work.

[Dan Soder]

You have a lot of. Have you been doing a lot of. How did you two meet? Have you been doing that? It does.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You've been doing a lot of. What's that necklace?

[Dan Soder]

Oh, that's a nice necklace. What sucks is following crowd work and it's your friend and you can't get off stage and go, you. Me?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. Because it's so live. It's so like, well, people like it

[Dan Soder]

now everything is social media's engagement.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't even think about that. I don't think the whole, like, people complain about, like, oh, you have to do crowd work for clips. It's like, I don't give A about that. That's like a different thing you're living in. That's your world. I don't know. That's like, for me, I don't care about that.

[Dan Soder]

But can I tell you, someone that's confronted other comics about crowd work clips you. Yeah. It doesn't go well.

[Johnny Pemberton]

What do you mean? Like, confront. Like saying like, you're, you're kind of like, full of. Sort of like you're not full of.

[Dan Soder]

I just go, stop. What are you doing? You're like, you're slopping up the world.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

You're, like, making it where everyone thinks stand up. And this was like, a person I've known for a very long time, and it did not go well. So I will not do it again. But I was like, yo. And I tried to joke around about it. I was like, yeah, it's like you and crowd were Eclipse. And they were like, why would you say that? And I was like, well, it's true. And then it was a couple months of.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You see what people say about it, though? The comments on them, they know the rules.

[Dan Soder]

Listeners know the rules. You see me live. You can ask who it was and I'll tell you. I won't say on the podcast.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I bet, I know.

[Dan Soder]

I bet we'll get.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I bet you guess afterwards, either way, the people don't like it anymore. There's a lot of comments that they're saying, like, I came to see. I don't came to see you talk to a guy for one guy for 10 minutes. Because it's not, it's so I'll tell

[Dan Soder]

you what makes you know what I mean?

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's narrow.

[Dan Soder]

This truly, like, Pavlovian makes me angry is when I'm at it, when I'm at a show and someone's doing crowd work and they do the thing. Because I've watched Big J do, like, some of the greatest crowd work I've ever seen in my life. Like, truly a performance.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He can do it. He has that. He has that energy.

[Dan Soder]

He could have been an interrogator.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Soder]

Could have been a CIA interrogator.

[Johnny Pemberton]

He has that thing that, you know, I have a good friend who's even bigger than him. He's like a really big guy.

[Dan Soder]

Sure. Well, Jay, Skinny now. You were there at the bonfire yesterday. You saw.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, but he's still, like, he has the presence of a guy who, if he sits down to talk to you to table, you're going to be like, yeah, I stole it. I, I, I stole the yeah, it's

[Dan Soder]

just him sitting down. Let's get down to business. And you're like, yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, sir.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like he carries himself. He's not hurried.

[Dan Soder]

Sure.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's certain people who are. Have a deep voice. They're like substantial physically. And if you're unhurried, there's like a confidence in that word. Like someone like me is gonna be. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And I'm so desperate for approval. Well, here's the thing. And also, if you're not mad, you can leave it anytime.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Right?

[Dan Soder]

You're right. People that can just sit in it and go, like, we don't have to make anything happen. We can just. He's great at it. But so I love, I like crowd work when it's done well. But the thing that really makes me mad is when I hear someone ask somebody something. Whatever the person says, the, the comic just repeats in a, in a silly voice, right? Where they go, where do you work? And they go, I work at a financial firm. They go, oh, this guy went, I work at a financial firm. It's like, I want to shoot you.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, I want.

[Dan Soder]

If the old west, I would draw on you right now. I would be like.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Cuz it's like a trick. People will always laugh no matter what. It's like a parlor trick or something.

[Dan Soder]

Fans of comedy that are listening to this right now do Johnny Pemberton and I a favor.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Go see movies and don't go to comedy shows.

[Dan Soder]

No, go to comedy shows. You son of a. You cut me off. Don't go see mermaid. Go see mermaid. Absolutely. Go see mermaid. Johnny's an unbelievable.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You can also see me do stand up too.

[Dan Soder]

You're hilarious. Here's what I don't like about you, is that you're good at everything.

[Johnny Pemberton]

No, I'm not.

[Dan Soder]

As someone, I had to like, kind of learn how to act to get through billions. Yeah, you can act your dick off because. But you're also a great show.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, but my standup is not. Like I say this, I'm not. I mean, I'm not proud or ashamed of it. I've done probably half or less the amount of standup that someone who's been doing it as long as me sure has done. Like, I just don't have that many reps.

[Dan Soder]

But what I like about admitting that honesty is that you go, you're. You're being honest in a way that I think people in your position don't have to be where you go, I don't have as many reps, so come see me. Do stand up. I'm still kind of figuring it this out versus, like, and I hate to say this, a lot of LA people, they'll go, like, I've been doing comedy for 30 years, but you find out they haven't been on stage in 10 years.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, there's definitely a ton of. Like, that. That's definitely from the comedy boom.

[Dan Soder]

Yes, it is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God, that's some of that stuff. I'm just like, get this over with. It's good. It's dying. It is dying.

[Dan Soder]

It is dying.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I do think that, like, legitimate. I don't, you know, I'm putting in quotes, but, like, legitimate stand up. The kind of thing where people aren't doing that thing where they're saying, like. I don't even describe it. The thing where you say something sort of like that crowd work bit you're talking about where you say, like, oh, yeah. Or you're just going up there, you're doing stuff where there's no takeaway.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's no takeaway at all. Reactionary laughing. Yeah, that's breaking the uncomfortable, uncomfortable silence. It's not actually funny.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's just this weird human response through generating.

[Dan Soder]

Well, the funnel is. And what I was going to say before that is if you are at a show and someone does that crowd work thing, call them out on it, please. I'm sending my own little soldiers into the field. Yeah, call them out on that. This is how I. This is how. This is my Ted Kaczynski. These are my little pipe bombs I'm sending.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Ask.

[Dan Soder]

It goes. Don't say that in that tone again. Call that out on crowd work would be fantastic.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, I think those people just. They're gonna go away.

[Dan Soder]

Well, that's what it is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Sustainable.

[Dan Soder]

It's the pipeline of what used to. What used to feed into, like, DJs in like the2010.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God. Because I was a DJ for a long time and I wouldn't. I wouldn't tell people I'm a dj because I was so embarrassed of it. I would say, oh, you're a dj, right? You spin. I'm like, I. I play records sometimes.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, that's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's the humble way of doing embarrassing. But like, oh, my God, being a DJ is.

[Dan Soder]

But it's gone now. Everyone used to be a dj, now no one's a dj. Before that, everyone was an MTV vj.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like, everyone wanted to be on mtv.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like Jesse. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

But guess what? Now if Jesse came along, you'd go, I'm Doing stand up.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God.

[Narrator/Host]

Crazy.

[Dan Soder]

I got an hour. And you're like, no, you're not. Not though. You're just like. So I think this will stand up. It'll pass by. People will go to another thing and use that for clicks and views and money. And we just have to remember that. We just have to be like, it's, it's almost over, guys. True fans of comedy, we're almost through it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Cream always rises.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, true, true.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Heads always know.

[Dan Soder]

Well, I knew it got too big. Where a couple years ago there was a comic that was like, what am I just gonna like, keep doing this and work comedy clubs until I'm dead? And you're like, you'd be lucky. You'd be lucky. It always makes me think of the scene of Office Space where he's like, what do you guys want to work at? In attack the rest of your lives? And Samir goes, that kind of security would be nice. But you're like, that's how I feel. If I can. If I knew I could sell out the Funny Bone for the rest of my life. Like, give me that, give me that all day.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I feel differently about that.

[Dan Soder]

Really?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. I don't know, something about certain road stuff where I just like, excuse me, I ate oatmeal. The big oatmeal. Gone now. Saving my life.

[Dan Soder]

But you wouldn't want to do that. You wouldn't want to go work comedy clubs.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's just the traveling and that's the road.

[Dan Soder]

That's what stand up is.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. And I don't love.

[Dan Soder]

Go do your act. You gotta go. You gotta go work the act.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm. Actors will say I'm not an actor and comedians will say I'm not a comedian.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because of what I just said. It's like this thing where.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, I get that you're in like a weird world where, you know, like, I don't want to do that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I don't. Well, because for a long time I didn't like doing the road because I didn't have fans. And so when you're doing sucks, when you're in like fucking Columbus, Ohio at the Funny Bone and you look like you're like a 16 year old girl like me.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

People are, they're not respectful to you.

[Dan Soder]

But don't you feel like you're at a point in your career now where you could go on the road and people will come see you?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, now I am, but I still have this like, like I'm doing. I'm doing Honolulu on May 28 at the Blue Note.

[Dan Soder]

Blue Note.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I've heard that. Great shows about.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I mean, who cares? It could be the worst show ever. I'm a Hawaii man. I don't care. You can throw a chair.

[Dan Soder]

I wonder if Hawaiians get mad at that. Where they go, can you bring it? Can you bring it?

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm gonna bring it.

[Dan Soder]

Because every single person I know, I have the same reaction. I go, I don't know. I'm doing a show in Hawaii. Who gives a shit? I'm gonna be in sandals. And the people of Hawaii are like, would be nice if you really tried. It'd be nice if you actually showed up and tried to have a good show. Why do the people of Madison, Wisconsin, get a tight show?

[Johnny Pemberton]

They really get it, too.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, but then Hawaii.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I'm also doing Madison in July 9th

[Dan Soder]

through the 11th at go to Comedy on Stage.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, that place, man. Holy club in the country. It's nuts there.

[Dan Soder]

It's very good. But I understand what you're saying. You're kind of in this middle ground where actors are like, you're not going to. You're not doing Shakespeare in the Park. You're not doing all this stuff. And then comics are going to. Going. You're not at a Chuckle Hut in Oklahoma City for $2 a weekend.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I've done some of that, and I've felt the burn. I felt the burn years ago, but now I can. Like, I have fans coming, which is great. So I really appreciate. I really appreciate the people being on board with what I'm doing. Because before, you know, I would do, like, weird stuff. And if you're doing weird stuff to people who are wasted and got comp tickets, they just don't give a.

[Dan Soder]

They will talk over you trying to do personal material. Drunk table doesn't care.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, God.

[Dan Soder]

Drunk table's like, what are you saying? You're like, I was talking about how my uncle was.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And they're like, I don't even know it's her birthday.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But that is. That is so incredibly terrible. There's no reason to keep. I think if that keeps happening, then I don't know. That's not good.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That's not a life I would argue. My argument against that would be when you do comedy long enough, people know you now. Like, there's not right. There still will be groups of rediscovery or people that don't know you. But it's. I've always. Last night at the Cellar, there was this Audience that Ravello and I were texting about because. Because he went on before me and then he left. And later in the night, he's like, did you like that crowd? I was like, absolutely not. They were, like, sensitive and dumb, which

[Johnny Pemberton]

is like the worst, ultimate, worst combination.

[Dan Soder]

Worst combination. But the saving grace was there were a couple people that I could tell, the way they were laughing, that they

[Johnny Pemberton]

knew me all right.

[Dan Soder]

And so I just performed to them. And it saved my time on the show because I went like, there was a guy, like, by the half baked poster that kept laughing. And I was like, this guy gets. He's laughing at all the right stuff, right? So I'm just. I'm not doing the. The four girls that are on a girl trip in the front row going, no. When you say something they don't like, you just go, I'm going over you. I'm talking to them. That. But I understand what you're saying when the audience is all those people, yeah, shit sucks. But I think you're at a point now where there will be people in the room where you just go, you're my friend. I'm going to talk to you. It's like being at a party where you only know two people. You just go, I fucking know these two people. I'll talk to these people.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Sometimes it's like, you know, I feel like when you have people who are. You have to look at them, and it's so much. It takes so much energy that's. It's exhausting. And a lot of times I'm like, I just don't feel. I completely get that the money is not worth that. If you can make it elsewhere, it becomes not worth it.

[Dan Soder]

I wish more people had that attitude. I wish more people had that attitude. And I think if more people had that attitude, I think comedy wouldn't be as polluted with people that are just doing it to make money.

[Johnny Pemberton]

You mean hacks?

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, they're. They're hacks.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's what pandering is.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

They're doing it to. But so much of comedy is built around pandering.

[Dan Soder]

I know.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And it's.

[Dan Soder]

You're talking to a guy that pandered probably the first 30 years of his life.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I. I mean, I've done it recently.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. You know when you have a pander feeling.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

When you feel that pander, you go in your. In your soul, you go, terrible. But I think there's people that go, shut up, soul. And then they just keep going until that they don't make that noise.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Because they don't give a. Because they're so. I mean, I think the biggest trick that comedy industry ever did was convince comedians that it was art.

[Dan Soder]

It's not.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's not at all. It's a. It's a service, it's a trade.

[Dan Soder]

It's.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It can be.

[Dan Soder]

We are truck stop blow. We are a truck stop blowjob.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It can be, though.

[Dan Soder]

It can be artful if done right in the right situation. Right. Like what Richard Pryor did with some of, like his first special, which Chappelle did with Killing Him Softly. There's like moments like what Maria Bamford does.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's art.

[Dan Soder]

There you go. That is artistic.

[Johnny Pemberton]

But there's a lot of times where.

[Dan Soder]

But we're not artists.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It becomes. When you're doing multiple shows in a place that you don't want to be with people you don't want to know, you are not. That is not art. You are babysitting. It's a trade. And all these club owners who are, let's face it, these guys are crime. Tangential. They're like, that's how it started.

[Dan Soder]

That's how stand up started.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

If you read any history book, the reason they're called stand up comedians isn't because they stood up on stage. It was. I mean, you should read that book. I have it here. The History of Comedy. It's this one. It's phenomenal, by Cliff Nester. This one right here, it's called. You should read this if you're a fan of comedy. It's called the Comedians Trunks, Thieves, Scoundrels in the History of American Comedy. He put it out in.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think it's in the front, right?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Where is it? It's like. But this is like the book on comedy history.

[Narrator/Host]

Didn't.

[Dan Soder]

I was told 2015 by Cliff Nesteroff, who was. I'm probably up his name.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's a crazy name. Cliff K L I P. He's a

[Dan Soder]

Canadian comedian, but he does the best job I've ever read of. Where stand up comedy came from, from its vaudeville beginning and all that shit. But it was for the mob. The mob would have these supper clubs and it would have these things and they'd have bands and they need someone to be funny and tell jokes and

[Johnny Pemberton]

cheaper to pay one guy than it is to pay five guys.

[Dan Soder]

And also we're pandering hookers. So they all knew, this guy's not going to get out of line. And so the reason they'd say that is like, oh, he won't narc on you. He's a standup guy. So there's like a standup comedian. Yeah, that's where it all comes from.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Crazy.

[Dan Soder]

They talk about it in this book. So you would work for, quote, unquote, the outfit. You would work for the mob. And they'd be like, yeah, that's what all the. You were like a lot of the times. The first, like, circus Tony.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, Tony. Work for old Tony, dude.

[Dan Soder]

There's a guy in there that thought he was too big for the mob and they cut his tongue out and he survived and he never learned. They cut his throat open and put his. It's crazy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's gonna be me.

[Dan Soder]

And it's cuz he's saying, talking to. Out. Yeah. Ask where they're from.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And then you don't want to do the Oklahoma Funny bump. Okay.

[Dan Soder]

Too big. Yeah, you're too big. Maybe you don't walk around too good no more.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. I want you chewing this gum.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. It really is a awesome book about the history of comedy, though. And it's like when you read it, you go, we're too comfortable right now. They talk about the vaudeville acts. They would be in these beautiful theaters, these, like, pristine, beautiful theaters. And backstage it would just be like three feet of plywood and rats and. And they'd be like, yeah, you got three shows tonight. And then they would have like, the Marx Brothers in this talk. There's like old. Old interviews where they talk about sleeping in train stations.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Wow.

[Dan Soder]

So that they can make the next gig. And they're making like $3 a gig or some shit like that.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's never going to change, though, because people always. Actors, comedians, anyone who's doing something that they want to do will always get paid less because they know that you want to do it.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Johnny Pemberton]

And so you'll. You'll do. You'll suffer.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Something like if you're like a new actor on a show or something, they're like, oh, we don't have to pay you anything.

[Dan Soder]

Anything.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Minimum we can pay.

[Dan Soder]

Thank God there's a union.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

If it's a union, they go, you got to do SAG minimum.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And even that, you go, it's pretty offensively low.

[Johnny Pemberton]

There's so many things we're looking back. I'm like, oh, they got a fucking deal on me, baby. Such a deal.

[Dan Soder]

And you start realizing that with comedy, you know when you don't sell tickets and you just go, it's. I'm so grateful to be here. Then you start selling tickets, you you fucking crook.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, my God. The money that they make off, they don't have to sell tickets at all. And they're still making handover fist on all this.

[Dan Soder]

It's crazy.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Like, the. The fact is, imagine going to any sort of art event and there being a minimum drinks.

[Dan Soder]

You have to buy the best. That was like. That was one of the jokes I made in my HBO special of like, you don't. There's no two drink minimum at the ballet.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like, we're not artists, we're just mall clowns.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah. But sometimes, you know, sometimes it is kind of artful, though. I feel like you sneak it in.

[Dan Soder]

I feel like there. It's like in the way that, like, it's like in the way that some. Sometimes bad can be beautiful.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Like a fire can be beautiful. Like you're watching a building burn and you go, that's beautiful. I'm an arsonist that needs to come.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Who did this? I did it.

[Dan Soder]

Make sure you watch the movie Mermaid. Watch everything Johnny does. He's hilarious. I don't care that you're, you know, you're like, actors hate me. Comics hate me. I've always thought you. We did Montreal together in 2011.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Is that how we know each other?

[Dan Soder]

I did Unwrapped and you did regular New Faces.

[Johnny Pemberton]

When's the last time I saw you

[Dan Soder]

person before the pandemic?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Yeah, a long time.

[Dan Soder]

I want to say like 2019, when I was in LA. I think it was the last time I saw you physically.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's crazy.

[Dan Soder]

But I've known you a while and I've always been blown away by your talent.

[Johnny Pemberton]

I think your special is probably one of my favorite specials. I think Son of Gary is one of the best specials made in the last 20 years.

[Dan Soder]

Thanks, man.

[Johnny Pemberton]

It's so great. So great.

[Dan Soder]

I really appreciate that. Really worked hard. And it's awesome when people that I like are like, I like the. You made you go. Thanks, dude.

[Johnny Pemberton]

That's because I just shot mine. I was like, this is the one of the examples I use.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Johnny Pemberton]

How it should look.

[Dan Soder]

I mean, I got a little. I got real lucky on that because Chris Storer directed it right before he created the bear. And so it was like a thing where I was like, well, I think it was just luck.

[Johnny Pemberton]

The special doesn't live on that.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it's, you know, it was just a really cool. And you know, when's your. Yours is coming out?

[Johnny Pemberton]

Oh, we're still editing it right now.

[Dan Soder]

All right.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Probably like, you know, maybe this summer. Maybe fall back come back now. I'll come back.

[Dan Soder]

Come back. Come back and we'll play. We'll play Far Cry. Well, Far Cry. We'll play Fallout. Play Far Cry. Far Cry.

[Johnny Pemberton]

We'll just sit around and do drugs and play Fallout for a thousand hours and a tunnel.

[Dan Soder]

Who's got Adderall? Let's do it.

[Johnny Pemberton]

Do you have any?

[Dan Soder]

No. I can get you. Sam.