Aubrey Gordon - A really deeply strange time

Summary

Sofieland with Sofie Hagen

Episode: Aubrey Gordon - A Really Deeply Strange Time
Date: March 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Sofieland is a candid, laughter-filled conversation between host Sofie Hagen and guest Aubrey Gordon (podcaster, author). The two friends dig into the quirks of everyday life, from eyewear and food obsessions to letter-writing nostalgia, before diving into deeper reflections on living with joy amid societal and political gloom. With their signature conversational humor, they talk about queerness, stationery vices, the complexities of activism, and the “deeply strange time” we’re all living through.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Identity, Activism & Queerness (01:14–03:00)

• Activist Label: Aubrey shares reservations about being called an activist since she’s no longer “full-time,” likening it to “stolen valor.”
  • “I tried to. You know what I mean? Like, sure, man, sure.” – Aubrey Gordon (01:14)
• Queer Eyewear: Both joke about their expressive glasses as a marker of queerness.
  • “I wonder if we’re queer. Who knows?” – Sofie (02:24)
  • “These frames, these haircuts, who could say?” – Aubrey (02:26)
• Gender, Glasses, and Norms: Sofie tells a story about gendered glasses shopping with her mother and encountering rigid gender aesthetics in eyewear (02:32–04:12).

2. Gender, Labels, and... Dogs (04:12–08:42)

• Dog Gender Performance: Aubrey describes her experiences with people’s obsession over her small dog’s gender identity.
  • “He is non verbal. That is unfortunate.” – Aubrey (05:34)
• Animal Gender Headcanons: Sofie posits: All cats are women, most dogs are men, greyhounds are non-binary, and French bulldogs are “weirdo” dogs (06:16–07:12).
  • “Greyhounds are non binary. Clearly.” – Sofie (06:47)
• Viral Dog Buttons and Misinformation: Discussion of the “talking dog” TikTok phenomenon and parallels to debunked animal communication science (07:23–08:42).

3. Joys of Food, Nostalgia & Hyperfixation (09:06–13:51)

• Returning to Denmark: Sofie revels in Danish foods, especially rye bread, after living in the UK where “they don’t have rye bread or good sandwiches.” (09:27–10:41)
  • “How do you have lunch?... every single day for 12 years while I lived there.” – Sofie (09:21)
• Hyperfixation Meals: Both admit to cycles of eating the same meals until burnout.
  • “You’ve got a hyper fixation meal, huh?” – Aubrey (11:03)
  • “It’s always rye bread.” – Sofie (11:09)
• Farmers Markets & Food Creativity: Aubrey shares joy of living near a farmers market and the playful “personal Iron Chef” challenge (12:37–13:51).
  • “It’s such a little, like, microdose of community. Everything about it is the best.” (13:39)

4. Food Adventures & Restrictions (13:52–17:00)

• Improvised Cooking: Aubrey experiments with ingredients (like sunchokes) without recipes and finds the process healing, especially as someone with a history of disordered eating (14:02–15:55).
  • “A joyful exploration of new ingredients... It’s the best. It’s like, the way to be.” – Aubrey (15:16)
• Adapting for Others: Sofie struggles cooking for her garlic-averse mother, finding it “just impossible” (15:55–16:35).

5. Stationery Passions and Handwritten Correspondence (17:14–23:14)

• Notebook Obsession: Both admit to owning excessive notebooks; Aubrey prefers large, hardcover, lined, with a pen loop (17:55–18:28).
• Letter Writing: Aubrey and a friend have exchanged handwritten letters for over twenty years, keeping a box of their correspondence.
  • “I hand write letters very often... I have a box set that I filled with all of the letters from this person who I just, like, absolutely adore.” – Aubrey (19:17)
• Letterboxes Disappearing in Denmark: Sofie laments the removal of letterboxes and the push towards digital-only communications, pondering the exclusion of those without smartphones (22:33–24:28).
  • “It’s quite wild what’s happening... to take away the option feels like a little bit extreme.” – Aubrey (24:10)

6. Bagel Shops, Bad Fusion, and Food Fails (25:35–28:22)

• Bagel Shop Gossip: Sofie jokes about a local bagel shop’s suspicious explosion; Aubrey shares her own college-town “Bagel Gourmet Olay”—a fusion of bad Mexican food and good bagels.
  • “It was bad news.” – Aubrey on “Bagel Gourmet Olay” (27:31)
• Wild Restaurant Combos: Sofie describes a nearby Italian–Chinese–Sushi hybrid—one she would never dare enter (27:51–28:18).

7. Writing, Podcasting & “Maintenance Phase” Bloopers (28:33–32:49)

• Creative “Fails”: Aubrey discusses researching topics for her podcast and books that sometimes feel too absurd to tackle seriously (e.g., Tim Ferriss’ Four Hour Body, Breatharians).
  • “Do I need to debunk this—that human beings need food to survive?” – Aubrey (30:26)
• Preference for Complexity: More nuanced scams make for richer storytelling; Aubrey cites probiotics hype as an example (31:18–32:49).

8. Birthdays, Berlin Wall, and Timely Coincidences (32:52–37:35)

• Birthday Accidents: Sofie and Aubrey realize their birthdays are a day apart; musings on time zones, second-child syndrome, and their shared “Scorpio” identity (33:34–36:12).
  • “We’re secretly the same person!” – Aubrey (33:55)
• Family Date Patterns: Sofie shares family pressure about not being born on 11/11 to align with relatives’ dates (37:11).

9. Detours: Berlin Wall, US Elections, & Political Structures (37:37–41:39)

• History Buffs & Election Day Disappointments: Aubrey describes growing up saddened that her birthday could never fall on US election day—a true “nerd kid” complaint (38:00–38:44).
• Difference in Election Systems: Sofie compares Denmark’s flexible election scheduling versus the US’s rigid terms; Aubrey recounts recent US political scandals to illustrate the current climate (40:03–41:39).

10. Processing Joy Amidst Global Darkness (41:39–44:25)

• Living in Contradiction: Both reflect on the dissonance between finding joy in everyday rituals while political and social crises rage.
  • “While things are horrendous… And then you go to the farmer's market. Part of it is… just be able to have a moment of normalcy that’s not... horror show shit all the time.” – Aubrey (43:19)
  • “It’s a really deeply strange time.” – Aubrey (43:56)
• Finding Small Joys: These moments of communal normalcy are more cherished precisely because the world feels so unstable.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “No, I don't think I can claim that right now. Not in a world where Greta exists, I don't think.” – Sofie (01:54)
• “Greyhounds are non binary. Clearly.” – Sofie (06:47)
• “We've all got our crosses to bear.” – Aubrey (25:31)
• “It’s such a little, like, microdose of community. Everything about it is the best.” – Aubrey (13:39)
• “I love a notebook that is hardcover. I love a notebook that has a little elastic pen loop.” – Aubrey (17:55)
• “This is some real scorp on Scorp crime. What's happening?” – Aubrey (33:40)
• “It’s a really deeply strange time. Really deeply strange time. And a hard sentence to say.” – Aubrey & Sofie (43:56)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Activism & Identity – 01:14–03:00
• Gender, Dogs & TikTok – 04:12–08:42
• Danish Food Joy – 09:16–10:41
• Farmers Market Adventures – 12:37–13:51
• Hyperfixation Meals – 11:03–12:08
• Stationery Confessions – 17:14–19:19
• Letterboxes & Going Analog – 22:33–24:28
• Storytelling “Fails” – 29:03–32:49
• Scorpio Birthday Realization – 33:34–36:12
• Election Systems & Current US Politics – 38:00–41:39
• Navigating Joy & Dread – 41:39–44:25

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Episode Tone & Highlights

The conversation is full of quick wit, candid self-revelation, and affectionate ribbing. Beneath the easy banter lie more serious reflections about identity, community, societal norms, and navigating joy amid uncertainty. Both Sofie and Aubrey create a space that feels inclusive, affirming, and honest—showing how humor and authenticity can coexist even during “a really deeply strange time.”

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Where to Find Aubrey:

• Instagram and BlueSky: @yrfatfriend
• Podcast: Maintenance Phase
• Books: Available wherever books are sold

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[All segments and quotes attributed as per timestamps; extraneous intros, ads, and outros omitted for clarity.]

Transcript

[A]

Dear citizens of Sophie Land, I will let you listen to the episode in approximately 60 seconds. But first I just want to let you know that my brand new show, I think some of this is my fault, will be going to the Edinburgh Fringe this August and then in November I'm taking it to Soho Theater in London. Then it's going on tour to Denmark, Copenhagen, Unser and Aarhus, Sweden, Melmurg and Stockholm. Then I'm going to Berlin. I'm going to Rotterdam. The UK dates have just come out which are Leicester, Sheffield, Selby, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Reading, Brighton, Cambridge, London and Exeter. Tickets can be found on sophie hagen.com link is in the show notes alongside the link for the Patreon or the substack. Because this podcast is self produced, meaning I do all of the stuff. I do the editing, the uploading, the booking of the guests, the interviews, every single effing thing. So your support means the whole world to me. So if you sign up for the Patreon or the substack, you will get extra fun bonus content and you get to support me. I really appreciate it. I really love you. Thank you so much for listening. Please enjoy this episode. Thank you. Aubrey Gordon, Podcaster, Author. Do you go by activist?

[B]

Not usually in my credits, but like, I tried to. You know what I mean? Like, sure, man, sure.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think you are, but I. I feel weird about it. I feel like when people call you not, not for you, but for me, I'm like, I'm. I'm stepping away from the label now because I feel like, like, no, no, that's. That's a perfect person doing the right thing and I need to not wear that hat.

[B]

Yeah, I can understand that. I would say my reticence around it is much more around, like having been full time in it and not being full time anymore. So I'm like, oh, that feels like stolen valor. I've been out for like 10 years. I don't get to claim. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, it feels a bit like.

[A]

Like I. I once walked through a mall wearing a nice coat. So now I'm a model. I'm like, no, I don't think I can claim that right now. Not in a world where Greta exists, I don't think.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

I'm so happy to have you here. We were just talking about glasses, because your glasses are awesome.

[B]

My eyes are awesome. It's really true. We've got a couple of pairs of statement frames happening on the feed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I wonder if we're queer. Who knows?

[B]

Oh no. These frames, these haircuts, who could say?

[A]

No one knows. I just need a husband. But I, I almost, I didn't almost genuinely punch a woman today, but I really wanted to in a glasses store, like up, what's it called? Optomologist. Optometrist. What are they called?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Optometrist is what we call, but like different.

[A]

Yeah, Glasses person. Cuz my mother was getting her new glasses and this woman was just like, she'd already done her work on my mother before I got there. And I parade, I barged through this door to like try and save her from getting the ugliest old woman glasses in the world. And this, this woman was just, would not let her try the men's glasses. And I was like, is that because of an actual like eye condition thing or is it purely aesthetic? She was like, well it's aesthetic but like because you can see the men's, they're very square. And I'm like, look at my mother. She is dressed as my father. She will not have the, the, the little pink dumb round glasses that you want her. Look at her.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And this woman was just like looking past me at my mother going, I think these ones are really nice. And I was like, we're going to go and try the men's glasses now. And she was like, but they're so masculine. And I was like. And then at one point she said to my mother because I said, I said, I looked through her at my mother and I said, we can go anywhere and get glasses. We don't have to take these ones. And then this woman said, in other stores they're like twelve hundred pounds.

[B]

I was like, what, what is happening? This is, it's really like I find myself astounded that people can't be like normal around trans people. But then like this happens and I'm like, oh, you can't be normal around anybody. You can't be normal around gender like at all.

[A]

Yeah, the fear, the fear that some, a person you've, you will never see again. What if, what if she wears like square glasses? Like she could not have it on her conscience, having sold my mother the

[B]

like, it's so, you know, I have a dog who is small and white and fluffy and thin and afraid of everything. And occasionally, as you may know, you gotta get a new dog harness. They just, there's a point at which they start smelling like pee and don't stop smelling like pee.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know What? I mean, like, that's just. It's done now. That's just how they smell. So I replaced one and picked up one that was hot pink. And the number of people who have flipped their lids about misgendering my dog.

[A]

Wait, and this is for the purposes of this. How does Finn identify?

[B]

I don't know how he identifies. He is non verbal. That is unfortunate.

[A]

He's non verbal.

[B]

Yeah. I guess we'll have to assume man, woman, nonverbal. But it's been really sort of astonishing to watch people go like, oh, God, he, him, he, him. About a dog who does not understand you, does not care, and if he could understand, you would understand that, like, he's getting very likely, like gender based bullied, like, pretty regularly. He's not a masculine dog, whatever that means. You know what I mean?

[A]

No, no, there is. That is a thing. Because I feel like animals are not the gender of their genitalia. It is like cats are women. Most. Most dogs are men.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But if they're like small or very hairy or pretty, like all golden retrievers are women. And I think. And then there's like the weird ones, like the ones where they have, like eyes on the side of their head. They're just non binary.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask is, like, what are the non binary dogs?

[A]

Greyhounds. Greyhounds are non binary. Clearly. Dog. And then we got the weirdo dogs. I think maybe French bulldogs. They could be non binary too. All the health issues. Come on.

[B]

All the.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Canonically non binary.

[A]

That's my theory. Yeah. And we can never prove it wrong because they're all non verbal.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Unfortunately. Unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Maybe that one dog that can, like push. We've seen the one on TikTok that can push buttons.

[B]

No. What? That was the thing.

[A]

Where were you during the pandemic? That was the whole thing.

[B]

I don't know. I didn't get TikTok until after the pandemic. And then I started scrolling through it in upsetting ways and it started doing a Fox News on my brain. Oh, do you know what I mean? Where I was like, oh, I'm too into this and I'm getting actively. I'm knowingly getting bad information from this. I gotta step back. I gotta step back.

[A]

Well, you missed out on the biggest, most important misinformation that you could get, which was the dog that could talk.

[B]

Oh, that's such a bummer.

[A]

They made like, you know that. It's like you push a button and Then it says a word. It's a little machine that says outside or treats.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Then the dog would, like, push the button where it wanted the thing so it would. And then it taught. They taught the dog to say, like, yes. No, like. And then the dog would be like, treat. And then. Oh, yeah. And there are. Listen. People disagree.

[B]

Sure, sure. Especially.

[A]

Any idea what it's doing?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think especially after the sort of debunking of the ape that learned sign language. Right? I believe so. I could be wrong. I believe so.

[A]

Could this make it any worse?

[B]

What a bummer. Between this and that monkey that's being ostracized. Oh, what a time we're living in.

[A]

Probably the worst possible thing that's been.

[B]

Even the animals are mean now. Ah, crud. Okay, so here's my question for you.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

In your return to Denmark, what is the. I remember your little, like, sweets excursions.

[A]

Getting.

[B]

Getting little packages of Danish sweets. When you were in the uk, are there foods that you are especially happy to be reunited with?

[A]

Oh, my God, all of it. Just all of it. I am. It. It feels lunch, like, period. Because in the UK it was so hard to get lunch because they don't have rye bread and, I don't know, all good sandwiches. They don't have rye bread or good sandwiches. So what do you do? How do you have lunch? And that was a question I asked myself every single day for 12 years while I lived there. Rye bread. Dark, almost black, grainy, dense. Rye bread with all of the toppings on. Like, it just. It's just like a huge part of my everyday life that's gotten so much easier because I have rye bread. Just.

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good one. The food is really. Can you. Can you come here, please? I'll show you the food.

[B]

Perfect. Done. Soldier, please be there in, I don't know, 20. Yeah.

[A]

Hours.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Perfect.

[A]

That's fine. See you.

[B]

No, that sounds incredible. And I think there is something about food from home that is just like a really, really, really different experience. Like. Yeah, it's just a really, really different experience. Oh, I'm so happy that you're reunited with the foods that you love.

[A]

I'm so happy, too. What are you. What are your current food? I was going to ask you, do you have any current. I don't. Do you do this? How do you. How do you eat? Do you eat in, like.

[B]

What do you eat?

[A]

Because I think I eat in, like, I choose a meal and then I essentially. And that's breakfast, lunch and dinner. And then I essentially just have that for like, weeks until I'm tired of it.

[B]

You've got a hyper fixation meal, huh?

[A]

Yes, I do.

[B]

Can I ask what your current hyper. Is it rye bread?

[A]

It's always rye bread.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

But this time it's now it's rye bread with egg. Egg for lunch. And my breakfast is a sk. Like kind of yogurt thing. It's like Greek yogurt, but thicker.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, great.

[A]

With blueberries and peanut butter. That's my breakfast.

[B]

Yummy.

[A]

And then current dinners, as always, stews. Love a stew.

[B]

Excellent. Oh, that sounds great.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I am like a recovering meal prep person. So I have been like, I kept doing that so far after the point when I had a day job where I needed lunches prepped, like, so far after the point. And I've been trying to, in this last year, like, cook something every day. Cook something every day. And it's a joy. I, since last we spoke, my office looks identical because I painted it the same color and arranged things in the same way. But I, since last we spoke, have moved and bought a house. And my house, house is like five blocks from my favorite farmer's market. So I get to go every weekend and go like, gather all of the most amazing produce that's available for like five seconds in the spring or whatever. Garlic scapes, sun chokes every everything. And then I get to have a little, like, personal Iron Chef competition, my own personal chopped, where I figure out what to do with all the ingredients. It's so fun. It's so fun and wonderful.

[A]

When you go to the market, do you do, do you pretend that you're Belle from Beauty and the Beast when she goes into town with like a little basket?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. I mean, like, very genuinely, it feels like sort of a storybook thing where I now, like, know a bunch of the vendors and like, have like farmers market buds who you see and who are like, you got to try this kind of pear this week. Get ready. It's really good. It's so wonderful. There's a family run booth where they go up into the forests and forage for mushrooms and just bring you whatever kinds of mushrooms they find. Like, it's the best, dude. I. It makes me so happy. And it's such a, like, joy oriented relationship to food and to. It's such a little like, micro dose of community. Everything about it is the best. Everything about it is the best.

[A]

Well, apart from the, the point where you have to just figure out how to use the food. How? How? Because I can't. I don't understand that. I. I could never not follow a recipe.

[B]

Oh, that's another thing I've been trying to get better at is like, figure it out. Hey, you got something? Figure it out. So this last week was sunchokes. Are you ever a sunchoke person or sometimes called.

[A]

Know what that is?

[B]

Ah, they're very fun. I love them. Yeah, I love them so much.

[A]

So I'm not. I can't even say it. Artichoke.

[B]

Yeah, it's similar. It. It's named as such because there's, like, a little bit of an artichoke kind of flavor to it. Sunchoke is the root of a sunflower. It's a root vegetable at the root of a sunflower.

[A]

Oh, is it not ginger? It looks like ginger.

[B]

Doesn't it look kind of knobbly and. Yeah, it looks very gingery.

[A]

It tastes like ginger, but it's not.

[B]

It's not. It tastes like a cross between an artichoke and a sunflower seed. It has, like, a little sort of nutty kind of flavor to it. So I was like, you know what? I bet this would be good as. Cause a lot of root vegetables are a blended soup. So just make us. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Put it in a pot with some onion and some garlic and some stock and some herbs, and simmer it until it's tender. And then in a blender and maybe finish it with a little cream. Oh, my God. A dream.

[A]

It wasn't as ambitious as it sounds.

[B]

It was incredible. So I. I think just having stuff like that where, like, the. Again, like, the orientation is like a joyful exploration of new ingredients and different foods is, like, the best. It's the best. It's like, the way to be. And I think, especially, like, as a person with a history of eating disorders, I think just being able to find a sort of side door in with food that feels like it's sort of about something else. Right. It's about solving the puzzle of what to do with this ingredient and seeing if it tastes good and all of that kind of stuff. Wonderful, wonderful, love.

[A]

My current attempt has to be at cooking without garlic, because my mother doesn't like garlic, and it is just impossible. I mean, you do it, but then it's just not as good. That is a hate crime.

[B]

That's a tough one, man. Does she. How does she feel about onions?

[A]

Oh, fine. About onions. Okay. There are some onions where she'll be like, that's garlic. And I'm like, it's not garlic. It's just an onion. I'm allowed onion.

[B]

Shallots would be like, too garlicky or something, right? Like too sharp. Yeah. Oh, buddy, that's. That's a lot.

[A]

Yeah. I play Sims a lot and I make them make food and I enjoy it and I live through them.

[B]

You just make the Sims make, like whole heads of roasted garlic every day.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Just as your own revenge.

[A]

They can plant garlic in their gardens and then they can. Can take it and make stuff from it.

[B]

God, I haven't played the Sims in forever.

[A]

It is. I. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy because you will lose your whole life to it. There are so many packs now that it's like.

[B]

I believe it's too good. I believe it. Oh, God. Oh, God.

[A]

Aubrey, do you have. I hope you don't mind, I'm going to take back control of my podcast.

[B]

Do it. Do it.

[A]

Do you have any passionate opinions about stationery?

[B]

About stationary? I mean, I just, I think I'm mostly. I don't know so much about passionate opinions, but I am like an over consumer of stationary. I have so, so many notebooks. So many notebooks. I feel like this is the, the, the curse of anybody with any kind of like creative or intellectual job is like the number of notebooks coming out your damn ears for personal use. I would say. I love a notebook that is hardcover. I know. Love a notebook that is lined. I love a notebook that has a little elastic pen loop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In it. And mostly I just love stationary. Kind of all of it. Like I really.

[A]

What size. What size are you? Oh, are we talking a four big? Are we talking the little classic?

[B]

We're talking big, big. Hang on.

[A]

Good.

[B]

I just got a new one. We're going to look at the new one. It's not even unwrapped yet.

[A]

Oh, an unwrapped notebook. Yes. And like, to them. Yes, we love those. A red light, Tom. A4.

[B]

I simply would never attempt to say

[A]

the name

[B]

you got pulling a fast one on me, but yes. No, I absolutely love them. A massive page lined with like tons of space to sort of visually orient things. Incredible. How about you? Are you a notebook guy?

[A]

Oh, yeah, of course I am. Of course I am. And like, what I am holding up right now is essentially also an A4 red lined notebook. I mean, of course I am. So you're the note, the stationary of choice of yours, I understand, is notebooks. Yes, that's the vice. Yes.

[B]

And I would Say the other one is just, like, letter writing stationary. I.

[A]

Do you write letters?

[B]

I absolutely write letters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I hand write letters very often. I have a good friend who we have been exchanging letters for 20 years at this point. 25 years, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Since, like, senior year of high school.

[A]

So is that the only way you communicate? Because, like, I would be, like, texting them, going, I just send you a letter. Let me know when you receive it. And then it would feel like it wasn't.

[B]

It is. It's. I would say, the main way that we communicate. It's really wonderful. It's really, really wonderful. And as someone who I've known for, like, a super dup, super long time. Like, you know, in that time, both of us have come out. He has transitioned. Like, we have moved to different cities and started different careers and whatever. And I have, like, an old box set, empty box set of, like, a Beach Boys Pet Sounds box set that I filled with all of the letters from this person who I just, like, absolutely adore. Yeah, I love a handwritten letter the most. Ah, also stamps. I don't know. I love stamps. We have commemorative stamps in the US with different people on them and different things on them.

[A]

Oh, so you don't use them, you collect them?

[B]

No, I don't collect them. I get. I buy them and then use them. But then I get to go, ooh, for this letter, am I putting on a Johnny Cash stamp? Am I putting on a Muhammad Ali stamp? Am I putting on a. What am I doing, Bruce Lee? Who's it going to be? Jimmy Stewart? So many options. All of the men, apparently. I was about to say all of them, every last one of them are men, and most of them fighters, which

[A]

is ironic, because then we know they. They. They can't find their way because they won't ask for directions. Am I right? So the letters will never arrive.

[B]

Get lost.

[A]

Maybe put a woman on those stamps and we'd receive our goddamn letters.

[B]

Listen,

[A]

I love. I had, like, a. You know when you have a memory from something that you haven't thought of in L. 20 years. When I was a child, we had. We called it. We called it like, letter paper. Like, paper specifically for writing letters. And it had sense. And you would. You would trade it. Like, you'd collect this specific paper that was censored, or it was, like, had colors on it or little, like, watermarks, and then you would trade it for, like, other people's letter paper.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

It was so cute. I haven't thought of that. Literally. Since it happened 30 years ago.

[B]

I will also say I. So I'm not, I have not experienced scented stationary. Have not. But I am a big like I love a fragrance. Oh my God. I love for things to smell good. Scented candle, perfume, the whole bit. And I absolutely will do a little spritz, spritz on a letter before sending it to just be like. And it smells nice. You know what I mean? Because why not? Because why not? How about you? Are you ever a written correspondence person or are you text all the time? I know it's, it's a weird old timey thing that I know, but it's

[A]

like I wish I'm, this is my year of going analog. Like I'm already, I'm getting back to DVDs, I'm getting back to CDs, I, you know, I'm, I'm finding files that I own that I, you know, so I want to, my goal is to never have to stream anything ever again on our own things. And as part of that, like. Yeah, but in Denmark they've just gotten rid of letterboxes. Like the, the national mailing system are now without letters. You can only send parcels. Yeah. What, yeah.

[B]

Is the, what's the rationale behind that? Is it just like cost money, not doing it?

[A]

People don't send letters.

[B]

That's nuts.

[A]

Apart from of course older people and you know, fuck them apparently.

[B]

And also like gay weirdos,

[A]

old people and all people.

[B]

Like we're only getting these from gay American weirdos. I remain absolutely astounded by the idea of just like removing letter boxes altogether.

[A]

It's a wild like they've also gotten rid of physical like, like when you travel with public transport, you would, you would usually tap like a little card on a thing. Yeah. Now you only use an app. So like you have to have a smartphone to use public transportation. It's quite wild what's happening. And you, you could, you could look at it as like forward thinking. Like oh wow, it's so everything is electronic.

[B]

But I think to take away the option feels like a little bit extreme. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like there are going to be, you know, unhoused people. There are going to be people who don't just don't want a smartphone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are going to be, you know what I mean? Like it just seems like, oh geez, chill out a little bit team. Yeah. But again like reporting to you live from the United States of America. I have no notes. There is. We are banned from any criticism of anyone else until further notice.

[A]

Yeah. Similarly, I should not complain to you about my country. I do apologize for the privilege of living in Denmark right now.

[B]

What a quaint problem to have. Wait, when they took out the letter boxes, who got murdered? No one. Somebody got murdered.

[A]

They actually. They auctioned off all the. The letter boxes and then so people could buy them as, like, a nice little nostalgic thing. And then the money went to charity.

[B]

Oh, that's good.

[A]

That's really cute.

[B]

That's really cute. That is really cute.

[A]

Yeah, but there was an. I don't know if it helps. There was an explosion where I live. Like, no one died, but something exploded. And it's been a.

[B]

Don't know if it helps, but there

[A]

was an explosion, so it's not all peachy here.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. We've all got our crosses to bear. I get you.

[A]

Yeah. So now we don't have our local bagel shop.

[B]

Oh, that is a bummer.

[A]

Yeah. So in a way, they good bagels? No, they were horrible. And I think. I think it was, like. I think it was an inside job, I think.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

I think it was an insurance thing. But, you know, that is literally based on nothing.

[B]

There was a bagel shop when I went to college, so I went to university in the northeast of the United States, which is a very different place than northwest of the United States. Northeast. Dramatically smaller Latino communities. So you would go into restaurants that would be, like, advertising, like, Mexican food or what have you. And there was a place off campus called. That served bagels. Good bagels and Mexican food. Bad Mexican food.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And it was called Bagel Gourmet Olay.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So at one point. There was one point at which my mom came to visit when I was in Rhode island, and she was like, where should we go for dinner? And I was like, oh, the closest place is this place, Bagel Gourmet Olay. And I was like, it's. It's bad. And she was like, oh, Aubrey, you're so provincial. It's called fusion. And I really loved my mom. My, like, extremely sweet mom. Being that witheringly condescending was really incredible

[A]

as I eat this taco bagel. Who's laughing now?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. After seasoned ground beef just poured on top of a bagel.

[A]

As I have diet for two weeks.

[B]

Jesus. Hell, just like canned beans that they didn't even really bother to reheat very much. It was bad news.

[A]

No, I mean, I. There's a place nearby where I live that does Chinese food and sushi and Italian. No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

It's really incredible to be like Chinese food in Italian because like, if you're in the noodle business, congratulations. We got noodles coming and going. That's incredible. Is it? Do they have a strong suit within those?

[A]

A what? A strong suit.

[B]

Are they particularly good at one of those three things, I assume, or are they just sort of like. No, you're like, I've never gone in.

[A]

No, I would never go in.

[B]

Fair. That's fair. That's fair. You're making good choices.

[A]

I'd like to think so. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I usually. So so far I've only spoken to comedians on this. You're the first non comedian.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Of course, you are funny.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But what I usually ask comedians is about when they last did a joke. When you last tried to joke on stage. It didn't work. So I guess the Aubrey Gordon version of that would either be last book you have pitched that didn't work out, or maybe there was like a topic for maintenance phase, like a thing where you were like, this is gonna work. This is gonna be so good. And then it turns out, no, I

[B]

would say almost every episode of the show feels there's a point at which I'm like, this is not going anywhere. What am I doing? So I'm currently working on an episode about a guy named Tim Ferriss who wrote a book.

[A]

I remember him, y know Tim Ferriss.

[B]

So he wrote the Four Hour Work Week was his big sort of claim to fame, which was basically just like hire other people to do your job and then you don't have to do as much of your job. Like it really, it's sort of staggeringly simplistic and just like rich dude doesn't understand that he's rich and other people might not be. He wrote a follow up called the Four Hour Body and I have been reading and researching the Four Hour Body and it's like such complete top to bottom nonsense that it can be hard to figure out like what even is a foothold here. What even. Do you know what I mean? Like what even is there to debunk when it's this ludicrous sort of on its face? Michael, my co host, just did an episode, a bonus episode on Breatharians.

[A]

Oh no. What's that?

[B]

Well, it's very much what it sounds like, which is just air is food and I only eat air.

[A]

How did anyone survive long enough to. To write about that?

[B]

I mean, I, as I understand they, almost all of them just lied about it. Like every one of them had Their empires crumble after someone photographed them, like, eating something. Right. It's such a bizarre little lie. But that's another one where you're like, where do I even start with? Do I need to debunk this? That, like, human beings need food to survive? Is this a place that we're at? I think there are definitely times when it gets, like, so far and so ridiculous that it is, like, hard to, like. I think we try to take things seriously and sort of on their own terms and evaluate them on their own terms, and it's real hard when it's shit like that. Right? What do you prefer?

[A]

Do you prefer it when there is, like, a bit of something good in there and then it's, like, just mostly a bit messed up?

[B]

I think it makes for a better story if there's some complexity there. Like, I think quite a few of the stories that we end up telling on the show are about things where we have, like, a little kernel of research that illustrates the importance of something, but no real research on, like, how to change that thing.

[A]

Thing.

[B]

Probiotics, I think, are a really good example. There's all of this stuff out in the world about your gut microbiome. We definitely know that it matters. Nobody knows how to change it. But kombucha companies and yogurt companies and whoever else who have products that might not be quite this popular, see, like, a big marketing opportunity, and they go eat your probiotics, and then you have more of them. And scientists are like, that's not if you. There was one science writer, I think it was Ed Yong, who wrote that it's like sending a house cat. Like, if your gut microbiome is a jungle and you send down a house cat, that doesn't turn it into, like, an apartment, right? Like that. That there is sort of this idea that you're, like, introducing an element that doesn't exist, and so it's just going to die off sort of immediately. Right. I think that stuff makes for much more interesting storytelling to go, oh, there were a bunch of people with a bunch of good intentions and some folks who came along and sort of exploited that. Seems much more interesting to me than just like, look at this cuckoo bird. Although there are plenty of look at this cuckoo bird and that's also fun moments.

[A]

It's also fun.

[B]

That is also fun. That is also fun.

[A]

Now. Have we ever talked, okay, the Berlin Wall falls, right? It falls down.

[B]

This is a sharp turn for this conversation to take.

[A]

It's all connected.

[B]

Okay, great, great.

[A]

And a couple of years before that you are born. And then. Wait for it. And. But then only one year, five years before you are born. But one year before and one day after I'm born. Why do we almost. We almost have the same birthday? Have we ever talked about this?

[B]

We have not talked about this.

[A]

I'm the tenth, you're the ninth. What?

[B]

This is some real scorp on Scorp crime. What's happening? What is happening? How have we not talked about this?

[A]

And also, also, also time zones.

[B]

We.

[A]

If we were in the same place, maybe we were born on the same day.

[B]

What time were you born? We're secretly the same person. What's the. What's happening here?

[A]

You said it

[B]

just. We're like, I have, like, slightly lighter hair. We do have the same fringe. At this point, things are happening. Couple of. Couple of fat queers.

[A]

Couple of fat Scorpio queers.

[B]

That's right. That's nuts. We absolutely have not talked about that. That's wild.

[A]

What time were you born?

[B]

Oh, God, I don't know. I have some real severe second child syndrome where, like, my mom will talk about my brother's birth and she'll be like, it was 12:32pm you were beautiful. The sun was streaming in through the window. And then I'll be like, what time was I born? And she'll be like, I think it was the afternoon.

[A]

Early November.

[B]

Yeah, totally, totally. I will say, ah, this is fun. When I was in college, my dad, in, like, very classic dad form is like, just not good with dates and remembering things about people. Right? Like, I feel like this is like a very common straight relationship dynamic where there's like, a lady to remember people's birthdays and anniversaries and that kind of thing. Party dates and then a dude who's just sort of like, what? When do I show up?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when I was in college and I was in College in, like, 2000, this would have been 2004, 2005, 2006. My dad inverted the dates of my birthday and for a couple of years sent me birthday cards on 9, 11. Not 11, 9, 9, 11. And I had to call him and be like, don't you think you would remember?

[A]

Please tell me this was after 2001.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Just start receiving letters going, congratulations, 2004.

[B]

It was two on that special day. Four. Oh, today your special day? Also, would you like to know when my Dad's birthday is? November 20th. We're in the same month.

[A]

Oh, I love this so much.

[B]

It's really incredible. And he. I have Absolutely. Never stopped giving him a hard time about it. It has been a solid 20 years. Years. And I still am like, hey, remember. Oh, do you know when my birthday is? Do you actually know that? Oh, fascinating. Funny. That's funny.

[A]

Oh, that's amazing.

[B]

I'm a nightmare about it.

[A]

That's incredible. My grandfather's birthday was on the 10th of October, and my grandmother's was on the 12th of December. I was bullied a lot for not having my birthday on the 11th of November, because then it would have been 10, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12.

[B]

Oh, that's very satisfying.

[A]

The odd one out.

[B]

That's very satisfying.

[A]

Yeah. And I said to them, it's because Aubrey is on the 9th, so we had to match. Yeah. Someone in. In 20 years. And it'll be real good once we learn each other.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. We had to do it.

[A]

I was always a bit sad that it wasn't that my birthday wasn't on the 9th because I've always been very fascinated by the Berlin Wall. So my next question is, how do you feel about the fall of the Berlin Wall? Good. Do you get this question too much? Is it like a boring one?

[B]

That's right, that's right, that's right.

[A]

Oh, this one again.

[B]

I also. Yeah. That, like, the Apollo launch, like, there's just a bunch of questions that I get all the fucking time. And I'm like, enough with the Berlin Wall. Yeah. No, I don't get a lot of questions about the Berlin Wall. I will say I was sad growing up in the US Election day is the first Tuesday in November after the first Monday. So the last. I know, I know. So the last date that election day could be is November 8th. And I was always so sad as a nerd kid that I'm like, my birthday's never going to be on election day.

[A]

And I'll tell you what, you're a little, teeny, tiny nerd.

[B]

Just an absolutely, categorically unsurprising that she went into, like, electoral organizing. My God.

[A]

And my first order of business is change the date to the Wednesday after the first Monday.

[B]

That's right. How about that? How about that? That. But now, in adulthood, every November 9th feels like the saddest hangover from, like, the most garbage results ever. So, you know, you live and you learn. What are you gonna do?

[A]

I mean, this is gonna be such a boring question, so. Because I don't think I'd ever really picked up on that because so what. What if. If a president is like three Years in, he can't just be like, oh, I'm done now that he has to wait till November. Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Presidents of presidents for four years, unless he quits or is forced out of office. No one has ever been forced out of office.

[A]

No, but someone could go, I, I don't want to. Like in Denmark, it's. It's just a NATO state. Right. It's just like, you have to have. Have election by the state. So we just, they just announced today that the next election in Denmark is in March.

[B]

That's incredible. Yeah. No, we are. We're on a track where we have a president for four years, we have a senator for six years, we have a congressman for two years, and there's like, kind of nothing that you can do. There's a particularly grisly story that's happening here now about a congressman from Texas who had an extramarital affair with one of his staff people who was a subordinate. There are a bunch of text messages of him pressuring her to, like, send him nudes and that kind of thing. She died by suicide recently in, like, a particularly, like, grisly way. And Republicans are like, some Republicans, he's a Republican, some Republicans are calling for his resignation. They have a two vote majority in the House, so they don't want to lose one of those seats. So there are now a bunch of Republicans who are like, I don't know, is it that bad? And like, we should just let the voters decide. So Texas's election is this coming Tuesday, and it's looking like Republicans might just straight up be like, if the voters vote him out, then I guess that's what we're doing. Like, it's gnarly as hell. She died by self immolation. That is how she died. Like, it's like horrendous levels of. Again, I keep. We just live in the darkness over here right now. Just gremlins all around.

[A]

And then don't you feel. Isn't that, doesn't it feel weird when you then have these, like, moments of, I'm gonna go to the market and buy a sunchoke and then I'm gonna make my soup and you feel joy and then you feel this, like, contrast to, like. It feels strange, doesn't it? Like, I read. I just finished Chelsea Manning's book.

[B]

Oh, how was it? I haven't read it.

[A]

I love her and I really. Look, I love. I love both. I don't know. I don't know anything outside of the book. And of course, it's a memoir. She Wrote it. So I don't know, there might be people always being like, actually, she something. I don't know. I love her. I think it's a beautiful book. I. And she writes about in Iraq when she was stationed, about how most people are just like, getting their kids to school and, you know, like, kids playing football with each other and like, yeah, there's a wall. But, like, life has to move on. And it's just like the stuff you don't really think about that I think feels very.

[B]

I mean, I think the number of people I know who are like, I have to show up to work and act normal in meetings. Right. And, like, I have to, like, be productive on some level when I'm like, not sleeping at night and I don't know if my neighbor's gonna get taken tomorrow. And like, you know, after I get off work, I go drive around the city and see where there's ice activity and try to call it in if it's happening. Right. Like that. It is this really bizarre mix of like sort of play acting at normal life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

While things are horrendous. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like actually actively horrendous and. Yeah. And then you go to the farmer's market and I think part of it is like, I think people are so giddy to just be able to have a moment of normalcy that's not like, you know, just like horror show shit all the time. That I think that sort of enhances the whole thing too, right? Yeah. That you're so happy and relieved to just be able to be in your neighborhood with your people as part of it. I don't know. It's a. It's a really deeply strange time. Really deeply strange time.

[A]

Really deeply strange time. And a hard sentence to say. Really deeply strange time. It really made my. My mouth feel weird.

[B]

It's a vocal warm up. Red leather, yellow leather. Unique New York. Unique New York.

[A]

Really weird, deeply weird time. Thank you so much for being part of this first episode of many, I hope of just having a nice chat.

[B]

A dream.

[A]

Tell people where to find. I mean, people know. People know, but tell them anyways. Where should people go?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Where should people find you?

[B]

I am at yr Fat Friend cross plot platforms. Mostly Instagram and blue sky these days. And you can listen to maintenance phase wherever you get your podcast casts. And I have a couple of books that you can buy. Yeah. And that's where you. That's where you find me.

[A]

I love you.

[B]

I adore you.

[A]

Thank you so much for listening to that episode if you want some sweet, sweet sweet special extra bonus content, do go and sign up to Patreon or Substack and within the week you'll get an extra fun bonus episode. And there's so much fun and there are so much. Did I mention fun? Go to Patreon or Substack. The links are in the show notes and I'll see you on tour. I'll be all over the place. The Edinburgh Fringe, Soho Theater, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and all over the UK and more dates will be announced soon. Please sign up for my newsletter. The link is also in the show notes and just big thank you. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for telling people about the podcast. It's completely self produced. I don't know if I've mentioned it but I love you very much and thank you for listening and I will speak to you again soon. Thank you so much. Bye. Here's the end jingle made by me.