← Sofieland with Sofie Hagen
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- [00:00]
A
Dear citizens of Sophie Land, I will let you listen to the episode in approximately 60 seconds. But first I just want to let you know that my brand new show, I think some of this is my fault, will be going to the Edinburgh Fringe this August and then in November I'm taking it to Soho Theater in London. Then it's going on tour to Denmark, Copenhagen, Unser and Aarhus, Sweden, Melmurg and Stockholm. Then I'm going to Berlin. I'm going to Rotterdam. The UK dates have just come out which are Leicester, Sheffield, Selby, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Reading, Brighton, Cambridge, London and Exeter. Tickets can be found on sophie hagen.com link is in the show notes alongside the link for the Patreon or the substack. Because this podcast is self produced, meaning I do all of the stuff. I do the editing, the uploading, the booking of the guests, the interviews, every single effing thing. So your support means the whole world to me. So if you sign up for the Patreon or the substack, you will get extra fun bonus content and you get to support me. I really appreciate it. I really love you. Thank you so much for listening. Please enjoy this episode. Thank you. Okay, can you, for, just for my sake and the listeners, can you repeat the thing you just told me about your coffee? Because that made me so happy.
- [01:14]
B
Oh, yeah. So me and, me and Sophie are staying in an Airbnb and we've, we've bought like a few little spices and bits and bobs.
- [01:22]
A
We buy some spices, you know, some
- [01:23]
B
spices just to have while we're here for the week. And I this morning ruined my coffee because I thought I'm going to be a bougie autumnal woman. And I took a pinch of cinnamon and I stirred that into my coffee and then I took a sip and Sophie said, well, that cinnamon's not very good, is it? I said, no, it's not. And neither was the chili powder that I just stirred into my coffee. That was very bad. It was a horrible way to begin the day.
- [01:51]
A
I've told you about my yogurt before, right? When I was a child, I had yogurt with sugar on it. And then I would gradually put more and more sugar on it. So it was like half sugar, half yogurt. And my mother got mad and said I could only drizzle sugar on it. I couldn't have like a layer, a thick layer of it. And then I decided to put all the sugar in the bottom of the, of the plate of the bowl and then top it with Yogurt and then drizzle sugar on top. And I did that, and it was salt.
- [02:19]
B
Oh, wow. Oh, well, that's maybe quite a good kind of aversion therapy thing. What is it with children? Like, I. Because when you said that, I was like, oh, my God, that's so disgusting. Yogurt with sugar on it. But Weetabix, which is a real thing in the uk.
- [02:32]
A
Yeah.
- [02:32]
B
The pillowy, literal, like a heap, like a. Like, coming up out of the milk and, like, piled high, just sugar. And parents were like, there you go. There's your breakfast.
- [02:44]
A
Yeah. But also, if you hadn't done that, you would just be eating cardboard.
- [02:48]
B
Yes, those were the options.
- [02:50]
A
Yeah.
- [02:50]
B
You know, is it. Oh, God. Like, Special K and cornflakes were invented to stop masturbation.
- [03:00]
A
What?
- [03:01]
B
It was invented by, like, Dr. Kellogg back in, like, the 20s. And the point was that it was so bland and unseasoned in any way that when you ate it, it would just sort of, like, make you feel not horny, because you'd just be like, I'm not excited about anything. Genuinely true. If you have a nice, boring breakfast cereal, I guess you won't want to go and have a wank.
- [03:27]
A
That's amazing. And then who kicked down the door but Duck Martens, who was like, well, I'm gonna make people want to fuck again.
- [03:35]
B
I'm gonna make people want to step on each other.
- [03:39]
A
That's wild. I liked conflicts, but again, sugar, the ones with. I think I mainly like the sugar.
- [03:44]
B
Yes. Like, conflicts were an excuse for a hummingbird. Because often when you're tired, I try to. I get a teaspoon of sugar water, and I sort of hold it near you, and you poke back up, you dip your little tongue in it, and then you get back up.
- [03:59]
A
My first question for you, Daniel Fox, is, do you have. This is how I ask normal people this question with you. I. I feel like I know a little bit of the answer. Do you, by any chance have any strong opinions about stationary?
- [04:15]
B
I have such strong opinions about stationery.
- [04:18]
A
Oh.
- [04:19]
B
I mean, what do you want to know what I use?
- [04:20]
A
But I want to know about the notebooks. I want to know about the. What. What. What kind of stationery do you like? It's like your pen situation. What's your.
- [04:30]
B
I'm on a notebook journey at the moment. I have my favorite type of notebook, which is a company called. Damn it. What's it called? Sorry. This is annoying. Would you cut this? You're not gonna edit this. Okay.
- [04:48]
A
I mean, now I have to because you just wasted 30 seconds talking about me editing Smytheson.
- [04:54]
B
Smytheson or maybe Smithson, but it's spelled with a Y. It's a London based luxury journals company. I think I've shown you them before. I have one that's like sort of crocodile effect leather and they're in like beautiful colours and they have this like pale blue paper which has been their special patented technology from like the 1930s or something. And it's like incredibly thin and lightweight, but also solid enough to like handle like a heavy fountain pen weight without bleeding through. And it's like their patented thing and it was invented for like in the old days when like people would travel and be like writing their journals as they went and like journalists and stuff. And it's beautiful, but it is about £150.
- [05:36]
A
Jesus. But doesn't that. So you have them like. It's the same way you like art, right? Where it's like a special piece you own.
- [05:42]
B
I savor so much.
- [05:44]
A
It's not like you don't buy it to just put.
- [05:45]
B
No, that's not. My scribbling notes I have. So that is my like annual journal. Probably I'll treat myself to one and then I will journal. I have a journal that I will only fill in when something interesting has happened. Sometimes it's like a month or two and there won't be an entry and sometimes it's like a few for a week, but it really depends. But at the moment it's been like three or four months since I lost. Things have happened. I could go and write, but it's more for me to like check back in and go, wow, what an interesting year. But I'm just skipping from bit to bit and I guess since the last. And then dayto day. I mean I'm currently I've got one that's called who Are They?
- [06:20]
A
Oh, I like that. That's very. It looks very sturdy and thick.
- [06:23]
B
Yes. Stallagy.
- [06:24]
A
Stallergy.
- [06:25]
B
And they're nice. I like, I like. Okay, they're soft.
- [06:29]
A
That's a soft cover.
- [06:30]
B
I like a soft cover.
- [06:31]
A
Yeah.
- [06:32]
B
I like a five or a four. But I recently discovered, I believe B4.
- [06:39]
A
Ooh, which one's that?
- [06:42]
B
There's a B4 and there's a B5 and it's whichever one is like somewhere between a five and a four. It's a bit bigger than a five.
- [06:47]
A
Yes. A little bigger than a.
- [06:48]
B
So yeah, A little bit smaller than a 4.
- [06:50]
A
Smaller than a piece of paper.
- [06:51]
B
Smaller than a normal piece of paper. And it's nice and it has to be lined. I do need it to be thick because I love to write with. I either use.
- [06:58]
A
You mean like thick pieces of paper? Yeah.
- [07:00]
B
Well, thick quality paper.
- [07:01]
A
Yeah. You don't mean like a thick book,
- [07:03]
B
but like papers I need it to be. So I either write with like a cheap borrow or like a thin nib.
- [07:09]
A
Oh yeah.
- [07:09]
B
For some black ink. For some reason that my handwriting looks my sort of grandma ish handwriting.
- [07:14]
A
You have a really good handwriting.
- [07:16]
B
Well, thank you. Because I spent so many years trying to make it so that people would say that. You can tell I spent while everyone else was having sex as teenagers I was. I went through a phase of so pretentious. But that's who I was. And Keats's handwriting, the poet Keats to. Or Ode to Autumn.
- [07:37]
A
I was about to say Michael Keats.
- [07:38]
B
Michael Keaton handwriting. Birdman.
- [07:42]
A
Tom Keats. What's Keats name? Tom Keats.
- [07:44]
B
Keats. What is his name?
- [07:46]
A
That's not his full name.
- [07:47]
B
John.
- [07:48]
A
John Keats.
- [07:49]
B
Keats. Poet John Keats.
- [07:51]
A
It's John Keats.
- [07:52]
B
Yeah. Anyway, his handwriting and you can see like the original manuscripts on Google of his like Ode to Autumn and stuff. He has like beautiful handwriting and I used to as like a 15 year old copy it.
- [08:03]
A
That's amazing.
- [08:04]
B
Over and over and over again. And then my handwriting's not as good as that, but it's like I can see all the letters where I'm like, that's where I deliberately did my letter that way.
- [08:10]
A
That's amazing.
- [08:11]
B
So as a nice scratchy, cheap, thin nib. It doesn't need to be cheap, but like thin nib. I don't like like a rollerball or a gel.
- [08:17]
A
No.
- [08:18]
B
But I do love a fountain pen. I like a Lamy safari.
- [08:22]
A
I think that was the first thing we bonded over when you were my support act like 100 years ago.
- [08:26]
B
Yes. Medium. Medium to thin nib.
- [08:28]
A
Yeah. Because I was like, oh, but fountain pens, they hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And you were like excuse me, have you heard of Lammy?
- [08:34]
B
Because I've had expensive ones that have been so annoying and like the ink skips all the time and you're like, I can't believe I spent all this money and I keep maintaining this thing.
- [08:41]
A
Yeah.
- [08:42]
B
But it's like ruining my handwriting.
- [08:44]
A
Yeah.
- [08:44]
B
Whereas a Lamy safari, it's like 10 to 20 pounds.
- [08:49]
A
Yeah.
- [08:49]
B
It's like nothing. And they're pretty, they're refillable. They're pretty and they're nice to write.
- [08:55]
A
So soft in the hand. Yeah.
- [08:56]
B
And then I mix my own ink colors.
- [08:59]
A
Are you shitting me? Wait, how?
- [09:01]
B
Well, because you can do. Because you get the little refillable thing where you just can suck up new ink. And I just bought a good. I just Googled, like, what's a good black ink? And then currently, what I'm working with, I've got black ink and then, like, a forest green. And I do forest green, but I just put a few drops of the black ink in to make it, like, it's, like, dark.
- [09:20]
A
Wow.
- [09:21]
B
But as it dries, it's got, like, a greeniness to it, and I feel like sorcerer.
- [09:26]
A
Yeah. Oh, wow. Wait, what are your. I've never asked you about this. What are your opinions on highlighters? I've never seen you use highlighters.
- [09:34]
B
I like them. I don't think they're my aesthetic that much. I think it's more of the, like, popular girl in school who would do, like, the. Had very neat handwriting, but in a sort of bubble effect way. And she'd do, like, hearts for her dots and eyes.
- [09:48]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [09:48]
B
And then she'd, like, beautifully highlight lots of different highlights.
- [09:51]
A
Then how do you highlight?
- [09:52]
B
I'm an underliner, a circular. An asterisker.
- [09:56]
A
Okay, that's fair enough.
- [09:57]
B
I'll highlight. But I find highlighters go through the page a lot more.
- [10:00]
A
Yeah.
- [10:00]
B
And bleed. And then everything's ruined.
- [10:02]
A
Yeah, True.
- [10:02]
B
And I am someone who, if the first couple of pages are ugly, I will bin the whole book.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, as you should. Yes, as you should.
- [10:09]
B
But I have, like, so many different notebooks on the go at any one time. I'm giving you, like, 20 minutes on this. I'll have my annual journal. Then I'll have a sort of running thing that's a bit more of, like, checking in morning pages, whatever. And then I have another one that's like, lists and just, like, just a dump. Anything in old book.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah, my Muji. My Muji notebook is my list book.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah.
- [10:35]
A
Oh, it's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while.
- [10:38]
B
I could buy another after talking about this. I know. I'm sort of salivating about. We're in Manchester for, like, a few more hours. I can run out to Ryman and get a fixer and just buy one
- [10:47]
A
and get it fixed.
- [10:48]
B
Break in. They broke. And they only took one book each.
- [10:51]
A
Cigar.
- [10:52]
B
Odia.
- [10:54]
A
What's the. I mean, again? So obviously we're doing this while we've just done a million shows in a row and seen each other's shows. So you may have to go back further in your brain to answer this, but what's the latest joke that you've tried to make work on stage but that you just had to give up on because it wasn't working? That has to be the latest. It could also be like the one you regret the most. Not working.
- [11:16]
B
Well, God, there's so many now, I think referring to an overgrowth of pubic hair from just sort of. So I've been talking about it in the context of, like, getting lazy in a relationship and just sort of letting yourself go a bit. But I think it's so funny to refer to that as a dinner lady's muffin. And sometimes people laugh at it, and other times people are just like.
- [11:48]
A
So you're gonna have to break that down. So the muff means.
- [11:50]
B
Muff is like a muff. It's like a load of pubes, but a bush having a bush.
- [11:56]
A
Okay.
- [11:56]
B
And a dinner lady. Or in the us, Like a lunch lady.
- [12:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:01]
B
Is. I think. Did you ever watch recess cartoon or like, it's just typically portrayed as, like, a frumpy older woman who's got sort of terrible posture and a sort of apron on and is like, do you want more mashed potatoes? So it's like the image of her mum is what I had and maybe right now have.
- [12:25]
A
But is that a thing for penis people? Yeah. To have muffs?
- [12:31]
B
You have pubes.
- [12:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, you have pubes. But does that matter for you?
- [12:35]
B
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I think it's. Well, yeah, since the rise of the metrosexual man. But, like, I think people are grooming a bit more nowadays.
- [12:44]
A
Okay. I. I haven't had sex since Bush is back, you know, but for men, too. I don't. I didn't know Bush ever left men. It did.
- [12:54]
B
I always find it very alarming when you meet someone that's like, completely. Sure. I. Yeah, I think it depends on type of man, doesn't it? But, like, I can absolutely get on board with Bush, but I think generally people. People be manscaping.
- [13:07]
A
People be manscaping. Do you also do, like, the triangle, like the landing strip?
- [13:12]
B
I do the landing strip. Yeah. I do an arrow towards. My eyes are up here. Excuse me. My asshole's down here.
- [13:25]
A
Oh, that's very interesting. Huh? Okay.
- [13:29]
B
Bush is coming back for everyone. I think Bush is coming back for everyone. Thank. Thank God. Thank fuck.
- [13:33]
A
Am I right?
- [13:34]
B
But dinner lady's muff. Like, some people smile, but for me, that's, like, my favorite thing to say.
- [13:41]
A
It's a shame, isn't It. When they're not on board with it.
- [13:44]
B
Yeah.
- [13:44]
A
Oh, God, you're about to. You'll twist that soon. Potentially. It has already maybe started. When people are listening to this, February
- [13:52]
B
2026, it will begin and sort of creeping earlier and earlier because we keep adding dates to the start. So December 2025 and then sort of ongoing. Currently planned up to, like, the end of 2026, but I think there might be some more in 2027.
- [14:10]
A
And what are your, like, travel tips? Oh, again, we've talked about this a lot because we've traveled before together as well. Yeah, we've got, like. We've had massive plans, like travel snack bags.
- [14:22]
B
And Are we specifically talking touring?
- [14:25]
A
Yeah, I. I think so. Like. But what? Especially, like, the bits that I'm maybe. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's the same, isn't it? Almost the same. I think normal people can learn from.
- [14:36]
B
Well, I think if you're traveling for work, if you're someone that's a regular traveler, then. Yeah. But I think for me, if I was, like, just going on holiday, it's different because, yeah, I don't mind a couple of weeks of, like, I don't know, just like, I'm just in a hotel. Like, I don't know. Whereas if I'm traveling for tour, I. I think there's things around like bringing your own coffee with you. And I'm getting into coffee bags this go round. You can buy coffee bags, like tea bags. Oh, you can also buy the empty bags and put your own coffee in them. And they're just like little drawstring muslin bags. So I'm gonna, like, buy a nice coffee.
- [15:12]
A
But you don't put the bag in.
- [15:14]
B
In the water.
- [15:15]
A
You put the bag into the water.
- [15:16]
B
She would get, like, boiling hot water, and you'd pour it over a little bag with coffee grounds in it, and then that would, like, seep out into the water around, and then you can lift the bag out.
- [15:26]
A
Okay.
- [15:26]
B
Like a tea bag.
- [15:27]
A
Interesting.
- [15:28]
B
But you can then fill it with your own. Whatever your preference of coffee is, I think I'm gonna get.
- [15:33]
A
So it wouldn't be instance, instant coffee, then.
- [15:36]
B
It would just be, like, normal coffee, proper coffee. But I do like an instant coffee.
- [15:40]
A
I listen, I'm fine with them.
- [15:42]
B
Yeah. I think instant coffee's coming back in as something chic.
- [15:46]
A
Has it ever not been chic?
- [15:48]
B
Yes. Really? Yeah. Because it's like the cheap, basic sort of horrible coffee. I'll have a proper.
- [15:53]
A
Oh, instant is becoming cheap. Not just coffee in general.
- [15:56]
B
Instant is Becoming chic instant is becoming chic.
- [16:00]
A
Chic. What did I say?
- [16:02]
B
It used to be cheap.
- [16:04]
A
Okay. I think, I think I said chic the whole time, but then I mispronounced it.
- [16:09]
B
Yeah. I think it's becoming stylish, glamorous, stylish. I think you can lean in because it's like, oh, well, it's because I'm just in my little pied a terre in Paris.
- [16:16]
A
Pied a terre. Oh, God, you're teaching me so many lessons.
- [16:18]
B
I'm Emily. Yeah. So that.
- [16:21]
A
It is so humiliating being your friend. It's so humiliating being your friend. I, I. Before I knew you, I was so
- [16:28]
B
smart, but I could pronounce.
- [16:29]
A
I could pronounce all the words. You're teaching me how to say Swedish words. What was the one I couldn't say today? Simone de Beaubois.
- [16:40]
B
Oh, you can't do vwa. Simone de Beauvoir.
- [16:49]
A
Simone de Beaubar.
- [16:53]
B
Yeah. I think, like, your basics. Having a little kit with you. I think having it all in like a separate bag. Having a copy of every toiletry so you don't have to take things away from your home. Or even the full one.
- [17:06]
A
That's too heavy.
- [17:07]
B
Yeah. If you're flying, that's annoying. But like, for. If you can shove it in your car so you don't have to keep moving everything back and forth.
- [17:13]
A
Yes.
- [17:14]
B
And like, maybe like your pillow. I would. I think I'm gonna bring a pillow with me.
- [17:19]
A
Yeah.
- [17:19]
B
I can imagine that tape to like, I think just a big roll of. What's that type of gaffer tape.
- [17:27]
A
Yeah.
- [17:28]
B
So that. Or like, tapes it. Because it's so useful in a hotel.
- [17:32]
A
Yeah.
- [17:32]
B
If you need to, like, kidnap and kill someone. But if you need to, like. There's so many things. Oh, the TV has a standby thing that I can't turn off. And that light's just blaring. Oh, the curtains. So many curtains where they're like, don't fully closed, but you could strap it down, like so much you could do with it. And then I've bought the smallest I could find. Little extendy extension plug. Because I think more and more a plague on this earth. No plugs next to the beds. What's happening? You have to, like, plug your phone in at the far end of the room.
- [18:06]
A
Yeah.
- [18:06]
B
And then you lay like a snake trying to, like, reach it from your bed.
- [18:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they don't. Maybe they just want us to get off our fucking floor.
- [18:14]
B
Maybe they want us to put our fence down and just have A good night's sleep.
- [18:17]
A
They put books on the side of the.
- [18:18]
B
Whereas instead, I'm like, bringing the mattress onto the floor so I can still be with my beloved phone, my beloved wife, which is my phone.
- [18:28]
A
But, yeah, I think you're struggling a bit with sleep still. You're not good asleep.
- [18:34]
B
I'm really good at falling asleep. I just don't do it. I lay there and I'm like, one more. One more video.
- [18:41]
A
I would say that that's bad.
- [18:42]
B
Yeah, well, of course. And then I. And then I voice note you, and I go, I think I must be lacking a vitamin. Yeah, I must be lacking a vitamin. And then.
- [18:52]
A
And then I'm like, 5,000 pound test.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah.
- [18:54]
A
Check if I have.
- [18:55]
B
I'm gonna get an IV B12 drip and a vitamin D douche. And then I have a good night's sleep and I'm like, how weird that I feel better today.
- [19:07]
A
Tiredness I'm feeling. I wonder if it's something other than sleep.
- [19:10]
B
Maybe. I wonder if the tiredness I'm feeling is, like, tiredness maybe. Yeah, I just need to sleep.
- [19:15]
A
What's your new show about? Well, I mean, that is me asking us, like, tell the people. Because I've just watched it 10 times in a row.
- [19:22]
B
Because we're up here doing. Yeah, we're doing a series of work in progress shows together.
- [19:26]
A
I could probably tell you what your show is about.
- [19:27]
B
We perform each other's shows now.
- [19:28]
A
Yeah, I think it's a. It's so you. This show is so you.
- [19:33]
B
It's like a. It's a show. Well, I went through a big breakup last year, and it's sort of a show about going through a breakup and having to come out the other side and dating. But all through the lens of, like, having been raised on rom coms and, like, romantic literature and Jane Austen and period dramas and all of that sort of stuff. And Shakespeare, like, goes further back, but the sort of. Yeah, like, the disappointment of some. Also, we are currently in, like, a crisis of dating. The dating world has never been worse. I have stunning friends with interesting jobs and excellent oral skills who cannot even get a first date. Can't even get a match on the dating apps. And they're beautiful. They're like eight out of tens. Like, if you're anything above that and you're in Hollywood, 8 out of 10 and they can't get dates. It's insane and it's frustrating. And suddenly being spat out and single and having to find your way in that world is kind of what the show's about.
- [20:33]
A
Can you explain romcoms to me? Because I cannot. I just don't get. I don't get. I. What is it? Can you. Can you tell me? I want to love it. I want to like it. Like, I feel like it must be really comfortable to watch. Yeah.
- [20:47]
B
They're cozy and they're like.
- [20:49]
A
But you know what's going to happen. The. The women are always a bit like, this is something so annoying about how we're meant to find them so cute. Like, they're always, like, presented as if they're just like normal women. But it's like Julia Roberts. No, but normal.
- [21:05]
B
And she's like, that's what I love so much. Like Julia Roberts. So who's the most beautiful woman in the world?
- [21:10]
A
Yes.
- [21:11]
B
But they're stories of love and human connection. And the best ones are the 90s, the early 2000s, and some of the 80s ones where they are. It is a world. It's also just the best time in history. If I could pick one time to just, like, if we had to stop and go, that's it. I would say 2005. We were all still kind of.
- [21:31]
A
Yeah. But you. You always want to make sure it's post 9 11. You want that to have happened.
- [21:35]
B
Oh, if I could pause one time in history, it's the day of 911
- [21:40]
A
at half past 12 just to make sure it's.
- [21:43]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm so sorry. I know it's some. It's that era of, like, technology existed. We had the Internet, we had phones, but they weren't smartphones. They were tools that we used. So we could have it going around with us. But it would be like, I'm sending a tiny text where I have to be a bit conservative with my letters because it's costing me per character. And I'm gonna send a text or I'm gonna phone a friend. And you could go online. But online at that point was like, Ask Jeeves. And then like, specialist interest groups where it's like, I'm a fan of Kate Bush. So you'd go to the Kate Bush forum and you'd chat with people on there.
- [22:22]
A
Oh, my God. Wheresoever.com. the message boards.
- [22:26]
B
A World of Our Own. Harry Potter, Draco Malfoy fan fiction, which was my erotica growing up. Not now. Don't spoil her. I. Although she hated fan fiction.
- [22:37]
A
Who?
- [22:37]
B
J.K. rowling. Hated people writing fan fiction about her stuff, which I. Delicious.
- [22:42]
A
Isn't hers. Oh, no. Hers isn't. Twilight is fanfiction. Is it Twilight. That's fan fiction about something else.
- [22:49]
B
Fifty Shades of Grey is Twilight fan fiction.
- [22:51]
A
Fifty is Twilight.
- [22:52]
B
And now there's loads of that, by the way. There's loads of new films and series that are. Were originally fanfics of things. It's like a proper thing now.
- [22:59]
A
Oh, my God. Maybe I should make my. I. I did. I mean, I did a lot of fan fiction, a lot of fanfiction, but I had one that I've always shamefully, secretly, in the back of my mind, thought I'd watch that.
- [23:10]
B
Yeah.
- [23:11]
A
As a rom com. It's actually. Okay, I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna pitch it to you because. Okay, so. So we. We see a woman. She wakes up. I say woman, because she's probably 14 in the story, but let's make her more age appropriate, right? She's had another nightmare, right?
- [23:26]
B
She's.
- [23:26]
A
No, wait, sorry. We're gonna start over.
- [23:28]
B
Okay.
- [23:29]
A
Brian from Westlife wakes up. He's had a nightmare, right?
- [23:33]
B
Yeah.
- [23:33]
A
He's on the tour bus because they always have to live together.
- [23:35]
B
Yeah.
- [23:36]
A
And then he goes like. He's like, really? Like. And then the rest of the band are like, oh, Brian, did you have another nightmare? He's like, yeah. And they say, is it the girl again? He goes, yeah, I just. I just don't know who she is. Jesus reappears in all of my dreams. And they're like, oh, don't you just think it's because your wife died? And he's like, yeah, maybe it is, right? So his wife is dead. He keeps having reoccurring dreams about the same woman, right? He then goes to a concert in Copenhagen, Denmark. They do that concert. And then afterwards there's a meet and greet. And then one of these girls has brought a friend who's just, like in the background, like, kind of has her arms crossed. She, like, doesn't even care about the band. And he sees her and it's the woman from the dreams, right? And he's like, panicking, and they're all like, oh, no, Brian, are you okay? And he's just like, I have to.
- [24:22]
B
That's the girl.
- [24:23]
A
It's her. It's from the dreams. And then he, like, grabs her and he's like, please come with us on tour. And she's like, oh, Jesus, no, I can't. I don't even. I don't even know you as a band. Like, I don't even know who you are. And then they grab her in the tour bus and like, she. And you know, they. Of Course they fall in love, but it's difficult, you know, like, he just lost his wife. Carrie.
- [24:40]
B
Carrie, yeah.
- [24:42]
A
But she's like, okay, I guess.
- [24:43]
B
Have you killed off Carrie Katona in
- [24:45]
A
those in this year? Unfortunately, Tona died. Yeah, unfortunately. But wait, so, like, they get together. It's like love of. Love of each other's life. It's like, incredible. And all the other West Siders love her, of course. Like, she's just this cool girl. Like, she's cool. She, you know, she, like, doesn't even care. Like, she has, like, a messy bun.
- [25:01]
B
Right.
- [25:02]
A
And then, like, he's like, I think I'm in love with her. Like, I want to marry her. And then. But he feels so guilty.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah.
- [25:08]
A
And then Carrie appears.
- [25:10]
B
Her ghost?
- [25:11]
A
Yeah, her ghost. And is like, I give you permission to be with her. She's incredible. She's an angel. I sent her to you into your dreams because I wanted you to find a new.
- [25:22]
B
I sent you a child. I sent you a child bride.
- [25:24]
A
I feel like in the wrong room, we'd make her older. Yeah. Like 16. And then he's like, I want to marry you. And Carrie has given us permission.
- [25:34]
B
That's so nice.
- [25:35]
A
Wouldn't you watch that?
- [25:35]
B
I would also. That is the dream of every single girl and gay who's ever been a fan of a band. Like, and. And me going and seeing plays and stuff, literally being like, I will sit up in a certain way and I'll make eye contact and they'll see me and they'll go, oh, my God.
- [25:52]
A
Yeah, him, yeah, the light is just on you. Everyone else, they have no faces. It's just you.
- [25:57]
B
Oh, my God. I once saw Lin Manuel Miranda sitting across from me at in the Heights. And it was like a surprise that he was coming to see the show. And all of these, like 13 to 16 year old girls that come, who they were, they were mega fans of him. Were crying so hard seeing it was sort of like in the round. So we were like directly across from him. They were like gagging. They were like. Of the. Like, how. How much they were crying at how in love they were with him. And then they spent the whole show singing and mouthing and, like, dancing in their seats, but not looking at the stage. Looking directly into his eyes as if he just saw. If he saw them singing his words, they would. He would leave his wife and kids and be like, come with me, child.
- [26:51]
A
But also, no one's a fan of Lynn. Like, we love his work and his talent and his brain.
- [26:56]
B
Nothing else about him, though.
- [26:57]
A
No, we don't want to marry him.
- [26:58]
B
Have you read his tweets from, like, four or five years ago?
- [27:02]
A
Every morning he would go like, good morning, everyone.
- [27:04]
B
Or like, oh, sorry. Far worse than that. This is not an exaggeration. Lin Manuel Miranda, 2017. Hey, you bite slip. Yeah.
- [27:19]
A
Oh, no.
- [27:20]
B
Hey, you bite slip. Yeah. You shrugged shoulders. I think you got this side smile on, Mel.
- [27:29]
A
No.
- [27:29]
B
Go out there and face the world today, because do you know what? Scratch his head. I think you're pretty special.
- [27:36]
A
Oh, my God.
- [27:37]
B
And like, that's.
- [27:38]
A
Oh, my God.
- [27:38]
B
That's not even the worst. It would literally, word for word, verbatim. That's for basement.
- [27:41]
A
I can feel, like, my womb swiveling off, like, oh, no, that's horrible. But that's what I mean. You can't fancy him.
- [27:47]
B
No, he's not fancy.
- [27:49]
A
He's like, respectable.
- [27:50]
B
Talented. Yeah, Yeah.
- [27:52]
A
I love his work, but I would never, like, sit on him.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah.
- [27:55]
A
Like, also. Was that in London?
- [27:57]
B
Yes.
- [27:57]
A
Like, just, like, fairly recent.
- [27:59]
B
Well, it could have been longer again, that. But it was when in the Heights was in London and it was like,
- [28:04]
A
a couple of nights before it closed. Right.
- [28:06]
B
Yeah.
- [28:07]
A
You saw it the day after me. I don't think we knew each other this. Because I remember seeing it. And then the next day, everyone was like, oh, my God. And I was like, go yourself. I was one day late.
- [28:17]
B
Yeah. I had a friend who was, like, working on it as a runner or something.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah.
- [28:20]
B
In fact, I think they needed us
- [28:24]
A
to do a solo.
- [28:25]
B
Yes. I think they needed me and a friend to like. Oh, my God. We were sitting next to him. We were sitting next to him because they needed to put some people who weren't freaks and weren't strangers to like, make sure that those seats were not occupied by weirdos. And I had such a good view of the girls because I was looking directly across at them.
- [28:45]
A
That's wild.
- [28:47]
B
They were looking almost at me, but they were looking at. Yeah, they put buffers.
- [28:50]
A
They had to get buffers around, like.
- [28:51]
B
Yes.
- [28:52]
A
That's how I job to have. Like. I'm the normal person that has to sit next to celebrities.
- [28:56]
B
Yeah.
- [28:57]
A
So I don't grab them.
- [28:58]
B
Yeah.
- [28:59]
A
That's so weird.
- [29:00]
B
Yeah. What was your question?
- [29:03]
A
What was my question? Oh, I think my question was, would you watch my rom com about Brian?
- [29:10]
B
Explain rom coms.
- [29:11]
A
Yeah. Before that, I wanted you to explain why they're good.
- [29:13]
B
But I also know you've written one. Yeah. I feel like I've written an Excellent one.
- [29:16]
A
350 of them. When I was a teenager.
- [29:18]
B
It's like the coziness and the funness. But also you were saying, oh, they're always meant to be normal women, but. But I think they did some fascinating things. Like, I love Notting Hill, where Julia Roberts is not a normal woman.
- [29:29]
A
No, that's true.
- [29:30]
B
She's like the thing you said, she's the most beautiful woman in the world. One of the taglines in it is, she's the most beautiful woman in the world. And they're like, she's like the biggest star of the day. And at that point, she was. She'd just done, like, a couple of other major films. It was really fun. It was a bit like with A Star Is Born, the newer one where Lady Gaga is like, wow, she's one of the best singers and the most famous people in the world. And you're like, yeah. And she is. So it's quite fun watching that.
- [29:57]
A
But I think this Eat, Pray, Love, where she's having a conversation with what's the hot guy in she meets in the first place? That's not Javier. What's his face?
- [30:06]
B
Franco. One of the Franco.
- [30:07]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah, the Franco guy. And they're just having a comment. This is like a conversation. And I cannot watch that without thinking. You would not be talking about this. You would immediately go, we're both beautiful.
- [30:19]
B
We're so beautiful.
- [30:20]
A
We're so beautiful.
- [30:21]
B
Oh, my God. Should we talk about this?
- [30:22]
A
We're the only we. I've been looking for someone who would get this. No one else gets this. My other ugly friends don't get it. That you wouldn't just sit next to each other and be like, hey, yeah, what's up? She's wearing overalls, so you can't tell. She's the most beautiful woman.
- [30:36]
B
Now that we're alone, should we talk about the fact how beautiful we are? This is insane.
- [30:40]
A
It's wild, isn't it? This is insane. You know how people keep staring at us? Yeah. What's that about? Because we're so beautiful. So beautiful.
- [30:46]
B
I might start doing that.
- [30:48]
A
That would be.
- [30:49]
B
So when a friend is. Can we talk about how beautiful?
- [30:51]
A
Just like, if you're three people and one leaves, you can go, oh, my God. But she'd never leave. Why? She just doesn't get it.
- [30:56]
B
She's bringing the table down.
- [31:00]
A
So I think that brings me out of it. I'm just watching these beautiful people love each other, and I'm like, well, that's good for you.
- [31:05]
B
Well, but then, no, I think women. Well, the prime example of that Is Bridget Jones true?
- [31:13]
A
Fair enough.
- [31:13]
B
Where it's like, oh, I'm so a terrible British accent. Oh, I'm so fat. And I. Oh, I'm so poor because I just have a normal job and I live in a three bedroom house like in Soho or something. And it's like, well, I don't know what's going on. Which is slightly of its time.
- [31:32]
A
Sure.
- [31:33]
B
Oh, and Love, actually. Have you seen Love actually?
- [31:36]
A
I think I've seen Love, actually, where
- [31:37]
B
they keep banging on about this woman being like, she's got such a big bottom. She's so fancy.
- [31:41]
A
She's like size 8.
- [31:41]
B
Objectively thin. Yeah. Like you'd be like, go. Is quite slim, actually. A bit too slim. And those. But then those ones aren't my favorites.
- [31:50]
A
Oh, which ones are your favorite?
- [31:51]
B
All the Julia Roberts ones. Pretty Woman.
- [31:54]
A
I don't remember.
- [31:55]
B
Not a normal woman. She's a sex worker.
- [31:59]
A
To be fair, I. Oh, what. What does it say other ones? You work on commission.
- [32:08]
B
Oh, yeah. She's like, big mistake. Huge.
- [32:12]
A
Huge. So pretty.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah, she's beautiful. But she's also meant to be. And also.
- [32:17]
A
Yeah. And when she laughs and she chuck.
- [32:20]
B
Oh, God. Oh, so good. But it's so interesting. Like, I think they were doing interesting things with them. They've not made many good ones since. I couldn't name you a rom com that's been excellent in the. Maybe there's been like one in the last, like 10 years, but not really.
- [32:34]
A
The Holiday.
- [32:35]
B
I liked the Holiday is fantastic.
- [32:37]
A
Yeah, I liked the Holiday.
- [32:38]
B
I can play and I did only about six days ago. I can play Maestro from the Holiday, the main soundtrack, and burst into tears at a moment's notice, but just tears of like, raw emotion. Cameron Diaz running down that snow laden track. And it's just like such. It's the only film where Jack Black is fuckable.
- [33:00]
A
I disagree.
- [33:02]
B
You think there's more?
- [33:03]
A
I think every single film he's ever been in, he has been so fuckable.
- [33:06]
B
He's attractive.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah.
- [33:08]
B
It's the Skibidi Bibbidi B. Oh, I'm a Scooby Doo. Like all of that stuff all over him. They kept a real rain on him. He does it like once or twice in the Holiday, but you can kind of ignore it. Jude Law's beautiful in it.
- [33:22]
A
What's the one closer? Is that a rom com?
- [33:24]
B
I don't really know. I think that's a slightly weird one.
- [33:27]
A
I like cl. Jude Law and What's that other guy's name? Clive Oven. Cl when he's like oh, he's like you. Oh, he's so good. They're like arguing. I like it when they argue and they're being really mean to each other.
- [33:39]
B
Well, the best rom com of all
- [33:42]
A
time, let's say at the same time. One, two, three.
- [33:45]
B
Titanic. Sorry, Carol, which one's that? The sad lesbian film with Cate Blanchett and Rooney Mara.
- [33:52]
A
Oh, I have not seen that.
- [33:53]
B
Have you not seen that?
- [33:54]
A
No, but go on.
- [33:55]
B
It's a rom. It's a. It's a rom sad.
- [33:59]
A
A rom sad.
- [34:00]
B
Rom sad.
- [34:01]
A
Les rumless sad.
- [34:02]
B
Rom les sad.
- [34:04]
A
Go on.
- [34:04]
B
It's just them in like 50s New York drifting around in like furs and gloves and sort of making euphemisms about sex. And then eventually they do her sort of repressed, glamorous.
- [34:16]
A
You lost me at 50s. That sounds old fashioned.
- [34:18]
B
Yes, well, yes, but it's all lesbian.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah, fair enough.
- [34:24]
B
Titanic.
- [34:25]
A
Titanic.
- [34:26]
B
Well, until the crash. Yeah.
- [34:28]
A
Rom disaster. Oh, I don't know. Does it not make me miss being in love?
- [34:36]
B
Oh, my God.
- [34:36]
A
Yeah.
- [34:37]
B
Well, that's why I cry at the thing. Yeah. It gives me. But it gives me hope. And I think there's also just about like the general. I feel so disingenuous saying this because I've just been talking about this in my show, but it's just like the general vibe of them.
- [34:53]
A
Yeah.
- [34:53]
B
Is that era of like, there was a bit more human connection and people are. People are meeting by like looking up and like talking to one another and being flirty.
- [35:02]
A
And it's like, I guess I never do online dating in rom coms.
- [35:05]
B
No, very rarely. And like, you know, I'm sure there are some modern ones where they do, but like, it's about. It's all about human connection and it's also about like, connection with family. And it's. There's always like weird little quirky British traditions and all American traditions or whatever and like Thanksgiving and Christmases and like kooky friendship groups and like all of that. And it just makes you go, oh, I could be seeking out a bit more of this joy in my life. I could be throwing weird themed dinner parties where everyone has to come as Henry VIII or whatever, like that sort of random that they're always doing. And you go, oh, I'm not using my. I'm not using my free will as much as I could be. And as the tick tock could say,
- [35:46]
A
yeah, what's the most. Have you had any romantic. It was like the most romantic things that's happened in your life. You must have had like, romantic.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, one that's popping up, but it's not so much romantic. It's just, like, really lovely. Was me and my ex, but getting Paddy, our dog, and just, like, sitting in the car holding him when we first got him, like, ready to drive home, and just, like, both looked at each other and looked down this baby and just burst into all. We both just burst into tears. We were just like, oh, this is like, our little family now. And we'd, like, looked up in advance what music dogs like.
- [36:26]
A
Oh, my God.
- [36:26]
B
Which was. If you Google what music do dog. One of them is Ed Sheeran's Joker and the Queen, which is apparently just a good. And I'm not a massive Ed Sheeran fan. It's a good mix of, like, acoustic soft, blah, blah, blah, things that dogs like. So we're just sort of listening to that on a loop. So now every time I listen to that song, I'm, like, ridiculous, because I'm not even an Ed Sheeran aficionado, but I do well up a bit of being, like, that time.
- [36:51]
A
Imagine, like, a meme which is just, like, a drawing of Ed Sheeran writing
- [36:55]
B
the article called, I mean, genius, because then there'll be loads of people playing it. Like, my Spotify wrapped was fucked that year. Because when was, like, your Spotify wrapped, and it was three different versions of Joker and the Queen, which makes me look deranged.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah, Mine's all classical music.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah, well, because of, like, writing playlists and stuff.
- [37:15]
A
Yeah, that too. But also just Hank.
- [37:17]
B
Oh, yeah, exactly.
- [37:18]
A
We just fall asleep. So classical music.
- [37:20]
B
Mine's gonna be, like, your favorite song is three hours of white Noise. But then I don't know, because my ex was. Adam was very good at looking you in the eye and saying something very sincere. And I, at the start of that relationship was very, like, British irony embarrassment. So I would always be like. And, like, sort of laugh and sort of shove him away when he would try and be romantic. But by the end of that relationship, I'd learned from him how to just, like, say something romantic to someone. So that sort of just as a journey was quite romantic in itself of, like, being with someone that was able to go like, I love you so, like, I'm obsessed with you. Like, that kind of stuff was. That was romantic. But, yeah, I guess the dog thing.
- [38:09]
A
I guess the dog thing.
- [38:10]
B
I guess the dog thing.
- [38:11]
A
I know. I think there's something about. I mean, we're recording this before Christmas. Christmas is, like, it's the most romantic season easily. That's so annoying.
- [38:20]
B
Yeah.
- [38:21]
A
So I'm being single around Christmas, but
- [38:24]
B
then even just also quite like it in a sort of melancholy, angst way.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah, it would be nice to have. But yeah, it's that thing of going, oh, so just that imagining having some. Oh, God.
- [38:36]
B
Is there anything better in this world than being home for the holidays and having someone that you're at the excited texting phase with. Oh, I remember you're not in a relationship. You're like, a few weeks into someone new and your family are like. You're like, hang out with your family, but you're constantly checking your phone and it's like, lighting up pretty regularly because you're still. No one's ghosting anyone. And you're like. And you sort of see something, you, like, smirk and they're like, what are you looking at? You're like, oh, nothing. Or they start being like, I think Daniel's talking to someone. And then you go out for dinner and you, like, sort of put your phone away for an hour a bit. And then you sort of look and you're like. And on Christmas Day, like, who will text each other first? And it's like, oh, he did. Oh, my God.
- [39:18]
A
And like, what'd you get?
- [39:20]
B
You, like, pop up to your room sometimes because I'm gonna do a voice note and whatever. Thrilling. Like, I. If you could bottle that.
- [39:27]
A
Yeah. And light it as a candle and
- [39:29]
B
shove out my ass. That's my answer to everything.
- [39:34]
A
I have not dated or had any, like, Daisy things whilst voice notes was a thing in my life. I've not been in the pit where I've never voice noted with someone I
- [39:44]
B
fancied going, it is life saving. There have been a few people recently where, because I would say voice knitting's really come into its own in the last, like, four years.
- [39:56]
A
Yeah.
- [39:57]
B
Probably like, post lockdown, right? Yeah, probably, yeah. That it really is here. So only really in my, like, now that I'm dating again, have I voice noted people a bit. And there have been a couple of guys where we've sort of been on the journey towards the idea of maybe going on a first date, but no one's asked anyone yet. But we're at the point where we've spoken for a day or two and it's maybe coming. And I just sort of just had like a sixth sense where I've been like, hang on, I need to check something. And I've just sent them a voice note just to initiate that, to be like, oh, this is what I'm up to today. How are you? And I had a guy recently respond, hello.
- [40:38]
A
Pretty good, thank you.
- [40:41]
B
It's been a fun weekend. Thank God that I did this and didn't spend an evening with you. Oh, like on a date with you? Yeah, thank God I can go.
- [40:55]
A
Oh, oh, oh.
- [40:57]
B
Bye.
- [40:58]
A
But that's what I mean. The only real date I've like the only. But one of the very few dates I've been on, it was only because he was like a sort of musician. So there were videos of him on YouTube doing interviews so I could verify who's like a real person who spoke normally.
- [41:15]
B
That's nice.
- [41:15]
A
That was. Otherwise you just don't know.
- [41:18]
B
Can I say something scandalous?
- [41:20]
A
Please.
- [41:20]
B
How rude can I be on this?
- [41:21]
A
Yeah, very rude.
- [41:23]
B
Okay. One of my friends, and they will rename nameless, was chatting with a guy who was in a long term relationship and she was messaging this guy sexually. Well, he was like sexting her. I mean, she's single, but. But knowing he had a girlfriend. Anyway, they were sexting and his girlfriend found him out and broke up with him because he went on their DMs and he found. She found. Sorry. She went on his DMs, the girlfriend went on his DMs, the girlfriend Went on the DMs and she found an audio recording that my friend had sent of her. Audio of her wet vagina.
- [42:07]
A
Oh, I hadn't even considered you could do that.
- [42:12]
B
Just a, like a nude.
- [42:14]
A
But it's audio.
- [42:15]
B
Just an audio nude.
- [42:17]
A
An audio nude.
- [42:18]
B
An audio. Just a squelching recording. Just a recording of some wet sounds. I don't know what a male one.
- [42:28]
A
You can hear it. You can hear a male one. Oh, like the, like the.
- [42:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Well, actually, isn't there a really popular like audible. But it's for audio porn.
- [42:39]
A
Yeah, yeah. What's it called? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly which one you mean. Yeah, that's it. But that's mostly men reading stories, I think.
- [42:46]
B
Yes. Whereas, well, I guess in the old days people used to phone and with
- [42:51]
A
the, the classic, yeah, Camilla and.
- [42:54]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [42:57]
A
That's so interesting.
- [42:58]
B
So interesting how? Well, that's another thing. That would be another thing I'd like as a, as a tester. Before I meet someone, I want to hear their voice and then I want to be like, can I just hear you thud it against something?
- [43:13]
A
Yeah, that'll do.
- [43:14]
B
I don't need to see a picture, but can I just hear. Yeah, see you at Costa.
- [43:19]
A
I gotta go on YouTube and search for like a big, big table breaking in the middle.
- [43:24]
B
Salami hits table.
- [43:27]
A
Well, thank you for that lovely piece of gossip. I'll speak to you again next week.
- [43:31]
B
See you next week.
- [43:34]
A
Thank you so much for listening to that episode. If you want some sweet, sweet, sweet special extra bonus content, do go and sign up to Patreon or Substack and within the week you'll get an extra fun bonus episode. And there's so much fun. And there are so much. Did I mention fun? Go to Patreon or Substack. The links are in the show notes and I'll see you on tour. I'll be all over the place. The Edinburgh Fringe so theater, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and all over the uk and more dates will be announced soon. Please sign up for my newsletter. The link is also in the show notes and just big thank you. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for telling people about the podcast. It's completely self produced. I don't know if I've mentioned it, but I love you very much and thank you for listening and I will speak to you again soon. Thank you so much.
- [44:23]
B
Bye.
- [44:24]
A
Here's the end jingle made by me.