Investigating Globemaster Down: Soviet Espionage and a Failed Nuclear Plot

Summary

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SOFREP Radio – “Investigating Globemaster Down: Soviet Espionage and a Failed Nuclear Plot”

Host: Rad (SOFREP Radio)
Guest: Todd Roberson (Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, author of “Globemaster Down”)
Date: April 30, 2026
Duration: ~1 hour

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, SOFREP Radio host Rad interviews acclaimed journalist Todd Roberson about his new book, “Globemaster Down,” which unravels the mysterious 1951 crash of a C-124 Globemaster loaded with classified cargo—possibly an atomic bomb—during the tense early days of the Cold War. The discussion explores postwar U.S. nuclear strategy, Soviet espionage, the cloak-and-dagger world of top-secret military operations, and how one lost aircraft left generations searching for answers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Todd Roberson’s Adventurous Background

• Early Life and Instinct for Adventure
  • Survived dangerous childhood incidents (shot at, fell off roofs, lost in Colorado mountains for two days) by age 17.
  • Early realization: “I knew from that point forward, I was a survivor and I was an adventurer.” (09:05)
• Journalism Journey
  • Inspired by teachers, entered journalism in college during Watergate era.
  • Quickly achieved success: “Within eight months, I had won national, state, and regional awards in journalism.” (14:04)
• War Reporting Career
  • Covered conflicts in El Salvador, Lebanon (kidnapped by Hezbollah), Afghanistan, Israel/Palestine, and more.
  • Notable anecdote: Survived being shot at by a Special Forces poser in Afghanistan; maintained composure:

    “There are certain people who, when they experience high levels of pressure and danger, their alert system comes into play and they actually do the opposite of panic. … That’s how I survived to be able to do this interview today.” (18:20)

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2. The Globemaster Down Incident: Context and Secrecy

Historical Setting

• Immediate post-WWII, dawn of the Cold War.
• U.S. notices USSR hasn’t demobilized; concern of Soviet ambitions in Europe.

Strategic Air Command (SAC) Mission

• Secret plan to position U.S. atomic weapons in Britain as a deterrent.
• Facing political resistance:

  “No European nation would openly, publicly say, ‘Yes, United States, bring in your atomic weapons.’” (23:07)

• SAC led by Gen. Curtis LeMay; Paul T. Cullen tapped to command first UK base.

The Crash

• Aircraft: C-124 Globemaster, tail number 490244.
• On board: 53 crew, atomic attack specialists, and potentially a “Fat Man” bomb or components (cargo weighed 10,395 lbs, almost exactly as a Fat Man bomb).
• Ditching: Made it 2/3 across the Atlantic, suddenly veered 300 miles south, ditched in the ocean without distress call.
• Aftermath: No human remains or most cargo recovered; only bits of wood, a briefcase, and no sign of supposedly buoyant items like 8,000 surgical sponges.

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3. Nuclear Secrets, Espionage, and Sabotage

Broken Arrow Phenomenon

• “Broken Arrow”: U.S. military term for loss or theft of a nuclear weapon.
• Numerous incidents acknowledged, but many unrecovered cases remain classified even 75 years later.

  “If an atomic weapon has been lost and has not been recovered, the documents related to that cannot be released.” (33:03)

Espionage

• Manhattan Project compromised early: Soviet spies (e.g., Klaus Fuchs) kept Stalin apprised.
• “U.S. nuclear, the most secret aspect of the entire war had already been compromised.” (37:20)
• Security at U.S. airbases was almost nonexistent, an exploitable vulnerability.

Potential Sabotage

• Theories include:
  • Deliberate sabotage or misdirection after infiltration.
  • Soviet ships/subs possibly in the area at the time of crash.
  • Orders given to destroy sensitive material in the event of imminent capture.

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4. The Human Factor: Command Vulnerabilities and Consequence

Brigadier General Paul T. Cullen’s Secret

• Cullen engaged in an illicit affair (and marriage) with Red Cross worker Reva Hurwitz while married in D.C.

  “He should have rightfully been drummed out of the military, but they didn’t do any background checks on him.” (46:10)

• Double marriage created a blackmail/espionage risk.
• Discovery only came when both “wives” applied for survivor benefits after his disappearance.

Family Impact

• Roberson’s wife’s grandfather was among the crew lost aboard; his story (and the family’s quest for truth) was the spark for the book.

  “He went through his life believing his father was still alive … he must still be alive. … They know that the Air Force lied to them about how the plane disappeared.” (61:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Survival Instincts:

  “I knew from that point forward, I was a survivor and I was an adventurer.”
  — Todd Roberson, (09:05)

• The Cold War Dilemma:

  “They realized that the easiest method, which was just to load atomic bombs into B-29s in the United States and fly them over to attack the Soviets, was not viable. … If the Soviets actually invaded en masse … they were going to have already swept across the continent before US planes were in the air.”
  — Todd Roberson, (23:07)

• On Official Secrecy:

  “After 75 years, there’s something still so secret that you can’t release it?” (National Archives archivist, regarding classified documents on lost nuclear weapons)
  — Todd Roberson, (33:03)

• On Military Vulnerabilities:

  “Security at Wendover [AAB] didn’t even have fences around … they didn’t think they needed to. … They were already worried about security.”
  — Todd Roberson, (39:48)

• On Family Loss:

  “This letter arrives, this Easter card arrives saying, ‘Jim, have a happy Easter, I love you, etc.’ He went through his life believing his father was still alive. … They know the Air Force lied to them…”
  — Todd Roberson, (61:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Todd’s Early Adventurous Life: 06:17 – 10:41
• Journalistic Path and War Reporting: 11:38 – 19:08
• Entering the Globemaster Down Story:
  • The strategic challenge post-WWII: 20:07 – 23:07
  • The mission and mysterious crash: 27:27 – 32:10
• Discussion of Broken Arrow, nuclear secrecy: 32:49 – 36:39
• Soviet Espionage Implications: 37:20 – 39:21
• Security Lapses & Breach (Gen. Cullen): 44:24 – 47:35
• The Aftermath, survivors & untraceable cargo: 49:04 – 53:19
• Significance for Families, 75th Anniversary: 57:56 – 61:20

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Tone, Style, and Audience Connection

• Camaraderie & Banter: The host and guest maintain a conversational, approachable, but knowledgeable tone. Personal anecdotes and humor (especially about bigamy, “Red Sparrow,” and 1940s marital communications) lighten the heavy content, making the episode accessible.
• Respect for Loss: The episode ends on a somber and respectful note, recognizing the real human cost for the lost crew and their families.
• Credibility & Integrity: Roberson emphasizes the gap between what can be proved and what must be left open due to secrecy, showing journalistic caution.

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Summary Takeaways

• The 1951 Globemaster crash remains one of the most mysterious and consequential unresolved “Broken Arrow” incidents—entwining postwar military strategy, Soviet espionage, and the personal tragedies of lost service members.
• Roberson’s investigation uncovers bureaucratic secrecy, potential sabotage or espionage, and systemic vulnerabilities that echo into today’s strategic landscape.
• “Globemaster Down” is both an investigative drama and a memorial to those who disappeared in the service of a secretive, dangerous mission during the most volatile stretch of the Cold War.

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Final Thought:
If you’re fascinated by military history, Cold War intrigue, and untold stories of heroism and secrecy, Roberson’s “Globemaster Down” is a must-read—both as a work of historical detective work and as a testament to the human cost of global rivalry.

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Transcript

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[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

When Kohler, global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable cast iron, I said, I'm in. Soon after, I was in their Kohler Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron, poured enamel applied by hand and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artisans and seeing it firsthand gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I am proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated [e-mail] as the Kohler cast Iron Ambassador. I say long live cast iron.

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Brute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're listening to softweb Radio, Special operations, military news, and straight talk with the guys in the community. Hey, what's going on? It's rad. I am the host of Soft Rep Radio. Hey, thanks for tuning in. And I have a wonderful show to discuss with you today. But first, before I introduce you to my guest again, you already know who it is because you clicked on the link. But first, I'm trying to be suspenseful here. So before I introduce you to him, let me tell you a little bit about the merch store. All right, let me just get that out there. We have a merch store. You just go to softwareup.com merch and you can just select any of the cool items that have been made for you to wear, drink out of, you know, put on your keychain. We really love seeing you guys tag us on Instagram and social media with Soft Rep Mafia. And so please continue to do so and thank you for supporting the show. I love you. Second, we have a book club. And if you're new to the show, welcome aboard. And if you're a repeat listener, you already know I'm going to say that reading a book is like going to the gym for your mind. And I say it every single time. And it's like a broken record. Your brain is a muscle. It needs knowledge. Knowledge is power. You want to be powerful, read a book. Okay, so the folks [e-mail], all the operators behind the scenes have curated this book club for you who they think would like, you know, what they picked out. So go check out softrep.com book club. Okay. Okay, we got that out of the way. And again, welcome to the first time listeners, today's show. We're going to be talking about the book Globemaster down with the author, Todd Robertson, who has joined me. Welcome to the show.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Thank you very much.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

You're super cool, bro. So hang tight. I'm going to read your bio. Okay? So stand by. Here we go. Todd Robertson is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who has spent over 25 years as a foreign correspondent. He has covered wars throughout Latin America, the Middle East, Afghanistan, and has provided guest commentary for cnn, msnbc, National Public Radio, which is npr. Love npr, Sky News, Telemundo. Love Telemundo. Roberson holds a master's degree in Arab Studies from Georgetown University and has won awards for investigative journalism and reporting on international human smuggling rings. He has lived in Lebanon, Mexico, El Salvador, Panama, Colombia, and the United Kingdom. And speaks Spanish and Arabic. All right, Is that a good way to introduce you?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Wow. You got it all. You got it all.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Oh, well, Shukin. I think that's how you say thank you in Arabic.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Shukran. Shukran.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Shukran. Shukran. How's it going for it? All right. Shukran. Well, thank you. Okay. And thank you very much and welcome to the show. Dude, thanks for wanting to be on.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

I'm thrilled to be here.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Well, I'm thrilled to have you. I mean, okay, here, let's go back to Todd, the 17 year old. Okay, let's just crack that open. What was Todd, the 17 year old, thinking about doing in his life?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Wow. By the time Todd reached 17, he had already been through a number of hair raising incidents, including an encounter at age five with a guy, a group of guys with bows and arrows who were threatening to shoot us, my brother and me, at close range if we didn't hand over, I think some birds nests that we found or something like that. I fell off the garage roof at age 7 onto solid concrete. Spent some time in the hospital. I was shot at when I was a freshman in high school while riding my bicycle home from a friend's house at night. And I took a shortcut that apparently somebody didn't want me to take. And let's see, then I got lost in the mountains my junior year of high school, in between my junior and senior year of high school. And they had to launch a big rescue operation in Colorado to find me and bring me back. So, yeah, by age 17, I clearly had a bent for adventure and I clearly was someone who was both interested in the. In the headlines and making headlines. So

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

in the Colorado mountains being lost, you were literally lost though, right?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes, in between Durango and Silverton. I always knew where I was, but nobody else knew where I was. And so I found my way back to, to where I knew they would find me. And they sent in a helicopter and found me.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

How many days were you in the mountains? Just a day or just like, did mom and dad say, hey, where's Todd?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

It was two days.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Two days?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Two days I was gone.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yeah. So there was a search and rescue expedition sent out for you. Mom and dad were like, where are you? Yeah.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Launch launched by the sheriff in, in Silverton, Colorado.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Thank you, Silverton, Colorado Sheriff's Department. We appreciate your effort and going into the backwoods and rescuing individuals who decide to go out on their own at 16 years old, 17 years old.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Kids don't do this.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Were you a Boy Scout at all? Did you ever go through scouts or anything like that?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

I. I was a Boy Scout, yes. I didn't make it to. Actually, I was a Cub Scout. I never made it to Boy Scouts. My. My brother did. My oldest brother did, but I never made it that far.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

But you had some scouting. You know, hey, this is how we kind of get along. I get that. I'm just trying to put. Put this young man in perspective here for folks like, you know, we've all gone off. I go hiking in the mountains with my family, my wife. It's like. But for two days. How did you survive that? I know that we have a book to talk about, but I'm curious. How did you survive that two days?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Well, I. I had no food, no water, and. And I was pretty delirious by the. The end of it all. But luckily, I had enough of my mental faculties to know that I needed to get to an open place where the rescuers could find me. And it was very hard because I had badly injured my right foot. And so I kind of limped over to where I knew my sister and brother. My sister and her boyfriend at the time were camping with me, and I. I got separated from them. And. And, and, yeah, that's so. So I just. They. They went out to get help, and when I got back, they had left the campsite. Exactly. Intact, believing that I would find my way back. And sure enough, I did, but they were gone by the time I got there. And I actually, I was up very high on a mountain and. And saw them leaving, and I was shouting down to them, don't leave. Don't leave. And I couldn't get down in time because I had hurt my foot. So that's what happened. But. But the bottom line is, I knew from that point forward, I was a survivor and I was an adventurer. The very next summer I went, I bought quality camping gear and quality boots and went back and. And got back on that horse and continued a life of adventure after that.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Okay, and that's the podcast, everybody. That is the harrowing story that we were just here to crack today. I had no idea. That is amazing. First of all, I can only imagine I would maybe cry a little bit and realize, okay, they just left me. Now I'm all by myself. I probably have a little emotional breakdown. And then I'd have to regroup and be like, okay, it's me, me, myself, and I. And get down. However like you said, you were injured. Holy cow. That's really cool. So did that. Oh, man, I got so many questions off of this. So, Todd, when you are now senior in high school, you've gone through this ordeal of being lost in the woods, and, you know, everybody's come to their senses. Their mom and dad aren't mad anymore at your sister, okay, or her boyfriend and not at you. And everybody's all happy. What took you to, you know, being like the resume that I just read to you, you know, it says you're a prize, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. You spent over 25 years a foreign correspondent. What took you into that path of the foreign correspondent, you know? And how old were you when that happened?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Well, I was involved in journalism in high school. I was the sports editor of the high school yearbook. And I had known since third grade that I was a good writer. My third grade teacher, Ms. Bittner, held up an essay that I wrote and read it out to the class and said, this is an example of excellent writing. And. And ever since then, I knew that I could write well. Got into college and didn't really know what to do with my life. I was going to the University of Texas. And back then you didn't declare a major until the end of your sophomore year. So I went in to see a counselor, not really sure what to do. And he said, well, what do you think you want to do? And I said, I don't know, be an English major. And he goes, yeah, well, let's talk about job prospects for English majors. There's not really a lot you can do with an English degree. And at the time, you know, it was the Woodward and Bernstein era. Watergate was hot in the news. And he said, you know, you're a writer. Why don't you try journalism? And I said, I don't know. And he goes, well, I gotta tell you, you're already listed as a journalism major. Maybe it's a computer glitch or something, but that's what your major is already set on my files. And he said, just give it a try. Take Journalism 101 and see how you do. And it instantly clicked. And so the professor again held out my work as the best in the class. And that summer, I decided to go up to Lubbock, Texas, and hang out with my brother. We roofed houses for the summer. And then we came home one day and there was a fire at one of the fraternities at Texas Tech fraternity houses. And so I just grabbed a notepad and a pencil and walked over There, fresh with my grimy clothes from roofing houses in 107 degree heat. And I interviewed the fire chief, looked around the ruins of the fire, walked into the school newspaper and said, did you have anybody covering this? And they said, no. And I said, well, I can write a story. And they said yes. So I sat down on the spot, wrote a story for them, and then landed a job on the university newspaper and just decided I would stay at Texas Tech.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

So I just kept riding that wave. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And I. Within, within eight months, I had won national, state, and regional awards in journalism. Top awards. And so I knew I was in the right place.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

That's awesome. And so you've just been trucking along in journalism. You know, you've been all over the world covering all sorts of different types of conflicts. And, you know, is there anything that just, you know, other than Globemaster down, which we're going to talk about, which is your book, go check it out. If you really want to know what we're going to talk about, it's Globemaster Down. Okay, Right, okay. But I just want to know, was there anything that just really stood out to you that you covered that was just like, you know, I can't believe I'm actually covering this situation.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

That's. That might be the topic for yet another interview.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

I, you know, I. I covered El Salvador, Lebanon, the Afghan war, Israel, Palestine. I spent gobs of time covering the Iran, Iraq war. I was the last Washington Post correspondent in Iraq before the bombs started falling in 1991. And I can tell you, I'll list some of the highlights for you. El Salvador. The Salvadoran military invaded a little town called Arkatao to capture me along with a photographer and a BBC correspondent. They invaded, and I've got a recording of the bullets hitting the mud hut where we were. We were hiding. They captured us, took us back for interrogation and then took our notes, film, and recordings, went back and killed four people in the village who had talked to us. So that was El Salvador, Lebanon. I was kidnapped by Hezbollah back when nobody knew who Hezbollah was.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yeah, right, right, right, right.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And, and, and I escaped. It was very short little experience. Like I said. This is the stuff for maybe another interview.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yeah. No, I love it. Oh, my gosh. It's real stuff.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yeah. And, and so there was that. And then, let's see, Panama, I. I caught a fugitive from the United States who had bilked a bunch of people out of a bunch of money and wrote a story about it. The US Extradited him the very next day. And then he sued me for $1 billion.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Dr. Evil at his best right there. $1 billion. And then, oh, bad.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Afghanistan, just a few months after 9 11, I was hanging out with a guy who was posing as a special operator and guy named Jonathan Keith Edema, otherwise known as Jack. And a lot of your listeners who have experience in Afghanistan might very well have heard of him. And we, we got into a discussion about someone I knew in El Salvador that he knew. And, and I was talking about going out and interviewing the FMLN in El Salvador and then getting captured. And, and he said, he said something to the effect of, well, if I ever find out that you're out interviewing the Taliban or Al Qaeda, I'm going to kill you. And I interrupted him to make a clarification on something. And the next thing I knew, boom. He had pulled out a gun from his ankle holster and shot me. And the bullet went that way, far from my shoulder, in through a couch and into the wall behind me. I realized he was upset that I had inter interrupted him. So I sat forward and with a totally straight face, trying not to show that my heart was beating so hard it was going to pop out of my chest. And I said, I'm sorry I interrupted you. And there was another, a real special operator in the room who said that was the coolest thing you ever saw. So what I would say for your listeners, though is we probably all have something in common. There is. There are certain people who, when they experience high levels of pressure and danger, their alert system comes into play and they actually do the opposite of panic. They focus really well. And I feel like I've got that ability. I didn't panic in under any of these situations. Kept calm, stayed organized, stayed focused. And that's how I survived to be able to do this interview.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Today I see a new shirt. Stay calm, organized and focused. Yes. Okay, that's it. The Stay Calm shirt. Carry on. Organized and focused. Stay organized and focused. Let me write that down. Organized. That's a great. Organized and focused like I'm going to do right now for the rest of this show. Stay organized and focused. Okay, now, thank you for bringing me into that world of your past just for a little bit and giving us a glimpse of what you've been involved with. Now let's transition into Globemaster down. Okay. And if I could just kind of surmise or, you know, just give a small little summarize. Yes, it's, you know, aircraft carrying people with, you know, an atomic bomb of sorts on it that went down and it's in, you know, the World War II era, right? Almost.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yeah. Please, please.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

So what happened was this is post World War II. The Cold War is beginning and the United States recognizes that Russia has not demobilized.

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[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

War II all the other belligerents in World War II had either been defeated or were rapidly drawing down their forces, bringing their troops home. People just wanted to enjoy normal life and, you know, husbands and brothers and fathers wanted to get back to their families. So the United States was pulling troops out of Europe. Britain was pulling its troops back home, and they were doing troop assessments of Soviet forces and realized they still had more than a million troops on the front lines between Western and Eastern Europe. They were not demobilized in any way. And so the US Commanders began doing assessments of, well, what happens next if the Communists decide that they're going to take over Europe. So they began doing these very serious assessments of it. And the more they assessed it, the more convinced they were that, in fact, Stalin had every intention of moving into Europe and possibly going as far as taking over Britain. And so they began holding a series of meetings to discuss how to respond to this, how to prepare for this. And so they knew that they needed to get U.S. atomic forces into Britain. They just didn't know how to do it because nobody, none of the leaders in Europe was, as the world saw the images from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they knew that no European nation would openly, publicly say, yes, United States, bring in your atomic weapons. That's exactly what we need. It just wasn't going to happen. It was politically unpalatable. So they began looking at other ways of deploying. And they realized that the easiest method, which was just to load atomic bombs into B29s in the United States and flying them over to attack the Soviets, was not viable. Because if the Soviets actually invaded en masse with a million troops, they were going to have already swept across the continent before the US Planes were in the air. And they also assessed that we can drop 5, 10 atomic bombs on them and that's still not going to stop them. They can survive that and they will continue to hold ground and they will be harder to uproot than it was to get Hitler out. So they knew that they, they needed to come up with Another plan. And they came up with a secret plan, a top secret plan to put US Atomic forces in Britain. And so the Strategic Air Command, which was commanded by General Curtis LeMay, began drawing up plans to do this. And so they, they formalized the plans and then named a commander named Paul T. Cullen to open up the first Strategic Air Command base in Britain. But it was still not officially announced that this would be an atomic air base. It was just going to be a Strategic Air Command base. The only problem was the Strategic Air Command didn't do anything else other than deliver atomic bombs. And so it was pretty apparent what the mission was. This plane, Globemaster, which is a C124, a triple decker plane, a cargo plane, it was the largest plane in existence at the time. And the tail number was 490244. They loaded it up with 53 crew members as well as atomic attack specialists and including the General who was going to.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

The brigadier. Yeah, the brigadier, right.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And they engaged in a number of flights domestically before they took off over the Atlantic. And their Cargo consisted of two KB29 fuel tanks, which would enable a B29 to refuel in the air, plus a cargo that weighed 10,395 pounds. A fat man bomb, or the Fat man bomb that they dropped on Nagasaki weighed 10,300 pounds. So there was only a 95 pound difference between that cargo and the cargo was the weight of the cargo was in addition to those KB29 tanks.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

So

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

this book examines what that cargo might have been and what the mission was. And so we can get into that.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

That's awesome. Now I'm here in Utah. That's where I live. And we have Wendover, which is the air base just out here, which is a huge pivotal role in all of this, I have to say, with dropping on the first bomb, the second bomb, you know, on Japan, the Doolittle raid. There's a road out here in the desert that we go and do war games on Dolittle Road. Okay. I'm just kind of bringing this into, you know, that like you said, this is that same time frame. And so, bro, the funny thing is I own a building just outside Hill Air Force Base. Okay? It's a 10,000 square foot warehouse. I have a. I do war games in there. And it's literally across the street from the base. And where my parking lot was was where they kept the B29s. And the city I'm in needed a road. And they said, okay, we'll back the fence, line up for the base and give the city a road so they can incorporate themselves as a city and give this road. And so I'm literally right there where that took place. The people that would fly on those planes would get a paycheck. They would come into my shop at the time and cash those paychecks because it was a grocery store. The shop I bought was the 1944 grocery store outside the base.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Wow.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

So I feel a whole lot of, like, Dolittle guys have come through that facility looking for something to eat. There's. I have the columns in my shop, like a store for aisles, you know, and it's just like they're so. And then. And then, of course, having the windover, you know, segment of it right out 90 miles, 90 minutes away from us. I've been there several times just.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Just for your listeners enjoyment and information. Wendover plays a key role in the early part of this book because that's where Colonel Paul Tibbets and the 509th, the 509th Composite Wing trained with dummy Batman bombs to perform the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. My wife's grandfather trained there and lived there, and my wife's father lived at Wendover in those early days.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Oh, wow.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes. And so that plays into the entire story and it unfolds in Globemaster down in the early part and it connects to everything that happened afterwards. But Doolittle plays a role in it. Tibbets plays a role in it. My wife's grandfather was on the Globemaster. So I didn't get to finish the actual. What happened? The globemaster made it 2/3 of the way across the Atlantic, and then without any radio communication or any indication of any problem, took a sharp right turn, went 300 miles due south way off course and ditched in the middle of the Atlantic. The all 53 on board disappeared, the cargo disappeared, and the plane. The only contents of the plane were a few splintered wooden pieces from the cargo deck and a briefcase from one of the passengers. It contained some magazine and some other stuff in it. And that's all they found of the entire mission. And it wasn't until 2016 when the United States publicly aired some current concerns that had existed for a long time was that, A, this was an act of sabotage, and B, they believed the Soviets might have had a role in it because they believed that the Soviets had ships and submarines in the very area where the plane went down. So there.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Let me ask you this, Todd. The 300 miles off course, where would that kind of put them with Their lost. This lost broken arrow. Really?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes. Yeah. If. If. Yes, it would have put them about 650 miles southwest of the coast of Ireland.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Wow. Wow. And I know that researching our conversation just a little bit prior to us, I found out there's a few broken arrows that the government will acknowledge. Like in Fayetteville, North Carolina, there's some type of a broken arrow, and then there's another one that's lost, and there's one in, like, Georgia.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes, yes. And then there's one off the coast of Spain. And this is a little known fact, but the United States has listed broken arrows that were recovered. What they will not tell you is the number and location of the broken arrows that were never recovered. And writing this book was particularly difficult because there are thousands of pages of top secret documents that have not been declassified, and I could not access them. And I set off alarm bells when I asked for them because I was told by an archivist at the National Archives, if. If an atomic weapon has been lost and has not been recovered, the documents related to that cannot be released. And that was because I posed a question to her and I said, I'm not hanging up until I get an answer to this. After 75 years, you. There's something still so secret that you can't release it? And she said, correct. And then she explained it.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

That's just mind blows. I mean, I get top secret. I get secret, secret, super secret. Okay. Squirrel secret, OSS secret, you know, Winston Churchill secret. I get all the secrets. Right? I get it, I get it. But, bro, like, plutonium just out there, you know? You know? Yeah, I've seen movies in the 80s about plutonium. Okay, come on now, bro. That's plutonium out there. And I guess it's good to keep that a secret from our adversaries so that they can't, you know, where are we trying to recover it from or anything like that so they can get it. Because everybody wants a little plutonium. We all seem. Back to the future. Come on now. Yes, Plutonium. Doc. What? So, so, okay, so for my listener, a broken arrow. I kind of just threw that out there. It's where we've lost a nuclear or atomic bomb. Right? That's specifically like a broken arrow. Is. Is that. It's a broken arrow. It's somewhere. It's got to be recovered. It's been stolen. It's been, whatever the case. Lost, crashed in sea. Am I hitting that right?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes. Now, the. In this case, I tried to put the pieces of the puzzle together and There are some missing pieces of the puzzle because they're in those classified documents that they will not release. But I've established the weight of the cargo. I've established the nature of the mission. I've established what was going on in terms of training operations involving fat man dummy bombs over Europe at the exact moment this plane was in the air. And so the question is, would the United States regard a fat man that didn't contain a nuclear core as an atomic weapon? And the answer is yes, they did. In fact, there were a number of cases before and after this where the US Law, fat man bombs without the nuclear core. And they listed that as a broken arrow incident, a lost atomic bomb. So by the US Government's own definition, this was. This could have been a lost bomb. But I don't call it a broken arrow in the book just because those missing pieces in it. I'm a journalist, and I can't say something is true and I don't have confirmation of it.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

I love that, and I love you for being that kind of a journalist. Okay. I aspire to you and the Christina Amanpours and all of that out there. That's. I appreciate the honesty and integrity that you bring to your journalism. And we just need to know that that exists. And I just want you to know I'm also of that same. I want to be of that same cloth as you. Now, it seems to me that this mission, this Globemaster down situation that they were trying to get over to England and be prepared, was maybe compromised from the get go. It was like. It just doesn't seem like, what do you think of that?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Well, so why was it compromised from the get go? There were a number of possibilities as well as one absolute certainty. And I'll do the possibilities first, because the absolute certainty is bizarre. So the possibilities are that the entire Manhattan Project had already been infiltrated by Soviet spies. Klaus Fuchs, just one of several who were feeding information directly to Joseph Stalin. And so when Harry Truman pulled Stalin aside to tell him the United States was about to launch a big attack on Japan to end the war, and he told Stalin it was an atomic bomb, Stalin didn't react. This is according to Truman's own memoirs. Stalin didn't react. He just went, oh, that's nice. And then he just moved on. Because Stalin already knew. And so U.S. nuclear, the most secret aspect of the entire war had already been compromised. And Stalin seemed to make it his mission in life to show the United States, no matter what you do, I can infiltrate you and get your secrets. So don't try it. And so there was, as I unfold in the book, there was good reason to believe that this mission and the conversations that Curtis LeMay was having at the time with his commanders about Europe had already been compromised. In fact, Curtis lemay in his memoirs raised the possibility that they had already been infiltrated and he was, he was cracking down. But those were early in the days. I mean when, when he established his Strategic Air Command, his base as well as Wendover didn't even have fences around

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[Podcast Announcer]

Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation's Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. The National park foundation and Garnier are proud to support these individuals as they explore future careers, gain practical field skills, develop confidence as leaders, and help address priority projects across our national parks. Together, Garnier and the National park foundation are committed to a shared vision of preserving and protecting Our most treasured places for future generations. Want to lend a hand? Explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation and learn how you can help support our national parks@garnier USA.com NPF you're

[Bombas Sponsor]

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[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Right?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

So, you know, so. So they didn't think they needed to.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Out on the salt flats, they're like, we're in the middle of the salt flats. We're in the middle of nowhere. No one's going to come here. Yeah, this is desolate, it's arid, there's no fresh water. It's all salt water. If you dig down and it's like, okay, we don't need a fence, we're our own fence.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

So they put in fences, you know, around the time that the Globemaster took off. So they were already worried about security. And when the Globemaster took off, there were a number of documents that I was able to get ahold of where the pilots and crew of all these aircraft were being warned ahead of time. You know, there are enemy forces out there and they could attempt at any time to sabotage, to shoot you down, to divert you, to capture you. And these are the procedures that you must undertake if this happens. So they were already aware that the enemy, the Soviets, were highly capable of intervening in this as well as other operations that were going on at the time. They had demonstrated it by shooting down Privateer spy planes that were supposedly collecting weather data off the coast of Scandinavia. And they shot them down and captured their crew. And so this was, for all. They call it a cold war. It was getting to the point of being a hot war. And on top of this, you have Korea. And so LeMay and the other commanders were absolutely convinced that Korea was designed by the Soviets as a diversionary tactic. The idea was to suck US forces into Asia so that he then had an open door to go into Europe. And so that was part of the urgency LeMay felt to get the atomic weaponry and attack forces into Europe ahead of Time. So then we get to the real security compromise here, which was that the commander that I mentioned.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

A woman. It's got to be a woman. Thank you, Red Sparrow. Dude, I was just going to think, like, you know, oh, we'll catch you, trap you. Oh, I know how you can catch and trap. Trap a guy.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

So. Brigadier General Paul T. Cullen. Right after. Right after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the United States launched Operation Crossroads to test nuclear weapons over the Marshall Islands, Bikini Atoll. And during that operation, which my wife's grandfather was a part of, he was operations commander for that operations officer. Cullen was there, and he met a Red Cross girl who was on the scene at the time named Reva Joy Hurwitz. And they fell in love. They had an affair, and everybody knew about it. And the affair continued after Operation Crossroads. And what Cullen apparently didn't tell anybody at the time is that he was already married and had been married for 16 years, and his wife was back in Washington waiting for him. And Cullen snuck away with Reva Hurwitz to Mexico. And I got a copy of their marriage certificate. Mexico. And they got married, which meant that Cullen. Yeah,

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

yeah. Excuse me. Sorry. It's in my head. You got me. He's a bigamist. Yeah. Sorry. I live in Utah. There's also polygamous, so.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

So absolutely, under military law. Military law at the time, as well as military law today, as well as civilian law, that was a prosecutable criminal offense. And.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Right.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And he. He should have rightfully been drummed out of the military, but they didn't do any background checks on him. And so they didn't know, even though there were people in his circle of commanders who knew that something strange was going on with him, they didn't do the necessary background check and that, you know, anybody who's been in the military knows, you know, the enemy when. When they're looking to gain intelligence, they look for vulnerabilities. And this was a blatant vulnerability. A, because, you know, they could blackmail him. B, all they had to do was. Was find out, you know, the bridge club these women were hanging out at or, you know, where they were shopping.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Exactly.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes. And just strike up a conversation and, hey, you know, anything going on? And they both knew about the plan to deploy these atomic forces over to Britain. In fact, they had been told, pack your stuff, we're moving to Britain. And so it was a major security breach. And it went undetected for years afterwards. Well, no, I should not say that went undetected until the plane went down. And then both Wives sought survivor benefits. And that's how it was exposed that he was married into women at the same time.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Bro, Mickey and Maude, dude, he's just like, what do I do? Well, yeah, he got red sparrowed. I don't know if that's a real term, but there's a movie about it where the, you know, they train the women in Russia to come over to get what they need from the guys. We might be seeing it today in our current society, you know, you just never know. You just never know. So. Yeah, because the power of a woman is awesome.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

And the guy really wants to have some of that power of that woman. And, you know, especially when you've gone for some desolate place and now all of a sudden you meet somebody and you can't send a text to your wife in D.C. back then, there's no, hey, babe, how you doing? You know, how can we talk? No, it's like, let me write you a letter. My dearest Cynthia, today the day is the day. You know, that's how you're writing the letter and it gets there two weeks later. So it's like, you know, nobody's really fact checking them like we can today. You know, it's like immediate fact check. Facebook, Instagram, all these different social medias. Here you are here, here you are here. Ring cameras caught you walking across the front lawn, you know.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yeah. Back then there was nothing like that.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

No, no. Wow. Wow. So we might have the reason why, but we're not sure. But in your book, you get into all of this and it really dives into, you know, how this mission seems compromised just from the get go. In my opinion, you know, from perspective here, it's like, well, and where did. I mean, they found a briefcase, okay. And there were some things in it.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

But they never found the plane.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

No. Never found the plane, nor the contents, nor. And there were survivors. They were spotted by multiple rescue planes in the hours following the ditching. Which a, indicates if the plane ditches, then it hadn't been disabled in the air. Because to be able to ditch a C124, like I said, a triple decker plane on open water took considerable talent. But to be able to survive, that means it had to have been a relatively smooth landing for them to be able to then get the doors open and escape as if they were landing.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Right. Like they came into the approach as if, okay, we're gonna have to land on the water exactly as best we can and try to set it and

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

get the hell out of there. As fast as you can.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yes.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

And so there were survivors. They were spotted from the air. The survivors disappeared.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Now,

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

the existing orders at the time were if you're on a secret mission and you have in your possession sensitive material that the enemy might try to capture, you are obligated to blow it up. And the very orders at the time told them you must blow it up by whatever means necessary to destroy it. And so there's a possibility that they sank their own plane to keep it away. If they knew that the Soviets were in the area, then they destroyed it. It's also possible the plane just totally broke up on landing and they just narrowly escaped and it disappeared under the water.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

But if, but if you think about modern today, landing on a water. Like when Sully, the pilot that landed the plane in the Hudson river, okay, he was able to land that plane without it breaking up. And everybody was on the wings, like, kind of waiting for salvation to come and rescue them, you know, so it seems like if you have a talented pilot that and a navigator or whatnot, and you can land that plane into the water. Now, mind you, it might be sea, it's the seas. So there's high seas, you know, there's like, you know, who knows what the waves are doing when they hit? But, I mean, it is possible to land the plane, to get out, like you said, open the doors and get out. But did anybody ever get recovered? Can you tell me about that, or do we need to read the book?

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Nothing was reheated, Nothing was recovered. But I do recommend reading the book.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yes. No, no, I agree, I agree, I agree. Don't tell me more. Tell me all of it.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

No, nothing was recovered. And what's interesting is, you know, on the flight manifest, this hundred, this 10,000, 395 pounds of cargo consisted of engine parts and, you know, assorted items, plus some medical equipment that included 8,000 surgical sponges. 8,000 surgical sponges, which I write in the book. It's like 8,000 rubber duckies. They should have floated. They should have floated straight to the surface because they're highly buoyant. And yet not one was found.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Not one of those sponges that would be like just sitting there like you found a briefcase. I mean, there's a briefcase. There was some wood that was floating.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Okay, so what, what, what the book makes very clear based on actual documents is that they were fledging flight manifests left and right during this time because what they were actually doing was flying nuclear components, atomic attack specialists, over to Europe. And they, they did not want a record of what was actually being flown over there. And so they were making up cargo manifests and putting them into the record. So in all likelihood, this cargo manifest was bogus.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yes. It was just a facade.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yeah. And so I, I get into this whole question of the. The KB29s because some of the wooden wreckage that was recovered was of 29 fuel tanks that were aboard. And, and that's key to this whole thing because the KB29, if you're trying to hide a fat man bomb, the KB29 was designed to fit into the expanded cargo hold of a B29. That, that at the time was called a silver plate B29. It. The, the, the cargo hold itself was top secret because that was a modified B29 that was made specifically to load a fat man bomb. And so they had to make the bomb bay door much bigger than normal. And so the KB29 was meant to fit through that exact same bomb bay, except it was slightly larger than fat man. Meaning you could fit a fat man inside a KB29 if your whole goal was to fly it over to Britain and unload it from this cargo plane without all the British eyes on you, seeing what you're unloading.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

It would just look like a fuel tank.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Exactly, exactly. And so there was good reason to believe they were using this to disguise the actual cargo because they knew there were. There were enemy eyes all over the place in Britain. That, that was documented. And so, so they knew they had.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Tell me the year that this is transpiring. The year again.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

This is 1951. 1951 in fact, last week. Last week, March 23rd, actually this week. March.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Oh yeah, this. Yeah, yeah, we're March. Yeah.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Was.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosures

[NFL Schedule Announcer]

the wait is almost over. Get ready for the NFL season with the highly anticipated 2026 NFL schedule release. Every rivalry, every rematch and every rookie debut with matchups locked and kickoffs confirmed. Be there for every can't miss moment. The full NFL Schedule release coming in May. Get all the [e-mail] schedulerelease.

[Podcast Announcer]

Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation's Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. The National park foundation and Garnier are proud to support these individuals as they explore future careers, gain practical field skills, develop confidence as leaders, and help address priority projects across our national parks. Together, Garnier and the National park foundation are committed to a shared vision of preserving and protecting our most treasured places for future generations. Want to lend a hand? Explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation and learn how you can help support our national [e-mail] NPF you're a

[Bombas Sponsor]

pro at running your life. At committing to your workout. At showing up every day. At bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our sport assortment has sped specialized socks for whatever sport you're committed to running, hiking, golf, Pilates and so much more. Made with sweat, wicking yarns, blister fighting details and targeted arch support. Bombas Sport is pro level socks from the Pros of Socks. For another pro, you go to bombas.com audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombus.com and use code audio was

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

the exact 75th anniversary of the plane going down.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

75th anniversary. Well, okay, good timing. Okay. Because you have this book, okay, Globemaster down, all right. And I mean I want everyone to go check it out. And again, let me just kind of like pitch your book a little bit. If you go and buy the book Globemaster down online at any of these retailers, leave a comment for the author down below. You know, like leave a comment where you bought the book. It really goes a long way. And also rate the book on the place and the platform that you purchase It. Whether you buy Todd's book or you go and buy another book, it's always nice to leave the authors a review. And I just want to encourage you, my listener, to do that, right? Even if it's just one of you out there that goes and buys his book, leave him a review for it, okay? Because it matters a lot. And I'm sure supporting local is always going to be what I say. First, go to your local mom and pop bookshops that have been around and stood the test of time to continue to have books on the shelf. So we can go in and just touch them and hold them and open them and read them, and then that goes and helps them keep themselves open. So buy local first. Otherwise, just buy it wherever you can download it. And I want you to read this book. Globemaster down the Soviets, man. I mean, really, dude, there's, like, so much is going on. Doolittle, the Windover. I just was. I just wanted to bring up Wendover to you because I'm here. I go to it all the time. I see Wendover, all. We go out. So you got a couple casinos out there now. And I tell my wife, you know, and friends when I go out there, you know, this is only here because the military, right? Like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, that water tower up on the peak over there, that's probably just installed by the military. Everything here, this whole town, this whole community here, is because of that Runway. And when you're traveling on i80, which is the freeway that goes between California and New York, you're on I80 going west or east, you can look over to the south and you can see the Runway out in the salt flats. You can see the whole thing. I've been there for air shows. I've seen Harrier jets take off. You know, they film movies out there. Con Air was filmed out there with Nicolas Cage. They did. Oh, this last one, Fallout, the TV series Fallout, they use the Windover Airfield. But today they're actually. What's the word? When you take something and you refurbish it? It's like the bomb loading doors or something like that. They're like this pit right here that we're standing in is being refurbished. Refurbished. It's like the most important little pit.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

And so it's a piece of history

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

is what it is. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Yes. And so our local news here, Fox 13 has gone out and done a story on that just yesterday. And that's probably because it's the 75th anniversary. I mean, no, they're just talking about Windover, I think, and the airfield and its significance in the military's might. Because it was a secret air base. Yeah, it wasn't supposed to be known about. It was supposed to be a secret air base. I mean, they were running the Doolittle raid from Hill Air Force Base to Wendover and back and forth. And then they'd come into my shop and buy some bread and some candy and go back to bed, you know, and so that's the. That's the invisible strings. My wife always talks about invisible strings out there, you know, and how this stuff all pulls together. And that's so wild, dude. And then your wife's grandfather. I mean, there's just so many invisible strings right here. And you're awesome. That's another invisible string. Holy cannoli, dude. Holy cow. Well, that's kind of the book glowmaster down. That's all I gotta say.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

That's kind of how I got into the book is my father in law from age 10, you know, didn't have a father. And this flight took place over the Easter weekend. And apparently his father, just before he got on the plane, popped an Easter card to the family in the mail and then got on the plane and took off. So they get news that the plane has disappeared, and they get news there were no survivors. And then this letter arrives, this Easter card arrives saying, jim, have a happy Easter, I love you, etc. He went through his life believing his father was still alive because, well, I've got this letter, you know, he must be still be alive. And so, you know, he spent decades kind of obsessed with this, but never able to fully explain what happened. They know that the Air Force lied to them about how the plane disappeared and what happened. And so several years ago, a group of other surviving family members began collecting whatever documents they could and exchanging them because the Internet enabled them to do that. And he collected all this stuff and then he started showing it to me, and he didn't know what to do with it. And so I gathered it, and then I did my own research, took a trip to Washington and spent three days at the National Archives, or Library of Congress, I should say. And that's how this book came about.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

You're just trying to give some closure to the situation and find out the actual truth to give them. And that's very cool of you to do so and use your skill set that you have and your thoughts to try to bring some closure. And you were able to put it into a book. Now. So now you have Globemaster down, right? I just can't help but say it, because now the C5 is an aircraft in the Air Force which is called the Globemaster, Right? Or Is that the C17? No, the C17 is the Globemaster. The C5 is a galaxy. So they gave the C17, the Globemaster nickname. Yeah, that's the. I'm just. I'm putting it together, right, Because. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because I just had a C17 Globemaster

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

pilot on yesterday, and they're just massive, massive planes. I mean, the Globemaster is huge. Doesn't fly anymore, but, yeah, just absolutely huge. And the wings. The wings were hollowed out so that crew members in flight could crawl through these tubes in the wings to access the engines, and the pilot would shut down engine number three, and then the crew member would go in and change the spark plugs on the engine and then get out of there and then crank up the engine again and. And they. They became adept at doing this kind of stuff, engine maintenance in the air.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

That guy, whoever that guy was, that's not me. I'm six, five. I don't know if I'm crawling into the wing. Maybe if it was big. No, that. The guy that's crawling into that wing, you know, it's like someone, five. Five. Someone five, four, two, five, two. Get in there and go bend your wrist and change the sprocket. The spark plugs, man. Holy cow. Wow. Holy cow. Well, first, I want to say rest in peace to the souls that were lost on that aircraft. Okay. As much as I'm smiling and talking about this in history, it's a real thing that affects, obviously, family. And, you know, I don't want to, like. I want to set a tone of, like, you know, respect for them. Okay. And just put that out there for everybody that lost their lives. That's a sad thing. You know, you've obviously been in a war conflict area, and war is hell, and you've seen that you've been chased yourself by people who just wanted the truth to be stopped. You know, chased, kidnapped, the whole nine yards. So, you know, props to you for your diligence in continuing on with just giving facts and straight truth about your journalistic experiences. So I just want to say thank you for doing that, and I just want to kind of say to your family, you know, sorry for your loss, and. And, you know, I'm glad you guys got that Easter card, and that's a very sweet thing to have had. Come home. And that's kind of how I feel about it. So aside from all the laughing and joking and like, oh, the espionage and everything and all of the suspense, these were people's lives that are gone. That, you know, you are one of the 53's relatives trying to figure it out. There's other relatives who just were just told and they just had to take it on the chin like, oh, it's a training accident, quote unquote. You know, it's like, that was not a training accident. My dad was a Green Beret. We talking about training accident. I know there's more to this or my dad was a pilot or whatever the case is. You know, it's like, yeah, wow. And thank you for coming on to Soft Rep and sharing that with us here on my podcast. I'm really honored to have you on the show.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

Happy to do it.

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

Invisible strings of a Pulitzer Prize, maybe. You know what I mean? So listen, I just want to say thank you. I've had you for an hour. I'm sure my listeners like, no, there's more. Rad. And there is. There's so much more. But it's in the book Globemaster down. And you can go find that anywhere, hopefully at the airport, hopefully anywhere that it's going to be at. Get it, buy it, leave a comment on the review for it and, you know, just share the book with a friend even, or I'm just putting it out there for you. I think that you should just have a really cool. Everybody should just go buy your book. That's what I want to say. If I can make that happen. There's my magic wand. Actually, it's a pencil. It's the David Letterman theory. You're welcome. See, if you have a pencil, it's like, I'm taking notes, you see, and honestly, I am taking notes. 490244, you see? Yeah, I got that. That's the tail number of that plane. Okay. Organize and focus. Organize and focus. Plane number. You see? I do. I want you to know and you matter and thank you for everything and to your family and everybody that supports you. Just don't get lost in the woods. Yeah, doing my best not to. Now I will just wind this down like I just have and say thank you again to Todd Robin Roberson. His book is Globemaster Down. Go check that out. Hopefully it becomes some type of a TV show or a Netflix series or something that we can actually like, watch and also see it that way in that adaptation. Okay? So if there's anybody knocking on your door, I hope so. If not, and you're listening to this. Why don't you knock on his door? Okay, so with that said, I want to say thanks to Ann, I think, who arranged us to meet. This is our first time ever having a conversation. And. And I want to show people that you can have a polite conversation with a stranger in today's society and not be at each other's throats about ideals. You can seriously talk it out and just have a nice conversation. And I hope that you listen to this and realize that you can have a nice conversation with someone, a stranger. Just meet them and say hi. Say hello. If someone's looking at you, say hi. Watch what they say back. Maybe they'll say hi, too. Okay. Don't be like, oh, you're looking at me.

[Todd Roberson (Guest, Author and Journalist)]

What?

[Podcast Host (Soft Rep)]

What? Anyways, that's just my own soapbox to talk about. Spread some kindness out there. It's infectious and it just goes a long way. And on behalf of Todd Roberson, who joined us today on his busy schedule on behalf of his book, Globemaster Down. Okay, go check that out. And on behalf of Soft Rep and Brandon Webb, my guy in the background, and Callum, my producer, and Logan and everybody that's always Rubik's cubing us to have this great platform, thank you so much for your hard work. And with that, I just want to say thank you again to Todd for being on the show and to everybody that helped put you here. And this is rad saying. Peace. You've been listening to Surf Rep Radio.

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