The Truth About Veteran Suicide No One Talks About: Magnus Johnson of Mission 22

Summary

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SOFREP Radio: The Truth About Veteran Suicide No One Talks About

Guest: Magnus Johnson, Founder of Mission 22
Host: Rad
Date: April 2, 2026

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Overview

This episode of SOFREP Radio centers on a raw, deeply personal conversation between host Rad and Magnus Johnson—former Green Beret and founder of Mission 22—about the realities behind veteran suicide and the healing journey after service. They unpack the cultural, psychological, and personal complexities that veterans face when returning to civilian life and dig into why traditional awareness campaigns aren’t enough. Magnus shares his path from combat deployments to art-driven advocacy, community-building, and ultimately authorship, pushing beyond merely highlighting the problem toward actionable solutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Magnus Johnson’s Service & Transition

[03:47–14:07]

• Motivation for Service: Magnus enlisted after 9/11, feeling compelled by the attacks:

  “I watched on the news the towers come down. I had no intention of joining the military until that moment…” — Magnus [04:39]

• Military Career Path: Started as a combat engineer, attached to infantry units, eventually became a Green Beret after difficult selection and Q course phases.
• Reflections on Team Culture: The Green Beret culture values adaptability, humility, and the ability to shift seamlessly between peer camaraderie and rank-based professionalism:

  “That’s something that civilians struggle with—knowing what hat to wear when. On the teams, you can have a friendly rapport, but then snap into professionalism when the mission starts.” — Magnus [11:06]

• Challenges Abroad: Magnus describes the tension and unpredictability of working with Afghan forces, noting the necessity of “trust but verify”:

  “It’s complicated… moments did arise, sometimes out of nowhere, unexpectedly.” — Magnus [15:52]

2. The Difficult Transition Home

[19:29–22:23]

• PTSD and Purpose: Magnus opens up about his own “baggage,” confusion around the mission’s shifting political goals, and his struggle to find a sense of closure after his service ended.

  “I already brought with me some…baggage to the military. Ramadi was a kick in the ass, I picked up some, you know, PTSD, shell shock…” — Magnus [20:13]

• Recognition of a Deeper Issue: Noticing suicide among peers became a turning point, particularly the suicide of a respected mentor:

  “He was always asking me, ‘Hey, how are you doing?’ And then that was the guy that hung himself. And that hit me, man…” — Magnus [22:47]

3. The Birth and Evolution of Mission 22

[22:23–29:12]

• Origins: Mission 22 began as a public art project—a massive leaf sculpture in Nashville, Indiana—intended only to raise awareness and honor a friend:

  “I just wanted to do something to acknowledge my friend, to not just, you know, be a witness…” — Magnus [25:11]

• Building a Team: The need for insurance and funding led to the formation of a nonprofit. The process of creating art and collaborating with local artists and veterans was itself healing:

  “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with the team.” — Magnus [33:04]

4. Creativity & Purpose in Recovery

[29:12–35:41]

• Therapeutic Creation: Art and team-based projects (from sculpture to building a ‘war machine’ for airsoft games) offer focus, problem-solving, and teamwork—direct opposites of isolation and despair:

  “What’s the opposite of death? …Creation.” — Magnus [30:39]

• Importance of Community: Shared passions and hands-on activities foster belonging. The episode emphasizes “thrills before pills”—pursuing natural, communal forms of therapy over medication when possible.

5. Suicide Awareness vs. Solution

[37:24–41:09]

• Navigating the Conversation: Magnus wrestles with the balance between raising awareness and focusing on positive action:

  “Over the last 13 years, I want to acknowledge the suicide but focus on the solution. A lot of people don’t like that. They want to keep hearing about the problem…” — Magnus [38:09]

• Moments of Choice:

  “There’s a difference between wanting to kill yourself and not wanting to live... some people that don’t want to live, and some people that in an instant want to take their life.” — Magnus [39:02]

• Personal Responsibility:

  “My solution... is to build in a community and environment to... create an environment where that solution [suicide] is less likely.” — Magnus [40:24]

6. Pebbles on the Positive Side

[42:54–44:41]

• Daily Practice: Magnus describes life as a scale, where he chooses to “keep dropping little pebbles on the positive side until that son of a bitch tips.”

  “Whether that’s saying something nice, praying for somebody, being creative…no matter how small, over time, and stack that habit until that scale tips.” — Magnus [43:11]

• Consistency Over Quick Fixes: Improvement comes gradually, not from a single event or intervention.

7. Art, Authorship, and the Mission of Men

[45:30–53:58]

• Book: The Men We Make: Magnus describes his debut novel, which explores nature vs. nurture and the effects of effort—however small—in shaping men’s outcomes.

  “I tell the story twice—one where the family is abusive and selfish; then I reimagine it with just a smidgen of love and effort... The difference is whether or not they try.” — Magnus [49:03]

• On Modern Masculinity: Magnus points to the crisis of male loneliness and the social, biological, and cultural barriers men now face:

  “Men’s testosterone today… a 20-year-old has less than a 60-year-old from the 60s… Deaths of despair… these are very big and real problems.” — Magnus [52:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You want to go fast, go alone. You want to go far, go with a team.” — Magnus [33:04]
• “If you grind your welds, you’re not a welder—you’re a grinder.” — Magnus [28:18]
• “My solution…is to build in a community and environment…drop as many rocks in the water, to elevate it where there’s good positive attitude, positive people, positive programs, options.” — Magnus [40:24]
• “Consistency. It wasn’t like, oh, I went to the therapist, they gave me a pill, and I’m all better now… It took time.” — Magnus [43:49]
• “There’s a difference between wanting to kill yourself and not wanting to live.” — Magnus [39:02]
• “What’s the opposite of death? …Creation.” — Magnus [30:39]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Guest Intro & Bio: [02:11–03:47]
• Magnus’s Path to Service: [04:00–08:47]
• Transition to Green Beret: [07:28–10:36]
• Military Culture, Camaraderie: [10:36–13:32]
• Deployments & Reflections: [13:32–19:29]
• Leaving the Military & Early Struggles: [19:29–22:23]
• Mission 22 Genesis: [22:23–29:12]
• Art as Therapy, Team Effort: [29:12–35:41]
• Suicide in the Veteran Community: [37:24–41:09]
• Shifting the Conversation to Solutions: [41:09–44:09]
• The Metaphor of Pebbles/Consistent Effort: [42:54–44:41]
• Book Discussion (“The Men We Make”): [45:30–53:58]
• Masculinity, Loneliness, and Community: [51:05–53:58]
• Wrap-up & Book Club Talk: [55:20–58:55]
• Shoutout to Magnus’s Wife: [60:09–60:18]
• Closing Remarks: [60:46–end]

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Final Thoughts

Magnus Johnson and Rad deliver an authentic, hopeful, and at times humorous look at the realities of modern veteran life, the heartbreak and hope embedded in the effort to address suicide, and the transformative power of purpose, creativity, and community. The episode is an invitation to shift from awareness to action, from isolation to connectedness, and from surviving to creating meaning, one small ‘pebble’ at a time.

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Explore More:

• Mission 22 — Support, resources, and community for veterans and families
• The Men We Make by Magnus Johnson — Available wherever books are sold. Leave a review!
• SOFREP Book Club — More recommended reads by and for the community

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Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[B]

Brute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

[A]

You're listening to softweb Radio.

[B]

Special operations, military news, and straight talk with the guys in the community. Hey, is this thing on? I'm pretty sure it's on. What's what? What, what's going on? Welcome back to Soft Rep Radio. I'm your host. Say it with me. Rad. That's right. If you have been listening for a long time, thank you so much for your return radio repeat listenership. And if you're new to the program, watch out, here we come. Get ready for something cool. So I've got a cool guest today, but before I introduce you to him, I want to talk about the book club. So we have the softrep.com book club. That is the gym for your mind. Okay. I just got back from the gym, working out my physical. What about the mental? Read a book. Grow your brain. It's a muscle. Get smart. Read a book. Softrep.com book. Maybe this gentleman that I'm speaking to will get his book in our book club. And you can check that out. But first, the merch. We have merch. You guys have been rocking it, guys and gals. We love you all. So you rocking the Soft Rep branded cool items software.com forward/merch. Callum, my producer will maybe put something here in between my fingers that says like store merch. Softrep Soft Rep merch. Go check it out. Tag us in it. And let's. Let's just share that all over the Internet because I love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. Now, without further ado, I bring you Magnus Johnson, founder of Mission22.org sits here with me. Welcome to the show, Magnus. First of all, let's give you a clap.

[A]

Hey, thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.

[B]

Now, now, Magnus, give me a moment to read a bio that I stumbled onto. I'm just going to tell. You can correct me on this bio. Ready? We're going to go to your LinkedIn. Here we go. Magnus Johnson's bio. Green Beret is how it starts. Magnus Johnson is a former Green Beret family man, writer and artist. He served three tours of duty, first as an army private combat engineer in Ramadi, Iraq, and then as a Special Forces Staff Sergeant, Green Beret in Afghanistan. After eight years in the service, he faced challenges transitioning back to civilian life, including Post Traumatic stress disorder and depression. Johnson has been awarded a Bronze Star medal for combat actions and a Congressional record in the Indiana House of Representatives for service to country and community. He is the president and co founder of Mission 22, an organization, an organization dedicated to increasing mental health for veterans and their families. You know what, bro? Welcome to the show.

[A]

Hey, thanks a lot. Yeah, that, that bio is just about accurate. There's probably a little, little word things there that some people will get me on, but my wife wrote that up and it's about accurate.

[B]

It's about.

[A]

It's about 99% true.

[B]

And you're still married to the same lady that wrote this?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, still married. Yep.

[B]

Good job. Love that. I love to hear that. And Mission 22. How many of us have not heard about Mission 22 in the Veteran community? You know, here at Soft Rep, we're constantly talking about awareness and, you know, self help for one's, you know, choices in life. And Mission 22 is out there just trying to help bring, you know, R and R is, I think what you guys call it, like resiliency and recovery. Let me think what I wrote down here.

[A]

Recovery, resiliency.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, exactly. Right. And so, okay, first of all, there's so much to crack open with that. Right? How old were you when you enlisted? Let me get that out of the way.

[A]

23, 24. It was a delayed entry program. So it was. I was a little bit older. Yeah, I was a little bit older, but 911 had happened and I had kind of sat on it, I think for about a year. I'm like, hey, if the war keeps going, I'll join up kind of. Because I didn't know if it was going to be like, pop up, go away or keep on going. And so about a year after that happened, I entered, but it was a delayed entry program.

[B]

And you joined. What was the enticing bait on the end of the fishing hook that just reeled you in? Were you a 11 Bravo, like a infantryman? Did you go in as a combat engineer? What was it exactly?

[A]

Yeah, man. So, well, what it was, was 9 11. I wanted to fight. When I witnessed, you know, I watched on the news the towers come down. I had no intention of joining the military until that moment in life. And then something inside of me kind of stirred awake once I witnessed that. And then the recruiter man, he. I wanted combat arms. I was looking at actually, well, I was looking at a few things. I was looking at cabscout, infantry tanker and then. What is it? Combat camera, the journalist, that was interesting to me. But then the recruiter man, he. He said, he said combat engineers. Just like infantry was C4. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's me. You know, Turned out it wasn't exactly true, like, that it all depends on who you're attached to. But I was attached to an infantry unit in Ramadi in 06, so it was kind of true for me in my first tour.

[B]

But did you attach to that unit what was like. What was it that they're like, hey, so like, a corpsman gets attached to just like a, you know, a Marine Corps team. Like, just random like, hey, you're a corpsman in a corpsman pool. You're going to go with this unit. Is that kind of how it is for your job as well, your MOS military occupation? Well, this. Trained and then you just go with this unit.

[A]

Well, for a combat engineer, you can be attacked. You know, you can be on base building up bases. You know, you can. You can be attached to tankers, helping dig fighting positions, putting up. Hesco is putting up Constantino wire, you know. But when I was attached to the infantry in Ramadi in 06, we were clearing routes, we were digging up caches, looking for IEDs, and then going with them on their patrols. So it was. It was pretty intense.

[B]

Is that where you shoot out that long cable from the tank and it goes out into the road and then,

[A]

like, Nick or whatever?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, man. I polished a few in the motor pool, but I never got to shoot one. But, yeah, it would have been cool to see that in real.

[B]

Real, Right. I've just seen the videos of it coming from Iraq. It's just like, boom, just fire, you know, all over the road. Just a big, huge explosion.

[A]

But no, you know, never got that chance.

[B]

Crazy. So you go combat engineer, and then the next step is.

[A]

So Ramadi was pretty tough, man. It was, you know, you got Fallujah, Mosul, Ramadi. The strategy, Ramadi was different than Fallujah. Instead of going door to door, it was like this containment thing. But the fighting was pretty strong. And then after that tour, we. We took some casualties. We had a. We lost a few guys. And, man, I kind of developed some, like, bitterness, resentment, frustration. And, well, like, in the regular army, you know, I felt like we were kind of waiting to be hit. Being predictable. It just felt like I was always on my back foot and something, you know, I got. I got ardent about becoming a Green Beret and going back to Iraq. I was like, if I'm going to go back, I want to go back trained, aggressive, and with people that all want to be there. And so I decided to go to selection after I got done with Ramadi.

[B]

And so you come back to the stateside, you go through selection and the qualifying course and all of that to get your Green Beret.

[A]

Well, I went back to Germany and then signed all up, went to Selection, found out I made it. Then I went to North Carolina, went through the Q course and became a Green Beret.

[B]

And became a Green Beret. Just like that. Just a blink of an eye. It's like, no, you don't. I mean, no, no, it wasn't, it was, it was like a, maybe an 18 month course for you to have to go through.

[A]

Well, as far as Green Beret ago, you know, I got French and engineers, so I'm not, you know, I didn't get Farsi and Delta. So my, my course is a little shorter. But, you know, still the challenge, it was a challenge for me anyway, especially France.

[B]

Oui, monsieur. Oui, oui, oui, oui. I actually, it's so great. I love it.

[A]

I actually fail. I was, I recycled French and I thought I was not going to make, I was not going to become a Green Beret because of language. And man, I did every. I did. I watched movies in French. I listened to Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones. They had. There's this woman that sings a French version and I just tried to do everything in my power, man, and I barely made it. So, you know, I did, I had struggles.

[B]

That's amazing. And I'm surprised the French Foreign Legion never popped up in your mind.

[A]

It did, man, actually.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, I mean, I wasn't going to do it, but there was a few moments when I was, I, I entertained that romantic notion. But luckily I never, I never did it.

[B]

Yeah, get to the door, knock on it. Bonjour. You're like, here's my passport.

[A]

Well, like, I've always wanted adventure, man. Like, I thought the French Foreign Legion sound, you know, obviously it's like romanticized from old movies and stuff, but it still sounded cool. And then pct, hiking the pct, getting a gold claim, things like that, always kind of attracted to me, you know.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you did. Look into it a little bit. I can hear that. Yeah. And so Green Beret, you know, you just have this Olympic Olympian mentality to, like, just persevere through, you know, a marathon, to just keep pushing with a ruck that weighs 80 plus pounds, you know, up and down a mountain for 72 hours in a stress test, you know, trying to find land navigations. You guys are constantly. Politicians that are Placed into, you know, war zones with a satellite phone, like, how's it going? You know, oh, you want your kid to stop coughing, I can help. But you need to give me like six of those guys over there to just dig this hole. And then you have your medic give him some NyQuil. You're like, Hey.

[A]

I mean, there's no doubt about it that on the teams there's brilliant men.

[B]

Brilliant, brilliant.

[A]

I don't classify myself as quite that level. I'm fortunate to be there. It's not fake humility. You know, I had some strengths. I was very adaptable. I was never the strongest, the fastest, the smartest, but I usually kept a pretty good attitude in the field. I kind of struggled on base, but in the field I kept a good attitude. Always willing. Sleep didn't. Sleep deprivation didn't bother me much. And I liked that grind, you know, I liked having odds against us and pushing, pushing. But definitely men surrounded by great men.

[B]

Great. Yeah, no, agreed. And growing up in that culture with my father being a Green Beret and you know, those guys always talk to each other with a first name basis. The only time I ever heard like Sergeant First Class Radle was like, I think he was in trouble by his major. But otherwise they were always like, hey, Jack, hey, hey, Beeson. You know, it was always like a first name basis in the, in the teams because when they go out they just, you know, the rank matters on the base and it matters in a chain of command, but those guys seem to just all be of the same cloth and understanding each other when they're on the teams.

[A]

Man, that's something, you know, I've been out for a few years now and running businesses, being a part of businesses, working with civilians. And that's something that civilians struggle with. Knowing when to, you know, what had to wear to when, like, hey, now is the time to be, you know, friends, peers. Now we're on mission, now we're on the X. Like, all right, now is rank. Now's not the time to question me. Now's the time to execute. And so, you know, I've missed that. I missed being able to have that first name basis, have a friendly rapport, but then be able to go into professionalism and then when it's over, bounce out to, you know, it's a difficult thing to do. And that's probably one of the few cultures I've seen it actually happen where

[B]

it's a heckle and jide situation or Jekyll and Hyde, excuse me, where you have one dude who's trained to go on point with whatever equipment is attached to him, and then another who can, you know, also coach the kid's soccer game when he's not doing that same thing?

[A]

Well, it's just this rotation of command and control of responsibility. But then you always are aware. Situational awareness, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Hey, it's.

[A]

We're on base. My captain's talking to Major so and so. So, like, yes, sir. No, sir.

[B]

Yes, sir. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and you got to know when, and you got to have that respect, and you got to have that maturity, and you've got to, you know, have the awareness.

[B]

And once you got your Green Beret, Special Forces tab, United States Special Forces, I'll call you what you are. What did you then go off to do that? You can tell me, like, what was your next deployment after that with the teams? Was it back to Iraq? Was it back to, you know, that. Was that your theater of operation was the Middle East?

[A]

Yeah, so I didn't go back to Iraq. I wanted to go back to Iraq. At least I thought I did.

[B]

You know, that's what you were saying. Yeah.

[A]

But, no, we ended up going to Afghanistan. And it was. It was really interesting. I got better at my mos, but it wasn't heavy combat on my second tour. It was a lot of training, a lot of ranges, a few missions, but nothing like the intensity of Ramadi no. 6. And so the tour was short, but I learned how to be a. I forget what it's called, but basically an assistant Charlie. There's, like, the main Charlie and the assistant Charlie. I learned how to be the assistant, learned how to do my job a little better. And then after that, I did another tour to Afghanistan, my third tour, and that one was where I was doing my job, and we were fighting, and it was unconventional, and it was politics. So my third and final tour was kind of the. For me, anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Culmination of, like, combat experience. What was it called? I forget the acronym they were running that time, but we're basically training police and army soldier. We were doing this, like, training with the police for Afghanistan with the ana,

[B]

the Afghan national army, and those guys.

[A]

I forget what. It had a name, man, but I forget it. But it. Basically, we were, like, training up the police in the Afghan army to work, work together. But that was about a year of tour, and I got to do a bit of everything that I had kind of imagined what it would be like to be a Green Beret. Did you?

[B]

You know, I. If I was in that position would want to trust everybody that I'm training, but I would want to, like, maybe trust them from behind them. Right. So, like, while they're on the line, you know? You know, any. Any close calls with that while you were there?

[A]

Yeah, there was a close call. I think a term that a lot of Green Berets use is trust but verify. That's kind of in our culture, you know, trust but verify, which is a good thing to live by.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

We did this big connection link up where we had some NATO troops, some Afghan troops, some Afghan army guys and us, and we were linking up to do this big operation. And there was an Afghan soldier in the back of a truck. I think it was a Hilux probably. And I can't remember what the rifle was, but it was a machine gun, a PKM or whatever it was. It was a machine gun. And he was having a hard time getting it loaded or getting it. Something was going on where he was having a hard time, like a malfunction or something. And my Bravo hopped up in the back of the truck to help him. And the Afghan guy took that as an insult, like, you know, hey, don't get in my lane, you know, and he. He lifted a hamp like a hammer tool or whatever, getting ready to come down. And, well, well, there was kind of a. A moment there where everything kind of got real tense and. And he was yelled at to stop. And there was like a moment where I wasn't sure if he was gone or not. Thankfully, he did, and the situation, you know, cooled off. But there was a lot of tension and a lot of mistrust and for good reason. You know, there's a lot of things that happened from. From those relationships, you know, where they got people on the inside and this, that and the other. So it's complicated. You know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of layers and complications to it and conflict and moments did arise, sometimes out of nowhere, unexpectedly. But.

[B]

And is that. Is that education? You know, that layer? Do you learn that through the Q course? Is that, like, something that has to be already in you to be able to, you know, separate yourself from, like. Okay, we have to, like you said, layers, right? There's layers of an SF guy. It's like, are they teaching you how to be this politician, or do you already have this understanding and demeanor when you go in, how to work with folks like that?

[A]

Well, you know, their recruitment process is pretty elaborate. You know, their psychological tests. I couldn't tell you who exactly they're Looking for? I can guess. I've heard rumors, you know, but I, I think they really know what they're recruiting for. And then once they get the right recruitment, then they, you know, they do the training, you do the education. But I think.

[B]

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[A]

They're probably pretty phenomenal at finding the profiles of people that they're looking for.

[B]

Yeah, they're good at what they do.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I couldn't tell you their methodology. I mean, I got some zoom awareness, but I don't know exactly.

[B]

It's like trying to learn the algorithm of Tick Tock. You're just not gonna ever know it. Yeah, he's got a post up and hope that your stuff gets seen. They're the same thing. They're like, we're just gonna let you know how you're gonna. If your next step is in this classroom or exiting out this door.

[A]

Well, I mean, I'll tell you, man, like, I grew up in a van. My dad was a musician. You know, I grew up poor. I grew up, I was supposed to be doing homeschool, but I didn't get to do a lot of it. And so I, the psychologist said, like, hey, you got a 10 cylinder engine running on 8. Meaning like in their psychological survey, they had identified that I had the capacity but I hadn't put the fuel in. And so they still recruited me because they thought I had the mental capacity to do, do it. But they also acknowledge that, you know, hey, he hasn't like gone through as much traditional academic training, so they were able to kind of tease out these differences.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, wow.

[B]

No, yeah, that's, that's that's smart. I like to hear that. Right. Because you don't hear too much of that, that conversation. It's usually like, oh, I was rocking a M60 on the back of a Humvee. But there's a lot of smartness. Like you said, there's brilliant people on these teams. All right. And whether you're being humble or not. You know, you're around that, so you're going to, you know, sponge off of those guys, you know, and their glasses, okay? They wear their glasses, you know, the guy, you know, talking about. And it's like, let me wear my glasses. Hold on. Be my glasses on real quick. You're like, but you're the best shot on the team. Let me just put my glasses on. I just love the SF culture in that community, you know, Very proud of how my father lived his life and raised us. And so I can only imagine, you know, he never brought it home. I never saw that work come home. And I'm kind of transitioning into this, this. This next conversation we're going to have about transitioning out of what you just did, learning all of these types of skill sets, seeing things, Seeing things you can't talk about, seeing things that maybe you can't talk about that you never saw, that you never saw because you weren't there, but you were there, but you were never there. All those things in your brain, and you have to live with it. Walk by your wife every day. Hey, what's up, babe? I can't tell you anything. My dad never wanted us. My dad took stuff to the grave. I'm sure of it. I'm sure of it. You know, like, with the oath that he swore.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, that's. That's just how you guys live, right? And so now that you're transitioning back from SF to stay side, you served like, eight years as a Green Beret?

[A]

No, no, no, no. I did four, I think, as regular army, and then Q course, and then time as a Green Beret. So it's like two or three years as a Green Beret, a year and a half or so as a Q course, and then four years in the regular army, like, in between time, you know, waiting or whatever. So what was the.

[B]

What was the click that said, I'm just. I went through all of this, you know, you've become basically like a doctor of Special Forces warfare, you know, as a Green Beret. So, like, what. What is it that transitions you to just not swear up again?

[A]

Yeah, man. Well, so, like I was saying, you know, I grew up pretty hard. I grew up pretty poor. And so I already. I already brought with me some, like, baggage to the military right before I even got there. And then, you know, Ramadi was a kick in the. Kick in the ass, and I picked up some, you know, ptsd, shell shock, whatever you want to call it from that. And then the, you know, in The Q course, two more tours, and so I'm already kind of the. The skin is thin. And then you add on that the rules of engagement are changing, the political climate's changing. It's kind of like difficult. Like, what are we doing? Are we winning? Is this, like, does this have an end? Like, so I started getting kind of confused on the vision, and it started kind of becoming complex to me of like, what's the goal? What's winning? What are we doing? And I got to that point, and I was right around the cusp of 30. I had given three tours. I felt like in my own heart that I had answered the call that was beckoning me with nine, 11, yes. And I felt like that was a good way to exit, you know, it was. I could exit honorably. I had done the tours, I had put in, the training, I had committed. I had honored my oath. And it kind of seemed like a natural point to move on in a good way. So I did.

[B]

Yeah, on your tour, on your terms. It was your terms. And that's. That's chill. And so now when did you realize that you alongside with all these other folks coming home from combat and war, you know, and. And the whole global war on terrorism, which was 20 plus years still ongoing. I mean, as we talk today, you know, we have Middle east erupting right over there with Iran and all this, you know, I mean, it's just non. So I guess, you know, it's consistent. It's like, you know, where's the break, you know, for our veterans to like, have a moment of no war? But I guess you're trained to go to war. I don't know. So when you got out, I guess my question to you is, what made you feel the need to create mission22.org

[A]

yeah, so I got out and like, I think it was like the end of 2011, beginning of 2012, right on the cusp, and some guys I knew started committing suicide, started hearing about suicide, you know, and then I had some mentors of mine that were, you know, been in the military a lot longer than me. I had struggled in the military. You know, there have been moments when I thought about was around you know, people. It was there.

[B]

What.

[A]

But I kind of. I decompressed and I started kind of like paying attention and looking at everything. And then a guy I really respected, man, he. He hung himself. Himself. I don't want to say his name because sure, there's still family, kind of. It's still raw for them. And dude, it dawned on me that that guy was asking me all because I was like, I said I was having some struggles with alcohol and getting in trouble and this, that and the other. And he would always ask me, he's like, hey, how are you? Hey, are you doing all right? And man, he asked me all the time and I never asked him like, hey, how are you doing? Right? I was self centered. I was struggling and I wasn't thinking about others. I was thinking about myself and how my life sucks. And this guy was always asking me. And then that was a guy that hung himself. And then that hit me, man. And then I started doing a little homework. Some of my mentors started telling me about the VA report at that time, which is 22 a day, I believe, in 2012.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I started doing some research, man. And I was like, resentful. I was like, okay, we got the global war on terror. There's no like declared victory. Suicide rates are, or pack or peeking up. And like, well, what's, what's your, what's a VA doing? What is America doing? What is the army doing? I'm blaming everyone. I'm looking at everything. I'm annoyed, I'm irritated, I'm frustrated, I'm entitled. And man, something came in. Like I looked in the mirror and I, I mean, I didn't speak to myself, but it felt like I did. It's like, well, what are you doing about it? And the answer, you know, I had, no, I had nothing. I'm not doing. I'm bitching about it. And man, like, something in me kind of hit me again. I'm like, okay, well, I could do something, you know, I could at least contribute to this. I could raise awareness. I could make this more of a situation that people know about. It's not like in secret. And so I decided to build this big art piece in the town I lived in, this big sculpture, it's a leaf sculpture because it's like an art colony town. But they get a massive ton of tourists, so it's like a choke point.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah, people come to come be tourists. It's in Nashville, Indiana. It's famous for fall leaves and millions of people come there every year. And you know, through a long story, I got, I finagled the way to do this big art installation in the middle of the town. And. You good?

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm good. No, I'm good. Art installation inside the town.

[A]

And so.

[B]

Well, hold on.

[A]

Can I finish?

[B]

Yeah, please.

[A]

So that's all I was going to do, man. I was going to like, hey, I'm going to build this art piece with veterans, give it to the town, raise awareness of this issue, and we'll be good. And like, I had no intention of building a charity, no intention of building a national campaign, no intention of any of it. I just wanted to do something to acknowledge my friend, to not just, you know, be a witness and. But in order to build that project, I had to get insurance, I had to get cash. People wouldn't give me cash without, you know, having a tax deduction. And so it just turned into an organization from that.

[B]

And so. And so the. The whole thing became like a 501C3. That way there was a tax deduction if anybody wanted to give you anything. And. And that's where Mission 22 was originated, was from the leaf that you created.

[A]

Yeah, man. It's. It's a super cool art piece, man. It really is. It's. It's. It's massive. It's beautiful. It's. It's. It's right in the center of town. And so from that, you know, because it was large scale, it wasn't like this little thing. It was like a.

[B]

No, can you tell me how big it is? Like, is it six feet tall?

[A]

Oh, no, it's like 30ft tall. the visitor center, we got a guy who is like a. Like a phenomenal automobile painter. And he. He painted it all up. It looks like wind swirling the le. It's. It's beautiful. I mean, it's a real deal art installation. And I mean, the town loves it, dude. I mean, it's. It's a.

[B]

Like, I see it, right? Do I see this big thing? Is this in front of a building?

[A]

It's in front of a brown building that's the visitor center in Nashville, Indiana. And it's.

[B]

Things do in Nashville, Indiana. Yeah, There it is. Holy cow. So is that welded?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're a welder too? Well,

[A]

I mean, I had to learn. I had to learn how to weld. I had to learn how to, you know, do local politics. I had to learn. I had to learn business. I had to learn all this stuff because the things I wanted to do, you know. But no, you don't want me to weld your bridge. You don't want me to weld your bridge. But I could weld smart, you know?

[B]

You know what's funny is my business partner, we do war games here in Utah, and we always go up against armored personnel carriers that drop guys off behind us. So we went in, he went into the garage with a blowtorch and a welder. And he created a tank out of an Isuzu rodeo so that we could have an armored personnel carrier. That is a literal. Yeah, I had to have it revenned by the highway patrol as a tank. So I have an Isuzu tank in Utah.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

What he says is, he's like, you know, rad. I'm not a welder, so what's your excuse?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And I was like, oh. Because I'm like, how'd you learn to weld? He's like, well, I'm not a welder. I. I just took a YouTube tutorial and kind of like, bro, the welders

[A]

will get you for stolen valor. If you go around saying you're a welder and you're not really a welder. Don't, dude. Yeah, So I could stick metal together.

[B]

Yeah, he said, I'm not a welder, so what's your excuse? Why didn't I make what we helped? I took photos of him working, so that matters.

[A]

Dude, have you seen that meme where there's a kid with, like. He's like this, like, redneck kid. He's got the welding helmet. My. And he says. The meme says. My dad says if you grind your welds, you're not a welder, you're a grinder. Have you seen this?

[B]

No, I haven't.

[A]

So.

[B]

But it makes sense. It makes sense.

[A]

I can weld, but I'm not a welder.

[B]

Yeah. And that's what he says. That's exactly what he says. I'm so funny. And that just reminded me of it because, again, here you are. And so do you draw? Are you already, like, a painter? Are you a Bob Ross by nature or, like, someone that drew all the time?

[A]

No, I mean, I'm definitely, like, growing up in a van, growing up weird. I can see patterns. I can. I can be adaptable, and I can find ways to solve problems. And art creativity solves problems that don't have answers.

[B]

I mean, it's just really cool. I just. I'm flipping back and forth. So my listener or my viewer, you're not going to see what I'm looking at because I'm on my laptop, but I've flipped over on a screen and I'm able to see it and go check out Nashville, Indiana's art leaf sculpture by Magnus, and you'll see, you know, exactly what we're talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And that's just that that's got to be very therapeutic for you to be Focused on something to be accomplished with a goal. So you said, okay, I need to get something done. What am I doing? And you went and did something, and you stayed busy. And I find that, you know, the idle mind is the playground of all sorts of different types of demons that could be in our heads, you know, and they could be induced by drinking, by pills that are given by doctors that you think are okay. It's like a doctor says, hey, here, take this prescription of, you know, what are they taking these days? Zoloft. And, like, you know, things like that that just are supposed to help you out. And, you know, we have a thing at Soft Rep Radio where we talk about thrills before pills. We want you to go out and enjoy the. Just go for a walk. Just go outside for a walk, you know, or go up in the mountains and try skiing or, you know, recreational therapy. If you can go to the VA and talk to your VA representative about recreational therapy versus is, you know, medicine. I'm not saying that all pills are bad pills. Like, I'm on a Rosuvastatin for my heart. Hey, I take a 5 milligram pill at night. They're like, hey, keep the cholesterol down. Rad. I'm like, okay, I believe in that. So I'm not saying don't do that. I'm just saying you could always ask, you know, is there something else? Like, could I get a mountain bike instead of, like, a bottle of Prozac or a Prozac? You know, can I. Could I get a helmet with that? And the VA does have those resources for vets.

[A]

Yeah, man. What's the opposite of death? You know? And to me, it was creation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what's the opposite of the end, you know? Or what is. Well, it's detail. The beginnings, you know? And so, like, I saw this one video where it showed, like, a normal person, like, if you look at something, a normal person's eye sort of scans it and like, okay, that's a chair or that's a. Whatever it is, you know, you just scan it. Get it. Well, an artist, I will start and scan it like this and, like, pull out every detail, every shape, every tone, every color, every. You know, and so unintentionally getting. Doing metal art to raise money, because I would sell these pieces to pay for Soaring the leaf sculpture. I had to start looking at beauty. I had to start looking at shade, depth, color. I had to start learning how to weld. I had to learn electricity, amps, joules, vote volts, you know, I Had to learn so much stuff to be able to do this one project that it was unbeknownst to me, I was rewiring my brain, you know, starting to. Anyway.

[B]

Yeah. You have to learn what MiG welding versus TiG welding is. And, like, all the different. I don't know. You're laughing. I don't know. Did I say it right?

[A]

I. I think you're being funny, dude.

[B]

No.

[A]

You got tig, mig stick. You got different rods. You got different amps. You know, it's a pain in the ass, you know, when you know what you're doing.

[B]

No. Or how the. How. The. How. How that is going to work with the weld, with the metal, with the

[A]

weld, in the conditions. Yeah.

[B]

Right. It's all I learned from watching my buddy Ajax make the tank. I was in the lab. You know, it's like watching. So I call you guys Iron Man. It's where you go in to the cave with a blowtorch and a welder, and you come out, you're like, you like this? You like my outfit? You know, you like my tank? Do you like my leaf? You know, it's like, you know, this artistic focus. I love that. Right. And so, I mean, like, everything from the beginnings of the drawing that he did on the whiteboard of the tank and how he wanted it to kind of look, you know, we still have that. It's, like, stained on our whiteboard from, like, 12 years ago. So we still have that hanging up in the garage with the war machine. So every time we look over there, we can see the original design, which was on a whiteboard. He drew it on a whiteboard.

[A]

I got it. I got to add, man, I was thinking about that. I thought, remember this while we're talking, you know, I had mentors and friends, and I did the project with a. With a local artist, and I did the project with a airbrush, you know, expert.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I got local guys that are welders to teach me. And so just like an sf, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with the team.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I developed a team to do these projects. So I can't take all ownership of that, because that wouldn't be true. But I definitely, like, orchestrated it, built the team, and, you know, drove, saw

[B]

the mission through to. To completion. And again, that's the same thing with us. We had a guy that was always helping Ajax hold the metal, tacking it, you know, and, like, they were doing it together. A skilled guy. And then I was there just taking pictures for posterity, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Making it.

[B]

I'd be like, I'd. I'll do it. A selfie with, like, holding the glove and the hammer. Like, I've done all of the work I have to do that. It's, you know, so if you ever see us in our tank, just know that it's an art piece of love for the war game community here. And. And we draft, we travel with it everywhere, honestly. Do we take out armor, personnel carriers? We take out deuce and a half because it has a 40 millimeter cannon that he patented, my business partner, for Airsoft war games, that shoots a 40 millimeter projectile ball about 100 yards safely. And so we'll shoot them into windows of buildings. We go to, like the old George Air Force Base and California, and we clash with like 800 other fighters who have semi trucks with two APCs on them. Yeah, I'm like, bro, I am. I thought I was in the hobby.

[A]

You guys are the side by side of the battlefield.

[B]

I mean, seriously. Well, yeah, and we have a. We can sit four inside, 12 on top, and then. And they all have turrets on the inside that we're up armored. Just look up the Utah War Machine Airsoft on Google. If you're listening to this on any. Any platform, and you could just see the. The War Machine itself and Ajax as the creator. I'm just. I mean, honestly, it just kept him busy. He was in there for like a year creating this tank.

[A]

Well, I mean, look at your excitement. Like, you made it, you created it, you did it with your friends. It's unique. No one else has one. Like, so all of that is like dopamine, serotonin, creativity, your neuroplasticity. You know, you're solving problems and like, it's done as a team. And it's. It's amazing and it's unique and it's yours.

[B]

And we're mechanized as a team too now. So we went from being boots on the ground, just fighting, you know, house to house to house to like, getting rolled up to the house, jumping off of it, going inside, and coming right back to it. And then. And then when the armored personnel with the tracks are coming around, we can kill them, take them out, because we have a assault vehicle, troop transport, and we have to have infantry with us, otherwise we're always exposed. Everybody thinks, oh, the War Machine's coming. We're like, ah, I need three infantry guys around me right now.

[A]

But yeah, man, like, that's the power

[B]

of creativity for ptsd, though, war games that we do. I meet guys like you all the time that are in the games. You know, guys that have been there, guys that can never go because they had asthma. Somebody who's just looking to shoulder to shoulder. They get out of the military, they're like, what do I do? And they come into our war game shop and they meet me or they meet our guys and they're like, you guys do this? This is your hobby. We're like, yeah, we go out into the desert. We're there for like 8, 10 hours at a time. On a Saturday, we fight until 2, 3 in the morning with tracer units and all these night visions and thermal optics. I mean, what's a guy gonna do when he's got some adult money? You know, you've worked your whole, yeah, it's like, sounds cool equipment. It is fun. And it's a good way to stay in the clique with somebody or be in a community and be brought back into that. You know, there's a lot of guys like yourself that, like I said, 20 years of doing that scale of what I've done here, and I just meet people who have a good time. And I've also lost people like you have who've tried to reach out to me and say, rad, I'm not doing so good today. And I'm like, oh, you got this, you know, Zachary. And a couple days later, Zachary didn't have it no more. And I couldn't stop that. And I had to tell myself, you know, you know, freedom of choice. You have that right as a person to, you know, put a tattoo on yourself, but you don't have to put it on me. You have that right to, you know, do what you want to do, drive a kind of car, but I don't have to drive the same thing. Freedom of choice. So if you want to. If I tell somebody I love them, and I've expressed to them that many times, and, like, we care about you and you mean things to me and you mean things to others, but they still choose their path. I can't stop that choice. I can only tell them you're going to be loved and lost at the same time. So.

[A]

Well, that, I mean that. That opens up an issue with veteran suicide, right? Because you've got all this awareness, which is sometimes, like too much, because then that's what people are talking about. But then if you don't talk about it, you can't introduce solutions like, why

[B]

didn't anybody ever talk about it?

[A]

Right, yeah.

[B]

And then you're always talking about it. It's like you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

[A]

So. So it's this really tricky thing over the last 13 years where, you know, I want to acknowledge it in the beginning, I did want to raise awareness, but as we get further along down the road, you know, as I try to shift to solution, to programs, to all these, like, you know, the marketing, the branding, whatever, like, shift it more towards like community, faith, art, whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I want to acknowledge the suicide but focus on the solution. A lot of, A lot of people don't like that. They want to keep hearing about the problem, you know, and so I'm constantly torn between talking about the problem but trying to get into the solution, not ruminating on the problem, you know, and, but it's, it's, it's.

[B]

Well, and the thing about the problem is that it's just a fraction of a moment in somebody's mind, like they might have dwelled on it. I'm not going to say that's not something someone hasn't thought about it or they're like totally saturating their mind with it and they're, they're going to go along with it. I can't stop that. But you might be able to reach the person that's, you know, I don't know. I guess my dad just told me that if you had a half a second to think about it before you did it, you wouldn't have done it. He's like that, Aaron. He's like, you know, these guys that might take themselves out in life suicide, if they had a half a second to stop pulling the trigger, they would do it.

[A]

You've. A mentor of mine said this. I didn't, I didn't come up with this, but he said it, he said there's a difference between wanting to kill yourself and not wanting to live. Right. So there's this little, like separating the bone from the marrow. You know, there's some people that don't want to live, and there's some people that in an instant want to take, kill, you know, take their life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And some people can ruminate, ruminate, ruminate, and like get weaker, weaker, weaker. And then others, it's just like this rogue wave and it overwhelms them and they respond to it. And all in between, everything in between. It's a strange, strange thing.

[B]

You know, I was never, I guess as a young man growing up, we seem like of the same era. I'm 48 today. But, you know, Dr. Kevorkian was, you know, the doctor that would go around to patients and he would record the situation. So it was all on camera. And they were ridden with cancer or they had other ailments that were just like, inhabitating. And they wanted to make the choice to exit this life with a doctor. Not some grotesque way, not some, you know, I'm gonna leave this for my kids to find downstairs swinging kind of thing. Okay. Like, respectful. You take your dog to the vet, you have to sometimes put it down. I'm just saying I was okay with Jack Kevorkian being on call to do that. For patients who chose that path. That's their choice. That's just me.

[A]

Well, there's another one, right? Like being a libertine. Free will, suffering, reaching out. How much do you pursue somebody? What if they want to be left alone? What are their rights? What are your rights? What's, you know, I mean, it's a difficult. Another layered situation that forces us to deal with our morals, our ethics, our values, real time in crisis. And, you know, my solution to that is to build in a community and environment to, you know, drop as many rocks in the water, to elevate it where there's good positive attitude, positive people, positive programs, options, and create an environment where that solution is less likely.

[B]

You know, I love what you have on your website. Let's see here. Let me just click on it real quick. I think it's a crisis button. Like if you're in [e-mail] if you happen to be looking there and, and it triggers you to think maybe you are, you know, you could reach out and there's help right there at your website.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, like a lot of, A lot of veteran organizations, va all that is, you know, crisis, crisis, crisis. I wish I didn't have to have that stuff on there. But, you know, people always reach out, like, hey, you need that on there. Because we're not a crisis center, we're not a crisis organization. You know, we do long term programs for people with probably moderate ptsd, not even severe. And, you know, you got moral injury, moderate ptsd, depression, you know, difficulty transitioning, looking for identity, purpose. Like that's more Mission 22's niche. But, you know, it's a reality that there's a lot of people in crisis all the time.

[B]

You know, what about that person that just feels guilty about things that they just dealt with. They're just guilty inside and something they thought they maybe replay over and over again and they think, like, I could have changed it if I'd done this. I could have done this differently. And they're just guilt. Guilt stricken. You know, it's like there's. And it wasn't their fault, and they're just tormented by this situation. I. I mean, there's. There is. There is snowboarding. You can go snowboarding and try to, like, forget about that and try to stay alive on a mountain while you're sliding at 45 miles an hour. You know, it's like. Like going into the cave and trying to make your leaf and then bringing it back to fruition, trying to get rid of, you know, that guilt and that demon. It's like going in and making the tank. I. I promise you. You know, my buddy Ajax probably has a demon, okay? And he. Well, he's working on his tank. It's. It's. It's not. It's not bothering him.

[A]

The visualization I had when I started Mission 22 and started these art projects is I kind of saw my life like a scale, but I'm. I'm in charge of the little pebbles, and I committed that I'm just going to keep dropping little pebbles on the positive side until that son of a bitch tips.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, whether that's saying something nice, praying for somebody, being creative, saying, I'm sorry, whatever it is, reading a book, saying yes instead of no, being willing to go to the. You know, be willing, be humble and put in the effort, no matter how small, over time, and stack that habit until that scale tips. And then now your life is surrounded with good people, good food, good friends, things to do, things that are interesting.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You know, and it doesn't happen overnight. It wasn't like, oh, I went to the therapist, they gave me a pill, and I'm all better now, like that, you know, and it didn't happen because I made the leaf sculpture. It wasn't like, oh, yeah, I'm all better now.

[B]

It was consistency.

[A]

Yeah. And I didn't even realize how much better I'm getting until people around me are like, hey, man, it's really fun that you were here, you know, or whatever. But that took time, you know, like, at first. Yeah, that guy's weird, you know? And so over time, my whole landscape changed. But I was in charge of those little pebbles.

[B]

That's right. And you were going to be, damn, dude. You're like, I'm just going to tip this scale with all of my pebbles and make me be me. And you just took control and.

[A]

And I committed to the process.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, it. What do I got to lose?

[B]

What do you have to lose?

[A]

I don't have a job. I'm out of the military. No one gives a shit. You know, like, what do I got to lose? Fuck it. I'm gonna make art. I'm gonna say what I want to say. I'm gonna talk to people, I'm gonna do things, and I'm just gonna practice making these little decisions over and over and over again.

[B]

Pretty metal, bro. I think you're pretty metal is what I gotta effing say, dude. I think that's like, metal. Like metal to the core. When I go through TSA and they're like, do you have all your metal out? I said, except for my soul, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, that's going to go off, you know, so it's like, you can never take that metal out of me, bro. And I feel so metal from you. Like, I don't know what your dad played or how you guys traveled or what he did in a band, but yo, you know, there's a little bit of that.

[A]

His Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Hank Williams Jr. You know, and he kind of put a little rock and roll to it and played on the streets, man. He had the big drum, he had the steel guitar. He was, you know, he was a street musician. But I love that. No, you just can't give up. No matter how much you're getting beat down and like, at. Sometimes all you can do is continue however little, however much, and you just have to maintain that ardent face against it.

[B]

You know that. That brings me to. You wrote a. You have a book, right? Am I correct? It's called the Men We Make.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Right.

[B]

Okay. Oh, look at that. So. And. And it's cool. And it's got some breakdown on the back about you and talks about, you know, your history of. Of what you've done. But, you know, how long ago did you decide that I need to now be an artist with the craft of words? Because that's what you've just done. Here again, more art. Well,

[A]

I. Okay. When I turned 18, I read a book called Angela's Ashes. You ever read it or heard about it?

[B]

I haven't, no.

[A]

It's about an Irish guy and is like, coming of age. His dad's a drunk. They're poor. Long story short, he makes it to America, he becomes a teacher, and it's a memoir. And I read it at 18, man. And it grabbed me. I was like, wow, this is basically like. I mean, my family's Welsh scotch, you know, so there's a lot of things that kind of resonated with me. And so I'd always thought, man, there was like, this piece of me is like, oh, maybe I could do that someday. You know, I could live where I wanted, work where I wanted. No rules. I could just write. And that's something I could do anywhere, anytime, any place. And over and over and over, I would try to write, and it would suck. I would try to do a story, and it wasn't that good. I would try to write something that wasn't that great. I can speak well. I can present. I can talk. I can communicate with my words, but I can't. I couldn't write. I couldn't write fiction or I couldn't write a novel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I tried and tried and tried. And, man, my. My wife every time was like, it's not very good. You know, that's not very good. Like, oh, and she'll tell you, you know, because if you read. If you read the thing in the beginning of the book, it's. This is true. It says the forward.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To my wife, who didn't tell me my writing was good until it was. And, like, every word of that is true, dude. And the economy sucks. America has been divided. Covid Facebook algorithms. It's nasty out there, you know, even in the veteran world, things are divisive. And everywhere you look, like, things are just kind of not what they used to be. I was laying in bed, resentful, bitter, pissed off, kind of at myself, at America, at what I was doing, how I felt like I wasn't gaining, like, getting good traction on a lot of my efforts. And, man, I'd like, here's the guy, the founder of Mission 22, laying in bed, like, off and on for, like, two days, like, having a pity party, dude. Having a pity party. Like, dude, everything I'm doing is falling apart. And then something kind of clicked to me where I was like, you know what I'm just gonna do? Do it. I'm just gonna write. I'm not gonna write so that it's. People like it. I'm not gonna write a story. I think think people on the left or people on the right or veterans or anybody is going to love. I'm just going to write what I believe is not necessarily. It's. The book isn't true, but my. The writing I'm going to write true. I'm going to write from my heart. I'm going to be, I'm just going to do it. No editor watching the whole time, critiquing myself as I'm trying to do it. And man, after years and years and years of attempting, in about four months I was able to just go. And then I was, you know, we finished, I got it edited, I got a bunch of help to, you know, clean it up. And now it's out.

[B]

It's out right now we can, as of this podcast. It's out, right?

[A]

Yeah, man. It's a story of a boy. His name's Darren. And I tell the story twice. In one iteration of the story. His parents, his family are drug abusers, abusers, alcoholics, selfish, petty, greedy. And then I reimagine the story with the people, the same characters, but they have just a smidgen of like love and effort. They're still the same people. They still kind of come from the same background. The difference is, is whether or not they try, do they try to fight their demons, do they try to be sober, do they try to be patient versus just being, you know, completely self centered and devoid of love. And so you know, when you're shooting, if you're off where, you know, if you're, you're not dialed in, if you're off in the beginning, you're going to be off by a lot by the time you get out to target. So it's the same thing with relationships and love and our efforts with the people in our lives. If you're not putting in the effort up front, by the time it impacts it can, it's going to be way off or it's going to hit center. And so I wanted to show that through a novel.

[B]

I love that, I love that. And it's called the Men we make right by Magnus Johnson.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. It's the men we make. I mean, you know, it's that old, you know, nurture versus nature. A lot of, you know, there's a lot of negative talk about men, about toxic masculinity, about this by that, you know, but I don't think that we really take into account our own, our own lot, you know, our own effort, our own, our own responsibility for as a community, how we enrich, support, lead, mentor, you know, young men that need it. Instead we 100, you know, we condemn them. You're too aggressive.

[B]

You're there, you're crying. Stop crying one way or the other. What are you doing? Yeah, either way it's just like it's

[A]

either over feminism, over feminized, or like brutal, masculine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And horrible. And I'm, you know, hey, we got to cultivate and direct and shape and we got to take responsibility for the men in our community because they represent us, they represent our future.

[B]

And there is a epidemic. You know, I talk with my wife and others, and there is an epidemic of male loneliness.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Due to the Internet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, they don't. They don't. You're not getting outside, you're not going and meeting anybody at the dance club. Like, when I grew up, we'd go to the club and like, try to dance, break dance to the Beastie Boys or whatever song was on the. You know, I'm just saying. And there's people there and you can meet them. And so I find Airsoft to allow these young men, 12 to 99. Nine to 99, coming through my world. And they're like, club Airsoft. I'm like, what's up, guys? They're like, hey, you're kind of a beacon. Rad. And I'm like, am I. Am I a lighthouse for you? Well, come fight with us then. Right? You got to get some ammo, though. There's ammo on the shelf. Bring that to the cash register. I'll see you out in the battle. But again, they know me out in the battle as being the same person. I only sell this stuff because I like to keep the sport going, because it makes me happy to see people happy. So therefore, I'm like, well, I need to supply it. I grew up in a Green Beret armory my whole life as a little kid with all of this stuff. My dad's like, sorry I introduced it to you so young. I was like, I love it, dad. Why? And he's like, that's why. And I'm like, oh, dad, don't be so smart. But again, he loves the idea of what we. Of what we were doing before he passed. And again, right now, when you go up to my arena in Layton and you pay $20 for a four hour session, you're getting five bucks an hour to be around instructors that I've and my team have put together to run the games in there for this 15, 18, 22 year old who maybe gets out of school at 3 o', clock, needs to do something. They come in there, I'm like, find daycare for less than five bucks an hour.

[A]

Well, I mean, dude, I mean, like, people aren't outside much. Most of the time is spent on a device or a screen. Men's testosterone Levels today, like a 20 year old. The average testosterone level of 20 year old today is less than a 60 year old from the 1960s. Culturally, there's these like big division where it's either men are horrible or men gotta be, you know, and so, so it's like harder and harder for them to find mentorship in a direction it's supportive and has the feminine and the masculine right and they're getting blamed for everything. That's not entirely true. And like men's men are doing not as well in school. Death of despair, which means like drug addict, drug overdose, alcohol, suicide. These are very big and real problems. And I believe it started in the veteran community first. And it's like, you know, the veterans are kind of the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. This big issue that's now starting to appear, you know, everywhere at large.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's not why I wrote the book per se, but that's kind of what came out in the book adjacently to me. Just trying to tell a good story.

[B]

Well, I, I love that and I love you for taking time to be on my show today and bring some really cool calm demeanor and Green Beret love and USSF Airborne, you know. You're so cool, bro. Anytime I see a guy dressed up with a blue cord on their shoulder, I just think of my dad, you know, and so it's just, it's just how it goes. And you guys represent what I feel to be the best, you know, and the best in all things. Whether it was my baseball coach was a Green Beret or my dad's medic that showed up to the house that day when he had a seizure was his own unit guy working in the city as the medic. You know, you just don't know who these guys are because they're your next door neighbor. You're just a, you're a father, you know, I'm just saying most guys are like a father. They have, you know, coaching going on, they have school, PTA to still try to attend to, all while maintaining this DEO preso liber mindset for freeing the oppressed that they're tasked with being involved with. And you guys are just, just the best of the best. And I love you. I love you. I appreciate you.

[A]

Well, dude, it was a super honor to be on your. It was a big honor to be on your show. Love your energy, man. I, you know, you're making me smile, you know.

[B]

Oh, that's great. I love that, dude.

[A]

It was good, man. It was a good Experience. And I really, you know, I didn't. I should have known about the book club. I hope people like you now. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, the thing is, is what we'll do is we'll talk to Guy, who's my main editor at Software Rep, and then they all get behind the scenes and figure out the book club. I'll just say, hey, Guy, let's just try to slide your book into the book club. And then the people that are already, you know, our viewers that are in the book club, they can just choose it and read it.

[A]

Dude, that'd be so awesome because, like, what we were talking about, I don't know. If you got to go. If you got to go, we'll stop.

[B]

Oh, no, please, please.

[A]

You know, when I try to get an agent, man, most of them are looking for feminist. You know, all these other top. Like, it's not exactly an easy time for a guy like me to publish a novel. And I. It was a lot of headwind with a lot of different kind of gender politics, all this stuff, and I went ahead anyway, man, and, you know, because I've always had to believe in my creative effort. And if it. If it's good, it'll stand. If it's not, it won't. And so you guys taking the time to talk to me about it, to look into it, it means a lot, and I really appreciate it.

[B]

Well, I would love to exploit your book and put it out there for everybody to hear and. Or to read. And, you know, and you should maybe do an audible if you haven't already. With you doing the words, you reading it, it would make just so much more of a passion piece to come from you, you know, because you wrote it. And I've read. I'm a. I'm a. I've read novels. I'm a character, you know, I'm Chief Finn, and all the Steel series from Brandon Webb and all these different books that he does. I understand reading 800 pages okay. Over three days. It's intense. But I think that you should do it because you just would make that a great. It would cross over so well to listen to you talk about. Read your book.

[A]

You know, I'll tell my wife.

[B]

I'll tell my wife. You already said you're good at talking. You said you're good at speaking.

[A]

I don't know about. Dude, have you done research on. It's harder than you think to do an Audible book?

[B]

I've done it. That's what I was saying. Yes. No, maybe you do it.

[A]

Maybe you Read it.

[B]

I tell you what. You know, I read these thick books for Brandon Webb. He's our.

[A]

Okay creator here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were joking with me for a minute.

[B]

No, no. His character is Chief Finn in all of his novels.

[A]

Okay, I get it.

[B]

I am the voice of all of the characters in the book because I have to read the entire book, you know, and.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm also chief, so all these different characters have to come to life, you know? No, it's fun, and that's a good way, because a lot of us can listen, you know what I mean? They have their airplane, you know, they're driving in their truck across country. I get guys all the time that reach out to me. Hey, man, I'm doing the long haul, and your podcast gets me through. Wait till they listen to this one. Okay, Big trucker out there. Listen to this podcast, dude.

[A]

If you like. If you like the novel. No, if you don't, that's fine. But if you do, man, like, let me know, because that's a. That's a tall order for me to. That another skill while I'm trying to write my second book. And so I don't know if I can add another one to the. An audible to the plate.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you just let me know. And you just got to get a guy that'll record you for three days in his studio, and he'll be stoked to meet you and help you read this and get a paycheck. Am I getting paid? I got all this equipment. You know, the artist. The art of playing in a band is you spend like $5,000 on a bass amp and a bass and a car to fit it all. You have to get a minivan and then all this stuff. And then the drummer wants to put his stuff in there with you all to play a $50 gig.

[A]

Yeah, but that's the price, dude.

[B]

That's the price, bro. You want to bring it to life. You want to sit there and do that. You know? I'm playing high for you. Here you go. I'll play a little higher like this on the base. I don't know, you just feel like a rocker, dude, so I just want you to keep on rocking.

[A]

I appreciate it, man. I had a great time. I really appreciate you having me on the show.

[B]

Well, thank you. And we'll dissertate down below. My guy, Callum, he listens to the show blindly, and then he'll write up what he says the show is about. I love to see it because I'm like, oh, what does he think the show's about today? So he'll write it out. He'll say, hey, this is what it's all about. So if you look at all of the photos and the dissertations below with the links, that's my guy, Callum. Thanks, Callum. I appreciate you behind the scenes producing us. And to Brandon Webb and everybody out there that believe in me to run the show and having guests like you reach out and lock it in quick and just rolling with it, I appreciate you. And if. If you ever want to be back on the show and talk about anything else so much more, I'm sure that there we could crack into besides just introducing you to the audience. Right? Really, we just talked a little bit about that. So please feel free to say this is your first time on, but there's more times that you're welcome back. You're a good spirit. I love to see you smile. I love. If I can make you smile, then, you know, that's a good photo right there for, you know, for your wife to see a smile.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah, you got me right up the intro. Oh, yeah, bro. Thanks to her, too, for being awesome and. And kicking your butt and. And being there and being your beacon. I'm sure of it, dude, because my wife is mine and women in stem. Okay,

[A]

dude, my wife is mensa, bro.

[B]

Oh, yeah, she is. She is.

[A]

I'm barely hanging on, dude.

[B]

The hot ones always love rock stars, bro. Okay, I'm just gonna tell you right now. And they were like, what is it? I love you, babe. I love you so much. That's all I can say to mine, so. Well, thanks again, and I guess I'll wind down our show. I've had you for about an hour. You've been a wonderful guest, a great spirit on the show. Thanks for doing all you've done for our country and in a selfless way and being a Green Beret and the best of the best, airborne with honors, and boom, dude, you get that from me. And thanks again for being on the show.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

All right. And to my fans out there, listeners, go check out mission22.org and go check out the book, the Men we make by Magnus Johnson. And please leave a review where you buy it. So if you're on Amazon and you're buying it there, leave a review. Okay? And if you buy it at Barnes and Noble, wherever it's at, leave them a review. And if you want to reach out through Mission 22 to see if there's a space for you, probably to help him in his mission. I'm sure that's a welcome, you know, email. So feel free to reach out through your email to mission22.org, hit up Magnus and his team. It's an elite team. If you go look at everybody that's involved on your website, they've all got something that they bring to the table. And that's what makes a great team, is a good manager, has a great team that makes them look smart. So good job looking smart. And this is rad. On behalf of everybody at Soft Rep and the Merch Store, say in peace. You've been listening to Soft Rep Radio.

[A]

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