Podcast Summary: Some Work, All Play — Episode 294

Title: The Bicarb Revolution, Theory of Doubles, Vitamin D Supplementation, Stairmill Training, and Zone 2 Weirdness!
Hosts: David Roche and Megan Roche, M.D.
Release Date: January 20, 2026

Overview

In this lively, science-forward episode of "Some Work, All Play," David and Megan dive into a buffet of running, health, and training topics. From the intricacies of vitamin D supplementation and its sometimes surprising relationship with athletes’ health, to the newest studies on sodium bicarbonate ingestion for performance, to deep musings on injury and motivation, the pair dish out research, real-world advice, love, and laughs. The episode balances hard evidence with practical, sometimes cheeky, and always authentic anecdotes from their training and coaching lives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Sweaty, Smelly Realities of Winter Training & Vitamin D Supplementation

• [01:10] David kicks things off with a real-world tip: he's now supplementing with vitamin D and finds not all forms are equal—previous sources gave him heart palpitations; now, a new form has him feeling energetic (and maybe extra smelly!).
• [03:19] They reference a 2015 meta-analysis showing 56% of athletes were vitamin D 'inadequate', even in summer (cutoff: <32 ng/mL). Megan points out:

  "Having seen athlete blood work, it’s not surprising to me... I say push your levels above 50." (06:02)

• [05:10] Both recommend bloodwork before supplementation. David's routine: 5,000 IU/day + children’s gummies; Megan’s: 6,000–7,000 IU but warns higher doses can cause issues.
• [06:09] David was at low-normal levels (upper 20s, low 30s); Megan:

  "Don’t call me a low boy, Megan. I am so adequate." (06:15)

2. Deodorant Wars: Gendered Scents and Misadventures

• [06:32] David switches to women’s deodorants, finding them stronger and more effective.

  "Old Spice doesn’t do shit. It makes you smell like dusty oregano." (07:55)

• Megan notes:

  "As a woman, I don’t know if I want my man smelling like a college lacrosse locker room." (06:41)

3. Training Life Updates: Injury, Adapting, and Smart Pivots

• [08:39] Megan describes canceling a big YouTube treadmill session due to a minor foot pain, and quickly pivots to the bike—highlighting the maturity of stopping early to prevent injury.

  "Three days off solves most problems... Three days off saves three weeks, saves three months." (10:36)

• David contrasts this with his own injury history, noting he ran “for two months” on a stress reaction.
• [11:30] Megan finds new joy in gravel biking as a cross-training alternative — "I might even love it more than running."

4. Shockwave Therapy and Husbands in Boots

• [12:05] David undergoes focused shockwave therapy for his foot, describing the pain as "childbirth-level" and suggesting he "ripped up all the exam paper on the table."

5. Reflections: Obliteration as a Goal?

• [14:40] Megan and David touch on balancing the drive to “obliterate one's self” in racing with long-term health, especially as they age and recover from injury:

  "Maybe that’s good for health. So there’s a balance there I need to strike in the future..." (15:53)

Science & Training Deep Dives

6. News & Shoe Tech Updates

• [22:22] Inside scoop: Biomechanics researcher Wilder Hookamper may be joining HOKA, signaling big advancements for HOKA’s tech.
• [25:28] Jeffrey Burns’ single-athlete shoe study: the Norda 005 (no plate, advanced foam) outperformed both a super-light control shoe and the plated HOKA Tecton X3 for oxygen consumption. Megan is impressed:

  "Compared to the Keurag, the Tecton reduced oxygen consumption by 1.6%. The Norda was 3.2%!" (28:04)

7. The Bicarb Revolution: New Study at Altitude

• [32:12] Study: Effect of Sodium Bicarbonate Mini-Tablets in a Carbohydrate Hydrogel on Cycling Performance at 1,850m Altitude (Morton tabs).
  • Key findings:
    • 1.2% improvement in a 40km time trial (one of the longer durations studied).
    • Benefits most apparent in the final quartiles of effort.
  • Cautions:
    • Placebo didn’t sodium-match; possible confound.
    • GI upsets common in both groups; runners may have more GI issues than cyclists.
  • Use tips: Try dividing Morton “elephant dose” tabs, start with smaller amounts (0.1–0.2 g/kg), avoid right before running races.

  "Bicarb is the next level... you just need one of these new dosing methods that doesn’t cause GI symptoms." (39:56)

8. Gnomeo: The Next Big Thing?

• [19:00] David is obsessed with Gnomeo (broccoli extract supplement), citing potential benefits for recovery and mitochondrial health, not just performance:

  "It might make overreaching kind of impossible. And that's my dream." (20:05)

• Megan tries it and notes a strong taste—"maybe I’m just biased... if it’s this strong, it must be doing something." (21:02)
• Tip: Start pre-high intensity or tough sessions, or as a recovery aid; dosing is still experimental.

9. CBD Study: Does It Do Anything?

• [43:11] 300mg CBD (way over typical doses):
  • Reported 21% more calm and 8% lower RPE, but no performance difference.
  • All athletes immediately knew which condition was in play.
  • High CBD doses pose a risk for THC contamination in competition testing.

Rapid-Fire Q&A and Training Nuggets

10. Biking “Pain,” Doubles Theory, and Stairmills

• [49:15] Q: Why does biking (even easy) hurt so much?
  • Biking causes more muscular tension vs. running. Getting out of the saddle can help relieve tension.
• [54:15] Q: Is breaking workouts into doubles (or even triples) beneficial?
  • For injury prevention, yes—shorter sessions reduce acute stress. But doubles are most useful for pros (who can rest between); not always realistic for busy lives.

  "Double theory does mostly come from professional athletes... always give doubles as optional." (56:30)

• [60:37] Stairmill: Endorsed as excellent cross-training, especially for power and as a “double” (second workout).

  "The stairmill is a great answer to combine with doubles theory... for power building." (61:54)

• [64:26] Heart rate zones: Ignore Garmin’s or Strava’s defaults if they don’t match perceived effort or lactate data; context and self-knowledge matter.

  "Garmin zones are sometimes very strange. Your zone two is not that low." (64:33)

11. Gear Shoutouts

• Chorus armband: Best new fitness tech for accurate HR, especially for interval/threshold work.
• Wahoo KICKR RUN treadmill: Smoother than anything; handles steep inclines beautifully.
• Janji clothing: Hosts love the multi short (David), women's long bra and cargo pant (Megan); Janji Collective offers lifetime discounts.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On injury & adaptation:

  "Three days off solves most problems... Three days off saves three weeks, saves three months." (10:36, David)

• On shoe science:

  "I think the main driver... was shoe weight mixed with whatever tech was then put into it." (27:39, David)

• On bicarb supplementation:

  "Just order the elephant dose, then cut it into thirds or halves, and give it a try." (39:56, David)

• On the placebo effect:

  "One of the reasons I think bicarb is effective is solely because you get in the routine and then you feel as if you have body armor." (59:38, David)

• On logic vs heart:

  "Logic isn't motivating. The whole point is doing something that scares you... Dreaming illogically." (79:15, David)

Hope Core Corner: Recommendations for the Soul

[29:13] David’s “Hope Core” media for good vibes:

• Films: Palm Springs, Interstellar, Into the Spider-Verse
• TV: New Girl, The Good Place, Parks & Rec
• Books: Station Eleven (book & miniseries), Project Hail Mary (Andy Weir)
• Poetry: Mary Oliver (Megan)

Time-Stamped Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:10 | Vitamin D supplementation in athletes | | 06:32 | Deodorant woes: Gendered scents discussion | | 08:39 | Training updates: Injury pivot, smart rest | | 12:05 | Shockwave therapy: "childbirth-level" pain | | 14:40 | Reflections on racing mindsets & injury | | 22:22 | Shoe nerd news: Biomechanics researcher to HOKA? | | 25:28 | Trail super shoe study: Norda vs HOKA Tecton X3 | | 32:12 | Bicarb at altitude: Morton mini-tab cycling study | | 42:55 | New CBD study: 300mg trial in athletes | | 49:15 | Q: Why does biking hurt? Biking vs running adaptation | | 54:15 | Q: Doubles (two-a-day workouts): Are they better? | | 60:37 | Q: Stairmill for cross-training | | 64:26 | Q: Heart rate zone confusion | | 66:46 | Q: Can thinking calming thoughts lower my heart rate? | | 73:10 | Q: How to use Gnomeo? Recovery vs. performance dosing | | 76:08 | Q: Should I add intensity if my aerobic/threshold HRs are far apart? | | 79:05 | Q: Should I follow logic or heart when signing up for a 100-mile race? |

Tone & Takeaways

David and Megan cultivate an energetic, supportive, and science-anchored tone—balancing evidence with humor and vulnerability.
Whether you're an elite runner, aspiring athlete, or passionate about exercise science, this episode leaves you with practical tips, nerdy details, and the wisdom to listen to both your body and your heart.

End Note

Key message:

• Respect recovery.
• Supplement wisely (do your labs).
• Seek joy in your process—dream illogically, and don’t be afraid to get a little smelly along the way.
• “Dream illogically”: Maybe the best running advice of all.

Fan Favorite Moments

• David’s full-body deodorant crisis.
• The “shockwave therapy = childbirth” metaphor and subsequent banter about tearing up exam tables.
• Megan’s real talk: “Push your levels above 50 [vitamin D].”
• The happy wank, mozzarella stick pile, and ongoing “boot off, Voltaren on” jokes.
• Rapid-fire Q&A with blunt truth bombs and candid, science-backed takes.

For full training plans, science deep-dives, and bonus banter: check out the SWAP Patreon and connect with the community!

SWAP Episode 294: Science, stoke, and serious (and silly) strategy for a thriving athletic life.