30. Taper Strategy and Embracing Uniqueness in Work

Summary

Some Work, All Play – Episode 30: Taper Strategy and Embracing Uniqueness in Work

Hosts: David Roche & Megan Roche, M.D.
Release Date: January 5, 2021

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Overview

This episode dives into two main themes: lessons from sports stories (with a focus on Steph Curry’s journey) and how to embrace individuality and self-worth both in sport and life/work. The second half offers a science-driven deep dive into tapering strategies for runners, emphasizing individuality in both running and personal growth. As always, David and Megan infuse the episode with joy, humor, and memorable stories (including llamas, dog races, and chocolate croissants).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from Steph Curry: Practice, Change, and Swag

• Steph Curry’s 105 Three-Pointer Streak ([00:32]–[01:13]):
  • Curry made 105 consecutive 3-pointers during practice. The hosts marvel at the sheer skill and routine behind such a performance.
  • David: “It’s remarkable to think about the amount of skill and practice and history that goes into that type of performance.” ([01:13])
• Transformational Change in Curry’s Shot ([01:54]–[03:16]):
  • Curry changed his shooting form as a teenager—his dad made him rebuild his shot from scratch, rendering him temporarily ineffective.
    • Quote from Curry: “I really couldn’t shoot outside the paint for like the first three weeks... All summer when I was at camps, people were like, ‘Who are you? Why are you playing basketball?’ I was really that bad for a month and a half before I finally figured it out.” ([02:23])
  • Lesson: Major growth often requires a painful, vulnerable period of being bad at something you once excelled at.
• Long-Term Commitment vs. Short-Term Feedback ([04:01]–[04:35]):
  • Many studies and coaches focus on the short-term costs of changing form, missing the long-term payoff (like Curry’s transformation).
  • Parallel drawn to running: changing stride or form can look unwise in the short run, but over years may yield big breakthroughs.
• Rejection & Perseverance ([05:10]–[05:56]):
  • Curry got no Division I offers out of high school, despite averaging 20 points/game—even the school his father starred for passed.
• Grit + Swag ([08:01]–[09:38]):
  • The hosts admire Curry’s blend of calm, confidence, and relentless positivity, honed by years of repetition and family support.
    • David: “He just shoots every shot and is like, ‘I am the baddest motherfucker in this place.’” ([08:34])

2. Embracing your Uniqueness through Sports & Life parables

• Dog Racing & Embracing Individual “Breed” ([10:24]–[13:24]):
  • Analogies from televised dog races—where dogs are measured against their breed’s average time, not against each other.
  • Takeaway: Don’t compare across irrelevant dimensions (age, gender, starting points). Focus on your own context and relative growth.
  • Big-hearted Last Place: The “Dead Effing Last” (DFL) award goes to a Pekingese, praised as “the slowest dog with the biggest heart.”
    • Megan: “They actually described the DFL award as the slowest dog with the biggest heart, which I think is a beautiful way to describe that award.” ([13:13])
• Chocolate Croissant Story (European Trail Race Anecdote) ([12:03]–[12:58]):
  • In a tough moment, Megan motivates David using humor, food, and a “we’re in this together” attitude. Running is about camaraderie, not just results.
• Lamar Jackson’s “Cramping Mystery” ([13:24]–[15:10]):
  • Football star Lamar Jackson leaves a game with “cramps,” stirring internet speculation that he just needed a bathroom break.
  • Megan’s favorite headline: “‘Did Lamar Jackson Run off the Field to Poop?’ and then the subtitle is ‘Everybody poops.’ That is a Ballin subtitle.” ([14:42])
  • Lesson: Everybody faces awkward setbacks—and it doesn’t mean the game is lost.
• Shey Peddy’s Perseverance and the Value of Being Ready ([15:10]–[18:09]):
  • Shey Peddy joined the WNBA at 30, after working as a video editor for the team. Later, she wins a playoff game for Phoenix Mercury with a last-second 3-pointer—against her former team.
  • David: “That’s what I call on... Shea Petty is the person that I want to channel in podcasting and running and everything else, too.” ([17:57])

3. Audience Q&A: Embracing Uniqueness in Work/Academia ([18:11]–[23:33])

Listener LA asks: What if my unique strengths aren’t valued where I am?

• Impostor Syndrome & Value of Unique Skills
  • Megan shares her experience feeling overwhelmed in her PhD program’s stats-heavy environment and identifies with the listener’s struggle.
  • Megan: “There’s certain points in epidemiology or my PhD program that I just have to get through. And those points don’t have to be A’s. And then there’s other points that I love... and those are the points that I can, like, embrace.” ([19:51])
  • David reflects on law school’s “gunners” and how he succeeded by not playing someone else’s game.
  • David: “Like those things that are unique... That’s the thing that will make you rise to whatever level you can get to in the future...” ([22:12])
• Practical Takeaways:
  • Find and double down on the parts of a job or program that are yours; don’t fret if you don’t excel at everything.
  • Uniqueness leads you to places you wouldn’t have predicted.

4. Tapering for Ultra Marathons ([23:36]–[29:53])

Listener KS asks: How should I taper for my upcoming 50k?

• Individualization is Key
  • Megan: “Every runner is so individual on this topic. And I think a lot of that too is related to what mileage runners are actually doing.” ([24:52])
  • David: “If you start to break it down into even more hyper individuality things like muscle fiber distribution... understanding that individualization is important.” ([25:19])
• Basic Taper Guidelines
  • 10–14 days out: Some workout intensity is helpful; keep strides or a short tempo within the taper.
    • Megan: “I will give athletes like four to five days out from race day like a 10–20 minute tempo...great for stoking that central governor.” ([26:02])
  • Last long run: 1 week out; not as long as usual.
  • Don’t reduce training too fast: For lower-mileage runners, dramatic taper can risk detrain.
    • David: “If someone’s running a 30 mile week and doing at 25% or 50% taper, that’s down to 10 or 15 miles a week... they might detrain.” ([25:19])
  • Muscle tension and rest: Striking the right balance is key (cf. Steve Magness). Don’t take extra rest days; keep muscle “springy.”
    • David: “You can think of it like a rubber band... you don’t want the rubber band to get too loose.” ([27:13])
  • Avoid NSAIDs close to race day—possible impact on muscle tension and kidney function.
• Psychological Side
  • Do not radically change your life schedule pre-race, just reduce mileage and intensity.
  • Address resistance to tapering—sometimes it’s an excuse.
  • Marry science with “Steph Curry swag”: believe in your preparation, even if you’ve “missed ten in a row.”
    • David: “Go into that race with swag. With that Steph Curry swag…knowing it’s going to go in even when it hasn’t gone in 10 times before.” ([29:29])
• Self-Love as Training
  • David: “I think maybe self love is the most important thing...give yourself the love each day with less stress, like understanding your body and going in with swag...” ([29:38])
  • Megan laughs at the mistaken (but welcome) double entendre.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Embracing Growth:
  • “Any change feels like that – anytime you decide to make a concerted effort to alter something that you’ve always done.” – David ([04:35])
• On Comparison:
  • “Let’s strive not to compare and to have really big Pekingese hearts and eat chocolate croissants.” – David ([13:24])
• On Perseverance:
  • “She was waiting for one on that plane to freaking Latvia, and then she was waiting for one in the corner three, you know, and she was willing to shoot that shot...” – David ([17:53])
• On Uniqueness:
  • “Those things that are unique that allow whatever that light is inside of you... That’s the thing that will make you rise to whatever level you can get to in the future...” – David ([22:12])
• On Tapering:
  • “Still do a long run a week out and then still do a workout race week – just make it light, make it controlled and go into that race with swag.” – David ([29:29])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Steph Curry Deep Dive – [00:32] to [09:38]
• Dog Races & European Race Stories (Comparisons, Big-Hearted Last Place) – [10:24] to [13:24]
• Lamar Jackson & Shey Peddy Sports Parables – [13:24] to [18:09]
• Embracing Uniqueness in Academia/Work (Listener Question LA) – [18:11] to [23:33]
• Tapering for Ultras (Listener Question KS) – [23:36] to [29:53]

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Tone & Closing

The episode is characterized by warmth, humor, and practical science, with a constant theme: whether in sport, science, or life, progress requires embracing discomfort, honoring your uniqueness, and approaching challenges with both humility and swag.

David & Megan: “We love you guys. Thank you everyone. Please sign, rate, review, whatever you do for podcasts. You’re the best.” ([29:54])

Transcript

[A]

Woohoo. Welcome to the Some Work All Play podcast. We are so happy to be with you today. Um, we are extra happy because four llamas just walked by. I swear they're playing a joke on us or something.

[B]

This is our weekly podcast, Menagerie. I don't think it's a joke. I think it's routine at this point.

[A]

A menagerie. Again, Two weeks of menagerie. We are on a roll here.

[B]

Well, what I was most impressed by was there was a two year old walking a llama or the llama was walking a two year old. I'm not sure they causal relationship in that structure, but I was like the llama is pretty well behaved to be walking this two year old.

[A]

I know that seems pretty dangerous.

[B]

I don't think I would attach Addy dog to a two year.

[A]

Yeah, neither would I. So this is episode 30, which is the Steph Curry episode.

[B]

Holy crap. I have been looking forward to this episode for a long time. I'm actually sitting here a little nervous. Like my heart rate is beating out of my chest because I'm like, Steph Curry, we have to do him justice.

[A]

Oh my. And he's super topical right now because last week a video came out of him sitting in the corner of a or standing in the corner of an NBA three point line. Really far, if you've ever stood back there and he hit 105 consecutive threes over the course of five minutes.

[B]

It was impressive. Well, also what I was impressed with was the rebounder was just cool as a member during that exchange. And I was like, there's a lot of pressure on that, that rebounder. What if he messed up? And then I was like, no, you know, if the rebounder messed up, Steph Curry would have no problem with that. It's just another day in the life.

[A]

I'm pretty sure you don't hit 105 threes in a row without also hitting like 50 threes in a row every single time you try. And it's remarkable to think about the amount of skill and practice and you know, history that goes into that type of performance. And I mean, I think it's also important as like cutting ourselves slack in everything we do. I mean there are people out there that can hit the like metaphorical 105 threes in a row from the corner and there are so much practice involved in that.

[B]

So don't judge in whatever field. Yeah, I feel like it's like, you know, we're seeing Step Curry as the top 00001% in shooting. And there will always be that person in whatever field you think about.

[A]

The best urologists, they've spent 20 years looking at buttholes. What do they look at?

[B]

Or. I was going to say podcasters. The top podcasters aren't talking about llamas and 2 year olds to start their podcasts.

[A]

That's true. They definitely have more detailed outlines too. But about Steph Curry is looking back in his life, at his life. So he grew up, he was very small in eighth and ninth grade, but he was still a good shooter. And one summer his dad going into his sophomore year was like, okay, I know you're a good shooter, but we need to change this form. It's not going to work at the higher levels because he was so small that he had to wind up and shoot from down low, from his shoulder, from a little lower. And he's like. His father was like, this isn't going to work if you want to shoot in college. Um, and I thought there was a great quote on there from Steph Curry. That was the most frustrating summer for me for a. And then this is from the article. For a period of months, the kid who'd always been a dead eye shooter was stripped of his greatest skill. I really couldn't shoot outside the paint for the, for like the first three weeks, Curry says. All summer when I was at camps, people were like, who are you? Why are you playing basketball? I was really that bad for a month and a half before I finally.

[B]

Figured it out when I saw in the article too. So Curry just took the entire, that entire summer and pretty much dedicated it to learning this one skill. Like, talk about, you know, as a kid too. It's like, I mean, as a kid, you're just so excited to play pickup. You're so excited to do all these different things. And here he was just honing in.

[A]

It must be so embarrassing and emasculating too, like that. You can't shoot outside the paint like that. You're not strong enough to do it until your body learns. So, you know, he went from being a dead eye shooter, as the thing said, to being probably the worst shooter you could possibly imagine. He couldn't get it to the hoop.

[B]

But it turned out it was fundamental to who he was as a player because now he's able to shoot on the way up as he jumps, as opposed to shooting with the classic way of shooting is shooting at the highest point of the jump. And as a result, he releases these shots that are lightning fast. And it all gets back to this moment with his dad where he really honed in these skills.

[A]

It takes him 0.3 seconds to get from catch to shoot, which is unheard of.

[B]

Faster than a blink of an eye maybe.

[A]

I don't know. I think so. Well, it depends how quickly you blink your eye.

[B]

I'm sure I'm a pretty fast eye blinker if you're not surprised.

[A]

And you know, he, he brings this all the way to today. So you know, we're going to talk a little bit more about his history. But this is also super relevant because he scored 62 points last night, which is unheard of in the NBA. The second oldest player ever to score over 60. And it was almost all through these lightning fast three point releases. And that was all honed his sophomore year of high school and he had to go back to zero to accomplish that.

[B]

What's funny, that was my first thought when I read the story and kind of knew the background of this as it was, was just the analogy to running forms. I feel like we often see these studies related to running form and gait analysis where they look at people and they study them over four or six weeks periods and they come to the conclusion that yeah, changing your gait probably isn't economical, it's not efficient. It may lead runners to be more injury prone, but they're not looking taking that long term. Steph Curry vision. Because like if you looked at Steph Curry in the four to six weeks as these basketball camps did, when he was going through the shooting, you'd have been like, no way. This guy shouldn't do this, never going to have a good career. But it was really that commitment over the long term.

[A]

And I mentioned any change feels like that like anytime you decide to make a concerted effort to alter something that you've always done. I mean everything from the way you experience relationships to physical things like shooting a basketball to, you know, running or anything. And so it's one of those moments where it's like you have to commit to changes that you want to make.

[B]

Yeah, there's always going to be that awkward growth period.

[A]

So even though Steph Curry came back and wasn't only a dead eye shooter, now he's a dead eye shooter with a lightning fast release. Andy became a high school star averaging 20 points a game. He got zero offers, zero offers from any Division 1 school, including his dad who was an NBA player, his alma mater didn't even look at Steph Curry said you might be able to walk on if you want.

[B]

Well, Steph Curry always Dreamed of going to unc. I mean, who doesn't? As a basketball player, Guitar heels are awesome. And I can't believe I'm saying that.

[A]

Wait, wait. We met at Duke and Duke and North Carolina are the biggest rivals in sports.

[B]

I can't help it. So Roy Williams said about Steph Curry, after the fact, he was like, I had no idea who Steph Curry was in the recruiting process. And he was like. And my first thought when I saw him play in the college and college leagues was, that guy is really small.

[A]

Yeah. And Steph Curry grew up just down the street from you. And I mean, not that far from unc within, you know, a couple hours drive and it gets to like this brilliance was right there. And the only reason Steph Curry ended up going to Davidson, a school that I particularly love, now that I think about it, given the name, I didn't even realize that the only reason he went there is because the coach's son, the Davidson coach's son, played Little league with Curry when he was 10 years old. And in the 10 year old curry, he saw the same fire that would lead to this athlete that could shoot all these threes. And in Steph Curry's first game as a freshman at Davidson, he turned the ball over nine times in the first half, which is atrocious, as bad as it possibly gets. And the coach was quoted as saying, maybe I made a mistake, maybe I shouldn't be playing this guy. Curry comes out in the second half, starts nailing threes. And then the rest of his story at Davidson is the thing of lore.

[B]

And what do you. Davidson had a great, I mean, Davidson went 20. No. 1 conference play in 2008. I had to look up what conference Davidson was in. Apparently they're in the Southern Conference. They advanced the Elite Eight. They lost to Kansas, who went on winning that year. And Curry just like lit up the NCAA from Davidson.

[A]

The Southern Conference very notorious, notoriously has woofered, which I always love. I feel like that's the school of Dogwood. Love woofered.

[B]

Georgia Southern.

[A]

I realized that was, yeah, topical with the elections coming up. But, you know, I remember when he was playing in college, it was always appointment viewing because he took that same mindset of like, look, I'm going to shoot. And he brought it to, to a court where he was the only focus. And you know, it was, it was a thing of beauty. But even after that, he had doubts going into the NBA or he was doubted going into the NBA. Everyone said he was too small and too slight and he would get injured all the time, and sure enough, he got injured all the time. His first few years were marred by constant injuries, especially of his ankles.

[B]

And they still are, to be honest.

[A]

And people were questioning whether he'd ever be able to, you know, become anything, like, special if the. If the warriors wasted a draft pick on this player, spoiler alert. They did not. He's become like someone that has not just changed the warriors and won a lot of championships. He's absolutely revolutionized the game of basketball 10 years ago. How basketball looked is totally different than it looks right now. And a lot of that can be traced back to this one player, this night, this sophomore in high school, deciding to change his form and take that risk and get vulnerable.

[B]

And what I love about Curry, too, is he's just the epitome of being a calm, cool, and collective basketball player. And who knows? You know, I can't go ask Steph Curry. I would love to and know where that came from.

[A]

Steph Curry can be on the podcast if you want.

[B]

He'd be my. Be my. Another selected dinner guest if I could have one for that classic podcast question. But I feel like he's earned that swag through decades of hard work, and I think that's something that's just so cool to me is to thinking about, like, where that comes from. Also, he's earned a lot of swag in mouth guard chewing. I feel like he must have the strongest TMJ in NBA history. He literally spends so much of his time on court chewing his mouth guard, but again, he's complicated.

[A]

I'm assuming TMJ has something to do with the jaw.

[B]

Oh, temporomandibular junction.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That's amazing that you pulled that out. Yeah. And I mean, actually, that's an interesting point that you made. Whether his swag comes from the practice or it feeds back in a slightly different way. Because, like, when I watch Steph Curry, I mean, the reason we use him as the example of shooting your shot is because he just shoots every shot and is like, I am the baddest motherfucker in this place. Like, you know, he's thinking that even if he would never say anything like that. And what I think so cool about that is, like, that can be after he's missed 10 in a row or 20 in a row or had a terrible start to the NBA season like he has this year, and, you know, I think he's not making those shots without the swag to begin with, and then it feeds back in on itself.

[B]

So I love this causal relationship analysis of swag. Yeah, this is awesome. But I also think too it could come from the fact that, I mean he really grew up in this culture of excellence. Like you talk about his dad. His dad was a source of belief for a long time. His brother Seth, an awesome NBA player. His mother was known as this like incredible person. There's actually these quotes from fans who are like, we always wanted to sit next to the Curry's because they're so motivating people out there. And when you see Curry play, he always acknowledges his family in the stand. So I think that's another really cool component of this and perhaps on the causal mechanism of swag.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like on the shoot your shot swag thing, it's like that's the big takeaway from Steph Curry is go down the court and take your shots and know they're going in even when you've missed ten in a row. Um, I think that's where fun happens. That's also where like the magic happens of being able to do thing the types of things that Steph Curry's done. Um, awesome. So transition time to something that was on the background as we were watching SportsCenter one day. So SportsCenter turned over and you know, sometimes on ESPN weird things come on, especially on Sundays. And all of a sudden I woke up and. And a basset hound is just jowling its way across the screen going faster than a basset hound has any excuse to go. And what was it? It was dog racing. The dog hundred meter dash. I was thinking Steph Curry is kind of like a terrier.

[B]

That's a great analogy. I love that.

[A]

Yeah. But it's kind of relevant too to all of us because the way they conducted these competitions.

[B]

Yeah, the way they conducted the competitions was they had the fastest dog category, which this year actually went to an all American dog, which was some mix of a greyhound and a deerhound, which is something I have heard.

[A]

I love that All American dog is like the mutt designation. That's a perfect name.

[B]

Yeah, it is a great name. And then the other way that they do it is they compare the dog's breed, the dog's, the dog's time to the average of the breed itself. And I love that because I feel like there's a lot of connections there in running where like, you know, I. We're not going to have like women comparing themselves to men in terms of time or like, you know, a 60 year old comparing themselves to a 20 year old in terms of time. It's like, really thinking about, like, you know, what's within your, like, your designation.

[A]

Yeah. And the dogs are not comparing themselves to themselves at all. Like, the dogs have no clue how fast they went. I mean, the dogs are running for the joy of it, Right. And I think there was actually one moment where a dog was running. I forget what breed it was. It wasn't one of the fast breeds. It's running its little, little head off as fast as it possibly can. And I guess someone said its name or maybe there was like someone opening up a can of tuna fish or something, and all of a sudden it just looks sideways and starts, like, borking a little bit as it's running down the screen.

[B]

It definitely lost a solid two seconds in that. In that moment. What I think is funny about this too is I've definitely had those moments during races. Like, I think in European racing, I am prone to be that dog that's just like, so staring off, like, boring. Because in Europe they yell, die, die, die. As you're racing. And I always look up like, huh.

[A]

We did the mountain running championships in 2014, which was in Italy. I still don't know what it means to this day. All I know is that when I was absolutely suffering on a climb, I. People were just screaming in my face as loud as they could, die, die, die. And I did. So I happily obliged.

[B]

Well, the other distracting thing about European shore racing is they often have interesting foods stations. I remember once being in kind of a rough race in Europe, and they were just serving chocolate croissants at aid stations. And I was like, yeah, sure, this is the only thing that's going to turn my race off.

[A]

We never told. I don't think we ever told this story. So in 2017, I was going into this race, like, ready to crush it. It was one of the world championship races. Um, I had the worst day of my life. Um, I'm sitting in. In the last aid station with, like six miles to go, which felt like an impossible thing. I was just ready to dnf. Um, and Megan was having a rough race as well. Comes up after I'd been in the aid station for a while. Um, and what happens? She sees me in the aid station. Without even taking a moment to process it, she grabs a handful of these chocolate croissants, points at me and says, you're coming with me. And then she proceeded to walk the rest of it with me.

[B]

No, actually, the way it went was, is you were cramping really bad. So I'd be like, we're gonna jog 200 meters. And then you'd cramp and then I'd feed you croissants, and then we'd walk and then be like, okay, we're jog 200 meters again and we finally got to the finish.

[A]

So we ran walk to the finish. I might have gotten the DFL award at that race, which is actually kind of relevant to the dog. The dog competition because they had a. A dead effing last award for that. What breed was.

[B]

It was a Pekingese, okay. Called Buster.

[A]

Those are like the little lap.

[B]

Like, it was very cute. I feel like the race photo of this Pekingese would have been on point, but they actually described the DFL award as the slowest dog with the biggest heart, which I think is a beautiful way to describe that award.

[A]

I love that. So in all we do, let's strive not to compare and to have really big Pekingese hearts and eat chocolate croissants. So finally, on the. On the theme of sports stories, I really briefly wanted to highlight two great stories that Megan and I have been talking about for, you know, months now. The first is the Great Lamar Jackson cramping mystery of 2020. So Lamar Jackson, quarterback for the Baltimore Ravens, MVP last year, he started having cramps in the third or fourth quarter of a game. And, you know, they have a tent right there that they treat people with cramps. And Lamar didn't go to the tent? No, Lamar went to the. The locker room and there's this great video of him running, running with really stiff legs to the locker room and then coming out with, like, swag. So the Internet decided, no, he wasn't cramping. Lamar Jackson just really had to poop.

[B]

Well, it's funny because I was. I was watching this, I was like, I have seen this play out before, and there are definitely videos of me just, like, high chair off the trail into a forest. And that was Lamar Jackson, except he had a much better forest than the classic Ultra Running Fair.

[A]

So he comes back into the game and lights it on fire and scores all these touchdowns after his cramping incident. So to me, this is one of the coolest stories ever because it has so many parallels to our running journeys. Lamar just had some, had some weight he needed to drop, whatever that was, and he comes back in and dominates.

[B]

Well, there are some great articles on this topic, too. So one of my favorite article titles of all time is did Lamar Jackson Run off the Field to Poop? Then the subtitle Is everybody poops. That is a Ballin subtitle. So kudos to.

[A]

I'm just really happy to read investigative journalism that isn't about politics at this point or, like, the downfall of society. I need more Lamar Jackson pooping stories.

[B]

Well, because Lamar Jackson has been on our podcast outline for a few weeks now. Somehow we're just getting into it now. And all you had with Lamar Jackson on the outline was poop and scoot.

[A]

Motivated by Addie Dog, who will poop and then sprint away from wherever she poops as fast as you've ever seen. Which I think another good lesson for us all. All right, so the last story is on Shea Petty. Uh, and this is a story I missed, so I thought people might be. Might help people out in their own lives. So Shea Petty became a rookie with the Washington mystics of the WNBA at age 30. She found that she was offered this spot while she was on the plane to Latvia to play in whatever Latvian league there would be.

[B]

Okay, so I know some of the names of the European teams are. I haven't, like, I have no idea. There's apparently the Flying Foxes from Austria as a basketball team. I don't know if that's a translation or, like, if that's like, pure what it is, but it's like, I love.

[A]

That I need a fine fox's shirt. So she hits the ground in Latvia, comes straight back, starts to play for the mystics. At 30, you almost never hear that type of story. So she plays for the Mystics. It's going great. Eventually, she is cut by the Mystics, but she comes back on for the Washington Mystics to be a video editor for them. So she's like, she loves the game so much, she's going to dedicate herself. She's just going to analyze their video.

[B]

What I love about her, too. So she's 5 foot 7, very similar to Steph Curry, like, scrappy, small player. But she talks a lot about, like, the love, hate relationship that she's had with basketball. She, like, she truly loves basketball. But she's been, as you've talked about it, she's been through a lot. And she talks about, like, the patience and resilience that she had getting through those periods of hate just to know that love might be around the other corner.

[A]

I got that. And so, you know, that could be an end of the story right there. This. She finally gets the wnba, she becomes a video editor. She loves the game, she wins, coach, whatever. But that is not where the story ends. She ends up being signed by the Phoenix Mercury, the WNBA team in Phoenix. And with the Mercury, she blossoms at age 30, and she's playing. And who do they face in the WNBA playoffs but the Washington Mystics. So the game has just a few seconds left. A play is drawn up for the Phoenix Mercury Star. The play starts to unfold, and the Mystics leave Shea Petty uncovered in the corner. So the play breaks down. Ball gets to shape. Hetty, she drains the game, winning three, knocks her old team out and celebrates. Celebrates. The whole journey goes crazy. And I thought that was one of the best sports stories of the year.

[B]

I love this. I also love this as a sports story, too, in 2020, because one of the reasons that Shea Petty got that opportunity to take that shot is because of COVID The Mystics had some players out because of COVID Like, there's all these different changes, and I feel like there's so many great examples of COVID just allowing people, like, allowing, you know, people to have some luck for whatever reason it may be. And I feel like there's not many stories related to that, but there are some.

[A]

Well, and it gets back to what they say about luck, that, you know, whether it's luck of COVID or whatever, there's always these little opportunities that might be there, and you never know when you're letting them pass by. I think what's so cool about Shea Petty is she was waiting for one on that plane to freaking Latvia, and then she was waiting for one in the corner three, you know, and she was willing to shoot that shot when, like, I don't know, you know, God, the things that she must have gone through to get to that point. To me, it's like, that's what I call on. I don't call on. I mean, Steph Curry is amazing, and I, you know, but he is also a transcendent talent. Shea Petty is the person that I want to channel in podcasting and running and everything else, too.

[B]

She's got some hustle and grit. Awesome.

[A]

You want to get to the topic?

[B]

Let's do it. So this topic is from la. I love it. It's on embracing your talent. The question is, I'm having one of those days where I feel so underqualified for PhD work. Just don't know enough. And the skills I do have, such as facilitation, emotional intelligence, teaching, physical grit, they aren't rewarded in my it's a low self esteem day. Does Megan ever feel this way in her PhD program? If so, how does she deal with that? Maybe you too, David. Reflecting on law school stuff or how coaching feels. Just feeling like I'm in the wrong space for what I'm doing, and that's taking a toll on me. And this is from la.

[A]

That is such a beautiful question. And I think everyone feels that in some way of what they're doing. It's almost like we're one of the. We're the Pekingese that's in the dog race. And then we see the greyhound and we're like, wait, shouldn't I be the greyhound? And I think it's especially pertinent. It's relevant in PhD programs, it seems.

[B]

And I'm feeling it right now. So right now I have prelim exams coming up for my PhD actually. Side note, I always want to call it prelims. For some reason, I'm feeling like I need some, like, prelims with my prelim. I don't know, I'm taking, like, a southern twist to these. I know I like it, but I'm totally feeling that way because I'm in this epidemiology program. There's a lot of complicated stats coding, there's a lot of math, and it's, you know, right now I'm doing like, 15 different things in life. And that's not my main investment in terms of, like, learning that stats coding, doing all this and just feeling a little overwhelmed and like, can totally identify with LA on this topic.

[A]

Yeah. And you have to me, you know, this is going to be buttering your bread a little. You have the most versatile intellect I've ever been around. You're brilliant in so many different directions. But I don't know if coding is, like, would have been at the top of your list of.

[B]

For sure not.

[A]

It's not why you're doing epidemiology or whatever, but it's an essential part of that process. And the question is, how do you, like, engage with the essential parts of the process without compromising who you are and trying to play a game that you have no business playing?

[B]

And I think what I've learned too, is that there's certain points in epidemiology or my PhD program that I just have to get through. And those points don't have to be A's. And then there's other points that I love and that kind of contribute to my work and the things that I'm thinking about. And those are the points that I can, like, embrace, but also too, that sometimes, like, the people, I feel sometimes overwhelmed when I go to classes. And like, classmates know a lot more than Me or teachers may know a lot more than me. And I feel like I always have to remember too, that sometimes people are devoting like their whole life work to this one topic.

[A]

They're Steph Curry hitting this threes. And, you know, we talk all the time about being uniquely you. The whole point of being uniquely you is that your skill sets don't overlap with other people. And, you know, I think the hardest part for me and my intellectual growth is embracing those parts of me that are different, even if those parts of me that are different don't look like I would expect, don't wear the uniform. You know, that was definitely in law school. And, you know, the first semester I came in and was like, oh my gosh, this is different than anything I've ever experienced. I need to be those people that, you know, they're called gunners in law school, you know, that do the reading in this way and study this way. And what I learned after that first semester is actually don't play that game. And that's how you excel and accomplish all your dreams. And then the same thing with coaching. Like, you know, we present as coaches, hopefully as like friends and enthusiastic and all this, rather than like the traditional principle with a whistle type feeling about coaches. But that's because that's who we are. We're not saying other coaches need to be that. It's just like that's what allows our light to shine.

[B]

And I think there's some initial challenges in that process of embracing what makes you different. It's almost like Steph Curry, like, he was different in how he was shooting his threes, and that made that made for a difficult growing process for him. But I feel like it's. I mean, it's really about like carving out these new areas of a field that may not even exist yet, or that you may not even know about. And really just listening to, finding that joy along the way. What I think that's helpful for me is thinking about, like, the long term as opposed to the short term. So for me, I've often thought about, like, what do I want to do after this PhD? And I definitely don't want to say in academia, I know that for sure. But I think for me, epidemiology is more of a way of thinking. It's more about learning, like, critical analysis of science, scientific writing, all of these things, as opposed to these, like, nitty gritty details on like, causal inference or stats coding or some of these other things. I will probably never use those again in my life. I've Been making directed acyclic graphs which are these like really fancy graphs, crafts. And like, I'm probably only going to use that for cooking.

[A]

I have no idea what that is. Just like the tmj.

[B]

And I think like the ability for me to like think long term about like the practicality of that has really helped me too. And being like, you know, what am I going to get from my like my long term understanding and that's what's most important.

[A]

Yeah. And so the question I was thinking about here is what makes you you, you know, and then what lets your light shine? And I tell people this whenever they're doing like job interviews or whatever they think about running or coaching or law or anything. It's like, like those things that are unique that allow whatever that light is inside of you. That doesn't mean like you're, you're like joy or anything at all. It just means that baseline thing that sets you apart. That's the thing that will make you rise to whatever level you can get to in the future, whether it's epidemiology or coaching or anything else. So don't worry. I would say if something doesn't feel like it's for you, find the parts of it that are for you and go all freaking out in those things and then you're going to become. Exactly. Takes everything you didn't even know you wanted to be.

[B]

And I love, I love, I love it. And I think the last point on that topic too is it doesn't have to be binary. It doesn't have to be black and white. Like, even though this particular PhD program may not feel like it's for you, there can be parts of the program that are for you. Like, it doesn't always have to be black or white. And sometimes it is. Sometimes you need to know when to like, you know, make a full career serve or whatever it may be. But I think that that sentiment has really helped me a lot.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, touching on the imposter syndrome thing, which this question was, was specifically not. They were trying to say like, you know, we acknowledge our own skills. It's that you are freaking awesome. Um, and you know, the, the point of your light shining is that if you try to be something you're not, then that awesomeness will never get to show itself. Um, so let the awesomeness shine. You want to get to the next topic?

[B]

I do it. So 23 minutes in and we're talking about running. This is awesome. Really.

[A]

Stepping out.

[B]

This topic is from ks. The question is on tapering, I'm currently stumped for how to taper for my upcoming 50k first Ultra K. What up? It's on January 2nd and wondering when I should start decreasing my mileage. Beforehand this past week I had a 16 mile long run. Then this coming weekend I'll do a 20 mile long run. Should I add a third long run the following weekend for even further of a long run or start to pull back? Also chaos. Sorry David, this was, this was sensitive, time sensitive material. We should prioritize this a little bit.

[A]

I try to respond to every question substantively as well. When they're emailed.

[B]

Oh God. Okay. Over email I was like, chaos. I hope your race went well. We're just talking about this now.

[A]

Maybe they meant January 2, 2022. So I briefly wanted to frame this as where tapers are a little bit different difference. So in the swimming world, tapers make a massive difference on performance. You cannot perform at the top level without a pretty steep and substantial taper. So why is that? Well, top swimmers have these massive chronic stress loads from huge training and huge intensity since it's non weight bearing. Um, mean there's a lot of articles, including one in Frontiers of physiology from 2019 on swimming training since that's not my area of expertise. Meanwhile, running training is substantially different. The chronic stress is much less, the hours are much less, the endocrine and nervous system, they're spared substantially compared to something like swimming or triathlon or anything. But that doesn't mean there's not stress. Um, there's still chronic stress in the system that needs to recover during a taper.

[B]

I think the other thing about tapering and runners is that every runner is so individual on this topic. And I think a lot of that too is related to what mileage runners are actually doing. So like if you look at elite professional road marathoning at the top level, many of those runners are running 120 miles a week. So if you think about a 25% or 50% taper, that's down to 90 miles a week or 60 miles a week. I'm doing the math right the top of my head. Whereas if someone's running a 30 mile week and doing a, you know, at 25% or 50% taper, that's down to 10 or 15 miles a week.

[A]

And they might, they might detrain even a little bit even and you, then you start to break it down into even more hyper individuality things like muscle fiber distribution where, you know, a fast twitch athlete might need a little bit longer taper. Than a slow twitch athlete. Slow twitch athlete might respond really badly to a lawn taper. And understanding that individualization is important. And then it also gets into like neuromuscular factors become extremely important. One, one thing you may have heard of is the central governor that the same effort, the same output level can feel very different to per depending on the like the neural context of that. It's complicated. There's a critical Review in the 2006, in 2006 in the British Journal of Sports Medicine that gets into some of the problems. But essentially the takeaway is that how your brain interprets the effort also determines how the output comes out of that effort.

[B]

And what does that mean? So I think for me, what I do is for athletes who are racing within 10 to 14 days, I often give some intensity during that period of time. If athletes are training for longer ultras, say like 50 miles plus, I don't give strides during that period of time because I think it's better to work like the aerobic system via tempo. So often I will give athletes like four to five days out from race day, like 10, anywhere from like a 10 to 20 minute tempo leading into race day. And I find that's great for kind of like stoking that central governor for keeping like keeping these reinforcements going.

[A]

Yeah. And so that workout four or five days out, still long run the week before, just not that long. You cut down the volume of it and then maybe even a really hard workout 10 days out that can really stoke these symptoms or these, these things and get the final big adaptation processes going. Um, the next big part of this is muscle tension, which has been talked a lot by, about by coach Steve Magnus. You can think of it like a rubber band that you don't want to let the rubber band get too loose or it won't rebound as much, or you don't want to have it be too tight and muscle tension be too high and it won't perform as well either. So that's why where the little bit of speed comes in in the last 10 days, like you don't want to shut down, like you don't want to take more rest days than normal, for example, you want to keep it about similar to what you usually too.

[B]

An interesting anecdote on this topic is I've actually had athletes avoiding taking NSAIDs or things like ibuprofen the week of. The week of a race. Um, one because for athletes doing longer races it can have negative effects on kidney function, it can cause kidney damage, but also because my theory too is I've seen some athletes who take NSAIDs leading into a race and having some negative performances. And I think that may actually be related to NSAIDs impact on muscle tension or blood volume having negative impacts on those. Um, so that's also something helpful to think about.

[A]

I would love to have a better study on that because there really isn't that much. But I've seen the same thing thing, you know, after you pointed out and to be aware of it. Um, and then also thinking about maybe some of your background with muscle fiber distribution are fast twitch athletes will generally do a little bit lower intensity athletes than slow twitch athletes like Hayden Hawks might do a little bit more intensity than Matt Daniels leading into it a race. Um, then the final.

[B]

Is that because Matt Daniels is more.

[A]

Oh yeah, Matt Daniels a little bit more fast twitch. So backs off the intensity a little bit. Um, and really hones in the aerobic system. The final big thing is psychological factors. Brain chemistry matters for performance. It is not just in your head, it is in how the body interprets efforts. So keep your schedule, keep your general approach. Don't change up your and your schedule.

[B]

In terms of like life schedule, not in terms of don't be going out and doing the same 10 mile run.

[A]

Oh exactly, yeah, yeah, you're running the, you're running similarly just less and less intense usually.

[B]

So that that brings up an interesting point is sometimes I do have athletes who are resistant to tapering and I think like if you do feel a resistance to tapering, resistance to tapering and sometimes it's normal. Like sometimes I dread taper. Like I love running, it's really fun to run. But think about like why that's there. Is that a self defense mechanism? Like sometimes I think for athletes like not tapering can be a built built in excuse and certainly like you know if you're doing like B or C races like you don't always have to do a complete taper but I think it really is important to focus on that taper and to make it a key point for a races like don't shoot, don't sell yourself short in the process.

[A]

So you know when you're thinking about your taper I would say if you're under heavy chronic stress stress you can start reducing total load about 2.5 weeks out. If you're under less stress about 2 weeks out, chop it by like 15% or 30%. If you're a little bit lower stress up to 50%. If you're higher stress, still do a really hard workout 10 days out I think you can do and even like a race simulation at shorter distances or hard hill repeats or something like that. Still do a wrong long run a week out and then still do a workout race week. Just make it light, make it controlled and go into that race with swag. With that Steph Curry swag come down the line knowing it's going to go in even when it hasn't gone in 10 times before.

[B]

I love that. And also do a good focus on fueling hydration, sleep, all of these good things.

[A]

Yeah I think maybe self love is the most important thing like you don't want training. That sounds like I'm talking about masturbation. I am not though. Do whatever you want to. There's no good studies on that. What I mean is like give yourself the love each day with less stress like understanding your body and going in with swag.

[B]

Woohoo. I cosign that.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

We love you guys. Thank you everyone. Please sign rate review whatever you do for podcasts you're the best.