Transcript

A (0:01)

Welcome to the Some Work All Play podcast. We are so happy with you today.

B (0:04)

Happy Tuesday.

A (0:05)

It's Tuesday, and we're bringing out the

B (0:06)

magic wand on this Tuesday.

A (0:08)

The magic wand.

B (0:09)

That's quite a way to start a podcast.

A (0:11)

Whoa, Megan.

B (0:14)

In many ways. Okay, do you know what I'm talking about?

A (0:18)

I think I do. Which is the home shockwave machine that I bought.

B (0:22)

Yeah. So about a week ago, I came downstairs, and this was early morning. It was 5am Probably 5am and you're like, megan, I have something to tell you. And I'm just like, oh, no. You're like, I bought a home shockwave machine on Amazon. And I was like, bro, what are you doing?

A (0:38)

That's kind of how, you know, you hit a low point. So they aren't that expensive on Amazon. The question is, do they work? Because at this price, it would be like buying a car for 50 bucks.

B (0:47)

I mean, legitimately, it's like 80 times cheaper than what they use in the.

A (0:53)

This is because I can't make the time to get these appointments. So I just haven't been doing shockwave. And I need to do it for my heel, which regressed a couple of weeks ago, just randomly, when I. It was 100%. So, Megan, I got desperate at 4:45am and I was like, okay, I'm gonna wait till Megan comes down. This is a big purchase. We always talk about big purchases. So I need your advice on this. And then it just sat there in one of my tabs, haunting me just like Edward Edgar Allen Poe, like a heartbeat. And I'm like, I gotta go for it before she wakes up, because she's gonna talk me out of this, isn't she?

B (1:23)

I gotta click that button. I would have talked you out of it.

A (1:25)

Yeah, you would've.

B (1:26)

And we wouldn't have had this story on the podcast.

A (1:27)

Summary

Some Work, All Play – Episode 308 Summary

Sub-2 Hour Marathon Fueling, The High Carb Plus Bicarb Era, Strides v. Plyometrics Study, Supershoe Evolution, and Iron Theories!

Hosts: David Roche and Megan Roche, M.D. Date: April 28, 2026

Episode Overview

In this lively, science-packed episode, David and Megan Roche explore the new frontier of performance: fueling, shoes, and innovative training approaches and supplements. With their characteristic enthusiasm and banter, they dive into remote healing gadgets, skepticism versus hope in elite sport, the latest studies on carb and bicarb fueling for marathons, the next generation of supershoes, strides vs. plyometrics, and iron supplementation experiments. The episode is full of relatable discussions about balancing athletic pursuits with family and work, and closes with listener affirmations and gear chat.

Key Topics and Discussion Points

1. Home Shockwave Therapy, Personal Lubricants & DIY Dilemmas

[00:06–05:34]

David's impulse Amazon purchase of a (sketchy) home shockwave therapy wand to self-treat a lingering heel injury, admitting to a 4:45 AM decision to avoid Megan's veto.
Creative problem-solving: substituting store-brand KY personal lubricant for ultrasound gel, provoking an awkward encounter with their favorite grocery clerk.
- Memorable moment: “You should’ve walked into the store and bought, like, some Fritos, some personal lubricant, and a banana. That would be perfect.” – David [04:18]
Concludes: Don’t try this at home; there’s a 5% chance at-home weird experiments become gospel, but mostly, they just become podcast stories.
Discussion of cycling-induced saddle sores and chafing, and the not-actually-“personal lubrication machine.”

2. World Records at the London Marathon: Sub-2 Hour Breakthrough

[05:45–16:41]

Recap of Sebastian Sawe’s historic 1:59:30 marathon (4:33 per mile), discussing the physiological and technological optimization at play.
Referencing Alan Joyner’s 1991 "ultimate limit" prediction of 1:57:30, set before modern shoe tech.
- “You are seeing the optimization of human physiology pushed almost to the very limit.” – David [11:28]
Discussion on the legitimacy and transparency of doping controls:
- Adidas paid for extra AIU testing, making breakthrough more credible, but full transparency (public release of test results) could backfire due to internet negativity.
- “If there’s anybody you’re going to trust, it has to be this guy.” – David [13:06]
- “Testing isn’t always just the pure answer.” – Megan [13:22]

3. Game Theory & Human Nature in Elite Sport (and Zwift Cheating)

[14:47–19:39]

Introduces a viral hypothetical: If survival depends on a private vote (red button: self-survival, blue: >50% for group survival), which do you choose? Both choose red, citing lack of trust in collective coordination.
“What are athletes actually doing in the, quote, unquote, private vote? ... That’s why we always try to be no secrets…” – David [16:41]
Parallels to subtle, accepted cheating in Zwift, and distinction between public and private ethical choices.

4. Sub-2 Fueling Case Studies: The High-Carb and Bicarb Era

[19:39–27:48]

Deep dive on elite fuel strategies:
- Sebastian Sawe took 115 g/hr carbs during race, plus ~12g pre-start; real total ~127g/hr. Similarly high numbers for second and third place, regardless of brand.
- All used sodium bicarbonate (“bicarb”), with Sawe taking a lower dose than bodyweight would predict.
- “So, obviously, in the marathon it works ... but it also helps in ultras. I promise... it is such a performance benefit.” – David [21:13]
Women’s-only record and drafting discussion: drafting at marathon pace offers a huge performance benefit (up to 3–4%, more than some shoes).

5. Supershoe Evolution: Weight, Materials, and Margins

[22:37–27:48]

New Adidas Adizero Pro Evo 3 is only 97g (3.9oz), about a third the weight of classic racing flats.
- “When actual performance is on the line, weight is being optimized.” – David [24:33]
Shoes designed for single-use at the highest level; debate about whether advancements are peaking or ongoing.
Industry race to define "luxury brand" status for astronomical pricing.

6. Carb Revolution for All: Inclusion, Gender Gaps, and Real-World Impact

[27:48–44:15]

Surging sub-3 performances at major marathons attributed to more widespread high-carb adoption.
Recap of a new case study of elite female athlete fueling: 120 g/hr carb increased carb oxidation and lowered RPE vs. 60 g/hr.
Sex gap in fueling, slower adoption for women on the roads/high-level; discussion of physiologic pitfalls in ultra distance—ultras still lag on full high-carb adoption.
- “If someone comes along that is similarly talented and uses carbs, they’ll have the advantage.” – David [42:23]
Listener anecdotes: massive PRs and improved performance after adopting high-carb and bicarb regimens.
Notable moment: “If you’re out there—carbs are for everybody. You don’t need to be pushing 1:20, but it’s just driving physiology forward in crazy ways.” – David [29:33]

7. Strides Versus Plyometrics: Study Says... Strides Rule

[48:39–56:16]

Pre-print study compares ground reaction force and mechanical outputs of sprints/strides (90% max) versus classic plyometric routines.
- No significant difference between max and submax sprints.
- Strides (submax sprints) yield as much or more mechanical stimulus than plyometrics, with less injury risk.
- “That is a strong sentence... Submax and maximal sprinting, when programmed and performed correctly, can also be considered as a very high quality, fast plyometric stimuli.” – Megan [55:07]
- “If you want to optimize, skip the plyometrics—do your strides.” – David [56:16]
- Hill strides suggested for long-term adaptation, bone density.

8. Iron Dosing, Supplements, and David’s Experimentation Corner

[86:05–91:26]

Observations from athletes with chronically low hemoglobin:
- Creatine as an adjunct for increased hemoglobin in certain populations (though Megan remains skeptical).
- Aswagandha (Pure Sport KSM-66) and multi-micronutrient approaches (Vit A, copper, boron) as possible but unproven hemoglobin boosters.
- Emphasis on evidence and caution: “Don’t cosign; desperation situations only.”
Debate over daily versus every-other-day iron dosing: Megan prefers daily in practice, noting the danger of Hepcidin-driven confusion.

9. Gear, Economics, and Running’s Luxury Brand Boom

[62:44–70:23]

Shoutout: Women’s Gear Index for authentic women’s gear reviews, highlighting gender disparity in gear testing and studies (“it is a critical gap”).
Debate about Satisfy Running’s eye-watering $320 tie-dye t-shirts, the bandwagon of running “luxury” goods, and the reality of margins versus value for consumers.
- “Aura requires labor. It’s a thousand percent true.” – David [66:09]
- “We’re not luxury brand people.” – Megan [66:31]
Transparency about their own coaching pricing philosophy, and the broader impact of brands and sponsorships on consumer choices—even for “industry insiders.”

10. Family Balance, Identity, and the Laugh Index

[71:08–76:46]

Listener writes about balancing athletic ambition with family, work, and personal identity.
David and Megan honestly discuss the ongoing negotiation of showing up for family vs. athletic pursuits after kids.
- “How can I show up as the thing I want to be with the time I have, rather than lamenting the time you don’t?” – David [73:33]
Megan recommends reframing life’s achievement narratives and shifting toward appreciating family moments.
Ultimately: focus on maximizing laughter as a metric of success amid daily chaos.

11. Listener Corner: Affirmation Tuesdays

[93:23–94:57]

A listener shares that their weekly “Happy Tuesday” podcast greeting inspired them and their partner to start Affirmation Tuesdays: writing each other weekly notes of affirmation.
- “Maybe the best test of all is just the laugh test. How much you laugh in each day.” – David [76:46]
David and Megan challenge each other (and listeners) to add this tradition at home.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

“If there’s anybody you’re going to trust, it has to be this guy. Because last year Adidas ponied up $50,000 to have the AIU test him more often than everybody else.”
— David [13:06]

“This actually gave me hope. 1:59:30 off of fueling and bicarb...and really fast shoes.”
— Megan [19:39]

“Bicarb is something that you’re seeing at the top end of almost all these marathons now. Studies find sodium bicarbonate helps on events one hour and below so far. ... But oh my god, it works.”
— David [21:13]

"A single submaximal sprint session...is therefore equivalent in the number of lower limb impacts to a session with 10 sets of 4 to 5 drop jumps."
— [55:45] (Study paraphrase)

"We’re not luxury brand people."
— Megan [66:31]

"How can I show up as the thing I want to be with the time I have, rather than lamenting the time you don’t?"
— David [73:33]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:06 – 05:34: Shockwave machine & DIY injury humor
05:45 – 16:41: London Marathon records, doping discussion, game theory tangent
19:39 – 27:48: Sub-2 fueling, bicarb case studies, shoe evolution
27:48 – 44:15: Carb revolution, sex & gender disparities, listener fueling stories
48:39 – 56:16: Strides vs. Plyometrics study, application to real-world training
62:44 – 70:23: Women’s Gear Index, Satisfy Running, luxury brand economics
71:08 – 76:46: Listener Q&A—athletic drive vs. family balance
93:23 – 94:57: Affirmation Tuesday & partner traditions

Tone, Style, and Takeaways

Style: Breezy, candid, playful—scientific rigor mixed with vulnerable storytelling
David’s and Megan’s dynamic includes playful ribbing (“Blue in the streets, red in the sheets!” [35:59]) and frequent food, parenting, and pop culture asides (Creed lyrics, ChatGPT therapy, etc).
Main Takeaway: Elite performance is advancing through the interplay of training, fueling, tech, and psychology—with many lessons and accessible strategies for every runner. Yet, the pursuit of excellence has to be balanced with the realities of life and family, and levity (and affirmation) are essential for the long run.

Further Listening/Reading

For the research-minded: Check out the referenced Science and Sport carb studies, and search for more on sodium bicarbonate and endurance performance.
For practical training: Dig into the strides vs. plyometrics debate—4–6 strides, 1–3x/week, can be a "power stimulus" on par with plyometrics.
For inspiration: Consider starting your own family or partner affirmation ritual—maybe on Tuesday!

Final Encouragement

“Laugh more. Love more. Carbs and bicarb for all. And don’t try Shockwave therapy at home (unless you need a podcast opener story).”

wavePod

308. Sub-2 Hour Marathon Fueling, The High Carb Plus Bicarb Era, Strides v. Plyometrics Study, Supershoe Evolution, and Iron Theories!