We gotta be able to handle hearing people talk about us, even when it's triggering and hard, because it can ultimately show us where the work is. And maybe you can be an expert on soething without having it yourself (like ADHD) but perhaps it requires a sense of curiosity, empathy, or some kind of introspection that recpognizes your lane, your scope, and your own biases? From anthropology and sociology to X-Men and who is Magneto and Charles Xavier, David and Isabelle meander through what it means to be an ally and also set up some solid recent hyperfixations.
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We gotta tolerate hearing people talking about what they think about us, including people who have lots of degrees and expertise, and also know that each person doesn’t have the answers. Maybe it has to do with conversations that people have about us without us ADHDers? Then again there are journalists, who don’t have expertise but who can report on the data they get. David names that there are good and bad journalists, and there is critical thinking. How much about people’s ADHD ‘expertise’ includes interpersonal work and understanding about attachment, relationships, your own identity. Like, if you’re an expert on ADHD and you’re not friends with people who have ADHD outside of your work (if you yourself don’t have it)—something to look at? David names that as therapists, we have this debate about multicultural approaches—do you need to have a white therapist to work with white clients, a Black therapist to work with Black therapists? You need to know your lane and your expertise. David’s own therapist is not an expert in ADHD. And neither is Isabelle’s. They know to ask us questions, can ask “how does this relate to ADHD?” We might be the person with ADHD that helps them better understand that. Allies don’t want to get rid of parts of you, they want to help parts of you. An ally is different than a researcher, Isabelle wants to name that you need to be enough of an ally to a topic and be curious. In undergrad, she studied anthropology and archaeology, and it’s a blend of super specific science and also lots of educated guessing. She remembers learning about participant observation in anthropology, that just by observing a culture or a group you are impacting the group. It’s way more about noticing what your own biases are. David’s own background in sociology, the idea of intersectionality. David didn’t really think about ADHD or neurodiversity as a culture until college. He’s a big comic book fan and he loved the X-Men. They’re trying to hide their mutant powers to not be exploited by the government and the X-Men are trying to help these mutants and take them to saving. Charles Xavier and Magneto were portrayed to be iconic people. Magneto was Malcolm X while Charles Xavier was based on Martin Luther King, Jr. It’s two different portrayals around protecting yourself—do you get violent and active or passive? Maybe the mutants are a great metaphor for neurodiversity as well as the civil rights war—if you have been marginalized you can have empathy toward other people who are marginalized. It’s not so personal, people do things to us that they do to other marginalized groups. It can also signify that we have a culture. It would be if everyone says they have a pile of unfolded clothes that threaten your identity, your pile of mail—-culturally both David and Isabelle are both connected to the plan that they didn’t want to leave it there. When we connect about parts of our culture. Isabelle and David so appreciate this conversation. Isabelle names asynchronous processing—she can’t just off the cuff rattle off her ideas and also needs time to talk it out, externalize, and think about things beyond the initial moment or conversations. How important it is for us to keep having these conversations. Isabelle wonders if David is like Charles Xavier. He wishes he could be Charles Xavier. Isabelle might be Charles Xavier. Because maybe she loves or identifies with Patrick Stewart so much. So maybe David is Magneto—in the comic books they were best friends, and he was like “they’ll never learn, we need to protect our people” whereas as the other is like “don’t give in to our aggressive urges.” David needs to shout out: Dungeon Crawler Carl. Not wearing any pants, the cat jumps out of his house trying to get the cat out of the tree, and Carl can then go on an 18 level dungeon crawl and can save the planet earth. The audio book is a treasure, David is a big fan of role playing games, he consumed all seven books in less than three weeks. Isabelle names why cats get stuck in trees, their claws go the other way so they get stuck—but big cats can go backwards. Isabelle mentions an enneagram book that she really appreciates. She was hooked on Borders and loved it as a kid and would keep trying to have someone explain me to me, and one of those books was on the enneagram (which makes David feel like he went to the bathroom during learning fractions and never picked up on it). And she mispronounced it and would read the book at people. Because tell her she’s neurospicy without telling her she’s neurospicy.

Stephanie Sarkis is an ADHD expert who also has ADHD

X-Men and more on Patrick Stewart

The American Psychological Association vote on 'homosexuality' being listed as a diagnosable mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) happened back in the LATE 80's (WHAAAATTTTT? yes).--there is a long history to depathologizing sexual identities, deeply impacted by tons of activism and advocacy. For more, you can see this NIH article on this history.

Dungeon Crawler Carl series

Cats getting stuck on trees because of claw shape -- fascinatingly, going down backwards is a skill some cats can learn. Also, here is this website: Catrescueguy.com. *(you're welcome)*

The amazing enneagram book Isabelle was trying to remember the title of -- The Unfiltered Enneagram by Elizabeth Orr

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards