← Something Wrong With The Podcast
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- [00:00]
Jordan
Nothing wrong with the pussy. Nothing wrong with the pussy.
- [00:06]
Unnamed Host
Emergency. Emergency. Emergency Podcast Podcast. Emergency Podcast Podcast. Breaking news. Breaking news. Complex release there. I know. I still don't know the name of the list.
- [00:18]
Jordan
Hip Hop Media Power Ranking.
- [00:20]
Unnamed Host
Complex released their 2025 second installment of the Hip Hop third installment of. Of the Hip Hop Media Power Ranking. And I am here with the face of Complex and the man that developed it was his idea. Three years ago, he was eating a Chipotle bowl at Grand Central, waiting to get on the C train to head somewhere, I don't even know, down to World Trade. Who knows what he was doing down there? And he said, hey, what if we ranked everybody in media so they would all understand how important or not important they are and how much we care about them with no bias whatsoever involved. So we're three years in, and here we are.
- [01:02]
Jordan
What an intro.
- [01:04]
Unnamed Host
Jordan is back. If you watched my Last episode, episode 27, Jordan and I talked heavy in the music scene. I said it once, I'll say it again. One of my good friends in this industry, one of the few people's opinions I respect on music and just all things culture, especially pertaining to hip hop. Just an overall good dude. So, yeah, 2025 hip hop media Power rankings top. Talk us through it.
- [01:25]
Jordan
Hot off the presses, fresh out. Yeah, man. 2025 media power ranking. This is an idea that some people on the team came up with three years ago. This is the third iteration. I believe not. Yeah, the third iteration, not the fourth. And I think a lot of people get confused.
- [01:44]
Unnamed Host
Gotcha.
- [01:44]
Jordan
With this. Thank you. With this list. Because they think that we're ranking these personalities on. On their. The quality of their content. Okay, that is not what this list is. If you read the intro, which I know nobody reads no more, I don't.
- [01:58]
Unnamed Host
Know how to read.
- [01:59]
Jordan
You know, we don't got to read the intro right now. But the premise of the list is power. Hence, like, whose platforms hold the most power and influence in the rap media landscape currently. It's like a snapshot of the last calendar year since the previous one dropped. But it's a snapshot of whose platform do artists want to most go on to that could impact their project the most. Whose platform, if they were to critique a project, it could legitimately impact it. And whose platform that if they just. If they were to say something, it would be cited and reported as news.
- [02:36]
Unnamed Host
So emphasis on the word power.
- [02:38]
Jordan
Yeah. Power Ranking. It's not like the best, it's not the hottest. That's why we were intentional with calling It a power ranking and not just the 2025 hip hop media list or best.
- [02:51]
Unnamed Host
So if we're talking power and hip hop, then why isn't Brian Steele Diddy's lawyer number one?
- [02:56]
Jordan
Because he's not a.
- [02:58]
Unnamed Host
That's a mover and a shaker.
- [02:59]
Jordan
He is not a media.
- [03:00]
Unnamed Host
You got thug and go to his Instagram, he trips out. He's got good point.
- [03:05]
Jordan
Look, if he started streaming, he. He might crack this list. If he started reporting on. On hip hop news and giving commentary.
- [03:11]
Unnamed Host
You free did it. You deserve to be at least top. Not saying you should be freed, but that's a. That is a hill to climb. And he succeeded the mountain.
- [03:20]
Jordan
But yeah, yeah. So 25.
- [03:22]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, man. So, okay, talk us through the. You're one of the voting members.
- [03:29]
Jordan
Yes.
- [03:29]
Unnamed Host
Use the mic. You do this for a living. How many people are on that committee?
- [03:35]
Jordan
Well, it's not like a committee per se. It's the music team that's the first. Like, who. That's who takes the first. First crack at it.
- [03:41]
Unnamed Host
Okay.
- [03:41]
Jordan
It's four of us total. We kind of look at the list that we had last year, put a whole bunch of names below it of people who weren't on it last year, who we think we should consider for this year's list, and then from there just deliberate start picking at each other's arguments of why we think this person should be there, this person should be on it still, this person should be off it. And ultimately it's a group vote between the music team and then also some other members of the content team who are a little higher up that join the conversation. So I'd say all in all, eight people. Eight or not, like around eight or nine. I think people in total are voting, but it's a conversation is obviously has to be unanimous to get somebody talk us through that.
- [04:25]
Unnamed Host
How far out from the list came out to today? We're recording the day the list came out and about an hour after it released until you said when you walked in here. We finalized it this morning.
- [04:36]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [04:36]
Unnamed Host
So how. How long is the process? Did it start? Two weeks out, a month out, two months out?
- [04:41]
Jordan
I want to say, like conversations. I mean, conversations are ongoing because obviously we're consuming hip hop. We're in hip hop media. We know what's moving and shaking. So like whenever, like people are starting to write, raise a notoriety, raise in power, we're just like making note of it, but like starting to meet about the list probably starts in this year, started in like maybe early June. Just kind of preliminary like, okay, let's put the get the names together. Let's just start in our small group first, like talking through everything before we present it to the larger group and then from there, yes, when do you.
- [05:18]
Unnamed Host
Take it to the larger group? How like refined does it need to be before you welcome in the other people?
- [05:23]
Jordan
We try to have it as like lined up as we. We as like our team of like four or five on the music team have an like we come to agreement. Okay, we like where everything is. We're bringing to a larger group because they're really good at picking up, you know, poking holes in where they think certain people should be, where certain people shouldn't be. Also like everyone consumes different platforms and different people. So it's really helpful to have those different perspectives of like, oh, you know, I don't really watch so and so as much as the next person. But they're able to kind of give a more well rounded opinion on why they should be or shouldn't be on the list. And that kind of helps us round it out. It's a lot of back and forth but like I said, at the end of day it comes. We all then agree on where everything is at when we finally hit publish.
- [06:12]
Unnamed Host
So that's exciting. So in terms of writing the blurbs as well, like how is that delineated?
- [06:21]
Jordan
I mean we just pick like I think you know, people pick who they want to write about and then we also like give it to a lot of a few freelancers who wanna who we bring on to write about these people. And the thing about the blurbs which I again please read the list. I know that when this comes out and it goes viral it's just going to be the names.
- [06:43]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, photos.
- [06:45]
Jordan
Yeah, the photos of the names. And no one go. Everyone just sees the fear Buck tree, the academics post. They don't go to the actual piece. I please, please would compel you to go to the piece because these blurbs, like we take our time to write them and explain. Not like these aren't just biographies on who these people are. Obviously everyone who's clicking in knows who these people are. The blurbs are the explanation of why they are in the place they are this year. Especially if they were on the list last year and if they moved up or down, it's the explanation of what happened in the last calendar year that that places them where they are on the list.
- [07:20]
Unnamed Host
So gotcha. I so just from a glancing at it I noticed a a more streaming heavy. Yes, yes, Power players most Notably, I mean, the biggest jump was Plaqueboy Max.
- [07:33]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [07:34]
Unnamed Host
From he wasn't on the list last year to jumping all the way to number four Facts. And I know you previously had mentioned that this was someone that you were championing.
- [07:42]
Jordan
Yeah, I wrote that blurb about him, Jersey Guy streamer. He's just the thing that I really liked and the team liked about Max is that his in the Booth series where he produces and fire and engineer songs with artists live on stream, it was just so different from what was happening in streaming and music previously. And the songs that he would make with these up and coming artists would actually be breaking through. Like, he would make songs with Baby Chief do it. Nino paid. He went, had a whole UK run, did a UK P, was Skepta, made a joint with Central C Fred Again, like, these songs weren't just like play play, stream songs.
- [08:23]
Unnamed Host
Yeah. They weren't cutesy. These were like legitimate out there.
- [08:27]
Jordan
Yeah. Like legitimate songs that did streaming numbers. So it's like for him to be able to do that as a streamer, have his, like, make music, have his opinion on music and, and have the platform where massive artists like a Central C, like a Skeptical, like a Fred again, like, you know, even like USB is like he had two chains on. Just like to have that power. Where people want to go on this stream and collaborate with you is, you know, a lot of people can't do that.
- [08:54]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [08:55]
Jordan
And he wasn't on the list last year because, you know, I think the in the Move series was a thing. It's been a thing for a few years now, but it was like bubbling. This really felt like his breakout year. I mean, he dropped a project of his own this year that, you know, that doesn't really play a part in it. But he just. This was his breakout year and he did stop streaming for a few months, which is why, honestly, he's not higher on the list, to be honest. He could, like I. I say in the blurb, he could definitely, I predict, clip this in the next year or two. Be like fighting with Kai for the number one spot. I promise you that. Like Black Boy Max, he's that guy. And the kids who, again, I think we have to remember who's consuming all of this content. Like his. The audience he commands is serious. You know, like, you see him on the timeline, even if you don't follow it, you see his clips.
- [09:46]
Unnamed Host
That's always my litmus test for. Because I don't. Truthfully, I don't follow a lot of the media pundits, nor Especially the streamers. But if you're saturated on my timeline, whether it be the meme pages or just like a viral video on the Explore page, I'm like, this is. There's motion here that even though I'm like a, you know, aware, more acutely aware than others of, like, what's going on in the industry, if I see someone's face that I don't know, constantly pop up, I'm like, oh, they're, like, doing something.
- [10:14]
Jordan
Exactly. And that's. I think that's a really important point. It's like, I don't also follow a lot of these people on their personal pages, but if I see their clips, like, I've never watched a full stream, a streamer.
- [10:27]
Unnamed Host
No. God, no. I don't even know how to do that.
- [10:29]
Jordan
But I see Max's clips all the time.
- [10:32]
Unnamed Host
You know, when I knew Plaque Boy, Max was real, when he did the show at the one you went to at. At Paramount. Brooklyn. Paramount, Amazing venue with Fred again and Skepta. And he was there for the. For the song. They had a moment on stage. And like, the white girls that I know that go to, like, the Hamptons every weekend or, like, are galvaning in Tulum during COVID Like, they're not only posting, like, filming the thing, obviously, because they're all on stage, but they're actually adding platform, like plaque. I'm like, oh, they know who he. Like, they know who he is. Like, the white girl from, like, you know, Connecticut or, like, rural Texas knows him. So, like, that's, you know, they're not like a black guy. They actually are adding this motherfucker. And, like, we know him.
- [11:12]
Jordan
He's broken through. Like, he's broken through. So that's why he's definitely earned a spot in the top five. And yet he is number four on our list.
- [11:20]
Unnamed Host
Uh, let's go down. Well, we can bounce around after this, but I have to. We have to go in order to. Number three this year is Joe, which is internally, because like you said, this came down to this morning. How did the New York Times piece. Very in depth, detailed piece about how he's raking in about annually, 20 million. Did that almost influence his rank on this list at all? Or did you guys have him locked in at 3? Because I will validate to defend Jordan. He was at three before that came out. When we first spoke about this list, the same day we shot the episode 27, he said Joe was there, and he seemed to stay there. I. I thought maybe you guys would be like, Maybe we should make him two.
- [12:04]
Jordan
Nah, bro. Yeah, Joe was locked in at three, which I think, like, yeah, the 20 million dollar New York Times piece, like.
- [12:11]
Unnamed Host
New York Times, that's, that was impressive.
- [12:15]
Jordan
But I think that the kind of like top five, like, it was just really locked in. And yeah, like a lot of the deliberation on kind of like the latter half the list was still in flux a little bit up until like that's the final hour. But I think, yeah, like, it's impressive. Like, I obviously wouldn't downplay that at all, but I think that, I think three is still fair. He was what, like two last year?
- [12:36]
Unnamed Host
He was two last year.
- [12:37]
Jordan
Yeah. So he fell down a spot. But like I, you know, in a video I'm making that probably be out by the time this is out, I said, you know, the top five just shuffled essentially outside of max, like act. Joe Charlemagne, they kind of just shuffled in the top five because like I, we, we collectively thought that they all are still kind of the most powerful. But yeah, I mean, it's impressive. I don't know if our opinions would be completely different if like that news came out a month ago. I don't know. I couldn't tell you if that would have like really swayed the opinion because I think it was always just like, with the top three is always just like splitting hairs of like 1 or like 2, 3, 4. Like those spots like, are always splitting hairs. I think we were like Israel were unanimous in decisions when it comes to this list, but I think we, we were unanimous in the Kai1 spot. So I don't think that would have been, that was like unshakable.
- [13:32]
Unnamed Host
Well, I wouldn't have a challenged Kai. My thought was at least leapfrogging act, which we can get to in a minute. That was kind of where I was thinking, because I know, like Joe, to me, I know podcasting in the, in the ever changing landscape of media, podcasting has become like archaic. Even though it's, you know, it's, it's a new media. He's an independent, you know, business. They, you know, they contracts, people. But he is new media. He's not legacy media, but he's been doing the show for, I mean, it's a long, a long amount of a long time. Years and years and years and years. And I know he treats it a little differently because of how much money he puts behind the paywall and he does like the Patreon thing. But I think Joe, at least in this list is like the bastion, like the last hope of like, old media in quotes, young old media. Whereas you look at ACT is far more into streaming. And obviously Kai is Kai Black boy at 4. Like, he's surrounded by the. The next wave of what media is.
- [14:31]
Jordan
Well, you know what's funny, like, and we were talking about this in, like, one of our group chats, I. To Joe's credit, as much as I ride for Max and I ride for, like, these kids who are like, kind of setting a different. Who are just moving things in a different direction, Joe is living proof that you would still rather have it parasocial uncs than parasocial kids follow you. Because the parasocial uncs have jobs and the parasocial high schoolers don't. So the.
- [15:01]
Unnamed Host
The uncs that the Patreon makes sense for them, you know, they can afford that.
- [15:05]
Jordan
Exactly. Like, Joe's audience and his demo have jobs. So they're able to pay that monthly, weekly, whatever the amount is for the Patreon to help elevate him to that status of bread. Like, you know, streaming definitely pays, but I think that it's a. That number is a testament. The 20 million is a testament to the audience, the loyalty of his audience.
- [15:31]
Unnamed Host
That 30s into their 40s.
- [15:33]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [15:34]
Unnamed Host
That older.
- [15:35]
Jordan
Listening to it when they're, like, driving home from work, when they're dropping their kids off at summer camp, like when they have a little bit of free time after mowing the lawn. I'm not trying to age this whole.
- [15:44]
Unnamed Host
Demo, but, like, when they're leaving divorce Court.
- [15:47]
Jordan
I'm not trying to age Joe's whole demo, but it's like the. The audience that you see on his, you know, in his community Twitter page and shit that, like, have been there since the before times when, you know, knowing how the cast swap in and out and just like. Yeah, being through it all. So, you know, a testament to him building something that lasts in a space that is changing, constant.
- [16:05]
Unnamed Host
Not on the list, but I saw mention in the blurb here. I think, like, Mark Lamont. Lamont Hill's edition is great in terms of, like, giving them some semblance of legitimacy with, like, a political, social opinion and like, something just remotely educational not to knock anybody else. They're very well spoken in the things that they know. But his addition adds a leg of that show that was always missing.
- [16:29]
Jordan
You know, it changes the entire complexion to me because, like, I felt like they were going down a path where it was becoming increasingly harder to watch because it felt like when someone doesn't. When someone didn't agree with an Opinion they would kind of just start to posture and like act like they were too good to art like to give their side or that everyone was just kind of like front and capping. And I love how Mark, when he has a take, he has actual like backing behind it.
- [16:57]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [16:58]
Jordan
He has sourcing. He has reason. He's not just saying because that's how he feels. I mean he's, you know, he is a. He does this.
- [17:06]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, yeah. I mean so I, I had the first time ever speaking with him was on a spaces with. With Joe actually. And we corresponded a little bit over the Middle Eastern con. I call it a conflict. It's not a conflict, it's a genocide. But it was my first time talking to him and it was really great and we, you know, offlined and things. But he's just like, I just love that someone like that is stepping into that space in a more like, you know, full time capacity.
- [17:33]
Jordan
Yeah. Great addition. And I think it really makes the entire cast more well rounded in and challenges them to think differently about certain topics rather than just brushing by it. So.
- [17:42]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's camps in someone that has nothing to offer educationally. Academics is number two.
- [17:48]
Jordan
Yes. Yes.
- [17:49]
Unnamed Host
This is. I have nothing nice to say about him. So why is he there?
- [17:54]
Jordan
Listen, I always, like I said at the beginning, this is meant to be a snapshot of the current hip hop media landscape, you know, whether we like it or not. A big.
- [18:05]
Unnamed Host
Oh, I understand his. I'm not saying you shouldn't be on the list.
- [18:08]
Jordan
No. 100% a big piece of this and like, you know, the challenge of doing it every year is like taking personal bias as much out of it as we can.
- [18:16]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [18:16]
Jordan
In the sense of objectively looking at whose clips are we seeing. Who's like, you know, if, if they said something, would we report it like it's news.
- [18:25]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [18:26]
Jordan
And for better or for worse, when app reports on Drake, when ACT reports on an inside source that he does probably have about, you know, anything, will you at least give it the benefit of that of listening to it?
- [18:40]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, like that's fair.
- [18:41]
Jordan
Like even like, you know, I remember I made a video about when Nikki was going ballistic on scissor, which we talked about.
- [18:47]
Unnamed Host
We did. They certainly had a little. Few more knocks after that. Yeah.
- [18:51]
Jordan
And a went on stream and gave even more context to a back and forth he had with Punch and Dave Free and Anthony Saleh. That was at the this Kendrick show and giving more color behind how Drake's team and Kendrick's team were using him as a vehicle to kind of like they would talk to him about things that would happen during the beef. Like, damn. Like, why were you doing this? Why are you reporting on this? Why would you report on this that Drake was saying. Why would you report on this that Kendrick is saying and never actually communicate between each other? Yeah, and that's a level of.
- [19:28]
Unnamed Host
Yeah. That wouldn't have been known otherwise.
- [19:29]
Jordan
Yeah, that's a level of sourcing that most people in this space don't have. And you just have to like, like, again, taking yourself. Taking your personal opinions on him out of it, give him. Acknowledge the power that he has.
- [19:47]
Unnamed Host
Sure. Yeah.
- [19:48]
Jordan
And that's why he's number two. And that's why he was number one last year. You know, because you.
- [19:52]
Unnamed Host
You mentioned when we first spoke about this the he did a lot of heavy lifting on the Diddy trial. Is that why he's.
- [19:58]
Jordan
Good point. Yeah. He. That too. Because in the Diddy trial where a lot of people in our industry did not want to talk about it because why. Because they were probably complicit. That's the quiet part. A lot of people didn't want to talk about it because they were probably complicit.
- [20:17]
Unnamed Host
Slippery hands.
- [20:18]
Jordan
They were afraid of getting a subpoena. But I mean that outside because they. Just because of all the relationships that that person was attached to you. I, you know, he regard, you know, I think you can. There can be critique on how he was covering it. But he was covering it and, and if nothing else, kids were staying up to date on it because of him.
- [20:41]
Unnamed Host
Because of him.
- [20:41]
Jordan
You know, like we were talking about, you know, how streaming has encroached on traditional media. There's been a lot of great reporting on the Diddy case editorially. Like, I'm not going to take away from the writers.
- [20:53]
Unnamed Host
It's a serious case.
- [20:54]
Jordan
Yeah, of course, like, there's a lot. I have a lot of music journalist friends who were front. We had our own reporter in the courtroom every single day. So that's taking nothing away from them. But a lot of the kids and a lot of just like the general public consume the rap media via video. And when he's streaming every other day, reporting on it live for you to just watch and consume it that way. That's how a lot of people were consuming it. And so. And a lot of other people on this list were not reporting on it in the same way. So that's why he. That was also a big reason why he. He got bumped up to the. Why he's still in the top.
- [21:32]
Unnamed Host
Got it. So yeah, to complete the shuffle of the top three, Kai is number one. Number. He was number three last year.
- [21:38]
Jordan
Yes.
- [21:38]
Unnamed Host
Is this. I think it's like at this point a unanimous. We don't obviously don't have to get into like of course, I think all that goes without saying. But I did want to mention you when we were finished talking about Black Boy, you said I wouldn't be surprised in a three or four years time he's number one. What do you think would knock Kai off that spot?
- [21:56]
Jordan
Like I think it would just be. It wouldn't be him falling off, it would be people like Max just elevating to a level that could compete with him. Because the thing about Kai is he holds a really, really powerful platform. But he said even recently that he doesn't consider himself a music critic. Right. He comments on music and he gives reviews because like, like any black kid from New York in the culture, like he loves hip hop, he loves music and he has this platform where he would be talking about it regardless. And so now I feel like he's kind of been thrust slightly into this position of feeling like, oh, like let me give a little rating, like let me give a numbered review. But it's not like he's considering himself a serious music critic.
- [22:38]
Unnamed Host
Like that's not his. Yeah, that's not his.
- [22:41]
Jordan
Like that's not his lane.
- [22:42]
Unnamed Host
His lane. Yeah.
- [22:42]
Jordan
But he still is doing that on the most powerful platform in hip hop media. And the reason he wasn't number one in years past, because I was pretty to be number one like last year. But the reason he wasn't was because he wasn't giving his opinion.
- [22:55]
Unnamed Host
He's too neutral.
- [22:56]
Jordan
Yeah, he was having rappers on stream. Obviously every rapper and they mama wanted to go on the stream because of how many people he has watching him. But he wasn't saying anything of a value about the music. He was just, yeah, just everything's fiery. Very neutral take. So I give him credit for despite having this massive platform and, and despite having all of these relationships, these personal relationships with artists, he still keeps it a being like the little baby review was like a really I think pivotal moment for him.
- [23:23]
Unnamed Host
Isn't he mad at him Babies?
- [23:24]
Jordan
Well, no, I don't think, I'm not sure what their personal relationship is. But despite having a friendship with Baby, he still kept it a stack about not liking the album. And that's real because a lot of people even on the journalist side really won't keep it a stack about certain artists because of a personal relationship.
- [23:41]
Unnamed Host
They have never.
- [23:42]
Jordan
So I saw that that's, you know, that deserves credit and pr, that he. With that type of size and platform and relationships was still keeping it rel. Like a stack somewhat. You know, I mean, so I give him credit for that.
- [23:56]
Unnamed Host
I do too. We can skip. I mean, it's Charlemagne at the five, Vlad at the six, Nardoart the seven, Fantano at the eight. I. I mean, what was he. I was gonna say, talk about someone that's just consistent. He was eight last year. Yeah, he's eight this year. Yeah, I. I like people like him and Nardwar that just. There's something so not easy. I don't. Easy is not the right word. But you. When you have. When you've defined what the thing is that you do and you know that basically when you develop the theme or the formula and you know that like in Fantano's case, it's. It's not so much about. I'm trying to. How to think of the word this. The. The excitement in need for his review comes with the weight of the album that's coming out.
- [24:46]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [24:47]
Unnamed Host
So it's. Bieber is putting out an album, obviously because of who Bieber is. His video is gonna get a shit ton of views because of the weight in which Bieber holds in the music community. I think that's dope, that, like, he's good because he's established himself as legit, but he can critique every album. But when I hit, when a fucking heavyweight titan drops, they're gonna run to him to see the review and it's like, it's just such an. A beautiful way to operate in Nardoir as well. Everyone just loves Nardoir, you know.
- [25:19]
Jordan
Fantano, to his credit, is like one of the last true independent music critics out where his rating, his personal rating matters. Like, yeah, he, like today or it was there yesterday he dropped his numbered review of the new Tyler the Creator album. I think he gave it like an eight and.
- [25:38]
Unnamed Host
Oh, he did, yeah.
- [25:39]
Jordan
Which exactly. Here's a crazy part. Like, I just did an interview with an artist who I won't name because I don't know when that interview's going to come out. I'll tell you off camera. But I did this interview with this artist and we were talking about the evolving hip hop media landscape and he was saying how a lot of kids and he was upset about this, which I think values so. But like a lot of kids will get their opinion on music based on the media figures that they Follow and respect.
- [26:03]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [26:03]
Jordan
So it's like Fantano giving Tyler's album an 8 has legitimate power to sway somebody's opinion if they respect him and they respect his reviews.
- [26:15]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [26:15]
Jordan
So it's like that is a testament of itself, of how much power he holds, where it's like, if you're in the middle about something and he says it's great, you will give it the benefit of the down.
- [26:24]
Unnamed Host
Be like, it grew on me.
- [26:26]
Jordan
Exactly.
- [26:26]
Unnamed Host
That's when the. It grew on me jumps in, you.
- [26:28]
Jordan
Know, which could be great.
- [26:29]
Unnamed Host
I have so many texts of you saying it was mid and you didn't.
- [26:31]
Jordan
Like it, which definitely is it one part because you're a sheep and the second part, though, because of how.
- [26:35]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [26:36]
Jordan
Respected his opinion.
- [26:38]
Unnamed Host
Yeah. He. What'd you think of that Tyler album? Just a sidebar real quick.
- [26:44]
Jordan
Wasn't for me. You know, it was produced well. But, like, it just, like. I don't know, bro. Like, I didn't need, I didn't need it. I didn't need it.
- [26:54]
Unnamed Host
I think it's just like, I, I, I think for someone that's so. That leans so heavy into, like, themes and the rollout process like this. Lazy is not the right word because he very much has, like, a. He created a character, which he always does. It's very color coordinated. Like, he has that whole aesthetic thing that he developed, but it, It, he, it plays to me. It's like a mixtape. He dropped it less than a year after Chromacopia. He dropped it in the middle of a world tour. Like, it just seemed like this was, like, a fun moment that he wanted to get out during the summer. Because I would imagine, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if next year he drops one to the scale into the musicality of his previous work. That's kind of what. I don't hate it, though. I sound like I'm fucking trashing it. I don't hate it. But it's not. It's not Flower Boy, it's not Igor, it's not Chromebook. I know I shouldn't be like, you. Don't compare him to the other. It's impossible to not hold you to your own standard. I've seen what you've done. I expect, you know, that's the bar that you've set for yourself, which is a very, very high bar.
- [27:59]
Jordan
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think he should have just called it a mixtape, but whatever. He wanted to call an album his ninth studio album, stamp it.
- [28:05]
Unnamed Host
I worked out, too. I liked it.
- [28:06]
Jordan
Yeah. I Mean, he says it's meant to be. I haven't ran to it yet. I haven't like actually done an exercise to it, which is what he said you should be doing to it. So maybe I'll give it a listen then and see how I feel about it.
- [28:16]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, the morning it came out, I came out at 6am Eastern. I was at the gym at like 8, 8:30. So I was like fresh off the wake up and I just like threw it on. I was like, oh, this is. I get it. Like it works there in that setting. But like I'm not, you know, if you're chilling, it's not something you put on. But that's not the point. The whole point, literally the first line is like, get up and dance, you know. Anyway, number nine.
- [28:39]
Jordan
Yes, sir.
- [28:40]
Unnamed Host
Turn the six upside down. Nine. That's good. That's. Yeah, nine. Certainly by way of Drake. This. Rory and mall are at 9. When I was there, we were 13. So clearly I'm the problem. They got rid of the. They chopped off the tumor, they removed the cancer and everyone goes home happy. And I'm. I'm looking for another tea to suckle on. Yes, clip it. And by clip it, I mean I'll clip it because I.
- [29:11]
Jordan
Crazy. Crazy as hell.
- [29:13]
Unnamed Host
No, I mean this is. I. Before you do your. I think this is what happens when you sign with a real production company that takes your content seriously. Volume has done a very good thing for them that Neither Sirius nor Studio71 were able to do for them. Because I lived it and I. And the studio. The deal with Sirius was like, that was just done quick. They were. Everyone was ready to get out of that. And then the Studio71 thing was equally like, this isn't working, we need to get out of this. But even when they were in it, it's not like either of those production companies offered anything to enhance the quality of the show. But volume, when I was still there, I mean during negotiations and all that stuff, I was hearing, you know what they wanted to do? Add an extra day of recording a week, which would introduce this new show segment where they're talking about sports and like creating more content, which would obviously lead to them having more opportunities, create more viral moments and have more things happen. Like I think the show itself has gone on, you know, with Rory Mall and Demaris, like, that's fine, that's. That's always been on autopilot. But what's changed has made the actual content better because they're getting talent by way of the production deal. And they're putting out content with people. Like, they got that Joy Taylor. Like, people like that when, like, they're hot, they'll go out and get them and put them on that couch and they'll have a moment with them.
- [30:37]
Jordan
Well, that's interesting context because obviously I didn't know any of this.
- [30:41]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, obviously I got to love the weeds of it. Yeah, I know in your instance, that's not what you guys cared about at all. It's all about, like, Mall's relationship with Drake, which led to, like, you know, some bigger moments.
- [30:50]
Jordan
Yeah, for sure. Like, you know. Yeah. To their credit, a lot of it was definitely Mall's relationship with Drake and them leveraging that for content, which I think is very smart. Like, the beef is done. The stimulus package is like, I would say that the Drake Kendrick beef stimulus package is subsided for the most part for most people. But it's like they were think so. I mean, I think that, like, talking Drake versus Kendrick has kind of like died off relative to where it was a year ago, but. Oh, yeah, you know, I mean, but like, obviously the Drake just talking about the biggest artists in the game will always generate.
- [31:27]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:28]
Jordan
And when you have an inside source to that, like how Mall has kind of been, that's what really elevates you up those few spots. And also just like, you know, shout out to Maris. Like, I think the. They've been able to create news and moments by themselves. Not necessarily always related to like a beef. And, you know, the. The Head Mall debate moment was something that we highlighted also as like being a thing. That was a thing. You know what I mean?
- [32:02]
Unnamed Host
That in itself was news and.
- [32:04]
Jordan
Exactly. They were able to create. It's all about creating moments.
- [32:08]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [32:08]
Jordan
When you're like that top 10 pedigree and so they were. That's kind of what elevated them out of the 13 spot into the top 10.
- [32:17]
Unnamed Host
Because I think you're right. I think there's an art to re. This is something I've always said about, like, pages that just react. You don't want to be reactionary. You want to be someone that's actually in like, in Joe's case, like, you want to be someone that creates the news cycle, someone that other people are talking about, not this happens. And then you're. Then you talk. You don't want to be the person that's reacting to everything else that's going on around you. You want people to be talking about you and your situation. So, yeah, I mean, that's. That's that's cool.
- [32:49]
Jordan
Yeah, yeah, listen. They're there. They're there.
- [32:51]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
- [32:52]
Jordan
I mean I respect you for, for.
- [32:54]
Unnamed Host
You wrote the blurb for that.
- [32:55]
Jordan
I did.
- [32:56]
Unnamed Host
Right there.
- [32:56]
Jordan
I have to stay consistent. I wrote it last year, I got.
- [32:58]
Unnamed Host
About it this year. Yeah, it was all peace and high fives last year. I don't, I'm not to. On anybody from the 10. I mean, Gillian Waller were at 10, Nori at at 11, Ebro 12. Who's Trapp Lord Ross. So he is like, he's at 13. He is 20 last year.
- [33:23]
Jordan
A figure who does a lot of hip hop culture criminal reporting. He does like really long video essays about rap court cases and in like.
- [33:34]
Unnamed Host
A Vlad way or just like a.
- [33:36]
Jordan
Like a true crime way.
- [33:37]
Unnamed Host
Oh, okay.
- [33:38]
Jordan
And his, his videos do, you know, very high numbers. And he is again, this is a snapshot, right. So he reflects a specific corner of hip hop media. That's not like he's not like interviewing artists.
- [33:52]
Unnamed Host
He's not like, he's not talking about music.
- [33:53]
Jordan
He's talking purely true crime, which is like, you know, I definitely think true crime.
- [33:57]
Unnamed Host
Streets of la. Do you remember that video game? No, Too young for that anyway.
- [34:02]
Jordan
You know, I think that people are. Can validly feel away about the content he produces. But again it speaks more to however you feel about the landscape that those videos that are probably exploitative as still.
- [34:19]
Unnamed Host
Well, is he like snitch? Is there what people say with Vlad? The thing is always like people are always incriminating themselves. He knows that he's setting them up. Does he do that or is he just speaking to facts of what's the case of the matter? Does he, does he have artists on? I don't know.
- [34:33]
Jordan
No, no, it's that. It's the latter. He's speaking to the facts that are out there. He's kind of putting breadcrumbs together. It's just, you know, it's. I understand it rubbing people the wrong way because also how he looks, you know, he looks like Harry Potter, so.
- [34:48]
Unnamed Host
Certainly does. Yeah.
- [34:49]
Jordan
It's like, you know, you just said.
- [34:50]
Unnamed Host
Like also that name is fucking hilarious.
- [34:52]
Jordan
Yeah. Like you just looking up, you saying who's trapped. Ross shows he's reflective of a specific corner of hip hop media, you know what I mean? So I could definitely see people like turning their head to him being number 13. But like the numbers show that people are engaging with it. Even if, you know, you or I don't engage with those people.
- [35:12]
Unnamed Host
Yeah. I mean nearly one and a half million subs on YouTube. So.
- [35:15]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [35:16]
Unnamed Host
So, you know, there's no shortage of hip hop murders. We know that. Or crime. This is, I think, most exciting. Shannon Sharp from not on the list to 14. I mean, club Shay. Shay is a juggernaut, man. Yeah. And he survived a scandal of his own somewhere this year. Where did they land on that?
- [35:39]
Jordan
I think he just paid her off. Like, I think that's where it ended up.
- [35:43]
Unnamed Host
Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:44]
Jordan
But, yeah, I mean, look, Unc, bro.
- [35:47]
Unnamed Host
Give this an envelope.
- [35:50]
Jordan
Skill chill. You know, Unk definitely gets the guests. He has the platform. He is still he. I think this year he transitioned from being just sports and pop culture to, like, having artists on and having. Obviously, like, he. It's easy for him to generate news. Yeah, easy. And before it was just more, though, so like the Cat Williams, just pop culture comedian, athlete news. But now, like, even, you know, back. I think it was last year or two years ago we did. Or it was last year, the sports team did a sports media power ranking after we did ours.
- [36:26]
Unnamed Host
Oh, he made both.
- [36:27]
Jordan
No, no, he didn't make ours because he was number one on theirs.
- [36:30]
Unnamed Host
Oh, you couldn't.
- [36:31]
Jordan
I mean, we could have. But also, I don't think that at that point in time, he was really in the music scene like that.
- [36:36]
Unnamed Host
Okay.
- [36:37]
Jordan
This year, he's definitely kind of transitioned into the music scene more. And he's. Yeah, he could have maybe even gone higher if he did more music things. It was more balanced because he still does a lot of, like, popcorn.
- [36:47]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [36:47]
Jordan
But his music moments are large, so that's why he's here.
- [36:50]
Unnamed Host
He. Damn. I don't remember what I was gonna say about him. I. I just blanked. I like Shannon. I think he makes great content. He's. Oh, this is what I was gonna ask. Unk off Shannon. Who are the. The Unk. The great uncs of hip hop? I'm. I'm trying to think off top of my mind. Shannon. Shannon versus Joe. Let's start there.
- [37:10]
Jordan
I mean, obviously, in terms of hip hop, Joe's has cleared him.
- [37:14]
Unnamed Host
But, like, in, like, the. The greater unsphere, the greater.
- [37:17]
Jordan
Like, who's more?
- [37:18]
Unnamed Host
Unk. Yeah. Who's more.
- [37:21]
Jordan
Oh, probably Joe, because Shannon still be outside, clearly. So, like, like. I mean, in the sense of, like, Shannon's still like Shannon. Like, we obviously, like, he give Unk. Like, we call him Unk everything.
- [37:31]
Unnamed Host
What do you mean he's outside because he got caught.
- [37:34]
Jordan
No, no, no.
- [37:34]
Unnamed Host
Joe got caught.
- [37:35]
Jordan
Yes. All right. No, no.
- [37:37]
Unnamed Host
Dick out running around your building.
- [37:39]
Jordan
I'm saying more because, like, Shannon, I Feel like moves like a young cat in some senses. Not necessarily with that specific situation, but just like, okay, you know, trying to maintain his youth. And Joe, I feel like it's fully embraced his UNC status. Like, besides going to strip clubs a lot, which maybe that is also part of UNK status.
- [37:57]
Unnamed Host
I don't know.
- [37:58]
Jordan
I'm not.
- [37:59]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, yeah, I got some tendencies. We could skip Joe and Jada. Wait, not skip, but when did they start their show?
- [38:07]
Jordan
Recently.
- [38:07]
Unnamed Host
I was gonna say, is that new? I was like, am I. I'm. Am I that far out the loop?
- [38:10]
Jordan
But I was like, I want to say, like, it was like a few months ago. Def. Obviously, again, a new inclusion. But they. They benefit heavily from the Jim Jones. They kind of started. They kicked off Jim Jones's Nas rollout, which became obviously a big thing. And also, you know, it's a cheat code when you put two popular rappers together on a podcast. But to their credit, they also have great chemistry and synergy. And I see that podcast getting to a drink champs level.
- [38:38]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [38:38]
Jordan
If they can continue at the clip that they're doing it at.
- [38:41]
Unnamed Host
So, yeah. Mall's kryptonite. DJ Head.
- [38:44]
Jordan
Yes.
- [38:45]
Unnamed Host
Was not on the list last year.
- [38:46]
Jordan
Might have been. Might have been an oversight by us, I will admit.
- [38:49]
Unnamed Host
Should have been on the list last year.
- [38:50]
Jordan
Probably should have been on the list last year. Shout out to Head for sure.
- [38:54]
Unnamed Host
I. Yeah, I mean, I think it's. This is the thing with someone like with DJ Head and I, again, I love how he's a great guy, but how much of his spot in. In ranking? I guess much similar to malls. Like when the flame dies on those moments when the Kendrick and Drake did, like, where does that look without the boost from that relationship?
- [39:15]
Jordan
Well, look, one thing I'll give Head is he's super smart. And it's not even like he did this on purpose. He's organically and naturally positioned this way. He is a West coast pillar, Right?
- [39:27]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [39:27]
Jordan
And especially even in, like, you have mad west coast pillars, Big Boy is obviously massive, but Head positioned himself with the Kendrick and Drake thing, so that kind of elevated him to a level that people outside of his regional scope started to tap in.
- [39:43]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [39:43]
Jordan
And now that things are feeling like becoming even more kind of like East coast west, because you had the Joey beef. You had like, more like attention from at least like New York centric outlets like us to the west coast and things going on. Head is the spokesperson. Head is kind of like the figurehead, no pun intended, for rest, for west coast hip hop. Media discourse. And you tap, you tap into him when the Joey vs. Ray Vaughan and the entire west coast thing is happening. You tap in with him when Kendrick is on tour. You tap in with him when Tyler drops an album. Because Tyler's west coast, so he is reporting for. And he also has a lot of inside sources with these massive artists on the West Coast.
- [40:21]
Unnamed Host
Sure. Yeah.
- [40:22]
Jordan
So he's a trusted source for the west coast and that elevates him. And plus, obviously this year was the first, like full calendar year where his show with Elliot and Jeremy, heck, the Bigger picture really took off because it got kicked off during the beef. So when we dropped the list, that show was just starting and now it's had like a full year to kind of grow into what it is, and it's still growing, but I think also having a show outside of his. His west coast podcast and shout out.
- [40:50]
Unnamed Host
To Gina Views outside of that with Gina.
- [40:53]
Jordan
Yeah, Gina, Gina.
- [40:55]
Unnamed Host
Every clip that they do. Like, she. She's very good.
- [40:58]
Jordan
Gina is the shoes.
- [40:59]
Unnamed Host
Very good.
- [41:00]
Jordan
Shout out to Gina Views.
- [41:01]
Unnamed Host
And Jeremy. Jeremy's dope. He came up to me at Dreamville and we. I gotta connect with that. When he's in New York, he wants to come sit down. But I like Jeremy too. They're great cast. Like, that's a great crew.
- [41:14]
Jordan
Yeah. And Gina and Jeremy both also still bubbling like on the come up and definitely probably could earn a spot like next year for sure. But yeah, so that's. That's kind of why head got on a list and then, you know, right below him, your boy. Salute to Worldwide Wet Wilson.
- [41:30]
Unnamed Host
Nah, nah, nah, keep it, keep it. Nope, nope, we're not. Nope. We're not changing the energy on that one. My man was five last year. He's down to 17.
- [41:41]
Jordan
Yes.
- [41:41]
Unnamed Host
He's falling faster than Trump's approval rating. What's happening? Listen, this is Elliot, if you're watching this, this is all Jordan's fault.
- [41:50]
Jordan
This is salute to Elliot. N. Listen, bro, it was like, okay, yeah, he was at 5 and he slid down into 7.
- [41:56]
Unnamed Host
That's a big fall. That's the biggest fall, right?
- [41:58]
Jordan
I. I think. Yeah, true. Yeah, I think it is. I think it's like out of everyone on the list, probably, but like he said it himself, he was crashing out a lot and the crash outs were not becoming. And you know, some things are out of his control. He lost his Instagram recently, but it was just kind of felt like he had a scorching hot previous year. But he's kind of like taking a back seat A little bit to head. Head is obviously one spot above him.
- [42:25]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [42:27]
Jordan
The field got increasingly more competitive, and salute to him for being in the game for as long as he has been. You know, he's like working LeBron numbers. So I still, you know, you still tip your hat to the. To the OGs. But, yeah, the field is getting increasingly more competitive, man. And we felt like Elliot slid a little bit. He's still on the list. He didn't fall off the list completely. A few people fell off the list completely. So he didn't say he fell off, but completely. But you know that just to go.
- [42:58]
Unnamed Host
From five to nothing is.
- [42:59]
Jordan
Use it as fire to light up under you, you know? I mean, if you care about this list, which people clearly do, and we see. Spend a lot of time putting this list together.
- [43:07]
Unnamed Host
Huh?
- [43:08]
Jordan
You don't agree with it, prove us wrong. You know what I mean?
- [43:12]
Unnamed Host
I hear that we can. DDG is number 18. I don't. We can jump over him. No, I mean, congrats. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Nadesk. I want to talk about Nadesca because she brings up a question that a lot of people have when it comes to this complex list is the bias that may be involved when it comes to selecting former or current complex hosts and personalities. Obviously, Speedy's not on this list.
- [43:37]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [43:38]
Unnamed Host
I think that's smart by you guys to be like, we'll throw the sun off the trail by removing speed.
- [43:42]
Jordan
Listen, Speedy, because he's a current employee and, like. And you know, I'm gonna keep it a stack with you.
- [43:46]
Unnamed Host
Like, I know.
- [43:47]
Jordan
Dead ass. That ass. Like, there's truly no. Deska. Is great on her own.
- [43:51]
Unnamed Host
She's fantastic. And I'm speaking for the greater Internet. This isn't my opinion.
- [43:55]
Jordan
I know.
- [43:56]
Unnamed Host
But it is. It when someone sees. It's like when people. Rory always used to make fun of the iHeartRadio Music Awards, and every year, Charlemagne would win every award. It's like, well, no shit. He's an iheart employee.
- [44:06]
Jordan
Yeah, I know. For the contrarians on the TL Dead ass. Yes, that's good. Used to work for Complex for many years. That was a. That was a long time ago.
- [44:15]
Unnamed Host
And B, alumni.
- [44:17]
Jordan
Come on.
- [44:17]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [44:18]
Jordan
Still alumni. Still love her to death. She just interviewed Kendrick, like, you know, say what you want about whether that. Because it was the Apple Music connect. Whatever. Like, she has a show on Apple Music. She has two shows on Apple Music.
- [44:29]
Unnamed Host
She.
- [44:29]
Jordan
And she was, like, the only person.
- [44:31]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [44:32]
Jordan
To interview Kendrick Lamar. After the biggest rap beef in music history. That deserves props and credit. And she's also just a great journalist. And we do. It's dope when we're able to have great traditional journalists on this list because like I said many times in this video, this is a snapshot of the current landscape. In the current landscape, the traditional journalists, it's. We gotta fight. You know, you have to be able to do so many different things now to be a journalist that holds power or power in a, I guess traditional sense of people clicking in on your. So for her to still be true to the written word and be true to real journalistic ethics.
- [45:20]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, she has. That's what I've always loved about her and. And jinx as well. Shout out Jinx. Like they've. They were both. You could tell there's like a level of like decorum or like training or like, you know, they're treat the. Treated as an art form. Like you, I think you. I mean you didn't. You study this? You went to college for this? Like.
- [45:36]
Jordan
Yes.
- [45:36]
Unnamed Host
I think when you really go through. When you take courses on the stuff and you treat journalism as it's intended to be. I'm not questioning the desk as place at all. She's in a. Amazing journalist. So it's good to see her. One of what, two women?
- [45:50]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [45:50]
Unnamed Host
Angela Yee. We can go. Big boy was at 19 Boulevard Kevin 20. Angela Yeezy, 21. How. Here's a general question. How can more women make this list? I think pay them more.
- [46:03]
Jordan
I mean, I don't know.
- [46:04]
Unnamed Host
I'm just saying. WNBA taglines. Yeah. I don't know.
- [46:06]
Jordan
I mean, I don't know.
- [46:07]
Unnamed Host
I think that Angel Reese starts a pod.
- [46:09]
Jordan
No. Well, say who knows? Shane is on the list. But I mean, look, it's like, you know, it's the. The rap media as a whole is very male dominant. We talked about Gina. There's like definitely women who are great at what they do. It's just. I think a lot of them aren't getting platformed how they should.
- [46:29]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [46:31]
Jordan
You know, I think about Annabeth Klein. Super fire, super dope on the independent side, like pushing really small artists to big artists. There's this one girl whose name. Whose name is escaping me. Oh my God. And it's got. She interviewed Smino. She interviewed. She follows me on Twitter. Damn. I don't. I can't remember.
- [46:54]
Unnamed Host
But I guess my. My thing is like I. And I. I'd hate to pigeonhole women and be like only talk about female artists, but I think if any women. That's a drone is out there and I know you don't want to like box yourself in, maybe that's why no one's done it. I think there is an opportunity for a female journalist to become the go to for all things female rap and really be the home for where all the women are not just rappers but also like entertainers, whatever. Go to their platform and speak only to them. Like offer those exclusive moments only to them. And like give a woman and a woman's tone a woman's voice. Someone that probably can speak more to what you're going through. Like the ability to own that type of content. I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet.
- [47:40]
Jordan
I'm wait. And I'm scrolling Tyler's tail because he quotes me to her and I'm going to find her name because I'm not about to just say all that and not say her name. That would be crazy.
- [47:49]
Unnamed Host
Say her name. Not too fucking much while you're doing that. Who the fuck is Arshan Jawed? Oh, kids takeover. Damn. I shouldn't have said that. I know. I. I never knew that was his name.
- [48:04]
Jordan
Yeah. L.C. l.C. You. You probably. You've probably seen her.
- [48:11]
Unnamed Host
You. Yes, I have.
- [48:14]
Jordan
Yes.
- [48:14]
Unnamed Host
She's dope. She's dope.
- [48:16]
Jordan
She's super doping on the come up. She's super doping on the come up. Big shout out to Elsie. But yeah, so there's definitely women killing it. Arshon. Yeah, he again, we're trying to.
- [48:26]
Unnamed Host
We try Canadian.
- [48:27]
Jordan
Yeah. Shout out to the.
- [48:28]
Unnamed Host
Shout out to Canada. They got better hip hop media than they do in America. Drake said that. Oh, and yeah, and on tour he said, you know what, it's not just artists, it's also media.
- [48:41]
Jordan
Lol.
- [48:42]
Unnamed Host
He said the Chicken Shack is better than She's British. Same thing.
- [48:48]
Jordan
Anyway, arson, he does kiss it over, which, you know, it's platform fire. He's growing as a name because he obviously does all the interviews with the artists reflective of that underground space. Interviewing like he does. He did like a super viral interview with Lucky recently, the Chicago rapper. And he's doing not just like mainstream rappers, he's doing rappers that he's interested in and he built that from the ground up. So like that is big ups to him for without any type of major in this major network backing building that. And I think that's what's really earned him a spot and he's probably going to climb. I think he's at the same start he was at last year, but he's.
- [49:28]
Unnamed Host
Probably going, oh, for sure, for sure. I'm not even gonna attempt this one.
- [49:32]
Jordan
ZS and B Lou, my guys.
- [49:34]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [49:34]
Jordan
Yes. YouTube OGs who have now started streaming on YouTube. Who. Listen, you may not be familiar with them now, but they were named in Drake's lawsuit when he UMG lawsuit because of their reaction to Not Like Us. Like, they had a viral reaction.
- [49:53]
Unnamed Host
He got. It was too positive.
- [49:55]
Jordan
But that just a testament to like. Nah, like, that's a testament to them. So funny them being figures because they, you know, Drake is like, they must have been gotten paid because he saw their. Their reaction.
- [50:08]
Unnamed Host
That's awesome. Whoa. That. Oh.
- [50:11]
Jordan
John Caramonica. Yes.
- [50:13]
Unnamed Host
New York Times. What's popcat?
- [50:16]
Jordan
Who the what is podcast. He has a podcast on the New York Times. He's like an OG New York Times journalist. Really, really good OG legendary writer and one of the probably the most traditional journalists on this list. First I'm on the list. He did a really viral interview with the clips during the rollout for the New York Times.
- [50:37]
Unnamed Host
Oh, then I've definitely seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a great piece.
- [50:40]
Jordan
He's obviously not a like, media figure. Like, he. He's not like a personality.
- [50:47]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [50:48]
Jordan
But his work is really strong and he's one of those traditional journalists.
- [50:53]
Unnamed Host
Sure.
- [50:54]
Jordan
That pushes. Is pushing the written word and is staying relevant thanks to the written word.
- [51:01]
Unnamed Host
Which is tough in today's landscape.
- [51:03]
Jordan
Super, super tough to not rely on the clickbait and to still be able to generate traffic, engagement, conversation off of people reading your shit.
- [51:11]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [51:12]
Jordan
When people are not reading shit, people aren't even reading this list. That's why we're making videos about it.
- [51:17]
Unnamed Host
That is true. It's wicked out here to make a video about your own list.
- [51:20]
Jordan
And, you know, let me also just take the time to shout out all of my writers out there. Andre G, Armand, Sadler Wango, like all of my brothers, Regina Cho, like, everyone who's out there still writing shit. Because it's hard to make a living just writing these days. So this media list is.
- [51:40]
Unnamed Host
I want to write more. I would freelance, bro.
- [51:42]
Jordan
I want to write this hip hop media list. I see a lot of, you know, valid criticism from my writer friends who don't like this list because it feels like it's propping up.
- [51:53]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [51:54]
Jordan
Rewarding, rewarding figures who shouldn't be reflecting, like, hip hop journalism. And sure, I say it's a snapshot. We are not saying this is the. These are the best people, but we are platforming these people.
- [52:07]
Unnamed Host
We are like, you're literally Saying they're the best people.
- [52:09]
Jordan
We are not. We're saying they have the most power.
- [52:10]
Unnamed Host
Right. You believe in all of their values.
- [52:13]
Jordan
But it's like I hear, I hear what my homies say and I just want it to be known that like people should continue to support that side of it too. Because there wouldn't be any of this without that, you know, I mean, even though we are moving into an increasingly more video driven media landscape, the written word is still important. We saw it in the clips. Roll out all the essays, all of the interviews that were predominantly written still. Like Frasier Tharp, my og, Great man, my guy, complex alum.
- [52:44]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, GQ now, right?
- [52:45]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [52:46]
Unnamed Host
Doing great work over there.
- [52:47]
Jordan
My literal og. He has generated mad news throughout this entire year. Just off of the writing. He doesn't do no video shit.
- [52:55]
Unnamed Host
Great pen.
- [52:56]
Jordan
Like he interviewed future, he interviewed the clips, he broke the news about the clips. Not fucking with Push, not fucking with Travis. Like he's different. And shows that you can still have a place in this space as just a writer. So I think that's a super important.
- [53:10]
Unnamed Host
While we're on the topic of writers, it's gonna be able to throw a name out here. Not many people. It's like if you know, you know. But if you come across his work. Jeff Weiss is a writer that I've been deeply obsessed with since I started caring about music journalism. He just put out a book actually about Britney Spears, which is like, I don't care about Britney Spears. It just read his style of writing and how he, how he gets stuff across. He's a big champion of rap. He wrote this incredible pieces on Draco. Just a really cool guy too. Predictions for next year?
- [53:39]
Jordan
Oh, that's a good question. Predictions for next year. I think I definitely think Gina Views gets on the list. I think just off the pace that her pod with head is going in the direction is going in. I think we see more kids who cover underground music getting on the list. There's a kid, Not a kid, my homie. His name is M. Well, he has a show on our generation music called well oh well where he interviews a lot of like underground rappers, predominantly underground rappers, independent rappers, but like really unique concept for a show. I think that as the underground increasing grows and those artists become larger and larger who he's already interviewed, he. His presence will also start to balloon. I think outside of people who will jump on the list. Like I said, I already think that Plaque boy Max is going to be top three, top two in the next year or Two. I don't know, man. It's so hard to predict because, like, this space is, like, changing every single day.
- [54:47]
Unnamed Host
And, and it could also. I mean, for what we said earlier, it could also come down to depending on what artist is having a moment, that could. Depending on the relationship they have with someone, it could catapult them either, you know, up a few pegs or not.
- [54:59]
Jordan
So I have a question for you.
- [55:00]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [55:01]
Jordan
Honest opinion. How did we do?
- [55:06]
Unnamed Host
I mean, this could have been. I like it. I, I, I think.
- [55:11]
Jordan
I don't.
- [55:12]
Unnamed Host
I, I don't know why I'm so transfixed on this. This. I don't think act should be too.
- [55:17]
Jordan
Okay.
- [55:17]
Unnamed Host
That's kind of where I'm at. But, like, other than that, like, I don't have many qualms or anything to, you know, I'm not nitpicking over anything. It's fine. It's good.
- [55:25]
Jordan
So outside of the people who will be commenting on this list, who are on the list and feel like they should be higher, do you think that this will be generally agreed upon by the team?
- [55:34]
Unnamed Host
No. Any. No list is ever, Ever agreed upon. No list is ever universally loved.
- [55:40]
Jordan
Yeah, that. I mean.
- [55:41]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [55:41]
Jordan
Lists. I think a part of this, as a thought exercise that I've realized through doing lists like these over the years, it's like, it's meant to make. It's meant to challenge you on what you think.
- [55:55]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [55:56]
Jordan
Make you argue for things that you believe in.
- [55:59]
Unnamed Host
Well, you're. Yeah. I mean, like, at the end of the day, I mean, you're pitting egos against each other. You can always say it's about the, the content and the power. You're talking to a bunch of people that talk into Mike's for a living. It's. You're. You're basically saying, my, I'm better than you, in short, to a personality. So it's a, it's an ego check. I will say, like, understandably, whether or not, you know, justified or not, Elliot has. If anyone's gonna blow a gasket or reactivate an Instagram and crash out, 5 to 17 is fucking. That's a gut punch.
- [56:31]
Jordan
But look, we. That wasn't rage bait. All right, let me also set that disclaimer. That was not rage. Rage bait just to get a vintage Elliot Y n Crash out. That's not why we did it. Okay? There was legitimate conversation and deliberation, and not everybody was agreeing on it. And we had to. It was. There was a lot of conversation around that, obviously, because he was top five Last year and now he is at the second half of the list.
- [56:54]
Unnamed Host
Now he's bottom five.
- [56:55]
Jordan
He's not bottom five, but he's in like the actual. I guess the.
- [56:58]
Unnamed Host
He's in the middle.
- [56:59]
Jordan
The middle. Low middle, low, middle, low, middle. You know, so. But it wasn't like to. We didn't do that just to get his 12.
- [57:08]
Unnamed Host
Thirteen would be middle.
- [57:10]
Jordan
But you know, it's like we all respect what he's done it for the game. And it's like also. Yeah. To the. For the OGs who aren't on this list. Because there are definitely some OGs.
- [57:20]
Unnamed Host
Yeah.
- [57:20]
Jordan
Who aren't on this list. It's not like a slight to them or us like disrespecting their legacy. This isn't a legacy list. This is a right now list.
- [57:30]
Unnamed Host
Who was on it last year that's no longer on it.
- [57:33]
Jordan
Sway isn't on the list anymore. I think Funk Flex was on the last year. He's not on it anymore. In terms of like the og.
- [57:40]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [57:42]
Jordan
And that says nothing to who they are. Like Sway is a stamped all time legend. It's just again this year.
- [57:49]
Unnamed Host
It's just complex telling them they should retire.
- [57:51]
Jordan
No, we're saying this year it's like. It's like in the NBA when you have a new 25 best players list. Like you don't put. I don't know. I'm not trying to make a go.
- [58:02]
Unnamed Host
Ahead on an NBA. Yeah.
- [58:03]
Jordan
I'm not making an NBA comparison. But it's like we obviously respect the OGs and what they've done to make it to where we can do what we do now. Of course, as of right now, he's. He didn't crack the top 20.
- [58:16]
Unnamed Host
Got you. Well, Jorge, this was great. I do. One thing I wanted to ask. What, what, what's. What do I Venmo complex to make the list next year. Let me know what to send and how much.
- [58:26]
Jordan
We do not take. Paola.
- [58:28]
Unnamed Host
I can set it up over increments which would probably be more favorable for me. We do not take under the table, wink, wink.
- [58:36]
Jordan
None of that. I'm sorry. You know, I get enough hate on every other video I do. So if you're going to send hates me for this list, go ahead.
- [58:45]
Unnamed Host
But hate on Jordan below.
- [58:47]
Jordan
Yeah, man. I mean, look, you know, the list is always challenging. It's been challenged every single year. I. I'm happy that I. I'm happy with some of the conversations that come from it of people who, if you feel unappreciated A lot of. Like, a lot of people get their flowers if people think that they're too low on the list or they should be on the list. And I think that's important. Shout out to my brother, Gay P on the radar, who was on the list last year, isn't on the list.
- [59:10]
Unnamed Host
That's who I was. That's who was missing.
- [59:12]
Jordan
He is not on the list this year. The space got more competitive, people. It wasn't that he fell off. It was that people. He just.
- [59:21]
Unnamed Host
That's who I was. That's who I was thinking. And he was. Had a good spotlight.
- [59:25]
Jordan
Yeah, I mean, look, that's my brother Ed. You know, shout out.
- [59:28]
Unnamed Host
Gabe and Calvin.
- [59:30]
Jordan
Just shout out to the whole otr. It's a group vote. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna throw my team under the bus.
- [59:38]
Unnamed Host
There's some haters in that building.
- [59:39]
Jordan
No, no, no, nothing like that. It's just, you know, it's a vote. So.
- [59:44]
Unnamed Host
Damn.
- [59:44]
Jordan
You know, it's no. Anyone who fell off the list. It's obviously no shade. Like, there's no shade on this list. Even though I know I gotta.
- [59:52]
Unnamed Host
Well, I will say see it because I could. In. In your defense, it takes a lot of balls to not only contribute to this, work on this, but also sit in front of a camera and talk about it and be susceptible to now more criticism via comments and replies and stuff too. So kudos to you for, you know, stepping in front of the fire.
- [60:10]
Jordan
Listen, man, comes with the territory.
- [60:12]
Unnamed Host
Yeah, I appreciate your work. I'm excited to. To, you know, see obviously how hip hop shapes up in the next year and see how this list changes and whatever. I'll send you that, Venmo, and then we can talk after that. I will be on the list next year and then we'll, you know, just subliminal messaging. All right. We just had to make a quick edit. Jordan, I appreciate you, dog. Thank you again for. For pulling up. And let's next big, you know, music drop or week or whatever. Let's. This is great.
- [60:37]
Jordan
You know, we can see we can do this any other weekend.
- [60:39]
Unnamed Host
All right. Pause.
- [60:40]
Jordan
But all right.
- [60:42]
Unnamed Host
That's how I get on the list.
- [60:43]
Jordan
All right.
- [60:43]
Unnamed Host
All right, Peace. This is a bonus content episode later, y'. All.