Charli Howard: The Body Double

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Sort Your Life Out Unpacked" – Charli Howard: The Body Double

Host: Dilly Carter (BBC Sounds)
Guest: Charli Howard
Date: May 5, 2026
Duration Covered: 01:10 – 28:31

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of "Sort Your Life Out Unpacked," host and tidying expert Dilly Carter sits down with model-turned-activist Charli Howard. Together, they delve into Charli’s journey from a self-identified “messy” person to a proud collector with purpose, examining her relationship to her home and personal belongings after a childhood of constant moving. Through the unboxing of three mystery objects from Charli’s home—a box of vintage Dior makeup, a custom statue of her own body, and a magical “witch candle”—they explore themes of self-expression, body acceptance, spirituality, and the importance of making your space truly your own.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Home Truths & The Reality Behind Instagram (01:10–03:13)

• Charli’s Home Aesthetic:
  • Charli gives herself a humble “4 or 5 out of 10” for organization, admitting a habit for collecting makeup and other items she doesn’t technically need.
  • "Everyone always says I'm really messy...sometimes I've got, like, a drawer of makeup. Like, why do I have a drawer of makeup?" (Charli, 01:56)
• Online vs Reality:
  • The pair discuss how Instagram posts are an illusion; houses are only shown when tidy, and sometimes photos are even Photoshopped.
  • "It's such a reality versus Instagram type of life." (Dilly, 02:42)
  • "It's a very good reminder that not everyone's life is picture perfect." (Charli, 02:55)

2. A Personal and Feminist Home (03:21–04:20)

• Charli describes her house as “an ode to femininity,” with pink walls and art celebrating the female form, particularly referencing artist Anissa Camish’s iconic “bum vase.”
• Growing up in a military family where personalization was restricted, having her own creative, expressive space is deeply meaningful to Charli.
• "This is the first time, really, in my life at the age of 34...that I can actually, you know, do whatever I want." (Charli, 04:20)

3. Intentional Collecting and Furniture Choices (04:39–06:11)

• Charli has no bedside table, explaining she refuses to buy one she doesn’t love and prefers to wait for the perfect piece.
• Dilly encourages making do creatively: “I bet there is something in your house that you could use [as a table]… books, boxes, something.” (Dilly, 05:13)
• Takeaway: Don’t buy in a panic; let your home evolve and be selective about items so they continue to reflect you as you grow.

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The Unboxing: Objects and Their Significance

1. Vintage Dior Makeup – “Dior Princess Ring” (06:12–09:20)

• Description: Charli brings out collectible Dior makeup rings from the early 2000s, which doubled as jewelry; some even remain in their original sealed packaging.
• Emotional Value:
  • Symbolizes the empowerment of buying herself something special as a teen, after saving pocket money.
  • Collecting is both nostalgic and celebratory of her growth and financial independence.
  • Makeup, though sometimes criticized for upholding “toxic” beauty standards, can also be playful and confidence-boosting.
  • "It kind of allows you to become a different character or gives you a bit of confidence. It makes you feel good." (Charli, 08:20)
• Collecting vs Using:
  • Charli debates whether to keep them untouched as collectors’ items or use/enjoy them as intended.
  • Dilly suggests displaying them, as "it's important that you display them and you enjoy those things." (Dilly, 08:59)
• Family Contrast:
  • Charli’s mother threw things away easily, so Charli’s collecting might be a “rebellion.”
  • "Maybe that's where I get it from...I'm like, oh, yes, let me keep this receipt for this restaurant that I went to." (Charli, 09:20)

2. Silver Statue – Her Own Body Double (12:12–13:41)

• Description: Charli unveils a heavy silver statue of her own torso, made using a laser scanning/molding technique.
• Body Acceptance:
  • Creating the statue was an act of acceptance and pride, memorializing her evolving figure and symbolizing her journey toward body positivity.
  • "My body's changed so much, especially since I turned 30... But it's cool, isn't it?" (Charli, 13:22)
  • She displays it proudly in her living room, even if her father finds it odd!
• Memorable Moment:
  • "When I'm 80 and my boobs are down to my belly button, I'll look at it and be like, yeah, great. That was me." (Charli, 13:36)

3. The Witch Candle – Spiritual Protection (20:14–26:50)

• Description: A large, glittery, personalized “witch candle” from a magical New York shop, intended for luck or love, as well as protection.
• Spiritual Practice:
  • Charli describes her belief in energy and spiritual rituals—buying candles for various intentions and burning them at home.
  • "I'm quite spiritual in that way." (Charli, 21:58)
• Haunted House Story:
  • Charli shares a dramatic, humorous story about living in a flat with a possible poltergeist—strange sounds, pets acting odd, and a fan that stopped unnaturally—culminating in a cleansing ritual with sage and candles.
  • "We lit the candle, and it turned blue...it was the creepiest thing I have ever seen." (Charli, 25:29)
• Approach to Spiritual Cleaning:
  • Despite some skepticism, Charli is grateful for the ritual and says she still lights witch candles in her home for peace.

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Personal Journey: Modeling, Activism, & Body Image

The Fashion Industry Experience (13:54–18:43)

• Start in Modeling:
  • Charli recounts being scouted as a teen, facing relentless pressure to lose weight, and feeling like modeling was an “escape” from a mundane life.
  • "Every time I go in, they'd be like, 'come back once you've lost a bit of weight'...which is just a polite form of saying lose weight." (Charli, 13:56)
• Struggle and Advocacy:
  • After being dropped by agencies for her size, Charli wrote a viral Facebook post condemning the industry’s harmful standards—launching her as a body positivity advocate.
  • "I want the best for girls. I really worry about girls right now as well." (Charli, 17:50)
• Curvy Modeling and Regression:
  • Became part of the early “curve” modeling movement, but voices concerns the industry is now “regressing” on body standards.
• Changing Respect for Her Body:
  • Maturity has brought greater appreciation for her body’s resilience: "I have so much more respect...for my body...the fact that it's still going despite all the shit that I put it through." (Charli, 18:07–18:43)

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Practical Organizing Tips & Philosophy

• Selective Acquisition: Wait for the right furniture or decoration instead of “panic buying.” (05:04–05:48)
• Display Collections: Objects you love should be displayed, not hidden, to bring daily joy. (08:59–09:07)
• Home as Self-Expression: Your house should be a true reflection of who you are and what you value, rather than conforming to trends or outside expectations. (04:05–04:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's a very good reminder that not everyone's life is picture perfect." – Charli Howard (02:55)
• "This is the first time, really, in my life...that I can actually do whatever I want. And it's nice." – Charli Howard (04:20)
• "I want the best for girls. I really worry about girls right now as well." – Charli Howard (17:50)
• "When I'm 80...I'll look at [the statue] and be like, yeah, great. That was me." – Charli Howard (13:36)
• "We lit the candle, and it turned blue. It was the creepiest thing I have ever seen." – Charli Howard (25:29)
• "Your space can evolve as you evolve." – Dilly Carter (12:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Instagram vs. Reality: 01:58–02:55
• Feminist Home Aesthetic: 03:25–04:20
• Furniture Philosophy: 04:39–06:11
• Dior Makeup Unboxing: 06:27–09:07
• Statue & Body Acceptance: 12:33–13:41
• Modeling Industry Stories: 13:54–18:43
• Witch Candle Unboxing: 20:14–21:39
• Poltergeist Story & Ritual: 22:17–26:14
• Sell/Donate/Keep Game: 26:36–27:06
• Happy Place in the Home: 27:07–27:50

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The Three Objects: Keep, Donate, Sell (26:36–27:06)

• Sell: Vintage Dior makeup
• Donate: Witch candle
• Keep: Silver body statue

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Charli’s Happy Place at Home (27:07–27:50)

• Charli’s favorite spot is her “living area”—cozy, candle-lit, and filled with mood lighting and soft comforts.
• "I've got my electric blanket. I've got my candles, my witch candles...my lamps and everything...I'm going to say my living area." (Charli, 27:14)

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Closing Thought

This episode offers a warm, candid look at how personal history, activism, spirituality, and creativity converge in the home, showing that organizing is not about perfection, but about authenticity and joy.

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For more insights and organizational tips, listen to "Sort Your Life Out Unpacked" on BBC Sounds.

Transcript

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[Charlie Howard]

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[Dilly Carter]

This is Sort yout Life Out Unpacked with me, Dilly Carter. Every episode of Celebrity Guests will hand over three boxes, each containing an item from their own home. We'll unbox them together and hear plenty of memories and stories, too. Along the way, there'll be simple tips to help you sort your own life out. In today's episode, I am joined by a model turned activist who has campaigned to change unrealistic body standards within the fashion industry. She's recently renovated her first house. She's written three books. But when it comes to organization, she gives herself a very modest 4 out of 10. Maybe 5 out of 10. Please welcome the lovely Charlie Howard.

[Charlie Howard]

Yay. Thank you for having me.

[Dilly Carter]

Welcome to Sort yout Life out on Pat. Maybe a four, maybe a five.

[Charlie Howard]

I know. Well, everyone always says I'm really messy.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay.

[Charlie Howard]

I've also got a bit of a habit of kind of collecting things that I'm like, sometimes I've got, like, a drawer of makeup. Like, why do I have a drawer of makeup? I physically do not need a chest of drawers with makeup in it. But I'm like, oh, no. But I'll come back to it at some point. So I definitely need to get a bit more organized, shall we say?

[Dilly Carter]

I mean, I've seen your house on Instagram, and it looks impeccable. Well, so what am I not seeing that's going on behind the scenes?

[Charlie Howard]

Obviously, I shoot it when it is tidy, when I've got a tidy day. Like, whenever I looked at other people's houses, I thought, oh, my God, they're so tidy, you know, all that kind of thing. And it's not. It's kind of an illusion.

[Dilly Carter]

It's all an illusion.

[Charlie Howard]

Like behind the camera. It's every. You know, boxes behind the camera. Or they Photoshop the images as well.

[Dilly Carter]

Always.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah. Which I had no idea that they do.

[Dilly Carter]

Absolutely. It's incredible. And I have worked for many influencers, many people that are on Instagram and it is such a reality versus Instagram type of life. So we all do it though, don't we?

[Charlie Howard]

We all do it. We all do it. And I think it's a very good reminder that not everyone's life is picture perfect.

[Dilly Carter]

How have you left your house this morning?

[Charlie Howard]

It's 90% tidy. No, 95% tidy. Actually. I've been very good. I've been very. Like what you see on the photos of my house. That's how it's looking at the moment.

[Dilly Carter]

That is how it's looking, yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

It's actually looking very, very neat and tidy.

[Dilly Carter]

I cannot wait to see what three items you have brought in for me to unpack. But first, I'm going to ask you a few quick fire home truths.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, gosh. Okay.

[Dilly Carter]

How would you describe your home in a sentence?

[Charlie Howard]

It sounds so cringe. Just like the most cringey thing I've ever said. It's an ode to femininity. So when I chose it, I'd, you know, recently become single. It was my first house. It's just girl power. So I've got pink on the walls and I've got lots of pictures of women's bodies and statues of women's bodies. I don't know if you've heard of this woman called Anissa Camish. She's this incredible, like, she makes these incredible vases and things like that of like, the female bust.

[Dilly Carter]

Is that the one they've got? The bum vase.

[Charlie Howard]

Yes, the bum vase. So I've got bum cups. I've got bum with the bust on it. I've got cups with a bum on it. I've got. Yeah, loads of different.

[Dilly Carter]

In fact, I bought my best friend a bum v the bum vase.

[Charlie Howard]

It's great.

[Dilly Carter]

It's great.

[Charlie Howard]

Everyone should own one.

[Dilly Carter]

Everyone needs a bum vase in their life. And I love what you say about the fact that it represents yourself and what you stand for. That's the most important thing about our houses, isn't it? It should absolutely be what you want it to be.

[Charlie Howard]

Well, I think so. And actually. So I grew up in a very military family, and when you kind of moved from House to house. You weren't allowed to paint anything. You weren't allowed to put, like, blue tack on the walls. You weren't allowed to, like, paint the walls any color. So this is the first time, really, in my life at the age of 34, however old I am, that I can actually, you know, do whatever I want. And it's nice.

[Dilly Carter]

Complete the sentence. My bedside table is.

[Charlie Howard]

I actually don't have a bedside table right now. Okay, I know, because I'll tell you why I'm so anal about the things that I buy. So, like, when it comes to furniture, and I really need to get one. And every morning, it's just so annoying. I've got a cup of tea and it has to go on the floor next to me.

[Dilly Carter]

So do you have to reach down to the floor?

[Charlie Howard]

Yes. Why have I done this? I don't know why, but I just. I can't find one that I really like.

[Dilly Carter]

So you won't buy it until you find the right piece of furniture, which is really good.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah. I don't want to buy something that I'm never gonna. Or I'm gonna throw away. Like, I want pieces that I'm gonna take with me to my next place.

[Dilly Carter]

I bet if you were to look around your house, there's probably lots of things that you could use to create a bedside table. So it might be that you've got a stack of shoe boxes that could be a bedside table. It might be that you've got, I don't know, just empty boxes. Or I bet there is something in your house that you could use, but books, boxes, something that you could create a makeshift table for your tea in the morning. Because I want to. I can envision you lying in your bed beautifully with your cup of tea on the side. So that can be your mission today.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to sort it out. This has annoyed me now. I'm going to. I need to get something.

[Dilly Carter]

No, I think it's great that you. That you're pausing and that you're taking time to bite the right piece of furniture. Because so often or not, when we move into our houses, move into a new space, we just suddenly think, panic, panic, panic. Buy loads of stuff and we buy the wrong stuff. It's about doing something and buying things that feel like you. Yeah. Like your home is an extension of you.

[Charlie Howard]

It really is.

[Dilly Carter]

Which is what it should be.

[Charlie Howard]

Exactly. Oh, I love it. I love it.

[Dilly Carter]

I'm so excited. Right, with this, let's get into your first box. Oh, this is quite heavy, this box. So it's a small box, but in this small box, what have we got? Oh, wow. We've got lots of makeup.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, yes. Okay.

[Dilly Carter]

So in this box is 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. Four different bits of lady Dior. Dior makeup. But it's all sealed. All in its packaging.

[Charlie Howard]

Yep.

[Dilly Carter]

In boxes.

[Charlie Howard]

In boxes.

[Dilly Carter]

So tell me all about this makeup and why this means something to you.

[Charlie Howard]

So back in the early 2000s, when I was a teenager, very long time ago, Dior brought out wearable makeup that you could wear as jewelry as well. And I love jewelry, but it was the first time that I saved up my pocket money and bought myself an expensive bit of. Bit of makeup. These are. Yeah, Dior princess rings.

[Dilly Carter]

Dior princess rings.

[Charlie Howard]

And these were rings. Yes.

[Dilly Carter]

So these ones actually haven't got the plastic on.

[Charlie Howard]

These haven't got the plastic. These were the only ones I couldn't find with the plastic on. But when you open them, they're so cool.

[Dilly Carter]

What I have taken out of the box is this really heavy Dior ring, but it's a silver ring, and there's a flap that opens up, and inside

[Charlie Howard]

it should open these. Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

What do we call this? Like, a chunky statement ring?

[Charlie Howard]

Well, you've got a pink one, I've got a blue one, and I think. What's this one? I think one of them is lip gloss. One of them is eyeshadow. I think the blue one is eyeshadow.

[Dilly Carter]

This pink. This is like a purple.

[Charlie Howard]

Let's have a look. I haven't seen it. Look at that. God, it's so cute. I can't actually open this.

[Dilly Carter]

It's like a chunky statement ring that opens up, and then you've got your eyeliner lip gloss. Yeah. So there's two things inside. So this is obviously just for aesthetic purposes that we're keeping this because it's vintage. And, I mean, we're never gonna use this makeup. It's a collector's item.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Do you think your love of makeup and collecting vintage item is also a bit of an ode to the fact that you're a model, that you love beauty? Or is it more just about like you said? It's because when you were a child, you couldn't really afford it, and now you can. You can buy it. What do you think is the real connection to buying these vintage pieces?

[Charlie Howard]

Maybe it's a mixture of everything, because even before I was. Like, before I got into modeling, I loved makeup. Anyway, it's just, you know, it kind of allows you to become a different character or gives you a bit of confidence. It makes you feel good. I think, like, it gets a bit of a bad rep nowadays because people like old beauty standards and it absolutely can be a toxic thing. But I also think it can be fun and, you know, trying different colors or trying things that make you feel good.

[Dilly Carter]

I mean, how do you feel about opening this? Is it making you nervous? How does this collection make you feel?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm actually obsessed with these makeup rings and I really want to wear them now, but I think sometimes we focus so much on, like, monetary value and we're worried about opening them and them using. Losing their value, but actually you can just enjoy them because you like them.

[Dilly Carter]

It's one of those things, isn't it? I think when you are a collector of things, I think it's important that you display them and you enjoy those things.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

And obviously, the more that they're untouched, the more value they hold. But I think, is there a way that you can take out the makeup and you can create a glass cabinet and you can display the makeup beautifully. Did your parents collect stuff as you were growing up?

[Charlie Howard]

No, my mum is like, she will. She has no, I would say, like, emotional ties to things. So instantly in the bin thing, like, you know, cards, anything, throw away, you don't need it. Whereas I'm. And I think maybe that's where I get it from, like this kind of rebellion to that, because I'm like, oh, yes, let me keep this receipt for this restaurant that I went to.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. You know, and how was that, you know, going through your childhood, moving all those times?

[Charlie Howard]

For me, personally, I struggled with it. My sister, I think, managed quite well, but she also had me. I think she probably made things a bit easier, like, if she was going to secondary school, I was already there. You know, I was the first one, really, of my generation to do all these things on my own. So it has kind of made me very, very independent. Maybe a bit too independent sometimes.

[Dilly Carter]

Was your father quite militant in his approach to how the house was run?

[Charlie Howard]

Sometimes it looks like that no one lives there and it's so tidy. And we've said this so many times, but, like, look, you can have some things out, like, it's fine. But he is so militant. But he was in the Navy at 16, where they taught you, like, you know, you have to tidy your bed, you've got to keep your things really neat and tidy. Like, that is just how he. But he is so, so tidy.

[Dilly Carter]

Like, he's extreme.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, it's extreme. Yeah, it's extreme.

[Dilly Carter]

Everything's in perfect lines.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my gosh. Everything. Yeah, yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

And his wardrobe's immaculately organized.

[Charlie Howard]

Everything, Everything. If something doesn't need to be there, it's gone, you know, down the tip all the time. Everything.

[Dilly Carter]

But I suppose that's also, you know, it's been ingrained in him that. That constant moving. We could be going at any time.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah, you've got to be ready to go. Yeah, yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

And so do you think that's rubbed off on you in terms of how you feel about items? Do you feel that you hold onto things or do you think you're very good at letting go?

[Charlie Howard]

I'd like to become a bit more settled, I think, because I'm so used to moving that sometimes I feel like I can't relax fully. So even, like the other day I noticed myself kind of getting a bit antsy and I've been living at my house now for like two years and already I think I'm like, time to move. Time to go on. Right. Move. Time to look. I mean, I can't. I've got a mortgage to pay. But, like, you know, it's almost like that itchiness, like, I've got to go. And so I think what you can also do is come to, like, re establish yourself in your home. So, like, you can buy a new lamp or you can paint the room a different colour. Like you can constantly make it new without having. Yeah, exactly. Without having to leave. So that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

And to find your constant.

[Charlie Howard]

Yes.

[Dilly Carter]

You know, if you've been someone that's been moving throughout your life, you probably never had that real base. So I suppose that's why you also get so much joy of curating the perfect home. Because this is your base and you're not. You don't have to move, you don't have to let go of any items.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dilly Carter]

And that's probably why you don't want to let go, because you don't have to anymore.

[Charlie Howard]

I don't have to. I can make it myself.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. So like you said, your space can evolve as you evolve.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah. Okay, stay off. Right, move.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah, stay off. Right, move. I'm told your next box is quite unique, so I cannot wait to have a little look. Please pass it over. What can this be?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my God, that's heavy.

[Dilly Carter]

What is in this box?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my God, that is heavy. There we go.

[Dilly Carter]

That is heavy. So this box is a medium sized Box. And I'm opening it and. Oh, wow. Okay. So inside this box is a statue.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my gosh. My statue.

[Dilly Carter]

A statue. Oh, my God. It's so heavy.

[Charlie Howard]

It's really heavy.

[Dilly Carter]

This is a beautiful silver statue of a female torso.

[Charlie Howard]

It's my torso.

[Dilly Carter]

Wow.

[Charlie Howard]

How cool is this?

[Dilly Carter]

This is very, very cool. I wish that I would want to make a statue of my body.

[Charlie Howard]

Well, you can.

[Dilly Carter]

I absolutely would not want to.

[Charlie Howard]

No, you can. This is what's so great. You stand there n in front of these laser things or like, this machine.

[Dilly Carter]

I'm out already.

[Charlie Howard]

I know it sounds really bad, but actually it's not that scary because, I mean, they see so many women and they do so many pregnant bodies as well. And you stand there, you choose which shape you want, and then within about a couple of months, they send you back whichever metal you want. Which other. You know, some people have, like, I don't know, like, marble or they have like, a red one or purple, any color you want. And it's amazing. And. And I really like it because I was like, my body's changed so much, especially since I. I've turned 30. Really? It's, like, changing again. And the way the fat deposits sit is, like, very different. And. Yeah, I just feel like I'm like, that's my body. It's something to be ashamed about. And when I'm 80 and my boobs are down to my belly button, I'll look at it and be like, yeah, great.

[Dilly Carter]

That was me.

[Charlie Howard]

That was me. But it's cool, isn't it?

[Dilly Carter]

It's so cool. Where do you have that in your house?

[Charlie Howard]

That's actually in my living room, right in front of my tv. My dad saw it the other day, actually. He was like, oh, what's that from? I was like, oh, that's me. And he was like, oh, right.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, God. Okay, moving on.

[Charlie Howard]

Never mind.

[Dilly Carter]

Tell me how you got into modeling.

[Charlie Howard]

So my dad used to have a flat when I was about 14, 15 in Pimlico, and he would give me his Oyster card and he'd let me go out and explore London for the day and just be like, bye. So I just used to get on buses, go shopping, and he'd go to Camden or Topshop in Oxford Circus and places like that. And people would come over to you and give you their card and be like, oh, you should come in and, you know, meet us and stuff. So I do it, and I'd be so excited. And every time I go in, they'd be like, oh, you know, come Back to us. Once you've lost a bit of weight, you know, once you've toned up a bit, which is just a polite form of saying lose weight and everything. And it almost became this fantasy of a life that was so different to my own that I could actually escape to and become this more glamorous, popular version. I wasn't very cool, I wasn't very thin, I wasn't very, particularly that beautiful compared to probably other girls in my class. So I kind of thought, well, this is my escape. This is my way out of my life. Nothing happened. And then when I was about, I think I was about 21, my friend at the time sent my Facebook photos off to model agencies. I remember this moment really vividly because I was at a bus stop. I'd just been to Sainsbury's, it was pouring down with rain, the bus wasn't coming. I was literally applying to every single job. I couldn't get a job anywhere. And my university had said, don't bother coming back, basically because I just wasn't very good at my course. So I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. Like, I genuinely was really panicky. And at the time it was like, you needed to go to university to actually make something of yourself. And then literally at that bus stop, at that moment, I got a call from him saying, yeah, these agencies want to meet you. And I was like, yeah, right. I mean, it's not going to happen again. But I got signed. But again, the minute I joined, it was like, you need to turn up, you know. And I remember people saying, you're, you're fine for a normal girl, but if you want to be a model, you have to be different, you have to be thinner. And so, yeah, that, I mean, I'd kind of had eating disorders up until that moment, but this kind of gave me more of a reason to go into those eating disorders and really continue that abusive kind of self destructive behavior, you know, and then it was really weird. I, I got dropped for being too big and I wrote a Facebook post that went viral. This is a time when things weren't really going viral. I feel like every day now something's viral. Like a dog goes viral every day. Yeah, I, I moved to New York, I got picked up by an agency over there and I kind of got into this curvy modeling thing. Yeah, that was like a whole other side of modeling where it was then like, you've got to be curvier, you've got to be bigger. And this, you know, curvier bodies were kind of, you know, going on the map and becoming more noticed.

[Dilly Carter]

So what was the post that you wrote that made you go viral?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, gosh. Well, it had a few swear words in it, so we won't be repeating that on the BBC. But yeah, I basically just said, you know, the pressure that you put girls under is insane and I can't do it anymore. And I was ready. Then I was like, I'm done. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna model anymore. This is, you know, to find another job. Yeah. Work in a coffee shop or something. Wrote a Facebook post, went and had a bath, came downstairs. It got like 200 shares at the time and, you know, people were arguing with each other in the comments. And then I got an email, a Facebook message from a journalist from not a very nice newspaper. And they were like, do you want to give us a comment on this? And I was like, absolutely not. No. Like, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean it to go viral. Like, I'm sorry, I don't want this attention. And they were like, well, if you don't give us a quote, we're going to run it anyway. It was a very interesting time. But it then led to what I'm doing now, which is, you know, embracing your natural body, learning to love the body you're in. Creating statues like this one.

[Dilly Carter]

I mean. Exactly. So how big were you at the time?

[Charlie Howard]

I was about a size six to eight. Which obviously, if you're five foot two or something, that's very different to when you're five foot seven, five foot eight, like I am, and I could actually fit into jumpers that were like for 7, 8 year olds at the time.

[Dilly Carter]

And is that now what's led you into being an activist?

[Charlie Howard]

I want the best for girls. I really worry about girls right now as well. And, you know, this kind of extreme misogyny and violence that we're dealing with at the moment. But yeah, body. Body empowerment is one part of that. Definitely.

[Dilly Carter]

And has your view of modeling changed now since you're in your 20s to now being in your 30s?

[Charlie Howard]

It has definitely. I think modeling, though, has changed and fashion's changed. And I'm very honored and proud to have been part of a movement that kind of put curvier bodies on the map. I think that, you know, not many people were doing it at the time, unfortunately. I feel like we're regressing, regressing a bit. And I really hope that we continue to kind of show Those bodies. But, yeah, I just. I have a. So much more respect and maybe it's an age thing as well. I have so much more respect for my body and what it does for me and what it can do for me and the fact that it's still going despite all the shit basically, that I put it through for so long.

[Dilly Carter]

So, yeah, that's definitely an age thing as well. The older you get, the more you respect your body, the more you realise what it's put you through and what it's put up with and how it's carried you through all the different stages of life. Pain.

[Charlie Howard]

And just, you know, the fact that we've got a heart that beats 24 7, we don't even think about walking. I mean, your brain, your heart, your blood, everything is so important. And you are so much more than just a

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[Doug]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

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[Doug]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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Anyways, get a'[e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Doug]

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[Charlie Howard]

Body.

[Dilly Carter]

Your third and final item, will you please pass over the box so we can have a look?

[Charlie Howard]

Is this one heavy?

[Dilly Carter]

Let's see.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, I know what this one is. It's like Christmas.

[Dilly Carter]

I know. Isn't it Christmas for me? Although I'm sort of borrowing the gifts. I'm borrowing them. So this is the largest box that we've got. Not entirely sure what this is. Actually, it's. Oh, it smells amazing. Oh, okay. It's a candle. It's a candle, but it's wrapped in what looks like newspaper.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Are you happy for me to open this properly? Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my gosh, this is so exciting.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay, so we have got a white candle that is cut, that's like been decorated in silver glitter and pink glitter. Oh, it's got your name on it.

[Charlie Howard]

It's got your name on it and it's got a star sign.

[Dilly Carter]

And it's got your star sign. So someone made this candle for you?

[Charlie Howard]

Yes, this is a witch candle.

[Dilly Carter]

A witch candle.

[Charlie Howard]

Right. So I lived in New York for five years.

[Doug]

Holy.

[Charlie Howard]

There is a shop there and it's got these jars of herbs and herbs, as Americans say, herbs everywhere, candles, everything like that. And you go over to the lady and you go, look, this is the problem I've currently got. Could you make me candle? So they carve these candles. So I don't. I actually don't know what this one's for. I think it's for love. But they've got my star sign on it. Aries. They've got my name in it. They put like spells on it.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, my gosh.

[Charlie Howard]

And I went back from New York and I literally bought a suitcase back of these candles.

[Dilly Carter]

But you've not even lit it.

[Charlie Howard]

Not this one I haven't, but I've got another one burning at the moment and I've had ones that like, green for money or like luxury, but amazing.

[Dilly Carter]

So you go into this store, you tell them, no problem. So what were your problems at the time when you got this candle?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I always want luck, obviously. Everyone always wants luck. So I was like, you know, I want one for luck, I want one for this, one for love.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay, so you weren't in love at the time?

[Charlie Howard]

Yes. Blockages, like getting rid of any. Anything negative. I'm quite spiritual in that way.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay.

[Charlie Howard]

And I'm just obsessed with this shop now.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. I want to go to this shop and get a candle.

[Charlie Howard]

It's so cool. It's just like a witch shop. I really can't explain it. There's actually another one that I went to now. This is a very spooky story. Okay. I had a ghost.

[Dilly Carter]

Where was the ghost?

[Charlie Howard]

In my flat. I live with this couple and he was a bit strange, to be honest.

[Dilly Carter]

It's a flat share.

[Charlie Howard]

Yes, a flat share, flat share in New York that I found on Craigslist. And I went on, and she was lovely. She was such a sweet girl. And they had a little cat. So anyway, me, this couple and the cat were all living together. And this one day, I'm in the flat alone and I was putting my cereal away and I thought the guy that I lived with was stood in the doorway. So I was like, oh, hi, I didn't realize you were home. And there was no one there. But then one time I was in my room and these plates all fell out the cupboard. But you always kind of like.

[Dilly Carter]

You're just like.

[Charlie Howard]

It just fell like. I was just. Yeah, but they. But the cupboard was shut, so I was like, so how do they all fall out? I don't know. So, yeah, I was like, this is a bit weird. And then the next thing you know is the guy that I live with, he's like, I'm gonna get my girlfriend a dog. So this one day, I'm looking after Oliver the dog. I remember Oliver very well. He's very cute. Oliver would not come into my room. He just kept staring at my doorway and just looking at it and would not come in. Now, this is a dog that had been abused before. And he had a very. He was really needy. It was really sad.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. Something was scaring him.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah. And so I had this cup of tea and I said, oliver, come on. And he wouldn't come in. I was like, for God's sake. So I bend down with a cup of tea, pick up Oliver. Cause you could pick him up in your hand. And as I look in my room, I had this electric fan. And the fan just stopped. All the blades just stopped like that. It wasn't even like, you know, like if the electricity went out, the electric fan would just slowly go down. It wasn't. All the arms of this thing just went like that. And all the hairs on my neck just went up. And I was like, what the hell? And so anyway, I messaged the girl that I live with. I thought, hi. Nice bit weird, but have you had any, like, weird things happen? Because I thought I saw, you know, your boyfriend in the doorway this one day. And, you know, the plates fell out this one day. And now Oliver won't come into the room. What's going on? And she was like, oh, my God. So funny you mentioned that the girl who used to rent out your room left because we had a poltergeist.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, my gosh.

[Charlie Howard]

I was like, are you actually a poltergeist? Are you joking me?

[Dilly Carter]

Not just a ghost. Yeah, a poltergeist.

[Charlie Howard]

Poltergeist. I put down my 3 months rent or whatever. I can't leave. I don't have the money to leave and I've got this to deal with. Anyway, from then on, things started getting really weird and weird and weird. So two mirrors fell down at the same time in the kitchen. I remember running out of my room. They ran out of their room this one evening. And we just looked and the mirrors were like smashed on the Floor. And we were like, what just happened? Yeah. But then I thought, maybe it's the cat. Maybe the cat jumped in the mirror. I don't know. But, like, how could it do two at once? I don't know. So that was a really creepy thing. Honest to God. And it always felt like there was something in my room where something was just staring at me the entire time. I go to another witch shop. Not this witch shop, another witch shop. And I walk in, and I was like, hi. I was like, I know this is a very strange thing to say, but I was like, I think we have a spirit in our house, and I'd like to get rid of it. And he was like, you have a demon. And I thought, that's the last thing I need is a demon. I do not need a demon.

[Dilly Carter]

That's the last thing I need.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah, as a demon. Anyway, I left. I had no money anyway, but I remember leaving this place with about $60 worth of stuff. He gave me a cross candle, and he said to me, you need to go to a Catholic church and get some oils to sprinkle around your house. And I thought, I'm not going. I was like, I already feel as nuts, like, already as it is. Like, maybe I am just going a bit crazy. Maybe I'm just a bit sleep deprived. I'm now not going to go to a church and say the whole thing again.

[Dilly Carter]

No.

[Charlie Howard]

So that night, we were stood there in my room, and I explained what we had to do. And I was like, we need to get the sage. Light the sage and put it around every single corner. We need to open the windows and tell the spirit to leave. We need to open the front door, let the thing leave. So we lit the candle. I'm not joking. I've never seen anything like. And this is like. I was like, I'm leaving. I do not. I'm not staying anymore. We lit the candle, and it turned blue. It was the creepiest thing I have ever seen. The next thing you know is books fell down in her room. She was, like, holding Oliver, and we were both just like, this is so scary. We're both, like, trembling, like, being like, please leave. If there's anyone here, can you please go now?

[Dilly Carter]

Gosh. So has that made.

[Charlie Howard]

Juices are looking at me like, you are mentally unwell.

[Dilly Carter]

So has that made you more spiritual now?

[Charlie Howard]

Ye. Now I'm like, I'm getting the candle out now.

[Dilly Carter]

You're safe now.

[Charlie Howard]

I'm safe. I've got the candles going.

[Dilly Carter]

Books are staying where they should be.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah. Things aren't being thrown.

[Dilly Carter]

No. Thank goodness for that. Right after that, I think we need some light relief. We have seen and heard about all your items. Thank you. If you had to, which would you sell, donate and keep? So what would you sell?

[Charlie Howard]

Sell? Probably the makeup. The vintage makeup.

[Dilly Carter]

Sell the vintage makeup. What would you donate, mate?

[Charlie Howard]

Does anyone want a candle?

[Dilly Carter]

Probably a witch candle.

[Charlie Howard]

A witch candle. It could help someone. Let's do the witch candle because someone. It might come in. Use.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay, we're gonna donate the witch candle.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay. We're gonna keep the bus.

[Charlie Howard]

We're keep the bus. Because maybe no one really wants my naked body. Well, actually, some weird person might.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, no one knows it's your body, do they?

[Charlie Howard]

It's also very special.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

And it's very unique to me.

[Dilly Carter]

Yes.

[Charlie Howard]

Yes. So, yeah, we're gonna keep that one. Yeah. We'll donate the candle.

[Dilly Carter]

Donate the candle. Yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dilly Carter]

Thank you so much. And my last question to you, where in your home is your happy place?

[Charlie Howard]

My happy place in my home is definitely my living. I would say living room, but living area, it's just snuggly. I've got my electric blanket. I've got my candles, my witch candles. I've got my normal candles. I've got my lamps and everything. Yeah. I'm going to say my living area.

[Dilly Carter]

Lovely. I mean, how many candles do you have?

[Charlie Howard]

A lot. That is another obsession. I do like a posh candle.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Who doesn't love a posh candle?

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, it just makes you feel very. Just, you know, bougie.

[Dilly Carter]

Are you mood lighting or bright lights?

[Charlie Howard]

Mood lighting. Yeah, yeah, mood lighting, definitely.

[Dilly Carter]

I love a mood lighting. Just candle lights. Lovely.

[Charlie Howard]

It's just snugly. It's just like a really. Yeah. Lovely soft space.

[Dilly Carter]

So, I mean, what you're gonna do when you go home, though, is hunt for your bedside table.

[Charlie Howard]

No, that's. Honestly, that is what I'm gonna do when I. Yeah, I have to get one.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Charlie Howard]

I'm actually. Yeah. I've annoyed myself.

[Dilly Carter]

And then look for a vintage cabinet.

[Charlie Howard]

And look for a vintage cabinet to

[Dilly Carter]

display your beautiful things.

[Charlie Howard]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Because when we love things, we display them. Yes, that's true. Yes. I want you to enjoy that beautiful vintage makeup.

[Charlie Howard]

Oh, thank you. You know, I will, I will.

[Dilly Carter]

Good. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been so lovely to talk to you and learn all about you and, you know, find out about all of these lovely things, which, I mean, ghosts.

[Charlie Howard]

Very random. I feel like there's a mixture.

[Dilly Carter]

I hope I'm gonna sleep tonight.

[Charlie Howard]

There's something for everyone who's listening.

[Dilly Carter]

Thank you so much for coming. It's been a joy than.

[Charlie Howard]

Thank you so much.

[Dilly Carter]

Thank you. I can't wait to be back with you. For more revealing home truths, organizational hacks and celeb unboxings, sort your life out. Unpacked is presented by me, Dilly Carter. You can watch us on iplayer and listen on BBC Sounds. And don't forget to subscribe on BBC Sounds and have push notifications turned on to make sure you don't miss an episode.

[Danny Robbins]

Hello, it is Danny Robbins here. For years now on Uncanny, we have explored real people's potentially paranormal experiences. But one thing that listeners have often asked me is why don't we look at supernatural cases from the past? You asked and we listened. Our new series, Uncanny Cold Cases, takes a deep dive into into some of these stories. From the most haunted house in England to the original UFO abduction case. Can we make sense of these strange stories that have haunted history? Uncanny Cold Cases listen on BBC Sounds.

[Liberty Mutual Advertisers]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Doug]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Advertisers]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Doug]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Advertisers]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Doug]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.