← Sort Your Life Out Unpacked
Sort Your Life Out Unpacked
Elizabeth Day: The Cigarette Case
00:26:58
What will Dilly discover when she unpacks three items from Elizabeth Day?
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This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
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And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.
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Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
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Anyways, get a quote@libertymutual.com or with your local agent. Liberty. Liberty.
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Liberty.
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Liberty. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. This is Sort yout Life Out Unpacked with Me, Dilly Carter. Every episode, a celebrity guest will hand over three boxes, each containing an item from their own home. We'll unbox them together and hear plenty of memories and stories, too. Along the way, there'll be simple tips to help you sort your own life out. My guest this episode is basically the queen of podcasting. She's been showing us since 2018 we can mess up in a million ways and that it's okay to do so. But given that she rates herself a nine and a half out of ten when it comes to being organized, I'm going to guess she doesn't fail at clearing her clutter. It is, of course, the incredible how to Fail. Host, broadcaster and author Elizabeth Day. Oh, dear Elizabeth. Nine and a half out of ten. Are you coming for my job now?
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A
I'm really regretting saying that because it sounds so smug.
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B
No, it's good. I like that confidence.
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I am really organised. And the thing is, because I do a lot of different things, I do have to be super organized because I have to get into different mindsets. Whether I'm preparing for a podcast interview or I'm writing a book. I have to be hyper organized. And I also love sleep.
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Yes.
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So timing is important so that I get into bed so that I get eight hours.
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Do you know what? People don't realize how being organized affects our sleep. And sleep is our most important commodity. So if everything in your house is unsettled, if you are feeling like you are living in chaos, it affects our sleep because you've got this to do list in your head that you need to tick off.
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I completely agree. And I think there is something so psychologically important about walking into the bedroom and knowing that it is a place for rest.
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You know that feeling when you go on holiday and you walk into a hotel room and you're like, ah. You have that deep breath. And the reason that we love that feeling is because of that calm, because there is nothing around. There's no clutter, there's no chaos, there's no piles of clothing, there's no piles of books. It's just pure, unadulterated bliss. I cannot wait to see what you've brought in. But first, I'm going to ask you a few quick fire home truths. How would you describe your home in a sentence?
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Calm, sanctuary, safety and peace. Wow. Okay, that's not a complete sentence. But don't judge me for the lack of verb.
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What's one thing in your house you think you should get rid of?
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I think that there are quite a lot of mugs.
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Yes.
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That I don't technically need, but do I want them Dilly? I do. So there's probably a fair amount of decluttering to do in the mug area.
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What is the one thing about your home you're most proud of?
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I'm really proud of the fact that Justin and I created it together, that we have it and it represents so much for me. You know, Justin and I got married in 2020, and it's a second marriage for both of us. And so we went through a lot of really bruising, emotional years before we found each other. And then to have a chance to build a partnership and reflect that in how you also decorate your home or how you are in it. And I think that we are very good at compromising when it comes to taste. I'm someone who historically had a love of a knickknack and a trinket, and he's someone who really admires the simplicity and minimalism of Japanese design.
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Okay.
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And so coming together, there were definitely moments where we had to compromise, both of us, but we were so willing to do that.
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And does that mean if he's got a love of Japanese, that he's Marie Kondo'd his pants?
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I'll have to ask him. I'm not sure that his pant drawer is something that Marie Kondo would be proud of.
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Right. I can't wait anymore. I need to see what's in Your first box. So would you please hand it over to me so I can unpack what is in there?
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There you go.
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So let's see. Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. Okay. I wasn't expecting this. I don't know why. It felt heavy, like it was an object. Obviously this is an object, but it's a big, juicy book. Yes, It's Bonfire of the Vanities. Tell me about this book.
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A
So this book is special to me for a multitude of reasons. It's an extraordinary novel. It's epic. It's personal, in resonance. It tells the story of sort of masters of the universe on Wall street making millions. And I first read it when I first went to America in my early 20s to visit a friend of mine who was studying out there. And at that time, I was a young journalist, but I knew that I wanted to write books, and I couldn't really work out how to make the leap. And I read this book, and Tom Wolf is a former journalist turned novelist. And it made me understand how I could use my journalistic skills because the way that he writes is it's incredibly wonderful and reported. I'd never read anything like it. I just found it so buzzy and refreshing and brilliant. And when I first met Justin, my now husband, we got chatting about our passions and the bonfire, the Vanities came up. And for my 40th birthday, which was the first birthday that we had spent together as a couple, this was part of his present to me. And it is signed by Tom Wolf.
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Yeah, I've just opened it up as you were talking, and I thought, I wonder if it's signed. I actually also thinking, I wonder if Justin wrote in it.
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No, that would ruin the value.
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That would ruin the value, would it?
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Absolutely.
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Don't sign in it, Justin. Yeah, I would be useless because I would be like straight away, you know, writing a whole essay to resell it.
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I'm not putting it on ebay or anything like that, but it I love. As you identify the heft of it.
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Yeah, it's a really meaty, heavy book, isn't it?
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And. And that it feels appropriate to me because it's had such a sort of meaty impact on my life.
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Yeah, I mean, it's super meaty, super heavy. I mean, I love a hardback book. I love actually a book. I'm not a Kindle reader. I like to have to have.
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I love hearing that dilly. Because you think decluttering expert think, oh, get rid of your books. Just get it on Kindle.
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But no, absolutely against that. No, I actually love the chaos of a bookshelf. You'd be surprised to know that's why I don't.
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There's no color coding. There's no alphabetization coding.
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I can't be friends with people that color code their books.
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I'm so glad you said that because
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I'm so glad you don't do that.
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I know that I am friends of people who kind of go there, but it's like no shade.
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It's actually, you know, I don't not like people that colour code their books. Just for clarity. Let's talk about you and Justin and how much stuff did you both bring to your house that you now share? Was it hard? Was there a lot of stuff? Did you have to reduce a lot of your stuff or did you find that a real struggle?
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Such a good question. Actually, there wasn't that much stuff. And that's partly because we'd both been through divorces. I had rented with my ex and when things ended, I left almost everything. I was like, all I need is a bag of clothes and the things that I know are mine and that are very meaningful to me. But I left with barely anything. Like physical objects I suddenly realized were not important.
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Was it like shedding?
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It was like shedding and it was so liberating. It was terrifying. And it was also liberating because I'd always been someone who was so attached. And so that was a really wonderful opportunity because we had space to decide how we wanted our home to look and feel.
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Yeah. And to start building together.
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Yes.
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Like creating that capsule amount of stuff together rather than just. Yeah. Bringing stuff from the past. So actually starting fresh is so cathartic, isn't it?
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Hugely.
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Right. Thanks for sharing your beautiful book. Let's move on to your second box.
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Here we go.
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Let's see what is in the second box. Oh, I mean, this is super cute. So I have got the most beautiful big brown eyes staring out at me. And this is a lovely. Looks like a very old teddy bear. Not only is he brown and has these lovely brown ey. And that lovely worn look that only a teddy bear that you've had for years has, but he's got the cutest little waistcoat on this. Check. Waistcoat, which is a little bit worn around his arms, which feels like he's been quite active. And he's worn away his waistcoat because he's been so pulled around. Did someone make this bear number one? And did someone make his waistcoat number two?
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I made his waistcoat when I must have been about 8 or 9. So that waistcoat is 40 years old.
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So tell me who this is and why he's so special.
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Thomas. Even him looking at me makes me so emotional.
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Thomas.
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Thomas is my bear from when I was the age of four.
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Okay.
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And he's obviously deeply special to me for that reason alone. But I remember it's probably one of my earliest memories. I was born and spent the first four years of my life in Epsom, Surrey. And one day my father drove home from work and he, at the time, drove a Mini Cooper.
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Yeah.
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And there in the passenger seat of that Mini was this bear with a seatbelt over his front. And my dad had given me a bear. He'd found a bear in a shop that he was just like, this is for you.
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Yeah.
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And I was so touched by it. It's probably one of the best presents I've ever been given. But I was specifically touched with the fact that the seatbelt had been there. You know, he was safely.
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He'd taken the care.
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Yes. And at that time, Thomas didn't have his waistcoat. That was a later addition. But I named this bear after my father, who is also called Thomas. And the reason Thomas is so special to me is obviously his origin story. But then a few months after I turned four, we actually moved from Epsom to the north of Ireland, where my father had got a job as a surgeon at Atna Galvin Hospital in Derry. And at the time, that part of the world was quite a tough place to live. It was at the height of the Troubles, and to be a girl with an English accent was slightly strange. And most people thought that I was part of a military family, which, of course, I wasn't. And at primary school, that was fine. I had a really nice experience. But Thomas came with me through that. So he was my security, along with my parents and my sister.
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Yes. Yeah.
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But Thomas would be in bed with me every single night. And then when I went to secondary school, I didn't have a very good time, and Thomas helped me through that as well. And I ended up leaving that school halfway through the academic year, and I got a scholarship to. To a boarding school in England. And every single trip I ever went on, I would pack him, too. And I remember I would often pack him at the very top of the bag or I'd have him poking out of my rucksack because I wanted him to be able to breathe and to see the world and to experience the trip. And I didn't want him to feel just like another object, because for me, obviously, he was like one of my greatest friends and still is. And so he was with me through all of that, right up to university. He would be on my bed. And then I think, yes, when I got married, I was like, I think it's time to put Thomas elsewhere. But to this day, he sits on my dressing table in our bedroom. So he's still there, sort of watching over me.
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He's just not on the bed, but he's on the dressing table.
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Yes.
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What was your childhood like in Ireland?
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It was a curious mix because obviously as a child you don't think to question where you find yourself because you don't have enough agency. So, on the one hand, we lived in beautiful countryside, so we lived about half hour's drive from Derry. And that was a really sort of outdoorsy childhood. Like, I would go on cycle rides on my own for hours. I kind of explore overgrown rhododendron bushes and streams and rivers, and I'd just go and find a quiet spot to read books. And we had a donkey and four sheep and a cat. And so it was very rural and outdoorsy and adventurous. And then in the city, to get to school, we would always go through a military checkpoint with an armored vehicle and soldiers with AK47s. And it was sort of a strange.
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That must have been quite scary disconnect as well.
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Bits of it were quite scary. I remember every marching season, so I'm sure your listeners will know this, but there are some very contentious dates in the Irish calendar and people still take to the streets to march. There were a lot of Orange Order marches and you'd see kind of men in balaclavas often on the TV news. And when I thought of monsters under my bed, it was terrorists. And I remember vividly, sort of shopping centers being empty because of bomb scares. And when I went to my secondary school in Belfast, I would get the bus back at weekends. I was a weekly boarder there. And the bus station was behind the Europa Hotel, which became known as the most bombed hotel in Europe, famously. And I remember once vividly, a bomb had gone off on the Friday night, and I was going home on the Saturday and I walked past the Europa Hotel and every single window was shattered. And I was walking past this, like these mangled skeletons of cars.
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Wow.
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To get the bus home to this rural idol. So it was a. It was a strange experience, but I didn't question it until years later. And, yeah, it's only really recently that I've understood that that was a difficult thing to Go through.
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And did Thomas come with you to boarding?
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Yes, he did, yeah. Yes, he was on my bed every day, night. So again, that was very important for me to have that reassurance.
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Yeah. Especially when you're going through so much.
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Yes. And I also think the other thing with teddy bears and soft toys generally is that they smell of home.
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And has Thomas been washed?
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Yes. And that used to be equally traumatizing as a child when my mother was like, right, we need to wash th. And she'd put him in the washing machine and there's a photograph of me just. I would sit opposite the washing machine looking at him, being around, watching him for the entire cycle. And then he'd come out and it would take a long time for him to dry, so he'd have to sort of be propped on a radiator until he dried out. And then he did look very spic and span and handsome. But he. Because he doesn't get as much wear and tear now. Yeah, I haven't washed him recently.
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Yeah, it's very clean. But he looks as a bear should of that age, doesn't he? Yes. And I think what's lovely as well is when we have things that are special that you do look after them, because when we love things, we look after them, and that is very important. And there's actually a charity nowadays that you go and donate your bears to and they then get sold and they raise money. They can then be loved by somebody else. And that's a really lovely idea as well for people that, you know, don't want to keep 200 teddies, but want to keep, you know, a couple, then the ones that they donate can then become someone else's special bear. So I think it's nice, isn't it, to give a bear bearer home? Let's get into your third and final item. Will you please pass over the box and I'll unpack? Oh, okay. Well, this is the smallest box and it's very light.
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Yeah.
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So we've gone like from the heaviest down to the lightest. So this is interesting. Oh, gosh. I know this is going to be. This looks like it's going to be hugely sentimental.
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Yes.
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So what I have in front of me is the most beautiful and I'm going to say silver. It is silver. It looks to me like it's. Is it a cigarette case?
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It is, exactly. If you press it, it's the first cigarette case. There we go.
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Wow. Oh, my gosh. So inside this cigarette case there are initials which say WH and underneath it says Cairo. Does that say 1940?
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Yes.
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Yeah, 1940-44. Which have been beautifully engraved. And actually the etching, the engraving is so well done, isn't it? It's so detailed. So tell me all about this beautiful cigarette case because it is so chic.
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A
Thank you. It's so lovely hearing you describe it.
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B
Oh, thank you.
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A
There's something very moving about hearing someone else describe an object that means so much to you. This is my grandfather's cigarette case.
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B
Okay.
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So the grandfather who used to keep every single copy of the Times in his study.
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Amazing. Yeah.
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Was an amazing man and someone I feel so lucky to have been related to, to have in my life. He taught me so much. He taught me the importance of kindness. He was an incredibly kind person as well as being a self starter and a massive success story. So he grew up in Grimsby in a terraced house with an outdoor toilet and no one in his family had ever been to university. And he managed to get a scholarship to the local grammar school and then a scholarship to Cambridge to read Modern languages.
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B
Wow.
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A
And from there he became a diplomat and he joined the League of Nations. And when he was in Geneva on a posting, he met the woman who had become my grandmother, who was Swiss. And shortly after they met, he was posted to Cairo during the Second World War and they conducted their friendship and then love affair via letter and telegram. So my grandmother was in Switzerland and my grandfather was in Cairo, and in between them was occupied Europe. So they fell in love through writing, ultimately. And eventually he proposed to my grandmother via telegram and she said yes, via telegram.
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B
Oh, my God.
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And then he said, oh, what kind of engagement ring would you like? I was thinking this kind. And he drew a little design and she drew a design and the letters crossed and it was the same ring that they had both designed. So it's the most extraordinary. It's giving me chills talking about it. The most extraordinary love story. And having agreed to marry this man who she'd met once in person, my Granny Isabel had to travel across occupied Europe, through many Nazi occupied countries to be with my grandfather in Cairo. And they got married in Cairo Cathedral in, I think it was 1943. And they were together for well over 50 years, had two children, had an incredible marriage, and inspired me so much in so many ways. So this cigarette case dates from that time and that's why it's so important to me. And when my grandfather sadly died, I called him Popper. That was the one thing that I really wanted of his. And so it sleeps next to me every night, actually on my bedside table. That's where I keep it, because it reminds me of him, but it also reminds me of the story of their love affair, without which I wouldn't exist.
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How do you think your grandfather has influenced you?
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I think valuing kindness as a deeply important characteristic is huge. But he also really encouraged me to write stories and he also encouraged me to read and to think and to engage with the world. And also the way that I saw him be a supportive partner to Granny and ditto, vice versa. They both supported each other and were very complimentary. That was a sort of dovetailed relationship rather than being two peas in a pod. They each had different strengths and skills. So it also taught me about the
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value of relationships and what you want in love.
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Yes, yes. Now that is a whole other podcast because it took me a long time to find someone who embodied those qualities. And Justin is so kind and so full of integrity, and it's the most important thing. And I wish my grandparents could have met him because they would have loved him, but I feel that in a way, they brought him to me.
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B
I mean, that's incredibly amazing. That's so special, isn't it? And actually on that topic of, you know, the fact that your grandfather inspired you to write, I mean, you've written 10 of the most incredible books and you've openly talked about your fertility struggles. I've also had fertility struggles myself. And while I was on holiday, I read your book Friendaholics. I really took something from it, which actually I've written down and I'd love to read that out for you, which I hope you don't mind. No. Dearly so honored because I read it and this is what I took from it. So I think the impact that your grandfather's had on you and your writing and your power behind what you write, and I don't know if you'll ever think, I don't know how you're going to take this, but I really hope it lands well. In one of the books that you wrote, when your clinician Alexandra, told you in Greece that you had a heart shaped wound womb, I instantly thought, yes, of course you have. You have. Because one heart wasn't enough. And the love that you give others, the mothering you show, which comes in so many ways, and I know this because I'm adopted, and being a mother doesn't necessarily mean born from a womb. My mothering came from my adopted mother, my neighbor and my friends through my life. So your heart shaped womb was given to you because it allows you to share your love and motherly traits to your friends, your stepchildren, and the thousands of people you converse with and positively impact every day. That's why you were given it. And although I can't ever imagine how heartbreaking it is that it didn't give you what you want, it gave you something that you share in abundance, which is that motherly love, that friendaholic trait. And that is why you have two heart shaped organs.
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A
That's one of the most beautiful things that anyone has ever written for me. And I can't thank you enough.
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B
Well, I just, I read Friendaholics and I was like, oh my gosh, thank
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A
you so much for taking the time to do that and to know that it spoke to you, that book and knowing everything that you have been through and you know, you are the essence of strength through vulnerability. For me, the way that you share, I think is so powerful and so necessary for other people to feel seen in your experience. And so for you to feel seen in my words is like the ultimate gift for me. I can't thank you enough.
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B
Well, I just thought sometimes, obviously as a writer, I know that you write so many incredible books, but you know, like you were saying about your granddad and the impact he had on you and the way that he's taught you, you know, love and what you want and what you've got with Justy and what you've created. I read that and I thought, gosh, you've been through so much. But as soon as I read those words about having this heart shaped womb, I just then went into this spiral, oh my gosh, this is exactly what it means for you. And I just thought I have to tell her that when I see you. So I hope it was, wasn't, you know, out of turn, but yeah, I
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A
wanted you to know that. And I'm so moved by it. And I've actually never thought of it like that myself.
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B
Good.
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A
Thank you so much, Dilly.
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B
Good.
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A
Wow.
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B
Good.
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A
You're such a beautiful person. That's really blown me away. Thank you so much.
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B
So we have seen and heard about your items and I know on this occasion that this question is a little wild, but if you had to, which would you sell? Donate.
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A
I would sell the Tom Wolfe book. Oh, okay, Listen, I have to do. Yeah, donate and keep. Oh my God, that's so cruel. Sorry.
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B
From highs to lows.
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A
I just, I don't think I could donate Thomas. I'm going to have to keep Thomas.
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B
Okay.
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A
And Obviously, in real life, I'm going to keep the cigarette case. But for the purposes of this game, let's just hypothetically say that were I to donate it, it would run raised some enormous sum of money.
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B
Yes.
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A
For some charity that had great meaning for my grandfather. He suffered from macular degeneration in later life. So maybe it would raise money for macular degeneration research or for the RNIB or something like that. So that's how I'm squaring it with myself.
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B
Okay, well done. Well done. That's good. And my last question to you, where in your home is your happy place?
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A
On my bed. With my cat. Huxley. Yes. With my husband Justin.
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B
And Justin.
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A
And we'll put him in there, too, on a weekend morning where there's nowhere to go to, nowhere to be with a slice of toast with butter and Marmite on it and a mug, a perfect mug of jasmine tea and maybe something on my laptop that we're watching in bed. And it's just sort of indulgent and safe and happy and content. That's my happy place.
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B
It sounds absolutely perfect. Thank you, Elizabeth. Honestly, thank you so much. It's been such a joy to sit with you.
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A
It's been a real honor to sit with you, Dilly. And I am so moved by everything you said to me and everything that you do and everything that you are. I've loved it.
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B
Thank you. I can't wait to be back with you for more revealing home truths, organizational hacks and celeb unboxings, sort your life out. Unpacked is presented by me, Dilly Carter. You can watch us on iplayer and listen on BBC Sounds. And don't forget to subscribe on BBC Sounds and have push notifications turned on to make sure you don't miss an episode. On BBC Radio 4. That has changed my life in a way I didn't anticipate.
- [27:35]
A
A new series of astonishing true stories. It felt like I was part of a gangster movie. I was being beaten up in a gangster movie. And it suddenly hits you, my goodness, I might not survive this. Transformative experiences and extraordinary consequences. I just thought I can do absolutely anything. You just feel invincible. Join me, Dr. Sian Williams for Life
- [28:00]
B
Changing from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sound.