Kerry Katona: Bras and Business

Summary

Sort Your Life Out Unpacked: Kerry Katona – Bras and Business

Podcast: Sort Your Life Out Unpacked
Host: Dilly Carter (BBC Sounds)
Episode: Kerry Katona: Bras and Business
Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and candid episode, organization expert Dilly Carter sits down with Atomic Kitten star and TV personality Kerry Katona. Through the unboxing of three personal items from Kerry’s home—a bra, a Filofax, and pajamas—the pair delve into Kerry’s family life, her career evolution, struggles with public perception, and her unfiltered approach to motherhood and self-acceptance. The episode is equal parts humour, honesty, and practical decluttering wisdom, offering both heart and practical takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Blended Family Chaos and Home Life

• Kerry describes her home as chaotic but filled with love, thanks to a blended and busy family (00:52–02:52).
  • "Friday to Monday is just pure carnage in the house… but I wouldn't have it any other way. Let's add a few more!" — Kerry (02:13)
• She admits she can't relax in a messy room and often isolates herself until she can tidy up:
  • "I can't be in a room unless it's clean because it messes my head up." — Kerry (02:31)

Kerry’s Quick-fire House & Family Reflections

• Dilly asks Kerry to describe her home in one sentence:
  • "Love… All my children know they're loved and that's all that matters. The people you're with is your home." — Kerry (03:06)
• On the room she’d rather guests avoid:
  • "The office. It's kinda turned into a laundry room. It's just boxes everywhere." — Kerry (03:52)

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Mystery Object 1: The Bra – Self-Expression and Business

• Kerry immediately owns the moment, joking about her bra being a "hammock" and describing the liberation in removing it when she gets home (04:32–05:19).
  • "There's no better feeling than just letting them hanging loose and tripping over your nipples on way downstairs." — Kerry (05:20)
• She shares a candid account of how returning to glamour modelling roots and OnlyFans during lockdown supported her kids, challenging stigmas around her choices:
  • "Because of OnlyFans, I've been able to give my children amazing adventures... I'm crying in a Lamborghini on the way back from private education." — Kerry (06:30)
• Points out the gendered double standard in how her career choices are seen:
  • "Is it because I'm a woman and because I'm in control of it all?" — Kerry (06:55)
• On possessions and moving homes—Kerry estimates she’s lived in "over 300, maybe 400 houses" and describes herself as unsentimental and focused on the present (07:24–08:16).
  • "The older I've got, I just think: get rid, get rid, get rid." — Kerry (07:59)
• She admits to overcompensating for her past by gifting her children too much but says they’re humble and grounded (08:16–08:32).
• On her children entering similar careers, she’s adamant:
  • "No, no, no, don't do OnlyFans. I wouldn't allow it… Absolute no." — Kerry (09:21)
• They call Ewan, a cleaning expert, to settle how often bras should be washed—every three to four wears, with caveats about damaging bras by over-washing (10:46–11:10).

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Mystery Object 2: The Filofax – Organizing Life by Hand

• Kerry shares her organizational style: despite the digital age and her dyslexia, she clings to her Filofax:
  • "If it's not in that Filofax, it won't get done." — Kerry (12:49)
  • "I'm definitely a visual person… that's how I work it out in my head." (13:09)
• Parenting multiple children of different ages has taught her adaptability, patience, and the persistent ache of “mum guilt” (13:21–14:34).
  • "It's that mum guilt… My mistakes are automatically their burdens." — Kerry (14:30)
• On her varied career in reality TV—from "I’m A Celebrity" to "SAS"—she remains grateful:
  • "I'm just this kid who got clothes off a car boot sale and next thing you know, I'm doing SAS." — Kerry (15:04)
  • “As a person, for me, it’s always going to be I’m a Celebrity… I just didn’t do it well, that’s all I can be.” (15:25)
• On Atomic Kitten days, the transition to fame, and surviving the scrutiny of her non-traditional background (15:43–17:13).
  • "You just want to go on stage and perform… you're never gonna be prepared, especially to be singled out with all the skeletons in her closet." — Kerry (16:57)
• The hardest public criticism:
  • "I'm a terrible mum. My kids should be taken off me. That's always been a real tough one because I was taken off my own mum." — Kerry (17:29)

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Mystery Object 3: Pajamas – Comfort and Connection

• Kerry’s love affair with pajamas underscores her prioritization of comfort and home (19:57–20:09).
  • "I live, live in pajamas. As soon as I get in the house, bras off, pyjamas on, my slippers, housecoat… I could never sit in my house in a pair of jeans." — Kerry (20:03)
• She confesses to owning 40+ pairs, most of which are stored haphazardly:
  • "They're on pool table. I told you… recent clothes I've been wearing are in the pool table." — Kerry (21:07)
• Some pajamas have significant history—her nan’s, and the nightie she wore giving birth:
  • "One of them is my nan’s, she passed away in it, and the nightie I gave birth to DJ in… I won't get rid of that." — Kerry (22:46)
• Despite her unsentimental approach overall, these few items carry irreplaceable meaning.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On letting go of possessions and her childhood instability:
  • "I've lived in over 300 homes, maybe 400… I just want to settle… I've never really settled." — Kerry (07:24)
• On stigma of OnlyFans and taking control:
  • "Is it because I'm a woman and because I'm in control of it all?" — Kerry (06:55)
• On mum guilt:
  • "I've always tried to overcompensate in so many different things… My mistakes are automatically their burdens." — Kerry (14:19–14:30)
• On what she’d keep, donate, sell:
  • "I'd sell me bra, keep my Filofax, and donate my jamas." — Kerry (24:35)
• On her happy place:
  • "My living room. When all five kids are home… I look at my kids, I think, that's my brood. They're the best five parts of me I've ever made." — Kerry (24:49)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:09 – Kerry on family chaos and cleaning
• 03:06 – How Kerry defines home: “Love”
• 04:32 – The infamous bra: comfort and self-expression
• 06:30 – OnlyFans, public judgement, and supporting her children
• 07:24 – Reflections on transience and letting go of the past
• 10:46–11:10 – How often should you wash a bra? (with cleaning expert Ewan)
• 12:49–13:09 – Filofax and organizing without digital tools
• 14:30 – Mum guilt and burdens on her children
• 15:04–17:13 – Surviving fame, scrutiny, and the 'Atomic Kitten' years
• 20:03–21:25 – The pyjama mountain, storage issues, and sentimental keepsakes
• 22:46–23:17 – Family keepsakes: her nan's and DJ's birth nightie
• 24:35 – What Kerry would keep, donate, and sell
• 24:49 – Her happy place: the living room when the family is together

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Organizational Takeaways

• Even celebrities with big personalities and hectic lives need structure and sentimental grounding.
• Decluttering isn't just about tidying—it's about deciding what memories and comfort mean most.
• Practical tip: Give everything a place (even if it’s “just renting”); organization brings daily relief.
  • "When everything's got a place, it's easier... The most important thing is to get it organized." — Dilly (22:14)
• Don't underestimate the emotional weight of some belongings—honouring those can help in letting others go.

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, unfiltered, and often hilarious—Kerry brings her trademark wit and openness, matched by Dilly’s warmth and practical wisdom. Listeners gain real insight into both the struggles and joys of a high-profile life, punctuated with actionable organizing advice.

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For anyone who wants to understand Kerry Katona beyond the headlines—or just needs a good laugh and some reassurance that even celebs have laundry mountains—this episode is unmissable.

Transcript

[Tyler West]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

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[Dilly Carter]

I'm Dilly Carter, the organized one, and this is Sort yout Life Out Unpacked. Get ready to unpack three boxes with my celebrity guest. Every box has an item from their own home, plus a load of stories and memories. And stand by for my tips on how to sort your own life out too. You might feel that you already know today's guest with so many things that have been written about her in the press over the years, but you've got to hear it direct from this Atomic kitten star and TV personality to know who she really is. So let's do just that and welcome the wonderful, the gorgeous Kerry Katona.

[Kerry Katona]

I love my. Love it.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh my gosh. I feel like already I want to be your best friend and sit here all day with you. I love you.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah, we could chat all day.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, you are in the right place to talk because there is so much to talk about. Like we were just discussing. You know, your gorgeous partner Paolo is here with you and you now have a lovely blended family living in your house.

[Kerry Katona]

I do.

[Dilly Carter]

Tell me about that chaos.

[Kerry Katona]

So My eldest is 24, 23, 19. About turn 18 and 12, my elder two have moved out. I've got rid of two and gained two and four. So Friday to Monday is just pure carnage in the house. It's just chaotic and I forgot what it's like having toddlers in the house. I can't be in a room unless it's clean because it messes my head up.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay, interesting.

[Kerry Katona]

So I'm. I'll isolate myself to my bedroom. So when I see everything a mess, I keep going to clean it up after them. I thought there's no point until they've gone. Bed.

[Dilly Carter]

No.

[Kerry Katona]

But I wouldn't have it any other way. Let's add a few more. I would on it.

[Dilly Carter]

Would you?

[Kerry Katona]

I'd pop chiplets out for Paolo.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kerry Katona]

He'd probably walk out with her own id, like, and stuff. But. Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

I would like to just ask you a few. Quick fire.

[Kerry Katona]

Go on.

[Dilly Carter]

So, number one.

[Kerry Katona]

Yes.

[Dilly Carter]

How would you describe your home in a sentence?

[Kerry Katona]

Love. Him.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, good.

[Kerry Katona]

All my children know they're loved and that's all that matters. The people you're with is your home.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. And do you feel like you're more settled than you have been?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah. And everything's going so well for me and the emotional support that I'm getting from people, I'm not used to that. So I'm kind of waiting for the shoe to drop. Does that make sense?

[Dilly Carter]

I understand that completely. Sometimes you feel like if everything's going so right.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

When is it going to go wrong?

[Kerry Katona]

I've never had that. There's always been, like, you know, the headlines and everyone believes, you know, you read a headline, it's law. But I think it's almost like people have been looking through a camera and they've put it in focus and they're finally seeing me.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Rather than just what they're reading.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay. If someone comes over, what is the room you'd rather they didn't go into?

[Kerry Katona]

The office?

[Dilly Carter]

Why the office?

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, well, it is an office, but it's kind of turned into a laundry room.

[Dilly Carter]

So that's when the office has turned into a laundry room.

[Kerry Katona]

Yes. It's got my pool table in there and the pool table's got its cover on it that we just put the pile of washing. So it's like just become a dumb boxes everywhere and. Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

So it needs decluttering.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

You need me round to do that?

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, my God. Please come round, please. Oh, my God.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay. Shall we have a look at your first item?

[Kerry Katona]

Let's have a look what's in the box. Right. Can't remember now. Okay. Okay.

[Dilly Carter]

So in this box is your bra.

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, well, I knew you wanted a hammock.

[Dilly Carter]

Is it your bra?

[Kerry Katona]

It is my bra. It was actually the bra I was wearing.

[Dilly Carter]

This is the funniest thing. So, yes. Tell me why you were taking off your own bra.

[Kerry Katona]

Well, because when I go home to my house, I don't know how anybody can walk in their own home and sit with a bra on fully dressed.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Just watch Teller and chill. So the first thing I do is when I walk in, shoes off, straight upstairs, the bras off, clothes are off. And yeah. As a woman.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I'm sure you agree there's nothing better than tucking your bra off.

[Dilly Carter]

There isn't.

[Kerry Katona]

There's no better feeling than just letting them hanging loose.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

And tripping over your nipples on way downstairs.

[Dilly Carter]

Chipping over your nipples, I mean. Yes. But tell us more about why you brought your bra in as well.

[Kerry Katona]

So I started off at the age of 16, back in the day, like Samantha Fox as a glamour model.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I wasn't going to be a rocket scientist, but I had a great set of boobies babies on me.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

So when Covid hit and our work stopped, someone suggested only funds.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

So I was like sat the kids down. I said, you remember the pictures? Because my mom used to have my topless picture from the sun on a wall in the frame. She was so proud of it. You know, it was just normal.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

And so because of only fans, I've been able to give my children, you know, some amazing adventures.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. Where do you do all your content?

[Kerry Katona]

I could do it here right now if I had a phone. No, if I had a phone right now, it's literally. I could literally. It's. You know what it is? You know what really annoys me is how you get put into this. A stigma that surrounds it and you get put into a box and obviously everyone knows my past with the drugs and things, so people automatically have that stigma against you. Oh, those poor kids. You know, kids are living a great life. Like I'm crying a Lamborghini on the way home to Mansion back from private education.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Do you know what I mean? Rather I'm crying a Lamborghini, a full Fiesta love.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, but. But I could easily just sit here right now, you know, get boobies out and just take a picture and.

[Dilly Carter]

And earn a shed load of money from it.

[Kerry Katona]

I mean, it's business.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Why would I not want to do that? I mean, you've also got to remember I get questioned a lot. Hugh Hefner. I've got questioned about Playboy.

[Dilly Carter]

No.

[Kerry Katona]

Is it because I'm a woman? Is it because I'm owning it? Is it because I'm not doing it for FHM or Nuts Ozu or Max Power anymore because they don't exist. And did you everything did all the Corrie stars did Hollyoaks, did you know, we was all pitted against each other and these are all the men who owned the magazines. So is it because I'm a woman and because I'm in control of it all?

[Dilly Carter]

Do you still keep all those magazines?

[Kerry Katona]

No, no. That's why I love Google. Google's like my photo album.

[Dilly Carter]

So have you got rid of all your memories from all the years gone by?

[Kerry Katona]

You know what? I've lived in over 300 homes, houses, maybe push up for 400 houses my whole life. I just wanna settle. Yes. I just want my own home now that's actually ours. I think because it's such a young age and because I was in so many foster homes and refuges and different skills and push from pill to post, I've never really settled.

[Dilly Carter]

And do you think that's why you've left everything behind? Is every time you move you don't want to take the experiences of what's happened into the next phase?

[Kerry Katona]

No, not necessarily. I think I've moved so much things that either got lost in transit. I'm not very sentimental like that. I just think, I think the older I've got, I think just get rid, get rid, get rid. And the thing is what I do with my children, which it's my own fault, I over compensate by gifting them,

[Dilly Carter]

by giving them stuff.

[Kerry Katona]

By giving them stuff.

[Dilly Carter]

Do you think you give them too much?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah. Oh yeah. But they're very respectful. They're very, very grounded children. They're very humble. I say to my children when we leave this house, I'm the only embarrassment, you know. So my children are proper middle class.

[Dilly Carter]

Are they good at letting go of stuff as well?

[Kerry Katona]

They've been all been brought up differently, Molly and Lee, from a different gener relation to what Heidi and Max were. And then I've got dj.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

So they've all been brought up completely different. And what I've noticed as a mother is how the oldest one always tries to parent the younger one and tell me how to parent that child. Yeah, well, I wasn't allowed that at that age. I was. And it's like you've all done exactly the same thing. You all forget at that age what I did for you. So they all think like DJs my favorite. Yeah. I have no favorite. I love them all exactly the same.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

But for different reasons.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. And how would you feel about your children going into the same industry as you?

[Kerry Katona]

No, no, no, no. Don't do only fans. I wouldn't allow it. I don't care how old they are. I Wouldn't allow it in a million years.

[Dilly Carter]

Like a definite no.

[Kerry Katona]

Definitely absolute no.

[Dilly Carter]

What about singing?

[Kerry Katona]

If they want to come into this industry, TV singing. You know, the thing is this nepotism thing, Right. It's like if I was a makeup artist, for instance, and my daughter was watching me be a makeup artist or a tattooist, I won't do what my dad does. That doesn't make them nepotism.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, my children have been brought up, was born on camera. Their first photo shoots was okay magazine. My first daughter was a daughter of a Westlifer and an atomic kitten.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, that's, you know, they don't know any different.

[Dilly Carter]

No.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, I can open a door, I can give them a contact.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

But whether they say through that and continue on, that's on their merit.

[Dilly Carter]

Going back to the bra.

[Kerry Katona]

The bra, the hammock.

[Dilly Carter]

You know, this is something we never talk about is how often should we be washing our bras, Right?

[Kerry Katona]

So this bra, this bra for three days now.

[Dilly Carter]

So three days that's not been washed. I want to call Ewan because he's our cleaning expert, okay. And he's got the answer to everything.

[Kerry Katona]

All right?

[Dilly Carter]

Hi, darling. How are you?

[Ewan (Cleaning Expert)]

I'm good. How are you doing?

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah, I mean, I'm having a very random conversation, as we do on this show with the gorgeous Kerry Katona. Say hi.

[Kerry Katona]

Hi, Kerry. Hi. I love, er, Hicks.

[Ewan (Cleaning Expert)]

How are you, my darling?

[Kerry Katona]

I'm all right, sweetheart.

[Dilly Carter]

Kerry is taking off her bra. I mean, not on camera, and we have that in front of us.

[Kerry Katona]

I don't give the goods away for

[Dilly Carter]

free, so you have to pay for that. We were just wondering, how often should we be washing our bras?

[Ewan (Cleaning Expert)]

I think we should be aiming for maybe like every three to four wears. If you consider that, you know, the bra is right up against your skin. If you have had a bit of a sweaty day, there's going to be sweat in there. Dead skin cells. I mean, the thing is as well, if we over wash our bras, we're going to potentially be damaging them. And I carry and then irritation collection. I mean, you've got all sorts of colors. They're fancy ones. I've seen them.

[Kerry Katona]

Have you seen Kerry's bride? Hey, he's on me. Only fans.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

Oh, no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together, we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson (Doug)]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Partner]

Liberty, Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Dilly Carter]

Right. Would you like to pass me your second box?

[Kerry Katona]

Yes, I will give you my second box. I can't remember what's in it, but here you go. Okay, let's have a look.

[Dilly Carter]

So the second box is quite a big box. I'm just going to take the lid off.

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, okay.

[Dilly Carter]

So in this box is a purple Filofax. Right.

[Kerry Katona]

For those of you who are very young.

[Dilly Carter]

Exactly.

[Kerry Katona]

For those of you who are very, very young. I haven't gone digital.

[Dilly Carter]

No.

[Kerry Katona]

I don't have a digital calendar, which is so interesting. I'm dyslexic. Okay. I've had a Filofax ever. I became who I was. Yeah. If it's not in that FileFax, it won't get done. I'm in there. I'm in there. Podcast. Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. So I love the fact that you still write in a file of facts.

[Kerry Katona]

I've so many of them.

[Dilly Carter]

I write in a diary.

[Kerry Katona]

I'm definitely visual person. For me, it's like, where's my Firefox? And then I can look at the dates and that's how I work it out in my head.

[Dilly Carter]

And how do you manage? Well, five, seven children.

[Kerry Katona]

There's a lot to juggle with all of them. They've all got different needs and different ones because of different ages.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I don't know any different. I was 20 when I had Molly.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, as a baby, feel like

[Dilly Carter]

you're a completely different parent.

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

As to what you were.

[Kerry Katona]

Absolutely. Because generations are constantly changing. Technology's changing. Absolutely. Trends are changing, kids are changing. And circumstance.

[Dilly Carter]

Of course.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, I. I've model cuddled DJ a lot. Her father passed away when she was 5. Like yesterday we had an incident and for some reason, I can never shout it Didi, because she scares the shit Out. Yeah, she has a temper. I just think her and Lily, they've both got the same kind of temper, so I don't know, I just leave her alone.

[Dilly Carter]

What do you think you've learned the most from all your children?

[Kerry Katona]

I'm enough. It took me a long, long time and even though I've said that, I still don't feel it. I've always tried to overcompensate in so many different things. It's that mum guilt of just the fact that Kerry Catton is their mum. They get so much shit for it.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

My mistakes are automatically their burdens.

[Dilly Carter]

I mean, that's a heavy weight to bear, isn't it? It is.

[Kerry Katona]

And that's not fair on them because they didn't ask for this and they should be allowed to make their own mistakes. Well, I think a lot of it's mum guilt every day. I don't know everything. I'm still learning as a mum, you know.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, I mean, your career has gone in so many different directions, hasn't it,

[Kerry Katona]

over the years for me as a kid from who's come from nothing. When I got offered two things like the Jungle and Big Brother and Dancing on Ice and. What an adventure.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I'm just this kid who got a clothes off a car boot sale and next thing you know, I'm doing sas, you know, and I'm thinking, this is just crazy.

[Dilly Carter]

What's been your favorite reality TV show?

[Kerry Katona]

I'm always going to say, well, obviously doing so let's Go Dating was an amazing one.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I got to meet Carlo.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

But I think individually, as a person, for me, it's always going to be, I'm a celebrity. To this day, I don't know why I won it. I look back on it, I think, I don't care.

[Dilly Carter]

It's just been you.

[Kerry Katona]

I just didn't do it well, that's all I can be.

[Dilly Carter]

Have you kept any of your memorabilia from I'm a Celebrity?

[Kerry Katona]

I have my T shirt in the frame.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Bet you that stinks.

[Dilly Carter]

Let's talk about your Atomic Kitten days, because they're my favourite days.

[Kerry Katona]

Okay.

[Dilly Carter]

I mean, what was the best part of being in an Atomic Kitten?

[Kerry Katona]

Being with the girls. I think for me, I was a founder member.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I mean, we. We really grafted. That's when you had to really graft. That's when it pops out.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, there was no Instagram then, was there?

[Kerry Katona]

There was no. Nothing like that. Like your fan mails. Handwritten.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Do you know what I mean? I think the transition from grafting so hard to then, next thing you know, being on smtv. And I'll never get, like, supporting steps. I remember looking down at a young girl and I pointed it as I sang the words and she was so elated and happy and I thought I did that. Yeah. That's all I ever wanted to do. I never. We did a documentary, Girl Bounce Forever.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. That's recent, wasn't it?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah. And that was really tough to watch because I've never seen that footage. And looking at that girl, me, I just wanted to perform. And people go, oh, you know what? You dance like. No one can ever, ever prepare you. You just see the polished side of us on top of Pops, singing and dancing. That's all you ever see. That's all I ever saw. Like the Spice Girls thought, oh, my God, looks amazing.

[Dilly Carter]

That's what I want to be.

[Kerry Katona]

You're never gonna be prepared, especially to be singled out with the one with all the skeletons in her closet from being a garment model and being in foster home and my mum having drug problems, you know, you don't. I didn't think any of that had come up. You just want to go and stage them before.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know.

[Dilly Carter]

Why do you think they picked you out?

[Kerry Katona]

I think because I had so many. I think my childhood, I think because they thought they could have sex with. I was a gobby one. I was a gobby one, you know.

[Dilly Carter]

What do you think's been the hardest thing to hear about you?

[Kerry Katona]

I'm a terrible mum. My kids should be taken off me. That's always been a real tough one because I was taking off my own mum.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

So that one's always hurt. After I give them away, they keep coming back. Well, thank, you know, I think, you know, and, you know, no one ever gets it perfect. No, it's my first time being a parent. It was my mum's first time being a parent.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

And I'll still get it wrong. I'll still say the wrong things to kids and I'm the worst parent in the world and.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, you're not because you're very organised. You've got your Filofax, I've got Filofax. What in this Filofax are you most looking forward to? What date in there?

[Kerry Katona]

I'm really looking forward to going to Marbella on Monday and then I'm really looking forward to going away on holiday before I start my Mamma Mia tour because it's a three month tour and it's gonna be so full on and yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

And how are you gonna juggle everything?

[Kerry Katona]

I love being on stage, but I struggle touring. I struggle being away from being away from the family. Yeah, I'm a proper homebody because you

[Dilly Carter]

want to, you want to bring the money in, but you also want to be at home.

[Kerry Katona]

And my kids come with me to work quite a lot. Like, Heidi and DJ came to my gig, to pool, to karaoke, you know, on Sunday. It's great. The audience get up, we're acting like a bunch of knob heads on stage, pretending we can sing, you know, and

[Dilly Carter]

sing loads of 90s songs, singing just

[Kerry Katona]

like loads of, like Gloria Gates and a bit of Atomic Kitten, a bit of Spice Girls. Imagine that.

[Dilly Carter]

Doing things.

[Kerry Katona]

And they're loving it and they're.

[Dilly Carter]

I bet it is.

[Kerry Katona]

And it's a great memory for what, you know, just acts like an idiot, forgetting your worries. And I'm a part of that and I'm able to give that to them. Right. I think that's a really special thing.

[Dilly Carter]

And also it's so lovely and I think really important that our kids see us working and doing stuff. And the fact that you have to go out and that you're home late or that you've got these jobs because you know that you're teaching them that. Actually this is.

[Kerry Katona]

Well, Molly and Lily, I. I cannot fault them in any way because they both work extremely hard. They've gone in their own different directions in their own careers. They do it all by themselves.

[Dilly Carter]

You set them on the right path.

[Kerry Katona]

Well, they've done it themselves. You've been a big part of that as well.

[Dilly Carter]

Okay, let's get into your third box.

[Kerry Katona]

My third box.

[Dilly Carter]

I mean, I'm a little bit scared about what's in the third box.

[Kerry Katona]

I know.

[Dilly Carter]

Who knows what's in this? Okay, let's see what's in your third box. So it's the largest box.

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, okay.

[Dilly Carter]

And in here it looks like more clothes. So not a bra this time, but is this pajamas?

[Kerry Katona]

I live, live in pajamas.

[Dilly Carter]

A pair of nice gray pajamas.

[Kerry Katona]

As soon as I get in the house, I've got bras off, pyjamas on, my slippers, house coat. It doesn't matter what time of day. If I know I'm not leaving for the rest of the day, say it's 12 o' clock in the afternoon. I've done what I've had to do. I will go get my pyjamas on.

[Dilly Carter]

I'm with you.

[Kerry Katona]

And the bras off. And I'm just, just in my com. I could never Sit in my house in a pair of jeans.

[Dilly Carter]

No, I don't.

[Kerry Katona]

And my shoes.

[Dilly Carter]

He does.

[Kerry Katona]

And you. I don't know. Weirdos. You're all weirdos. If you sit in your house in jeans, watching. Tell her you're weird.

[Dilly Carter]

No one does that. How many pairs of pajamas do you have? Oh, gosh. Is there a lot?

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, this is bad.

[Dilly Carter]

Oh, God. How many? Oh, more than 10. Oh. Oh, God. More than 20?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah. More than 30? Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

More than 40? No.

[Kerry Katona]

You haven't got that. Yeah, probably.

[Dilly Carter]

How do you organize them? Are they in pyjama parcels?

[Kerry Katona]

I don't even know where half of them are.

[Dilly Carter]

Do you hang them? Do you fold them? Where are they in your house? I need a picture of her.

[Kerry Katona]

They're on pool table. I told you.

[Dilly Carter]

In office, there's a pile of 40 pajamas.

[Kerry Katona]

There's recent clothes that I've been wearing are in the pool table.

[Dilly Carter]

So that is literally where you go for everything.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah, that's where I won't get them this morning.

[Dilly Carter]

So they're not even.

[Kerry Katona]

Cause they're clean. Washing wire.

[Dilly Carter]

Have you not got a pyjama drawer?

[Kerry Katona]

I've got several pajama drawers.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, you must have to have several

[Kerry Katona]

pajamas, all different sizes.

[Dilly Carter]

And so some of those don't even fit you. So why are we keeping clothes?

[Kerry Katona]

Because I haven't had the time to go through it. All right. And then when I do have the occasional day off.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I can't be asked.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. I think that's probably because you haven't got the. Sometimes I think because it's not my.

[Kerry Katona]

I think because of the home, I mean, at the moment, and it's not mine. That mentality of going, we. We're prepping to get our own house at the moment.

[Dilly Carter]

Even though you are renting, don't let that put you off organizing because I think sometimes you can very flippantly think, oh, I'm just renting, so it doesn't matter. But actually, that can still cause you a lot of stress.

[Kerry Katona]

I'm very blessed that I get so much sent me.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

I just. Nowhere to put it all.

[Dilly Carter]

Well.

[Kerry Katona]

And so you just start. Oh, I'll start that layer sort.

[Dilly Carter]

That way you just need better structure, that's all. When everything's got a place, it's easier.

[Kerry Katona]

Massively easier.

[Dilly Carter]

The most important thing is to get it organized.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

To have it sorted.

[Kerry Katona]

I'm definitely taking you with me in one of these boxes back to my house when I get old to parlor. What have you got in your box, love?

[Dilly Carter]

I've got Dilly in my box. What would convince you to get rid of some of those pajamas?

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, it's just time. Just. I would, I would.

[Dilly Carter]

I would actually think that's what it's all about.

[Kerry Katona]

It's time for you, it's my time. For me, I think. I think for me I'd keep just the three pair and the rest could go apart from there's a nightie that I'll never get rid of.

[Dilly Carter]

Why?

[Kerry Katona]

And another pair dramas that meant one of them is my nan's, that she passed away and the nightie that I gave birth to.

[Dilly Carter]

Dj, you kept both of those things?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

Are they the pyjamas that did you say your nan passed away in?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah, I don't wear them. Oh, do you?

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah. And does that really make you feel much closer to her?

[Kerry Katona]

No, not really.

[Dilly Carter]

There was. I think this is emotional. This is nice.

[Kerry Katona]

No, it's not. Okay, then. The woman, Anne, she died in them. My nan, she's only tiny.

[Dilly Carter]

Is that the only thing you kept from her?

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah. So I've got her jamas. I'm a nightie I wore when I gave birth to dj.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Life support. And I don't think I've ever washed that nighter. Haven't you? I don't think so. I might done. I'm not sure, but I just. I just remember being on the big rubber ball.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

You know, being out in the hospital with a night on and obviously, you know, George was alive then. Obviously. So I. I won't get rid of that, but I'd more than I could get rid of the rest of them.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

For me, I was born to be mum. That's. That was what I was always wanted. I think the one thing I've had to learn, I was such a people pleaser. I wanted everybody to love me. And that was what was so amazing when I won. The jungle was like, oh, my God. Loved. I feel so loved. And the only person's love I ever really crave was my mums.

[Dilly Carter]

Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Just wanting my mum to love me.

[Dilly Carter]

And do you feel like you've got that now?

[Kerry Katona]

I love them. I will always love me more. My mum's me mum, but it's a. It's a relationship that has had its ups and downs and again, she was a parent for the first time. And, you know, I'm eternally grateful to me mom for instilling the resilience in me from such a young age.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, I think for everything that you've been through in your life, you're Doing amazingly.

[Kerry Katona]

Thank you.

[Dilly Carter]

We have seen and heard about all your items, so thank you for bringing those in.

[Kerry Katona]

You're very welcome.

[Dilly Carter]

If you had to, what would you sell, donate or keep out of all them? Oh, those three items sell. Yeah.

[Kerry Katona]

Oh, I sell me bra. Yep. I would keep my Filofax because I can't organize out that and I'd donate my jamas.

[Dilly Carter]

Brilliant. Well done. And my last question to you is, where in your home is your happy place?

[Kerry Katona]

My living room. When all five kids are home and the babies are there as well, I just sit there because sometimes I think all the shit I went through as a kid was very, very lonely. Sometimes wish I had somebody to go through it with. And I sit back and I look at my kid. I think, that's my brood. They're the best five parts of me I've ever made. I'm super proud.

[Dilly Carter]

I love that.

[Kerry Katona]

So wherever we all are as a family, that's my favorite place, as it should be together.

[Dilly Carter]

Kerry, you've been unbelievably.

[Kerry Katona]

Thank you for having me.

[Dilly Carter]

Lovely. I knew it'd be a joy to sit here and talk to you and it really has been so. Thank you.

[Kerry Katona]

Thank you for having me, my lovely. When you come around to got out meals, that's what I want.

[Dilly Carter]

Well, let's. Let's look at your file effects.

[Kerry Katona]

Yeah.

[Dilly Carter]

I can't wait to be back with you for more revealing home truths, organizational hacks and celeb unboxings. Sort your life out. Unpacked is presented by me, Dilly Carter. You can watch us on iplayer and listen on free BBC Sounds. And don't forget to subscribe on BBC Sounds and have push notifications turned on to make sure you don't miss an episode.

[Tyler West]

Hello, I'm Tyler West. And I'm Alfie Watts. And this is the Detour, the official companion podcast to Race across the World. This is the post episode Checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our Race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by our resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, man. I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else exclusive content at the end of every episode. Cannot wait. The Detour will land straight after each episode of Race across the World. You can watch on iplayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content. We'll see you then.