← Jung On Purpose Podcast by CreativeMind
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- [00:00]
Deborah Maldonado
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Narrator/Announcer
Welcome to Jung on purpose with CreativeMind, hosted by Deborah and Dr. Rob Maldonado, creators of the NeuroMindra coaching method based on Jungian psychology, non dual spirituality and social neuroscience. Join us each week as we explore personal growth for purpose seekers and the incredible inner journey of becoming your true self.
- [00:28]
Deborah Maldonado
Let's get started.
- [00:31]
Narrator/Announcer
Hello, everyone.
- [00:31]
Deborah Maldonado
Welcome.
- [00:32]
Narrator/Announcer
Welcome back to Jung on Purpose.
- [00:34]
Deborah Maldonado
I am Deborah Moldedada.
- [00:35]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
I'm Dr. Rob. Welcome to the show and we are
- [00:38]
Deborah Maldonado
glad to be here to continue our series on dreams. We're going to talk about nightmares today and what they mean, but before we begin, I do want to remind you, if you're watching us on YouTube, please subscribe to our channel that helps us reach more people as well as if you're listening to us on any podcast service, make sure you subscribe. So you get every episode of Jung on Purpose and get your mind filled with great information.
- [01:04]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah.
- [01:04]
Deborah Maldonado
And so today we're talking about dreams. Rob.
- [01:07]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, it's an important topic and we want to let you know that we have a new app. If you experience our dream interpretation technique, the app really conveys kind of how we work with dreams, the symbolism behind dreams and what it's telling you about your own journey on the individuation process. And it's called Jungian Dream Oracle and the link is below, so check it out if you can.
- [01:35]
Deborah Maldonado
It's. We've been getting, we've just released it two weeks ago and we've been getting so many great comments and people saying they love it and it's giving them great insight. Now it's not. Doesn't replace coaching. We always recommend you get coaching and work with someone, but in between these, and if you're never familiar with young, it kind of, it creates a little intrigue about Jungian psychology. You learn a little bit about it, but definitely remember it's a compliment to other services you have. You shouldn't use it as a sole treatment for anything. But it really, I mean, all our clients love it and we can't wait to share it with you. And it's absolutely free. Check it out.
- [02:13]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, check it out. So, yeah, in, in Jungian coaching, we don't push anything away. So nightmares, night terrors, any kind of sleep problems, we invite them in. Not that we want to continue along that path, but they have something to teach us. The model, the approach is like this. If a nightmare is kind of an alarm system, right, it means that the unconscious has something important to tell you, something important that needs to become conscious, that needs to become integrated as Jung would say. So that approach is really important. We don't try to get rid of anything. We don't push it away because all we're doing is pushing it into the unconscious where it's going to gather more energy. It's like a hurricane that we push back into the ocean. It's simply going to gather more energy.
- [03:06]
Deborah Maldonado
And so we talked about dreams in the last two episodes, but I want to remind everyone that to not take dreams literally. And the app is really great for that. And the people in the dream are not the actual people. They're symbols of, of yourself. And you know, I think it was Jung and also Marie von Franz said the psyche wouldn't go through all the trouble to give you a dream just to tell you something you already know. So if you think you know it right away, oh, this is so obvious what this dream is, you are probably incorrect. So you would definitely want to go deeper. Dreams, you know, nightmares specifically, we. People get freaked out when they have a nightmare and they feel like something is wrong. And there's also this concept of night terrors that I think some people say, is it a nightmare or a night terror? What's the difference? Before we dive into nightmares, just because night terrors are a little more severe and they're. There's. There's something else going on there.
- [04:02]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, there's a couple of clues that you can look at that distinguish the two. So for one nightmare, you will recall it because it often wakes you up. Like it's, it's a disturbing dream that, you know, just. It startles you so much that you wake up, you get out of the REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep and wake up. Night terrors. The dreamer usually does not recall the event that they were dreaming of or that they were experiencing or the nightmare that they were experiencing. The mind simply blocks it out. And in night terrors, there's usually like an acting out of. Almost like if you're awake in the bed and you're wrestling with the pillows or throwing them around or, or trying to run, those kind of physical activities are often not there. In a nightmare nightmare, the body is essentially paralyzed or in, in REM sleep, that's, that's normal or typical. The, the muscles do not react to, to the scene that's happening. You're simply experiencing it in your mind. And then you wake up, you might be restless or something like that, but you're not acting out the dream scenario.
- [05:20]
Deborah Maldonado
Would the night terror be from like a trauma or something normally or do. Is it something that Some personalities, like it's part of your DNA that you are, like, have predisposition to have night terror.
- [05:32]
Narrator/Announcer
Yeah.
- [05:33]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Almost every disorder that we look at has some kind of genetic component. Right. So it's passed down in family systems and all those kinds of things. But in. It can develop from minor things or from traumatic life events that have not been processed. So one of the ways to think about dreaming is that it's a way for our mind to process our human experiences and put them in the right place in the right context. It's like filing them away in the right proper place, making sure everything's taken care of. That's the dream work. In nightmares, it's like, wait a minute. There's something important that you haven't really kind of processed. And so the unconscious is bringing it up again and saying, I gotta get this person's attention, so I'm gonna give them a shock so that they can pay attention, because this needs attention immediately. And in night terrors is something similar, but the. The way it plays out is more kind of a. It's more in a physical way. And it also blocks the content, which is.
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Deborah Maldonado
So they don't remember fully.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
They don't remember it. Yeah.
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Deborah Maldonado
They just wake up, like, scared or something.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, exactly.
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Deborah Maldonado
Okay.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
And. Yeah, so. Okay, that's the main difference.
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Deborah Maldonado
Just the difference. Yeah. Let's dive into nightmares then. So what we always say there's no. There are no negative dreams. Like, nightmares are bad and evil. And I find that just knowing all these years working with young and dream interpretation, that nightmares, Nightmares are really powerful messages from the dream, and so we shouldn't be afraid of them when they happen. I sometimes think that they come and correct me if I'm wrong, or you have a different take. But I think the nightmares come because there's something really urgent and almost like we need to see it in a very intense way. And sometimes it's really disturbing. We see disturbing images like violence and pain and even death and, you know, crashes and bad people, like, hurting others. And it feels very. Killing others. Right. And it feels very like, ooh, yeah, this is. I don't want this in my mind. It's too negative. So. But I feel like when we have those, it's like the psyche's trying to get our attention and it's. Maybe they gave us a nicer dream and we're not getting it. And it's like, okay, let me. Let me make it really violent for you. So you pay attention here. Would you think that is true?
- [08:10]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Or maybe sometimes that's That's a good point is I think it's part of it, but the other part is that the mind, the. The unconscious is kind of a mythological creature. Right. It thinks in mythological form. Now, if we look at myths and mythology in general, what do we see? Violence, Themes of poisoning others, themes of war, themes of conflict.
- [08:40]
Deborah Maldonado
Incense of monsters, the God sleeping, raping people and. Yeah.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Fighting with dragons. Fighting with the serpents. All kinds of mythological themes arise in dreams, and therefore, often people misinterpret that as something bad is going to happen to me. But it's simply that the symbolic language speaks in mythological forms, and therefore, you see, superstitions arise out of those forms.
- [09:07]
Deborah Maldonado
So let's start with a compensatory dream. How nightmares can be compensatory. If you want, I can read the hypothetical nightmare example and then you. Okay, okay. A celebrated executive stands beneath blinding lights on a grand stage as an audience applauds his success. Just as he lifts a golden trophy, the floor beneath him suddenly fractures. The stage collapses, and he plunges into darkness. He lands and in a cold underground chamber where a small, frightened child sits alone, sobbing and calling for help.
- [09:42]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yes, Tense nightmare. And usually the dreamer will awaken at this moment right when he realizes, oh, my God, I'm in this dark space and there's a child crying. And the emotion, the intensity of emotion is intense there. Don't believe the. One of the main functions of dreaming and nightmares was to balance out our lopsided conscious personality in a way. Like our Personas, you would say, in this case, you see the executive very invested perhaps in their Persona, believing they are this successful person with all the
- [10:24]
Deborah Maldonado
lights and the stage.
- [10:26]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, and super invested in. In maintaining and upholding this facade that he called Jung called the mask, the Persona, to the detriment of his inner life. In other words, he's not connected to his unconscious mind. And so the unconscious here is giving him a clear message that is aimed at compensating for that over emphasis, over identification of himself as Persona, as the mask.
- [10:57]
Deborah Maldonado
And so compensatory means that the dream is showing, like your conscious attitude Persona, and the dream is showing, like the opposite.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yes. You need to be.
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Deborah Maldonado
To balance out.
- [11:09]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. You need to be aware that you are not this Persona, that there's a deeper aspect to yourself and that you need to be connected with that. And so the nightmare, we start to see that it's not really anything negative. On the contrary, it's. It's caring for you. This intelligence that is we call the unconscious is Actually prompting you to balance your psyche by paying attention to your inner.
- [11:36]
Deborah Maldonado
And so the child, this child, Jung would say, would represent the ignored part of the psyche, the emotional life.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. There's a neglect.
- [11:46]
Deborah Maldonado
Person pushing. Yeah, neglecting the child, the emotion, the creativity.
- [11:52]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Potential.
- [11:53]
Deborah Maldonado
The potential.
- [11:54]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
The potential. Because paying attention to your inner life is what we call personal development. It's the source of wisdom from within, the sense of finding who you really are. You know how people talk about, I haven't find myself, who am I? Yeah, you're not going to find yourself out there in the world. Although we try, right? We, we try to find kind of meaning in experiences. There's nothing wrong with that. We, we want those experiences, but they're not going to give you the meaning. The meaning has to come from within you.
- [12:28]
Deborah Maldonado
So would you say this person who had this dream was probably putting so much of his ego into his outer life and this, this facade, this Persona and that it was going to crash eventually? It was almost. Could it be also of like kind of saying, this is going to happen if you don't, this is where you need to go? Because we all have that, like, dark night of the soul. So it could be kind of helping that person say, don't take yourself too seriously. The inner life is being ignored, or everything's going to crash down.
- [12:58]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yes, dreams have that function as well, where they're giving us a heads up as to what is our journey about, what do we need to prepare for and what do we need to, to learn in the process? And that's the, the, the kind of, you see the intelligence of the unconscious here, that it's able to convey messages at a lot of different levels at once. So as we start to break down the dream, like, we could work with this dream for months and months, really, because it has so many layers to it. But here we're just speaking in general. We're like, what is the function of these nightmares that appear to us at certain times or sometimes chronic or repetitive dreams or nightmares? If any one of you listening have recurring nightmares, you can post them or, or, you know, ask question, if you will, on our feed or put it
- [13:55]
Deborah Maldonado
in the app and see what it says too.
- [13:57]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah.
- [14:00]
Deborah Maldonado
One thing too, before we get into the neuroscience of this, is that so in Jungian coaching, the person would have the dream, the client would have the dream, and then we would help them interpret it. We would ask them questions. And one of the questions I would ask if this was my client, is, how are you with your emotion life, what is your emotional life like? Are you in touch with your feelings? Do you. You know? And then even going into how you were conditioned by your family system, your mother, father, if you do, you were you taught to shut down your emotions?
- [14:34]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
And.
- [14:34]
Deborah Maldonado
And the dream is saying, we need to explore this. And then we would start to work toward that to balance out. And then also where the. I would say, what would. If everything crashed, what would happen? You know, what are you afraid of? Like, what's driving. Keeping this stage presence up? Like, what is the opposite of that and having them balance out what they're running from. Because usually people create this outer life because there's something they're compensating for. So the compens. Compensatory dream is always really great, because if you're so attached to being this celebrity or this stage presence, this leader, this executive that everyone admires, what are you running away from? Which is the shadow too. But we'll get into the shadow dream as well. But, yeah, definitely your attitude and about emotions and who you are and how much you define yourself by this, by your status. And. And. And what would. If that fell away, what would happen? Not to be mean, but to have people ask those questions, which they probably have never asked themselves before. And then the. The cool thing is the dream is telling this client this, which I love about yogin coaching, is that it's not just, oh, you're telling me this situational thing that's happened in your life, and I'm gonna tell you what I think you should do, or I'm gonna ask you questions and take you in a direction. The dream is. It's coming from inside the client, which I love this part of this work, active imagination and dreams is. Is the client's experiencing this. So you're. As a coach, you're just telling and reflecting back what their inside is saying. So really great. So neuroscience, what happens to that? So from a neuroscience perspective, Rob, what is going on?
- [16:15]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, yeah. So a little bit about the neuroscience perspective. Most neuroscientists, not all of them, but most neuroscientists would say that the dream is a result of what's going on in the brain as we sleep, that it's essentially throwing out these signals or these impulses or these firings of neurons. That is then the brain is kind of trying to figure out what does this mean and creating a narrative around the dream. And therefore, that's how they explain dreams often here we're reversing it, actually, from the Jungian Perspective and from the Eastern perspective as well. What, what we dream because it's coming from this deeper source of our unconscious mind, which is closer to consciousness or pure consciousness. The brain is responding to this, the, these mythological symbols that are arising from deep within us, deep from consciousness. And, and then we're see these effects. So it's reversed. The, the neuroscientist sees as the neurons as primary, we see the consciousness as primary and then the neurons reacting to that. But in general, what's happening through the research shows that the amygdala, which is part of the limbic system, the emotional system, is activated during dreams and during sleep. Which is strange, right? Most of us think, oh, when I'm sleeping, I'm resting, I'm kind of the brain shut off. Yeah, the brain, it's the contrary. Often if we, you know, if we image the brain during sleep and dreaming, it's really active. It's more active than when we're awake. So it's an, it's an amazing thing. How do we recharge our battery when there's all this activity going on? But there we see the primacy of consciousness. It's because when we're in deep sleep, we're closer to that consciousness and absorbing its energy, like recharging. That's battery charged.
- [18:27]
Deborah Maldonado
Yeah. So we, when we're, we're kind of like when you're on the charger, the battery is really fully charged all the time. And when you take the phone away from the charger, it's like losing charge all day. So we're kind of like a phone off its charger and then we reconnect when we go into deep sleep. I love that. Wow, that's really interesting. I never heard that before.
- [18:49]
Narrator/Announcer
You've spent years building success and achieving what others would only imagine. But yet something deeper is calling. A desire for work that's meaningful, transformative and rooted in who you really are. At CreativeMind, we train professionals to guide others through real psychological transformation using Jungian principles, Eastern spirituality and social neuroscience. No cliches, no surface level tools, just depth, structure and purpose. Our ICF accredited Jungian Life Coach training program provides a profound professional training in small cohorts that includes personal transformation with a dedicated coach and powerful tools to help you guide others in a deep, lasting transformation. Stepping into that next chapter of your personal and professional evolution, Join us by visiting creativemindlife.com and speak to an admission specialist today. That's creativemindlife.com.
- [20:00]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, here's. So here's a couple of clues to Give us a sense of what is why sleep and dreaming is needed. So if. And this is, has been done experimentally. When people are prevented from going into deep sleep, in other words, they're allowed to dream. But when they're. Their. Their mind is going into deep sleep, which is a different com. A different state than the dreaming state. Let's say you wake them up right before or right as they're going into deep sleep, and you don't let them go into that deep sleep state, they will start to weaken. You know, within a few days or weeks, they'll start to. Their health will start to deteriorate. And a lot of this research, of course, was done with animals as well. But they start to get sick and eventually will die if, if they don't recharge their battery through this deep sleep state. Now they can, they can focus and wake people up as they're going into REM sleep, which is the dreaming state. And so they, they let them go into deep sleep, but they don't allow them to get into rem, which is the dreaming state. And they wake them up as they're going into the dreaming state. What happens to them is very different. They start to lose their ability to rationalize and to think clearly. That function starts to break down. So we need to. We definitely need deep sleep. It just recharges the whole biological system. And we definitely need REM dreaming. It recharges our, our. The clarity and cognitive power of our brain. Without that, we can't think clearly, we can't reason, we can't do mathematical problems, all those things. So there you see the importance of good sleep. And recently there's been some, Some books out, right. That, that kind of hit that topic. If you're not getting good sleep, deep sleep and dreaming, you're not functioning at optimal levels. Can't. So let's go on to the next phrase.
- [22:07]
Deborah Maldonado
Okay. Nightmares as an encounter of the shadow. So I'll read the dream, a hypothetical dream. Example. A man runs through a dense forest at night, branches clawing at his face as he struggles to escape. Behind him, he hears the heavy footsteps of someone pursuing him. When he turns back in terror, he sees a dark figure emerging from the shadows, gripping a knife, its face strangely familiar. We hear that a lot from our clients. The strangers was chasing me and dark figure chasing me. Right. So what does this mean, Rob?
- [22:42]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So this is again another function of dreams that once we do initiate individuation, what Jung called this process of finding yourself or the true self. The unconscious is paying attention and it's giving you the first, the first task or one of the first tasks in individuation is to encounter the shadow in you. Now the shadow, by definition we're not going to go deep into it, but just the basics. If you think about your Persona like this executive that we were talking about before, the executive Persona is one of a kind of serious business person, perhaps very invested in their career, very focused on being professional, making sure that, you know, they do what they need to do to succeed. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, we all need some of that. But when the individual over identifies with that, they're neglecting the opposite of that Persona, which is the shadow. So it's the creative part, the perhaps a little spontaneous aspect of their personality or something.
- [23:55]
Deborah Maldonado
Like more relaxed and you know, non attached and fun. Having fun, not too serious. Yeah, yeah.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
You know, lover of, of nature and life. All the things that we associate with somebody that's not that executive business person.
- [24:15]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, couldn't this also be the, the shadow like chasing them? It could also be for example, the executive wanting to be put, given praise all the time. So the, the shadow would be that critical people, someone who's criticized, someone who's a failure, someone who's not successful. And so this person chasing like if that, if this executive was having this dream that dark, it's like what are they running from? I always say, like what are you running from? And so it's almost like that feeling of I'm running from that fear of being a loser, being a failure, being not enough.
- [24:53]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So the first nightmare, for example, we, we see, he falls into a kind of a, a pit. Right. Or a dark space below the floor. That, that is the unconscious prompting him that he has to pay attention to the unconscious. Meaning what's hidden underneath the floorboards? What's underneath that you can't see in your everyday life? He's used to the glaring lights of the business world perhaps and the, you know, being open and being a salesperson of being out in the community. The unconscious is where the shadow resides. So what does he find in the shadow? A child. Meaning all that potential that he pushed away and did not fit the executive Persona.
- [25:41]
Deborah Maldonado
He had to like immaturity too. Right. The child would be like that, childish ways or immature ways, even playful. Like a part of him is crying, I just want to play.
- [25:51]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, yeah. And so the symbols are very important in, in these nightmares that appear because they point to what is the solution. So that as soon as this person begins to confront and do shadow work, Those nightmares go away. That's the. At least in theory, each individual course plays out differently. But that's the idea that if you act, work with your nightmares, this confrontation with the shadow, as Jung calls it, is the cure, in essence, the, the remedy for working with nightmares.
- [26:26]
Deborah Maldonado
Now, there's a neuroscience element about this, about the limbic fear circuitry.
- [26:31]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So everything kind of happens through our brain. Right. Our brain is the one that is falling asleep and dreaming and, and creating these inner worlds that we experience. So the limbic system, we can think of it as containing the fear response. So we all know the fear response. Right. I like to, to watch some of these silly videos where people scare each other.
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Deborah Maldonado
Right. I don't like this.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
That.
- [27:01]
Deborah Maldonado
Yeah, we did that as kids all the time to each other, and I always hated it.
- [27:04]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That startle response, that's the limbic system. It's there to protect us. Right. To say, be ready for the unexpected. And it's always ready. It's ready. It's like a trigger, right. It triggers it. You don't even have to think about it. You, Your mind, body responds to the surprise thing. Now that function is activated when we're asleep. And it's probably because in dreams, you note that you're usually experiencing things that are unfamiliar to you, places that you've never seen before. Therefore, your mind, your kind of ego mind is, Is always on the alert.
- [27:43]
Deborah Maldonado
And your brain doesn't know the difference between an external image and what you're imagining. So whether it's a dream or visualization, your brain is processing it as. As if it's happening to you.
- [27:53]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
I love that. As if it's happening to you. That's why your art's eyes are darting around. You're looking at the objects in that dreamscape. You're actually treating them as if you are actually experiencing them in waking life.
- [28:08]
Deborah Maldonado
When I used to do in person sessions, I would watch the client when I would do visualizations. And I knew they were just checking everything out. Yeah. Looking and seeking.
- [28:18]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, yeah. So threat detection is activated. And what happens when we anticipate threat? Is that any little thing, right. When we're kind of being very careful and trying to detect the threat, anything that stands out to us, it kind of triggers that response. So in, in nightmares, that process is kind of on steroids. It's hyperactivated. And then whatever kind of surprises us of the dream, we take it as a danger, as a real threat to us. And so in the, in the nightmare, somebody's coming at us with a Knife. The response is very real to us or feels very real, and it wakes us up often. That's the nightmare.
- [29:02]
Deborah Maldonado
So symbolically, I always, when I have see a client have those dreams, I always say the ego's threatened. There's something symbolic here about what the ego finds as a threat. So this dark figure being the shadow approaching you with a knife. And the knife is a symbol of clarity and cutting through the bs, cutting through the noise and having clarity. It's a symbol of focus and clarity. And also it can be murder, which is transformation. And so it's showing that the client's resistance to facing something in their unconscious. So the danger person is something the ego sees as dangerous. And so it's showing that client about their resistance to facing something. And so that's why it's so important to not take em literally. When you have someone chasing your dream, the first question you should ask is, what am I running away from? What is. What am I scared? What is scaring me? What is. What am I pushing away? What am I not willing to face?
- [30:03]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yes. And the answer is to use your knife, meaning your discernment, cut through the confusion. So the answer is always in the symbols that appear in the nightmare. It's simply that most people, because they interpret it in a literal way, because of the fear, the response, they miss the point. Right? So the dream app or a Jungian coach can help you through that because then you're able to. To access the answer not from someone telling you what you need to do, but. But from the unconscious itself. And this is the key, right, that your unconscious knows better than anyone else, any coach, any therapist, any friend or your grandmother giving you advice. Your unconscious knows the answer already, but it's your job to pay attention.
- [30:55]
Deborah Maldonado
So we have a number of scenarios, dreams to talk about and interpret. And I'm wondering if we need to do a part two because we're getting a little. So next week we'll talk about the unintegrated experience of a nightmare. Uh, we'll talk about the raw expressions of the autonomous psyche, which is very interesting. And then urgent calls for psychological integration. We'll do those three next week so we can really absorb these because we went deep into these. Dreams are really powerful. And again, please subscribe to our download your free dream app and get started. And, and look at those dreams, nightmares, and we'd love to hear how you, what you think of it. Give us a rating on the the apps because that really helps other people find us as well. The links are in the show notes below, please check it out. It's absolutely free. We do have a paid version if you want to go to have more in depth analysis, but the basic version is free. So you could definitely check it out and test it out. So we'll see you next week. Sweet dreams, I should say, or maybe have a nightmare or two to help you understand. So hopefully this cleared up a lot for you and yeah, and and get more out of your dream because they're so fascinating and they're there to help you and to the more you know about them, the more you know about yourself.
- [32:13]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Absolutely. We'll see you next week.
- [32:15]
Deborah Maldonado
Take care.
- [32:17]
Narrator/Announcer
Thank you for joining us for Jung on Purpose with Deborah Maldonado and Dr. Rob Maldonado of Creative Mind. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast before you leave and join us each week.
- [32:28]
Deborah Maldonado
We'll see you soon. Sam.