Loading summary
Transcript153 lines
- [00:00]
Amanda Montel
If you haven't heard of BILT yet, you're about to thank me. There's no cost to join, and just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. When you pay rent through bilt, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's most valuable points on rent every month. No matter where you are or who your landlord is, your rent now works for you. Second, you gain access to exclusive neighborhood benefits in your city. And when you're ready to travel, built points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through BILT and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbuilt.com that's J-O-I-N B-I-L-T.com cult make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Join bilt.com cult to sign up for Built today, this podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform to help entrepreneurs, artists, podcasters stand out and succeed online. Squarespace is a household name because of their incredible cutting edge features, including their design intelligence. Also, if you want to start a business where you sell things online, Squarespace Payments makes that super easy. You just get set up with a few clicks if you're interested in E commerce, so Squarespace can make that happen for you. I am a Squarespace user. Sounds like a cult.com is a Squarespace website. Updating it could not be easier. So head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com cult to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch Snack Wrap. Spicy Snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack? Snack wrap is back. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Hey Occulties. I thought this would be a fun thematic rerun to air in the middle of summer to tide ha ha us over as Chelsea, Reese and I get our little duckies in a row for some extremely exciting and highly requested episodes we have coming up in the next few few weeks, including The Cults of Love Island, Labu Boo, the Cult of Duolingo. We've got some really good ones down the pipeline, but didn't want to leave you hanging as we get ourselves situated and pre recorded and edited and all the podcasty things. So before we dive back into this summary episode on the Cult of Cruise Ship, sorry there's gonna be some punning in this little update. I wanted to drop in with some latest news from the high seas because the cruise cult is trul thriving in 2025 and has somehow gotten even cultier since last year. This Cult of Cruise Ships episode is truly one of my favorites we've ever done, and I hope these updates give you as much of a cackle as they gave me. Number one on the docket has to do with one of the biggest cruise lines loyalty programs. Loyal cruisers are more passionate and dedicated and primed for sacrifice than kind of any vacationer I'm familiar with. Making this next update feel all the more manipulative. Basically, here's what happened. Carnival Cruise Line recently overhauled their Loyalty Very Important Fun Person VI F P TM program. Okay, it's a literally called their Very Important Fun Person program which is just it makes me chortle. And let's just say this new hierarchy is giving Scientology Sea Org just with more margaritas in a buffet. This is the latest the new Carnival Rewards system shifts from cruise night counting to spend base tiers with points and stars. Are you confused? That's on purpose? Basically what this means is that the cruise line no longer rewards loyalists for time served on the cruise, but rather how much you shell out. Hello at Sea. Carnival President Christine Duffy described this little bait and switch in a Carnival news press release as the an evolution of our loyalty program that represents our commitment to creating more meaningful recognition for our valued guests. And while according to cruise critics roundup of user reactions, some passengers are cautiously optimistic. I just love all of these niche media universes for all these little everyday cults. Cruise Critic I'm not a devoted reader, but I'm glad some people are. Still, other cruisers, like one Redditor quoted in the street, are calling BS and claiming that this is all just a tactic to make more money off these vacations. Stationers who have shaped their whole identity and sense of escape and refuge around a brand that is more than willing to use all of this convoluted language and hierarchical systems to squander that loyalty and devotion and simply make more money. Also, if you're a cruiser who doesn't like the new reward system, it's now a lot harder to express feedback or pushback. Culty as reported by Yahoo. News earlier this summer, Carnival decided to shut down its official forums after two decades, sparking a minor onboard mutiny. Okay, these message boards were a core part of Crew's fandom, where people did things like swap hacks and itineraries and loyalty secrets. But now they're gone and replaced by what? A customer service phone number? Rip to the Cult Sacred Scrolls this feels like a journey in a cult y direction to me. And if that was not enough to keep your Dramamine handy, here's some supplementary content for you. Netflix just dropped. Wait for it Train Wreck Colon Poop Cruise Poop Cruise indeed. The latest in its Train Wreck docu series. And this glorious piece of content delves into the 2013 Carnival triumph disaster. I don't know if you're familiar, but it was that lovely little time when an engine fire left 4,000 passengers stranded without plumbing power or AC on a Carnival cruise. 4 days. An entertainment Weekly journalist named Maureen Lee Lenker painted a vivid picture of this hullabaloo in an article titled what Happened on the Poop Cruise? She wrote, Biohazard bags lined the decks, raw sewage flooded floors. And this is my favorite part. Passengers built tent cities on the sun deck. People magazine also covered this culty scandal, and in that coverage a former crew member recalled a truly stomach turning phenomenon on board named Poop Lasagna. I'm sorry, there should have been a trigger warning at the beginning of this episode. It's so gross. Layer upon layer of human waste in the bathrooms. The nastiest thing I'd ever seen, unquote. It was basically like Fire Festival at sea meets Lord of the Flies. And this Netflix Train wreck Poop cruise is. Yeah, check it out. If you've ever wondered what happens when blind faith in a billion dollar brand turns into literal shit, give it a casual summer peruse. So all's to say, whether you are a Cult cruise dropout, yourself, a current gold tier lifer, or just here for the Lido deck, this rerun is really hitting different in 2025. Let us now revisit one of our truly favorite summer episodes, the Cult of Cruise Ships. The now with a little more context and a little more sewage Bon voyage. I mean, you had a literal love bomb quota.
- [07:55]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah.
- [07:55]
Amanda Montel
Baked into the system. I'm like so, so shook by this.
- [08:00]
Emmy K. McGregan
There was this kind of no land, no rules, Very hedonistic, like what happens at sea stays at sea.
- [08:07]
Amanda Montel
That is so fucking bananas. This is. Sounds like a Cult. A show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host, Amanda Montel, author of the books the Language of Fanaticism and the forthcoming the Age of Magical Overthinking. Every week on the show you're going to hear about a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist, from SoulCycle to spiritual influencers. To try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a culture, but is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A Live youe Life, a Watch your back, or a Get the fuck out level? Cult. After all, the word cult is up to interpretation. It is my personal belief that we are living through the most cultish era of all time. My loves, my culties. In 2024, you could slip and fall into a cult from the comfort of your couch, scrolling through Instagram, perusing Reddit, or going on vacation. That's right, we are doing the highly listener requested Cult of Cruise Ships today. I am so fucking pumped and I'm interviewing a listener. This is something that I have always wanted to do. I've always wanted to involve you culties into more of the process of making this show to really turn Sounds Like a Cult into the proper cult it's always been meant to be. I'm kidding. But yeah, the way that this episode topic came into the picture was I had posted a call for episode topic suggestions at the end of last year. Of course, you listeners are always welcome to email us at Sounds Like a Cult pod to recommend episode topics. We do look at those and then we'll like explicitly request your ideas on Instagram every so often. And normally when the requests come in, like, you know, do horse girls or do Lululemon, often the group is already on our list. Or it's one that we had toyed with at some point but forgotten to put in our little spreadsheet. But Cruise Ships was something that had never occurred to me to add to the list before. But the second it was commented on our Instagram, first of all, it received dozens upon dozens, I want to say, like well over a hundred likes. And the second it was posted, I was like, oh my God, that is a literal genius suggestion. Because much like the cult of Disney adults, there tends to be a pretty strong stereotype out there of who tends to cruise. You know, I think of sunburn. I think of matching neon T shirts, maybe printed with some kind of pun featuring the name of the family who's all cruising together. I think of people losing their fucking minds on all you can drink. Drink mai tais. And I think of people being a little bit territorial over their spot in the dining hall. And I kind of. I do imagine people sort of drunk watching performances by dancers who maybe didn't quite make it into Cirque du Soleil. That's what. I'm sorry. That's what I think of. I don't think I'm the only one that these.
- [11:26]
Emmy K. McGregan
These.
- [11:26]
Amanda Montel
It's a stereotype, and I think it brings out judgment in onlookers the way that Disney adults do. My mom always said that cruises were for the newlywed and the nearly de. And it always just seemed culty to me because it's like a floating capitalist consumerist compound where you literally can't leave because you're in the middle of the ocean surrounded by people who might have E. Coli, but people swear by them. So I couldn't wait to dive in. And as I mentioned, I'd always wanted to do more of, like, an interview, a listener format, and I thought this would be the perfect one because so many listeners responded so passionately to that suggestion. We incorporated a lot of the culty anecdotes that people submitted into the game that we'll be playing at the end of the interview, so please stick around. But there was one listener who wrote in her story, and we were like, oh, my fuck. I could not think of a more perfect guest host for this episode. She did an amazing job. This interview was so much fun. I'm excited for you to hear it. We're going to talk about the hierarchies, the Dionysian rituals, the capitalist horror show and more that exists in the seemingly innocent, but actually pretty terrifying cult of cruising. And with that, I am so excited to welcome our special guest host. She's a former Carnival Cruise employee, so this interview is very much going to be focused on the worker side of the cult of cruising. So juicy. So shocking. She escaped the cult of cruises and is now in the cult of academia, pursuing her master's degree in folklore. So cool. Please give a round of applause in your room or car, all by yourself to. Sounds like a cult listener, Emmy. Attention, renters. If you haven't heard of Bilt yet, you're about to thank me. Earn your favorite hotel points and airline miles through Bilt just by paying your rent. Let me explain. There's no cost to join, and just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. When you pay rent. Through Bilt, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's most valuable points on rent every month. No matter where you are or who your landlord is, your rent now works for you. Second, you gain access to exclusive neighborhood benefits in your city. Bilt's neighborhood benefits are things like extra points on dining out, complimentary post workout shakes, free mats or towels at your favorite fitness studios, and unique experiences that only build members can access. And when you're ready to travel, built points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through BILT and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbuilt.com culture that's J-O-I-N B I-L-T.com cult make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Join bilt.com cult to sign up for Built today, this podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform to help entrepreneurs, artists, podcasters stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it super easy to launch a beautiful website, engage with your audience and sell anything from products to content to even your valuable time. Squarespace is a household name because of their incredible cutting edge features including their design intelligence which combines two decades of industry leading design expertise with a high technology to help you design the website of your dreams that really represents you and your brand. Also, if you want to start a business where you sell things online, Squarespace Payments makes that super easy. You just get set up with a few clicks and can start receiving payments right away. Onboarding is incredibly simple. You can manage all of your payments in one place and you can give customers so many ways to pay. If you're interested in E commerce, Squarespace can make that happen for you. I am a Squarespace user. I have been for four years now. Sounds like a cult.com is a squarespace website. Updating it could not be easier. I could not imagine working with another brand for sounds like a cult's website. So head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com cult to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. Could you introduce yourself and your work to our listeners?
- [16:10]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, so my name is Emma K. McGregan but I go by Emmy. I am currently A part of the cult of academia. And I go to Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am getting my master's in folklore, and my thesis right now will be focusing on occupational folklore.
- [16:25]
Amanda Montel
I love folklorists so much, I didn't really know what they were until I decided that I needed to interview a couple of them for the book that I just finished writing.
- [16:37]
Emmy K. McGregan
So fun and so much bigger than I think the term folklore gives it credit. I know.
- [16:42]
Amanda Montel
I think you think of literally, like, Taylor Swift album Long Braids.
- [16:46]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes.
- [16:47]
Amanda Montel
Cabin in the woods, which we also love. But, like, it's the study of cultural tradition and storytelling and frameworks. Okay. Before we get into today's topic, I just want to ask, what is your relationship to Sounds Like a Cult?
- [17:01]
Emmy K. McGregan
Like, oh, no, I can't tell you the truth.
- [17:06]
Amanda Montel
Tell me the truth.
- [17:07]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, I've been listening to Sounds Like a Cult since early days. I actually heard your promo on Too Hot Takes, and I think I hopped on maybe the third episode, and I've truly listened to every episode. Wow, thanks. No, it was so funny because my brother always makes fun of me because I'm like, oh, did you know this was on Sounds Like a Cult? He's like, not everything's a cult. I'm like, no, it is. And every time he's like, you're just obsessed with cults. I'm like, no, it's because they're everywhere. Yeah, unfortunately, like, absolutely a lover of the podcast.
- [17:41]
Amanda Montel
Thank you so much. Listen, like, there are still. I see people being mad about the baseline premise of the show, which I understand it's a tricky line that this show toes. Not to use boating terminology, but we are joking. This is like one big, cheeky, melodramatic bit. However, we are also making earnest cultural commentary about how fanaticism shows up in contemporary society in places that you might not think to look. And some people cannot hold the sincerity and the jokiness cheekiness in their mind at the same time. But this stuff is subjective. You know, it is very funny. Sometimes we'll get reactions to the exact same episode where some listeners will be like. Like, that is not a cult. And then others will be like, this cult is so much worse than you even made it seem. So this podcast, for sure, it's absurd. And I'm always simultaneously like, outsiders, like, your brother just don't get it. And also, like, I agree with them.
- [18:43]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes.
- [18:45]
Amanda Montel
But the discourse, it's very interesting and more than welcome.
- [18:48]
Emmy K. McGregan
It's the whole point, you know what? And I always say, I like the Term cult, it's got such a dirty kind of connotation that people are like, ooh, you called it a cult? I'm like, it's fun sometimes.
- [18:57]
Amanda Montel
Sometimes no, like, and here's the thing too, is, like, the word cult is so context dependent, there are times when you need to use it in earnest to set the stakes that a group is really damaging. You know, when news of Nexium broke, the word cult was necessary in that context. Speaking of folklore, it was a framework to be like, you know how bad Jonestown was, you know how bad Heaven's Gate was. This is that bad. But the thing about language is that there was no controlling the fact that as soon as the word cult was put on the map, thanks to groups like Jonestown and the Mansons, pop culture grabbed it, you know, as they do. And then it evolved to mean something kind of cool and edgy. And that's why we have terms like cult followed and cult classic. So, like, this podcast rides that line of, like, when does something go from being that fanatical but not actually dangerous cult to like, something more scary? And the word cult can be useful in both contexts. So, anyway, thank you for understanding, but we're here to talk about the cult of damn cruise ship ships. How exactly are you, slash, have you been involved in the Cult of Cruising? Just please tell us your story.
- [20:03]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, so I graduated back in 2018, and I didn't know what to do, and I was like, wouldn't it be fun if I worked on a cruise ship? So I did. So I worked for Carnival cruise lines from August 2018 up until February 9, 2020, which is when I off boarded my last cruise right before the Panty, which was awesome. So I did three different cruises. I did Carnival Valor for four months, and then I went and I did a swing shift for 10 weeks out in New Orleans on Carnival Dream. And then my last cruise was the longest. I think I onboarded June 2019, and then, yeah, off boarded on February 9, 2020. So that one was a long haul.
- [20:43]
Amanda Montel
We got so much support for this idea to do the Cult of Cruise Ships. And I'm wondering from your perspective, why, like, this particular time in cruise culture, but also our culture more broadly? Like, why were people chomping at the bit to listen to an episode on the Cult of Cruising?
- [21:03]
Emmy K. McGregan
Honestly, the one thing that I always heard when I told people I used to work on cruise ships, they'd always be like, oh, have you heard of below deck? But that's about yachts. And I'm like, yeah, I've heard of it. It's different, but there's this idea of being really excited about watching people in a fishbowl. And a cruise ship is just a giant fishbowl. And so I think people, even on the cruise ships, all the guests, very interested what our life was like, what it meant, what happens when you can't leave. What does that look like? Also, too, I think cruises got put in the limelight in a weird way just because of COVID and lockdown and stuff. So I think people are just really curious also on that aspect, what goes on.
- [21:40]
Amanda Montel
Totally. I have that morbid curiosity as well also, because the morbid curiosity in murder stories and true crime can feel like it's a little much like you can burn out on murder. But cruise ships is like the perfect thing to sink your curiosity in into because you're like, well, how bad can it really get? But the answer, as it turns out, is really bad. We'll get into that later. I want to set the scene, though, with a little bit of baseline information, a bit of the history of it, some facts about how monstrous this industry has become. As of December 2021, there were 323 cruise ships operating worldwide with a combined capacity of. Take a deep breath. 581,200 passengers. Okay. Wow. The industry generates an estimated 30 billion with a B dollars annually. And passenger cruising has been around since the 1800s. The cruise company P and O started it all. This cruise company still exists today. Back in the 19th century, this German shipping executive, shipping, as in sending cargo, had the idea to use these massive ocean liners for luxury tourism purposes, where the journey itself would be the destination. So the first executive luxury cruise ship completed construction in 1900. And over the next century, this space exploded. Now we have Princess Cruises, Norwegian Cruise Lines, Royal Caribbean, Carnival Cruises. Shout out. As of late last year, the largest cruise ship, Royal Caribbean's icon of the seas, has has a gross tonnage of nearly 250,000, is nearly 1,200ft long, and holds up to 7,600 passengers. So they're essentially like these floating cities, communes, cults, however you want to phrase it off the bat. Emmy, what are some rituals, traditions, anecdotes and or other fun facts about cruising that outsiders might not know, but that definitely make it sound like a cult?
- [23:41]
Emmy K. McGregan
I think the hard thing is, and you talk about it in a couple of your episodes where there's the cult in terms of the passengers and then there's the cult in terms of the crew members. So I think we each have our own weird traditions. One, I never got to participate in this, unfortunately. But there are cruises that cross the date line, so that go from like Alaska to Australia. And I don't think this is exclusive to cruises, but there is this weird tradition when you cross the date line where like, I think you're throwing spaghetti at the captain, everyone's kissing a fish, and like everyone participates in that. And that feels kind of culty but kind of fun.
- [24:18]
Amanda Montel
Well, that's the thing. I would just love to hear about your personal experience. Before you were hired by Carnival Cruises, had you ever been on a cruise?
- [24:27]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, so I had been on a cruise once before, weirdly enough. Carnival Cruise Lines. So I think I was on Carnival Liberty. It had to be like 2005 or something. We did a simple five day cruise and then really nothing after that. But I love the ocean. And so I was like, it would be so fun to work there. And I mean, it was mostly.
- [24:51]
Amanda Montel
Okay, so you had had like a mostly positive experience. It wasn't that fucking deep. You were just like, I am one with the water. Let's try to turn that into a career. But then what would you say were some of the indications early on in your cruise ship employment that this, this was a little bit culty.
- [25:10]
Emmy K. McGregan
First of all, before you can go on board, you have to do something called like, get your medical. And I, as a Canadian citizen, free health care, had to drop $1,000. And it was basically this laundry list of medical examinations that I had to go through. One of the things I had to get was like a mammogram. But I was 22 at the time. And so my doctor was like, no, we're not doing this. I got a list of medical conditions I wasn't allowed to have, like anxiety, depression, diabetes. Also on the list. It was lengthy. I am an anxious girly, but I was like, can't tell them that. Otherwise I don't get the job. On the medical too, you had to get like all your STIs checked off because they were very open. They're like, yeah, this is a puppy pet. Wait, what?
- [25:57]
Amanda Montel
They were like, you will be fucking on board, so we better make sure you're clean. Was that the implication?
- [26:01]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes, yes, that was exactly the implication. They're like, cruise life. You're living on board 24, 7. Who else are you going to have relations with? Right?
- [26:12]
Amanda Montel
Oh my God, I didn't even think of that.
- [26:14]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, I mean, I get it from one standpoint because they're like some things spread like wildfire so, yeah, I mean.
- [26:21]
Amanda Montel
Speaking of COVID cruise ships are known for being basically a petri dish full of whatever bacteria you could ever dream of or viral matter. Whoa, that's fucking bananas. I never thought about the set sex stuff. We're going to come back to that. So let's talk about the passengers though for a second because there are stereotypes for who goes on cruises. And these are like the cult followers that I imagine. Families with kids who have disposable income but not a lot of desire to have an authentic travel experience. Actually though, like, speaking of the sex, there are stereotypes surrounding like people who go on cruises for, like the swinging aspect. As someone who trafficked in these waters, what do you think passengers find alluring about cruising? What makes them seek this out above any other kind of vacation?
- [27:20]
Emmy K. McGregan
We used to joke that you would know exactly the kind of people that you would see at port depending on what cruise ships were docked. So for example, Carnival Cruise Lines, it's families, that's who they're marketed to. That's who you're getting. Royal Caribbean, your yuppies are gonna be on there. Something like Norwegian, over 55, without a doubt. So the shorter cruises, that would be where you would get families who might not have a lot of money coming on it. And then the longer ones tended to be families that were cruising every year, same company. Because I think what it is is we are creatures of habit. So you can go with the same company, get the same experience, and sometimes you're going to get the same people. So that's kind of nice. I always said it was like taste testing. You got to try out different kind of islands. Especially with the Caribbean cruises. I heard a lot of people actually have done that, go on a cruise, they like an island and then they end up going back to that island for years after.
- [28:15]
Amanda Montel
Ah, like the free samples at Trader Joe's.
- [28:18]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes, I get it.
- [28:20]
Amanda Montel
But actually, I think what I'm hearing is that there's a comforting sense of predictability that comes with cruising that can make you feel really held during a time and amidst a life of chaos, which is like the allure of a lot of cults. You know, there is structure. You will know exactly where you're supposed to be at what specific time. It's like you are going to be taken care of. You have prepaid for that. And then also this sense of surrender. It's like I am setting myself off to sea. I don't have to worry about shit. I'm literally leaving my problems on land and shipping myself off to the middle of nowhere. And that can feel probably like a real release. It's the same reason why people like join the cult of Burning man and shit with a different flavor.
- [29:07]
Emmy K. McGregan
Much different flavor.
- [29:10]
Amanda Montel
Okay, so I'm gonna summarize a little bit of the origin story of this quote unquote cult and how it became the explosively consumerist industry that competes for members loyalty with escalating extravagances. According to a CNN article titled The Love Boat How a TV Show Transformed the Cruise Industry, quote, There were only 40 cruise ships in the 1980s with an addition of 80 vessels in the 90s and a 40% increase between the years of 2000 and 2005. Nowadays multiple cruise lines compete for patronage and gain allegiances not unlike airlines. Royal Caribbean and Carnival, okay, Alma Mater are, are the two biggest and different cruise lines offer different sizes of ship, price points, travel routes, themes and rules, and point and mile reward systems offer passengers exclusive perks. The more that they cruise with a specific line or the more money that you spend. Now let's talk about the company side. What's the farthest you've seen a cruise company go to gain loyalty?
- [30:11]
Emmy K. McGregan
So on the back end we as team members were really encouraged to make it seem like the passengers were like the coolest people ever. You were encouraged. And not just encouraged, but required to make it so that everyone feels so special. So then they're like, oh, I love this company. So like we would get a certain stipend of chocolate covered strawberries that we had to send to the guests. You were given a specific allowance of how many bottles of champagne you would be allowed to send to the cabins for free. I was a youth staff so I worked with kids and so it was required of us. You would have to send out a certain amount of letters written to the kids per cruise being like, thank you so much little Johnny, it was such an honor to you. And if you didn't do those things you would actually get write ups.
- [30:57]
Amanda Montel
No.
- [30:58]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah. And the way that they would track it is at the end of the cruise you would get a survey. So if your name was mentioned in a survey, a plus for you. And if your name wasn't mentioned in the survey or worse, if it was like said something bad, you would get a write up or demerit points. And so I think when you look at it from that point, this false sense of awe towards, towards the passengers to make them feel really loved, it feels a little culty.
- [31:23]
Amanda Montel
I mean you had a literal love bomb quota.
- [31:27]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Amanda Montel
Baked into the System. I'm like so, so shook by this. It is also literally reminding me of Trader Joe's. It's like Trader Joe's x1000. Wait, Trader Joe's has a nautical theme too. What is going on? A conspiracy.
- [31:46]
Emmy K. McGregan
It's the boats.
- [31:47]
Amanda Montel
Trader Joe's should X collab with Carnival Cruises. A Trader Joe's cruise, all you can eat cookie butter. Can you imagine the loyalty and also like this toxic positivity that you're supposed to embody as an employee? It's very much again in the same category as like the cult of Disney adults. We are just truly forcing a separation between real life and this escapist moment that I totally understand, but at the same time can mask some insidiousness. What's the most over the top perk you've seen for a high ranking passenger?
- [32:30]
Emmy K. McGregan
Well, one of the crazy things that I saw was in the casino, if you lost enough money, they would pay for your future cruises. And so there was like one woman I was talking to who she's like, yeah, in the past five years we've been on like X amount of cruises and three of them are free because my husband just spends so much money.
- [32:48]
Amanda Montel
Wow. Speaking of break you down to build you up.
- [32:51]
Emmy K. McGregan
I mean, I guess it makes sense. If they're spending enough money, why wouldn't you give them free cruises? I do know people were really excited because your cards are dependent about how many days you cruise. So I do remember a couple people who they'd be going from one rank to the other in the middle of their cruise. So they go up to guest services and they're like, I want my gold card. Did they get any perks or was it just the status symbol? I don't really know.
- [33:15]
Amanda Montel
Okay, so there were like different color cards or lanyards or whatever that would show you where along the passenger hierarchy you fell. And reaching gold status, say in the middle of your trip felt like some profound accomplishment. Yeah, I mean, all cults have something like this, like a nexium sash, this symbolic gesture that like, you are superior, that actually doesn't have any inherent value. Can you talk a little bit about your role? Like, please just tell me about what you had to do.
- [33:47]
Emmy K. McGregan
Okay. Yeah. So I worked within the entertainment department and so we were called Youth staff and we provided the entertainment to the youth. So on Carnival there are like three tiers. There's Camp Ocean, Circle C, and then Club 02. Camp Ocean is for ages 12 to 14, I believe. And then Club 02 is for ages 15 to 17. And then Circle C is ages is 2 to 11. So I kind of primarily work for the 2 to 11 year olds. I was also what you would call an animator. So Carnival Cruise Lines does have affiliations with Dr. Seuss. So I was friends, wink, wink, with Sam. I am. And Thing two. And my favorite, the Grinch.
- [34:32]
Amanda Montel
Only Thing two?
- [34:34]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah. Because I couldn't be both.
- [34:37]
Amanda Montel
Wait, wait. Sorry. I'm so dumb. Can you explain what you're saying? You were friends with them.
- [34:42]
Emmy K. McGregan
Sorry. So this is so this is like a Disney thing. But like for Disney, you're not allowed to say that you were ever a character. You always have to say you were friends with them.
- [34:50]
Amanda Montel
Oh.
- [34:51]
Emmy K. McGregan
So I played Sam. I am Thing two. And the Grinch was my favorite to be. And then my last contract, I ended up training to be assistant youth director. So that's when things kind of turned a bit culty because I basically was working 24 7.
- [35:05]
Amanda Montel
Explain, like, what happened to you.
- [35:07]
Emmy K. McGregan
Well, just because, like, you have a cell phone and you have to be available, 247 ended up getting short staffed. So for the month of December, I truly don't think I got off the boat. I got really sick. Was it Covid? I don't know because it was around that time. But when I was really sick, I was trying to remember the last time I had touched land. And it had literally been a month.
- [35:30]
Amanda Montel
When you say that, I mean, I can relate to the feeling. I actually love that as a phrase if you work from home or like, if you have no boundaries separating your life and your work and you don't remember the last time you, like, enjoyed yourself. I like the idea of saying, I don't remember the last time I touched land. But for you it was actually true.
- [35:47]
Emmy K. McGregan
No, it was really true because there were certain rules too where, like, if I was getting off the boat, I would have to designate someone to be in my position to hold my cell phone in case an emergency happened. And again, we were short staffed. There was a multitude of situations. So, like, I was most senior rank. December is always the busiest time on Carnival cruises, especially as youth staff. We double the size of kids. Kids.
- [36:11]
Amanda Montel
It sounds like a lowercase T. Trauma.
- [36:13]
Emmy K. McGregan
Well, this is the thing is, I think there's a lot of stuff in hindsight where like, you know, just getting ready for this episode I was looking back on, I was like, oh, I forgot about that because it was tucked away somewhere far.
- [36:25]
Amanda Montel
Well, and also, like, when your nervous system is bombarded with too much shit to even process. And this is what classic Cults do too. They just overwhelm your system. They colonize all of your time with, with tasks, chaos rituals that don't make sense. And then you don't even have time to question. You're just running on fumes to the point where, like, it's not that you block out the memories of like, every individual exploitative event, it's that you weren't able to even catalog the memory in the first place because of the onslaught. And that that's a way that cults retain their followers a lot of the time. It's just like, you don't, you don't have a second to fucking process.
- [37:08]
Emmy K. McGregan
No, you really don't. Like, one of the craziest things about it is like, you're not allowed to have a day off. It's against the rules. So, for example, we would get in trouble if we didn't clock minimum 60 hours per week. And like, I'm not talking in trouble for my boss. I'm talking like, shore side would be like, hey, we noticed they only clocked 58 hours. You better get on that.
- [37:29]
Amanda Montel
What's shore side?
- [37:31]
Emmy K. McGregan
Like corporation hq?
- [37:33]
Amanda Montel
God.
- [37:34]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Side.
- [37:36]
Amanda Montel
Shore side is what they were called. Holy fuck. Okay, so for me, when I think of the cult of a cruise ship, that isolation, that floating compound element instantly springs to mind. You're a living and breathing example of someone who like, could not leave whose God was named Shoreside. Okay, so let's talk about the entertainment aspect. The very, very first cruise ship, back over 100 years ago, it had a library, a gymnasium, and, and a dark room for the development of film by amateur photographers. But to compete with expanding markets, over time, cruise liners have added more and more amenities. Some of the most intense that I've come across include skydiving and escape rooms. Famously, most cruises offer extensive live entertainment, which creates a whole little culture of its own. What would you say makes the entertainment industry on cruises unique from the on land entertainment industry? And what about it is cultier?
- [38:38]
Emmy K. McGregan
I think there's like a lot of similarities in terms of performers being put on a pedestal above everyone else. But I think one of the differences is along this idea of just making passengers feel really special, the performers are encouraged to socialize with the passengers on their off time. So like, as part of your job, you are supposed to go and have drinks with the passengers and be like, oh, I'm just casually here. So then like, you can talk to me and feel like closer in on the performance.
- [39:10]
Amanda Montel
It is very much like I have Power over you. But I'm one of you. I'm like relatably aspirational.
- [39:16]
Emmy K. McGregan
And they know it. They know that the passengers want to know what's going on. So they like do it, feed into it, talk to them, chat them up. Another thing too, in terms of entertainment, you're only allowed to be sick so many times. And so one of the ways that they allow performers to continue performing is you pre record. They're called Larry Tracks. And they're called Larry Tracks. Case you get laryngitis and you basically perform the whole show and you are lip syncing to yourself to.
- [39:44]
Amanda Montel
To Larry.
- [39:45]
Emmy K. McGregan
To Larry. To Larry. But yeah, so like if you're having an off day, you can opt in to do your Larry's instead, but you can only do so many Larry's because if you're doing too many Larry's then it will be flagged and you know, you might get rid and shoreside will yell at you. Yes, sure. Side because they're the ones who are getting the report.
- [40:05]
Amanda Montel
I get it now.
- [40:07]
Emmy K. McGregan
You're there. You're here with me.
- [40:08]
Amanda Montel
Okay, okay, okay. So what happens if shore side is like this person has one too many Larry's and it's not flirting enough with the gold guard.
- [40:18]
Emmy K. McGregan
So. Well, one is you're never guaranteed a contract. And two, there are certain contracts that are better, there's certain cruise ships that are better. And so your performance dictates whether or not you get another contract and where you get put. So if you're not doing so hot this contract, you're not getting a good choice next time you're probably going to be put on a bad route, maybe with some bad shows. And this is across the board on all accounts. For example, shorter cruises suck ass because the turnaround time is so much quicker. So if I work on a three to four day cruise, you're doing disembark and embarkation closer together. And those are really hard days. And also because it's, this is horrible to say, but a shorter cruise means it's cheaper and cheaper cruises. People tend to be me.
- [41:07]
Amanda Montel
Yeah, well, we hate to say it, but I mean it's like it's the way, it's the way that I've, I, you know, I've heard that flight attendants prefer to work first class. I've heard that. You know, I'm recalling, I once, I must have been high. I once upon consuming an edible, watched a long YouTube video just about how, how to park a cruise ship in the dock. Because it's like a whole three day planning period to figure out how to fit that city on water into that little tiny area like the Earth. Planet Earth was not built to accommodate a vessel that large. So like parking it alone. It's just insane is I guess the point or no, the point is crucial. Ships like in a way shouldn't exist. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [42:31]
Emmy K. McGregan
Of $45 for a 3 month plan.
- [42:32]
Amanda Montel
Equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com Put us in a box.
- [42:42]
Emmy K. McGregan
Go ahead.
- [42:44]
Amanda Montel
That just gives us something to break out of because the next generation 2025 GS GMC terrain elevation is raising the standard of what comes standard. As far as expectations go, why meet them when you can shatter them? What we choose to challenge, we challenge completely. We are professional grade. Visit gmc.com to learn more. So I want to talk more about the hierarchy that exists within employees. So so I was learning that cruise ships have a super complex employment structure with multiple mini branches and hierarchies within it. Top of the top of course is. Well, it sounds like it's shoreside, but top of the top on the cruise itself is the captain. And then you have the staff who can be divided into like officers who handle the business and the boaty things and the staff who manage hospitality and the crew AKA support support staff. And that officer status is codified on a stripe system. So captains and chief engineers have four stripes, whereas various other positions might have three. And I also learned from so many of the emails that we received from other listeners that crew uniforms themselves can create a power imbalance that is often abused. That can create an atmosphere of racial microaggressions and sexual harassment. Many of the emails we received from other listeners mentioned that the general culture of cruising is a breeding ground for less than welcoming behavior toward passengers and employees of color. So my question for you is from your experience, what ways are employees made to feel a culty power imbalance while working in the cruise industry?
- [44:32]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, so you really hit on something that I always found was super duper culty, which is the difference between crew staff and officers. So this isn't just about where you work, it's also about where you sleep. And it's also about where you're allowed to go on the boat crew is your waiters, your waitresses, your bar staff, housekeeping and everything. So on Carnival, they live below deck and they're going to be in a room which is two people, and then they're going to share a bathroom with another room of two people. They have to do all their own laundry, they have to clean everything. It used to be a thing where they were able to only eat in the crew dining hall. But on my last ship that I was on, the crew dining hall and the staff dining hall were considered on equal ground. But prior to that, crew could only eat. And crew and staff were allowed to eat in staff or crew. So staff are guest relations, guest services, shore excursions, casino, youth, staff, entertainment, et cetera. So we are one, we are allowed and encouraged to be in guest areas as a crew member. You're not allowed to go in a guest area if you're not in uniform and if you're not working.
- [45:37]
Amanda Montel
Wow.
- [45:38]
Emmy K. McGregan
So if you're off, off, you can't be seen. Literally. You have to get special permission if you want to eat in the dining hall. That would be given if it was like your birthday or your anniversary. And then like, as a staff member, I was allowed to go wherever I wanted as long as I had my name tag on. Like, that was completely fine. And so the difference in rooms is I would share a room, but I had my own cabin steward who cleaned my room every day. And I got free laundry of my staff uniforms. It's kind of crazy that, like, I'm working with someone who is cleaning my room. Like, it's culty.
- [46:08]
Amanda Montel
What I'm hearing is like the dehumanization and stratification that granted might exist in a more subtle way in other industries. Here is represented so blatantly by like the spaces that you're allowed to go in, what you're allowed to wear, where you're allowed to eat. What does that do psychologically to people?
- [46:28]
Emmy K. McGregan
The other crazy thing is, like, you could tell what country someone was from based of what department they worked in. Because Shoreside only recruits in certain countries for certain departments, apartments. And so if you want to elevate your status and become a staff, you would have to work at least two contracts in your designated so, for example, housekeeping, Indonesia, Philippines. That's it. If you were to work in restaurants, you're probably going to be Russian, Ukrainian, from Belarus. If you were working as a bartender, you tended to be from the Caribbean islands. And the only place that Americans, Canadians, Australians, people from England, Ireland, Scotland worked was an entertainment. Entertainment. They wouldn't work anywhere else because no other department paid enough. So like housekeeping would make 500American a month. And they were working 12, 14 hour days, seven days a week.
- [47:19]
Amanda Montel
What the fuck?
- [47:20]
Emmy K. McGregan
So that was the thing is, like, as a youth staff, like I was in a highly coveted position because most of the people that I worked with, they had to do a couple contracts somewhere else. But as a Canadian, I wouldn't be hired to work in any other department.
- [47:34]
Amanda Montel
That is so fucking banana. That is so fucking bananas.
- [47:39]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, Even the spa, the spa was mostly South Africans. So that was the thing is, if you saw anyone in entertainment, literally it was, it was a game where like, I'm like, I actually know what you did before you came to this position. And I personally was always really grossed out about it. I'm like, I don't like that you only go to that one country for that one position. I don't think we should be doing that, guys.
- [48:01]
Amanda Montel
Really exploitative and creepy. Like, at best, I want to continue talking about these darker sides of the industry, including this labor exploitation that you're describing. So I learned from this very interesting piece published in the Saturday Evening Post called the Dark side of the Cruise Ship Industry that cruise lines, while often based in the US will register ships in other countries with what are called open registries, meaning that cruise lines aren't beholden to American minimum wage standards or any other labor standards for that matter. Matter. This article said, quote, cruise lines gain another enormous advantage by registering as a foreign corporation. The Internal Revenue Code exempts any income from airlines or ships from taxation as long as the foreign nation gives the same benefit. And legislation has tried to combat this over the years, but because the cruise industry is so profitable, it's been very difficult. What do you think is the most unethically culty part of cruises as a business?
- [49:02]
Emmy K. McGregan
Oh, truly, I think it's insane that you're expected to work seven days a week for nine months on end. And I was working short contracts too, so like nine months was the minimum that housekeeping would have to do. And that was always something where I'm like, man, could you imagine? I totally forget that I did that for like eight months. I worked seven days a week for eight months.
- [49:25]
Amanda Montel
It sounds like unheard of to me. It's like all of a sudden you're like on run the water and like all Bets are off. And you don't even have to treat people like human beings. Like, not a single day off. That doesn't make sense.
- [49:39]
Emmy K. McGregan
No. And also too, the minute that you get onboarded, they take away your passport and it's locked up and you don't see it until the day that you disembark.
- [49:49]
Amanda Montel
Why?
- [49:50]
Emmy K. McGregan
Because they're afraid that you're using the cruise ship to illegally immigrant somewhere. So what you would get is you would be given your cruise id. And your cruise ID is considered a legal document. So like if I go on land, all I have is this and so I could use it at a bar if like I needed to be ID or something like it works. But they take away your passport. And then to that end there's something called Port Manning. There's a rule that at any given time there has to be X amount of crew on a cruise ship in case of an emergency. So in order to meet those minimum requirements set out by the Coast Guard, each department has a certain amount of positions. And to make sure that you're filling it, you have those people on Port Manning, which is where they take away your ID id. So now you literally have nothing and they lock it up so that you cannot get off the boat in case of an emergency.
- [50:36]
Amanda Montel
It's as culty as it gets.
- [50:37]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah.
- [50:38]
Amanda Montel
Okay. I want to just transition into talking about some general culty cruise culture. Icks. This is another thing that's always given me the creeps a little bit about cruise culture from a passenger standpoint is that there's often such little emphasis on engaging with the places or learning about the places that are visited beyond these sort of sterilized ports. So it's the same reason why resorts sometimes give me the heebie jeebies, because you're not truly engaging with the culture that you're patronizing in a respectful way. It's also said that these cruise ships are sort of not really travel experiences, but rather microcosms of the same sort of upper middle class life that passengers are living at home anyway. And another thing that's more subtly culty is that on cruise ships they encourage a turn off your mind vacation style, which like, what is cultier than encouraging your flock to turn off their mind?
- [51:42]
Emmy K. McGregan
There was one cruise where we would go to Cozumel first and then we would go to Progreso, which is also in Mexico. And like, because Progreso wasn't at as flashy, most people wouldn't even get off the boat. Which I think just kind of goes to show that they wanted to be indoctrinated into, like, this flashy kind of cruise resort style. And when it was a bit, I know, less Las Vegasy, less flashy, they were like, I'm good.
- [52:06]
Amanda Montel
Which brings me to the sort of Dionysian pleasure cult side of this. Sociologist Ross Klein said that the cruise industry bases its marketing on the sexual possibilities available on cruises, exemplified in names like the Allure of the Seas, Carnival, Ecstasy island, escape, carnival, fantasy, etc. And on the more adult catered cruises, there is this hedonistic party culture that can encourage people to shed their normal standards. Something I've found remarkable just anecdotally from hearing about people's cruise experiences is that they often lure you into purchasing these all you can drink alcohol packages where you're basically drunk and compromised the whole time in an attempt to get your money's worth. Is that something you've encountered?
- [53:02]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes, 100%. I have definitely seen passengers be like, this is so expensive. I've had to drink so much. And I'm like, that doesn't mean all you can drink. It's all you want to drink. So I definitely would agree with that in terms of, like, passengers. And honestly, I think it goes also for, like, the crew.
- [53:22]
Amanda Montel
Tell me.
- [53:23]
Emmy K. McGregan
Okay, first of all, I think your body, your choice. I also am totally fine with polyamory if that is an agreement between you and your partner. However, the amount of people that you knew had a husband, that you knew had a wife. I actually was dating a guy that everyone knew was married except for me.
- [53:41]
Amanda Montel
Stop it.
- [53:42]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah. And so I found out and I was like, you're literally married. And he's like, well, everyone else knew. And I was like, no, I'm okay. Thank you, though.
- [53:51]
Amanda Montel
I cannot get over this culture of, like, no land, no rules.
- [53:56]
Emmy K. McGregan
And that's what it was. It was the kind of thing where I worked with someone who for 17 years, she was someone's mistress because he would go on land and be with his wife, and then they would go on cruises and they would be together.
- [54:09]
Amanda Montel
Stop it.
- [54:10]
Emmy K. McGregan
It just definitely there was this kind of, yeah, no land, no rules. Very hedonistic, like, what happens at sea, stays at sea.
- [54:18]
Amanda Montel
I mean, and again, with consent and with a certain amount of controlled chaos. Fine. But I hinted at the idea earlier in this episode that things can and have gotten really bad in terms of cruise ship culture and all these culty conditions. And I want to sort of, just to set the stakes, summarize a worst case scenario. So I don't know if you've heard of this, but in 2002 there was a pretty notorious cruise ship related death. The death of Diane Brimble. Have you heard of this person?
- [54:52]
Emmy K. McGregan
No, I've heard of some sad deaths on cruises, but I haven't heard of that one.
- [54:56]
Amanda Montel
So in 2002 Diane Brimble died on a P and O cruise ship. It was the first night of her trip after these men poisoned her with a date rape drug. She died from the effects of this drug under these super humiliating circumstances. I mean it was really awful. This woman was a mother. And described by those who knew her as proud, brutish. The tragedy was just very shocking and awful. The men who did this were charged with manslaughter, though there was never any manslaughter conviction. But not only that, her family had to wait four years to get her fare refunded. Which just reflects the sort of consumerist nightmare, the bureaucratic hellscape that the cruise industry can so often create. And the laws are actually really complicated, complex because again, ships are often between countries. So this like no land, no rules thing, it's kind of real because if someone dies on board and they're in the fucking Bermuda Triangle, like who's meant to hold them accountable for that? You know, what are the cruise ship deaths that you've heard of?
- [56:02]
Emmy K. McGregan
It's actually super sad. But there was one, I think it was Royal Caribbean when I was. My last cruise ship was out of San Juan and it was a two year old old.
- [56:11]
Amanda Montel
Oh Jesus.
- [56:13]
Emmy K. McGregan
Fell out of a window when grandpa wasn't watching.
- [56:16]
Amanda Montel
Oh God. I feel like I've heard those stories too. What happens, like how do the cruise.
- [56:21]
Emmy K. McGregan
Lines respond if there is a death on board? Like every cruise has a morgue and every cruise also has a break. So you can put someone in jail on this cruise ship and you could put someone up in a morgue. I say that so casually.
- [56:33]
Amanda Montel
Wow. Well, it was your life.
- [56:35]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah.
- [56:36]
Amanda Montel
So before we play a little game, I feel as though we have to talk about the nine month cruise. So for those unawares, Royal Caribbean has taken the floating cult compound concept to the next level. There is a nine month cruise. It's called the Royal Caribbean Ultimate World Cruise. It's gotten kind of TikTok famous. It set sail December 10th of 2023. It will be at sea for 275 and is expected to return to Miami on September 10th of this year. And ticket prices range from between $53,999 to over $117,000 per person. There's already of course been a Covid outbreak and a host of other issues. The first scheduled port was canceled. There's been flooding on deck. Here's my favorite. Some passengers have started a TikTok reality show called the Ultimate Real World Cruise. One of these tiktokers said, our people at dinner are like family already. So people are really bonding. Do you think the nine month cruise will emerge as a cult of its own?
- [57:47]
Emmy K. McGregan
When I heard of it, I'm like, yeah, it makes sense because people can work from home now why don't you just work on a cruise? Especially with like the housing market the way it is. But the thing is this has kind of been going on for years in terms of, I don't know the exact company, but I've heard tell of people who instead of retiring actually just live on cruise ships because it's cheaper than going to retirement home.
- [58:09]
Amanda Montel
That whole attitude toward cruising just reflects like how unsustainable American life is in general. It's like when a system is broken, you join a cult. And here's the cruise industry ready to be that cult.
- [58:22]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, so I don't know. Unfortunately I'm like, yeah, I get it. Literally, I really do get wanting to live on a cruise ship. I did it for two years. Years.
- [58:37]
Amanda Montel
Okay, now we're going to play a little game. It's called Culty or Just Cringe Cruise Ship Edition. The premise is the following. I'm going to read you a sequence of anecdotes that other listeners emailed in about their experiences on a cruise, whether they stayed on one or were working on one. And there's no way to lose this game. But your task is to determine if these moments are culty or just cringe. Okay. A listener named Sarah hello said that she went on a social impact cruise with Carnival in 2015. She says that when the ship would make stops, quote, instead of drinking margaritas on the beach beach. You would go install a concrete floor in someone's home in the Dominican Republic or replant trees in a deforested area, or work in a women's cooperative, which to me just sounds very like Peace corps, cult of Mormon mission trips, cult of voluntourism combined with the cult of cruising. Do you think that this is culty.
- [59:45]
Emmy K. McGregan
Or just cringe like it's culty, but like, like, unfortunately I totally did one of those things for work. Like we got off and we gave Christmas presents to like a school and there were options for guests on certain ports to do outreach work instead of doing a shore excursion. So I'm like that makes sense. It's very voluntourism, which is culty.
- [60:09]
Amanda Montel
Oh my God, it's culty. It's like this cruise will save you and this cruise is saving the world.
- [60:14]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yes, exactly, exactly.
- [60:16]
Amanda Montel
Okay, number two, Culty or just cringe? Several listeners noted that passengers on cruise ships all wear matching T shirts a la Disneyland all the time for any reason. Shirt sayings might include, oh shit, it's a family trip. That's one shirt slogan that was literally sent in by a listener and Royal Caribbean crew member named Jonathan. So thank you very much. Those T shirts, are they culty or just cringe?
- [60:46]
Emmy K. McGregan
I just think they're cringe. I think they're kind of fun. Also. It's really useful. Like we've had families do that and I'd be like, man, I know who your mom is. I'm going to go find her. I really, I'm actually here for it. It's a tactic we use to not lose children. And if you don't want to lose your husband, I respect that.
- [61:05]
Amanda Montel
I think it's just cringe as well. Number three, a listener named Emily said that at her semester at sea, which is like study abroad, basically on a cruise, she had to deal with dock time. If you were late getting back to the ship by the required time, you would have to spend X number of hours on the ship at the next port, one hour of dock time for every 15 minutes late. She said one night I had trouble finding the ship access. I ended up at the end the of industrial port instead of the passenger port and had six hours of dock time in the next spot. Dock time culty or just cringe?
- [61:40]
Emmy K. McGregan
Culty. But also I'm so glad they waited for her because they told us regularly they would not wait for us or passengers. They'd just leave the threats.
- [61:52]
Amanda Montel
Okay, this is summarizing like a general point that I'm getting which is like the system of rewards and punishments is very, very culty within cruises. Okay, next one. Culty or just cringe? Listener and cruise ship entertainer Jeannie said, you date guys you would never in real life partially because they are also shippies and you have so much in common. Lots of mutual understanding. That's very specific to ship life. You feel like your non ship friends just don't get you, how you live, what you go through. Many shippies marry each other. That's how I met my husband. Culty or just cringe?
- [62:31]
Emmy K. McGregan
No, it's culty. And this is kind of the exit cost of leaving. Like if you are in A relationship with someone who's on a cruise ship. Especially if you're from different countries, it's really difficult for some people to get visas. So you stay on cruise ships to stay with your partner.
- [62:47]
Amanda Montel
I was gonna say that's a great point in terms of exit costs, because I was like, well, you get off the ship, you move on with your life. But, like, if your whole life has been constructed around this culture, now you're kind of in for life.
- [63:00]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah.
- [63:00]
Amanda Montel
Okay, last one. Culty or just cringe? Listener Jen says of some of the fellow passengers on a cruise out of England. She went on, quote, these people take two to three cruises a year to avoid going home to the high cost of oil and utilities in Britain. The wonderful staff become like nurses aides who know the phone numbers of the customer's children, especially the ones that get too drunk and often have mishaps. Culty or just cringe. Staying on this ship and building a whole life to avoid the challenges of real life.
- [63:33]
Emmy K. McGregan
It's kind of both. Like, it is culty, but also life is expensive. So it's. It's kind of giving like rich sugar, baby.
- [63:43]
Amanda Montel
For sure, for sure, for sure. Oh, my God. Emmy, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this interview and for participating in culty. Or just cringe. Now we have arrived at our culty verdict, where I asked the ultimate question out of our three cult categories. A live your life, a watch your back, and a get the fuck out. Which one do you think the cult of cruises falls into?
- [64:09]
Emmy K. McGregan
Honestly, I really think it's a watch your back. I. I loved working on the cruises, and I loved that I don't work on them anymore. And I am thankful for those two years. Like, it was a really sick lifestyle. But also the one thing I will tell people is you have to be a very specific person, and you need to be okay that you are that kind of a person. And if you're not that kind of person, get the out. Fair.
- [64:35]
Amanda Montel
Fair. I love that you're like, I am not a victim, but I will not be going. Going back.
- [64:40]
Emmy K. McGregan
Yeah, exactly. Simple.
- [64:42]
Amanda Montel
Yeah, I agree. It's definitely a watcher back. It's like, so. Not for me. The whole thing I find infinitely cringe, but that doesn't mean it's a get the fuck out just because I feel judgy about it. I think it's. I agree. I think it is a watcher back. It's like, for the passengers almost to.
- [65:00]
Emmy K. McGregan
Live your life level, you know, honestly, like, if you can afford it, I would say yeah, it's pretty. Live your life. The only thing is, I'm like, be aware that, you know, this is curated towards you. As much as you think your housekeeper loves you, they also just want the tip.
- [65:16]
Amanda Montel
Yeah, okay, never mind. I actually, I retract and I replace my answer. I actually think that the whole damn thing is a watcher back. Holy shit. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty.
- [65:33]
Emmy K. McGregan
But now not too culty.
- [65:41]
Amanda Montel
Sounds Like a Cult is hosted and produced by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. This episode was made with production help from Katie Epperson. Our intern is Reese Oliver. Thank you as well to our partner, all things comedy. And if you like the show, please feel free to check out my book, Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Cultish the Language of Fanaticism and the the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality. If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. With the American Express Gold card, I can earn four times membership rewards points at US Supermarkets. So with all these groceries, I'm also getting points. Learn more@americanexpress.com US Explore Gold Terms and Points cap apply.