The Cult of Fantasy Football

Summary

Sounds Like A Cult — The Cult of Fantasy Football

Podcast: Sounds Like A Cult
Episode: The Cult of Fantasy Football
Host: Chelsea Charles (with Amanda Montell, cameo)
Guest: Kimmi Chex (NFL Network, Fantasy Football Analyst)
Date: November 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the fascinating—and sometimes absurd—world of fantasy football, interrogating whether its spreadsheet-heavy, group chat-dominating rituals truly tick the boxes of a modern cult. Host Chelsea Charles and NFL media personality Kimmi Chex break down the inner workings, traditions, and sometimes toxic behaviors that define fantasy football, while exploring its role as both community-builder and potential obsession.

“It’s like stock trading for guys who peaked in high school, but with way more group chats.” – Chelsea Charles (05:44)

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Makes Fantasy Football "Culty"?

• Hive Mind & Rituals: Listeners describe a “testosterone-fueled, beer-drinking, women-will-never-understand attitude” and “hive mind” mentality.
  • “Just when you think they’ve had enough, the cult dangles that carrot with a small Monday Night Football win and they’re back with just enough hope to keep them hooked.” – Listener Kimora (02:46)
• Fantasy as Lifestyle:
  • Communities form around group chats, punny team names, draft parties, and superstitious rituals (lucky jerseys, draft traditions).
  • Entry requirements, inside jokes, and jargon can be forms of gatekeeping.

2. Origins & Evolution of Fantasy Football

• Started as a niche hobby in 1962 in a Manhattan hotel room by football die-hards.
• Blossomed into a billion-dollar industry with 60+ million players, thanks to ESPN coverage and fantasy apps. Now linked to high-stakes gambling and even legal drama.

“It’s not just a game, it’s a way of life.” – Chelsea Charles (12:24)

3. The Pull of Community

• Kimmi explains the appeal:
  • Regular reunions (like her cousin’s 20-year league, with red “champion” jackets and championship rings).
  • Traditions and rituals “give you a sense of community in a positive way,” especially in a divisive cultural climate (14:01).
• Rituals (draft parties, lucky charms, trash talk) create “collective effervescence” (21:40), tightening bonds.
• “If it gives them some happiness or some sense of community, all the power to you.” – Kimmi Chex (15:21)

4. Gatekeeping & Gender Gaps

• Fantasy football can feel exclusionary—language/jargon serve as barriers, and “bro code” can persist.
  • “The reason why maybe I wasn’t engaging is because it was kind of this gate-keeping, old man…guys world.” – Kimmi Chex (22:35)
• Kimmi notes the shift:
  • Fantasy now serves as an “easy way for new football fans to engage”—kids, women, and even complete beginners.
  • Gender gap still exists; women must often “prove you deserve to be there.”

“When a group makes you feel like you have to earn your way to be seen, that’s hierarchy, my friends. That’s where the cultiest part of fantasy football lives.” – Chelsea Charles (30:29)

• Advice for women in sports:
  • “It’s not chasing the thing that seems glamorous…It’s chasing the why. The highlight reel on Instagram is not the grind.” – Kimmi Chex (36:54)
  • “We are inclusive, we are kind, and we know our shit. And that’s just bottom line.” – Kimmi Chex (34:17)

5. The Sunk Cost Fallacy & Emotional Toll

• People get “in too deep”—devoted after big buy-ins or long seasons, refusing to abandon failed picks.
  • “That, my friends, is the sunk cost fallacy.” – Chelsea Charles (43:34)
• Example: The chaos following Damar Hamlin’s on-field collapse (45:01).
  • Fantasy players obsessed over points for canceled games, overshadowing real-world health crisis.
  • “Y’all are lost in the sauce—we need to rewind.” – Kimmi Chex (46:00)
• Players themselves are sometimes unfairly targeted online for “bad” performances (“Don’t tag them—this is y’all’s fake game, their real job!” – Kimmi Chex, 46:30)

6. Financial Risks, Gambling, and Legal Scandals

• The 2015 DraftKings & FanDuel scandal: Data leaks, accusations of insider trading, FBI/DOJ investigations.
• Gambling can tip the scales from harmless hobby to destructive obsession.

“With anything, there’s a fine line between it becoming fun and becoming obsessive…and that’s where it can become an issue.” – Kimmi Chex (51:00)

• Personal stories:

  • A caller and a read-aloud story about gambling addiction and divorce highlight the real-world consequences (54:15).

• Public Service:

  • “If you need help with gambling, go get help, because it’s real. All of this was born out of entertainment and community.” – Kimmi Chex (53:30)

7. Culty or Committed? (Rapid Fire Game)

Segment (57:18):

• PowerPoint presentations for draft day — “Committed. That’s so sweet.”
• Wearing unwashed lucky jersey — “Committed but funky.”
• Flying to Vegas for the draft — “Love, committed. That’s fun.”
• Editing your draft strategy at work — “That’s committed. Work can be stressful, so more power to you.”
• Declining a wedding for playoffs — “That’s culty. Suspect. A little off.”

8. The Verdict: Is Fantasy Football a Cult?

• Kimmi Chex: "Live your life" — most participants keep it fun, social, and positive.
• Chelsea Charles: "Watch your back" — fun with a slippery slope; gambling and obsession can tip the scales.

“I think it’s 100% live your life. Do you. Celebrate it. Watch yourself if you are engaging in ways that seem a little cray cray…and have a trusted advisor or friend who is not scared to check you.” – Kimmi Chex (60:28)
“It can get a little dangerous when you start adding money…So just gonna say watch your back a little bit.” – Chelsea Charles (60:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Once you get into fantasy football, you legitimately join a cult. Because I've never been able to, like, break free from the shackles of that fantasy experience.” – Kimmi Chex (07:40)

• “Draft day isn’t just a party, it’s a performance.” – Quoted by Chelsea Charles (20:44)

• “This is y’alls fake game. This is my real job. Like, leave me alone.” – Kimmi Chex on players being harassed by fantasy fans (46:30)

• “It begins with community, it begins with routine, and before you know it, you’re sacrificing your savings and your stability. And the most dangerous part is how normalized it can all seem in the beginning.” – Chelsea Charles (56:00)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:40 – Listener testimonials about "hive mind," hyper-masculinity, and cult-like devotion.
• 06:32 – Introduction of guest Kimmi Chex and her fantasy football credentials.
• 12:24 – Brief history of fantasy football's origins and its modern industry.
• 13:45 – Kimmi on league rituals (lucky jerseys, strict draft weekends, and camaraderie).
• 20:34 – Segment on fantasy football rituals and the concept of "collective effervescence."
• 22:22 – Kimmi and Chelsea discuss gatekeeping, jargon, and gendered experiences in fantasy.
• 34:53 – Kimmi’s path as a woman in the NFL and advice for breaking into male-dominated spaces.
• 43:12 – Discussion of the sunk cost fallacy and obsession with fantasy football.
• 45:01 – Example of fantasy obsession during Damar Hamlin’s medical emergency.
• 48:35 – The dark side: legal/personal consequences of gambling and fantasy obsession.
• 57:18 – “Culty or Committed?” game segment.
• 60:25–61:13 – Final verdicts on fantasy football’s level of “cultiness.”

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Final Takeaways

Fantasy football is a potent blend of camaraderie, healthy (and sometimes unhealthy) obsession, ritual, language, and risk that mimics many cult-like behaviors—complete with its own hierarchies, jargon, and rites of passage. For most, it’s a harmless source of connection and fun—but, as with all cults, a watchful eye is needed when stakes, money, and egos start to swallow common sense.

“Low stakes, fun, community, shit talking, and enjoying watching football, dawg!” – Kimmi Chex (62:20)

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Follow Kimmi: @kimmichex on socials
Sounds Like A Cult: @soundslikeacultpod

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“Stay culty, but not too cult.”

Transcript

[Amanda Montell]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs, artists, podcasters to stand out and succeed online. I have been a Squarespace user for years. Updating it is really simple and I'm so grateful that Squarespace makes updating the site super easy thanks to features like their design intelligence. Squarespace also makes it super easy to set up an online store and to give your audience all kinds of options for how they wish to pay. And if you're feeling charitable, Squarespace also makes it possible to set up a fundraiser online. Go go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, head to squarespace.com cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Quince is one of my all time favorite sponsors and especially during this autumnal season, they have it all. $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters, denim that never goes out of style. I am genuinely obsessed with every single Quint piece that I have. I have these little white boots that I always talk about. I have them with me right now. I'm visiting London. I've been trotting all over town in them. Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished. And last from Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.com SLAC for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com SLAC to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com SLAC the views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Culture, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Hi, my name is Libby and I'm from the Midwest.

[Kim Michen]

And I think that the cultiest thing about fantasy football is just the general hive mind that it creates and the.

[Amanda Montell]

Just like complete testosterone fueled beer drinking women will never understand attitude.

[Kim Michen]

I formerly worked as a server and one of our big merchants would host a big fantasy football draft with all his bros. And one time I was the server for it. And while I did make a lot of money, it was at the expense of me feeling very degraded.

[Amanda Montell]

You know, me serving all these men.

[Kim Michen]

Who aren't giving me the time of day, who won't even look at me to order their Miller Light, who are just focused on whether or not they're gonna get so and so.

[Amanda Montell]

So that's what I find the most cult y about it.

[Kim Michen]

Hey culties, I'm Kimora. Like, let's start when you're having a nice dinner, enjoying yourself, and then the leader of the cult calls, or the commissioner as they call it, and they have to drop everything and have some sort of cult meeting where they're arguing about pics. And then how about how it keeps them hooked, alternating between fear and reward on a Sunday, all day they'll experience pain, loss and anger. And just when you think they've had enough, the cult dangles that carrot with a small Monday Night Football win and they're back with just enough hope to keep them hooked. And let's talk about how they're always recruiting new members. When I first met my fiance, it was maybe one or two weeks. Now, six years later, I can't even keep track. The demands of the cult continue to grow.

[Chelsea Charles]

This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your co host Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer and a lifelong student of pop culture sociology and one third of the dynamic trio at Sounds Like a Cult. On today's episode, it's gonna just be me and our guest. Every week on the show we discussed a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cult in culture from Lululemon to Harry Potter to try to answer the baby big question. This group sounds like a cult. But is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? Is it a live your life? Is it a watch your back? Or a get the fuck out? After all, cultish influence falls along a continuum these days, and it doesn't always look the same. Some modern day cults seem super fringy and ritualistic, but are actually relatively harmless, like horse girls or Jeep owners. The cultiness doesn't necessarily mean they're super destructive. But then you've got modern cult leaders who influence is so omnipresent that we often don't even stop to scrutinize the chokehold it has on us. That is what this show is all about. Analyzing and even poking a little fun at the ways cultishness shows up in places so prominent you might not even perceive them as cults. Like an empire built on sleeper pics, trash talk and the illusion of control. With just enough obsession to make you question your relationships and your sanity. It's time we draft our way into the cult of fantasy football. The spreadsheet heavy, ego fueled group chat dominating ritual where ordinary folks transform into ruthless Team owners with punny names, lucky jerseys, and a sense of power. Whether you're a stat nerd or just here for the vibes, fantasy isn't just a game, it's a lifestyle. So, Colties, if you're listening today and have no idea what the hell fantasy football even is, I got you. Basically, it's a competitive game where everyday people pretend to be team owners drafting real life NFL players to create imaginary lineups that earn points based on how those players perform in actual games. It's like stock trading for guys who peaked in high school, but with way more group chats. Now it's time to get into the meat and potatoes. To help us jump into the Colts analysis, we've got a special guest today. Joining us is the brilliant NFL media personality and fantasy football expert, Kimmich. She's one of the youngest and most dynamic voices at the NFL Network, known for bringing sharp analysis, deep football knowledge, and serious style to everything she does. Kami, welcome to Sounds like a Cult.

[Kim Michen]

Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm also like, questioning my whole life. Like, am I in a cult Based on the categories in which you asked your listeners, I may be. I don't know.

[Chelsea Charles]

We will see, girl. We'll get into it.

[Kim Michen]

Do I need to get the fuck out? I don't know. Maybe.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so I'm sure our listeners already know you as a major voice in the world of football, but can you tell us a bit about your connection to the world of fantasy football? Specifically, like, how deep are you in these fantasy trenches?

[Kim Michen]

Yes, I mean, I'm in it. I don't know if I'm fully in it, but I'm pretty damn in it. I'm going into my eighth season with the NFL and the NFL network. But in 2019, I transitioned to the media side with our NFL Media Network. And when I made that transition, I've somehow stumbled into the world of fantasy football. At the time, I was a rotational business analyst and I rotated into the Digital Media Group and they were starting this brand new digital show and concept around fantasy football because they realized we have millions and millions of people that play fantasy football, especially through our app. How do we engage with them beyond just the game of setting rosters and engaging in their own fantasy league? And they came up with this concept to start a show that was a celebrity versus NFL analyst show. So at the time that was my job was to figure out this beast of the show, but also this new offering that they offered within the NFL's Fantasy app, which were like real time fantasy update videos. So I think stumbled into it because it was my job, but it was something that I wasn't necessarily, like, seeking out. It was the need that the company had. All of that is to say, once you get into fantasy football, you legitimately join a cult. Because I've never been able to, like, break free from the shackles of that fantasy experience. So I'm in it officially.

[Chelsea Charles]

And you get paid to be in it. So I do.

[Kim Michen]

I get a paycheck. So shout out to my mortgage being paid via fantasy football. Shout out. It's a pain cult. So we like that.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so that is your life in fantasy football as it applies to your work life. So what about your home life?

[Kim Michen]

Great question. And it's so funny because I literally just sent a group text to my neighborhood. I moved a year ago to a new state, new city, knew all of the things, new neighborhood. And my husband and I had this idea of, like, let's start a fantasy football league of all of our new neighbors and be really competitive. So I just actually fired off her text was like, it's draft time. Like, what is everyone's availability? But I play fantasy football with my coworkers. So we have a league that everybody who's on the show and our producers were in. And we're very competitive because we talk a lot of shit on the show and that's really that we battle each other in. So I play in that league. And then my cousin, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't think he would even care. He's had a fantasy football league with his friends for over 20 years. This is like their college fantasy football league. They are ride or die. They take it very seriously every single year. You know, they all now live across the country and across the world. They pick a city and they all transcend and descend upon the city to have a weekend of fantasy football. They bring jackets that if you were a champion, you get a red jacket. So you wear like a formal jacket to the dinner. They bring their rings. Like, it's very legit. Ever since my husband and I met, my husband has finished top three every single year. He's also one. So his friends hate me because they're like, your wife has to be giving you all of this advice because there's no way you were asked for all of these years in fantasy football. And then suddenly the common denominator is you start dating and get married to Kim, and then you're really good at fantasy. So our household is. We have separate fantasy leagues, but do we intermingle a little bit and help each other out? Of course. Of course we do.

[Chelsea Charles]

Of course. Okay, so that's like a perfect segue to me telling you about my fantasy football.

[Kim Michen]

Give it to me. I want to hear all of it. All of the scoop.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay? So I believe in marriage. There has to be compromise. Okay? There has to be compromise. So I grew up in a very sports crazed family. I'm from Louisiana. So I'm an obligatory Saints fan. I don't know two things about football, and this is coming from someone who was wide receiver at my intramural flag football team in high school. All they did was throw the ball, tell me to run. Okay, I don't know anything about it. Cut to. I married the most insane football fan in existence. And to add on top of that, he is an Eagles fan.

[Kim Michen]

Hence I was going to say, I'm like, how are you a Saints fan repping another NFC team's jersey?

[Chelsea Charles]

A thousand percent a bandwagoner. Okay, So I throw all the parties, I do all the things. I am very much so in it for the community. My husband said, listen, if you're going to be a part of this, you need to fully immerse yourself in this cult. And I'm like, I'm not really in it. I'm not. I don't care about football. Whatever. So one day we're watching the game and all of a sudden the heavens just opened up and a beautiful six three Adonis runs across my screen by the name of Jalen Hurts. And I look at my husband, Listen, I said, look, if you really want me to be down in this cold, I wear the jersey. But it has to be a Jalen Hurts jersey. And much to his chagrin, you purchased the jersey. But I will tell you, I have never missed a game day wearing this jersey.

[Kim Michen]

That's all. It's all you needed. All you needed.

[Chelsea Charles]

So while that is the cult of football in itself, just know that my house, fantasy football, takes over our entire existence. And my husband is an identical twin. He's a Steelers fan, so they talk trash together.

[Kim Michen]

It's always competitive from birth. Okay, I get it. This is all checking out.

[Chelsea Charles]

So that's my introduction to the world of fantasy.

[Kim Michen]

This all checks out completely.

[Chelsea Charles]

I want to jump into the actual origins of fantasy football and how it even became a thing. So fantasy football was born in a Manhattan Hotel in 1962 when a group of die hard football fans, including a Raiders exec, a reporter and a businessman decided real life football wasn't enough. They created a new game where participants would draft NFL players and compete based on their real world stats. What started as a niche hobby spread slowly through office leagues and sports bars, but exploded with the rise of the Internet, ESPN coverage and mobile apps in the early 2000s. Today, fantasy football is a billion dollar industry with over 60 million players, full blown draft parties and group chats that feel more intense than actual football games. It's not just a game, it's a way of life. So now that fantasy football has gone from a hotel room hobby to a full blown billion dollar industry, I feel like the real evolution isn't just the gameplay, it's in the rituals. So Kimmy, in your experience, what are some of the most elaborate or just plain unhinged traditions you've seen around draft day or game day?

[Kim Michen]

I mean, I think people are just like so crazy and in a fun way. And I'm a football fan, so I completely understand it, right? Like people have their traditions, they have their rituals. Certain people have lucky jerseys or lucky shoes or they can only watch in this specific room with the volume on this specific level and phone has to be off and no one can enter the room. All of that I totally subscribe to and believe that that is going to make you feel good about watching football. You do you. Thankfully, I feel like I surround myself with pretty normal people who understand that football is a game and we enjoy it for entertainment and for sport purposes and that it is not religion, but people are legit. So thankfully I've not seen anything super, super crazy. But I mean like the rituals of it all. Even my husband and his fantasy football group, I'm like the way that y' all are grown men with full careers, full families, all living across the country, but God forbid, no one can interrupt your fantasy football draft weekend. Is like crazy to. It's cute, it's fun. I like love the camaraderie of it all. And like my take now on everything in the world is like, if it gives us a sense of community in a positive way, I'm all for it. The world is so crazy and can be so divisive and so negative. So I've always said like, football is the most powerful sport ever to me, especially here in the US because every single Sunday, you know what the bulk of America is doing, what they're engaging in, what they're watching. And now with our games on Mondays and Thursdays and on the holidays and we've almost had a game every, every single day of the week at this point. Like that to me is fun. So I feel like I can't fully make fun of it or knock people down because if it gives them some happiness or some sense of community, all the power to you.

[Chelsea Charles]

I love that. And I fully agree. I think that's with most cult like things we explore on the podcast. It's easy to poke fun at something that you're on the outside of. But to your point, community is one of the most important things, especially during this political climate and it's all in good fun. Well, I do have a question about something that you said. God forbid someone interrupts the draft weekend. Has there ever been like any conflict scheduling in your household during that weekend?

[Kim Michen]

Thankfully, there has not. But what is kind of fun and like I love is that they always do it like one of the last two weekends in August, right? Because that's when training camp is over. We're deep into the preseason. It's normally the last preseason game. Do kind of understand what the roster are going to look like. And the last few years I've always been working a preseason game during their draft. So they do at some points pause and have my game on in the background and they have the volume up and they will watch me and I have a really cute photo of my husband wearing a kimmiche cheese jersey watching me in a preseason game while the draft is going on. So all of his friends are very sweet and I think they do it to suck up to me in hopes that maybe I'll help them at some point. But that is one thing where I'm like, okay, like it's totally fine. But thankfully no scheduling parts conflicts because I'm always busy with football anyway. So if anything, we're both on opposite sides of the country doing us. He's got his fantasy football draft and I'm actually working a real job.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's very sweet.

[Amanda Montell]

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[Kim Michen]

Hi Colt family. This is Rachel from Portland, Oregon and my now ex partner thank God used to be involved in a fantasy football league and every Sunday during football season. A couple weeks before football season Sundays were completely blocked off. No matter what was going on we were not allowed to have any other plans. We would have probably 10 guys come over every single week. They had a whole trophy. They got their names engraved on the trophy if they won that year and even the last trophy they had. Some of the guys got into a fight and one of the guys didn't want to give up the trophy and so he unfriended everyone in the entire group and blocked them and to this day has not talked to them Again, it's insane. Hello, this is Mark calling from Pittsburgh. As someone who I'm pretty sure is outside your main listening demo, that is. I'm an older straight man. I was so excited to finally have a chance to call because I know so much about fantasy football. But then I saw you underline you only want the partners, not the participants. So alas, I've got nothing for you other than to say maybe keep up the great work. Love the show. I'm a longtime listener and you're single handedly responsible for me saying things like woo woo and portmanteau.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so for our listeners, I want to get into some of the rituals and like rites of passage that comes with fantasy football. So fantasy isn't just about player stats. It's a full blown performance with its own traditions, superstitions, and party energy. So the draft day is the main event. As one blogger puts it. Quote, draft day isn't just a party, it's a performance. That that kind of energy shows up in themed parties, giant draft boards, color coded spreadsheets, and even draft day PowerPoints. Then the superstitions run wild. According to Rotowire, quote, many fantasy players swear by wearing lucky jersey. Hence why I have this on. My husband does not let me go. I said compromise, but he's like, no, this is the lucky jersey. I'm like, okay, okay, whatever. Lucky jersey, socks or underwear on draft day. Believing it could change their season's fate, Draft day editor describes the scene. Good food, good friends, bitter rivalries, and endless hours of trash talk while pics are locked in. Examining this through a cult lens, these fantasy football rituals may seem harmless or even wholesome, but that's usually how cultural get you ritualized bonding. In sociology, shared rituals build cohesion and create what's called collective effervescence, a heightened group energy that makes participants feel like they're a part of something bigger. So in speaking about this collective effervescence, these rituals seem to form a tight knit group. Do you think there's a barrier for folks who don't speak the language of football? Like, is there any some sort of gatekeeping baked into the culture?

[Kim Michen]

Oh, that's a really interesting question. And I definitely think there is. Because even when I was getting started as a fantasy analyst, like back in 2019, so much of it is just like naturally ingrained language, right? And just like these words that the guys that I worked with and women I worked with would just throw around. And I felt like I was constantly trying to catch up because my entire concept of Football was always like watching it in person on the field. And I thought fantasy was like dumb and silly and just odd and something that I didn't think that I would want to engage in. But then once I got in the world, I was like, wait. The reason why maybe I wasn't engaging is because it was kind of this gatekeeping, like old man, not old man society, but like guys world. And now I think we've seen this massive shift that like, to me, I think the easiest way for new football fans to engage and understand the game in a completely new way. Because you get like so invested in the NFL team and organization that you love, right? Just as a f. But then this is now giving you exposure into all 32 franchises because the odds that you drafted players from the exact same team, it's impossible in fantasy football. You can't do that. So to me, it's such a fun way to get people who kind of think football is like, oh, it's just this thing on TV that people are obsessed with and I don't get it and I don't understand it. It gives them an automatic credibility and way to engage in the game. And what I think is like, very low stakes, right? I don't play in leagues that are like super intense. My husband, he can do that. Y' all can be crazy. But for me it's like, it's way more fun. It's a way to like talk shit with friends, to follow the game. And so much of fantasy is also dumb luck. So I understand people wear their socks and their jerseys and they have their drafting rituals. Knock on wood. But like, injuries happen in football. If your star player goes down with an injury on week two, that's not on you. Like, you as one individual. Like, there's millions of people who probably drafted that same guy. It's not on y'. All. It's the game of football. It's the reality of what happens. And that then means, like, you gotta go on to the next guy. So I think it's a really fun, low stakes way to get involved. And I love like being a black woman in the fantasy space and kind of giving it a more diverse and equitable lens. We have such a young audience that loves fantasy football too. Like, there are friends, kids who are in fifth grade and they have leagues with their friends. Like, it's a really fun way for every single generation of football fans to get engaged, to have fun and to support the game outside of the team that just.

[Chelsea Charles]

You root for community and you know what? So there's an inside joke with our listeners because I am susceptible to joining very low stakes cults. If I am just slightly convinced that it might be fun or a good time, I'm in.

[Kim Michen]

It's literally so fun. So everybody needs to join fantasy. You should start a cult fantasy football league with some lucky listeners.

[Chelsea Charles]

I hope everyone is watching on YouTube because your intense eye contact is convincing me that I need to join the cult of fantasy football. You heard it here first.

[Kim Michen]

Okay, done. It's so fun. It's literally so fun. And like, you cannot tell me people don't just have a competitive nature to them. Like, it's fun to beat people at something and it's not physical. You don't need to like, overly exhibit. Once you draft, it's checking in a few times a week on your phone for all of five to 10 minutes to make sure your team is healthy. There are no guys on a bye week and you're good. This is like low stakes fun. This is low stakes competitiveness. You don't have to exert anything extra other than engaging on your phone, setting your roster, and then watching football. And when you watch football, you have so much more fun because you're checking your team as the game goes on and you're like, yes, this is what I need. I need at least 10 points from Travis Kelce. And then he gets it and you're so hyped. Like, you're just so happy.

[Chelsea Charles]

See, the thing is, the only thing that I will say is something about what you were talking about earlier. The vocabulary associated with that's a little intimidating for me.

[Kim Michen]

But it depends on all the leagues you're in, right? Like, is it a keeper league? Is it a dynasty league? Is it a redraft league? Like, all of that to me was very confusing because people just talk about it as if it's like primary language. And if you're an outsider, that's a lot to absorb. But like, one, Google is free, so you can always Google. And two, you can always ask somebody. And three, like, my piece of advice would be like, join a fantasy football league or join a league with people who are in the same place as you and like all join together and like learn at the same time. Then it's fun and everybody's kind of on the same learning curve and engaging in the exact same type of way. So don't let the language scare you. Go in like, very easy. Do like a PPR league, which even that sounds crazy to people if you don't know. Point for reception, PPR that's probably the most common and easy leagues that you could join and just, like, get it on the ground floor. It's so fun. And with this new league I'm starting that I was telling you, with these people and couples in my neighborhood, I'm like, it's a fun way to immediately have camaraderie with strangers. You're all engaged in the exact same thing. You're all rooting for the same outcome. And it just, like, I don't know, it gives you, like we said, community. You can do it with strangers or you can do it with people you've known forever, but it's an immediate, like, like community builder. And then something to look forward to, like, if you have a good experience, you know, okay, every August, end of August, we're going to have the draft. I'm going to see these people, I'm going to do these things. Like, it does give you a fun something to look for and root for and practice all your Pinterest skills to make a cute appetizer to bring to the draft. Like, it's a win, win every way you look at it.

[Chelsea Charles]

You know, Kimmy, I'm fucking with it. I'm loving this sale.

[Kim Michen]

It's easy, it's fun. You can also just. This is the other, like, hack. You can also just, like, hit auto draft, and then the app or your phone could do it for you. Like, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Like, this is. This is great.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, but you're saying that. And first of all, I don't even know what this means, but I hear so many things in the next room about Autodraft. I'm like, I don't even know what he's talking about.

[Kim Michen]

People would be haters about it. But, like, whatever app that you play Fantasy on. So I play on the NFL's fantasy app. But there's ESPN. Yahoo has an app. Like, there's, you know, millions of apps that you can, that you can engage in. They all have an option for auto draft. So if, for example, it's a draft day, you have a timer on the clock for when you can make your. Your draft pick selection. If you don't make it in time, the app will automatically make it for you. And each app, every single year, collects and summarizes all of last season's data from all these football players. And it ranks them in order of, like, top receivers, top quarterbacks, top running backs, top tight ends, top defenses, top kickers. So it's all in a sequential order, and it would Just automatically pick whoever's the highest rated player at that position. And it would take it or it would take what player? The algorithm of the app thinks that you should draft. If you get in a pinch and you're like, I literally don't know, you could always just rely on the information of the app because they, yeah, that's what it's for. Okay, I'm trying to help people out. I'm trying to get free game here. It's low stakes.

[Chelsea Charles]

I'm gonna do it. So I want to talk a little bit about what you kind of teased a little bit. But the gender gap in the world of fantasy football and football in general, because like most culty spaces, it's complicated for women. Fantasy leagues can feel like a total boys club, highly masculine, hyper competitive, and full of jargon that gatekeeps more than it invites. It reminds me of the Second sex, where Simone de Beauvoir wrote that woman is the other, a role assigned in relation to a dominant male norm. That's exactly how some women describe the fantasy world. You're not automatically a part of it. You have to prove you deserve to be there. And some studies show that while men often join fantasy leagues to enjoy, enhance, and socialize, many women play for different reasons, like the challenge of proving they belong or the chance to truly connect with other fans and players. One woman told sports feel good stories that the men in her league treated her like an easy win until she started beating them. Suddenly, she had their respect. Initiatives like Women of fantasy football are started to name the problem out loud. Quote, fantasy football should be inclusive to women, but the simple fact is it isn't. End quote. The tension between exclusion and inclusion is where the cultiest part of fantasy football really lives. Because when a group makes you feel like you have to earn your way to be seen, that's hierarchy, my friends. So you've built a major platform in a space that's historically been dominated by men, both in football and in fantasy football. Have there been moments where you felt like you've had to earn your way just to be seen? And how do you navigate that tension between being included and still feeling like the other?

[Kim Michen]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of discourse, and understandably so, about the ginger gap in football. I think, thankfully, we're shifting away from that. And the norm is now like football really is for everybody. And you can look at even like the fandom and the craze around teenage girls and Taylor Swift these last few years and getting that whole new fan base engaged. In football and like having these dynamic touch points with this younger audience of girls, like now wanting to watch football with their dads because there's this pop star associated. But even prior to all of that, women have always long loved football. If you look at some of the oldest families that have owned NFL organizations, they have been run by badass women. For the real people who know the history of the football, football has always been family. It has always been women. And anybody who's ever kind of pushed against that, to me, I'm like one year hater until you actually have no fucking idea who you're talking about. Because some of the grandmothers of the game of football are obviously women, hence the name of grandmother. Some of the founding members of the NFL and bringing these organ organizations to life. We're women. So now the argument's dead. Just right there off rip. In the fantasy space though, it's like this really, in my opinion, my experience has been super inviting. One I think it's a consequence of the people who I work with who were always super welcoming and inviting into this space because I think they've always known like it's a low stakes game. Like we are playing a fake game about a real game of fantasy football, which in essence is just pig skin wrapped in a ball form being thrown around the field. Of course there's so much nuance and effort and energy and strategy that goes into the game on the field. But like nothing in regards to fantasy football is saving the world or like making the world rotate even faster. Like there's nothing that needs to be hateful about the game. Because if anything, it's like a way to get more people engaged. And any man who's ever had an issue with me or any analysis I've ever said, like, I just take that stuff just on the chin and just like let it brush off. Because it's so non consequential to my life. And I think being prepared for the moment, knowing what the hell you're talking about, being well researched, like understanding the league inside and out and also having credibility amongst the athletes and the teams and the coaches themselves. Like if someone wants to push back against anything I say or what I do on air, it's like, well, can an NFL head coach name you by name or recognize you walking down the street and say hello to you? Does an NFL player know that you even exists? Like, if the answer is no, I really have kind of nothing to say to you. And I mean that complete and total respect. Like there's nothing shitty or Shady about it. It's just like, that's that this is my job, this is my career. If I wasn't good at it, I probably wouldn't have this job and it probably wouldn't be paying my mortgage. So good on you for doing you over there. I'm going to do me over here and then here. We are inclusive. We are kind and we know our shit. So that's just kind of bottom line.

[Chelsea Charles]

That was like a might just that only a black woman can do. You know what I'm saying? That was a classy read down.

[Kim Michen]

Yeah, it's like dad, coaches, GMs, presidents or players know you exist. If not like, okay, we're good.

[Chelsea Charles]

So have you always wanted to be in this world specifically? Because I know you. You studied broadcast journalism, right?

[Kim Michen]

I did, yeah. I've always wanted to be in this world. Like, I grew up in Kansas City. My initials are KC and it was like, very, very coincidental. I thought my parents were so smart for that. So as a little girl, like, I would see everybody with Kansas City sports gear, like the Royals and the Chiefs, and it was Casey was the logo. So I was like, wait, it's me. These are my teams. Like, I love that everybody's rooting for me. Egophysical, only child over here. But I grew up going to Chiefs games and, like, feeling the energy of the sport and the camaraderie that came with football. So growing up, I knew I wanted to be in broadcast journalism. And in my head I was like, I either want to go the political route or I want to go the sports route. So I went to a performing arts high school. TV production was my major in high school, and then went on to college. Also majored in broadcast journalism. Did the politics thing for one summer, interned in dc, Realized that was really crazy and football was probably a little bit more fun. And that's where I was like, really head down. So from day one, I've always known that this is what I wanted to do. And while I love all sports, like, football has always been my first love. I love the energy, I love the speed of the game. I love what the game stands for. And now, as our games, like, expanding across the world, I think we have such a powerful, incredible product that, like, it's the thing that gets people excited and, like, having a part of that in a. In a climate, like we've said, in a political climate that can be really polarizing, in a world that's now being driven by AI and all of these things, I'm like, one thing that no one can take away from us is the game of football. So being a part of that energy and that excitement is fun and it's really rewarding. And I've always been so laser focused on it and I feel just like super blessed to have had the career I've had and the opportunities I've been given as well.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's amazing. I think your story is super inspiring. I would like to know if there is any type of advice that you would give to a woman who would be interested in, like, following in your. Your footsteps and taking a stab at this career path.

[Kim Michen]

Yeah, I think for me, it's not chasing the thing that seems glamorous or glitzy or fun. It's like chasing the why. It's chasing the passion. Football comes with incredible perks of going to really incredible places and traveling and going to games and experiences, super bowl and all of these things. But in reality, that is like the smallest part of our job. Our job is the why. It's the research, it's the nitty gritty. It's understanding the game, it's understanding and amplifying the player voices, in my opinion. And understanding that why and why you want to get into a space is really, really, really important and special because it's easy to look at somebody's Instagram and see their highlight reel of the cute pictures on the sideline and think that's what you want to chase. But this is a grind. It is constant. It is never turning your brain off. I always get this question and people are like, oh, it's the off season. Like, you guys don't have anything to do. It's like, there is a calendar of football that is 365 days a year. And as long as you understand that, like, you're committed to that grind and that's what you want. Do, like, find your niche once you get inside and just be relentless. Like, once you do something and you shine a light on something in a way that no one else can. Like, that light cannot be dim. No one can take that away. So it's finding the why, then being relentless while finding your niche and knowing that, like, you're going to own this space in a way that no one else can do. That's always kind of my main piece of advice. Don't just look at the highlight reel. Understand the why.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's beautiful. Literally, that is quite like on the nose to the advice that I give to people who ask me about being in reality TV and producing for reality tv because I'm like, I'm not going to post the, the long nights, the six days a week, the 72 hour weeks that I work, I'm not going to post that. I'm going to post me on the beach somewhere. But when you come into an industry like entertainment, you have to have a strong head and you have to like, this is why I'm here. And much to your point earlier, we're not saving people, we're not saving lives. We're adding a little spark of joy somewhere. We're adding to dinnertime conversations. It's not brain surgery. So, no, it's never that deep.

[Kim Michen]

It's never that deep, but it's still important. And it's like if I wanted to have an easy job, I would have chosen something else. And that's the reality of it. And it's like even looking at my schedule now, it's like, I have to understand I may miss my daughter's first day at school. I may miss these, you know, holidays. I work on holidays. I miss that time away from my family. Holidays look very, very different. Like there is an enormous amount of sacrifice that comes with the decisions. And I'm sure you feel the same way, you know, in terms of reality and entertainment television. Like there are sacrifices you make, so don't let the glittery shit fool you. It's still a grind, but if you're relentless about that pursuit and it sits in the center of like your actual passions and that's what you're supposed to, to do, it's like, I never want to feel like I'm doing a job. I want to feel like I have an opportunity to make something better. And that's, that's how I approach my career and that's how I hope everybody approaches their career.

[Chelsea Charles]

I love that.

[Amanda Montell]

I feel like we're living in a time when scams are just omnipresent and it can be really scary. Sending money, receiving money. You don't know what's real and what's culty. And I feel like scams especially thrive during the holidays because, because scammers know that everybody is transacting and buying and selling. That's why Cash App builds in protection to keep your money safe while you're checking off your shopping list. If you're about to send money to someone for a deal that's too good to be true, Cash App will actually flag that and warn you of potential scams before you send your money. Cash App also gives you an extra layer of security with features like protection lock. You can require a pin, a face ID or a fingerprint to unlock your account. It truly just is a wonderful app for peace of mind Mind Save yourself from scammers this holiday season and download Cash App for a limited time only new Cash App users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real. Just download Cash App and use our exclusive referral code. Secure 10 in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That's Money. That's Cash App Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's Bank Partners Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton bank member FBA FDIC Promotions provided by Cash App a Block Inc.

[Kim Michen]

Brand.

[Amanda Montell]

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[Chelsea Charles]

T He sounds like a cool colt.

[Amanda Montell]

My name is Bianca and I'm calling.

[Kim Michen]

From Raleigh, North Carolina. To me, the cultiest thing about fantasy football is just how bro coded everything is.

[Amanda Montell]

So even if I'm a part of the league and I'm knowledgeable of the.

[Chelsea Charles]

Topic, I am not included in those.

[Amanda Montell]

Conversations for the fact that I am a woman and because I wasn't obsessed.

[Chelsea Charles]

With football when I was at the.

[Amanda Montell]

Ripe age of two. And when I try to go back and do research to be able to partake in these conversations or make informed decisions about drafting joint choices. All of the information also happens to be very bro coded and layered in history.

[Chelsea Charles]

So I want to transition to talking a little bit about the sunk cost fallacy in fantasy football because it's arguably the psychological engine of the entire game. Imagine drafting a player early, banking on them all season, and even when they flop or get in injured, you just can't bench them.

[Kim Michen]

Why?

[Chelsea Charles]

Because you've invested heavily in draft picks, memory and ego. That, my friends, is the sunk cost fallacy. So sunk cost fallacy can be described as a psychological phenomenon where individuals continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources, albeit time, money or effort, even if the current costs outweigh its benefits. Benefits so we've heard stories of fantasy leagues with thousand dollar buy ins, Vegas draft weekends, group chats that ruin friendships. Have you ever witnessed someone go full spiral or just couldn't let it go even when it was clearly time for them to tap out?

[Kim Michen]

Yeah, of course. Welcome to football. And this is a story and thankfully now things are great. But when demar Hamlin, who played for the Buffalo Bills and still plays for the Buffalo Bills, went down during that game against the Bengals Bengals, it was late in the season and it was around the fantasy championships.

[Chelsea Charles]

So Colties, just for context, In January of 2023, during the Bills vs Bengals game, Buffalo Bills safety Demar Hamlin suffered a hit to his chest that caused his heart to stop. Subsequently, the medical staff stopped the game to try to revive demar on the field. He was then put into a medically induced coma for two days. After being rushed to the hospital, demar thankfully made a full recovery and is still playing with the Buffalo Bills to this day.

[Kim Michen]

That game obviously ended and got canceled and was not rescheduled. That game did not count for that week. And my husband's fantasy league, he was in a championship playing against someone and once the game was canceled, they had to tally the points of, you know, what the guys had scored in that game. And I believe Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase obviously were playing in that one. And then Josh Allen, like those are the three players off the top of my head that were obviously a part of these rosters. And it was a very contentious situation because a team had won, but they did not feel as if it was fair because the game was canceled. But this was a championship game. And I remember my husband's phone like, and I'm like what is going on? And he's like, yo, really read these texts. And the group chat was white and I'M like, y', all, we just saw a very scary situation on the field. Like, this shit is not that serious. So that was the one time where I was like, you guys are taking it way too far. Like, let's just focus on the thing at hand, which is ensuring that his health is prioritized and that he is going to be okay. Like, I'm sure things will get rescheduled. Like, whatever. Like, it is not that serious. So that was the first time that I had, like, an up close and personal kind of, like, relationship to seeing people just lose the flop. I was like, y' all are lost in the sauce. We need to rewind and get back on board. And thank God Damar Hamlin made a full recovery. He's back to playing football, like, all things positive there. But that was an unprecedented situation for the league, for all of us, for us covering the game and knowing, like, how to talk about this situation and talk about kind of the scare that we just saw on the field. So, like, Yalls fantasy football is not real. And on the same note, one thing I do want to say because I've talked to players about this throughout the years, and we've also seen them be, like, very vocal on social, do not tag. And at these players if they have an ass week. So many guys have been like, I do not care about your fantasy football league, and y' all need to stop tweeting at me, sending me messages, like, blowing me up. Some of them love it and have their own leagues and draft themselves and, like, love the fun of it all. But another huge part of it is, like, this is y' all's fake game. This is my real job. Like, leave me alone. So that's the other thing. Y' all need to not lose the plot by tagging players and going at them for having down leaks or not being as good as you thought they would be, because they quite literally do not care about you. Like, they do not care. They're trying to make their own money. They're trying to stay a part of their own teams and make sure their contracts are good. Like, your fantasy football is not the top of it.

[Chelsea Charles]

Dude, thank you so much for sharing that, because I. I totally even forgot to ask that. But I always wondered.

[Kim Michen]

They hate it. I mean, and some of them do like it. And they're like, oh, I only draft the guys from, you know, my squad, you know, whatever. And I love that. And there are some who, like, totally. And I'm sure they all grew up playing it like, it's a fun thing, but I think once you actually are in the game yourself, it probably takes a completely different tone. They don't want to hear about your fantasy football league because it's so inconsequential to their life. I think they like it when you shout them out for good things, but like shouting them out for bad weeks. No bueno. They already get enough hate. Like y' all don't. Y' all don't need to add more fuel to the fire.

[Chelsea Charles]

I have seen people tweet the most unhinged thing to these players and I always wonder like, do they care? That's crazy. Oh, wow. Okay. So listeners, if you hear that, don't do it.

[Kim Michen]

Don't do it. Please don't do it.

[Chelsea Charles]

So it wouldn't be a sounds like a cult deep dive if we didn't tap into some of the tabloid scandals in the world of fantasy football. So let's rewind to 2015 when fantasy football's culty devotion crossed into full blown financial scandal. DraftKings and FanDuel were booming, promising players big cash for their fantasy expertise. But then it got shady. The New York Times broke a story revealing a DraftKings employee won $350,000 on a FanDuel dual contest. The same week he accidentally leaked sensitive internal data. If that sounds like insider trading, it is. The FBI and the US Department of Justice launched an investigation. Regulators started asking whether daily fantasy was actually just unregulated gambling. DraftKings launched an internal investigation and insisted the data leak was just a badly timed coincidence incidents. But regulators weren't buying it. States like New York, Nevada and Washington cracked down hard. Subsequently, employees were banned from entering rival contests and class action lawsuits rolled in from users claiming fraud and unfair play. What followed was a total legal shakeup. By 2017, most states had either banned or heavily regulated daily fantasy. And the 200818 Supreme Court decision legalizing sports betting nationwide shifted everything. By 2020, both DraftKings and FanDuel had gone full mask off, pivoting from just fantasy to official sportsbooks, blurring the lines between harmless hobby and high stakes gambling. So as daily fantasy platforms faced lawsuits, regulations and a full on identity shift into high stakes stakes sports betting, the question became what happens when all that risk leaves the app and enters people's actual lives? Kimmy, have you ever seen how this obsession with fantasy or sports betting starts to spill over into someone's relationships or even their reality?

[Kim Michen]

I mean, yeah, unfortunately I think we understand and as a society see kind of the slippery slope that that exists within that space, which at the end of the day comes down to each individual person and their decision. But I'm like, with anything, I think there's a really fine line of it becoming fun and then it becoming obsessive and becoming an issue. Thankfully, no personal experiences of anyone close in my orbit who's taken it too far with sports betting or daily fantasy or kind of anything with within that vein. But it's a really fine line. And you know, as an NFL employee, right, like, there are things that I can't even engage in in regards to. To daily fantasy or sports betting in any capacity whatsoever. One, I'm not a gambler. I like my money myself. So I'm not trying to give it away for free in Vegas or anywhere. But, you know, that's something that, as a league employee with the access to the information that I have, I am not allowed to engage with that whatsoever. So I understand there's a fine line and it's up to each individual person how risky they want to be. But that's where, you know, it's like, when does it stop becoming fun and when does it start becoming obsessive? Like, that's a question that I think a lot of people have to ask. And I think there's so much good in the world. And I think understanding sports betting, it's a part of our culture, and we're seeing it grow more and more and more and more. And I feel like you can bet on, like, if it's going to be a sunny day or a rainy day at this point, like, we've. We've incentivized our society in all of these ways to kind of have that obsessiveness. But it's interesting and, you know, I'm like, it could be applied to AI. It can be applied to all of these things where it's like, where do these tools that originally are born out of a really good place? How do they take a turn and where do they take a turn? And that's where I think it's a question more so of not the product itself, but like our society and the people and like our cultish behavior and our obsessive behavior. It's like, that's where I think it's more of a sociology study of, like, how have we allowed ourselves to spiral in these ways as opposed to, like, being punitive to the games themselves or the platforms, which, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of regulation that that goes on there and a lot of strategy thoughts behind it. Thankfully, I'VE never been exposed to it. And I don't have any relationships that in my orbit have had, you know, negative consequences. But it's very, very, very real. And like, yeah, even anyone out there, if you need help with gambling, go get help because it is very real. And like, back to what we've always said, like, is it that serious? Like all of this was born out of an entertainment and something to like, give people a sense of community. So if you're blurring those lines for bad and if you're blurring those lines to then teeter on, like up your own life, we recalibrate and get back to our center of gravity here. So thankfully I've not seen it, but know that it exists and know that it's very, very real. And it's sad to kind of see that, but again, it's really dependent on the person. And that's where I'd love to go back to college and sit in a sociology class and break all of this down because it's, it's something that our society grapples with in a ton of different ways. So more power to everyone who does it responsibly and does not lose the plot. But to those who do, like you know, wishing well for people to get back to reality here.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah, I mean, it's capitalism.

[Kim Michen]

It's capitalism. It sits at the center of it. It's all of it. It's all the isms. It's really all the isms. If we, if we want to break it down, we can add a few more isms in there. That's the root of so many things. Yep.

[Chelsea Charles]

So I have just one little anecdote from online that kind of relates to this. In the cult article entitled I Got Divorced because of Sports gambling, Danielle, a 39 year old teacher from New York, recounts her story. Danielle thought she was building a life with someone until she realized she was actually building a lie. She met her now ex husband Pete in college. They reconnected years later, fell in love, moved in together, got engaged, and started trying to have a baby. Along the way, Pete admitted to a past gambling problem. But he promised it was all behind him. He joined Gamblers Anonymous, got a sponsor, and for a while everything seemed fine. Until after it wasn't. Little signs started to appear. Pete obsessing over sports he never used to care about. His mood swings started with every game. Then came a suspicious cash advance and eventually the truth. Pete was deep in debt. Not a few hundred dollars, forty thousand dollars in mostly high interest lines of credit and loans. He'd taken out behind her back. All to support a hidden gambling addiction. She found out the same day their second round of fertility treatments had. They'd been trying to build a family while she was still navigating the heartbreak of infertility. He was secretly betting away their future. They divorced quickly. She gave him their last $20,000 in savings just so that he could survive. He moved back in with his mom. She kept the house and the car, and later built a new life, remarried, and had a child. So I read this article, and that story was. Was just one of a few that was telling stories about how it started off as just a fun hobby, and then it became a slippery slope into something just a little bit more sinister. But it's just a consistent, stark reminder of how something can start off so harmless and then just transform into something else. But then again, that's how cults work. It begins with community. It begins with routine. And before you know it, you're sacrificing your savings, your stability. And the most dangerous part is how normalized it can all seem in the beginning. So that story was a little dark.

[Kim Michen]

No, I'm like, poor girl. She got up, though. But $20 or $20,000, she had to help.

[Chelsea Charles]

I don't know. Why did she help him? I would have my money.

[Kim Michen]

I would sue him. I know. Yeah, sue him for damages. Lessons learned, though. We got to wish her well. She's free from that man. But he. He was in a call. He was in a call that was false.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so I want to transition to something a little bit more fun and airy. And this game is called culty or committed. Okay, so I'm just going to rapid fire say these prompts of just random situations, and you let. Let me know if this is a little culty or it's just committed.

[Kim Michen]

Okay. I like this game. Let's go.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so first draft day PowerPoint presentations with animations and themed music.

[Kim Michen]

Committed. That's so sweet. Somebody put a lot of effort into that.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so wearing the same lucky jersey every Sunday for 16 weeks straight.

[Kim Michen]

Do we wash it or not wash it?

[Chelsea Charles]

We do not wash it.

[Kim Michen]

Committed but funky.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's very funky. Doesn't Patrick Mahomes do something like that?

[Kim Michen]

He has a special. I think he wears a special. Like brief briefs or he has something special he wears.

[Chelsea Charles]

So lucky draws and people committed it. People were online, like, does he wash the draws? I have to.

[Kim Michen]

I think he has enough money that he probably does wash the draws. I. I feel like he would Watch it. I feel like he would. And I feel like his wife would be like, hey, we should watch this. I feel like he definitely does. I think that's timid. I know people who do exactly. They like to Febreze it and hang it up. I think it's funky. But like you do you. It's not. It's not mine to wear, you know, like, I'm good. Okay.

[Chelsea Charles]

Fly to Vegas every year to do the draft live. Even if you don't talk to these people for the rest of the year.

[Kim Michen]

Love, committed. I think that's fun. I think that's so fun. One time a year. It's not like it's. Yeah, one time a year. I think that's cute. Okay.

[Chelsea Charles]

Spending an entire lunch break editing your draft strategy spreadsheet at your next non sports related job.

[Kim Michen]

I'm gonna say that commit. That's committed. Because work can be stressful. So if you want to spend your hour in La La Land, I. More power to you. I think that's sweet. I think so many things are sweet. I just. I root for people. I just try to see the good. This world is so damn stressful. Like, if making a PowerPoint with little animations makes you happy. Like, yes. If sitting there eating a stale kale salad in a shitty office job with bad, bad lights and editing strategy makes you feel good, like more power to you.

[Chelsea Charles]

Do you. Boo Boo. Okay.

[Kim Michen]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

All right. So then my final one, declining a wedding or large event RSVP because they fall on the fantasy playoff weekend.

[Kim Michen]

That suspect. It's suspect committed, but super suspect. Like if you were my homegirl and you're not coming to my wedding because you or your man has a fantasy draft, like I'm looking at you for Kimmy Auto draft exists. So that is funky and. And suspect and questionable. That would be a little culty. I would be offended. I would be sad.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, so we have one.

[Kim Michen]

One.

[Chelsea Charles]

One that's culty.

[Kim Michen]

One that's one one that's a little off. But all of these power to you. Now if these happen inside my home, I think I'll have different conversation. Right? Like when it's strangers, I think it's one thing. When it's like your person, that's when you're like, we should reassess and like sit down with a marriage counselor or something. I don't know. But outside looking in, be all these strangers. Good for them. But don't bring that stuff over here by me. Period.

[Chelsea Charles]

Same. Okay, so now we've reached a part in our episode where we have to deliver our verdict. Okay, so based on our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back or get the fuck out. Where do you think fantasy football falls in?

[Kim Michen]

I think it's live your life. I think it's 100% live your life life. Have fun. Do you celebrate it? Watch yourself if you are engaging in ways that seem a little cray cray and maybe have a trusted advisor or friend who is not scared to check you. But I, in my unbiased overall opinion, think it's live your life. Yes, but what are you thinking?

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, I'm going to say watch your back exactly for the reason that you stated, because, yes, enjoy yourself. Like we said, this world needs a little bit of fun and community and all things, however, comma, so slippery slope. It can get a little dangerous when you start, you know, adding money when money gets involved. So just gonna say watch it back a little bit.

[Kim Michen]

Fair. Fair. I love this. I love this. For us, as long as it's not get the fuck out. We are so good.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes. Oh, no, absolutely, girl. Come on. Okay. First of all, I just wanna say thank you so much for joining us for this episode today. It was super, super fun. If any of the listeners want to like follow you on any socials, can you plug yourself for me?

[Kim Michen]

Oh, my God, yeah. Please plug away. I'm at kimmichex, so at K I M M I C H E X. My fantasy football team name is checks over stripe, the H E X over strikes. Very cute. But Kimmichex on everywhere on social. Make sure you tap into the NFL network all season long. So follow along all season and when you get your Colt fantasy up and running with some listeners, you gotta tap me in. Tap me in. I gotta come join or just follow. So this was so fun. Thank you. I'm very happy. We have decided that it's a little bit of watch your back but a lot of like, live your life enough for fun. And maybe we've encouraged somebody to play fantasy because it is a very good time. Low stakes, fun, community, shit talking and enjoying watching football, dawg.

[Chelsea Charles]

You need to like, I don't know if you ever wanted a career in sales. Listen, mama, I got it. Got it.

[Kim Michen]

Thank you, thank you. My next career, I've already started. Perfect.

[Chelsea Charles]

Well, culties, thanks so much for listening. Join us for a new episode next week. And in the meantime, stay culty but not too cold.

[Amanda Montell]

Sounds like a cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. This episode was produced and hosted by Chelsea Charles. Our Managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult Cult on Instagram for all the discourse Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com soundslikeacult. Okay culties, you're going to want to stop what you're doing and listen very closely because Bellesa and I are giving away spicy toys to every single one of you. That's right, everyone who signs up wins something special. If you haven't already heard of Bellesa, let me turn you on to it. They're a By women for everyone company that's completely flipping the script on sexual wellness and and now they're hooking you up. You've probably seen Bellesa's viral toys pop up on your for you page. The rose blew up for a reason. It's gorgeous. It's flower shaped, it operates on suction. It's iconic. Their Whisper collection, which is practically silent, is also famous, although quiet. I also recommend their strong, smart and spicy Pebble Pro. And of course I had to hook all of you up. So my friends at Bellesa and I are sending out free toys or gift cards to everyone who signs up. You heard that right. Every single one of you wins something. Just click on the link in the episode description or head to bbvibes.com cult that's bb V-I-B e s.com c u l t b b vibes.com c u.

[Kim Michen]

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