The Cult of Gooning

Summary

Sounds Like A Cult

Episode Title: The Cult of Gooning
Release Date: June 30, 2026
Hosts: Amanda Montell, Reese Oliver, Iman Hariri-Kia
Guest: Daniel Kolitz (Author of “The Goon Squad,” Harper’s Magazine)

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the world of “gooning”—a term describing a niche digital subculture centered around extended, ritualized masturbatory practices and intensive pornography consumption. The hosts, joined by journalist Daniel Kolitz, dissect gooning’s practices, language, online communities, and its parallels with cult behavior. The discussion ranges from humorous outsider perspectives to serious questions about online sexuality, loneliness, masculinity, and internet subcultures in the digital age.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Introducing Gooning and Its Culture (01:31–10:53)

What is Gooning?

• Gooning involves edging (delaying orgasm), often accompanied by “copious amounts of pornography,” usually in highly stimulating, often communal online settings (07:10).
• Members might join Discord servers (up to 50,000 users), live-stream themselves, or join “goon caves” set up with multiple screens and EDM music (12:14).

Origin & Growth

• Popularity rose post-2021, likely fueled by isolation during the pandemic and increased access to online porn.
• Gooning’s precise origin is “fractal,” popping up in unrelated online corners simultaneously (11:16).

Language and Lingo

• The subculture has its own jargon: “goon state” (nirvana-like trance after extended edging), “goon babble,” “goon cap,” and “goon cave” (13:31, 35:40).
• This echo of cultish language ramps up a sense of belonging among participants.

“For Gooners or goonettes, the act of masturbating and consuming porn is the turn on in itself. The form factor... is what you are here for as a Gooner.”
—Reese Oliver (07:10)

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2. Gooning as a "Cult" (10:53–15:43)

• Cultish Features: Rituals, insular lingo, hierarchy (often with porn stars or concepts like "pornography itself" as cult leaders), and social reinforcement.
• Roleplay & Irony: Many gooners are aroused by the idea of being enthralled—roleplaying being “in a cult”—rather than literally losing all control (27:04).

“What’s interesting to me about this subculture is that they are turned on by the idea of being a cult member, by the idea of surrendering their life to this higher cause of pornography.”
—Daniel Kolitz (27:04)

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3. Notable Rituals & Community Dynamics (15:43–23:24)

• Communal vs. Solo: Some engage privately, others join “wank battles” (competitive/group edging), with Discord/Zoom calls featuring live shared porn and active “porn DJs” (41:14).
• Irony & Play: Rituals like fake “recovery” and goon babble further the blurred line between reality and ironic roleplay (29:55).
• Masculinity & Homosociality: For some, gooning is a space for men to engage in homosocial (occasionally sexualized) behavior without threatening heteronormative identity (17:25–19:00).

“Jacking off in an internet room full of your closest bros... is not gay. But being nice to women oftentimes is construed as gay nowadays.”
—Amanda Montell (19:00)

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4. Dangers, Dark Sides, & Extreme Cases (23:24–24:44; 45:15+)

• Escalation and Tragedy: Example of "Saint Goon"—a man posthumously idolized after dying by suicide following an exhibitionist crime, despite not being directly part of the gooning community (19:20–22:26).
• Excess & Harm: Documented cases of extreme behavior—blacking out windows, drug-fueled binges, self-mutilation in extreme subgroups, and overlapping with incel, racist, and misogynist communities (45:15).
• Pornification of Social Media: Gooning can lead to the over-sexualization of non-pornographic women (e.g., influencers), blurring boundaries and, as hosts warn, possibly furthering predatory attitudes (54:22).

“I think that the implications... for just like interacting with women... telling [men] to look at influencers on TikTok that aren’t even making porn and treating that like porn... is teaching men something very scary and dangerous.”
—Reese Oliver (54:22)

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5. Subcultures & Online Structures (47:09–48:04)

• Subcult Groups: Notable ones include “Noodle Dude’s” Discord (noted for innovative “porn music videos”), and deeply disturbing offshoots like the “Black New World Order,” involving racism, castration fetishes, and self-harm.
• No Central Leader: Gooning’s “leader” is more the abstract concept of pornography than any person (32:08).

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6. The Goon State & Aspirations (37:11–38:42; 52:46–53:27)

• Goon State: The ultimate goal—a trance achieved via hours of sensory overload and edging, described as “high while high,” a blissful, pre-orgasmic, meditative state (37:11).
• Not All About Orgasm: For some, climax is discouraged; the pleasure comes from sustaining anticipation. Others equate reaching goon state with an eventual intense orgasm (52:46).

“The goon state is a state of edging bliss. You still have not yet come. The goal is to forever be in anticipation of this gratification.”
—Reese Oliver (52:44)

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7. Parody, Mainstreaming, and Lingering Risks (14:17–15:43)

• Language Leaks: Gooning and incel language have entered mainstream (and even LGBTQ) slang, sometimes stripped of their toxic roots but risking normalization of problematic behavior.
• Parody and Desensitization: Joking with or adopting these terms can “defang” or perpetuate the original attitudes.

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8. Game: “Culty or Just Cringe?” (49:14–51:55)

The hosts and Daniel Kolitz run through common gooner behaviors, rating them as “culty” or “just cringe,” e.g.:

• Writing love letters to porn stars: “Cringe; guys have been doing this for 50 years.” (49:29)
• Letting Reddit decide your orgasm schedule: “Cult territory for sure.” (51:13)
• Turning a spare room into a goon cave: “Could go either way; depends on intensity and involvement.” (51:21)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Gooning is the least sexy cult we’ve covered.” —Iman Hariri-Kia (10:54)
• “...if you blast yourself with stimulating media while stimulating yourself, you can enter a kind of... flow state... I’ve entered a flow state reading a great book, you know, and... it hasn’t been quite the goon state...” —Daniel Kolitz (38:42)
• “I think maybe this is like nasty Comic Con.” —Amanda Montell (49:01)
• “This is a get the fuck out while you still can.” —Iman Hariri-Kia (55:36)
• “Final verdict: Ew.” —All (55:57)

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Important Timestamps

• What is gooning?: 07:10
• “Goon state” explained: 37:11
• Online communities described: 11:16, 12:14, 47:09
• Cult dynamics, rituals: 27:04, 41:14
• Notable dangers/extreme cases: 19:20, 45:15
• Guest interview with Daniel Kolitz begins: 26:09
• “Culty or Just Cringe” game: 49:14
• Final verdict: 54:14–55:57

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Conclusion & Cult Verdict

The hosts agree:
The Cult of Gooning lands squarely in the “Get the Fuck Out” category. While much of the community’s activity is rooted in irony and roleplay, substantial risks remain—particularly in the normalization of extreme behaviors, blurred digital boundaries, and the over-sexualization of real people. Gooning’s complex blend of parody, loneliness, and compulsion might seem “camp,” but the hosts warn of its broader cultural implications, especially for interactions with women and young men’s online wellbeing.

“The over-consumption of pornography and the over-sexualization of women, especially real-life women, without their consent... even if right now some gooners are behaving harmlessly, it’s going to devolve into something really nefarious.”
—Iman Hariri-Kia (55:17)

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Final host verdict: “Ew.” (55:57)

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For more discussions like this, follow Sounds Like A Cult and catch Amanda Montell's books and Daniel Kolitz’s writing for further reading on internet culture and cultish communities.

Transcript

[Amanda Montell]

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[Reese Oliver]

It is both a very communal and a very individual cult.

[Daniel Kolitz]

I want to be clear. There's a lot of sweetness in this space. A lot of these people are looking out for each other, but basically they're all sort of masturbating in a zoom call, essentially where they're all watching the same porn and they're live streaming themselves. Getting off and someone's DJing the porn.

[Amanda Montell]

No, that's nice. EW this is sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Amanda Montel, author of books including Cultish the Language of Fanaticism.

[Reese Oliver]

I'm Reese Oliver. Sounds like a Cult's resident rhetoric scholar.

[Iman Haririkiah]

And I'm Iman Haririkiah, author of Female Fantasy and Once in a timeline, which will hit bookshelves on October 13th.

[Amanda Montell]

Every week on the show we discuss a different fanatical fringe group, group or guru. Something that puts the cult and culture from celebrity wellness brands to the Sims. To try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really?

[Iman Haririkiah]

And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watch your back, or a get the out.

[Amanda Montell]

After all, in 2026, the year of our Lord, cultish thinking and affiliation falls along a continuum, and not all cults are equally bad. For a lot of people, being in a cult of sorts could look as harmless as tuning into Love island every single night or being a little bit too involved in a Trader Joe's Facebook group. But for others, cultish behaviors take a turn for the more destructive and brain rot inducing, like lurking on incel forums and living to look smacks.

[Reese Oliver]

Or possibly like members of today's cult who have taken a dive into an expansive digital vortex urging you to shut out the world in favor of giving in to your most carnal pleasures at all times. Today we are getting hot and heavy as we drop into the gooniverse, AKA the cult of gooning. Guys, what are your thoughts?

[Iman Haririkiah]

I'm so happy we're doing this episode, honestly, because I have talked so much about gooning with people in my everyday life over the course of the last like six months. I first heard about gooning from a Cosmopolitan article that talked about just like the general definition of gooning before the article that we're going to discuss later today went mega viral. But I really dove into the depths of of gooning as a concept when I was driving back from a wedding in a car with about five guys I knew from college and we got into a long conversation about gooning, whether gooning works, whether all gooners were incels. And we read the Wikipedia definition out loud like word for word and then had sort of like a roundtable discussion on this road trip.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, so you've already podcasted about gooning?

[Iman Haririkiah]

Yeah, but with like five CIS straight men. So this is a lot more interesting.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, yeah, when I first heard the term goon, I imagined the goonies. I was like, oh, gooning. Like people are larping as little gremlins. Like that sounds nice. I was wrong. Weirdly, I heard about gooning, namely the viral article whose author we're going to be interviewing in a bit from my literary Agent who less her heart, but she's not like the most extremely online person in the world. But she was like, have you read the gooning piece? And I was like, the what? No. But yeah, last summer, I think it was this super viral piece from Harper's magazine titled the Goon Squad subtitle Loneliness, porn's next frontier, and the dream of endless masturbation really took the Internet, even those who aren't super online, by storm. And at first I was like, really excited to learn more, but then I disappointed myself because I immediately got really grossed out and decided that this was not going to be my beat until today.

[Reese Oliver]

That is so fair. I think I first learned of gooning because much like the author of the Goon Squad, Daniel, my boyfriend, came to me at some point and was like, dude, there's so much porn on all of my social media feeds and I don't know why. And it was definitely something that started happening after Elon bought Twitter. And there's always the argument. I feel like what normalizes this kind of thing is people saying that all of the content you consume is algorithmic. But I think people forget that there are larger forces at play that are doing things to these algorithms, such as, I don't know, making the decision to make all your Twitter likes private, so that way you can use the platform to your heart's content. That's an Elon move right there. So yeah, a few months ago I started seeing gooning pop up more and more. And then recently I read an essay about Britney Spears at a conference and my co panelist had written about gooning and infinite jest and he wrote about the infinite scroll of gooning and kind of the goon state that these gooners are hoping to achieve. So we had a really lovely conversation about pop and parasociality and sex.

[Amanda Montell]

Lovely.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, gorgeous.

[Amanda Montell]

I will say. Even though, like, my stomach wouldn't allow me to dive as deep into gooning, when the article was first recommended to me as I thought I might be able to, I did immediately clock it as a cult and put it on our list of episodes for 2026. So, like, this was an inevitability. And I'm excited to learn more today. Should we share some exposition for culties who, like me, might be on more, you know, wholesome sides of the Internet?

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah. For those of you using the Internet for less nefarious purposes, if the word goon to you is a mystery beyond, like cheesy gangster movies, which was my original association of the word, don't fret I'm here to help. So gooning is essentially a specific way to masturbate. One that involves the practice of edging oneself, which is practice of bringing oneself almost, but not quite to climax repeatedly. That's only the first part of gooning really. The other core component is that this must be done while consuming just absolutely copious amounts of pornography. As much as you possibly can. Whatever suits your fancy, shove it into your eye holes. For Gooners or goonettes, the female equivalent, the act of masturbating and consuming porn is the turn on in itself. The content of the porn is all just like added layers of whatever fetish suits your finger fancy. The form factor however, is what you are here for as a Gooner. You are here for bright flashing gifs, images flying past your eyes at light speed to two loud EDM beats while a spiral overlays the whole thing. Goon caps, which are essentially goon memes are another huge part of this gooniverse Goon caves where Gooners watch as many split screens of porn as they possibly can. Basically what I'm getting at here is that the goal is quantity, not necessarily quality. Gooner porn is hyperbolic, very camp in every sense of the word. It is fully hedonistic and self serving and dedicated to itself just for the sake of being porn. Some, but not all Gooners even identify as pornosexual, a term meaning that they derive all of their sexual fulfillment from porn self pleasuring and feel essentially no need for irl sexual contact with another human being.

[Amanda Montell]

It's such a culture, it's such a culture.

[Reese Oliver]

Like there's truly so many ways to engage. Today's guest, the author of the Goon Squad, Daniel Kollitz, did a deep dive into the Gooner verse for Harpers, which is what I based today's research on. In his words, the goal of the Gooner is to reach the goon state. So with that I think it's time we break down a little bit more of the origins of this cult.

[Amanda Montell]

What was the big bang here?

[Reese Oliver]

Big bang?

[Iman Haririkiah]

The big non bang.

[Amanda Montell]

Truly I'm gag talking about gooning with such an academic register.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Like we need to take this seriously, we need to analyze this with integrity.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh God no. I don't know. I like, I have a pretty strong stomach for like gross shit kink stuff but for some reason, I don't know, I guess because it's mostly dudes and that just like sends me into a state, as you know, well and we

[Reese Oliver]

talked a little bit about like the visceral Quality of the term, like it just, it feels very, I don't know, depraved is the right word, word for it, but there's something primitive about it and it feels a little cringe worthy.

[Iman Haririkiah]

And I also just think knowing the state of like mainstream free online porn today, imagining what consuming hours upon hours of that kind of pornography, which is usually like very, very sexist and definitely nonethical when it comes to the treatment of women, imagining how that brain rots people is, I think what makes it, at least for me, the ickiest. It's not even the act of like waiting for hours upon hours upon hours to orgasm and reach nirvana. It's the thought of consuming so much of that kind of tonal porn for sure.

[Amanda Montell]

And all in service of like, to me, there's the sense that they're actually like making fun of sex. They're like taking all of the good parts of eroticism and kind of parodying it with something like really perverted and clownish. And it's like we're living in a time when having a boyfriend is cringe. Connection is try hard. And so now we get this. I guess it doesn't just like gross me out, it annoys me.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Last thing I'll say for something so sex forward. Gooning is the least sexy cult I feel like we've covered. And that's saying a lot even less

[Amanda Montell]

sexy than American Girl Doll.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, so true.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Anyway, let's get into the origins of

[Amanda Montell]

the cult of Gooning.

[Iman Haririkiah]

There is surprisingly contention about where gooning began. Various goon practices popped up in different areas at relatively similar times. So one Gooner interviewed for the Harper's piece likened the fractured movement to maga in its inability to pin down a linear fashion. Wow. Cult of Maga. Cult of gooning. Kiss. Photos of goon caves began populating the Internet in 2021. Nothing like a global pandemic to spur droves into Internet porn addictions. Gooners live on Internet forums like Reddit, but Discord really seems to be where the party is at the Goonverse. One discord server has over 50k users. These servers are online hubs where gooners can chat, but more importantly, to swap and stream porn, to masturbate to asynchronously, though often with the camera on.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, so 50k. Like, I'm relieved to hear that there aren't like millions of people in these discords. I mean, it's more than I wish there were, but I don't know, there are what, like almost 9 billion people on the Planet at this point I'm just trying to like determine how big a threat this is to the general culture.

[Reese Oliver]

I think especially it gets kind of troubling when the whole thesis of guning is turning your whole world into porn. It's like how many people are walking around thinking like that? And it's not good.

[Amanda Montell]

Who even has the time?

[Reese Oliver]

How do you prioritize like that?

[Amanda Montell]

I can't.

[Reese Oliver]

I prioritize gooning under late stage capitalism. It's really the struggle of the modern man for sure.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, of the. Exactly. Now, one thing that really sticks out to me that Gooners have in common with the incel community is their love of lingo. Good God. Gooners are obsessed with their little terms for masturbating or genitalia. And that culty lingo really unites them as silly as it sounds. For example, in reaching the goon state, one might begin by speaking in what is called goon babble, a nonsensical spew of made up words, noises, et cetera. Here are a few that we've encountered in our research. Wobble, meat pump, sluts, baiter.

[Reese Oliver]

I didn't want to listen more than that. Speaking in tongues.

[Amanda Montell]

Now the word gooning itself has escaped the gooniverse and entered gay lexicon as a word to essentially mean gagging, living, loving. For example, oh my fucking God, your outfit. I'm gooning. And if you want to hear an example, you can just google the drag queen Katya and she will demonstrate. But yeah, it kind of reminds me of how a few key pieces of incel terminology have infiltrated the mainstream in kind of like a silly way. Like I am always talking about how I'm jester maxing.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Also mogging. I. I feel like I hear mogging constantly now in New York, but now I'm gonna say sounds like a cult. I'm gooning.

[Amanda Montell]

Sounds like a cult. I'm gooning. And we're all. Sounds like a cult. Pilled.

[Reese Oliver]

We are so slack. Pilled. Slack pill. Slack whore. Slack maxing.

[Iman Haririkiah]

And what do we do? That sounds like a cult. We cult, Max. We're cult maxing right now.

[Reese Oliver]

We mog various cultural cults.

[Amanda Montell]

My question though, and I ponder this on a daily basis, but do you think that the infiltration of some of this terminology that has really problematic origins into the mainstream is purely innocent and silly and a way of kind of like defanging it? Or do you think there's a risk that it's actually perpetuating the problematic ideas that originally came with it? Because I think it can be kind of both sometimes I think it can be both.

[Iman Haririkiah]

But I do think most people that are using language that got its start in incel communities have no idea about the origins of what they're talking about.

[Amanda Montell]

Of course, I'm just wondering like, if you've heard gooning from a drag queen or from us in a fun way at brunch, then when you hear about what gooning really is, are you going to be more desensitized to it and be like, oh my God, you, me, we're gooning. Yeah, like I don't know.

[Iman Haririkiah]

That's a good question. I think perhaps, I think you might be less incentivized to take it seriously.

[Amanda Montell]

Exactly. I'm just trying to understand the risks of how this like very niche cult whose like biggest sub Discord has 50k people in it. I want to know how it might be slow slithering into the mainstream.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, I think it's just that like, even if in a small gross bubble that we're all cringing at, this is a type of person that exists that we are normalizing more and more and the degree to which it is roleplay within its own universe. I don't think that that part is necessarily making it into the mainstream. And I think maybe that's where some of the danger lies. But I think it's time to get into some rituals. So what does actually being a Gooner look like? Right. What is your goal? What are you doing? What's the vibes? So oftentimes Gooners see completing the cycle and becoming porn as part of the journey towards reaching goon state, which is what brings those from silent consumers of gooner content to posters themselves of said gooner content. This is kind of the cult recruitment aspect, how you go from inductee to inductor. There are as many pockets of the Internet to goon in as there are sexual tastes, that is to say infinite. That's another reason why I think this cult is really hard to pin down in terms of how dangerous it is. Because, you know, there are a lot of really healthy, beautiful, community building ways to engage with sexuality. And there are also a lot of really dangerous, dangerous, scary ways that shouldn't be spoken about on the Internet. And both of them unfortunately do interact under this umbrella, which is definitely something to be wary of. It can be really difficult to pin down a stereotypical gooner the way you can an incel. Their only uniting quality is a love of like way too much porn. What that porn is and how you present yourself in everyday life. How much of an impact that has on your everyday life, that's totally up to you. Gooning does not discriminate from finance bros to trans E girls. There is a place for you somewhere on this side of the Internet, I promise someone wants to see a goon baby. This is also another weirdly wholesome reason I think gooning is popular amongst straight men. It's often a space for men to engage in homosocial or even homosexual behavior with each other in ways that they can still kind of construe as straight due to the nature of the porn. We'll talk about this later with Daniel. This is especially prevalent in phenomena such as the wank battle. And that sort of suspension of disbelief is really what I want want to emphasize here. Gooning for a lot of people is about roleplay. Most Gooners are not actually porn addicted, letting their lives dissolve into nothingness. They are turned on by the idea of devoting their lives to porn, but like they've still got to pay the bills. Goon state is a fleeting ideal and that is what makes it so special. If transcendence were available to everyone, the cult would crumble because there would be no real life to avoid because everybody would just be sitting around jacking off all day. I think if people were going broke because of their dedication to getting themselves off, we would be hearing about this more than we already are. But that isn't to say that there is not some damaging IRL stuff happening that is being tied to the gooniverse in one way or another.

[Iman Haririkiah]

It is so funny to me that men could be just learning to meditate in groups in order to see and reach nirvana or some sort of inner peace. Like they could be sitting in a circle and meditating together, but instead they're on online forums and virtual rooms jacking off for hours in order to reach nirvana. Anyway, just pointing that out.

[Amanda Montell]

No, thank you for pointing that out. And it's really reflective of these times. It's the late stage cultiverse of the Internet age.

[Reese Oliver]

Just super quick, I want to say I think it's really funny that jacking off in an Internet room full of your closest bros, your goon buds, is not gay. But being nice to women oftentimes is construed as gay nowadays. Like that's the whole joke. Like fellas, is having a girlfriend gay? But like this shit isn't. And I think that that's, that's funny.

[Amanda Montell]

No, 100%. It's like I can easily see someone thinking meditating was gayer than jerking off.

[Iman Haririkiah]

In a group chat with a bunch of men. Yeah, something to unpack in the cult of masculinity episode.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, so how bad can this goon shit really get? Like, where does this call go at its worst?

[Iman Haririkiah]

Well, Amanda, let me clue you in to some of the worst case scenarios. In January of 2025, several dozen young men who aligned themselves with with the gooning community rallied themselves around the recently deceased Nautica Malone. Malone was a 27 year old man who patronized a coffee shop called Bikini Beans. Maybe you've heard of bikini baristas on TikTok, if not pretty self explanatory. Days prior to his death, Malone had assaulted a barista at this establishment by masturbating as he pulled up to the window, nude from the waist down. Disgusting. She was filming. And this of course went viral. Daniel writes, the view count was still climbing when Malone drove a few towns over and shot himself in the head in the front seat of his Dodge Challenger, leaving a note to his wife and young children to ask for their forgiveness. He had a wife and young children? I'm sorry to draw the wrong conclusion from that paragraph.

[Amanda Montell]

Holy shit.

[Reese Oliver]

And your daily coffee shop is bikini beans?

[Amanda Montell]

Men make me sick.

[Iman Haririkiah]

The aftermath of Malone's death was in Gen Z chronically online nihilistic doomer fashion, an explosion of meme worthy semi ironic mourning dubbed the gooneral Stop.

[Amanda Montell]

Ugh. As much as I love a portmanteau

[Iman Haririkiah]

that stopped me in my tracks, I have chills. A livestreamed event despite Malone having no association with the gooning community whatsoever. Oh my God. He became a martyr Saint Goon. Yeah, St. Goon. The sheer audacious and exhibitionist nature of Malone's assault was enough for Gooners to latch on and martyr him as one of their own. But this is where Gunner meets incel. The message behind gathering around Malone seems to be my lack of sexual fulfillment is the world's problem, and I am a victim because the world won't pornify itself for me.

[Amanda Montell]

Wow, okay. I can see why this wouldn't catch on the same way the manosphere has. That's a high demand. Like for the world to pornify itself for you. Geez Louise, the evangelicals would never allow that. And ultimately, like, they have the power. This is horrifying though. All jokes aside, it's just so crazy

[Reese Oliver]

to me that he had no association with these people whatsoever. And just in his death they were like, oh, here's somebody else who's also obsessed with getting off. But again, I think it's Also, like, he interacting with this in real life in a way that I think these gooners don't, which I think is why they idolized him so much. And I don't know what to make of that conclusion, but.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Yeah, well, it was kind of like how later in our interview we'll talk about how gooning is sort of a type of porn fandom fanfic community. And one of the key rules of fanfic is that you're not supposed to take your fanfic ships to real living people living out in real world communities. And st. Goon broke the number one rule of goon fandom.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. And I actually, I take back what I said about wanting the world to pornify itself for you being like a high demand, because actually the world at least so many, so many corners of social media, not even corners the middle of the room, that is social media is pornifying itself. You know, like, we are living in an increasingly pornified world. And I don't mean to sound like a fucking nun about it. Like, I would sell nudes, but that's not what we're talking about.

[Reese Oliver]

I think that raunch culture is upswinging in tandem with conservatism. I think the pendulum be swinging.

[Amanda Montell]

That's what it is. Yeah, it's ooh. And now I'm thinking of, like, other things swinging.

[Reese Oliver]

And it's a gross episode.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, it's ew. We were talking about the power of ooh being a complete sentence before and just like, live your life, watch your back, get the fuck out. I don't know. Ew.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Ew. There's a fourth option. This just dropped on. Sounds like a cult. Ew. Being a full culty analysis.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah. Now that we have got you all nice and edged, it is time that we brought on none other than the iconic Daniel Kullitz to finish you all off.

[Amanda Montell]

Reese.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Finish you off.

[Reese Oliver]

That is exactly how I introduced my conference paper. No.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, my God.

[Reese Oliver]

Because the guy who presented on gooning presented first. Yeah, okay.

[Amanda Montell]

See? And now your life is pornified. God damn. Damn it. For real.

[Reese Oliver]

And with that Daniel Cullitz.

[Amanda Montell]

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[Reese Oliver]

C Mint Mobile for details Daniel welcome to Sounds Like a Cult. Could you introduce yourself to the listeners and explain a bit about your relationship to the Cult of Gooning, please?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Sure. Hi, I'm Daniel Kolitz. I'm a writer. My relationship to the Cult of Gooning is that I spent a long time among them coming to know their ways, coming to know how they feel about the world and their lives, and returned to tell their story.

[Amanda Montell]

Sounds gross. What are you doing to protect your sense of self?

[Daniel Kolitz]

I love these guys I'd have any of them at my house.

[Reese Oliver]

You're living your life right now?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah, sure.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, you have them all in your house?

[Daniel Kolitz]

No, I would have them in my house if they needed a. I mean, currently my house is Gooner free.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, got it. Okay. Gooner. Gooner. It's important to establish that we're going to be calling them Gooners as opposed to Goonists. You have to get a PhD for that. Okay, so there's a lot going on with these Gooners. But viewing them through a cult lens, what do you think is the single cultiest thing about them? Their behaviors, their rituals, their community?

[Daniel Kolitz]

That's a good question. I mean, I think in a weird way they're a kind of ironic cult, meaning I don't think any of them are actually slaves to masturbation in quite the way that they would perhaps like people to believe. I mean, they are masturbating, many of them for four, six hours at a stretch every day, every other day. But a lot of them are claiming that they are going for weeks at a time, that all they care about and think about is porn, that they have no life outside of it, they're quitting their job to masturbate. And that would be the cultiest extreme of it. And there are isolated cases who do live that way. What's interesting to me about this subculture is that they are turned on by the idea of being a cult member, by the idea of surrendering their life to this higher cause of pornography. They are getting off on it. So in a way they are in a pornography cult. But it's just, I would venture most of them because we're talking millions here. Maybe I'm making, completely making that number up, but it does not seem possible, plausible to me. That's various degrees of gooder that we're talking about that. Wouldn't it be so insanely hot if I was in every sense enthralled? The pornography, pornography controlled my life. And if me and, I don't know, a couple hundred thousand other guys did nothing but venerate various pornography goddesses who ran our lives, now that would. So that's like the mainstream of it. And then you have sort of fringier cases, but we are entering sort of more straightforwardly cult like territory. But that's what I got there.

[Amanda Montell]

Wait, can you talk about the more straightforwardly cult like territory?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Sure. I mean, you know, hear about people doing these elaborate tributes where, you know, I think a part of the erotic appeal is a eroticization of abjection. And the idea that the people you're masturbating to would never deign to look at you in real life or never talk to you, and getting off on that degradation, like, I'm disgusting. So at the most extreme end, you know, you would have people that are essentially making shrines to their favorite porn stars and doing what they would call like a daily ritual or whatever, where you're kind of reciting a prayer to that porn star. I mean, other ways, you know, I've reported a. On cults, like real cults in my life. And, I mean, there definitely are parallels. I mean, what I think was interesting, one of them is a disdain for people who leave the community, people who try to break away from the cults, if we want to call this the cults. And so I remember looking, trying to find people who had left the community. I'd never struggled to do so. And eventually I came to learn that was because all of these sort of quitting gooning groups have to be conducted in secret, have to be kind of like very private discourse. Because if they aren't, then active gooners, people still, let's say, living the lifestyle, will essentially infiltrate them, Perhaps pretend to be people trying to quit porn and then will flood the groups with, quote, unquote, triggering pornography to try to get people to again, quote, unquote, relapse.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, that's a whole avenue of content I found was like fake recovery content. And I was like, what the fuck is this?

[Daniel Kolitz]

So we should distinguish that from a kind of erotic role play in which you pretend that you're quitting gooning and then another gooner pretends that he's making you relapse. As with some much on the Internet, there's so many layers of irony at play. Right. That it can be kind of hard to parse what's real and what's fake. I do think that it is the case that, you know, there are people who perceive themselves as having a problem with pornography, masturbation, try to quit. People will hound them and try to get them back. But then, yes, you do have this weird simulation of that same phenomenon. So it's like worlds within worlds, play acting in the guning community.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Yeah, well, guning was a big topic of conversation, I'd say, in the last six months. What do you think? Think the culty factors within the cultural zeitgeist or things that generally happened in the past few months contributed to the rise of gooning in both popularity, but also just general conversation?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Well, I mean, I don't know if the act Itself has grown more popular in recent months. I mean, I would say it's been a pretty steady increase over the last few years. And that would have to do with things like pandemic driving people inside. That would have to do with things like the rise of kind of more private social media like discord. That would have to do with maybe just like the maturation of the online pornography space is like a fact of life and what that has sort of done to people's psyches, for better or for worse, over time recently, to the extent there's more interest in the subject, I think that it probably has to do with this kind of escalation of general dating discourses and discourses about men and discourse about the male loneliness crisis and discourse about third spaces disappearing and discourse about just maladjusted MA Masculinity, I guess, seems to be a perennially buzzy topic the last few years. And I would guess that interest in gooning would tie into that because this would seem like the most like, extreme extension of one more corrosive kind of masculinity.

[Reese Oliver]

I guess something that I find really intriguing about guning is that it is both a very communal and a very individual cult. It doesn't necessarily require the communal aspect, but that's definitely, I think, how you get into the cultiest side of it. But then it's also very much about building your independent relationship with your own own personal porn star. So I'm wondering if you are seeing one kind of cult leader in the midst of all of this or if you think it's different for every Gooner.

[Daniel Kolitz]

I would guess it's different for every. Well, actually, yes. No, I'm completely wrong. Sorry. Alice Delish. I would say the mainstream Gooner, the average Gooner, which I'm going to posit is someone maybe a male between the ages of 22 and 26 or something, although there's a wide range, is vastly more interested in, like, E girls than they are in what you would think of as a conventional, like, studio hardcore porn star. A lot of these Z girls don't even really do porn in a conventional sense. And I think that's part of the appeal. I think a lot of these guys, for lack of a better word, like to be teased, like to surprisingly leave something to the imagination a little bit and sort of look at these. Like they're often treating like, you know, sort of like lewd imagery, but not straight up. But anyway, this woman, Alice Delish, is, I believe, Russian and has this kind of like plastic doll look. Looks Sort of like hyper artificial. It's almost like she's using digital effects to make her skis and actually doll like. And you know, again, being cognizant that there are layers of irony at play here. You know, you find discourse that are like tribute all day to Alice delish or whatever, and people saying, I did my daily prayer to Alice and being obsessed with Alice. And she does have a patreon where she posts more graphic content, although not that graphic to my knowledge. But I mean, what's interesting is that really, I don't think it's an individual porn star or E Girl who is the cult leader here. I think it is the concept, pornography itself. Who's the cult leader? Now, if you look at the kind of like, crazy content these people consume, these porn music videos, which are these like flash cuts, strobe light porn compilations, you notice that they don't really focus on one particular person. It's a succession, thousands of interchangeable bodies. And if you look at the kinds of things these people talk about, they talk about like the goddess pornography. They conceive it as a kind of entity that is dominating them. So it's not one person. It is really the idea of media being dominated by media that I think is foremost at play here, if that sense makes. Makes sense.

[Reese Oliver]

Unfortunately, it does.

[Amanda Montell]

I have just been so distracted by thinking about what Mormons would think of this cult because, like, we did an episode at the end of last year on the cult of Mormon therapists. The mental illness that plagues Mormons, according to their doctrine, is masturbation. They're like, obsessed with it, I guess. I'm wondering who's more obsessed with masturbating Gooners or Mormons.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Well, first of all, I'm sure there is vast overlap between those two categories. But, like, I think a lot of of the gunners I spoke to were people that were like, raised super religious and sort of pornography was turned into this super forbidden thing. And I think that when masturbation is viewed not as perhaps a healthful part of a person's life, but a kind of evil, sinful activity, it takes on an outsized importance, and then it becomes maybe the focal point of your life in a way that it wouldn't otherwise.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, totally. So ex Mormons either become reality TV stars, Gooners. I mean, I don't want to limit them.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Why not both? Amanda, why not both?

[Amanda Montell]

Why not both? Okay, so like you were talking about the layers of irony, but ultimately, when you are participating for hours a day doing a thing, it doesn't Matter if you're doing it ironically or not, because you are doing it. And I think one of the, like, cultural pieces that makes a cult so fun to participate in, whether you're doing it ironically or not, is the lingo. So we were wondering if you could goon babble for us a bit and pick a favorite term or two from the gooner community to define and kind of help us understand what makes a good goon babble word and why.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Sure. I mean, you can put goon in front of anything and it kind of becomes pleasurable to say, to think about. But I think that goon fuel, that's a classic one, and that would just be sort of pornographic clips or gifts that a few gooners would share amongst each other. A goon cap, which is a kind of pornographic meme that can often be very elaborate and again, talks about porn dominating you.

[Amanda Montell]

It kind of reminds me of, like, in pitch Perfect, how the acapella girls put the term aca in front of everything to signal that they're a part of Paula Chocapella.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Well, I think the language does play a significant role in making this, like, a less depressing activity for a lot of people because it's like, if you can make it kind of jokey and ironic and goofy in that way, you perhaps distance yourself from the reality of what it is that you are getting up to.

[Amanda Montell]

Totally. And the word goon is so goofy. I mean, it shares three letters with the word goof, and it has the phonetic qualities of, like, baby babbling, like goo, goo ga ga. Well, it sounds like goo.

[Reese Oliver]

Goo itself is inherently kind of amorphous and, you know, and there's a lot

[Daniel Kolitz]

of goo in the porn that they're watching.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Yeah, I was gonna say goo and goon have a lot of overlap.

[Daniel Kolitz]

A lot of overlap.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Daniel, towards the end of your piece, you compare gooning to gambling, expertly at that.

[Amanda Montell]

What is the jackpot?

[Iman Haririkiah]

Would you say that gooning content sells you? Is there one, like, unifying belief that all cult gooners can agree on?

[Daniel Kolitz]

It's amazing that I forgot this key gooning term, which is the goon state. And that is. I mean, I say this with all seriousness. That is the blissful, the state of masturbation nirvana that all gooners aspire to. And, you know, I conducted this fairly rigorous scientific jacking off survey, gooning survey, about 100 people, and I asked them, a, do you believe in the goon state? And then B, have you ever tasted. Now I'm going to pause to. To better define the goon state. The goon state is like you have been sitting in front of the laptop masturbating to E Girls and flashcard pornography for four hours, five hours, six hours, and you enter a total trance state. You enter a state where the world falls away, you're at peace. I think someone described it as being high, while high, perfect, back in the womb, odd as that association may be, just like no better feeling, and I would say no more than perhaps 30% claim to have reached it. Who knows what percentage of them were lying and then. But no, nobody disbelieved it. Nobody was like, I don't think that's real. They all believed that they were pumping towards some definite goal. And I think that by the end I was inclined to believe that some version of it was so far as if you blast yourself with stimulating media while stimulating yourself, you can enter a kind of I, you know, I've entered a flow state reading a great book, you know, and I mean, it hasn't been quite the goon state, but I do see there being something possible there. I mean, probably not like you're entering some kind of fourth dimension of pleasure. But.

[Amanda Montell]

Daniel, what book do you think helped you enter the closest to the goon state you've ever experienced?

[Daniel Kolitz]

That's an amazing question. Well, honestly, I was thinking a lot about one book that has done that for me, which is William Gaddis's JR, which is this famously forbidding, like 800 page postmodernist novel that is composed entirely in sort of garbled fragments of dialogue with no sort of character tags or very limited description. The reason I was thinking about it was because, I mean, obviously at no point in American history were tons of people reading difficult experimental novels. But I was just the gooning seemed like the end of reading to me. The end of a culture in which such. The production and consumption of such works was plausible because it was sort of the furthest extension of like short form video content culture. I don't want to sound like a moralizer, I don't want to sound like pedantic, but that book was definitely on my mind. And also that book happens to be about the sort of deterioration of US culture at the hands of media technology, primarily finance, in the case of that book. So that would that and that. And I have entered a kind of goon state reading the great language Blame Goddess. So that would be my answer.

[Amanda Montell]

Thank you. And if any listeners are still here, we have a few more questions. If you've ever blasted synth beats from your boombox or burned CDs for your besties. This one's for you. As people get older, much like their music tastes, their health needs change. AG1 is the simple daily daily health drink designed to deliver over 75 essential daily nutrients in pre and probiotics to support energy, digestion and mood so you can make the most out of every decade and dance break. Learn more@drink ag1.com introducing Taco Bell's new

[Daniel Kolitz]

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[Amanda Montell]

Get it with any item on the

[Daniel Kolitz]

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[Reese Oliver]

Okay, earlier we spoke a little bit about ritual as it pertains to the Gooner. I'm wanting to hear a little bit more about that, about the importance of ritual in the Gooner Lunar's daily routine, if you will.

[Daniel Kolitz]

I mean, well, there are a lot of like sort of games and practices, you know, like, I don't know if you guys have ever. Wank battling is one is one of those terms. I think I get into that in the article and that is sort of like going back and forth with porn and trying to get each other off by learning each other's preferences and trying to send the best porn, the porn you think they'll like the most. Basically, boys can be sweet. I know there's, you know, I want to be clear. There's a lot of sweetness in this space. A lot of these people are looking out for each other and I mean just the streaming. So I would guess that this is a fairly small percentage of the community, but a lot of this stuff happens in stream rooms. So like imagine like a zoom call like we're in right now, but every person is. This is actually, I'm going to end this analogy.

[Reese Oliver]

I think we.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah, yeah, but. But basically they're all sort of masturbating in a zoom call effect, essentially where they're all watching the same porn and they're live streaming themselves, getting off and someone's DJing the porn. You know, you got someone who's got a good porn music video playlist or something who's on ox.

[Amanda Montell]

No, that's nice.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah, there's a, a bunch of stuff like that.

[Reese Oliver]

I think. I also think about like the setting up and the dismantling of the goon cave, especially for the gooner who still lives with their parent or even for the gooner who doesn't. Like, I think that says something different about their ritual and their level of commitment. Women, if it's just a permanent fixture in their home. Is that something you encountered?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah, I spoke to people with, let's say, permanent setups for sure. I mean, there was this ice shack I spoke to who kind of has to spin it up and disassemble it every time because he lives with his parents. But I think there's, there's a wide range. I mean, again, I would guess as far as like a full fledged cave, that's probably a smaller percentage just because there's. It's a real financial investment. You know, all those screens and lights and toys and things of that nature. But everyone's got their own little set up, a little ritual. And even within, you can get a goon cave going on a single laptop screen. If you open up enough boxes of porn, you know, enough tabs, you can get that going. So a cheap boon cave. There's nothing stopping you.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, it's about being resourceful and visionary. I'm trying to understand, like, is someone nefarious secretly benefiting from this whole thing? Like, in order to understand it as a cult? I get the Alice Delish thing of it all, but, like, I wish her the very best. Are there any pernicious figures who are like secretly laughing all the way to the bank here?

[Daniel Kolitz]

I wouldn't say so. I mean, if anything, this is a kind of. To the extent that there's something like, I don't want to say hopeful here, but it is kind of taking place outside of systems of kind of financial exchange. I mean, to the extent that there is anyone taking advantage of anyone, I mean, there are a lot of sort of like guys that will pose as women and wank battle with other guys or feed them rather. So they're just feeding them porn. But sums exchange here are pretty small. And also I think a lot of the times the people involved aren't even being deluded and are paying for the humiliation of pretending to be deluded or hoodwinked. So it's happening on Discord. I mean, what's interesting is like, I think we ascribe a lot of social maladies to the algorithm, to Instagram, TikTok, short form video. This stuff can't exist on those platforms. Because you can't have porn on Instagram and TikTok. And so while there's definitely people like feeding performers or whatever to only fans primarily, this is taking place for better, for worse, mostly for worse in private telegram channels and on Discord, where people are sharing pirated content. I mean, if there are any victims, it's the people having their pornographic content stolen, frankly. But I don't think anyone is profiting to a large degree off of. Off of these guys. You know, it is. It's sort of a pure kind of cult, if it is indeed one.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, I'm curious, like, are there more or less culty ways of engaging with gooning or the Goons space, if you will? Like, what's kind of like the worst of the worst? And then, you know, if someone is like, goon curious, is there a way to be that healthily?

[Daniel Kolitz]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, goon curious, you know, a lot of people may be. Actually, a lot of people I spoke to were like, you know, I was engaged in a kind of gooning before I even knew what gooning was. You know, meaning like they were masturbating for like six hours at a time and using multiple screens and not even realizing that this had a name, that they were part of a community. I mean, there are plenty of people who are not even engaging with the community aspect of this who might still identify that way and who are just scrolling Twitter and scrolling the major porn aggregators and watching stuff. So maybe that's playing a little too loose with the terminology here, but you could, if you wanted to call just a run of the mill pornography addict to gooner. And then, I mean, at the most extreme ends, I mean, you know, I write in the article about someone encountering a Gooner who had blacked out their windows and was pissing on the floor and had the ambition of just jacking off continuously. I mean, there were people who. Drugs play a big role. I mean, sort of crystal meth binges and things of that nature and just going really hard on stimulants and porn. I mean, I met a guy named White Boy Jacker who had some very troubling opinions and ways of behaving in the world. He was part of something called the Black New World Order, which is its own troubling, quasi racist gooning cult of people who perceive, I guess, in their kind of erotic world, the idea is that white women are goddesses who should only have have sex with black men and white men should castrate them. I mean, it's a weird. It's like race play and a pretty troubling kind of thing and pretty racist, I think. But they will, to achieve their weird white supremacist mooning ends, will damage their own genitals, will sort of make it so that they cannot get an erection. I don't. Again, I don't know how many people are doing this. I was sent something called the beta male handbook, which was a fairly detailed 20 to 30 page guide that gets into some of the stuff, how you would kind of break into the black new world order slash beta male space. There's a lot of stuff going on here. I would say there's a lot of

[Reese Oliver]

incel overlap aside from some of these

[Iman Haririkiah]

more extreme racist and incelie subgroups within the gooning community. Can you talk about some of the more popular sub cults you encountered while reporting on this?

[Daniel Kolitz]

I mean, one of the biggest gooning communities is organized under the noodle dude umbrella. And Noodle dude is kind of a innovator in the porn music video space. He was the first one that sank. Linked the thrust to the music innovation that excites. Yeah. And people go crazy when this guy drops his like latest super cut and they are insanely involved. He spends days and days, hours and hours working on them. And so you'll have people congregated in his community and a lot of them will volunteer for him. You know, they'll pretty troublingly go through his content to make sure underage people aren't slipping through, which apparently they have in the past. And it's horrifying. They will help him sort of share his content, get the word out. But that's one notable one that comes from.

[Amanda Montell]

I don't know why I didn't ask this question earlier. It sounds like the masturbation part of this cult is kind of like neither here nor there for a lot of people. Like why aren't some of these gooners like ravers?

[Daniel Kolitz]

You know, it's much more convenient to do this stuff than it is to go out find a rave. I mean. Well also, I mean the same way that you can have foreplay and sort of human regular sexual encounters.

[Iman Haririkiah]

You could be edging.

[Daniel Kolitz]

You could be edging. Well, not even like touching yourself. Just like organizing your porn folder and like going through it and tagging everything like perfectly and making sure that everything like lines up and like, you know, folders within folders and like dming your friend being new clips for me, like that's, that's kind of foreplay to the solo act of masturbation.

[Iman Haririkiah]

It's a different kind of edging.

[Daniel Kolitz]

You're not even, like, touching yourself, you

[Amanda Montell]

know, so just like, porn is there. It's like people who, I don't know, like, collect old audio equipment.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Oh, for sure. It's like porn fandom.

[Amanda Montell]

It's porn fandom.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay. It's like nasty Comic Con.

[Reese Oliver]

Nasty comic. Comic Con. The gooniverse is just grody Comic Con. We figured it out.

[Amanda Montell]

Got it. Okay. Ew. So now we're gonna play a game.

[Reese Oliver]

Now we're gonna play a game. This is a game called culty or just cringe. It is a game we play often on this show. We are going to describe you a gooner behavior. You are going to tell us if said behavior is culty or just plain cringe, beginning with writing a love letter to your favorite porn star.

[Daniel Kolitz]

That is so hard. I mean, the question really should be, is it cringe, culty or culty and cringe? I'm gonna say cringe because guys have been doing this. That for 50 years. You know, that's been happening for a long time.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Spending 30% of your income on sex toys for solo use.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Cringe because you're alone. And that doesn't necessarily imply that you're part of some kind of culty jacking off community.

[Amanda Montell]

Astute. Next one. Having a masturbation schedule again, could just

[Daniel Kolitz]

show that you have great planning skills that you like a routine. And again, we're dealing with kind of a solo activity purely. So I'm going to say crunch.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, it's like Pomodoro method. It's very. It's just organized.

[Reese Oliver]

It's efficient. Especially when usually the goal is to spend as much time as possible. I see this as a healthier way to engage. Anyway, listening to audio porn in the grocery store with headphones.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Again, these are all kind of solos. I'm. I'm going to say that almost seems innocent to me. That seems nice. I think that's cringe. It does. Well, I mean, audio part. When you say audio part, I'm imagining like an art, like an ebook or something. I'm not imagining.

[Amanda Montell]

Totally.

[Daniel Kolitz]

I didn't think you were. Are you saying, like, the sound sounds of porn or are you saying someone listening to, like, a romantasy novel?

[Amanda Montell]

Tomato, tomatoes.

[Daniel Kolitz]

I would say, okay, if you're listening to the actual sounds of porn, I don't know if that's cringe or culty. That's insane. I don't think that anybody should be doing that. I don't think anyone should be upset.

[Iman Haririkiah]

I actually Think a lot of women are listening to audio erotica in the grocery store.

[Daniel Kolitz]

Yeah. And again, that seems to me. I mean, it's not something I've ever done, you know, but. But I. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, maybe there is. No, there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sticking to that.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Okay. Letting Reddit decide how many times a year you orgasm.

[Daniel Kolitz]

We're in cult territory. We're in cult.

[Amanda Montell]

We found it. Glad we agree. We're feeling around in the dark and we found it.

[Daniel Kolitz]

That's. That's cult territory for sure.

[Amanda Montell]

Last one. Turning your spare bedroom into your permanent goon cave.

[Daniel Kolitz]

You know, it would depend what your sideline and goon activities is. If you're big in the wank battling, if you are doing tributes to Alice Delish or whatever, I would say that could go either way. It would just depend on the kind of masturbator you happen to be. But also depends on the intensiveness of your cave. Because if you have tributes to individual performers, if you have sort of goon caps on the wall saying keep pumping, goon pig, something like that, I mean, you see stuff like that a lot, then we might be verging in cult territory. So it could go either way.

[Amanda Montell]

Daniel, thank you for taking this game as seriously as it is.

[Iman Haririkiah]

It is.

[Amanda Montell]

It was really informative and thank you

[Reese Oliver]

so much for joining us today. If our listeners want to follow you and join your cult, where can they do that?

[Daniel Kolitz]

I am Daniel Kolitz on both Instagram and Twitter. Actually Instagram Daniel Kolitz. So switching it up.

[Amanda Montell]

Can't forget the dot. Incredible. Thank you so much.

[Reese Oliver]

Thank you guys.

[Daniel Kolitz]

This is great.

[Iman Haririkiah]

I really wish I asked Kollitz if the DJ who creates the perfect drops for goon squads, if the point is they try to time finishing with the beat drop so that they all enter nirvana.

[Reese Oliver]

Well, the point is to never finish, right?

[Iman Haririkiah]

But eventually you do, isn't it?

[Reese Oliver]

No. The goon state is a state of edging bliss. You still have not yet come. The goal is to forever be in anticipation of this gratification. By denying yourself coming forever, you are forever in a state of pleasure and bliss. Is the thesis.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Wow. I this entire time thought that there was eventually one very, very intense orgasm.

[Reese Oliver]

I think it kind of varies. I think some Gooners, I think that is part of it for them. I think for some communities, eventually finishing is the goal.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, I thought you were saying community.

[Reese Oliver]

Oh, that's also good. Yeah, I think it depends on the gooner, but generally, to my understanding, the goon state is a just pre orgasmic state.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Wow. I really thought that Nirvana was tied to finally finishing, but guess not.

[Amanda Montell]

You know, I actually do understand how this is like meditation now.

[Iman Haririkiah]

It really kind of is. It's like an overly sexualized meditate. It's crazy to me. Men love to make things more complicated.

[Amanda Montell]

So true, so true. It's like an analogy that I learned from an allegory that my elementary school librarian read when I was in fourth grade that I bring up all the time is it's like trying to pop a bubble with an axe. You know, you don't need an axe. Just touch it very gently, the bubble will pop. So with that, I'm going to ask you both out of our three cult categories. Live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out. Which does the cult of gooning fall into?

[Iman Haririkiah]

I'm kind of torn between. For me, it's get the fuck out and watch your back. What about you guys?

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, I'm kind of teetering on that same line. I think this is not all of the gooniverse, but a big tenet of it that I discovered was the sexualization of clothed women. Like Akolitz was talking about lewds being a big part of it. And that is actually a pretty big part of the community is not just porn itself, but turning things that are not porn into porn. And I think that the implications of that for just like interacting with women. I think men already don't know how to interact with women. I think telling them to look at like influencers on TikTok that aren't even making porn and treating that like porn, I think is teaching men something very scary and dangerous. And for that reason I think I'm leaning towards get the fuck out. But the fact that so much of it is roleplay ultimately for a lot of people, that almost makes me think like, I don't know, maybe in the same way as kinks, this is a relatively healthier space to have that exist. But I still think I might lean get the fuck out.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Honestly, I think the over consumption of pornography and the over sexualization of women, especially real life women, without their consent, I think that even if right now some Gooners are behaving harmlessly, it's going to devolve into something really nefarious.

[Amanda Montell]

That's a really good point. Point.

[Iman Haririkiah]

For that reason, I'm going to get ahead of the curve and I'm going to say this is a get the fuck out while you still can.

[Amanda Montell]

I love that summation. I'm going to agree with that and just once again emphasize Ew.

[Reese Oliver]

Ew.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Ew. Wait. Final verdict.

[Reese Oliver]

Ew.

[Amanda Montell]

Ew Ew ew. Well, that's our show.

[Reese Oliver]

Thank you so much for listening.

[Iman Haririkiah]

Join us for a new cult next

[Amanda Montell]

week, but in the meantime, stay culty

[Reese Oliver]

but not too culty.

[Amanda Montell]

Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel, Reese Oliver and Iman Harirukiah. Our managing producer is Katy Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

[Reese Oliver]

It really helps the show a lot.

[Amanda Montell]

And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult Cult on Instagram for all the discourse. Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com sounds like a cult.

[Daniel Kolitz]

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[Daniel Kolitz]

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