Amanda Montell (3:18)
back, or a get the fuck out. Because the thing is, cultishes these days isn't a binary. There is a cult continuum. For example, I don't know, fanfiction or people who might just shop at Ikea a little bit too much usually don't end up in the territory of abuse, death and destruction. But some modern day groups, like conversion therapy believers or MAGA Youth influencers, can be far more dangerous and manipulative and indeed culty than they may appear. Today's topic, some may argue, is incredibly persuasive, perhaps even reliant on a particularly programmable audience. Culties Today we are slipping mind and body into the ever so questionable world of neuro linguistic programming. NLP for short. If you clicked on this episode with absolutely no idea what the heck we're talking about, that reflects well on you. It is understandable. This is a cult predicated on confusing its potential recruits and its loyalists. But it is deeply fascinating and more relevant to your life than you might think. And I am honored to have two extremely special expert guests joining me later today who are going to spill some flavor aid and help us understand. But first, a little background, a little context. What is nlp? Who invented this unfortunate acronym and why might it be considered a cult? NLP was born in the 1970s, of course, classic cult era, to a couple of creepy old little cult daddies named Richard Bandler and John Grinder, a writer and a linguist. They are still alive, by the way. They wrote this seminal book on the practice of neuro linguistic programming called the Structure of Magic. Not to be confused with the Age of Magical Overthinking, out now in paperback. According to its founders, Bandler and Grinder, NLP is a set of techniques that reprogram the way we behave, think and communicate. It was a kind of anti therapy invented to hack your brain by modeling the patterns of successful people and replicating them in every area of your life. Confidence, motivation, phobias, bad habits. NLP was like an early wellness bro invention promised as a kind of magic bullet to cure your whole life. Per Bandler and Grinder, it was also capable of healing your allergies, myopia, okay, Jesus. Curing the blind and the common cold. These sort of kitchen sink approach to healing claims are of course a classic cult recruitment tactic. Because if you can promise a solution to every type of problem a person might walk in with, no one ever really runs out of reasons to stay. Now before you assume this NLP stuff is just a bunch of malarkey that has nothing to do with you, let me be clear. Most of us have probably already engaged with NLP to some degree, whether we know it or not. Since the 1970s. It really embedded itself into a lot of different pockets of our culture. From the self help quotes that your aun might share on Facebook with a sunrise graphic to the optimize your life. I Woke up at 4am and now I'm unstoppable tiktoks for my manifestation girlies. NLP is the foundation underlying so many Pinterest vision boards, journaling practices, one of the many, many many reasons why corporate culture, the self help business and wellness all have this air of do the system perfectly and you will find success and happiness and hotness. And if you don't, well, it's not. The system's fault is because of the manipulative and myst nature of nlp, which has snuck its way into so many of these industries over the years. Since the 1970s, NLP has spread into life coaching, corporate training, education, law, medicine, and even psychotherapy. But the wild thing is, is that there is no universally agreed upon definition of nlp. There is no regulatory body, no standardized certification required to call yourself a practitioner or even an expert. And that's not an oversight. It's actually pretty structurally convenient. Because while we think of a cult as having these rigid hierarchies and one easily identifiable charismatic leader in some high control systems, the absence of a fixed standard means whoever is in charge of their own mini sub cult gets to start their own thing and move the goalposts whenever they want, NLP can mean whatever a practitioner needs it to mean for them specifically in that moment. Which can make it pretty impossible to challenge and tough to leave because you're never quite finished improving. Now it is probably no surprise for you to learn that NLP is largely considered a pseudoscience. Some therapists actually do incorporate it, but most scientists and medical professionals do not regard it as compatible with the scientific method. The only evidence in its favor is personal testimonials. Testimonials which are so compelling and even necessary for a lot of religious cult recruitment in particular and for NLP recruitment. Now. Speaking of science and religion, remember that book I mentioned that kind of helped start the whole thing, the Structure of Magic? I want to linger on that for a second because it is actually kind of a perfect encapsulation of NLP's entire energy. Take mystical thinking, dress it in scientific sounding language, neuro linguistic programming, and suddenly magic feels like a methodology. Conflating metaphysics with science is an age old trick in the cult handbook because it's how you get people to feel like they're being rational and enlightened at the same time. So brings us to the ultimate Is NLP just kind of a cheeky little harmless Griff, or is it really hurting people in a way that's a lot darker than the palette of those Pinterest vision boards? That's exactly what we're here to figure out. And to help us do it, we have two incredible guests joining us, Zoe Lascaz and Alice Hines, who are seasoned journalists and the host of a new podcast called Mind Games, an investigation that traces NLP from its origins at a New Age compound in California in the 70s to Fortune 500 boardrooms, the US army, and yes, even an infamous sex cult. I am such a fan of these two. I have been a longtime follower of Alice Heinz work. She has blown the lid off so many culty subcultures, from Core Power Yoga to the Twin Flames universe. She did so much important work on that particular cult. NLP is just the latest, and Zoe and Alice didn't just report on it from a safe distance, they tested the techniques on themselves. And in this interview they even tested them on me. Without further ado, here is our juicy, juicy discuss on the Cult of Neuro Linguistic Programming with Alison Zoe.
