B (2:26)

others feel like they're missing out.

C (2:28)

That's culty.

A (2:29)

This is Sounds Like a Cult. A show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Amanda Montel, author of books including the Age of Magical Overthinking, out now in paperback.

B (2:40)

And I'm Iman Reikiya, author of Female Fantasy the Most Famous Girl in the World and a hundred other girls.

A (2:46)

Every week on the show we discuss a different zeitgeisty group or guru that puts the cult in culture. From sparkly Sephora shoppers to to booktok romance girlies. To try and answer the big question,

B (2:59)

this group sounds like a cult. But is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A Live youe Life, A Watch your Back or a Get the Fuck Out.

A (3:19)

For some reason there was like kind of like a Renaissance Shakespeare, Shakespearean tone to your voice.

B (3:24)

I had to bring my performance up a notch because we're talking about the one, the only Renaissance Fairs today.

A (3:30)

And we deserve to because here's the thing. Renaissance Fairs might not fit the description of like a Manson level cult, but cultishness falls on a spectrum and sometimes the most destructive groups are not the ones that seem the cultiest on the outside and vice versa. So yeah, there are really fringy ritualistic aspects of Die Hard Horse Girls for example, but they are kind of harmless. And yet there are other groups that are so much more cultishly insidious than they might seem when you break it down. Even if they've been given a mainstream stamp of approval like mark Zuckerberg or Mr. Beast. This show is all about determining the differences among these various groups as we move through these ever culty times. And having a laugh if we may,

B (4:16)

along the way see some subcultural communities build whole alternate worlds that you can step into for a day. There are staged battles, there are archaic accents. There are juicy, juicy turkey legs and head to toe period garb. And this week we will be partying like it's 15.99 as we discuss the cult of Renaissance Fairs.

A (4:41)

Do do do do do do do. Wait, no. What is. Sounded like a lute to me.

B (4:52)

A modern obsession that stages and romanticizes the past with both theatrical gusto and irresistible whimsy. These events are definitely nerdy, they're ritualistic and they're kind of fringe. But do they ever resemble classic Cults in a more intense way.

A (5:10)

Ooh. That's when we're in a fun.

B (5:12)

No.

A (5:13)

Aman, what is your relationship to Renaissance Faires? Personally?

B (5:16)

So I have never been to a Renaissance Faire, even though I really deeply believe that I would enjoy them.

A (5:22)

That is shocking.

B (5:24)

Everyone says that to me, literally.

A (5:25)

Why?

B (5:26)

I am a huge fantasy reader. I'm a huge romantasy reader. I just love costumes, I love cosplay, I love everything that makes up a Renaissance Faire. My sister has been, my husband has been, my friends have been. But for some reason, I have always just had a conflict and I haven't made it to one.

A (5:43)

Your jousters missing one another in the night?

B (5:44)

No. And like, nobody loves to verbally joust as much as me, so I'm sure a physical joust would take me to the next level.

A (5:53)

Wow, that's gorgeous.

B (5:54)

What about you, Amanda?

A (5:55)

I have been me to a Renaissance Fair. I will never forget my very first Renaissance fair experience. I was 15 years old. I wore heels, which was a mistake because the ground is grass.

B (6:08)

Grassy knolls.

A (6:09)

Yeah. So many grassy knolls. I threw axes. I went to a petting zoo. I ate a big pickle. And my life was never the same. I definitely. Well, we'll talk about this later when we experience a gorgeous little cameo from some very special guests. But I do think the Renaissance fair kind of like scrambles multiple European periods of yore. It's not like strictly Renaissance. But regardless, I like you love the general fairy tale vibes that these general time periods inspired. And a Renaissance Faire is a way to experience that in real life. I have gone probably half a dozen times throughout my life. I love to dress up. I love a corset. You know, I love shopping and eating funnel cake and whatever. Like, it's just a great way to spend day. But I know more about Renaissance Faire culture from the performer side than I should because one of my very best friends, Amanda Kaur, it's very interesting having a best friend with your same name. We are the Amandas. Her first full time job out of college was being a full time pirate at a year round Renaissance fair.

B (7:15)

In Papa, perfect job does not exist.

A (7:18)

Wow. Okay.

B (7:20)

I love a bit and there's nothing I appreciate more than committing to said bit.

A (7:25)

Oh yeah, she had to speak in an Irish accent for like nine months. Oh my God.

B (7:29)

Did she lose her own sense of self?

C (7:31)

Yeah,

A (7:33)

but like in a good way. Ultimately there was kind of an expiration date. She had a contract. The Renaissance Fair didn't take place during the wintertime. So it wasn't gonna, like, suck her in for life, but it did suck her in for a time. And her stories of this time in her life when she lived on Shire. Okay, that's what it's called when you live and work on the Renaissance Fair campus on Shire.

B (7:58)

Okay, so we're definitely not going for historical accuracy.

C (8:01)

No, no.

A (8:02)

I mean, what is a historically accurate Shire? I don't know. Wait, I want to look that up.

B (8:06)

I think it's a word that was invented by Tolkien. I have to believe.

C (8:11)

Wow.

A (8:11)

Actually, you know what? No. A shire is a county, and it apparently derives from Old English. Oh.

B (8:17)

So it was just popularized by Tolkien.

A (8:20)

That derivative motherfuh. Just kidding. Exposed. He did. He did invent orcs, though. I mean, he invented so much. I'm obsessed with J.R.R.

B (8:28)

tolkien.

C (8:29)

And we.

A (8:29)

And we do have a Lord of the Ring, but it's coming. No. Oh, my God. The least amount of shade that could ever be thrown is definitely for JRR Tolkien.

B (8:38)

Yeah. Also, fans of Lord of the Rings and fans of Renaissance Fairs, like, might just be a circle. Yeah, it's me.

A (8:44)

It's me. I don't think. I don't even know if our regular listener appreciate how geeky I can be. Well, actually, I identify as a nerd, not a geek. But this is the segment of culture that kind of challenges that identity.

B (8:56)

I would also say, like, I identify as, like, I'm a hot nerd.

A (9:00)

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Tell. Speak on it.

B (9:02)

Yeah.

A (9:03)

So Amanda Core lived on Shire. It was kind of like being at adult theater camp 24 7. There's a lot of incestuousness. Renaissance fairs are, like, really horny places, the way that theater kids are horny. She, like, fell madly in love with this musician that did not live on Shire. He was just contracted to perform at the Renaissance Fair.

B (9:25)

And did he play Renaissance appropriate instrument?

A (9:28)

I don't remember, but probably, yeah. He probably played the fucking liar.

C (9:34)

The dream.

A (9:35)

He was like a jester. She showed me a picture of him. I was like this guy.

B (9:38)

And do they stay in character while living on the Shire?

A (9:41)

Not like in a Daniel Day Lewis way? Like, they do kind of clock sort of like in terms of the character, but not in terms of their relationships to each other. And she told me about the dynamics between the full time Renaissance performers and the regulars who were called friends of Faire faf. Yes, faf. These were devotees who would go to the Renaissance Faire almost every day. They had elaborate costumes. They would want to ingratiate Themselves with the performers, like, get close to them. It was almost this, like, fourth wall breaking, parasocial sort of situation. You weren't allowed to drink on the job unless a friend of fair, like, bought you a drink.

B (10:20)

Oh, wow, that's a loophole.

A (10:22)

Yeah, for sure, for sure. But yeah, your job at the Renaissance Faire, Amandacore told me, was like, all improv. And then there was like a formal show at some point, like as a pirate, but you would just flounce around the fair in character.

B (10:35)

Being a pirate.

A (10:36)

Yeah, being a pirate with an Irish accent.

B (10:38)

I mean, that sounds really fun.

A (10:39)

It sounds so fun. And I think overall it is fun. But wherever you have isolated compounds and really sort of like messy interpersonal dynamics, it can get culty in a negative way. There are some stories of some lawsuits coming, but before we get too deep into it, we probably should define a Renaissance Faire for those who clicked onto this episode completely.

B (11:05)

I don't. What are just here because you love us.

A (11:07)

Yeah, exactly. Who just click on whatever. So let's get into some Renaissance Fair lore, some history, to figure out the origin story of this particular cult. The modern Ren Fair actually began with the Renaissance Pleasure Fair, which was organized by a dynamic duo, Phyllis and Ron Patterson, as a $150 KPFK radio fundraiser in the year of our Lord, May 1973. This was in Los Angeles. And I actually have the been to the Renaissance Pleasure Fair. It still exists, but back then, Renaissance fair featured about 60 booths, drew 3,000 plus people, raised about $6,000, and returned the following year. So it is worth noting that the cult of Renaissance Fairs and the cult of nonprofits do kind of, yes, they do have some overlap. From the very beginning, the event was kind of a hit. From the beginning, it was in Los Angeles, meaning it attracted some celebrity visitors. Members of the Birds, Nancy Sinatra, Harrison Ford. I can't believe he's was there and is still alive and could still be there. In fact, Peter Fonda the doors and helped launch Mark Hamill's career. That's Luke Skywalker, right?

C (12:25)

Yeah.

A (12:25)

Okay. That's not a cult that I'm in. By the 1990s, fairs had really reached their cultural peak. They were bought and commercialized. And today there are currently over 200 medieval Renaissance fairs across the US which are kind of defined by, like, costumed performers and attendees who bring the general era to life through jousting in Shakespearean theater, period music, artisan stalls, games like axe throwing, themed food. They borrow from kind of a hodgepodge of outskirty nerdy geeky cultural touchstones. Viking stuff, pirate stuff, European settings, fantasy characters are cool. Elves, wizards, dragons. It's supposed to be immersive. It's supposed to be outdoor. It's supposed to be interactive. It's a whole time.

B (13:15)

I actually threw a fantasy themed birthday party last year and now I'm realizing that it could have passed as a renaissance.

A (13:22)

It was a renaissance fair.

B (13:22)

It was outside, it was indoors, but it was basically like my own personal Renaissance fair.

A (13:28)

Oh, I love that.

B (13:29)

Yeah. So consider me a cult leader.

A (13:32)

What kind of booths did you have?

B (13:33)

Thank you for asking. I had a fortune teller. We got a tarot reader.

C (13:37)

Oh my God.

B (13:37)

I had a magician, a traveling magician who did magic. I turn 30, I don't do this for every birthday. And then we also had potions instead of cocktails. Like I got little potion bottles.

A (13:48)

I love. Well, you know how much I love a themed party. And actually my. This isn't Renaissance. But again, the Renaissance fair does kind of seem more medieval than Renaissance at times. Anywho, I want to have not a fantasy, a period accurate, medieval themed 34th birthday party that we need to take super, super seriously.

C (14:07)

Yes.

B (14:07)

So seriously.

A (14:07)

I was looking up candlelight only. Yeah, candlelight only. Like sort of Arthur's round table style fe. I was looking up headdresses on Etsy

C (14:15)

that I could wear.

A (14:16)

And I want to do kind of like a mafia style interactive game.

B (14:19)

Oh my gosh.

A (14:21)

Surrounding the bubonic plate. Wow.

B (14:23)

Okay, so we're going to be getting into like the politics of the time.

A (14:26)

Oh, yes. And I'm going to be assigning my friends based on their personality. So I guess it's like casting a different feudal role.

B (14:32)

So it's also like a murder mystery.

A (14:34)

100%. 100%. So you can see why we're both ren faire oriented.

B (14:38)

Well, speaking of the politics of the medieval era.

A (14:42)

Indeed.

B (14:43)

Actually, there are some pretty clear political roots of the ren faire. Ren faire culture was really born of the same cultural tensions that gave us so many 60s and 70s era cult movements, from Woodstock to the Mansons.

A (14:56)

Wide range.

B (14:58)

In the 60s, Renaissance fairs blended countercultural anti modernism with avant garde theatricality. A deliberate rebuke to the 1950s Cold War conformity. They challenged belligerence, rigid gender roles, anti communist orthodoxy, and narrow ideas of the nuclear family.

A (15:16)

I'm getting that.

B (15:17)

Yeah. Fun fact, actually. Phyllis and Ron Patterson recruited blacklisted Hollywood artists, mostly left wing creatives, who used the fair as a rare outlet for their talents. And that original experiment helped clear space for later Countercultural gatherings and. Sounds like a cult episode. Topics. Coachella and Burning Man.

A (15:39)

That's beautiful.

C (15:40)

Wow.

A (15:41)

Fascinating. You know what? This actually makes sense. But one of the reasons why I think Coachella and Burning man, they feel

B (15:47)

less wholesome, it's because of, like, the elitism involved in them.

A (15:51)

Totally, totally. And I also think it's because of the drugs.

B (15:54)

And. The drugs?

A (15:55)

Yeah. Like, have I done shrooms at the Renaissance Fair? Yes, but is that, like, the vibe?

B (16:00)

Do you have to do shrooms at the Renaissance Fair?

A (16:02)

No, Exactly.

B (16:04)

Yeah. I think all three of them have a, like, release your inhibitions element to them. But that's kind of where.

A (16:12)

But maybe a Renaissance Fair attendee's inhibition is like, I'm shy in school. And, like, a Burning man attendee's inhibitions are like, I just bought a company and now I need to cosplay.

B (16:23)

I'd like to cosplay as someone who, like.

A (16:26)

Who, like, doesn't know what's.

B (16:28)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, in her book, well, Renaissance Fairs and the American Counterculture, professor of American Studies Rachel Lee Rubin describes the fairs as laboratories for social and creative experiment, fluid gender performance, new sexualities, alternative communal living, and drug use.

A (16:49)

Oh, I'm wrong. I'm so. Okay, maybe it's changed. But when I think of the Renaissance Fair, I think of, like, pints of beer and mead, and it's hearty. It's wholesome and hardy. It's wholesome and hearty.

B (17:02)

Yeah. And so here we get the quote by the freaks for the freaks, which, honestly, I love. I could see it being a little bit derogatory, just in the sense that I feel like people who go to Renaissance Fairs are actually really interested to explore their shared, like, solitary activities with

A (17:21)

maybe other said freaks.

B (17:23)

Like, they just want to meet more people who have their niche interests outside of, like, their Dungeons and Dragons community.

A (17:29)

Totally, totally, totally.

B (17:31)

But as Neil Steinberg, a columnist for the Chicago Sun Times, put it, where theme parks feel safe and sanitized, the Renaissance Faire can offer a whiff of the occult, a flash of danger, and a hint of the erotic.

C (17:45)

Yeah.

A (17:46)

Okay, so here's the thing. So far, it might be giving live your life, but as we mentioned, where there are these, like, isolated grassy knolls and outskirty cultures, power and even sexual abuse can percolate. Now, the wonderful sex educator Shan Boodram, who I actually just interviewed for my other podcast, Magical Overthinkers, for an episode on horniness. As she told me, sex is neutral. It can either go good or bad. And at The Renaissance Faire. That is very true. So something you wouldn't know as someone who's never been to a Renaissance Fair, is that people are wearing their sexuality on their bell sleeves. When I went to the Renaissance Fair this past year with my friend Amanda Core, the one who worked at the fair, I swear I got called like a dirty little wench within three minutes of stepping foot onto that knoll. And I loved it.

B (18:39)

You know, like archaic cat calling. Exactly, Exactly.

A (18:43)

I loved it. There is a particular drinks booth at this Renaissance Fair. The line, I swear to God, is like an hour long. And people queue up to have, like, a gorgeous, gorgeous beer wench pour beer down your gullet, stare you in the eyes as you drink and dirty talk you. She'll be like, yeah, suck it, you bad little thing. I know you want that. Oh, wow. It's like, such an experience.

B (19:08)

So we enter the kink community when we're.

A (19:10)

Yeah.

C (19:10)

Oh, yeah.

A (19:11)

No, honestly, yes. I was going to say the Renaissance Fair attendees kind of remind me of furries a little bit. I could see that. Which, as I've learned, like, not all furries engage in, like, actual sex acts. Yeah.

B (19:25)

Anyway.

A (19:26)

But these are horny places, but sometimes that can go south. So I think it's time to get into a few controversies. Times when the fun and games of that horny energy cross the line. Here's a concrete example. In 2018, an entertainment director and performer at the Minnesota Renaissance Festival named Carr Hagerman was accused of criminal sexual misconduct after allegedly sexually abusing a freelance photographer on festival grounds. Marianne Combs of Minnesota Public Radio News reported that the employee was sexually and physically assaulted by Hagerman until she lost consciousness. In 2021, the Minnesota Department of Human Rights reached a settlement with the Minnesota Ren Fair Production Company after finding the assault accusations credible. NPR News reported that additional civil charges were made by multiple female former workers who alleged years of abuse and harassment and very little help and support from the festival's management. One of the plaintiffs, Linda Claire Bear, said that Hagerman knew how to prey on vulnerable women, especially since he had control over their contracts with the festival. So, I mean, again, we said that this, like, reminds us of theater camp, of theater school, of theater kids. But that is an environment in which, again, like, sexual abuse, there can be

C (20:36)

a lot of abuse.

A (20:37)

Yeah. Not uncommon because. Yeah, it's like a vulnerable group of people who are sometimes mistreated and exploited because of their desire for belonging and their desire to want to operate in this less than mainstream space. There have been OSHA Violations and mistreatment of workers in certain Renaissance fairs. One particular scandal surrounds the Oregon Ren Faire that's held every weekend in June and welcomes more than 75,000 guests. But last year, among its visitors, the Ren Faire received inspectors from the Oregon Occupational Safety and Health osha, and what they found was less than magical. OSHA officials actually found about half a dozen safety violations, and the fair was fined over $4,000. And this OSHA visit was actually result of an operation by a whistleblower group, the People's Fair Council, which has organized campaigns against the Oregon and Washington Renaissance Fairs. The People's Fair Council claimed that both Ren Faires have been operating with unsafe working conditions and have mistreated workers and volunteers.

B (21:40)

In 2025, Rachel Slaslo of Willamette Week reported that two female workers, Christina Bohmeyer and Care Wood, were injured while working at the 2024 Oregon Ren Fair. Despite being diagnosed with concussions after the workplace injuries, Bohmeyer and Wood were terminated from their jobs soon after these incidents. In 2025, Natalie Graham of Investigative west reported that the nonprofit sector of the Oregon and Washington Ren Fairs, the Washington Renaissance Arts and Education Society, had a net revenue of 1.9 million in the last three years, according to tax records. So despite the huge earnings, Shawna Casey of the People's Fair Council alleges that the workers aren't compensated or treated well. Meanwhile, two board members of W R A E S earned six figure salaries in 2023 and a joint $300,000 consulting fee.

A (22:38)

Oh, wow. But now I read 6 of your salary, and I'm like, that's.

B (22:43)

You're like, wait a sec. Wait a second.

A (22:46)

Not much money anymore anyway. Yeah. I think this is where you can see the sort of suspicious nonprofit. You know how it's so common for nonprofit workers to be exploited with the excuse being like, we're doing this for the mission. You know, it's like this martyry thing.

B (23:05)

This is a family.

A (23:06)

Exactly. Exactly.

B (23:07)

This is a culture, like experience.

A (23:09)

You can see that really showing up here. So that kind of doesn't surprise me. Yeah.

B (23:14)

And I also could see if being overly flirtatious is a part of Ren Faire culture, like an internal movement to protect Ren Faire culture and not allow the accusations to then take that element away. But oftentimes, like, lines will get so incredibly blurred at events like these because either workers or visitors will assume consent based on consent given in, like, previous interactions. And that leads to a lot of harassment.

A (23:43)

Yeah. And I actually think that maybe the fantasy environment. There are so many good things about it, but to certain pernicious figures, it could pave the way for like plausible deniability. Like I'm just doing this through my character. Or like, yeah, it wasn't me. So yeah, the good is really good of Renaissance Fairs. The bad is really bad. But before we can get into our verdict, we wanted to share with you listeners a sort of special treat. The two co hosts of the award winning and chart leading true crime podcast Morbid Elena Urquhart and Ash Kelly are here to chime in on the topic of Renaissance Fairs, to play a little game and to help us with our verdict. So stick around for this special little morsel of Renaissance candy. This podcast is proudly brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform to help entrepreneurs stand out and succeed online. So whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it super easy to construct a gorgeous website to sell anything from products to content to even your valuable time. I am a longtime Squarespace user. User building sounds like a cult.com was incredibly easy and updating it is easy too. I actually just did so because Sounds like a cult just won a webbing and I wanted to add it to our bio. I happen to think our website looks very pro despite my lack of technical skills, and that is thanks to Squarespace's glorious features including their Design Intelligence which combines two decades of industry leading design expertise with cutting edge AI technology to help you unlock your unbreakable creativity. Squarespace Payments also makes it incredibly easy to sell anything on a Squarespace website. Onboarding is fast and simple, easy peasy lemon squeezy. And you can give your customers multiple ways of paying so that the experience is effortless on their side too. I also love that using Squarespace you can set up a charitable fundraiser managing all your donors in one place. There's honestly nothing you can't do with a website using Squarespace. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Culties. I simply cannot overstate how excited I am that this podcast is brought to you by article. I am in my home decor era and article has been one of my long time favorite furniture brands. So when I found out that they wanted to sponsor this podcast I went and shopped till I dropped using my fancy little discount. And if you listen to the end of this ad I will tell you how you can get a fancy little discount with Article two. So my back patio at my house has been like empty and sad for months. I went on article and I got the most gorgeous L shaped outdoor couch, a beautiful high quality coffee table. I went ham on plants, little accessories and I'm telling you it looks like a five star hotel out there. Now that is how gorgeous Article's pieces are and they're so thoughtfully curated in terms of design and quality that they can really suit any style. Whether you're into the mid century modern stuff or you like your scandi inspired style, Article has got stuff for you. The quality is impeccable, the shipping is lightning fast, the customer service is incredible. They've also got a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Culties help your yourself by shopping for Article decor. Especially because Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more. To claim visit article.com cult and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com cult for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Today we are joined by two very very famous people. They host the smash hit podcast Morbid. Welcome to Sounds like a Cult God.

C (27:29)

Thank you. We are very excited to be here and be des very famous people. That was cool.

A (27:36)

Well, you deserve it. Could you perfect, perfect individuals introduce yourself and your podcast to the listeners who dare not know? Yes.

C (27:44)

I'm Ash, this is Big Red Elena and our podcast is Morbid. We are on Sirius xm so we're family now. You guys. Yeah.

A (27:52)

Whoa.

B (27:53)

Cousins.

C (27:53)

Culty and Morbid covers like all kinds of weird stuff. Weird history, true crime, paranormal, anything morbid under the Morbid umbrella we like to grab.

A (28:03)

I love the word morbid. It's a lifesty. Absolutely. Sexual orientation. It's a vibe. So we're here to talk about Renaissance Fairs which was a subject that you two felt passionate about discussing. Could you talk about your relationship to Renaissance fairs? Have you ever been to one? And if so can you give us the deets of the most Cult esque experience you ever had? For better and for worse. I love a Renaissance Fair moment. The last time I went to a

C (28:28)

Renaissance fair I was probably like 10 or 11 and I went with my mom and I will remember the turkey legs for the rest of my life. Yeah. Yes.

A (28:35)

That's what I feel the most passionate

C (28:37)

about is the turkey legs. I love the fantasy of it all. We were just talking about how we want to go to another one actually like very soon and even like take the kids and stuff. It would be fun. But I've always loved fantasy. I've always loved people that, like, unabashedly are into their passions, no matter how everyone else thinks about it. And so I feel like it's such a cool place that you can just be one with fantasy and not be judged about it.

B (28:59)

No, absolutely. And I think that a lot of people go to Ren Faires as a form of escapism. But what, in your opinion, is the cultiest element of the Ren Faire escape?

C (29:11)

I think definitely the way that it becomes like a traveling family almost, where it's like a lot of the same people are working there all the time. A lot of the same people go there. It becomes like a pilgrimage. Everybody's, like, committed to their character and their role that they play in the cult fair. It's a little ritualistic, but, like, not in a bad way, you know, to be determined. You said we haven't got there yet.

B (29:34)

We're here to get to the bottom of just that.

A (29:36)

Okay, so you mentioned, you know, you're seeing a. Of the same characters from one Ren Faire to another. They have this sort of peripatetic presence. They are, you know, they engage in a lot of world building, maybe even delusion. But who do you think is cultier? The entertainers who work at the Renaissance fairs or the fair goers, otherwise known as friends of Faire.

C (30:01)

Oh, fair. I didn't even know that. I didn't either. That's a hard one. I could see that, honestly, going both ways. Because the fair goers, it's like you're returning year after year, paying money to return. That's culty. That's true. They get you addicted to the food, much like myself. Absolutely. But then you flip that on its head and you have the fairer people who work there, and you take that one. I feel like the people who work there, they are so committed to these characters and so committed to the story, which is part of it, but they, like, really engage in that story. So I feel like it's almost like a double life kind of situation, which could be considered fairly culty. It's kind of like shared cultage. Yeah.

B (30:40)

I wonder if it's like the cult of summer camp, where if you love camp so much, you will return as a camp counselor.

C (30:47)

Yes. That's so similar to Pipeline.

A (30:51)

Yeah.

C (30:52)

The Pipeline is for real. Yeah.

B (30:54)

A friend affair to entertainer.

C (30:56)

Oh, yeah. I could see that.

A (30:57)

Yes. Although, I mean, I think that oftentimes the relationship between the people who work there and the people who. Who frequent can get sort of loosey goosey and culty in a way that isn't always so very gorgeous. For example, we did a cult of strip clubs episode last year, and there are certain strip club regulars who start to think that the dancers on stage are in love with them. And similar dynamics sometimes unfold at the Renaissance Fair.

B (31:32)

That's true. You know, the lines begin to blur between performance and real life. The real life activity. Yeah, you guys already mentioned a couple of these, but what other rituals and practices and common phrases did you pick up on at your visits to the Ren faires?

C (31:49)

Well, it's the whole thing that. It's like a language. They have a specific language that they go by. You know, like the huzzahs and the.

A (31:56)

They love a huzzah moment.

C (31:57)

The, you know, what is it? I think merry meet when you get there. Merry part y instead of like, peace out, Mary part, Mary part. And I think they're held to pretty strict standards for sticking to that language. Yeah. Like not working character. Like, you can't just be like, oh my God, what's up? You'll get in trouble for that. Yeah. And a lot of people who go to the fairs also adhere to it.

A (32:18)

They slip into characters.

C (32:20)

Yeah, everybody kind of slips into this world.

A (32:22)

Yeah. The language piece is very compelling. Everybody loves to pick up on a secret lingo. It's like when you learn pig Latin on the playground when you're a kid or like, I don't know if you have this experience. Iman when you first started working in digital media and there are so many, like, special little acronyms and like clicky phrases. I mean, it's just such an easy, invisible, and seemingly commitment free way of like sucking someone into a subculture and

B (32:48)

making others feel like they're missing out.

C (32:50)

Yeah. On the experience, which is hard. And the fact that they tour together, like these people, like, tour together, which. That's culty.

A (32:57)

It does reflect the sort of like classic cult energy of Deadheads or even mlmers who like, go wherever, you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's giving. It's Avon calling. It's the Renaissance Fair calling. Okay, so can you talk a little bit more about like the turkey leg situation of it all? Like, I mean, people underestimate that. Like, a great reason to join a cult is because, like, you just want free snacks. Like, my dad grew up in a cult called Synanon. Well, starting when he was 14 and before that he lived below the poverty line. And sorry, this is like, dark, but this is part of the lore. He didn't always have access to. Access to nutritious meals. But at the cult, there was always peanut butter and bread, like, out for everybody. And so, like, in a way, you know, that was kind of, like a positive thing. Food is obviously deeply tied to culture, whether we're talking about, like, cults or not. How do you think, like, the cuisine at the Renaissance Fair contributes to its culty nature?

C (33:59)

Oh, I think it definitely does. It definitely does. Because one, it's getting you into the whole atmosphere.

A (34:04)

Like.

C (34:04)

Like, it's specifically themed to be like, oh, you're in the old times. It makes you kind of start believing it. It's very Disney adjacent in that way, where, like, the amount of people who go to Disney and are, like, going to Epcot to eat around the world or, like, going to Disney to get these, like, crazy treats that you can only get there. You know, it's like the same kind of thing. You're like, writing, oh, my God, the cheeseburger spring rolls, honey. See, this is why I would join a cult, because I am a little

A (34:28)

bit of a Disney adult and I'm

C (34:30)

still dreaming about those turkey legs from when I was 10. So give me some good food and I'll join your cult. But the food is expensive.

A (34:35)

I. That's the weird thing, but I do

C (34:37)

wonder if it is for the workers. It's a little culty in the way that, like, people will spend that extra money to get that unique experience of that food. Like, that I can only get there and will put me in this place where I feel like I'm in this time period with this people. And they have, like, that, like, mead. So they're, like, plying you with alcohol.

A (34:55)

And people get at the Ren Fair because people were so drunk back in the day that they're like, you know what?

C (35:01)

Let's just balls to the wall here. Be merry.

A (35:03)

It's so true. I think obviously this comes in many shapes and forms, but there has been a mass embrace in recent years of nostalgia, for better and for worse. Like, on one side, you have trad wives who are romanticizing a time before women have right had rights. And then you have, like, really intense homesteaders who. Who want to go back to, like, a little House on the Prairie vibe because a time before iPhones and digital technology felt simpler and more grounding. And then there are, like, so many nostalgic movie and TV reboots.

B (35:34)

Now you have the yearning for 2016.

A (35:36)

Yeah. And now today. Oh, my God. Exactly today. What is that?

C (35:40)

Where did that come from?

B (35:41)

It's nostalgia for A time when parties were fun.

A (35:43)

Okay. And so I think that nostalgia and, like, a longing for the illusion of a simpler time, of simplicity. Yes. Is part of why Renaissance fairs have popped back up in the Zeitgeist, you know?

C (35:58)

Yeah, I can definitely see that for sure.

B (36:00)

And I think another reason that they've popped up in the Zeitgeist is because of the rising popularity of Romantasy and Romantasy as a popular book genre, which, of course, does connect romance and Romantasy. How do you think that the community of Romantasy readers overlaps and intersects with Ren faire culture?

C (36:20)

The middle of that Venn diagram is huge, and I think we're going to see it become more overlapped since Romantasy is exploding so much right now. I feel like it's always been there, but I feel like, like, book talk really exploded recently. And I think a lot, especially with, like, the way the world is right now. I think everybody's looking for that, like, escape into a fairy realm and, like, meet a hot fairy king and, like, have him fight somebody for you. Like, I think everybody's looking for that right now, and I think it gives people who are into Romantasy or, like, fantasy. This is like, being able to kind of live in that place. It's like reality. Yeah, but around people who share your interests and aren't sitting there and being like, that's stupid. That you're into a fairy tale. Like, yeah, check out my wings. Like, we're the same person. Like, this is awesome. Marry me. Yeah. So I think it's a lot of, like, being who you are without judgment, which is cool. It's a very cool aspect of it. Yeah.

A (37:10)

Yeah. And I feel like Renaissance fairs, too, like, on the positive side, they don't have the sort of, like, commercial vibe that, say, Disney adults do, or even that, like, swifties do. And so there's something, like, fringier and in a way, more wholesome about it, but at the same time, more susceptible to mockery, maybe, which feels culty. And I'm curious, too. It's like we're talking about fairy tales. Obviously, during the European Renaissance, dragons didn't exist, but it's like, there are fun sides of kind of rewriting history as if there were dragons. And there are potential downsides. Like, there are groups in the world today, some of them might be political, that like to make up things about how society once was in order to convince everyone that we should return to a time when dragons saved America or whatever the fuck. And so I do have A kind of light skepticism of groups that romanticize and fictionalize a history that never existed. I'm just curious if there's a negative side effect of that with Red and Fairs. On the surface, it does really seem like it.

C (38:24)

That makes a lot of sense, what you're saying, because it's true that when you really look at this time period that they're larping from, it wasn't great for everyone. Like, everyone's not killing it in that time period. No, definitely not.

A (38:36)

Yeah. Like, everyone was like, a fucking feudal serf. And. Well, actually, the Renaissance was technically after the fall of feudalism, but there's a lot of blending of eras and also, like, gender roles.

B (38:47)

Oh, yeah.

A (38:47)

Like, there was no. No medicine.

C (38:50)

Yeah.

B (38:50)

No dental care.

A (38:53)

Speaking of, like, weaponizing nostalgia, there was some viral article that went around, like, five or six years ago that said something like, a medieval peasant had more time off than, like, the average contemporary worker. And for my last book, I ended up speaking with a medieval historian named Eleanor Jenega. She was really cool. Who was like. That technically might have been true because there were, like, so many more religious holidays in the. I'm talking about the Middle Ages, not the Renaissance, whatever. For the purposes of the Renaissance Fair, it's kind of a. The same. But if you're a fucking medieval serf, you have to plow the soil, and it takes a year to make bread, and you're not actually getting that much time off.

C (39:31)

You're not.

B (39:31)

You can't really compare the 9 to 5 to that of a medieval serf.

C (39:35)

But I feel like with ren faires, too, it has so much magical aspects to it. Like, people are fairies. They do these, like, certain days where it's, like, dark fairy tale coded, you know what I mean? So I feel like they lean so far into that part of it that, I don't know, maybe some of them are, like, leaning too hard into, like, historical. But I think for the most part, they lean like, we're fantasy. This is make believe. We're magical. We just happen to be, you know, dressing up as, like, kings and wenches. Yeah. Fairies, for sure.

A (40:03)

And there's so much humor at the ren faire. Like, when I went this past year, there was, like, a wench comedy show. Really horny show. My God. But it was kind of, like, reversing the gender expectations because, like, the horny people on stage were these, like, sort of Rubenesque gals in the their 40s and 50s who were, like, cheekily preying on strapping men in the audience. And I was like, hear, hear. And I like, raised my mead.

B (40:28)

Yeah. I think for the most part the Ren Faire exists to allow people to bring more whimsy into their lives, not necessarily to interrogate the past. Like, I would go as far as to say many people couldn't actually tell you that much accurate stuff about the Renaissance period.

C (40:43)

The Renaissance, Yeah.

A (40:45)

No, I actually think that the weaponization of nostalgia by Disney is more culturally threatening than the Renaissance Faire.

C (40:54)

Totally. Because it's so commercially linked.

A (40:58)

And like some cultural commentators have said that the construction of Disneyland in Southern California was to kind of give like lily white suburbanites a respite away from like the civil rights movement in the 1950s. And so sort of dipping back into times that seemed better than the present does have downsides. But I feel like comparatively there are other culty groups that we've discussed on the show that the risks feel more intense than Renaissance. For sure. Did you know there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door? And they found a way to combine THC with carefully selecting connected functional ingredients to create gummies, baked goods and flour for whatever type of buzz you'd want. I'm talking about mood.com. they have an incredible line of cannabis gummies. And you can get 20% off your first order@mood.com with promo code Cult. Make sure to use that promo Code Cult so that they know we sent you forget one size fits all supplements that only get you high. Not Mood's functional gummies are optimized to kick in in as little as 15 minutes and take you to the mood you're looking for. For example, they've got these Sleepy Time advanced gummies, which are so good for a mind soothing calm each night. That's one of their current bestsellers. They've also got these Mind Magic gummies for focused deep work and enhanced creativity. Very interesting to me. Listen, you can find gummies to just get you high pretty much anywhere these days. But most Mood's functional gummies combine premium federally legal THC with targeted botanicals to help you get into the perfect mood, usually in as little as 15 minutes. Best of all, not only is every Mood product backed by a 100 day satisfaction guarantee, but as I mentioned, listeners get 20% off their first order with Code Cult. So head to mood.com, find your functional gummy that matches exactly what you're looking for, and let Mood help you discover your perfect mood. And don't forget to use promo Code Cult when you check out to save 20% on your first order. Try it today@mood.com culties I can't lie to you. I am a glasses wearer, but my glasses are due for a replacement. But even in 2026, the whole process of replacing your glasses can feel like quite the to do. You got to schedule your appointment, pay a fortune, and then wait. But guess what? Zenni Optical is here to fix all that. Zenni is an online eyewear shop. Shop prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light glasses, all starting at under $30. Just go to zenni.com, pick out a frame, upload your prescription, and they ship it to Yadua. No appointment, no store, no upsell at the counter. When you're not paying literal hundreds of dollars for glasses, suddenly shopping for glasses becomes fun. Zenni has over 150,000 five star reviews. And if you've never bought glasses online before, Zenni has an online virtual trial on so you can see exactly how your face will look in those frames. Genuinely Take it from me, Zenni makes this whole process feel so much less stressful, so much more fun, so much more stylish. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zenni.com podcast and use code podcast15 for 15 off your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I.com podcast promo code podcast15. Okay, we want to play a game with you. It's a simple would you rather cult of Renaissance Fairs edition. So we're going to present to you a sequence of scenarios that compare something from the cult of the Renaissance Fairs to another cult that we've discussed on. Sounds like a cult in the past. And you'll just have to answer allegedly from your opinion, which you'd rather do.

C (44:53)

Love. I'm for it.

A (44:55)

Okay. Would you. Would you rather have to become a friend of Faire for a year? So that means you're kind of like going to the Renaissance fair every day or live as a Mormon sister wife for a month.

C (45:08)

Oh, the fair every day. Friend of fair. Yeah, Fair friend of fair.

A (45:12)

I'll go right now.

C (45:13)

Let's go. I'm ready.

B (45:15)

They can smell the turkey legs.

A (45:17)

Prudent. Yeah. And they don't even have to make them themselves.

C (45:20)

Bonus.

B (45:21)

Speaking of of turkey legs, would you rather eat nothing but Ikea food court meals for a week or nothing but Ren Fair food for a week?

C (45:29)

Oh, Ren Fair food. It's so hearty. It is so hearty.

A (45:34)

I love potatoes. Mmm.

C (45:36)

I know.

A (45:36)

God. Cult of potatoes. Would you rather make the next year's worth of choices according to the prophecies of an Etsy Witch or a Ren Faire fortune teller? Etsy Witch.

C (45:49)

Yeah, I think I might go with Etsy Witch.

A (45:50)

Yeah, tell me about that. I believe in them.

C (45:53)

I'm so interested in them. I may or may not have hired

A (45:56)

one at a time.

B (46:00)

Would you rather be a part of a WWE match for 10 minutes or compete in a 10 person joust? But it lasts all day.

C (46:09)

Ooh, I'll take the 10 minutes. I could make it through a joust all day. Yeah. I got stamina. There are a few things that I

A (46:17)

want to do all day.

C (46:18)

I think if I read the news and then you sent me into that joust all day, I could get out. Yeah, that's true. I could make it.

B (46:25)

Yeah.

A (46:25)

It's like a rage room.

C (46:26)

It is. Give me a joust, I'll stop.

A (46:29)

It's a period rage room. Okay, one final question for you, and it is the most important question of every. Sounds like a cult episode. Out of our three cult categories, a Live youe Life, a Watch your Back, and a Get the fuck out, which do you think think the cult of Renaissance Fairs falls into?

C (46:48)

Oh, one, two, three. Live your life. Yeah. Live your life. You went. You went further than the three. I was just ready.

A (46:53)

Yeah.

C (46:53)

Live your life. Yeah. Because I don't see any harm coming from it yet. I should say. I haven't seen it yet. We'll keep our eyes peeled. And I think it just allows people to kind of, like we said, like escape, but in like a way that's really not hurting anybody or hurting themselves. Yeah. And it lets them kind of like get a little for themselves out there there without judgment.

A (47:12)

I think I have to agree. It's very much giving Comic Con energy.

B (47:15)

Yep. It's cosplay.

A (47:16)

It's cosplay. And again, like when I think about the worst case scenarios, like people getting too lost in the fantasy or people thinking that the relationships that they're forming with the performers are real and there's some exploitation that we talked about in the intro of this episode. Hahaha. It's not to be discounted, but we do sort of grade our clothes cults on a curve at this show and I think it's giving more Live youe Life.

B (47:43)

I totally agree. I think it's a live your life mostly because people go to Renaissance Fairs for two big reasons. One, to live out of fantasy and two, to connect with community. Yeah. And I think that there is something Genuine in that even if sometimes people can cross the line.

A (48:01)

Yeah, for sure. I also think it's interesting that you can can dip in and out of a Renaissance Fair easily. Like, whether or not you can participate casually is a question to ask when evaluating how healthy a cult is. And it's not like you have to be a devoted friend of Faire as an attendee or else you won't be accepted. You know, like, it feels like a fairly accepting place.

B (48:24)

That's very funny.

C (48:25)

And I feel like Comic Con with, like, cosplaying. It's, like, super respectable how much they put into their characters too. That's true. Like the outfits and stuff. Like, that's like art. That's a cool part of it.

A (48:36)

I will say part of me is resistant to fully, fully categorize Renaissance Fairs as a live your life, considering the OSHA violations and allegations of sexual misconduct and assault that we discussed earlier in the episode. But at the same time, I don't know, do we want those things to overshadow all the beauty that this community gives people? Maybe it is a very, very, ever so slightly light, light, light, light. Watch your back. If you're really that deep in, I

B (49:01)

think that attendee who might catch a Ren Faire every so often and do it for the fully immersive escapism, then I think you can live your life. But if you are someone who wants to become a part of this community, go to the fair every year or every time it's in your city or even work there. I think that you probably do need to watch your back because there have been enough accusations and allegations that this is clearly a problem that's permeating their culture.

A (49:34)

Totally.

C (49:35)

Yeah.

A (49:35)

I think if we called theater kids a watcher back, maybe we have to call Renaissance Fair.

B (49:40)

Oh, my God. I think it's got to be a live your life with a, like, wing

A (49:44)

of watch your back wing. Watch your back. I support that. Now, we do want to mention that if any listeners have counterarguments or stories that completely undo our our verdict or evaluation, please feel free to share them respectfully in the comments on Spotify or on our Instagram. We absolutely love hearing from you listeners.

B (50:09)

If people want to follow you guys and join your cult, where can they do that?

C (50:13)

Oh, if you want to join our cult, you can listen to us wherever you listen to podcasts, we're on Sirius XM. We're really mostly on Instagram @morbidpodcast. Incredible.

A (50:23)

And for listeners who are interested in cults, want to, like, start out on an episode of your show. Which episode do you think would appeal to them?

C (50:30)

Ooh, we have a Blackburn cult. It's a mini morbid, so it's a great place to step in. It's one of our earliest episodes, but it's like a mother daughter duo cult. And they were sometimes sisters. There's mummies, there's sketchy characters from the 1920s. It's great.

B (50:44)

Yeah.

A (50:45)

Oh my God. Juicy, Weird.

B (50:47)

That sounds perfect.

A (50:48)

Big Red, you want to plug your butt?

C (50:50)

I would love to. Big Red wrote a book. I have a series of books, the Dr. Ed Muller series. But my third one is going to be out August 11th. It's called the Butcher Legacy. You can pre order it now@butcherlegacy.com you can get it anywhere you feel like you want to get the book. Go get it. Go pre order it. Indie bookstores are the best.

A (51:07)

Hell yeah. Love that. Well, that's our show.

B (51:11)

Thanks so much for listening.

A (51:13)

Stick around for a new cult next

B (51:14)

week and in the meantime, stay culty

A (51:18)

but not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montel and hosted by Amanda Montel and Iman Haririkiah. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. Additional research for this episode by Lexi Perry. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse. Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free@patreon.com sounds like a Cult Foreign.

C (52:22)

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A (52:53)

Hey mama, thanks for making all my favorite recipes.

B (52:56)

Hi Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice.

A (52:59)

Hi Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone.

B (53:03)

Hey Mom.

C (53:03)

Happy Mother's Day.

A (53:05)

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