The Cult of Theater Camp

Summary

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Sounds Like A Cult – “The Cult of Theater Camp” (June 9, 2026)

Hosts: Amanda Montell, Chelsea Charles, Reese Oliver
Guests: Anna Camp (actor), Dara Lane (writer & podcaster)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the world of theater camps, examining how these beloved institutions for theater-loving kids can possess traits reminiscent of cults. Drawing on the hosts’ and guests’ personal experiences as former theater kids, plus reviews from famous programs like Stage Door Manor, the show explores the allure, rituals, power dynamics, and potential harms within theater camp culture, ultimately asking: Is theater camp just a hyperactive artsy summer experience, or is it a little bit culty?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Theater Camp? The “Cult” Recipe (03:54–05:41)

• Theater camp is uniquely positioned to be “culty” due to the combination of:

  • Vulnerable, hopeful, creative kids, often ostracized elsewhere
  • Intensive bonding in an isolated, parent-free environment
  • A mission of collective creation that becomes all-consuming

• Quote:
  “Put them on an isolated compound where there are no parents… gallivanting while singing ‘Spring Awakening’... Now you’ve really got the recipe for a cult.”
  — Amanda Montel (05:07)

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2. Personal Histories with Theater Camp (06:33–09:54)

• Dara: Grew up in community theater and theater camp, both as a camper and counselor; describes it as “stamped” on her entire adolescence.
• Anna: Attended South Carolina’s Governor’s School for the Arts and North Carolina School of the Arts, living fully in the theater camp/nerd world.
• Amanda: Went to theater camp from 8–13, describing it as her “world... my father, my son, my Holy Ghost, my spirit. Like, it was everything.” (08:58)

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3. The Culty Vibes: Hierarchies, Drama, & Abuse (10:48–18:49)

• Toxic Hierarchies: Rankings among kids, favoritism from adults, power held by the artistic director, parents getting involved in politics (“secret meetings in the back of… you didn’t cast my kid” – 11:45).
• Abuse as Privilege: Anna recounts being physically slapped by a teacher as a “rite of passage” — then feeling special for it (15:21–16:50):
  • “They make their acolytes feel like abuse is actually a privilege because you’re on the inside of this, like, elite community.” (Amanda Montel, 16:51)
• Ritual Humiliation & Adult-Like Pressure: The kids are treated (and treat themselves) as mini-adults, required to perform extreme emotional openness and handle adult subjects.

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4. Implicit Promises, Trauma Bonding, and Adultification (20:45–27:48)

• The camp promises community, creative fulfillment, and transcendence. Yet:

  • “You can bear it all and trauma bond and dump with this group of people that forces you to kind of build community.” — Chelsea Charles (23:09)
  • Drama, sexual tension, and blurred age boundaries run rampant.

• Notable Moment:
  Dara describes trying “Meisner” techniques on 12-year-olds, making a child cry by accident — an example of inappropriate adult methodologies being applied to children (26:05–27:17).

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5. Rituals & Power Dynamics (28:16–33:26)

• Core Dogmas: Always be “for the group,” but that reduces ultimately to being for the artistic director. Ambition and vulnerability are currency.
  • “Trauma and vulnerability becomes a kind of currency.” — Amanda Montel (31:29)
• Oversharing and Peer Surveillance: Kids share trauma in group circles; withholding makes one “not for the group.”
  • Anna: It’s “very similar to Scientology…, we all had information on one another” (31:55).

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6. Inappropriate Boundaries, Sexual Dynamics, & The Absence of Supervision (44:15–49:51)

• Sleepaway environments, rituals like “Nightclub Night,” and counselors’ laissez-faire attitudes led to age-inappropriate scenarios and kids learning about sexuality in confusing contexts.
  • Amanda’s story about misunderstanding “Nightclub Night” as cabaret and feeling out of place in a leotard when other 11-year-olds wore “Paris Hilton ass miniskirts.” (45:36–46:52)
  • Grinder Fest: A dance where “girls would give lap dances to the boys,” confirmed by all as normal, if problematic, for theater camps (47:43–48:31)

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7. Politics & Elitism (49:36–56:10)

• Casting is Political: Nepotism, bribery, and favoritism allegedly common at elite camps (Stage Door Manor).
• Parents are deeply involved—sometimes bribing for parts, sometimes living vicariously.
• Monetary Disparity: Camp fees up to $7,000, with staff and counselors overworked and underpaid.

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8. Devotion vs. Disillusionment (43:22–53:35)

• Stark contrast:
  • Some campers describe Stage Door Manor as “heaven on earth”—the most meaningful time of their lives.
  • Others report trauma, lack of basic amenities, and psychological harm.
• Review Quote (53:20):
  “They say ‘welcome home’ before you realize it’s an abusive household… The stuff they say on their website is an absolute lie… It is incredibly overcrowded and extremely overwhelming. Meeting my basic needs… was impossible…”

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9. Rituals & Indoctrination (35:35–40:46)

• Final performances are like “holy services” where everyone sobs and sings original songs together, cementing camp bonds.

  • Amanda: “I’m going to be on my deathbed and… remember the end of Summer song that we all sang… That’s how deep this shit is in my head.” (36:10)

• Bizarre Exercises: From pretending to be animals to sharing traumas—both freeing and confusing.

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10. Cult vs. Cringe? (58:55–60:18)

A lightning round rates various camp behaviors:

• Singing in an IHOP: Cringe
• “Grinder Fest” (lap dance dance): Soft Cringe
• Calling the camp “home” after 3 weeks: Cult
• Coming home with mono: Cringe
• Leaving reviews on your own business: Cult

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Anna on being slapped by her teacher:
  “I walked out of class scared and crying, but I kind of felt awesome.” (16:33)
• Amanda on the vulnerability/trama dynamic:
  “What is a cult other than a group that makes people feel like they're doing something profound when actually they're doing something really stupid?” (13:48)
• Dara on adult dynamics:
  “If you are not trusting implicitly this artistic director who is kind of just laying out for everyone how hard they should be working… then you’re not doing it for the good of the show.” (29:13)
• Amanda on adultification:
  “A tenet of Scientology is that children are perceived as just mini adults, and that’s kind of giving theater camp very much.” (27:48)
• Dara on being a counselor:
  “I did make a child cry… This is why I have absolutely no business teaching children without any sort of training.” (26:05)
• Chelsea on trauma-bonding currency:
  “You can bear it all and trauma, bond and dump with this group of people that forces you to kind of build community.” (23:09)
• Amanda on adult camp leadership:
  “You’re putting your kids in the hands of oftentimes narcissistic kooks who really just think in the old school way of, you have to break down an actor to build them back up. And you do not want your mushy brain child experiencing that.” (57:04)

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Verdict: How "Culty" Is Theater Camp? (60:51–62:59)

The hosts assign the “cult” rating, using their signature categories:

• Chelsea: Watch Your Back
  (“Just make sure it’s an accredited place, and the facilities are up to par with the crazy price tag.” — 61:15)
• Rhys: Leaning toward “Live Your Life” but acknowledges variance in experiences.
• Amanda: Agrees on “Watch Your Back,” citing many “culty theater directors and counselors.”

Summary:
Theater camp is a double-edged sword—a sanctuary for creative misfits and a pressure-cooker of hierarchy, politics, and sometimes inappropriate or cultish dynamics.
“It is such a weird juxtaposition of, like, a place that is so accepting of outkasts, but also, like, so catty and hierarchical and, like, cutthroat.” (62:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Definition of “culty” in theater camp: 03:54–05:41
• Guests’ credentials and camp backgrounds: 06:33–09:54
• Hierarchy & bullying stories, Anna’s teacher slap: 10:48–18:49
• Adultification & trauma bonding: 23:09–27:48
• Dogma & peer pressure: 28:16–33:26
• Sexual politics and party rituals: 44:15–49:51
• Stage Door Manor reviews (heaven vs. trauma): 43:22–53:35
• Rituals, final performance, “culty or cringe” game: 35:35–40:46, 58:55–60:18
• Final verdict: 60:51–62:59

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Final Thoughts

This episode blends personal nostalgia, dark humor, and critical analysis, exposing the strange beauty and risk found at the center of the "cult of theater camp." Both a “second home” and a source of trauma for many kids, theater camp—like all cult-adjacent groups—is as much about who’s in charge and what boundaries are (not) set as it is about the art.

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Stay culty, but not too culty.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

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[C]

I ended up getting slapped by my teacher. I was in the middle of rehearsing a scene from the Shape of Things. This like Neil LaBute play. She was trying to get her students to like wake up and like snap out of it. And I remember her coming up to me and like trying to get me to be fierce and I could feel the energy in the room completely shift and everybody get really quiet and I can see it now in slow motion. She looked at me and she just went boom. And slap me across the face. And then she made me do the scene again.

[D]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[B]

When I tell you I am shook, I am shook.

[E]

Anyone listening who's considering sending their children to theater camp, just know that it might be the best time of their lives, but there will be no appropriate adult interaction.

[A]

This is cultier than I even thought. This is sounds like a cult. A show about the modern day cults we all follow. I, Amanda Montel, author of books including the Language of Fanaticism.

[D]

I'm Reese Oliver, sounds like a cult's resident rhetoric scholar.

[B]

And I'm Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer and a lifelong student of pop culture sociology.

[A]

Every week on the show we discuss a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture, from Pilates to Playboy. To try and answer the big question.

[D]

This group sounds like a culture, but is it really?

[B]

And if so, which one of our co categories does it fall into? Is it a live your life? Is it a watch your back or a get the fuck out?

[A]

That is the point of this show. To explore how fanaticism takes hold on us all in the 21st century, to examine how power and identity identity can get warped in the fringiest corners of culture and the Internet, and to critique the culty places you might not think to look, but maybe should. Today we're examining the as intense as it is roastable cult of theater camp. Most of us probably all knew someone or were someone growing up who went to theater camp every summer and came back reborn fresh off a fling with a pimply tenor.

[D]

Longtime listeners of the POD will be familiar with both our episode on the cult of Sleepaway camps and our episode on the cult of theater. Kids, we are here today to examine what lies at the center of the Venn diagram of these two cults. And today we are here to investigate all of the ways in which the beautiful, jubilant, naive nature of free little children running amok in the fields their whole summer becomes even cultier when they are all given masks and told to reveal their deepest, darkest truths to each other and, I don't know, arrange themselves in a line by height without speaking. Shit gets cult. And we're here to uncover exactly how yeah.

[A]

Like, we have spoken so much on this podcast about how a very specific combination of vulnerability and seeking and hope and optimism perfectly positions someone to join a cult. And truly, no one has more vulnerability and optimism than a freaky kid who thinks they might be able to be on Broadway someday. Put them on an isolated compound where there are no parents on just gallivanting while singing Spring Awakening. I'm dating myself for four weeks on end now. You've really got the recipe for a cult.

[D]

Yes. Sadly, theater camps are a little bit understudied as a general phenomenon, so formal research on this topic proved to be kind of tough to track down.

[B]

So today's analysis will be based on a plethora of personal stories, because not only are all three of us hosts former theater kids, but so were our two magical guests. To help us look backstage into this cult, we're pleased to introduce the iconic Anna Camp and Dara Sussman. Anna and Dara are two pals and performers who have come prepared to dig up their past in order to help us understand what the cult of Theater camps really look like. Anna and Dara, welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself to the listeners for those who may not know who you are?

[C]

Yes. Hi, my name is Anna Camp, and I am an actress, and I am really happy to be here to talk about all things cult related.

[E]

And I'm Dara Lane, and I'm a writer and a podcaster. I have a podcast called what's yous Issue? About magazines from, you know, across all decades and genres.

[A]

Okay, Dara and Anna, could you please reveal each of your personal connections to the cult of Theater Camp?

[E]

Oh, my God. Well, my entire childhood adolescence is just, like, stamped with the mark of theater camp and just community theater in general. I was involved in a community theater pretty much, like, my whole schooling. And I was a camper. I was a counselor, so I know both sides. Okay. I like to consider myself an expert on this topic.

[A]

I'm frothing. I can't wait.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I can't wait to consume your tea, Anna.

[C]

So I went to this, like, summer program called Governor's School for the Arts. It's in South Carolina. That's where I'm from. So it's like a total summer theater camp program. And then I actually went to my college, which is North Carolina School of the Arts, a year early for high school. And that whole senior year of high school was literally the longest, most wonderful theater camp experience ever. Also, I think just I was a nerd growing up. I had Literally one friend who's, like, still my friend today. Her name is Bonnie and I love her. And we literally didn't go to lunch with other kids during high school. We just sat and directed each other in, like, plays. And we had a little company, a theater company called Lunchbox Theater. Oh, I love that. So, I mean, I'm obsessed with all the theater kids and all of the theater camp experiences that can also get a little creepy at times.

[A]

Oh, and we're gonna go there. Chelsea and Rhys. I mean, I know a little bit about each of your lore, but what are your experiences with theater camp? Each of you in depth.

[B]

Well, actually, I was gonna say, contrary to popular belief, I did not go to theater camp. I just went to theater school.

[C]

Same.

[A]

Oh, what?

[B]

That was church camp.

[A]

Oh, that was church, Amanda.

[B]

Different denomination.

[A]

Amanda, I'm recalling a story that you told. Oh, that was church camp. That was church camp.

[B]

Sorry, that was church camp.

[A]

Wrong cult. Well, theater camp was my church. I mean, it was my, like, father, my son, my Holy Ghost, my spirit. Like, it was everything. So forgive me, I confused the two.

[D]

Amanda, what about you?

[A]

Oh, yeah. What?

[E]

I.

[A]

Of course I went to theater camp.

[D]

Oh, well done.

[E]

You've been saying.

[D]

I don't know why I asked.

[A]

I still feel like. Sounds like a cult is a theater camp of sorts. But no, I went to theater camp from the age of 8 to 13, and it was my world. Like, I can call to mind the smell of the school where this theater camp took place in rural Maryland. I can put myself there so easily. I remember all the interpersonal dynamics between the campers and counselors and the camp director. Oh, my God. My most formative childhood crush was on, like, the cutest boy in theater camp, which, like, that defined my type to this day. Cutest boy in theater camp is, like, who I go for.

[D]

That's so Casey.

[A]

It is. My husband is that exact type. We had rituals, we had songs. My whole year was spent looking forward to my theater camp shout out, summer stock in Baltimore County. But, yeah, it was everything to me, and I remember everything.

[D]

This is crazy. Cause as you're talking about it, I'm getting flashbacks to hearing my classmates talk about their theater camp experiences and feeling really like, wow, Wow. I wish I could be there. I wish I could join that cult.

[A]

I mean, we could put on. I think an adult theater camp would be an amazing business.

[E]

I've seen, actually, people are doing that. It has been pushed to me specifically for adults. It's like a week long thing. It was pushed to me on Instagram. And I was like, I know I'm the type, but I would not do this. So Instagram, keep walking.

[A]

I would run one. I don't know that I would attend.

[E]

Exactly. I'd run one. I wouldn't want to go.

[A]

Okay, so Anna and Dara, could you each reveal just out of the gate, what is the cultiest memory you have of your theater camps?

[E]

I mean, my theater camp was not like a fancy overnight place. It was run through the community theater. So there were so many dynamics and it felt like NXIVM in a way where it was just a cult of theater and personality. Starting at the top with the artistic director and then beneath it, all of the sort of teenagers, like from 12 to 18, all the kids who wanted to be a part of the summer program where you'd be a counselor and then you'd also be in the shows and just the entire year and then throughout the summer jockeying for a place in the hierarchy within this summer program. And the parents were really involved. There was just like a lot of politics. It got very, very toxic.

[D]

I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm excited to hear more about it.

[E]

Well, it was just like the theater director was always very involved in the kids inner workings. The, the artistic director would pit certain kids against each other. It was like a grown up theater person who wanted to be like 17 forever. So then there was just like a lot of that kind of stuff. Parents getting involved, secret meetings in the back of like, you didn't cast my kid in this thing and you didn't pick them for the counselor and training. So as a camper you didn't really sense the cultishness. It was just like, we're having the best time and we're all in love with these teenage boys who are also just like making out with the other campers in front of us. It was truly like the asylum was being run by the inmates kind of vibes.

[A]

Yeah, no, theater camp is so very like Lord of the Flies. It's completely just these highly emotional misfit drama queens, like just running amok for a summer and like tearing each other to bits and like devouring each other. I mean, theater kids are some of the most intense kids just for the pure fact that they're often ostracized during the year because they're like maybe not the coolest kids to.

[D]

Anna's singing in the IHOP a little too loud.

[A]

Exactly. And then you get to theater camp and you can just like scream. Sing La Vie Boheme from Rent through the halls. And that is worth being low key, psychologically abused by an Abby Lee Miller type at the helm.

[E]

And in a way, you're not even realizing that it's happening. You're just like, this is the most important thing in the world. And I'll do anything I can to maintain the hierarchy that I found myself in.

[D]

Yeah, I'm becoming a better artist. It's in service of my craft.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Meanwhile, we're just singing scales and then, like, running around and eating junk food. Like, not even doing anything profound or learning that much. But we thought we were.

[A]

I mean, what is a cult other than a group that makes people feel like they're doing something profound when actually they're doing something really stupid?

[C]

I mean, right.

[E]

That the truth.

[A]

Anna, what about you? Do you have any culty recollections?

[C]

I have a lot of culty recollections. The main thing, which is pretty culty is so my senior year of high school, I then went into my college program, and it's a conservatory. But all of the theater students are only allowed to wear black. So we have to wear black. Everything. No matter where we're going, every single class, we're wearing black. Until you get to be, like, a junior or senior. Then you can, like, start to add a little color to your wardrobe in every class. So you could see the theater students walking through the campus. Just this herd of. We're all wearing black. We have black bandanas on. That's, like, insanely culty to me. And also, there was this teacher talking about, like, hierarchy and having to appeal to, like, suck up to certain teachers. We had an amazing teacher who was a Turkish teacher, and there was this lore about her that every year she would slap the blonde girl in the class. I don't know. She had a thing with, like, the girl that was trying to be so perfect all the time. And so everyone was like, it's gonna be you this year. You're gonna get slapped. And I was so scared to go to her, I ended up getting slapped by my teacher, literally. I never will forget this moment. I was in the middle of rehearsing a scene from the Shape of Things. This, like, Neil LaBute play.

[A]

Oh, my God. I know. The Shape of Things. Wow. What a. What an interesting play.

[C]

Great play. She was trying to, like, get her students to, like, wake up and, like, snap out of it. And I remember her coming up to me and, like, trying to, like, get me to, like, be fierce, be fierce. And I could feel that, like, energy in the room. Completely, completely shift. And everybody get really quiet. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I can see it now in slow motion. She looked at me and she just went, boom. And slapped me across the face. And I had one tear slowly come out of my face. And then she made me do the scene again.

[E]

And it wasn't better?

[C]

No, I was.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

No, of course not.

[C]

In the movie version, it would have been so much better, and I would have been like the black swan, you know what I mean, in that moment. But instead, I was so scared and so nervous and literally shaking that I completely boned the scene. But, like, we had some interesting things like that happen. They could never get allowed with that nowadays. That's, like, unheard of. But she taught there in the 70s where, like, stuff like that was going on.

[B]

So when I tell you I am shook, I am shook. Okay, so you know how you were talking about how, oh, you might be the one that gets slapped this year? Is it like a rite of passage type of thing? Or was it like a humiliation, something?

[C]

I mean, the other girl that I had spoken to who got slapped the year before me, she was a year older than me. She, like, carried it like a badge of honor. So I kind of took that on too. Like, after I walked out of the class scared and crying, I kind of felt awesome.

[D]

Sounds like a cult.

[A]

Okay, this is culty gaslighting. This is like the reverse of reality. Because what infamous cults from history do is make their acolytes feel like abuse is actually a privilege because you're on the inside of this, like, elite community with transcendent wisdom. And, like, what is the sense of transcendence that theater kids have? It's that one day you might be famous and you're special because you have a passion, and other kids are just these normies who play field hockey and, like, don't have a calling, but you do. And thus you should be grateful for being verbally abused or literally slapped. I mean, that's so fucking crazy. It also sounds to me like she had some. And I'm fascinated by the psychology of, like, theater teachers and theater camp directors and these power trippy types who have, like, a chip on their shoulder because they never became a star and so now they're wielding their power this way. It almost makes me think of, like, the Trinity killer from season four of Dexter or whatever that season was, where he, like, has this pattern of killing these people who fit this certain archetype of person from his past that he's obsessed with and so maybe like, some girl once in this teacher's childhood who was blonde was mean to her. She was jealous of them, and so now she's, like, seeking retribution for that.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it was weird that it was always a blonde girl. Right?

[E]

Was she brunette? What color was her hair?

[C]

She had gray hair that she dyed blonde.

[E]

Oh, there it is. She looked at you as her former self with her whole life ahead of her.

[A]

Oh, she was slapping herself.

[E]

She was doing what she wished someone had done to her at the start of her career.

[C]

Perhaps, perhaps.

[D]

And that's how cults were.

[C]

But then I definitely felt special. Like, what you were saying, Amanda. Like, even though I had been abused, I felt special and singled out. And I was like, well, maybe she sees this, like, amazing potential in me. And then the other people in, like, our class would, like, talk about it and, like, gossip about it, and it was this whole thing.

[A]

The power that theater teachers and camp counselors and directors wield, it is unmatched. I'm telling you. No one will take a slap like a theater kid.

[D]

Oh, my gosh, it's so culty. I've like, picked final performance pieces because I'm like, I know the material in this piece will make me cry and that will get me a better grade, so I'm gonna do this one. Like, theater is so culty in that way. It's ridiculous.

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[E]

Well, I think that with a theater summer camp, the thing that I just think inherently ends up galvanizing everyone into a very cult like mindset is the fact that you all have one common goal and you're all creating something together, and you're so immersed in it. It's like this one time of the year where there's no school. It kind of reminds me of what I imagine it might be to be like on Drag Race or something, where you're on this one little microcosm. You don't have to worry about anything. You have this one goal, you're working as hard as you can, and all of the real world stakes and things that you have to worry about are gone for this one amount of time. So you can just become so obsessed and engrossed. And it's the most important who gets what part, who's messing up. It's a really unique period where you're doing something really inspiring together, you know, like singing and dancing. Like, that really gets everyone on one page. But then you're also so immersed in the politics every single day.

[C]

Super, like, hyper focus, right? You're away from your family. Everything becomes its own little universe and there's like politics and like, it's just so scrunched into that period of time that I feel like you just don't see anything else besides the people that you're with and fighting for that role or that attention or that boy that you want to like you or whatever it may be like, it's just so singular of an experience.

[A]

Rhys and Chelsea, what do you think?

[D]

I think that theater kids all internally grew up very fast. I think we like to think ourselves very adult. You know, we're reading all of these scripts from all of these, like, I ate the divorce papers and, you know, and it's like, I'm 10 years old. Why am I reading this? So I think that when you take the Lord of the Flies dynamic of a summer camp where, you know, the kids are in charge, and this is like one of the first formative environments where you're developing these skills, like, how do I function in a community as, like a leader, especially for the counselors, that's another aspect of it. How do I conduct myself in society? And you add the element of, like you were saying earlier, Amanda, everybody is like the most dramatic and hormonal. And, you know, I went to high school with almost exclusively theater kids. And every day was a roller coaster of emotions. Regular high school is already bad enough. So people at that age and then theater people at that age and then summer camp kids at that age. That's one culty goddamn cocktail right there. That's what I've said.

[B]

I saw this meme a couple of months ago that was talking about, like, yeah, you studied geometry in first period, but what about burying it all before 9am and that's what I think about, like, it fosters an environment where you can bear it all and trauma, bond and dump with this group of people that forces you to kind of build community. And I feel like that is so specific to theater camp.

[A]

That is so true. Because I was thinking, like, on its face, there's a lot that theater camp has in common with sports camp. Like, yes, you're away from your parents, you're bonding over a shared goal. You're hormonal, you're horny, you're doing color war, whatever you do. There are all these traditions, and, yeah, it can get cultural. But there are these certain elements, psychologically that I think make theater camp cultier. For example, Anna, in my theater high school, all the theater kids were black, and we, like, changed in front of one another from our secular clothes into our cult uniform. And it wasn't like in locker rooms in sports, where it's like, you're divided by sex, and it's kind of supposed to be this private thing. You were supposed to seem like you were really comfortable with your body and with vulnerability by, like, changing in front of each other and in front of the teacher sometimes, like, so fucked up. But that was, like, this value, which I think relates to what you were saying, Rhys, about theater kids thinking and being encouraged to think that they're these mini grownups. Like, you know, the movie camp about a theater camp.

[C]

Anna Kendrick, what's up?

[A]

Exactly. Yes. This was early 2000s, I want to say, like 2004. Like, indie movie that was kind of inspired Stage Dora Manor, which is the camp that we're gonna be analyzing in a short while. But it was, like, the only movie about a theater camp before Molly Gordon and Ben Platt's Movie theater camp, which came out a couple years ago and is, like, so good. But anyways, the movie camp kind of shows how high stakes these summer programs can be. But one of the funniest moments of that movie is when Anna Kendrick's character, who's this kind of, like, disempowered mousy girl who is obsessed with this popular girl at the theater camp who doesn't remember her. Anna Kendrick's Char is like, oh, my God, remember me from last year? And the girl's like, no. And Anna's like, we were in Night Mother together, which. It's a two person play and they're like little kids and it's a play about like a daughter talking to her mother about her impending suicide.

[C]

Yeah. And she doesn't remember her. It's so good she doesn't remember her.

[A]

So it's like the stakes are so high. Everything is so intense. You're like a little adult. You're supposed to be getting naked in front of each other. Now you have the summer camp element to it. Your parents are aren't there at all for weeks on end. The only person in charge truly are, like, other theater kids and a former theater kid director who is like the most theater kid of them all. It's just insane.

[E]

Now I have a story of when I was a counselor and it does not put me in the best light. But I am just curious for you guys, like when you were at theater camp, how much the counselors that had perhaps been coming back from a theater program, how they were trying to, I guess, take their teachings that are being given to adults in their 20s and being like, well, I'm going to see how this works on like 12 year olds. Because I went to theater school and then I come back and I was basically doing Meisner with 12 year olds. Meisner. The whole point being breaking down someone. And I did make a child cry. And like, listen, I did not feel great about it, but at first I was just like, oh, well, this is what I'm learning. This is like an easy little warmup that we could do. Come in, do it again, do it again, do it again. It's like, oh, no. This is why I have absolutely no business teaching children without any sort of training. Because I'm like, yeah, this will be like a nice quick little theater game that we could just run through at the beginning of class before we do like an all white version of Once on this island or something.

[C]

Jesus cries. Great musical, though.

[A]

Did you ever cry at theater camp?

[C]

I mean, I definitely cried. I mean, I cried when I got slapped, but I mean, listen, we were always crying about something. Like, I just remember everybody, like my senior year of high school, everybody was sleeping with everybody. Everybody was having sex with every single other person. And then somebody was going to get upset about that person that they had just had sex with the other day. And it's like you were there for a summer, but it felt like it was like two years of, like a lifetime. So many things happen. Right. Like, it was crazy.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

I just remembered that a tenet of Scientology is that children are perceived as just mini adults, and you're supposed to, like, punish them sort of equally, allegedly, because, yeah, they're just perceived as like, grown ups in tiny bodies. And that's kind of giving theater camp very much.

[E]

Definitely.

[A]

Okay, so we wanna move forward with some of our culty analysis.

[B]

Yes, I wanna talk a little more about the rituals and the power dynamics within these theater camps. So as we learned during our episode on Sleepaway Camp, quote, the sense of community that forms in a sleepaway camp can be profound. End quote. That's according to clinical psychologist Dr. Sandra J. Anderson. The connections formed and experience shared during this developmentally important time in a kid's life can produce a sense of group identity that can be addictive and foster intense group loyalty. Sounds like a cult. So, Anna and Dara, what do you think the central uncompromised dogma of theater camp is? And can it be generalized so widely?

[C]

That's a big question.

[A]

That's what we like to do here. It sounds like a cult. Take a little old topic and ask a big old question.

[C]

Happy Sunday, everybody.

[E]

I mean, I feel like I can only speak to my experience, and my experience was also colored in by just being involved in a community theater in general. But it was basically, you have to always be for the group, but more specifically for the artistic director. You are not for the group if you are not trusting implicitly this artistic director who is kind of just laying out for everyone how hard they should be working, how much of themselves they should give to it, and abiding by whatever weird rules that kind of change for different people and then any sort of pushback on that. It's. You're not doing it for the good of the show and kind of like teaching people that if you do push back, there will be consequences. Like, you can still get pushed out of this group. You could still be in the play, but pushed out of it socially, and then fear for what happens in the future. So, like, for the. The program that we had for the summer, it was like you're spending the whole year proving yourself, so then you can end up getting one of these spots. So, yeah, I guess cult worship of a charismatic middle aged man, oh, man.

[C]

I think for me, it has to do a little bit with what you were saying, Chelsea, about trauma bonding. There were certain kids that maybe were not as comfortable being vulnerable or talking about, like, bad things that happened to them. And, like, these group circles when we were all trying to, like, mode or coming up with those, like, I didn't really like this, and I don't use it now as an actor, but, like, when your dog died, like, think about something, like, really, really sad, and then you can, like, substitutions or whatever. Right? So there was a lot of, like, if you're sitting around in this circle and you're not sharing your trauma, then you weren't for the group. So for me, it was like we were all kind of forced to be, like, super vulnerable with each other and super, like, dramatic and. And super emotional. And it was almost like some kids were trying to top one another with how dark their lives had been and all the trauma that they had been through, and that was like, they would win the session or something in some way. So for me, I feel like that's something that really stood out as, like, a very kind of culty bonding thing, for sure.

[A]

Totally. It's like trauma and vulnerability becomes a kind of currency.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That is so valuable within, like, the closed system of this group. But then if you were to leave and go about your daily life just, like, spilling your guts all the time, people would be like, are you okay? Like, what are you? Like, this isn't normal.

[D]

You go to theater school for that.

[C]

Also, just, like, what you're saying about currency, I mean, it's very similar to Scientology, where, like, we all had information on one another at that point. So if one of us decided to, like, leave the group or, like, talk about it with, like, maybe a dancer or maybe, like, a visual artist, it's like, we would be excommunicated. Right. Or we would have this power in some way with that information. So it's very culty. Actually, the more I think about it, it's NXIVM collateral.

[A]

Okay. Now that you talk about it, I do actually remember. So at my theater camp, the camp director was a woman, and she was like, like, diet Abby Lee Miller. And she was a dancer. That was her background in training. And so she prized the dance students at the theater camp above everyone else. And so even though I really wanted to major in acting at the camp for many years, I did dance instead. I'm not a good dancer because I wanted her approval. And every time she would, like, like, host the orientation for the dance majors, she would literally say, like, you are the most special ones here. No one else gets it. And she would say these. Now I'M realizing really inappropriate things about, like, how in our bodies we were and how, like, sensual we were. And we're, like, 12. Okay. And I was just like, okay, I have to live up to this. Powerful. Within the context of the camp woman's vision for, like, what a star is. It was genuinely creepy.

[B]

You guys are unlocking so many core memories for me. Like, I keep saying I didn't go to theater camp, but was definitely in theater school. And what keeps coming up is, like, this intense adultification of kids, obviously. And, Dara, when you were talking about, like, the charismatic leader and how you trusted this one person, obviously, we all had that theater director that we trusted. What mine did specifically was same thing kind of made us have this. This stigma against the musical theater people. And we were like, the grunge, you know, like, we were the real theater people. So when we see the musical theater kids, we were like, ugh, gross. And it created this, like, us versus them. And then I distinctly remember us doing a street performance in the downtown of the city that I lived in. And we did Sexual Perversity in Chicago by David Mamet. And I, like, invited all my family members, and I was, like, 15, and I remember performing this, and my grandmother, Baptist grandmother, was like, what the actual fuck are y' all doing?

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. You need an outsider to come in and be like, yo. Like, what?

[B]

Inappropriate. Inappropriate.

[A]

So, yeah, but at the same time, like, I loved it. It was the most meaningful thing in my life.

[D]

Well, because when you get approval and that teacher makes you feel like an adult and you feel like you're better than those musical theater kids because you're a true artist, that's a good feeling. That's what all these little kids at these ages want to feel. And I think especially to harp again on the endurance aspect of it and how. How much weight is placed on your ability to endure trauma in the name of, like, making good art. I think something about it being within a summer is also a very culty aspect of it, because a lot of the time, it's like the big lead up at the end of the summer is a show or something, some kind of material. Like, Dar, you were saying, we can do it in service of something larger. And in the case of theater camp, that larger thing is like a material representation of what a close bond you formed with all of these people and how hard you've worked and how good you've gotten at your craft.

[A]

It is the final performance I remember at my theater camp felt like a holy service.

[D]

Then everybody sobs afterwards. And the goodbye afterwards.

[C]

Oh, are you guys guys friends with any people that you went to camp with still, or do you keep in contact at all?

[A]

I would love to get back in touch. I will say, after we released our Cult of Theater Kids episode of this podcast, years ago, someone came out of the woodwork from my theater camp and was like, oh, my God, having flashbacks. And she was like, do you remember the end of Summer song that we all sang?

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I was like, wait, remind me, remind me. And she sent the lyrics and I was transported. That memory was lodged underneath a rock in my brain. And then the rock was taken off and I was like, how the fuck could I ever forget? There was this song that we all sang at the end of camp, speaking of rituals. We would gather in a circle, everyone who went to the camp holding hands, and we would all weep our souls out as we sang. I'm gonna spare you from singing the whole entire thing, but the song was like, we all have magic around us. The sun and the moon to guide us.

[C]

It was like, that's so cool.

[A]

It was an original song. Yes. And then, like, at the end of the song, there was this long, drawn out finale and all the kids would be harmonizing and there was a climactic moment. It was like, summer is the time to discover. It was like. It was crazy.

[C]

I can see it.

[D]

They're all filming you for the commercials for next year. You don't realize.

[A]

No, it stuck with me. I'm gonna be on my deathbed and people are gonna be like, amanda, what do you remember? What do you remember? What are some of the memories coming to you? I'm gonna be like, that's how deep this shit is in my head.

[C]

Oh, my God, So good.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Speaking of drama.

[B]

Yes, yes. Anna and Dara. So obviously it's no surprise. We've talked about it enough, that theater kids are dramatic and love intense games, trauma dumping and singing constantly. Do you have any memories along these lines from theater camps or programs? And how do you think they added to the cultishness?

[E]

Hmm.

[A]

Did you ever have to, like, be an animal?

[B]

Oh.

[E]

I mean, that kind of stuff, like, that doesn't even register to me as weird. Cause it's just like, whoa.

[D]

Weird.

[E]

Like, yeah, of course. That was like, the beginning of the day. You're pretending to be a chair. You're pretending to be a zebra. You're writhing around on the floor. Yeah, sure. That was very culty. Okay. I was just thinking of it as, like, well, how else are you going to get into your Body and shed all of the walls and defenses you have, if not by driving around pretending to be, like, a book or, like, who knows?

[C]

We had to go to the zoo and bring, like, notes and, like, find an animal and study it and then come back and turn into that animal. And then we had to take the animal and turn it into a person with a backstory. And we'd have to, like, act out something solo on stage. Like, we'd have to go back to our dorm rooms or whatever and, like, bring stuff and, like, create, like, a. Like, a room and, like, do this whole thing, this, like, solo activity or whatever, like, as the animal that turned into a character. And I was a fox. I was a Fennec fox, and I turned into a lawyer named Felicia. I was a defense attorney, and I was losing the case, and I was just getting drunk in my apartment. This was, like, a class we had to do.

[A]

I'm remembering it all.

[C]

Thank you for that.

[A]

Okay, so this part, if I may, as silly and outlandish as it is, this part is all giving, live your life level cult. This is all, you know, children are meant to play in a fantasy world. I love all of that. But, Dara, you said, what other way are you supposed to, like, shed your walls and defenses? And, like, great. You know, vulnerability is beautiful. But then when you have unsupervised power, Trippy failed actors at the helm of this thing who are then coming into these defenseless kids and being like, you're so special, I'm gonna slap you. Now there's a problem.

[E]

Oh, sure.

[C]

That's why it's confusing. Because one minute it seems very helpful and that you're, like, learning something about yourself as an actor, and the next minute you feel like you're, like, in a weird cult. That's why it's, like, very, very trippy and really confusing, especially as a kid.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

I mean, I remember my artistic director one day saying to me, I was just with him and a couple other kids, really, in the office, and it somehow came up, like, basically, why'd you leave the biz? Why'd you leave New York City? Which is a loaded question. And he said in the most, like, serious. Staring off into the middle distance, like he meant it. And he goes, I was driving around New York, and I saw a woman walking through the crosswalk. And I just thought to myself, I could hit her if I wanted to, and maybe I will. And then I decided I needed to leave New York City.

[B]

I was like, ah, okay.

[A]

So, like, homicidal ideation.

[C]

Wow.

[E]

Please know that that is true. It is what he said. And I was like, okay, the man in charge of today's youth, ladies and gentlemen.

[D]

And I can hear like so many different male acting teachers from my past saying that exact thing. And like, I believe that many of them have felt that sentiment. And that's scary.

[A]

There is something extremely fucking putrid and dark in all of the straight male theater to end some of the gay ones too. Theater teachers and directors that I had, except for one major exception, my middle school theater teacher, Gary Tiller. Heaven sent. I want to shout out that man right now. He is exempt from all of this analysis. Gary Tiller was divine and I worship him to this day. Culties, I'm going to cut right to the chase. I am obsessed with my new Zeni prescription sunglasses. I always thought prescription sunglasses had to be like $200, so I would wait months, if not years to replace mine, even as they became criminally out of fashion. And then I learned about Zenni. Zenni is an online eyewear shop. Prescription glasses sunglasses, blue light glasses starting at under $30. You go to zenni.com pick out a frame, upload your prescription and they ship it to your door. No appointment, no store, no upsell at the counter. And at that kind of price, it feels like the world is your oyster. The site is so user friendly, I virtually tried on a bunch of different pairs before picking mine out. I'm sure at another establishment the glasses that I got would be like hundreds of dollars. But they were 50 bucks for prescription sunglasses. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zenni.com podcast and use code podcast15 for for 15 off your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I.com podcast promo code podcast15. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with Popping Boba. To crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavor flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's.

[C]

Refreshers contain caffeine.

[D]

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[C]

is a registered trademark of the Coca Cola Company.

[D]

These theater camp experiences, like you were saying, Anna, they can be so extremely hot and cold. I was on previews with a Z.com which is like the top premier rated website for all of your summer camp review needs in Case you were wondering, we were able to uncover some camper and counselor reviews of one of most famous theater camps in the country, Stage Door Manor, attended by the likes of Robert Downey, Jr. Colti, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Natalie Portman, Bryce Dallas Howard, Zach Braff and Mandy Moore. So I am going to run you through a few and chime in with any reactions you may have, any memories these evoke. So our first review says Stage Door Manor is my idea of heaven on earth. You will love it, I think, Amanda, that's something you said verbatim earlier. But then on the other side of the coin, we have what up? Hit of a camp with immature counselors. Kids bond based on their similar interests, but there is no appropriate adult interaction.

[C]

Appropriate? Oh, wow. That's a very intense statement.

[E]

And that is true. I would say anyone listening who's considering sending their children to theater camp just know that it might be the best time of their lives. But there will be no appropriate adult interaction. It's just the nature of the biz, okay? You're letting creative, often mentally ill people just run amok.

[B]

Yep.

[E]

At least let it be day camp. Don't send them the whole summer.

[C]

No, not Sleep Away.

[A]

Mine was half and half because you did go home on the weekends, but it was sleepaway during the week. And oh my God, speaking of no appropriate adult interaction. So, like, every night, much like, I don't know, the Playboy Mansion, there was an elaborate party thrown for the Sleepway campers. Whether it was like fucking horse girl night or luau or the most anticipated party of the summer, nightclub night.

[E]

Oh, now I wish I was there. That sounds like the best that I hear. Everybody looking forward to that.

[A]

Well, so get this. One of the most mortifying memories of my adolescence was the first summer that I signed up for Sleep away. I was 11 years old. And you get like a list of the parties to prepare costumes for. Like.

[D]

Like when you go on the Bachelor

[A]

and you're like, these are the outfits I have to prepare.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, honestly, literally, Chelsea knows. Anywho, so I'm like preparing my outfit for nightclub night. I'm 11 years old. I'm totally prepubescent. I don't understand what a nightclub is. In my mind, I think nightclub night. Oh, my God, amazing. It's like cabaret. So I prepare an outfit with a leotard and a little ballet skirt and some clowny makeup. Like, literally the musical cabaret. I wore a beret, a brooch. There was a lot of burgundy to this outfit. I get dressed up for nightclub night and I look around and all the other girlies are in like Paris Hilton ass miniskirts and one shoulder crop tops. And I was like, oh, no.

[D]

I hope you know we would have been friends that night.

[E]

That is darling. That is absolutely darling.

[A]

Thank you. I freaked out. I didn't know what to do. I had to like scramble to like roll up a T shirt and turn it into a crop top. I didn't know what the fuck was. I didn't understand what a boner was. I didn't understand that you were supposed to inspire boners in the boys when you got the next one throwing ass. No, exactly. I was just. I thought we were gonna get in a circle and be like, welcome. I didn't understand.

[D]

So none of you people are here to learn about fascism with me? Great.

[E]

I know.

[A]

I was just like, where is the clowning element of this nightclub?

[D]

Yeah, that's actually so funny. That's so similar to how my best friend and I became best at theater school. Our homecoming dance. We were the only two people who came dressed in theme, which was twenties, and everyone else did like a sexy thing with some pearl accessories and we went full out in some shapeless ass dresses. And we were the only ones bold enough to do it.

[A]

Baby, I love that. And this was the crazy thing is that like the counselors and that camp director was like, at nightclub night, you know, like, all bets are off. Like, you go for it, kids.

[C]

Like, what?

[D]

That sounds like welcome. And to me, like, hello.

[C]

What does that mean for an 11 year old child?

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

It was.

[A]

It was a crash course that I was so unprepared for in like sexual dynamics at the club. I was not ready.

[D]

Speaking of nightclub night and what does this even mean to an 11 year old? I'd like to get into our next review. Has anyone heard of Grinder Fest? Apparently a camper described a dance where girls would give lap dances to the boys. Can anyone confirm this? Looking to send my daughter but afraid if this is the case, I can

[C]

confirm it and I wasn't there. That's confirmed. That's confirmed by them parents.

[E]

This is normal. It would be weirder if this wasn't happening at theater camp.

[D]

Know that?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, the sexuality I feel like is through the roof at a theater camp because you are so much in your body and you're like having to dance close and do things and be physical and be animals. Of course you're gonna be grinding all over whoever you can once nightclub hits.

[D]

Baby, you're ready. You're Pent up. You've been doing these scenes from Angels in America all week.

[A]

Well, okay, so this is crazy. And I feel like they should have like sex education at theater camp because it is a horny place.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

But you're not. You don't know what's going on. You like just grew breast buds. Like you don't know.

[C]

Well, you're going to find out.

[E]

You're going to find out from the older people. Well, that's the other thing. The way that community theater, theater camp, it encourages people to act older. It also encourages there be no boundaries between year to year differences in age groups because you're not operating within the system of grades anymore. Sure, there's a hierarchy to age, like, oh, she's a senior, she needs to get the best part. But you're still kind of interacting with everyone as if you're similar ages. So a 13 year old might be spending a lot of time with a 17, 18 year old and kind of of mixing up what are maybe more age appropriate things to be doing and talking about because they're just thrown into the mix like a little bag and shaken up.

[D]

It's like those classes where it's one teacher teaching multiple grades, where it's like, I don't trust that everybody's getting what they need here. Okay, it's time to get into the more political side of the cult of theatre camp, as the both of you referenced at the beginning of our episode. So here's another review. As for casting, people request parts, leads included. The directors can be ornery and nasty, some are not. It is all politics when it comes to leads, etc. If they like you, you'll get a good role, if not ensemble. I recently heard a mother paid the camp director to give her daughter a lead last year. It made sense because honestly, the kid was okay, but not one of the best performers. It is very sad to think they would entertain this. They would probably deny it, but it came from another mother who knew firsthand. The backstabbing of other kids and parents can be horrific. But my kid made some nice friends.

[C]

This lady's nuts. Insane lady is nuts. The shade, the fact that she goes online and is like writing this is like so intense to me. I want to play her in a movie. I want to play that mother so bad. It's intense. But my kids made friends. But I don't know. It's so good. I'm not surprised by any of the fact that people are paying for roles and bribing people for roles. I mean, it's so intense and like just thinking about theater parents also in general, that's a whole nother cult of people and like beauty pageant moms and all of that stuff where they're living through their kids and they're wanting their kids to have like the best. I mean, I'm definitely not surprised that all of that is happening.

[A]

Oh totally.

[D]

Yeah, definitely not. And especially because while the stakes feel so high for the kids when you're in it, the stakes are like really not very high at all for any of the adults running the show. Like it does not matter to them who gets the lead.

[E]

I don't know if that's true. I think that there are a lot of times where it's like, oh no, this is my whole life. Like they're running a camp which they have to throw their whole life and soul into. And sure, when they were these kids ages, they thought they were going to be on Broadway maybe. And so I think they very often end up caring just as much. But then if they like people, they're just naturally going to give those people parts or I mean, money changing hands. That's interesting because, because you know, Stage Door Manor, those kids are coming in with more money than just a regular community theater or something.

[C]

I think my ex husband went there. One of my ex husbands, excuse me, went to Stage Door Manor for sure.

[D]

Yeah, we're gonna get into the shmoney later because it is not cheap at all. This next review kind of speaks to Stagedoor Manor's culty bait and switch nature. It's promised to be this haven for talented kids, kids. But then you show up and the grounds itself are allegedly like a total shithole with like kids sleeping six to a room, destroying each other for the best roles in camp shows. And according to some, not even having their basic needs met. So here's another review. Stage Door was one of the most traumatizing experiences of my life. It's been a year and I still get nightmares every night. In Stage Door I considered self harming. I experienced suicidal thoughts again for the first time in almost a year. The facilities are absolutely horrendous. This the stuff they say on their website is an absolute lie. The rooms are tiny and the bathrooms don't even have soap or a lock. There's no air conditioning even in 100 plus degree heat. It's incredibly overcrowded and extremely overwhelming. Meeting my basic needs at Stage Door was impossible. I got sick. I tried to sleep in my room, but I was kicked out by a counselor so I could Go to an acting class where, mind you, we weren't learning a thing. They say welcome home before you realize it's an abusive household. This is a horrible camp. I beg of you to not send your children there because I would hate for any kid, especially those younger than me, to experience what I did.

[C]

Terrifying.

[A]

Pretty crazy.

[D]

Horrible.

[E]

I have no doubt it was probably deeply traumatizing and probably it is a hellhole. I was never up for that. I was like, I want my own stuff. And this does feel traumatizing to have to play by someone else's rules all summer.

[D]

Yeah, I think the reviews can serve as like a culty Rorschach of how it can be culty from all of the angles because the cultish environment can definitely be contributed to by the participants and most often is. And I think theater camp is a prime example of that. And there are a lot of reviews that absolutely love Stage Door and refer to it as their second home. This one continues. I see a lot of bad reviews that say stuff like, people only pay for leads and you only get cast if you went years prior. Those people couldn't be more wrong. All the leads are cast on talent. Sure, you are more likely to get cast once you have gone to camp at least once, but that is only because the casting directors now know you can act on a standard stage. If you are reading this to decode whether or not to go, all it can say is, if you are willing to put in the time and effort into your show, yes, go. You will love it. But if you are just going to complain about getting put in ensemble and give your director a hard time about it, don't go. It ruins the theater experience and can be very disrespectful. Now, if you are a theater nerd, this is your sign to sign up for Stage two.

[E]

Perfect little disciple of the cult.

[C]

Yeah, who's that?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Okay, so now to kind of end our cult analysis, we've got to discuss some of the allegations of labor exploitation at Stage Door, which were allegedly justified because the camp was just so special. Stage door is rated 2.5 on Indeed and assumedly doesn't pay its counselors that well. But the cost of attending a session is $6,995. From a review from Indeed.com Horrible place to work. They do not know how to treat anyone. The staff is extremely overworked, and I went four weeks working 17 hours a day without a day off.

[A]

I believe it completely.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

A review of Stage Door Manor from camp previews. I was an educator at this camp. And I was disappointed to find out that the camp teaches the children to be stars, not actors. I saw elitism being encouraged. The sense that just because you can sing a song, dance, or act better does not make you a better person than others around you who also enjoy theater. The mind games that are played on the kids by the directors can really mess up a young person's mind and make them sick. It is really a pity. The camp has the potential to be a great place for learning. Instead, it is a place for spoiled rich kids to look down on others. My advice to the older kids at Stagedoor Manor is to go and get a job at summer stock theater and see how real theater is performed and gain some valuable experience if they want to pursue a career on the stage. Damn.

[A]

Ooh, that reminds me. I did feel a lot of pressure from this camp to return year after year after year or else you would lose, I don't know, this, like, sense of importance, your progress, you know? Yeah. Like if you went to other camps or if you decided.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To get a summer job, there was this sense of loss that, like, your life was gonna be less meaningful and that the other kids were gonna move on without you. And it was like turbo fomo, I would say.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, I'm just like confused. Like, if it's $6,000 per student, where is the money going?

[B]

Girl, you know where the money's going.

[A]

They're pocketing.

[C]

I know it, I know it. They're pocketing those money. But, like, that's so sad. I still, like, I. These kids are not having soap in the bathroom. What is the food like that they're eating? That sucks.

[E]

I feel like the thing is with camps is there's a lot of people just pocketing a lot of money and there's minimal to no oversight. And I feel like if you want to send your kid to a theater experience, you have to be very careful because you are putting your kids in the hands of oftentimes narcissistic kooks who really just think in the old school way of you have to break down an actor to build them back up. And you do not want your mushy brain child experiencing that. So if you do have the capital to spend that, then you should look into like an accredited theater school that probably does a summer program. I feel like most do. And then you have real teachers and like dorm rooms and things like that

[D]

that I don't think there's a non culty theater camp alternative.

[E]

Oh, no. It's all going to Be cult. It's just a matter of, like, will your kid have air conditioning or nightclub night?

[A]

Well, yeah. Oh, my God. It's just so funny because at the beginning of this conversation, we were like, oh, my God, I would love to run a theater camp. What does that say about me? But famously, we said it for adults. I would never want to run or council a theater camp for kids. It's just so much pressure. Like, they're so vulnerable. I just can't. This is cultier than I even thought. Okay, so before we release you from the cult of this episode recording, we want to play a little game. So this game is called Culty or Just Cringe? So we're gonna read you a list of theater camp oriented situations, and you're gonna evaluate Anna and Dara whether you think the situation is culty or just cringe. Okay, so the first one is singing at the top of your lungs in the IHOP with your castmates.

[E]

Just cringe.

[C]

Just cringe.

[A]

Beautiful.

[D]

Not to make you hear me say this word again. Grinderfest. We'll tear.

[C]

Just cringe, cringe, cringe and fun fair.

[D]

Yeah, Soft cringe.

[C]

It's soft cringe. It's like cringe adjacent. Listen, I grinded on every one of my gay best friends at my. My theater.

[A]

Yeah, same.

[E]

And you're gonna find Grind Fest in a lot of places where children are gathering. Okay, it's not just theater kids. Like, we are a horny bunch, but

[A]

it's not just us that's so fair.

[D]

Theater camps are relatively harmless. Grinder Fest environment.

[C]

They're way worse.

[B]

Okay, calling a place you stayed for three weeks home.

[E]

Cults.

[C]

Cults.

[A]

Totally. Yes. Okay. Saying. I mean, come on, at least we have hot water and a shower and we don't have to bathe in the lake like. Like at other camps.

[C]

Cult.

[A]

Cult.

[D]

Coming home with mononucleosis.

[C]

Extremely cringe.

[D]

I know someone who did this every year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Damn. Well, they was living at Grindr. And then last but not least, leaving an indeed review on your own business.

[E]

Oh, that's.

[D]

That's cult.

[C]

That's pretty cult.

[E]

I mean, it could be cringe, but I think in these contexts, it's cult. It's a part of it.

[A]

Agreed. Dara, Anna, thank you both so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. If people want to keep up with you two, where can they do that?

[E]

Follow me on Instagram.

[C]

Aralane, Anna, you can follow me on Instagram at Therealanna Camp, which. Which is kind of culty, so thankfully.

[A]

Incredible. Thank you. Both so much.

[C]

Thank you, guys.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Okay, Rhys, Chelsea, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do we think the cult of theater camps falls into?

[B]

Watch your back.

[D]

I was gonna go live your life, you guys.

[A]

What?

[D]

I am so gonna go live your life. Because I think it's no cultier than summer camps or theater independently.

[B]

No, I agree with that. But I believe all of those are watch your back as well. And just thought about Dara when basically the point that she made was, like, if you're going to send your kids to a theater camp, just make sure that it is, like, one of those accredited places that they're actually going to learn something and the facilities are going to be up to par with the crazy price tag that you're paying. So that's where I get my verdict from.

[A]

Yeah, I actually agree. I think it's a watch your back simply because I have had so many culty theater directors and counselors. I wasn't traumatized by them, but I can imagine that some kids would be, honestly. And so I think you've got to, like, know your kids sensitivities and, like, what they can handle and take that into account too.

[D]

Yeah, I think I'm definitely including that in my rating because all of the experiences of theater camp I have are of people who are very down to clown, so to speak, literally and figuratively. So I think theater camp is different for everybody. But, yeah, watch your back, live your life. Do what you want.

[A]

It is such a weird juxtaposition of, like, a place that is so accepting of outkasts, but also, like, so catty and hierarchical and, like, cutthroat. Like, it takes a very specific person to be able to truly, truly handle that. And I think I was that person.

[D]

It's like, I do think that the theater community and, like, the book community are two sides of the same coin. And I think, like, romance readers and theater kids, I'm seeing a lot of parallels between like, or I guess, like, I'm thinking more about fan fiction. But it's just, you know, people who have been ousted, they go and they create their own little cults of their own. And those are my favorite cults are the little weirdo freak cults.

[A]

Me too. Okay, amazing. Well, that's our show.

[B]

Thanks so much for listening.

[D]

Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty,

[A]

but not too culty. Sounds like a cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel, Reese Oliver and Chelsea Charles. Our Managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Kolb. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book Cultish the the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse. Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com soundslikeacult Foreign. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every

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