Can Trump’s royal welcome keep the U.S.-U.K. relationship 'special'?

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Sources & Methods (NPR)

Episode: Can Trump’s royal welcome keep the U.S.-U.K. relationship 'special'?
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guests: Michelle Kellerman (Diplomatic Correspondent), Danielle Kurtzleben (White House Correspondent), Daniel Estrin (Tel Aviv Correspondent), Anas Baba (Producer, Gaza)

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the state of the “special relationship” between the United States and the United Kingdom amid President Trump’s high-profile and lavishly ceremonial state visit to Britain. The focus is on changing diplomatic norms, the reality behind public pomp, the shifting U.S.-U.K. alliance, and pressing global issues that surfaced during the visit—especially the war in Gaza. On-the-ground reporting from protests and press conferences, expert analysis, and insider observations bring listeners behind the scenes of this consequential diplomatic moment.

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1. The Royal Visit & The Press Conference

The Setting (London, Chequers, Windsor)

• Mary Louise Kelly sets the scene from London, emphasizing the contrasts: widespread protest, extravagant royal ceremony, and layered security.
• Danielle Kurtzleben reports from outside Chequers, the prime minister’s country residence, fresh from the joint Trump–Starmer press conference.

[01:41] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“Well, I am outside of Chequers. That is the prime minister's country residence. That is where we just watched that press conference between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer.”

Key Takeaways from the Trump–Starmer Press Conference

• Points of disagreement between Trump and Starmer were apparent, especially on the UK's move to recognize a Palestinian state.
• Trump stuck to a narrow focus on October 7 as rationale for U.S. policy, repeatedly circling back to that date when Gaza was mentioned.
• Body language and setting: The press were “packed in like sardines” in an opulent but compact room—a symbol of both the grandeur and the intensity of the moment.

[02:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“There were questions about the UK's impending decision to recognize Palestine as a state. And Donald Trump responded… saying, 'this is just one issue, one of the few issues on which I do not agree with Prime Minister Starmer.'”

[03:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“The room was opulent, but... all the reporters were really packed in like sardines.”

On Which Reporters Got Called On

• Trump called on right-leaning outlets: GB News (UK), Real America’s Voice, and Fox News.
• Starmer took more questions and faced tougher scrutiny from the British press, whereas U.S. reporters’ questions to Trump were more favorable.

[04:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn… Real America’s Voice and… Fox News. And the questions, quite frankly from the US reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters.”

Notable Absences

• Despite expectations, the Jeffrey Epstein story did not arise directly; the controversy around the UK’s (recently removed) ambassador with Epstein links was briefly mentioned.

[05:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“…direct questions about Jeffrey Epstein did not come up today. And look, I don't know what to make of it beyond being very, very surprised.”

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2. Is the 'Special Relationship' Still Special?

Diplomatic Pomp vs. Policy Reality

• Michelle Kellerman notes that all the ceremonial trappings may not translate into real diplomatic leverage.
• The UK faces similar transactional, deal-based diplomacy from Trump’s administration as other European countries—tariffs, criticism, and “deal making” rather than big-picture alliance strategizing.
• Trump did signal some disillusionment with Putin, in contrast to his earlier praise, but there was no clear policy shift.

[08:47] Michelle Kellerman:
“I think the special relationship has never always been all that special.”

[09:04] Michelle Kellerman:
“They’re treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It’s all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of… this special alliance.”

Notable Quote

[07:29] Mary Louise Kelly:
“…a month and three days, and he's saying, president Putin, he's let me down. He's really let me down. Does that open the door at all to Ukraine and its European allies…?”

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3. Gaza: The Central Tension

Reporting from the Ground: Gaza & Israel

• Daniel Estrin and NPR producer Anas Baba recount the daily reality within Gaza: displacement, destruction, and the growing sense of dire conditions as Israel presses a new ground offensive.
• Israeli strategy now focuses on occupying central Gaza City, a move likely to increase humanitarian risks and international backlash.

[13:03] Anas Baba:
“In front of me, a father with his two children, he's sitting on the sidewalk and he's sitting above all of his luggage, his tent....”

[14:25] Anas Baba:
“I stood in the dust and debris of one of those towers filming the attack.”

• The Israeli military chief of staff is reportedly warning against this offensive, fearing a quagmire—a view not echoed by the Trump administration.

The Policy Divide: Trump, Starmer, and the International Community

• Starmer has vowed to recognize Palestinian statehood unless Israel moves toward a ceasefire, while Trump remains steadfastly pro-Netanyahu, giving him added latitude.
• Trump did not mention Gaza’s suffering at the joint press conference, prompting criticism from both the press and European leaders.

[16:28] Michelle Kellerman:
"His answer was just don't forget about October 7th.... This administration has pretty much given Netanyahu free rein. And I think that's pretty shocking…”

• European countries—especially at the forthcoming UN General Assembly—are expected to push for Palestinian recognition and a two-state solution.

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4. The UN Genocide Report & Growing Israeli Isolation

Reaction in Israel

• The UN’s accusation of genocide by Israel is largely rejected by most Israelis, who’re familiar with international criticism and see such claims through the lens of the Holocaust.
• However, Israelis are unsettled by mounting international isolation: attacks abroad, loss of public support (Eurovision controversy), and potential German military export suspension.
• Netanyahu’s stark “super Sparta” speech reflects increasing pressure and the fear of diminishing foreign support, which triggered a sharp market drop.

[21:14] Daniel Estrin:
“This UN report is just one example of something a lot bigger that Israelis are looking at… you see the isolation and many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.”

The U.S. Position

• The U.S. administration did jointly condemn Israeli strikes on Qatar, breaking from its previous absolute alignment, but otherwise remains supportive of Israel, even putting pressure on the Palestinian Authority by withholding visas for the UN General Assembly.

[21:44] Michelle Kellerman:
“It was surprising just because this administration hasn't criticized Israel at all. But that was a strike on an ally in the Middle East, Qatar.... I think next week you're going to see the US and Israel very isolated at the UN.”

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5. OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) Segment

A listener favorite, the OSINT section shares small but telling insights that suggest bigger truths in the world of national security.

Security at Windsor: The Hidden Protectors

[24:16] Mary Louise Kelly:
“...when you're watching all the proceedings at Windsor Castle...look for the men in the tailored coats, look for the carriagemen on the back of the carriages. He said they are protection officers.”

UN Entry Restrictions

[24:51] Michelle Kellerman:
“This year, the Trump administration is not giving visas to the Palestinian Authority… They're not even letting them come to the General Assembly.”

Historical Precedent

[26:02] Daniel Estrin:
“The US also blocked a visa for the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat back in 1998 for the UN. I didn't know this before. The UN actually moved its General Assembly meeting to Geneva in order for him to be able to come and give a speech.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michelle Kellerman, on transactional diplomacy ([09:04]):

  "They're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special alliance."

• Danielle Kurtzleben, on press handling at conference ([04:12]):

  "President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn, which is a UK organization that is right leaning… And the questions, quite frankly from the US Reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters.”

• Daniel Estrin, on the impact of international pressure ([21:14]):

  “You see international pressure growing on Israel over its conduct in Gaza. You see the isolation and many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.”

• Mary Louise Kelly, on the 'special relationship' ([08:29]):

  “It was actually Winston Churchill who coined that phrase shortly after World War II. Of course. Of course it was Churchill. He owns all the best turns of phrase…”

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:41] — Danielle Kurtzleben reports from Chequers
• [02:12] — Differences on Palestine recognition and Gaza between Trump and Starmer
• [03:12] — Description of the press conference scene
• [04:12] — Analysis of which journalists were called on
• [07:29] — Trump’s shifting language on Putin
• [08:47] — Assessing the “special relationship”
• [11:46] — Transition to focus on the Gaza conflict
• [13:03-15:03] — Reporting from Gaza (Anas Baba & Daniel Estrin)
• [16:28] — European/US policy divides on Gaza
• [19:05] — The UN genocide accusation and Israeli reaction
• [21:44] — Discussion of US diplomatic surprises and isolation at the UN
• [24:51] — OSINT segment: Security at state visits, UN visa denial
• [26:02] — Historical context: 1998 Arafat visa, UN General Assembly removal

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Final Thoughts

This episode brings clarity to the apparently glittering but increasingly complicated U.S.-U.K. “special relationship,” set against a backdrop of pressing international crises and shifting diplomatic norms. Pomp doesn’t always equal substance, and the growing rifts over issues like Gaza and Russia suggest an alliance under strain. Listeners receive rich reporting, vibrant vignettes from press pools and conflict zones, and insightful, sometimes sobering, expert commentary on where global alliances might be headed next.

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Transcript

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[Michelle Kellerman]

They're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special election alliance.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

After a royal charm offensive. How special is the so called special relationship feeling between the UK and the US we'll check the temperature and dig into one of the key points of tension, the war in Gaza. This is Sources and Methods from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Every Thursday we discuss the biggest national security stories of the week. Today I am in London where I've been covering President Trump's visit, protests, royal carriage ride, business deals, security details and all. NPR diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman has been following it from her perch at the State Department. And Michelle, no royal carriage rides for you, alas. But I guess you probably have better weather than we do here in Britain, so you can take the win. And we also have on the line White House correspondent Daniel Kurtzleben, who's actually on this side of the pond with me today. Danielle is part of the White House pool traveling with President Trump. Hey, Danielle.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hey there. You can hear a helicopter behind me. That's how you know this is real.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. Tell me where you are. What's the scene?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, I am outside of Chequers. That is the prime minister's country residence. That is where we just watched that press conference between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer. And right now the press pool is just waiting outside for our next move.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I wonder, while I have got you before you board the plane and helicopter and then plan and fly home with with the president to Washington, what jumped out at you from this much anticipated press conference with British Prime Minister Kirstarmer?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, a couple things. First of all, the diplomatic issues on which the two men disagree. And I think this jumped out to a lot of people. First of all, there were questions about the UK's impending decision to recognize Palestine as a state. And Donald Trump responded to a question about that, saying, look, this is just one issue, one of the few issues on which I do not agree with Prime Minister Starmer. And when the question of Gaza came up at all, Donald Trump just kept going back to October 7th to the horror of that day as A way of backing up his decision to continue supporting the real.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, I'm just going to jump in because we can hear that you're very much in the thick of it and just get a little bit of your sense of what it is there. Pull back the curtain on what it's like to be actually in that room. What struck you in terms of trapping, in terms of body language, things we might not have been able to see, those of us who were watching a video feed from the outside.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

The room was opulent, but like opulence has been the name of the game this week here in the uk. I mean, between the President's visit to Windsor, we in the press pool went to Windsor. Today we did not get to go in, but even from the outside it is just stunning, the grandeur of it. And here at Checkers similarly, it's no Windsor Castle, but it is a large, beautiful place. And that room that we were in for that press conference, you couldn't see it on the TV feeds, but it was a room about as wide as it was tall. It was kind of a cube and so it wasn't very large length and width wise, all the reporters were really packed in like sardines.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, and speak to that, because the reporters packed in like sardines. I was interested in who got called on at this press conference. Minister took the first few questions. President Trump. Who did he call on and what, what were you noticing as a White House correspondent?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, quite frankly, the president called on right leaning, not to put it mildly, reporters from right leaning organizations. Prime Minister Starmer for his part, did two rounds of questions. I think he took about half a dozen questions, but then President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn, which is a UK organization that is right leaning.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yes.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

He called on Real America's Voice and he called on Fox News. And the questions, quite frankly from the US Reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters. Questions pushed Keir Starmer and Trump for that matter.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, I was in the GB news newsroom here in London yesterday, getting a sense of how they were covering this visit. So it was really interesting to see their new Washington anchor getting the first question. One topic that did not seem to come up, Jeffrey Epstein. There was a lot of expectation that these two leaders didn't want to talk about it, therefore reporters would definitely ask them about it. What do you make of that?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Look, I am not going to speculate. I don't know what to make of that. But that was, that was stunning to me. I Don't know why no one asked about that. The, the question of that UK Ambassador did come up, though. Someone did ask Keir Starmer about Peter Mandelson, the ambassador who was fired recently after some emails came to light showing that he was quite friendly with Epstein, even after Epstein had been convicted of some pretty heinous things. So that did come up a little. But you are absolutely right that direct questions about Jeffrey Epstein did not come up today. And look, I don't know what to make of it beyond being very, very surprised.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, Danielle Kurtzleben, we are going to release you to the helicopter and to the flight that is taking you and the rest of the White House reporters back to Washington today. Thanks so much for joining Sources and Methods.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Yeah, thank you for bearing with me.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

All right, well, while Danielle makes it to the airport, Michelle Kellerman, I want to run through some of the takeaways that you have from that press conference we just watched back in February. This was when this all got put in motion. Keir Starmer was visiting the Oval Office. He pulled a letter for Trump out of his jacket pocket. This is really special.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

This has never happened before.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This is unprecedented, unusual, indeed, unprecedented invitation from King Charles for a second state visit. My question, Michelle, did it work? What was your takeaway on what these two leaders walked away from after this meeting?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to tell yet whether all of this flattery, the pomp and circumstance is really going to make a difference. I mean, we did hear the president shift gears on Russia a bit. He had met with Putin in Alaska and rolled out the red carpet there. And since then, we've seen the Russians continuing to bomb Kyiv. And Keir Starmer even pointed out that they're hitting things like the British council in Kyiv and the EU Embassy. And you have Russian drones flying over Poland. So the Brits have really wanted to keep a focus on that and to get Trump to kind of change his mind on Putin and to really step up the pressure.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, and it was interesting. I was in Alaska for that summit, and I remember it ended with Trump thanking, and I'm quoting, his good friend Vladimir for a very successful meeting. Here we are a month later. I think it's like a month and three days, and he's saying, president Putin, he's let me down. He's really let me down. Does that open the door at all to Ukraine and its European allies for trying to translate Trump maybe signaling a personal shift to an actual policy shift?

[Michelle Kellerman]

It could, but we didn't hear what that policy Shift might look like. We did hear the president say that he thinks that Putin is gonna drop out of this if the price of oil comes down. So he's encouraging the Europeans to stop buying oil from Russia. And he's really kind of trying to put the onus back on the Europeans. I'll do the press, but you have to as well. We'll see if that really happens.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So let me end us back on the special relationship. I looked this up. It was actually Winston Churchill who coined that phrase shortly after World War II. Of course. Of course it was Churchill. He owns all the best turns of phrase. Does the special relationship still look special from your vantage point covering U.S. diplomacy?

[Michelle Kellerman]

I think the special relationship has never always been all that special.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I mean, it's come a long way since Churchill.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah. Even helped the UK I mean, the UK has seen tariffs like other countries. The UK has come under criticism from this administration for cracking down on hate speech. That's something that the Trump administration is bringing on the Europeans, including the Brits. So President Trump has a fondness for the Brits. His mother came from Scotland and he talks about that a lot. But, but you know, they're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special alliance. It's gotten down to kind of more transactional diplomacy.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And there was a lot of transactional diplomacy at this particular diplomatic encounter. There were US Business leaders in the room, British business leaders in the room, and many billions in tech and energy and other deals announced. Okay, Michelle Kellerman, stay with us because after a short break we're going to dig into one of the issues that was front and center during this press conference. Indeed, it got the very first question and a few more after that. That's the war in Gaza. You're listening to Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

All right, we're going to spend the next few minutes on what was perhaps the biggest area of tension at the Trump Starmer meeting and that that is Israel's ongoing offensive in Gaza. It was the one area where we heard President Trump allow that he has some disagreements with Keir Starmer and the Brits. We know that this summer Starmer vowed the UK Would officially recognize Palestinian statehood unless Israel moved on a ceasefire and moved toward long term peace. Well, instead, Israel has launched a major ground offensive in Gaza City and once again, hundreds of thousands of people are being forced to evacuate. So I want to pull a voice from Tel Aviv into conversation, and that voice is Daniel Estrin, our correspondent for NPR based in Tel Aviv. Hey, Daniel.

[Daniel Estrin]

Hi, Mary Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Hey. Okay, so we're going to talk this through with you and Michelle and I would love to start with how we know what is happening on the ground. I just said you're in Tel Aviv, you're not in Gaza. We do have a producer in Gaza, Anas Baba, who you work with closely on a daily basis. Can you pull back the curtain a little bit on just how that works?

[Daniel Estrin]

Yeah. Anas Baba has been reporting for us from Gaza for the entire duration of the war. He's from there and we get reports from him every single day.

[Anas Baba]

In front of me, a father with his two children, he's sitting on the sidewalk and he's sitting above all of his luggage, his tent.

[Daniel Estrin]

He records the sound of bombardment. Just to laugh at, in the last couple nights, he has recorded overnight the sound of artillery fire, of helicopter fire, of warplanes, Israeli warplanes, rumbling in the skies above Gaza.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, we always want to be careful because his security is paramount. But what is he sharing about what he is seeing, what he is living through? As you said, he's from Gaza. He's not only reporting the story, he's living it as this new renewed massive Ground operation cranks up.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Daniel Estrin]

And this. This ground operation has been very slowly advancing in phases. And first, Israeli troops were active on the periphery of Gaza City. And while he was reporting on that, he was also packing up his family's home, the furniture, all the belongings, and renting a van, moving it to a warehouse in southern Gaza as Israel was slowly advancing its troops in the periphery of the city, where his family has had his home for as long as he's been alive. And then in the last several weeks, tall buildings have been obliterated by Israeli airstrikes.

[Anas Baba]

I stood in the dust and debris of one of those towers filming the attack.

[Daniel Estrin]

I watched a video that he filmed of intense gray plumes of smoke just rolling in. He filmed a woman afterwards picking through the belongings in the tent she's in. She could only salvage Lipton tea bags. And then this week, that intensified bombing at night that I mentioned. So all of this is very intense, but it's also very slow and gradual. Israel turning the screws, trying to encourage and scare Palestinians into leaving the city in advance of troops rolling in.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And you're there in Israel. You cover Israel. What is Israel saying about why, about why this is the strategy they're choosing to pursue?

[Daniel Estrin]

Well, Israel is signaling this is a different chapter of the war than every other chapter. Every other chapter, troops went into areas, fought Hamas brigades, and then left those areas. And this is different because the army says that they will be sending troops into the heart of Gaza City. This is Gaza's biggest city, dense urban environment with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living there. Still, some have left, but the majority of the city's residents are still there. And then we don't know what will happen. The plan is for them to be there indefinitely. And so this leaves Israel in a completely new situation. Will soldiers be responsible for providing food and water and basic services to hundreds of thousands of civilians in the middle of a dense urban area? The Israeli military chief of staff, privately, we hear in reports, is warning this would be a full military occupation that Israel does not want. He's been warning against this operation, against this offensive, and yet it's moving ahead.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Michelle, jump in. You have reported from the Middle East. You're now covering Middle east diplomacy from Washington and about to cover it from New York, from the UN General assembly, which begins next week. What is striking you and what you're hearing, Daniel, say, what kind of questions are going to be on your mind?

[Michelle Kellerman]

You know, one of the British reporters asked a question of Trump today, and it was basically, you're the only one who can stop Netanyahu. What are you gonna do? His answer was just don't forget about October 7th.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There was no mention of suffering in Gaza.

[Michelle Kellerman]

I mean, this administration has pretty much given Netanyahu free rein. And I think that's pretty shocking because of course, the US Wants him to win once the hostage is released. But as Daniel said, you know, there are Israeli military people who are saying this is a bad mistake. I mean, friends don't let friends make mistakes like that. Right. But you're not hearing any kind of pushback from the Trump administration. And on the other hand, you have the Europeans who are going to the UN General assembly next week. There's going to be a big event on Monday where more and more countries are going to recognize a state of Palestine.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, speaking of the United nations, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we will talk about the sweeping report from a United nations commission that accuses Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. Will it make a difference?

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv. Pit back up. I want to ask about this independent United nations commission that has found Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Now, Israel, not surprisingly, is rejecting this as distorted, calling it false. How is the news landing where you are in Israel?

[Daniel Estrin]

Most Israelis are not very rattled by this report. Israelis are used to hearing scathing reports from the United nations for decades. And on the question of genocide, most Israelis see this in the lens of the Holocaust and they say Gaza is not Auschwitz. I will say there is something that is rattling Israelis and it is the sense of international isolation that Israel is has been rapidly facing. This UN report is just one example of something a lot bigger that Israelis are looking at. And I can give you a number of examples. Israelis vacationing abroad have been attacked on the streets of Europe in several instances, the Eurovision Song Contest. And don't laugh that I'm bringing this up because this is a huge deal for Israelis. Yeah, they're obsessed with Eurovision and they compete. And the Eurovision Song Contest is under big pressure from several countries to disqualify Israel. Germany is probably Israel's biggest ally besides the US and it is now talking about suspending military exports to Israel. Military exports that could be used in Gaza. And other European countries are doing the same with their military exports. And this week there was a speech by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that really rattled Israelis. He said Israel may have to become, and I quote, a super Sparta and self reliant in building its weapons on its own without depending on support from other countries. And after that speech, the stock market in Israel plummeted. So you see international pressure growing on Israel over its conduct in Gaza. You see the isolation and many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Michelle, weigh in on that because I'm thinking it's very hard, I will say, to keep track of quite what the US position is on some of this. On the one hand, we saw just today President Trump again not mentioning the crisis in Gaza, instead focusing very much on wanting to get Israeli hostages home. That follows last week though, the US joining the UN Security Council and condemning Israeli strikes on Qatar. As someone who's covered the UN for a long time, how surprising was that?

[Michelle Kellerman]

It was surprising just because this administration hasn't criticized Israel at all. But that was a strike on an ally in the Middle East, Qatar. The US has a big base there and I think Trump sounded frustrated with Netanyahu about that. They sent Marco Rubio to go to Qatar, but that's it. I think next week you're going to see the US and Israel very isolated at the UN. I mean, you know, 142 countries already in the General assembly have approved this declaration that the Saudis and the French have come up with, which is basically just trying to revive the whole notion of a two state solution, saying that's the only way to really resolve this. It's not going to change anything on the ground. If you have more and more countries recognizing the state of Palestine, that doesn't wish it into existence, but it will step up the pressure internationally. And you know, just listening to the words that Keir Starmer used, he said we have to end the catastrophe in Gaza. He said the situation is intolerable. Those were pretty strong language that he had today.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So that's a little bit of what to look for next week. I'm gonna move us toward our last segment, the very popular, increasingly popular Osint section of our podcast. Before I do, a quick reminder, you can email us. We are at sourcesandmethodspr.org you can send us your question, your feedback, your tips. A thank you to listener Sam in the D.C. area who did just that. He wrote to say he listens on Friday mornings while getting ready for school, high school. And he asked us, how about covering eastern sentry? Now, that is a NATO operation to protect territory on the eastern flank of the alliance. And Sam, we will keep it in mind. He also adds that his favorite part of the show is osint. So, Sam, this one's for you. For those of you who are new to osint, it means open source intelligence, osint. It's the final segment of our show. We share some not so secret details that maybe might reveal a bigger story. If you know where to look, I will kick us off. This is something fascinating that I just learned this week here in London. We were doing all kinds of reporting on the security preparations for President Trump's visit. They are immense, as you will imagine. And we interviewed a guy named Nick Aldworth. He used to be the UK's National Coordinator for counterterrorism. And he said, you know, when you're watching all the proceedings at Windsor Castle, all the royal pageantry, look for the men in the tailored coats, look for the carriagemen on the back of the carriages. He said they are protection officers. He also said, look at the military that are riding on horseback with swords that you might imagine are ceremonial. No, no. He said every year they get together, they practice how they might block an attack. He said, it's really impressive to watch. So I had no idea. I just figured they had a really good tailor and good suits. But there you go. Michelle Kellerman, what do you have?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, as I'm getting ready for the UN General assembly, the words that keep coming back up is the headquarters agreement. You know, the UN Is based in New York in the us. And the US has an obligation to allow people to come to the UN to speak countries from around the world. And, you know, you had Soviet leaders during the height of the Cold War. I remember Hugo Chavez from, from Venezuela speaking after George Bush had spoken and he said the devil was here today and it still smells like sulfur in the room. You know, you've had a lot of drama of people over the years and, you know, a lot of kind of bad actors coming to the UN General Assembly. But this year, the Trump administration is not giving visas to the Palestinian Authority. Those are the people that, you know, you'd think the US would want to support to have some sort of future Palestinian state and to talk about this statehood issue, to talk about peace. But the US doesn't want to see the PA have a role in Gaza, and they're not even letting them come to the General Assembly.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Wow, Daniel, I bet you have thoughts on that from Tel Aviv.

[Daniel Estrin]

Well, I will mention one thing there. There is a precedent there. The US also blocked a visa for the Palestinian leader Yasser arafat back in 1998 for the UN. I didn't know this before. The UN actually moved its General assembly meeting to Geneva in order for him to be able to come and give a speech. That was in 1998. What I'm hearing from Palestinian officials and from my reporting here is that the Palestinian Authority president without a visa now, thanks to the Trump administration, they did not want to rock the boat by asking the UN to move the UN General assembly this year. And so it's going to be in New York without him. They didn't want to rock the boat because they want to remain in the US's good graces. So we'll have to see if Abbas sends his speech on video. I don't know.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I do not either. But I do know I'm glad to have had the chance to talk to you. NPR international correspondent Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv. Thanks so much.

[Daniel Estrin]

Oh, it was a pleasure. Thank you.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman in Washington. Thank you.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Great to be here.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That's our show for today. One more thank you for this week to our NPR NPR supporters who hear the show without sponsor messages, if that is you, thank you. Starting next week, you'll have access to our growing archive, which includes all but the most recent four episodes. If you're not a supporter, you can learn more and you can sign up at plus.npr.org plus.npr.org, the link. It's in our episode notes. Supporters help keep this show going, you power independent journalism across npr. We're back next Thursday with another new episode. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Thank you for listening to sources and methods from npr.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

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