Podcast Summary:
Sources & Methods (NPR)
Episode: Can Trump’s royal welcome keep the U.S.-U.K. relationship 'special'?
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guests: Michelle Kellerman (Diplomatic Correspondent), Danielle Kurtzleben (White House Correspondent), Daniel Estrin (Tel Aviv Correspondent), Anas Baba (Producer, Gaza)
Episode Overview
This episode examines the state of the “special relationship” between the United States and the United Kingdom amid President Trump’s high-profile and lavishly ceremonial state visit to Britain. The focus is on changing diplomatic norms, the reality behind public pomp, the shifting U.S.-U.K. alliance, and pressing global issues that surfaced during the visit—especially the war in Gaza. On-the-ground reporting from protests and press conferences, expert analysis, and insider observations bring listeners behind the scenes of this consequential diplomatic moment.
1. The Royal Visit & The Press Conference
The Setting (London, Chequers, Windsor)
- Mary Louise Kelly sets the scene from London, emphasizing the contrasts: widespread protest, extravagant royal ceremony, and layered security.
- Danielle Kurtzleben reports from outside Chequers, the prime minister’s country residence, fresh from the joint Trump–Starmer press conference.
[01:41] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“Well, I am outside of Chequers. That is the prime minister's country residence. That is where we just watched that press conference between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer.”
Key Takeaways from the Trump–Starmer Press Conference
- Points of disagreement between Trump and Starmer were apparent, especially on the UK's move to recognize a Palestinian state.
- Trump stuck to a narrow focus on October 7 as rationale for U.S. policy, repeatedly circling back to that date when Gaza was mentioned.
- Body language and setting: The press were “packed in like sardines” in an opulent but compact room—a symbol of both the grandeur and the intensity of the moment.
[02:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“There were questions about the UK's impending decision to recognize Palestine as a state. And Donald Trump responded… saying, 'this is just one issue, one of the few issues on which I do not agree with Prime Minister Starmer.'”
[03:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“The room was opulent, but... all the reporters were really packed in like sardines.”
On Which Reporters Got Called On
- Trump called on right-leaning outlets: GB News (UK), Real America’s Voice, and Fox News.
- Starmer took more questions and faced tougher scrutiny from the British press, whereas U.S. reporters’ questions to Trump were more favorable.
[04:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn… Real America’s Voice and… Fox News. And the questions, quite frankly from the US reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters.”
Notable Absences
- Despite expectations, the Jeffrey Epstein story did not arise directly; the controversy around the UK’s (recently removed) ambassador with Epstein links was briefly mentioned.
[05:12] Danielle Kurtzleben:
“…direct questions about Jeffrey Epstein did not come up today. And look, I don't know what to make of it beyond being very, very surprised.”
2. Is the 'Special Relationship' Still Special?
Diplomatic Pomp vs. Policy Reality
- Michelle Kellerman notes that all the ceremonial trappings may not translate into real diplomatic leverage.
- The UK faces similar transactional, deal-based diplomacy from Trump’s administration as other European countries—tariffs, criticism, and “deal making” rather than big-picture alliance strategizing.
- Trump did signal some disillusionment with Putin, in contrast to his earlier praise, but there was no clear policy shift.
[08:47] Michelle Kellerman:
“I think the special relationship has never always been all that special.”
[09:04] Michelle Kellerman:
“They’re treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It’s all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of… this special alliance.”
Notable Quote
[07:29] Mary Louise Kelly:
“…a month and three days, and he's saying, president Putin, he's let me down. He's really let me down. Does that open the door at all to Ukraine and its European allies…?”
3. Gaza: The Central Tension
Reporting from the Ground: Gaza & Israel
- Daniel Estrin and NPR producer Anas Baba recount the daily reality within Gaza: displacement, destruction, and the growing sense of dire conditions as Israel presses a new ground offensive.
- Israeli strategy now focuses on occupying central Gaza City, a move likely to increase humanitarian risks and international backlash.
[13:03] Anas Baba:
“In front of me, a father with his two children, he's sitting on the sidewalk and he's sitting above all of his luggage, his tent....”
[14:25] Anas Baba:
“I stood in the dust and debris of one of those towers filming the attack.”
- The Israeli military chief of staff is reportedly warning against this offensive, fearing a quagmire—a view not echoed by the Trump administration.
The Policy Divide: Trump, Starmer, and the International Community
- Starmer has vowed to recognize Palestinian statehood unless Israel moves toward a ceasefire, while Trump remains steadfastly pro-Netanyahu, giving him added latitude.
- Trump did not mention Gaza’s suffering at the joint press conference, prompting criticism from both the press and European leaders.
[16:28] Michelle Kellerman:
"His answer was just don't forget about October 7th.... This administration has pretty much given Netanyahu free rein. And I think that's pretty shocking…”
- European countries—especially at the forthcoming UN General Assembly—are expected to push for Palestinian recognition and a two-state solution.
4. The UN Genocide Report & Growing Israeli Isolation
Reaction in Israel
- The UN’s accusation of genocide by Israel is largely rejected by most Israelis, who’re familiar with international criticism and see such claims through the lens of the Holocaust.
- However, Israelis are unsettled by mounting international isolation: attacks abroad, loss of public support (Eurovision controversy), and potential German military export suspension.
- Netanyahu’s stark “super Sparta” speech reflects increasing pressure and the fear of diminishing foreign support, which triggered a sharp market drop.
[21:14] Daniel Estrin:
“This UN report is just one example of something a lot bigger that Israelis are looking at… you see the isolation and many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.”
The U.S. Position
- The U.S. administration did jointly condemn Israeli strikes on Qatar, breaking from its previous absolute alignment, but otherwise remains supportive of Israel, even putting pressure on the Palestinian Authority by withholding visas for the UN General Assembly.
[21:44] Michelle Kellerman:
“It was surprising just because this administration hasn't criticized Israel at all. But that was a strike on an ally in the Middle East, Qatar.... I think next week you're going to see the US and Israel very isolated at the UN.”
5. OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) Segment
A listener favorite, the OSINT section shares small but telling insights that suggest bigger truths in the world of national security.
Security at Windsor: The Hidden Protectors
[24:16] Mary Louise Kelly:
“...when you're watching all the proceedings at Windsor Castle...look for the men in the tailored coats, look for the carriagemen on the back of the carriages. He said they are protection officers.”
UN Entry Restrictions
[24:51] Michelle Kellerman:
“This year, the Trump administration is not giving visas to the Palestinian Authority… They're not even letting them come to the General Assembly.”
Historical Precedent
[26:02] Daniel Estrin:
“The US also blocked a visa for the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat back in 1998 for the UN. I didn't know this before. The UN actually moved its General Assembly meeting to Geneva in order for him to be able to come and give a speech.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
Michelle Kellerman, on transactional diplomacy ([09:04]):
"They're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special alliance."
-
Danielle Kurtzleben, on press handling at conference ([04:12]):
"President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn, which is a UK organization that is right leaning… And the questions, quite frankly from the US Reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters.”
-
Daniel Estrin, on the impact of international pressure ([21:14]):
“You see international pressure growing on Israel over its conduct in Gaza. You see the isolation and many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.”
-
Mary Louise Kelly, on the 'special relationship' ([08:29]):
“It was actually Winston Churchill who coined that phrase shortly after World War II. Of course. Of course it was Churchill. He owns all the best turns of phrase…”
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:41] — Danielle Kurtzleben reports from Chequers
- [02:12] — Differences on Palestine recognition and Gaza between Trump and Starmer
- [03:12] — Description of the press conference scene
- [04:12] — Analysis of which journalists were called on
- [07:29] — Trump’s shifting language on Putin
- [08:47] — Assessing the “special relationship”
- [11:46] — Transition to focus on the Gaza conflict
- [13:03-15:03] — Reporting from Gaza (Anas Baba & Daniel Estrin)
- [16:28] — European/US policy divides on Gaza
- [19:05] — The UN genocide accusation and Israeli reaction
- [21:44] — Discussion of US diplomatic surprises and isolation at the UN
- [24:51] — OSINT segment: Security at state visits, UN visa denial
- [26:02] — Historical context: 1998 Arafat visa, UN General Assembly removal
Final Thoughts
This episode brings clarity to the apparently glittering but increasingly complicated U.S.-U.K. “special relationship,” set against a backdrop of pressing international crises and shifting diplomatic norms. Pomp doesn’t always equal substance, and the growing rifts over issues like Gaza and Russia suggest an alliance under strain. Listeners receive rich reporting, vibrant vignettes from press pools and conflict zones, and insightful, sometimes sobering, expert commentary on where global alliances might be headed next.