Hegseth blocks promotions / National Guard surge / Downed Apache

Summary

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"Hegseth Blocks Promotions / National Guard Surge / Downed Apache"

Sources & Methods (NPR)
Air Date: June 11, 2026
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guests: Tom Bowman (NPR Pentagon Correspondent), Kat Lansdorf (NPR Reporter)

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Episode Overview

This week's "Sources & Methods" dives into three major national security stories:

• The Pentagon's controversial blocking of military promotions under Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
• The unprecedented and increasing deployment of National Guard troops to U.S. cities, especially Washington D.C.
• The fallout and technological intrigue following an Apache helicopter being downed by an Iranian drone, and a first-ever drone rescue at sea

Mary Louise Kelly is joined by seasoned correspondents Tom Bowman and Kat Lansdorf to unpack the facts, the politics, and the broader implications of these evolving stories.

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1. Pentagon Promotions Blocked by Secretary Hegseth

What’s Happening and Why?

• 24 officers have had their promotions “withdrawn,” with 60% being Black or female.

  • Affected ranks include Navy captains, Air Force and Army colonels, and Marine one-star generals.
  • “Highly unusual for a defense secretary to reach down at that level... with no explanation.” (Tom Bowman, 01:46)

• Lawmakers' Reaction:

  • Rep. Pat Ryan (D-NY) is pushing for an amendment requiring Secretary Hegseth to explain each withdrawal within five days.
  • Senate is expected to take up similar issues.

• Questionable Rationale:

  • Public explanations cite “meritocracy,” but private skepticism abounds.
  • Hegseth is known for skepticism toward DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) programs.
    • “He has questioned officers in the past… ‘Did this person get his job because of his race? Did this female officer get it because of her gender? We're done with this DEI thing, right?’” (Bowman, 05:10)

Notable Exchange

• When asked about at-risk officers:

  • “This officer is dumbfounded. He said, ‘I've done 30 years in the military, no blemish on my record. I don't know why my name was withdrawn from the list.’” (Bowman, 03:41)

• No Clear Appeals Process:

  • “Yeah, he can do it... officers serve at the pleasure of the president... someone can grab me out of the blue and say, ‘you're done,’ and not give me a reason.” (Bowman, 10:09)

Broader Impact

• Morale and Recruitment:

  • “There’s an element of fear now at the Pentagon. You don’t want to raise your head, say anything against the policy, or even question it.” (Bowman, 10:46)
  • “If I’m a Black officer... do I want to spend my whole career here if someone’s just going to grab me out of the blue and say, you're done?” (Bowman, 10:59)

• Social Media Scrutiny:

  • “Some of these officials... are going through the social media posts of officers. And one officer... basically said the US should do more to help our Afghan allies. He was fired over that.” (Bowman, 11:32)

Key Quote (on Hegseth's pattern):

• “Anyone with a sliver of independence gets axed. And clearly, if you look at the stats, there’s a racial and gender element here as well.” – Rep. Pat Ryan (paraphrased by Bowman, 08:56)

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2. National Guard Surge in Washington D.C. & Other Cities

The Situation

• Troop Deployments:

  • National Guard troops are visible on the streets of D.C., Memphis, New Orleans, and previously Los Angeles.
  • Active deployments driven by “fighting crime” missions, though Guardsmen have no arrest authority.

• Federalization and Politics:

  • Deployments in some cities have been against governor wishes, via federalization by President Trump.
    • “President Trump threatened to deploy the National Guard to Portland, Chicago, but those were deployments that were against the governor’s wishes... very, very unprecedented.” (Lansdorf, 13:09)

• Currently DC-Specific:

  • About 3,500 National Guard now, increasing to 5,000 for the summer, notably for the nation's 250th anniversary.
  • Presence expected to remain through the 2028/29 inauguration. (Bowman, 21:35)

Cost Considerations

• "About $600 a day per member... Right now we have about 3,500 National Guard here... That’s about $2.2 million a day.” (Lansdorf, 16:36)
• When ramped to 5,000, “more than $3 million a day.” (Lansdorf, 19:26)

Effectiveness and Social Norms

• Crime Impact:

  • "The deployment itself has had very little to no effect on violent crime in the city... but about a 24% reduction in opportunistic crimes like petty theft, vehicle break-ins." (Lansdorf, citing Niskanen Center, 15:13)

• Societal Impact:

  • Normalization of uniformed armed troops is raising concerns with constitutional scholars and residents.
    • “It does kind of feel... like the frog and the boiling pot of water. We started with 800 troops... now we're at 3,500. We'll be at 5,000... it's unclear if that number is going to tick back down or... keep ticking up.” (Lansdorf, 20:04)
    • “It makes a place like D.C. or Memphis look like... an autocratic government.” (Bowman, 21:55)

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3. The Downed Apache and Unmanned Rescue at Sea

Incident Recap

• Exchange of Fire: U.S. and Iran engaging in ongoing hostilities despite nominal “ceasefire.”
• Event: An Iranian drone shot down a U.S. Apache helicopter.
  • The two crew members survived and were rescued in a remarkable operation by a seaborne drone.

The Rescue Drone

• Technical Details:
  • 24-foot speedboat-style drone; range of 1,000 nautical miles, can carry 1,000 pounds. Manufactured in Austin, Texas.
  • First-ever drone-led rescue of U.S. personnel at sea.

Memorable Moments

• “I was talking to one of the company executives... does this thing, like, pull up and say, hello, I'm from a friendly country... Is there food on board? Is it kind of like a grubhub... classified, we can't get into it. But this thing picks them up, takes them back to a warship...” (Bowman, 25:07)

• “This is the first time that something like this has ever been done by the US Military... by Task Force 59, the navy's first unmanned and AI task force.” (Lansdorf, 26:08)

• Mary Louise Kelly’s Verdict: “They will be dining out on this story for the rest of their lives.” (Kelly, 25:56)

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4. OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) and Field Notes

Bowman’s OSINT Insight (Army Officer Exodus):

• Army official notice (May 26):
  • "Separation rates have increased... company grade officers are frustrated by a lack of stability, negative impacts of army life on their family, and lack of enjoyment or fulfillment.” (Bowman, 27:01)
  • Cited stopping of fellowships at “woke” institutions (Harvard, SAIS, Brookings) as a driver for officers leaving.

Lansdorf’s Field Memo (Lebanon Ceasefire):

• On the fragile Israel-Hezbollah situation:
  • “We will do whatever it takes to get our land back. If that means negotiations... But if we need to fight for our land back, we'll fight for our land back.” (Quote paraphrased, Lansdorf, 28:36)
  • “It’s not just about the US and Iran... this has kind of opened a Pandora’s box in the Middle East, and it's really hard to put that back in the box once it's been opened.” (Lansdorf, 29:28)

Kelly’s Reflection (Cindy McCain Event):

• Evoked a rare bipartisan spirit at a Capitol event honoring Cindy McCain:
  • “Democrats and Republicans, as we know, do not agree on much these days, but they were united in saying thank you. ... It felt like this flashback to a time in Washington when elected politicians from both parties could debate... but could come together and be gracious and pay tribute to someone who is serving their country.” (Kelly, 31:14)

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Key Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the promotions blockade:

  • “He is, quote, unquote, anti woke and anti DEI... at least for the six that we know that have been taken off the list, they do have the merit.” – Kat Lansdorf (05:12)

• On normalizing National Guard presence:

  • “People don’t bat an eye anymore... It does kind of feel a little bit like, like the frog and the boiling pot of water.” – Kat Lansdorf (20:04)

• On the drone rescue:

  • “It looks like a 24 foot sailboat without the sail... company in Austin, Texas has made 300 of these things... picks them up, takes them back to a warship” – Tom Bowman (24:30)

• On the Army’s retention crisis:

  • “Company grade officers are frustrated by a lack of stability, negative impacts... lack of enjoyment or fulfillment.” – Tom Bowman, citing Army notice (27:01)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Hegseth blocks promotions: 01:13 – 11:41
• National Guard surge in DC/US cities: 12:20 – 22:17
• Downed Apache/Rescue drone: 23:11 – 26:44
• OSINT & field reporting: 27:01 – 29:50
• Bipartisan tribute to Cindy McCain: 29:50 – 32:09

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is direct, analytical, and often incredulous as the correspondents unpack policies and trends with far-reaching repercussions for military morale, civil-military relations, and U.S. standing at home and abroad. There is a sense of concern over politicization at the Pentagon, normalization of militarized streets, and the opening of unpredictable new fronts with advances in technology and ongoing Middle East instability.

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For listeners:

If you missed the episode, this summary covers all crucial themes, evidence, and perspectives—capturing how policy, politics, and world events intersect to affect Americans at every level of national security.

Transcript

[A]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Your time is worth more than a waiting game. Carvana gives you a transparent offer for your car in minutes and picks it up from your door. Sell your car [e-mail] pickup fees may apply. There's an element of fear now at the Pentagon. You don't want to raise your hand, say anything against policy or even question it.

[B]

Pete Hegseth is blocking some promotions at the Pentagon.

[A]

Why?

[B]

And a summer surge for National Guard troops here in Washington. The current number is going to double. This is SOURCES and METHODS from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Thursday, which means we're diving into the week's biggest national security stories with NPR reporters out and about covering them. Joining me today here in the studio, NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Hello, my friend.

[A]

Hey, Mary Louise.

[B]

And for her debut on sources and methods, NPR's Cat Lansdorf, my travel buddy. We dug into stories I'm trying to think like Kyiv, Amman, Jerusalem, Georgia, the country Tbilisi. Yeah. Where are we going next?

[C]

You tell me. Let's go.

[B]

For now, we are in the studio and I will timestamp this. It's about 25 minutes past noon here in Washington. Tom, just down the street from where you and I and Kat are sitting, lawmakers are busy, among other things, marking up the annual defense bill, annual being the key. They do do this every year. But this year they are using this as a tool to question Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth about promotions or lack thereof, because he has been blocking promotions. What's going on?

[A]

Well, first of all, 24 officers, their names have been withdrawn from the promotion list. 60% of them are black or female officers. And they're from all the services, Mary Louise, Navy captains, the Air Force and Army colonels and two Marine one star generals. So I reached out to Congress, Pat Ryan, he's a New York Democrat who did two combat tours in Iraq and he's pushing an amendment and he got full approval from the Armed Services Committee on a voice vote. And he's basically saying, listen, we want Secretary Hegsa to explain why each officer was withdrawn from these promotion lists within five days after this bill becomes law. And the Senate is also expected to take this up. But there's a real concern here. It's like, wait a minute, 24 officers. And it's highly unusual for a defense secretary to reach down at that level, the colonel level and the Navy captain level and withdraw people from the list. And there's no explanation for this.

[B]

As you go through their bios, Tom Are there red flags? Is there anything you can see that might be the reason?

[A]

Well, it's funny you mention that, because I have the names of six of them. Six of these officers. And get this. The. The Hill is trying to get the names of the other 18 officers. They didn't even know who these officers are.

[B]

Okay? So there's not like a list out there where you can. Okay, got it.

[A]

So I'm looking at one of these officers. They've commanded at various levels, worked in Legislative affairs in Capitol Hill. It was in Afghanistan with a Special Operations unit, Legion of Merit, Defense Meritorious Service Medal. Another one, you know, Iraq time in 2003. And 4. Distinguished graduate, master's degree, worked with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And I'm looking at some more here. Again, Iraq time. Okay, so distinguished combat veteran, and there's no indication here. And one more. There's an officer whose brother is also an officer and whose other brother is a senior officer in the military. So everyone's scratching their heads. And I talked to a friend of one of these officers, right? And this friend told me. He said, this officer is dumbfounded. He said, I've done 30 years in the military, you know, no blemish on my record. I don't know why my name was withdrawn from the list. Right.

[C]

And we should say, you know, Mary Louise, Tom and I have been looking into this. In order to be blocked or delayed a promotion, which is pretty uncommon, you have to have. There has to be a real reason, like an egregious, you know, something you've done. You're. You're under investigation, that kind of thing. And as far as we can tell, none of these people who have been recently blocked or delayed promotions or any kind of investigation into that.

[A]

That's absolutely right.

[B]

So we said lawmakers are asking questions about. I know y' all are asking questions about this. What does the Pentagon say when you say, why are these people not being promoted?

[A]

Well, back in March, when they pulled some of these officers from the list, I reached out to Sean Parnell. He's the Pentagon spokesman, and he said, quote, under Secretary Hegseth, military promotions are given to those who have earned them. Meritocracy, which reigns in this department, is apolitical and unbiased. But here's the thing we know about Secretary Hegseth. He has questioned officers in the past. Did this person get his job because of his ra? Did this female officer get it because of her gender? We're done with this DEI thing, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He's waging a war on Woke. He is talking.

[C]

Exactly. He's told us over and over again he is, quote, unquote, anti woke and anti dei. And it seems like he's using that mentality to think through these promotions. And like Tom said, at least for the six that we know that have been taken off the list, they do have the merit. Right?

[A]

No question.

[C]

So that response from Parnell doesn't make sense.

[B]

Okay, so we're talking here about officers who are not being promoted either being blocked or maybe delayed.

[A]

You know, the term they use is withdrawn. Withdrawn. It's not removed. If it's removed, then you're kind of done. If it's withdrawn, you can still get back on the list. But that's the term they use.

[B]

What about, I mean, set this against. There are also people who have just been flat out fired or forced out. I mean, famously, CQ Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, that was in Trump's second term. More recently, Kat, Randy George, who was army chief of Staff, he was forced out in April. I want to hear about that. But I want you all to listen to some of the questions that people on the Hill are asking. This is an exchange we found from April. Marilyn Strickland, Congresswoman Democrat of Washington.

[A]

So my question, Secretary, is this.

[B]

What specific national security risk, mission risk, or leadership concern did General George present that justified removing him in the middle of a conflict?

[A]

Or was he removed because he challenged

[B]

some decisions being made?

[A]

As I stated earlier, out of respect to these officers, I don't discuss the nature of the removal, but I would, I would ask an earnest question of you. Where does General George fall in the operational chain of command?

[B]

So I'm asking you, why did you fire him? Don't change.

[A]

You talked about, you talked about an operational moment. Where does General George fall in? No, it's a, you're on the House

[B]

Armed Services leadership concern.

[A]

What did he present that justified removing

[C]

him in the middle of a conflict?

[A]

Do you know where General George serves on the operational chain of command? So, ma', am, I'm asking you my

[B]

question one more time, sir. Don't try to flip. Okay, so you can hear in that exchange, they're going back and forth over whether the army chief of staff is in the operational chain of command, which he's not, Tom. But the question, why fire him? Was never answered.

[A]

Well, here's one thing I do know, that General George tried to reach Secretary Hegseth and basically said you should not remove these two black officers, these two female officers from the list. He never got that meeting with Secretary Hegseth and he was fired. But here's the thing. I think this is kind of the last straw with the members of Capitol Hill, because he is. Randy George was highly respected. He was turning the army around. He was getting rid of obsolete weapons systems. He was making a real push for drones, which were sort of the wave of the present. And again, highly respected. He was well regarded. And again, I think this is one of the reasons why, you see Congressman Pat Ryan and others basically say, listen, we want answers to why these people

[C]

were removed and Randy George was pushed out. Like Tom said, it was right after Hegseth took, I think it was four different officers off of this promotion list, two of whom were black, two of whom were women. And George spoke up against that, we're told. And he was just one in a long line of people that have been fired or pushed out by Hegseth since Hegseth came into office. We're compiling a list of that. We have a list of about 20 high ranking officials at this point. And many of them are black or women. Many of them are also white men, but they are white men who have had kind of differences with Hegseth over, over time, who have disagreed with him, who maybe don't agree with this anti woke, you know, anti DEI nature that. That Hegseth is pushing in the military.

[A]

And I asked Congressman Ryan, I said, you know, what do you think's going on here? And he said, I think there are layered reasons for all of this. He said, part of it is Hegseth wants total and anyone questioning him like Randy George, General George did over these. Pulling these folks off the promotion list. He said, anyone with a sliver of independence gets acts. And he said, clearly, if you look at the stats, there's a racial and gender element here as well.

[B]

Okay. A few things. One, I just. Before it disappears into the mists of the podcast transcripts, I just want to note drones as the wave of the present. That is something that I feel.

[A]

How do you like that?

[B]

Is that pretty good turn of phrase, which we will come back to, but two follow up questions. One, how do we know that General George was standing up for people he didn't want thrown off this list?

[A]

I know that for a fact. How? Talking to sources at the Pentagon.

[B]

Okay. Who are telling you that that was his opinion that he was voicing and that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think also General George was kind of dumbfounded for getting fired. He was like, wait a minute, I'm turning the army around.

[B]

Is there any appeals process here? Or can Pete Hegseth or any defense secretary for that matter, block people's promotions for whatever reason they want. Do they have to explain it?

[A]

Well, again, as Kat was saying, you can pull someone off the list if there's an active investigation, if there's clear element of wrongdoing. But yeah, he can do it. Right. And also, as we know, the officers serve at the pleasure of the president. Right. So the Hegseth or anyone can go to the president and say, hey, this guy's got to go.

[B]

I guess just to zoom out a little bit, this obviously matters hugely to the people in question. Do we know, is there a way to measure what effect it may or may not be having on morale, on operational readiness or performance?

[A]

There's no question it's having an effect on morale. People I talk with who are in the military or in the retired community say there's an element of fear. Now at the Pentagon, you don't want to raise your head, raise your hand, say anything against the policy, or even question it. So I think it has a problem with morale. And also Congressman Ryan said this could have an effect on recruiting as well. You know, if I'm a black officer, I just graduated from West Point. Do I want to spend my whole career here if someone's just going to grab me out of the blue and say, you're done and not give me a reason for that, or female at West Point or the Naval Academy? And also what's really troubling is some of these officials at the Pentagon are going through the social media posts of officers. And one officer I know he put on social media, basically the US should do more to help our Afghan allies. He was fired over that.

[B]

We're going to take a break. When we come back, more National Guard troops are headed to D.C. as we approach the nation's 250th anniversary. That's ahead on sources and methods from NPR. The world is a lot, but hearing

[C]

the right song at the right time

[A]

can make it all better. This week in the NPR Music Podcast, listeners tell us about the songs that help them hit reset, songs that lift

[B]

them up, change their outlook, or even

[A]

give their whole life a new direction. Listen on All Songs Considered in the NPR Music podcast.

[B]

We're back. If you forgot that the National Guard is still deployed in some US Cities, we wouldn't blame you. But. But Kat and Tom, the three of us see the troops constantly here in Washington. I passed a couple groups of them as I was leaving NPR headquarters and driving home last night. They're out patrolling on The National Mall. They're out on our streets. And they are in other cities, too. Memphis, New Orleans. Kat, you have done a lot of reporting on this in Memphis, for example. Why is the National Guard still patrolling US Cities?

[C]

Yeah, so, I mean, the deployments here in DC And Memphis and New Orleans, like you mentioned, are kind of these quieter deployments than we saw a lot of last year. You know, there were these big deployments that were very splashy L. A. That was this time last year. Exactly a year.

[B]

Yeah, we're at like one year anniversary.

[C]

Exactly. And that was 2,000 National Guard troops and the Marines deployed to the. The streets of Los Angeles. I'm sure you remember that there was a threat to deploy. You know, President Trump threatened to deploy the National Guard to Portland, Chicago, but those were deployments that were against the governor's wishes. You know, the governor controls the National Guard. And. And in California, in Oregon, in Illinois, those governors did not want their National Guard deployed, and President Trump did want to deploy them, so he federalized the National Guard, took control of them. And it's very, very unprecedented. That does not normally happen in America.

[B]

Whereas New Orleans, for example, is a Republican governor.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Got it.

[C]

Exactly. So in New Orleans and Memphis, those are Republican governors who raised their hands and said, hey, we'll take the help from the National Gu. And also here in D.C. you know, because of the unique nature of the city, Trump controls the National Guard here as president, so he can deploy the National Guard to the streets here. So that's why we have these deployments. And these deployments here in D.C. memphis, New Orleans have all been, in order to, quote, unquote, fight crime, which is also an interesting thing because troops have no arresting powers in these places, but they are doing these high visibility patrols like you talked about. I mean, me, you know, Tom, we all see them all the time, right? I see them on my. My street, in my neighborhood almost every day.

[B]

How, how, if the mission is fighting crime, are they fighting crime? Like, how is this working? Is it effective? What do we know?

[C]

I mean, that is a hard metric to measure. Right? Especially because, you know, all of these deployments haven't lasted a year yet. We don't really have the year on year data. But also in every single one of these cities, D.C. included, crime was already trending down. So crime is continuing to trend down. Crime is better, you know, in D.C. now than it was last year. But, you know, it's hard to say if it's because of the National Guard presence. Exactly. There has been at least one study that has come out about this, this was by the Niscanon center. It's a nonpartisan think tank here in D.C. they recently came out with a report just the other week looking specifically at this DC deployment, trying to figure out just that. And, you know, researchers took publicly available crime and policing data for the city. They adjusted it to specifically look at the National Guard deployment. And what they found is that the deployment itself has had very little to no effect on violent crime in the city. They did find that the presence of the guard produced one notable improvement, about a 24 reduction in opportunistic crimes like petty theft, vehicle break, INS, that kind of thing. I talked to an author of the study, Richard Hahn, and here's what he had to say about it.

[B]

You know, I think on balance, the National Guard's deployment is not a failure. You know, I think there's success in what they've done. But I guess the point that we try to make is, you know, compared

[C]

to what, you know, basically he made the point that you could get the same or even better or much better results for much less, simply through more, More focused policing.

[B]

Yeah, you said for much less. How much are these deployments costing and are we paying? We being US Taxpayers?

[C]

Yes. Let's look at the DC one specifically because that's the kind of easiest place to find the data for the money. Here in D.C. it's about $600 a day per troop per member of the National Guard. Those are numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. They put out an estimate last year looking into this. So $600 a day per member of the National Guard. Right now we have about 3,500 National Guard here. That's 600 more than we had, by the way. So if you multiply 600 by 3,500, that's about $2.2 million a day.

[B]

I'm so glad you're doing that math.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[C]

I did that math on a calculator before I came into the studio. I just want to be really clear,

[A]

if I could just quickly add, there's a political element here, of course, that all of these National Guard troops are coming from Republican led states.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

If you look at the stats and they're going to Democratic run cities. So part of this is President Trump and others saying, listen, the Democrats, you know, they can't run their cities. It's crime ridden. We have to send the Guard in to help them. That's a big part of this as well.

[C]

Yes, Certainly here in D.C. i think what you're talking about is that here in D.C. we have the D.C. national Guard, which are on the streets. But then There's, I think, 13 other states who have sent their National Guard here. So we have troops from Florida, Georgia, West Virginia, Tennessee, all kinds of. All of those are Republican states.

[A]

And Kat and I have talked about this. A lot of these Guard people who are coming to D.C. they tend to be police officers, prison guards, state police. So some of these states, as they increase the numbers, may have to juggle their own police forces or their prison guard forces to make it work when these guys are heading to D.C. or other cities.

[B]

Kat, you said there's 600 more National Guard in D.C. this week than there were last week. That's what ramping up to the 250th anniversary celebrations.

[C]

Yeah. So federal officials here announced, announced a couple weeks ago that there was going to be a quote, unquote, summer surge of law enforcement into the city, and that includes an additional 2500 National Guard troops. So there were already about 2500 here before that announcement. And now they've started sending more and more. We're going to be up to 5,000 National Guard troops here this summer. It's unclear when exactly that summer surge is going to end. That summer surge also comes with other federal law enforcement, including a doubling of HSI officers, which is a branch of ice. So that's worth keeping an eye on as well. But, yeah, so we'll have 5,000 National Guard troops here, which, if you do the math on that, is more than $3 million a day, then this will be costing.

[B]

So you just anticipated my next question, which is when does the summer surge end? Do they go home when it's back to school days in September? And I guess, I mean, what I'm really wondering about here is just we are now in D.C. people don't really bat an eye anymore. We're so used to seeing this constant presence of uniformed troops on American streets. What questions is that raising among people you talk to, either of you either who are serving or out and about, just in terms of normalizing a uniform presence on American streets?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's certainly the one of the concerns here. And I should note, Mary Louise, they are armed. They're not just uniformed. They're also armed with a handgun.

[B]

Yeah. You see it strapped to their thighs as they walk around often.

[C]

Exactly. And yeah, that is many of the constitutional scholars that I've talked to over the last 10 months that I've been watching this stuff have said that that is one of the big concerns here is what does it mean when we normalize the idea that armed uniformed troops are on city streets in America in non emerg emergency situations? What does that mean? And certainly here in D.C. i mean, there is a pushback here in D.C. i'm sure you've seen. There's signs that people hang up on street corners and stuff that say troops go home, you're not welcome here, this kind of stuff. So there is pushback. But I watch every day as troops walk through the park while we're all sitting there reading our books and hanging out on a nice sunny day and people don't bat an eye anymore. And it does kind of feel a little bit like, like the frog and the boiling pot of water. Right. This number of troops here in D.C. we started with 800, which I don't know if you even remember that, you know, we started with 800 back in August of last year. It slowly ticked up over time to now we're at 3,500. We'll be at 5,000 this summer. And it's unclear if that number is going to tick back down or if it's going to keep ticking up.

[A]

What we're told is this will continue right through the inaugural in what, two years from now, more than two years.

[B]

It may be in place through the

[A]

2028 elections, 2029, through that inaugural.

[B]

Who's saying that? Pentagon officials.

[A]

Pentagon officials. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. It hasn't been officially announced yet, but we've been hearing that the plan is to keep troops here in D.C. through Trump's entire term.

[A]

But you're right, it raises a question of, you know, it makes a place like D.C. or Memphis look like, you know, an autocratic government. You have these troops walking around, which is something you just never see in this country.

[C]

No. And certainly we've all been to other countries where you see that quite often. Right. And that's something that I think about a lot when I see that here in D.C. is this just isn't the America that I recognize.

[B]

Time for another quick break. When we come back, a drone rescue in the Middle East. Plus OSINT open source intelligence. That's ahead on Sources and METHODS from NPR are.

[C]

This is Eric Glass on this American life.

[B]

One that we like is a good mystery sometimes about really big things. But most times the little mysteries are the best.

[A]

Our lost and found is currently filled with pants. I don't know what I, I, I've

[B]

never seen this happen.

[A]

This is true. This is true.

[C]

Mysteries of every size.

[B]

Each week this American life Wherever you get your podcasts. We are back with Tom Bowman and Kat Lansdorf. Okay, Iran, where there is a ceasefire, a nominal ceasefire, because the US And Iran keep firing at each other this week. Tom, what's going on?

[A]

Well, President Trump is getting very frustrated. He wants Iran to come to the table or they are at the table. He wants a deal now, but a deal is elusive for him. And I think one of the big problems you're looking at it is.

[B]

But just. Sorry, just a ceasefire.

[A]

It's ridiculous. Of course not. I mean, they're shooting at each other. They took out a Apache helicopter. An Iranian drone ran into it, and these guys dropped into the water and were rescued by this seaborne drone, which was remarkable. But here's the thing. What does Iran want? Iran wants the blockade to be lit. They want some serious money, billions of dollars, and they're frozen, unfrozen. They want their assets to be unfrozen. They want billions of dollars. Trump is reluctant to do that until they start showing, you know, an interest in coming up with a nuclear deal. But that's going to take months, many months, if not longer. The Obama nuclear deal took about two years.

[B]

Okay, I just want to focus on this video that I couldn't stop watching. We mentioned The Apache helicopter. U.S. apache helicopter shot down. The two people in it are fine. This is the good news. They are fine because they were rescued by a sea drone. If people haven't seen what this thing looks like, you gotta go look at it.

[C]

Highly recommend you go.

[A]

It looks like a base shot. Yeah, right. It looks like it's 24ft. So it looks like a 24 foot sailboat without the sail. And it's called a 24 foot speedboat, basically. Right. And it can go 1,000 nautical miles and take 1,000 pounds on board. This company in Austin, Texas has made 300 of these things, Right? So, yeah, these drone, Shahad drone hits the Apache helicopter. Those guys are lucky to be alive. They drop into the water, they're bobbing in the water for a couple of hours and here comes this Corsair pulls up next to it. And I'm trying to get some information about this. It's like, well, did the guys know it was coming?

[B]

Exactly, yeah.

[C]

Like what? It looks like whale kind of like surfacing next to them. Right. And this thing can go 40 miles an hour too. It can go really fast.

[A]

So they would have their radios on and obviously a transponder so that you know where they are. But I'm just, I was talking to one of the company executives today or spokesperson and said, does this thing, like, pull up and say, hello, I'm from a friendly country, I come and visit? Does it say. And I said, is there food on board? Is it kind of like a grubhub that when you hop on, do you get water and snacks and everything? And they say, well, a lot of this is classified, we can't get into it. But this thing picks them up, takes them back to a warship, they get aboard the warship and then all of a sudden this helicopter takes them away. I'm told they're in stable condition, some minor injuries, and one thing is for certain, they'll never buy another beer.

[B]

They will be dining out on this story for the rest of their lives. I so want to talk to them about just what was going through their head as this thing pulled up alongside their thinking, like, do we get in or do we.

[C]

Right, like, what is this?

[A]

Hello, I am friendly, please get up forward.

[C]

And I mean, this is the first time that something like this has ever been done by the US Military too. So there's also an extremely novel thing, right? It was by. It was carried out by this Task Force 59, which is the Navy's first unmanned and artificial intelligence task force. It was created back in 2021. They're stationed in Bahrain, I believe, and the US began deploying it in the Middle east back in March when this war began. You know, it's all in line with the Pentagon's plans to expand this use of drones. And this is certainly an expansion of the use of drones.

[B]

The wave of the present, as we think.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

There we are. All right, on that note, let me steer us toward osint Open Source Intelligence, the not so secret yet telling details that we stumble across in our reporting. Bowman kicks off.

[A]

Well, we were talking about officers and now I learned from the Army Human Resources command back in May 26, they put out this notice saying, quote, the army is short captains through colonels and separation rates have increased over time. Headquarters of the army exit surveys and commanders state company grade officers are frustrated by a lack of stability, negative impacts of army life on their family, and lack of enjoyment or fulfillment. So that's a serious thing here. And I'm told the army, one of the things they're doing is trying to, you know, provide more stability for the captains in particular, there's something called the Captain's Career Course that once you finish that, you go back to your previous unit to have that kind of stability. But I'm also told that in the higher ranks One of the problems is, you know, Secretary Hegseth has stopped fellowships at places like the Kennedy School at Harvard, John Hopkins School for Advanced International Studies at Brookings Institution, basically saying they're woke. You know, it has nothing to do with your military career. And a lot of officers use these fellowships as a time to either have a family or spend more time with their family, especially if they have young kids. So I think that's one of the reasons you're seeing people voting with their feet.

[B]

Got it, Kat.

[C]

Well, something I've been thinking about a lot lately, quite honestly, I just was in Lebanon last month reporting there, and. And something I've been thinking about a lot lately as we're talking about this shaky ceasefire between the US And Iran. Is the also shaky ceasefire between Israel

[B]

and Hezbollah, where they are also shooting at each other?

[C]

Absolutely. And, you know, I was there last month, and I went all the way down south as far as I could possibly go. And I was standing on a hilltop in southern Lebanon looking out, actually, I was up there with a spokesperson for Hezbollah. And we were looking out over the hills at what is now Israeli occupied terr. We could see an Israeli flag flapping in the breeze. And I was asking this Hezbollah spokesperson, you know, what happens now? Like, look at that Israeli flag. Are you gonna, you know, let that stay here? And he said, we will do whatever it takes to get our land back. If that means it's through negotiations, then we can take that. But if we need to fight for our land back, we'll fight for our land back. I'm paraphrasing here, but he essentially said that. And, you know, that keeps going through my head because I think it's an example of just how many fronts there are in war right now. And also just, you know, it's not just about the US And Iran. Right. This has kind of opened a Pandora's box in the Middle east, and it's really hard to put that back in the box once it's been opened.

[B]

I'm gonna have that image in my head as I think about this and the headlines coming out of Lebanon now, that flag flying, and you up on a hill and thinking, where does this go?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm gonna take you to a very different place. This unusual gathering I attended the other day, it was in the Senate Mansfield Room, which is this beautiful old school paneled room inside the Capitol, very close to the Senate chamber. And the reason I was there was for a reception honoring Cindy McCain, Cindy McCain, who is stepping down as head of the world food program. Also, of course, the widow of John McCain, longtime Arizona Republican. And when I said it was an unusual gathering, it was not big. There were maybe 100 people there during the time that I was there, of whom a significant portion were sitting US senators coming and going from the chamber, like 20 or more, totally bipartisan. And they all stood one by one and paid tribute to Cindy McCain. It was very striking. You see both parties raising a glass. Democrats and Republicans, as we know, do not agree on much these days, but they were united in saying thank you. And Mrs. McCain, you didn't have to do this. You know, your family has already given so much to this country. You did not have to spend your golden years getting on a plane to Gaza or Afghanistan or Somalia or many of the places that I have interviewed her from when she's out and about trying to help desperately poor people get enough to eat. And it was touching. Her young grandson got up at some point during the remarks and stood next to her at her side and held her hand. And it all just felt maybe it was the setting with the paneling and the afternoon light, but it felt like this flashback to a time in Washington when elected politicians from both parties could go debate all kinds of things and disagree on everything it's possible to disagree about on the Senate floor, but could come together and be gracious and pay tribute to someone who is serve their country. And I, for one, found myself missing that time. All right. We've been speaking with NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman and also making her debut, NPR's Cat Lahnsdorf. Please come back. Brilliant. Awesome.

[C]

Thanks so much for having me.

[B]

Thanks. And before we go, we know you have specific tastes. That is why you're here. So whether you want the latest in politics, deep dive investigative reporting, maybe what's new in pop culture, whatever you want. We got a newsletter for it, NPR journalism tailored to your interests, right in your inbox. You can check out the full [e-mail] newsletters. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. And we are back next week with another episode of Sources and Methods from npr. The fatal shooting of a teenager at

[C]

a protest in Seattle has gone unsolved for six years. Years.

[A]

This is open. In your face. How are there no answers?

[B]

Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say they've never talked to police.

[A]

Did police ever call you?

[B]

Not once. Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new true crime series on the Embedded podcast from npr.