Sources & Methods — NPR

Episode: James Wolff was a spy. Now, he's writing about them

Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guest: "James Wolff" (Pseudonymous former British intelligence officer, now spy novelist)
Release Date: April 13, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Mary Louise Kelly interviews James Wolff, a pseudonymous former British intelligence officer turned acclaimed spy novelist. The focus is Wolff’s new book, Spies and Other Gods, his transition from espionage to fiction, the challenges of writing about intelligence work, and the complex interplay between secrecy, storytelling, and public perceptions of spy agencies. The conversation delves into both the personal toll of a career spent in secrecy and the reality-versus-myth of spycraft—often more confusing and ambiguous than popular imagination suggests.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Wolff’s Pseudonym and Anonymity

• Children’s Reactions: Even Wolff’s kids are confused and find it odd that their father can’t promote his work more openly in public.
  • Quote: “They feel proud on my behalf and so they'd like me to be a bit more front footed about publicity for the book… I often look with some envy at novelists in the States or novelists who were once intelligence officers and the way that they're able to be a little bit more open than we are in the UK.” (01:34, James Wolff)

2. The Bureaucracy of Secrecy: Manuscript Review

• British vs. American Process: In the UK, publication review for former intelligence staff is a lengthy, often opaque process—Wolff notes his latest novel took around 16 months for clearance.
  • Quote: “I send the manuscript in and then I wait and I wait and I wait, and then I will get back a long list of proposed redactions… it took something like 16 months for them to approve it.” (02:32, James Wolff)
• Legal vs. Suggested Cuts: Agencies often blur the line between legally required redactions and mere requests; sometimes the ask is more about caution than law.
  • Quote: “There are a whole host of other things that aren’t properly secret… but the spy agencies might think, well, we'd rather he didn't put that in… sometimes present stuff as a legal obligation, whereas, in fact, they're really just asking for a favor.” (03:06, 04:19, James Wolff)
• Tone of Redactor Correspondence: Wolff jokes about British restraint even in censorship—when censors are annoyed, “please” is dropped from their redaction requests.
  • Quote: “You know, you're in trouble when the pleas is missing. Is missing from the. From the email.” (05:46, James Wolff)
• Absurdities in Redactions: Occasionally, agencies ask him to cut details already published on their own websites, citing his “ethics counselor” example.
  • Quote: “They would say, you must remove this. And then I would say, well, it's on your website you boast about this.” (06:28, James Wolff)

3. Fiction’s Impact on Perception of Intelligence Work

• Depiction and Recruitment: While secrecy is paramount, agencies also worry about FICTION portraying them as “incompetent or lacking a moral compass,” which might damage public confidence and recruitment.
  • Quote: “Depictions of British spies as incompetent or lacking a moral compass eat away at the public’s confidence in organs of state that cannot speak up for themselves... maybe it could damage ability to recruit the best and brightest going forward.” (07:34, Mary Louise Kelly)
• John le Carré’s Legacy: Wolff cites Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 chief) and le Carré’s influence on institutional reputation.
  • Quote: “That is how a lot of people within MI6 thought about John Le Carre, that he portrayed an organization that was a bit shabby in moral terms and that this didn’t really do the service any favors.” (08:22, James Wolff)

4. Anatomy of a Spy Novel: “Spies and Other Gods”

a. Character Spotlight: Sir William Rintoul

• Aging intelligence chief struggling with memory and the aftereffects of lifelong secrecy.
  • Quote: “He’s at the tail end of a long and very successful career, but... suffering from what the book describes as a brain fog.” (12:01, James Wolff)
• Personal Cost: Sir William experiences personal regret for the distance his career put in his marriage.
  • Quote: “He developed a certain set of deceptive skills... and then found himself unconsciously using within his marriage as well.” (14:44, James Wolff)

b. Plot Elements

• The main operation tracks an Iranian assassin (“Caspian”) targeting Iranian dissidents in Europe—reflecting but not intended to mirror current headlines.
  • Quote: “When I wrote the book, I think no one was really interested in Iran… I’m much more interested in the psychology of spying…” (16:28, James Wolff)

c. The Reluctant Asset: Zach the Dentist

• A struggling, lonely dentist is drawn in as a pawn—a common real-world intelligence tactic, and a study in manipulation and vulnerability.
  • Quote: “Zach is... really someone who’s, in his own way, struggling with life... and he sees the brief glimmer of an opportunity to become involved in spying... as something that will... redeem him.” (17:50, James Wolff)

d. The True Confusion of Espionage

• Wolff and Kelly discuss how even insiders rarely get clear, definitive answers—intelligence work is often more ambiguous and confusing than outsiders believe.
  • Quote (reading from novel): “It’s possible to be confused about your confusion...” (19:54, James Wolff)
  • Reflection: “The truth is that it's frequently just as confusing on the inside as it is on the outside... spy operations are real head scratchers.” (20:28, James Wolff)

5. Crafting “British Intelligence” in Fiction

• Wolff avoids naming Sir William’s agency directly, to allow narrative flexibility (not limited by real agency remits), referring simply to “British Intelligence.”
  • Quote: “As a novelist, I’m a bit greedy… I just want to be able to portray an agency that does all of that rather than an agency that's limited to one aspect.” (22:11, James Wolff)

6. Where Next? Future Writing Plans

• Wolff wants to explore overlooked roles (“building escorts”) and is planning his next work around the intersection of intelligence agencies and the media—about how the spy world has gone public, cultivated PR strategies, and now interacts with journalists.
  • Quote: “What I want to write about next is the crossover between the spy agencies and media... the agencies have social media accounts, they publish books... that's the area I'm going to focus on next.” (23:18, James Wolff)

7. Parallels Between Reporting and Spycraft

• Reporting and intelligence gathering share skills—rapport, trust-building, pursuit of secrets—though ultimate aims differ.
  • Quote: “I think there's incredible overlap between the two professions... that ability to build rapport, to build relationships, to get secrets out of people, to build trust...” (25:09, James Wolff)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the nature of spy work:
  • “Spy operations are real head scratchers. Sometimes they begin in confusion and they end in doubt. And then a whole lot of stuff happens in the middle and, and it's not always entirely clear what the point of the whole thing was.” (00:18, James Wolff)
• On censorship style:
  • “You know you're in trouble when the please is missing from the email.” (05:46, James Wolff)
• On intelligence fiction and public trust:
  • “Depictions of British spies as incompetent or lacking a moral compass eat away at the public's confidence in organs of state that cannot speak up for themselves.” (07:34, Mary Louise Kelly)
• On the confusion of the spy world:
  • “How it's possible to be confused about your confusion, to be unsure whether you're confused about the right things, to suspect that your confusion is a wispy simulacrum of some deeper confusion that you haven't yet experienced but lies just around the corner...” (19:54, from the novel, read by James Wolff)
• On the link between journalists and spies:
  • “I think there's incredible overlap between the two professions... that ability to build rapport, to build relationships, to get secrets out of people, to build trust…” (25:09, James Wolff)

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• 01:29–08:22: Insider view on post-service secrecy, redaction, and what’s at stake for both state and author.
• 12:01–15:23: Deep-dive into Sir William’s character and the personal impact of a life spent undercover.
• 19:54–21:45: Exploration of the psychological labyrinth of espionage; confusion as a feature, not a bug, in the intelligence world.
• 23:18–24:27: James Wolff’s insights into future writing, especially how the intelligence world now openly courts the media.

Summary

This episode offers a rare inside look at the lived realities of a modern spy turned storyteller. James Wolff shares both the frustrations of writing under official scrutiny and the subtleties of rendering the intelligence world in fiction—where secrecy, ambiguity, and psychological complexity matter more than gadgets or car chases. The episode balances personal anecdote, institutional critique, and literary insight, revealing why “truth” in the spy world is as elusive on the inside as it is from the outside.

For listeners curious about the intersections of secrecy, storytelling, and the very human cost of undercover work—as well as the nuts and bolts (and absurdities) of writing “spy novels” as a real ex-spook—this conversation is as revealing as it can be.