Peace through strength? America first? Is there a Trump doctrine?

Summary

Sources & Methods – "Peace through strength? America first? Is there a Trump doctrine?"

Podcast: Sources & Methods (NPR)
Host: Sacha Pfeiffer (in for Mary Louise Kelly)
Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates what, if anything, constitutes a "Trump Doctrine" in President Trump's second term, particularly regarding his unpredictable approach to foreign policy. NPR's correspondents dissect new military initiatives, sudden about-faces with former adversaries, and the looming threat of renewed nuclear arms testing—all through the lens of national security and American global influence.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Defining Trump's Foreign Policy: Old Themes Meet New Tactics

• Two Tracks of Trump’s Approach

  • Continuation of First-Term Tactics:
    Greg Myre highlights enduring themes: tariffs, deportation, border security, skepticism toward alliances, and preference for leader-to-leader deals. Trump often aims for “quick deals rather than long-term solutions.” ([01:40])
  • A Shift Toward Military Action:
    Trump, traditionally vocal about ending "endless wars," has increased reliance on U.S. airpower. Notable interventions:
    • Prolonged airstrikes on Yemen ([01:40])
    • Joint U.S.-Israeli airstrike on Iran in June
    • Strikes on Venezuelan boats amid major military buildup ([02:57])
    • No U.S. ground troops involved—a notable “red line” he hasn’t crossed ([03:40])

• Unpredictability as a Tool
  Trump's willingness to abruptly pivot—“talking tough one day…offering concessions the next” ([05:30])—has kept both allies and adversaries on edge.

Notable Quote:

“He’s interested in quick deals rather than long-term solutions.”
— Greg Myre ([01:40])

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2. Military Buildup in the Caribbean and Venezuela

• Scale of the Build-up
  Recent military action in the region is “the largest in the region in decades” ([04:31]). Deployment includes the Gerald Ford aircraft carrier, 15,000 U.S. troops, and aggressive targeting of alleged drug boats—over 75 deaths reported.
• Ambiguity of Motives
  The scale “goes far beyond what would be required for counter-narcotics actions,” hinting at the possibility of further escalation.

Notable Quote:

“This is a much larger, much more powerful force than you would need to deal with small boats believed to be carrying drugs. And we still don't know how this is going to go.”
— Greg Myre ([04:53])

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3. Party Dynamics: Republican Support and Dissent

• Republican Deference, Quiet Worry Most Republicans “still defer to Trump,” but a few, like Rand Paul and Lisa Murkowski, have voiced opposition, especially regarding Venezuela. ([07:34])
• Private Concerns Many GOP members express private anxiety over the unpredictability of Trump’s escalations but remain publicly supportive.

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4. Diplomacy Shifts: The Syria Pivot

• A Stunning Reversal Trump’s White House meeting with new Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara—a former al Qaeda leader with a U.S. bounty—marks a seismic shift ([10:02]). Previously, the administration was dismissive: “Syria’s a mess. We’re not going to get involved there.”
  • U.S. sanctions have been lifted.
  • Trump welcomed Al Shara both at the UN and in the Oval Office, even spraying him with Trump-branded cologne—a first for any president.
• Motivations and Risks The move reflects both Trump’s affection for “strong leaders” and his eagerness for splashy deals, even with unsavory partners.

Notable Moment:

“Trump sprayed his own cologne on Alshara’s cheek and asked him how many wives he had…I truly believe this is the first time a US President has ever spritzed a foreign leader with his own self-branded cologne.”
— Greg Myre ([10:56])

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5. Deal-making with Autocrats: Pattern or Principle?

• Trump’s Admiration for Strength
  Pattern continues with leaders like Putin and new partners in Central Asia, including Kazakhstan joining the Abraham Accords ([13:01]). Engagement with Belarus brings tangible results, such as freeing political prisoners.
• Transactional Engagement Trump's view: talking to autocrats brings “deals for the U.S. and also create some good.” ([13:31])

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6. A New Nuclear Arms Race?

• Trump Advocates Resumed Testing Publicly proposes U.S. nuclear testing resumption—a first since 1992—responding to Russian weapons tests. ([15:55])
• Russian Response: Conditional Threats Kremlin officials signal willingness to resume testing if the U.S. does, echoing the doctrine of “assured mutual destruction.” ([16:26])
• Underlying Strategy
  Charles Maynes posits Trump “just wants a deal” on Ukraine, not a “just peace,” and uses nuclear threats as bargaining leverage.
• Expiration of Treaties The New START treaty is set to expire in 2026, prompting uncertainty about future arms control ([19:29]).

Notable Quotes:

“If they're going to test, I guess we have to test.”
— Greg Myre, quoting Trump ([16:08])

“From the Russian perspective, this is something that restores the idea of assured mutual destruction. So fun stuff.”
— Charles Maynes ([17:44])

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7. Open Source Intelligence: Reports from the Field

• Putin’s Security Theater ([22:12]) New investigation reveals Putin's use of duplicate offices to obscure his location, discernible only by “small discrepancies in TV footage—a door handle, a desk ornament.”
• Historical Parallels: 50 Years since the Church Committee ([23:11]) The US’s checkered history with assassination plots against foreign leaders looms large as current U.S. policy toward Venezuela evokes echoes of the past.

“History may not repeat itself, but it often rhymes.”
— Greg Myre ([24:19])

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8. Human Moments

• Subversive Solidarity in the Courts
  A light aside on the acquittal of a D.C. man for throwing a sandwich at a federal officer—some jurors wore pink sweaters in solidarity with the defendant, who’d worn pink to court. Post-verdict, his lawyer emphasized: “Dissent is legal in this country.” ([24:24])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:10] – Introducing Trump’s evolving foreign policy
• [03:08] – Contradiction between Trump’s campaign promises and current actions
• [04:31] – Details on the military buildup off Venezuela
• [07:16] – GOP internal reactions and dissent
• [10:02] – The White House meets Syria’s new president
• [12:46] – Trump’s preference for “strong leaders”
• [15:55] – Nuclear arms testing and the specter of a new arms race
• [19:29] – Treaty expirations and global nuclear negotiations
• [22:12] – OSINT: Putin’s elaborate security measures
• [23:11] – 50th anniversary of the Church Committee and historical echoes
• [24:24] – A quirky legal story illustrating “dissent is legal”

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Memorable Quotes

• “He’s interested in quick deals rather than long-term solutions.” (Greg Myre, [01:40])
• “This is a much larger, much more powerful force than you would need to deal with small boats believed to be carrying drugs.” (Greg Myre, [04:53])
• “Trump sprayed his own cologne on Alshara’s cheek and asked him how many wives he had…I truly believe this is the first time a US President has ever spritzed a foreign leader with his own self-branded cologne.” (Greg Myre, [10:56])
• “History may not repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” (Greg Myre, [24:19])
• “Dissent is legal in this country.” (Sabrina Shroff, quoted by Sacha Pfeiffer, [24:24])

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Conclusion

The episode paints Trump’s foreign policy as bold, personalized, often contradictory, and deeply reliant on spectacle and unpredictability—from deploying massive military force to cozying up to strongmen (whether autocrats or former enemies) and flirting with renewed nuclear arms tests. While some wins are claimed, especially in the Middle East, the long-term impact and sustainability of these approaches—especially as trust in traditional alliances wanes and dangerous precedents are set—are left open for debate.

The hosts and correspondents maintain a sober, slightly wry tone throughout, narrating the week's events as simultaneously historic, bizarre, and deeply consequential.

Transcript

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[Greg Myre]

This is the first time a US President has ever spritzed a foreign leader with his own self branded cologne.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Until last week, in the eyes of the US Government, the leader, Syria, was a designated terrorist. This week, he joined President Trump in the Oval Office. Trump's unpredictable and erratic approach to foreign policy has delivered some successes, but is it helping or hurting the world order? This is Sources and Methods from npr. I'm Sacha Pfeiffer in for Mary Louise Kelley. Every Thursday on this podcast, we look at some of the week's biggest national security stories with NPR reporters who are out covering them this week. Charles Mains, our Moscow bureau chief. Welcome back, Charles.

[Charles Maynes]

Good to be with you.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

And Greg Myrey, who covers national security with a focus on the spy beat. Hi, Greg.

[Greg Myre]

Hi, Sasha.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

And as we tape this, it is 11:30am on the east coast and 7:30pm in Moscow. So we will get eventually to the meeting between Trump and the president of Syria. But let's start with Trump's foreign policy approach. Greg, in your job, you have thought and reported on this a lot. Trump has described his foreign policy in a lot of different ways. We've heard America first, we've heard peace through strength. Now, about 10 months into his second term, how would you, Greg, summarize his approach to foreign policy?

[Greg Myre]

Well, I think we've seen two somewhat separate tracks here. At one level, we're seeing really an extension of his first term, and this would include tariffs, deportation of illegal immigrants, border issues. He criticizes allies and alliances that have been long standing for the US Shown little interest in traditional diplomacy. He likes to speak one on one with leaders. He remains on pretty friendly terms with some authoritarian leaders. And as one person put it to me, he's interested in quick deals rather than long term solutions. So that's pretty familiar ground. But there's also a second track, and that's where he's been doing things differently, especially for someone who's been talking about America first for so long. He's been much more willing to turn to the military in his second term here, three times already in significant ways. First were these airstrikes on Yemen, which went on for almost two months before it was sort of abruptly called off. He took part in an airstrike on Iran in conjunction with Israel back in June. And now what we're seeing Most recently is these attacks on boats allegedly carrying narcotics in the Caribbean and the Pacific off the coast of Venezuela. And this huge US Military buildup and a lot of talk about the possibility of US Military action in Venezuela.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

And, Greg, what's been surprising about that for many of Trump's supporters is that in his first term at least, he campaigned hard to bring what he called endless wars to a close out of.

[Charles Maynes]

The endless wars that have defined Hillary Clinton.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

So reconcile that for us, that campaign pledge with what we're seeing play out.

[Greg Myre]

Yeah, you really can't. I mean, you know, he inherited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and moved to get them out the first term. He did not move to get the US Involved in any open ended military conflicts. So you really can't square that with the things he's been saying really, since he emerged as a candidate way back in 2015. Now, one thing I will note here is the emphasis this time around is on air power in Yemen, in Iran and off the coast of Venezuela as well, not ground troops. These airstrikes can be launched, they can be carried out over a period of time, and then they could be called off at a moment's notice. And the relative danger, there's never a zero risk, but the relative danger to these US Forces is pretty small. It's not facing, it's not heavily contested. There haven't been any mishaps or any US Casualties so far. But ground troops takes you into a whole nother realm. And this still seems to be a red line that Trump hasn't crossed. And I think it's an important factor. As we look at Venezuela, we don't know what the plan is there, but the US keeps hitting these boats. We're talking about 19 boats, more than 75 dead at this point. And this military buildup continues. It's really the largest in the region in decades. The world's largest aircraft carrier, the Gerald Ford, has now moved into the region. There are about 15,000 U.S. troops in the region, roughly half on ships and half on land in Puerto Rico. This is a much larger, much more powerful force than you would need to deal with small boats believed to be carrying drugs. And we still don't know how this is going to go. But this buildup is really something we haven't seen in the region for decades.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Greg, given everything you've just described, especially this buildup of military might off the coast of Venezuela, even if it ultimately ends up being largely a threat, how would you so far sum up the guiding principle of Trump's foreign policy?

[Greg Myre]

It's very hard to wrap it into one principle because, like Trump often does, he's moving in multiple directions. It's certainly been a more active foreign policy than you might have expected. And again, the way he's looked tough, he's been tough by using the US Military in several instances. So I think one day he's talking tough with a country, the next day he's offering concessions. So it is this unpredictable moving in different directions, turning more to the military than you might have expected.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Although that unpredictability, sort of perhaps intentionally keeping countries off kilter has gotten him some successes.

[Greg Myre]

Yeah, absolutely. One is in the Middle east, where he's been behind the ceasefire between the Israelis and the Palestinians, in which he still actively involved in. The other, where he's been less successful but deeply involved in, has been Russia, Ukraine.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Charles Mainnes, would you talk about that?

[Charles Maynes]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think you've seen Trump certainly, you know, another idea kind of framing his foreign policy is this idea of chasing peace deals across the globe where he thinks he can make a difference sometimes, I think, coming in later in the process to claim credit for it. But with Russia and Ukraine, you know, he came to office saying he could resolve this conflict in one day. That hasn't been the case. He spent sort of months essentially engaging with Vladimir Putin and berating the Ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelensky. That seems to have shifted recently, making comments that, in fact, he thought that Ukraine could take back territory gained by Russia. But fundamentally, this has been his attempt to bring both sides to the table. It hasn't worked. He seems to have stepped away from it for now. But I think nobody thinks that he's completely forgotten about the war in Ukraine. I think he sees it as part of his foreign policy achievements.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Trump still maintains quite tight control over his party. They, in general, do what he wants them to do. But there are some members who are not thrilled with Trump's surprising focus on foreign policy. How would you say this is sitting overall with the party? Who are the defectors? The people speaking out?

[Greg Myre]

Yeah. So the Republicans are still deferring to Trump on this, by and large, but you are seeing some people speaking out in the Senate. You saw Rand Paul speak out. He's almost always against foreign intervention by the US There was a proposal that said Trump couldn't take military action in Venezuela without approval by Congress. Only two Republicans, Rand Paul and Lisa Murkowski from Alaska, voted against that. So the effort failed. Trump is not, in effect, blocked from doing that, but. So you're seeing a couple voices on the Republican side, and it seems privately many are voicing concern exactly about what Trump is doing. How far is this going to go? But they've still been deferential so far.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

We're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to talk about that Oval Office meeting between President Trump and the Syrian president. That's ahead on Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Let's shift to something quite notable that happened this week, and that's the Oval Office meeting with the president of Syria. Greg, why was that meeting so significant?

[Greg Myre]

Boy, so many reasons. I mean, my head almost exploded just the mere fact that this meeting took place. This is the Syrian leader Ahmed Al Shara. He took over after Bashar Assad fled last December. He was a former al Qaeda leader in the region. There was a $10 million bounty on his head, so it didn't seem like the US Was going to embrace him when he took over. In fact, I was in Syria in January and February of this year, and Trump was asked about what he was going to do in Syria, and he was absolutely dismissive. He said, ugh, Syria's a mess. We're not going to get involved there. They got enough messes over there. And all these Syrians would come up, up to me and say, you know, when will sanctions be lifted? When can we have a normal relationship with the U.S. you know, I didn't want to burst their bubble But I didn't expect this administration to be taking any real actions. But lo and behold, the Trump administration has lifted sanctions. Trump met with Al Shar when he traveled to the Middle East. He met with him at the United nations recently, and now he's hosted him in the White House. And perhaps even more remarkable, Trump sprayed his own cologne on Alshara's cheek and asked him how many wives he had. I've done a little research and I truly believe this is the first time a US President has ever spritzed a foreign leader with his own self branded cologne. Still checking, but that's what it looks like.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Greg, this seems like such an about face. I'm wondering what you make of it.

[Greg Myre]

Yeah, I mean, Trump has had a number of successes in the Middle east and that most people did not expect. Again, in the first term, it was the Abraham Accords between Israel and a number of Muslim countries. Now it's the ceasefire between the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's business deals, economic deals, and again with Syria. Somebody got to Trump and told him this is something he should do and he's embraced it. Syria is still a broken country after more than a decade of civil war. It needs massive amounts of money. It doesn't have resources, it doesn't have oil. It's not something that would seemingly appeal to Trump like the wealthy Gulf Arab states, but he's very much embraced it. And it is a moment when the Middle east has changed. After these wars of the past two years. Israel has dealt heavy blows to Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran. There is a moment where there's a possibility of changes in the Middle East. Syria is part of that, and the Trump administration is acting to try to exploit that.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

We often hear Trump talk about people in terms of who's strong and who's weak. He certainly likes strength. He's praised the Syrian president as being, in his words, a very strong leader. Charles, why do you think he sees things through that lens?

[Charles Maynes]

Well, certainly you've seen this attraction that Trump has for Vladimir Putin going back to his first term. He seems to admire the power that Putin has assumed in Russia, the super presidency that he has there. And it's an autocratic state. So once again we've seen seems to be, in a way, even as he's engaged on the Ukraine issue. You know, Trump has done a lot of things, but he has not really directly criticized Putin. He's talked about his frustration, but there always seems to be a kind of a reluctance to take this, the relationship and spoil it in any way. I think more regionally. It's interesting also to see that Trump is attracted to some of these Central Asian autocrats. They were also in Washington this week. He's been trying to pull them into some of his other kind of diplomatic gambits, like the Abraham Accords. We have Kazakhstan now joining apparently to the Abraham Accords. And so generally speaking, throughout the former post Soviet world, including with Alexander Lukashenko in Belarus, we've seen this engagement by Trump with these autocrats. And he seems to think that by talking with them, he can get deals for the US and also create some good. For example, in Belarus, he's managed to get some political prisoners out of jail in recent weeks and recent months and signaled that he intends to keep doing so.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

All right. Let's take another short break. And when we get back, we're going to stick with Russia and talk about the issue that will likely test President Trump's approach to foreign policy, that is a possible new nuclear arms race. That's ahead on Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Sacha Pfeiffer]

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[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Are we heading into an arms race? Last month, Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One that after more than 30 years, he wants to begin testing nuclear weapons.

[Charles Maynes]

You know, we have more than anybody. When I see them testing, I say.

[Greg Myre]

Well, if they're going to test, I guess we have to test, he announced.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

On Trump Truth social that he has instructed the Defense Department to start testing immediately. Now, we should say that Trump's energy secretary later walked that back a little. But Charles, how did Russia respond to hearing that?

[Charles Maynes]

Well, Russia said it would consider resuming nuclear tests if other countries do the same. Hint, hint, us. Now, the Kremlin spokesman today clarified that Putin gave an order not to begin preparations for a test, but to gather information, examine the advisability of such preparations. So a bit of a mealy mouthed kind of way of responding to Trump, but essentially it comes down to the fact that they say if the US does it, we will too.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

And has Putin himself taken any actions or made any comment?

[Charles Maynes]

He has not. But what Putin has done is carry out tests of nuclear capable weapons, including two this month that clearly got Trump's attention and seemed to have prompted this decision to call for resumed nuclear testing by the US One of these weapons, of the Russian weapons is Boroviznik. This is a nuclear capable and nuclear powered intercontinental missile which can fly essentially endlessly waiting to hit a target. The other is called Poseidon. It's a nuclear powered mega torpedo, really, conceived during the early days of the Cold War as a way to swamp enemy coastal cities with nuclear tsunamis. It kind of parks on the outside of the coastline. Now, both Putin claims are invincible and they're important because they come with this idea that Russia could retaliate against any enemy no matter how long it took and even if Moscow, say, was destroyed by a nuclear attack. So from the Russian perspective, this is something that restores the idea of assured mutual destruction. So fun stuff.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

I'm wondering, Charles, what you consider Trump's overall game plan to be here. Because when you look at the sanctions on Russia's oil industry and now this threat to begin testing nuclear weapons, he's both trying to end the war in Ukraine while seeming to be provoking Putin. So what do you consider the long term strategy?

[Charles Maynes]

Well, I think the sense here is that Trump is less interested in the details on Ukraine. He just wants a deal. So the goal is peace, but not so much a just peace. I think when you talk about the use of nuclear weapons, I think it's important to point out that Putin's used nukes as essentially a brush back pitch. If I can use a baseball analogy that goes back to the Biden years, every time the US Starts to talk about providing long range weapons to Kyiv, Putin reminds that Russia has this nuclear might. Now, a lot of people would say this is posturing or threats that are not serious, but they are effective to a certain degree. We saw Biden being very, very cautious about some of the decisions he made providing Ukraine with weapons. And Trump, even recently, he was flirting with the ide of giving Ukraine tomahawks. But you come back to it and you think about Trump, and he's always voiced this concern about provoking World War three with Russia. And so that seems to have worked again.

[Greg Myre]

And I'll just echo what Charles said. I agree this may just be posturing here. The US last tested a nuclear weapon in 1992. In the 21st century, no country has conducted a nuclearan actual nuclear explosion test, aside from North Korea. So it may just be posturing here. It would be quite significant if the U.S. russia, or anybody else did carry out an actual nuclear test.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

The Comprehensive Nuclear Ban Treaty expires next February. February 2026. If the Trump administration breaks from observing that, what is likely or what possibly could happen next?

[Charles Maynes]

Well, I think it's important to point out that the New START treaty, as you say, it sunsets in early 2026. Vladimir Putin has suggested that the two sides observe it for another year to give time to negotiators. It's not quite an ext. They're not offering that. They're saying, let's just both observe this, and if we both do, then we can give us some time to actually work out a new deal. But fundamentally, the problem from the US Perspective has always been that they say, look, it's great to have this sort of Cold War treaty with Russia, but there are new powers that have nuclear weapons, including China. And so they're looking to include China in any future deal that might come forward. And that's a big question mark.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Charles, do you have a perspective from your long time covering Russia and Putin of what Putin's nuclear ambitions are?

[Charles Maynes]

You know, I think Putin sees Russia's nuclear arsenal as evidence of Russia's status as a reigning superpower, not something in the past, but in the presence. And in that way, you know, he's brandished them to turn back the clock on the outcome of the Cold War. It's also important to point out that these new weapons we're talking about aren't entirely new. Back in 2018, Putin gave a speech before the Federation Council here in Moscow in which he said that Russia was launching these new weapons in response to the US Pulling out of key nuclear arms agreements over Moscow's objections. They showed sort of digitized kind of video game components, even showing warheads landing on what looked like Florida at the time. Putin had a Famous line. He said, no one listened to us then, so listen to us now. Well, I think that today that that line still resonates. You know, Putin is using Russia's nuclear weapons to not only rattle the US but to force Trump to engage and force him to listen, despite their disagreements over Ukraine. But it's also important to point that he's not just using threats. As you noted, that New Start treaty sunsets in early 2026. This is the Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty. You know, Putin has said let's observe it for another year. They're not offering to extend it per se, but said say let's both observe it for another year. It'll give our negotiators time to talk, meet and hash out a new agreement.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Let's wrap up today, as we always do, with OSINT Open Source Intelligence. These are the not so secret yet telling details that we may have come across in our reporting. Charles, what do you have for us this week?

[Charles Maynes]

Well, there have been long rumors about Putin's security and the precautions he takes. Everything from body doubles to decoy, planes and cars, food tasters. He'll even have governors, for example, dress identically on certain days so that the Kremlin can pretend an interview, say, recorded on Tuesday was actually recorded on, say, Thursday. Well, there's a new investigation by Sistema. This is a Russian investigative group tied with Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, that makes the case. He also uses duplicate offices, three of them in fact, one outside of Moscow, one down in the southern resort city of Sochi, and another in Valdai, that's a wooded area halfway to St. Petersburg from Moscow. And all this is designed to disguise his location. The. The systemic journalists essentially managed to find this out by looking at small discrepancies in television footage in the office layout. So it's maybe a door handle, a desk ornament. So, as always, it's the details that matter, Right?

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

A close eye pays off. And, Greg, yours.

[Greg Myre]

Yeah. An email popped into my inbox this week reminding me it's the 50th anniversary soon of a report by the Church Committee. Now, this was a Senate committee headed by Idaho Senator Frank Church, and their report was entitled Alleged Assassination Plots Involving Foreign Leaders. This was a huge deal when it came out in 1975. The initial report looked at five instances where the US or more specifically the CIA, was allegedly involved directly or indirectly, in alleged assassinations or attempted assassinations in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Three of the five cases that they were looking at were in Latin America, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Chile. And this led to a whole bunch of reforms, including a ban on US assassination of foreign leaders. And now this 50th anniversary comes at a time when there's a lot of talk about the possibility of the US Wanting to overthrow another Latin American leader, Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro. Want to stress we don't know what the Trump administration is planning, but this would certainly seem to fall into the category of history may not repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

I want to end with the case of the DC man who is facing federal criminal charges for thriving throwing a subway sandwich at a federal officer. I was very interested in this case because he had a federal public defender who I know her name is Sabrina Shroff. I had done a story about a young man in Minnesota who snuck away and joined isis, ended up going to prison. This lawyer often takes unpopular cases like that. She had also represented another man who joined isis. Any case Sabrina Shroff ended up and other lawyers for this man ended up winning that case, he was acquitted. The sandwich thrower. One noteworthy thing, as reported by NPR's Kerry Johnson, is that some of the jurors in the room were wearing pink sweaters, presumably in solidarity with the defendant, because he had been wearing pink shirts when he threw that sandwich. And he was acquitted. And the lawyer, Sabrina Shroff, emphasized later that dissent is legal in this country. I've been speaking with NPR national security correspondent Greg Myhrey and also with NPR Moscow bureau chief Charles Maines. Greg and Charles, thanks to both, both of you.

[Greg Myre]

Thank you, Sasha, been a pleasure.

[Charles Maynes]

Hey, thank you.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

And a reminder that you can email us with your feedback and questions at sources and methods, all1wordpr.org we can't always reply to your notes, but we do read them and we appreciate you writing. And before we go, a special thank you to our NPR supporters who hear each episode without sponsor messages and can access our complete archive. If that's you, be sure you're taking advantage of benefits from other NPR shows, too, like sponsored free listening, bonus episodes and more details on all of [e-mail] I'm Sascha Pfeiffer. We're back next week with another episode of Sources and methods from NPR.

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