Podcast Summary: Sources & Methods (NPR)

Episode: 'Persons of no interest:' embassy wives become spies in new thriller
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guests: Haley Lu Richardson (Actor), David Iserson (Showrunner/Creator)
Release Date: February 10, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a spirited conversation about the new Peacock TV series Ponies, which centers on two embassy wives-turned-undercover CIA operatives in Cold War Moscow. Stepping aside from the usual heavy national security headlines, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into the show's origins, spy themes, character development, and the fresh perspective female protagonists bring to espionage storytelling. Joined by showrunner David Iserson and lead actress Haley Lu Richardson (who plays Twyla), the discussion examines both the creative and historical aspects of portraying female spies of "no interest," and how women's underestimated roles can be their greatest advantage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Ponies" Concept and the Unsuspected Spy

• Definition of "Ponies": The term in the series refers to "Persons of No Interest,” meaning women considered too unremarkable to be spies—which becomes their cover.
  • “I'm Mary Louise Kelly and this is Sources and Methods from npr. This episode is a little lighter than our usual fare. [...] Today we're diving into the new TV series Ponies, which actually has a lot to say about the national security world.” (01:00)
• Inversion of Spy Expectations: The protagonists leverage the low expectations placed on them as women to become effective operatives.
• Strengths Rooted in Weakness: Richardson highlights how her character’s supposed weaknesses—boldness, lack of inhibition—turn into unique assets for espionage.
  • “Every strength overplayed is a weakness, which also means that every weakness is rooted in a strength in a way.” – Haley Lu Richardson (02:14)

2. Character Development: Twyla

• Characterization: Twyla is portrayed as fearless, loud, and uninhibited, but also deeply shaped by trauma and isolation.
• Character Arc: Through her partnership with Bea and entering the espionage world, Twyla learns to harness her instincts and become a more effective, if unconventional, spy.
• Acting Approach: Richardson relates to Twyla personally, focusing more on the emotional core than on "playing a spy."
  • “I really didn't like, prepare for or think about the spy element of it all beyond what Twyla was experiencing in every moment.” – Haley Lu Richardson (05:01)

3. Setting and Production: Cold War Moscow

• Why the 1970s Moscow setting? Iserson’s fascination with the era's intense atmosphere and visual aesthetic drove the choice, aiming for both accuracy and dramatic flair.
  • “There’s an aesthetic to it and this very heightened feeling of we are at the brink of the end of the world.” – David Iserson (05:46)
• Research Methods: The team relied on period movies, archival photos, and first-person accounts from people who lived in Soviet cities.
• Artistic License: Real locations in Budapest doubled for Moscow. The visual style deliberately mixed accuracy with a more colorful, “maximalist” interpretation.
  • “I don't think our embassy is accurate to what the embassy looked like. [...] We tried to embrace […] what a very heightened 70s office looked like.” – David Iserson (06:50)

4. Realism vs. Drama: Spycraft and Tradecraft

• Depiction of Spycraft: While subverting exaggerated spy tropes, much tradecraft in the show is rooted in documented tactics. Some elements (like advanced videotape technology) are invented for drama.
  • “The spy craft…is either based on real research that we found or the videotape technology, which is like the Big MacGuffin of the season, you know, that isn't based on anything.” – David Iserson (16:38)
• Avoiding Clichés: The creators aimed to balance authenticity and entertainment while acknowledging that some clichés exist because they really happened.

5. Portraying the KGB Villain: Andre

• Motivation & Complexity: Andre, the main KGB antagonist, is ambitious and self-serving but designed with more depth than a stock villain.
  • “He is a villain, but he is also a villain who has a. An arc that is not fully dissimilar from Bea and Twyla in that he is trying to take control of his life…” – David Iserson (10:56)
• Visual and emotional inspiration: The character’s look echoes David Bowie, adding an androgynous quality that complicates his interactions with the protagonists.

6. Buddy Dynamic and the Power of Women Working Together

• Buddy Story Core: At its heart, Ponies is a story about friendship and partnership in dangerous circumstances.
  • “This show is. It's a total Cold War spy drama. It's also a buddy story...” – Mary Louise Kelly (12:54)
• Complementary Skills: One lead is fearless ("like a bull"), the other fluent in Russian—neither could succeed alone, but together they are formidable.
• Untrained, but Unafraid: The lack of conventional spy training is played both for humor and dramatic possibility, grounded in historical precedent. (The real CIA tried many unorthodox methods in Moscow.)
  • “The CIA in Moscow in this era wasn't successful...so they were willing to try unusual things. And some of those things fell into a little bit of absurdity.” – David Iserson (18:12)

7. Representation, Gender, and Subversion of Expectations

• Challenging Gender Roles: The episode explores the value of "untraditional" skills and the misperceptions about what women can contribute to leadership or espionage.
  • “This whole like wild concept that something that's untraditional or never been done before could actually be valuable.” – Haley Lu Richardson (21:11)
• Personal Anecdote: Richardson shares a story about a date with a man who thought women couldn’t be president, using it as a real-world counterpoint to the show's themes.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On what makes a good spy:
  “People only look at us if they want to us or marry us, and that's it. So nobody would ever think that two people like us would be spies.” – Haley Lou Richardson (00:17)
• Defining the show's conceit:
  “What makes a good spy? Being able to blend in easily. Nerves of steel. Of that list, the lead characters possess just one. And actually, that's debatable.” – Mary Louise Kelly (00:36)
• On the protagonist’s strengths:
  “Her strength is her, you know, genuine fearlessness in her acting based off, like, her gut. And I think that comes from, like, her survival instincts and the way she's like, had to exist in the world...” – Haley Lu Richardson (03:41)
• Regarding real tradecraft:
  “The Big MacGuffin of the season, you know, that isn't based on anything.” – David Iserson (16:38)
• On being underestimated — and using it:
  “The thing is, like, if something's not working or if something's really out of balance because it's just been one way for so long, who's to say that a little bit of flipping it on its head is bad?” – Haley Lu Richardson (26:17)
• Lighthearted closing:
  “If Hayley is president, it's gonna make it harder to schedule her time.” – David Iserson (27:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:00] — Introduction to Ponies & main themes
• [02:14] — Richardson on Twyla's strengths-turned-weaknesses
• [05:46] — Iserson on choosing Cold War Moscow as the setting
• [06:50] — Research & creative process for building the show’s world
• [09:48] — Developing Andre, the KGB antagonist
• [13:14] — The buddy dynamic and teamwork as spy virtues
• [16:38] — Real vs. invented spy tradecraft, avoiding clichés
• [18:12] — On unconventional recruitment and historical context
• [21:11] — The value of unorthodox skills and breaking gender expectations
• [26:54] — Possibility of future seasons and closing banter

Listener Takeaways

• Ponies aims to reimagine the Cold War spy narrative from the perspective of women whose supposed lack of importance becomes their greatest asset.
• The show balances accurate depiction of era-appropriate espionage with deliberate stylization and humor.
• The dynamic between the female leads, drawn from underestimated strengths and real emotional bonds, offers a wealth of both suspense and social commentary.
• Both cast and creators are committed to subverting spy clichés, foregrounding character depth, and exploring the untapped value in unconventional operatives—especially women.

For fans of Cold War intrigue, buddy stories, and sharp subversions of the spy genre, this episode (and the series it spotlights) offers a refreshing, engaging perspective.