Two presidents walk into an airport

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Sources & Methods

Episode: Two presidents walk into an airport

Host: Mary Louise Kelly (NPR)
Guests: Tom Bowman (Pentagon Correspondent), Deepa Shivaram (White House Correspondent, reporting from South Korea)
Date: October 30, 2025

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Main Theme

In this episode, the team unpacks a high-stakes week in national security: the historic in-person summit between U.S. President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping in South Korea; the shockwaves from Trump’s social media call for new U.S. nuclear weapons testing; major headlines on tariffs and rare earths from the summit; diplomatic developments during Trump’s swing through Japan and South Korea; mounting U.S. military activity near Venezuela; and the looming question of whether U.S. troops will be paid during the ongoing government shutdown.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump-Xi Summit in South Korea

Nuclear Testing Surprise

• Trump posted on Truth Social minutes before the summit, instructing the Department of War to begin nuclear weapons testing, citing “other countries’ testing programs.”
  • Deepa Shivaram, from Korea (02:32):

    "It was sort of one of those things that went out and we were like very focused on a Trump Xi summit. And then all of a sudden, you know, in a very Trump es, this other thing like flies out of left field."

  • The announcement caught both the U.S. and Asia off-guard, generating confusion and unanswered questions about policy, process, and intent.
  • Testing nuclear weapons is logistically and legally complex, requiring months if not years of preparation.
    • Tom Bowman (03:47):

      "The Pentagon doesn't do testing. It's done by a division of the Department of Energy... Even if you wanted to do testing, setting it up... would take many months, if not years. You don't just dig a hole and put a bomb in there and then drive away and use your clicker to send it off."

Summit Outcomes: Trade and Tariffs

• Three major takeaways (04:51):

  1. China agreed to pull back on rare earth export limits.
  2. China to resume buying U.S. soybeans immediately, a win for American farmers.
  3. U.S. tariffs on China lower from 57% to 47%—the decrease linked to Xi’s pledge to curb fentanyl trafficking into the U.S.
  • Deepa Shivaram (04:51):

    "China would not be putting those limits [on rare earths] on in exchange for the US also kind of changing their export rules... and then the other thing is that Trump said tariffs on China would be lowered from 57% to 47%... because Xi committed to decrease the flow of fentanyl coming into the U.S."

• Mixed Assessment (06:07):

  • The summit was less about a comprehensive deal, more about de-escalation and “walking back from the brink.”
  • “This meeting is not going to be a, like, tie a bow on the whole end of it... Really the point was to sort of de escalate...” —Deepa Shivaram (06:07).

• US Policy on China Remains Vague

  • Personality-driven diplomacy: Trump treats Xi as a “friend,” emphasizing personal relations even amidst conflict.
    • Mary Louise Kelly and Deepa Shivaram (07:51–08:33):

      "China policy is the president's policy... It's very personality oriented, a lot of compliments, a lot of fanfare... if you look at how Trump talks about Xi Jinping, it's in very friendly terms."

2. Other Major Stops on the Asia Trip

South Korea Submarine Deal

• Contested agreement: Trump claimed South Korea would build a nuclear submarine in Philadelphia, but South Korea denies any finalized agreement.
  • Deepa Shivaram (11:13):

    "Trump posted on Truth Social saying that not only was South Korea gonna be allowed to do this, they would build this sub in Philadelphia. South Korea is now saying we didn't really agree to that."

  • Tom Bowman (12:02): Even with a South Korean company buying the shipyard, the technical and regulatory hurdles are immense.

Japan: Warm Ties and Massive Investments

• Prime Minister Takaichi and Trump—markedly friendly relations; Japan committing to a $550 billion investment, more than Korea.
• Gifts and fanfare: Trump receives a famed golf club and a replica Korean crown; the arrival includes “YMCA” playing on the tarmac.
  • Deepa Shivaram (12:41, 13:21):

    "A lot of flattery, a lot of fanfare, a lot of pomp and circumstance... gifts... including YMCA being played on the tarmac."

The “Will He, Won’t He” DMZ Visit

• Rumors swirled about a possible Trump-Kim Jong Un meeting at the DMZ, echoing chaotic prior summits. In the end, Trump skipped the DMZ, saying it might “disrespect” his meeting with Xi.
  • Deepa Shivaram (14:00):

    "There was a lot of teasing up to that point... I was talking to someone here who was saying they had contingency plans just in case..."

  • Trump’s view (14:49): Open to meeting Kim sometime; “don’t rule it out.”

3. US Naval Build-up Near Venezuela

• Growing U.S. “drug interdiction” operations—now involving the world’s largest aircraft carrier (the USS Ford), cruisers, destroyers, B1 bombers, helicopters, Marines, and F-35s.

  • Tom Bowman (15:36):

    "More than a dozen warships... cruisers, destroyers, a ship with 2,000 Marines aboard... The USS Ford... steaming toward Venezuela..."

• War Powers Act Clock

  • Congress may be forced to intervene if the president does not seek an extension for military operations. Political likelihood of a Congressional clampdown is slim.
  • Tom Bowman (16:20):

    "...the president has another 30 days to pull back those troops. But we don't know what's going to happen... No indication by the Republicans in Congress that they would... stop this..."

4. Military Pay & Shutdown Ethics

• With the government shutdown in its 30th day, troops are scheduled for payday, but uncertainty looms.
• Vice President J.D. Vance and the White House promise no missed paychecks, but specifics are fuzzy and prior stopgap measures are drying up.
  • Deepa Shivaram (19:15):

    "White House has been pretty quick to move money around if it kind of works at their favor... which... blurs the lines of separation of powers here."

  • Reports of an anonymous donor offering $130 million for military pay—raising ethical concerns about influence and procurement.
    • Tom Bowman (20:22):

      "The president said it's a patriotic American... who kicked in $130 million. To you and me, that sounds like a lot... but... to pay the troops, that really is a pittance."

    • Mary Louise Kelly (20:35):

      "Doesn't it also raise some ethics questions about a donor paying Jewish military influence peddling?"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nuclear Testing Shock (02:32):
  “This issue is not something that's really come up a lot... It was somewhat of a surprise.” —Deepa Shivaram

• On Tariff Deescalation (07:05):
  “The whole point was to sort of take a step back and put things into perspective for both countries.” —Deepa Shivaram

• Diplomatic Showmanship (08:33):
  “He calls Xi a friend. He says that they have really good relations. He's always like, I think he likes me, I like him. There's sort of that sort of Trump banter.” —Deepa Shivaram

• Gift Exchange & “America First” Menus (21:28):
  “There were beef patties served with ketchup. There was Thousand island dressing, which the White House said was a nod to Trump's New York roots. There was... a peace themed dessert that was very gold adorned.” —Deepa Shivaram

• On Soft Diplomacy (22:36):
  “Gold adorned brownies... I think there was gold in the brownies as gold was everywhere else probably as well.” —Deepa Shivaram

• Personal Diplomacy with Chinese Military Attache (24:21):
  “He said, oh, sounds like us.” —Tom Bowman, after describing Pentagon press policy to a Chinese attaché

• Historic OSINT: Halloween Massacre at CIA (25:42):
  “People who had spent their entire lives clouded in secrecy suddenly began seeking out the press to complain about Turner and the firings.” —Nina Totenberg, All Things Considered (quote dug up by Mary Louise Kelly)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 00:29 | Episode intro, setting up Trump-Xi summit context | | 01:19 | Deepa Shivaram reporting from Korea | | 02:32 | Trump’s nuclear testing post—reaction in Asia | | 04:51 | Trade, tariffs, and rare earths—summit outcomes | | 06:07 | Assessment of the summit’s long-term significance | | 07:28 | US policy on China—insight into Trump’s approach | | 10:51 | South Korea/Japan visit highlights | | 14:00 | DMZ: The will-he-won’t-he moment | | 15:02 | US naval escalation near Venezuela | | 16:13 | War Powers Act—congressional oversight discussion | | 18:49 | Military pay and shutdown, anonymous donor revealed | | 21:28 | Soft diplomacy—state dinners, ketchup, gold brownies| | 24:21 | Tom Bowman’s interaction with Chinese military attaché| | 25:42 | Halloween Massacre at CIA—historical OSINT |

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OSINT Segment (Open Source Intelligence)

• Deepa Shivaram: The presidential menus abroad spotlight the global embrace of Trump’s “America first” ethos—beef patties with ketchup and gold-dusted desserts served in Korea.
• Tom Bowman: Anecdote from a military reception—cones of cross-cultural similarity with a Chinese military attaché on press relations.
• Mary Louise Kelly: Historical trivia—1977’s “Halloween massacre” at the CIA saw lifelong spies flood the press to complain, unearthed from NPR archives.

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Overall Tone / Language

The episode combines sharp, real-time reporting with the hosts’ signature blend of curiosity, candor, and a touch of humor—offering authoritative analysis with relatable anecdotes. The correspondents are candid about what is and isn’t known and highlight the chaos, uncertainty, and sometimes performative nature of diplomacy in the Trump era.

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This summary captures the main storylines, high-impact moments, and the nuanced, witty style of the “Sources & Methods” team for listeners who want substance without sorting through 30+ minutes of audio.

Transcript

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[Tom Bowman]

Even if you want to do testing, you don't just dig a hole and put a bomb in there and then drive away and use your clicker to send it off.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

The two most powerful men in Face to Face at a South Korean airport, the Chinese and American presidents backed off their trade war. But now nuclear tensions are front and center, and Friday is payday for U.S. troops. Will the government shutdown cost them their checks? This is Sources and Methods from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It is Thursday, so you know the deal. I am here with two NPR reporters to break down the week's biggest national security stories. Today we have NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman with me here in the newsroom. Howdy, Tom.

[Tom Bowman]

Hey, Mary Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Hey there. And we are catching up with NPR's Deepa Shivaram, who is at the end of a long week traipsing through East Asia along with the president. Where exactly are you today, Deepa?

[Deepa Shivaram]

I am in Gyeongju, Korea, which is, I think, 13 hours ahead of you guys. So I'm almost in Friday territory.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Almost in Friday territory. You're beating us to it, which I will note is 10am just past 10am here on North Capitol street in the newsroom in Washington. Let's dive in and go straight to the capstone of this Asia trip, which was the meeting between Presidents Trump and Xi Jinping of China, their first in person meeting, by the way, in six years since the president's first term. Now here in Trump's second term, they have been locked in something like economic warfare. And we're going to get to the tariff headlines, the trade headlines in a second. But I want to start with this curveball delivered minutes before the summit was set to start in the form of what else? A post on social media, on truth Social. President Trump wrote, and I quote, because of other countries testing programs, I have instructed the Department of War to start testing our nuclear weapons on an equal basis. Deepa, I think I can sum up the collective reaction here in Washington as Wait, what? What was the reaction there in Asia?

[Deepa Shivaram]

It was sort of one of those things that went out and we were like very focused on a Trump Xi summit. And then all of a sudden, you know, in a very Trump es, this other thing like flies out of left field. This issue is not something that's really come up a lot in Washington or in Asia while we've been here. So it was somewhat of a surprise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, because people have not been testing their nukes. I mean, nobody, China, Russia, the U.S.

[Tom Bowman]

Nobody'S tested their nukes since the 1990s.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Correct. Did it come up in the actual summit?

[Deepa Shivaram]

It didn't, and it's sort of. Or if it did, we don't know that they spoke about it because there hasn't exactly been a full readout from the White House. And from what we've seen from Beijing, that really wasn't something that they sort of talked about publicly, at least. So it was sort of shocking to see this, as shocking as it can be, I guess, to see this true social post from Trump really, as you said, like heading into this pretty high stakes meeting with Xi Jinping. And to be honest, like, there hasn't really been much follow up. Like, we don't really know a lot of detail. What does an instruction to the Department of War slash Defense look like? Where would testing take place? And what would Trump even want that to look like? So there's just, it's sort of one of those things that Trump fired off and we're sort of left asking lot more questions.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Tom, any details from the Pentagon? Any reaction?

[Tom Bowman]

Well, first of all, the Pentagon doesn't do testing. It's done by a division of the Department of Energy called the National Nuclear Security Administration, number one. Number two is the testing site is in the Nevada desert. So even if you wanted to do testing, setting it up with diagnostic equipment and figuring out where you wanted to do it and what you wanted to do would take many months, I'm told, if not years. You don't just dig a hole and put a bomb in there and then drive away and use your clicker to send it off. It's very, very sophisticated testing that would take, again, a long, long time.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So you were up early, I know, calling sources and trying to figure out what maybe have driven this. What'd you learn?

[Tom Bowman]

Well, nobody seems to know. And I reached out to this friend of mine who's a physicist and knows this area, and he said, I have no idea what he's talking about.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, so let's go to what actually did get discussed at this summit and what we were expecting to be the big head lines, which have to do with trade, have to do with tariffs. Deepa give us the very quick rundown on where they landed.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, I would say it comes down to like a big three on this. Like the takeaways from this Meeting one is basically that China agreed to pull back on some of the limits they had put on rare earths exports. That was announced earlier this month. It sort of put Trump into a tizzy because he wasn't expecting this announcement to come from Beijing. So that rare earths agreement sort of came together and China agreed that they would not be putting those limits on in exchange for the US Also kind of changing their export rules. The other element was that China would resume buying soybeans from the US Immediately. And that's, of course, been a major issue for American farmers since China halted those shipments. And then the other thing is that Trump said this is the big number part, that tariffs on China would be lowered from 57% to 47%. And that 10% drop, Trump says, is because she committed to decrease the flow of fentanyl coming into the U.S. so.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I mean, the tariff numbers have been all over the place. At one point it was going to be 100% tariffs. That is now off the table. I mean, it sounds as though there was progress today. They reached an agreement on certain things. On the other hand, you could argue, couldn't you, that this gets us back to where we were a few months ago.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, I talked to a couple experts before Trump even came to Asia, and they were pretty much all saying the same thing, which was this meeting is not going to be a, like, tie a bow on the whole end of it. And it's all said and done. Really the point was to sort of de escalate what has been happening, which is this, like, tick up of tensions, a lot of uncertainty. Of course, this like, affects the whole global economy. Right. When we talk about US And China trade relations. And so the whole point was to sort of take a step back and put things into perspective for both countries.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Walk back from the brink. Right.

[Deepa Shivaram]

And that is essentially what happened. It was sort of like a mostly deal. Like, Trump said that it was finalized, but there's still a couple kind of things to hammer out. And Xi said in his statement that came out of Beijing that, you know, he kind of had some, I won't say feisty, but like close to feisty words because he kind of said like, China's doing good. You know, our economy has been fine no matter what the US has been able to throw at us, essentially. And he basically said that this turbulence is something that they should walk away from as both countries continue to talk.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Can I ask, and this is maybe premature because as you said, the point of this summit, it seems, was to walk back from the Brink, it wasn't they weren't going to reach a big definitive deal on any number of points of tension. But have we figured out what US Policy on China is, what the goal of all of the threats of tariffs and then walking back the threats of tariffs is?

[Deepa Shivaram]

It's a really good question. And based on a lot of people I've talked to, there isn't exactly an answer. I did talk to Ryan Haas, who's the director of, of the China center at Brookings, and he said that Trump policy is really different than his first term. He said in the second term, it's.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Kind of like this China policy is the president's policy. He drives, he's in charge. And it's really not looked warmly upon.

[CIDQ Representative]

If other people encroach upon his territory.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Without his guidance or direction on how to do so.

[Deepa Shivaram]

And think about how Trump does a lot of diplomacy, right? It's very personality oriented, a lot of compliments, a lot of fanfare. And that is essentially how he's treated his relationship with like China is not a friend or ally to the United States. But if you look at how Trump talks about Xi Jinping, it's in very friendly terms, despite this escalating tariff war that's been going on. He calls Xi a friend. He says that they have really good relations. He's always like, I think he likes me, I like him. There's sort of that sort of Trump banter. And of course, we know Xi does not really share that same level of diplomatic relations or diplomatic personality.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I'll say the summit is a win if President Trump says it's a win. Okay, I will raise my hand and say I'm still confused by what the US Policy on China is, but let's put a pin in that because I want to take a short break. When we get back, the rest of this whole Asia trip. Japan, South Korea, North Korea. Would he go? Would he not go? That's ahead on Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

Deepa, you've been in the White House pool the first couple of stops. You've been in Asia this whole week. Just a little bit of a readout on some of the earlier meetings because there was important stuff happening there. Japan, South Korea. On the substance side, we are told the South Korea talks resulted, among other things, in a deal on a nuclear powered submarine which Trump says South Korea is going to build in Philadelphia.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, and look like we were just talking about with Trump, China relations. You know, Trump kind of says one thing and maybe a different thing sort of unfolds similarly, that's what's happening with the South Korea deal as well. Trump said that they had reached an agreement. There was a framework that had been established a couple months ago that essentially said that South Korea would invest $350 billion in the part of the talks that happened in Korea was that President Lee in Korea asked Trump for permission to build nuclear powered submarines so that they could better keep tabs on China and North Korea. And Trump posted on Truth Social saying that not only was South Korea gonna be allowed to do this, they would build this sub in Philadelphia. South Korea is now saying we didn't really agree to that. So there's still a lot of details that have not been fleshed out.

[Tom Bowman]

Tom Right. A South Korean company bought the Philly Shipyar just in the past year. I'm told they're building components for both submarines as well as surface ship. But to build a full submarine. You would have to expand the facility. You would have to get more workers, and you would also have to get sensitive technology from the US to put into this submarine. So, again, just like with the nuclear stuff, with the testing, you're talking maybe years before this could even happen.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And then, Deepa, the Japan leg of the trip, you talked about how warmly Trump speaks about. She. What about his new counterpart in Japan?

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, Prime Minister Takaichi, a very good friend of Trump's. Now, they got along really well to the point that when Trump held this big rally on an aircraft carrier in Japan, he brought Takaichi up on stage to give her own remarks at his rally. They got along really well. And the deal and investment that Japan was making into the US is even more than Korea. It's $550 billion, which Trump is, of course, very happy with. But I will say there was lot of flattery, a lot of fanfare, a lot of pomp and circumstance from both of these countries, which, as we know, Trump is a really big fan of.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Some interesting gifts exchanged, too. A golf club.

[Deepa Shivaram]

He got one of Shinzo Abe's golf clubs from Japan. Former Japanese Prime Minister. He got a replica of this very significant crown in Korea that I probably think is at least half the size of my body. And a gold medal as well, that Trump, I remember listening to his remarks, said he wanted to put on right then and there. So a lot of gifts. And it came in a lot of forms, including YMCA being played on the tarmac. When he landed in Korea last thing.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

On the Asia trip, there was this whole, will he go? Won't he go dance around the dmz, the demilitarized zone that divides north and South Korea. In the end, he did not go deep in.

[Deepa Shivaram]

No, he didn't. And there was a lot of teasing up to that point, because Trump really seems to appreciate and enjoy his relationship with Kim Jong Un, who's the North Korean leader. They last met in Trump, Trump's first term. And that meeting came about in a really chaotic way. I mean, Trump posted on Twitter, I think, two days before they met, and then 48 hours later, that meeting came together. So you can imagine here in Korea, there was sort of like this anxiety around whether this might happen again, to the point that I was talking to someone who's based on the ground here, who was saying they had contingency plans just in case this was going to happen a second time. Because I asked Trump on Air Force One, you know, would you extend your trip to meet with Kim Jong Un, and he was totally open to it.

[Tom Bowman]

To meet him around. And I'll be in South Korea, so I could be right over there.

[Deepa Shivaram]

But none of that really came together. And then on the flight home today, Trump ended up saying that it might have been disrespectful to his meeting with Xi if that meeting with Kim had happened. But he's open to it in the future, so don't rule it out.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

All right, let me turn us to American aircraft carriers. The world's biggest is currently headed for the coast of Venezuela. Tom, every time we talk, the number of strikes keeps rising, the count keeps going up. It was 11, then it was 12, then it was 13, 14. We do know the US says they are targeting drug smugglers at sea. We do know they have not provided evidence of that. We know dozens of people have died. How big is the buildup of US naval hardware now in the region? An aircraft carrier group now heading toward the waters of Venezuela.

[Tom Bowman]

Mayor LOUIS Right now there are more than a dozen warships there. There are cruisers, destroyers. There's a ship with 2,000 Marines aboard. There's also aircraft going along the Venezuela coast. B1 bombers, helicopters. There are more warplanes, F35s in Puerto Rico. And now we have the USS Ford, which was in the Mediterranean, steaming toward Venezuela as we speak. It'll arrive there maybe a week or two. But that on board has more than 80, 90 aircraft, a lot of many of them F18s, which are, you know, could get involved in a dog fight with another aircraft or hit land targets.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There is a clock ticking on all this activity in the Caribbean. It is called the War Powers Act. Explain.

[Tom Bowman]

War Powers act came in the wake of Vietnam, and it basically says if a president sends troops into harm's way, the president has to notify Congress within 48 hours. And then the clock starts. For 60 days. You can take part in your, whatever military operation you're going to do. And then at the end of 60 days, which comes right now on Sunday, I believe, then the president has another 30 days to pull back those troops. But we don't know what's going to happen. Well, they, most people think they'll ask for an extension, but Congress could jump in and basically say, no, this military operation has to stop. There's no indication by the Republicans in Congress that they would even head down that road of basically stopping this Caribbean supposed drug boat operation.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay. But so we're watching for action potentially from Congress. We're going to take a quick break after that. Will this government shutdown cost military families a paycheck. That is coming up on Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

One more military topic, and I want to throw this one at both of you, Tom and Deepa. As we speak, the government shutdown is in its 30th day and tomorrow Friday is supposed to be paycheck day for American troops here in the US and around the world. Deepa, the vice president, JD Vance, he said they are not gonna miss that paycheck even though the government is shut down and a lot of people aren't getting paid. Do we know what the plan is?

[Deepa Shivaram]

We haven't seen the details of that plan, but we do know that the White House has been pretty quick to move money around if it kind of works at their favor during this shutdown, which just to be abundantly clear, really blurs the lines right of the separation of powers here. Congress has the power of the purse. This is supposed to be about reopening the government down on the other side of Capitol Hill. But the White House has essentially sort of looked at the situation and said, well, if there's things that we can do for issues that we want to make happen, they will move money around and in some cases find money. And that has essentially been the case.

[Tom Bowman]

And they actually did find money two weeks ago. Seven or eight billion dollars in research and development funds from the Pentagon was used two weeks ago. But you're right, it was far as the vice president, J.D. vance, said we'll find the money. We don't know where that's going to come, but two weeks from now on November 15, basically, the Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessen, said, we don't have any money for November 15th to move it from.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

One pot to the other. We do know there's been all this talk floating about an anonymous donor who's volunteered to pay the troops. Tom, any more intel on that?

[Tom Bowman]

Well, the president said it's a patriotic American, a great American who kicked in $130 million. To you and me, that sounds like a lot of money. But if you're going to pay the troops, that really is a pittance.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Doesn't it also raise some ethics questions.

[Tom Bowman]

About a donor paying Jewish military influence peddling? Does this person have any contracts with the government is a real problem in that area.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. And I note, as I've been reading around and watching what's happening with the remains of the East Wing of the White House building, this big ballroom, I was looking at the contributors who are helping to fund that one, and there's some big defense players there, Lockheed Martin, Palantir, et cetera. So there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Well, keep in mind this is the same president who had a car show for Tesla on the South Lawn. So. Excellent point, consistent on that front.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay. We always end our show with usint, that is open source intelligence. So revealing details we have stumbled across in our reporting recently. Deepa, I'm gonna let you start because it sounds like you've had a heck of a week. What. What's been going on there? Nasia, what do you got?

[Deepa Shivaram]

Well, my open source intelligence was me taking a really close peek at the menu that was served here to the president and other heads of state in Korea. And we were talking earlier about some of the fanfare and the red carpet that's been rolled out for the president. And the thing that's so stunning to me is that, you know, obviously Trump has an America first policy, right. Like, he talks about that all the time from the White House. But it's really interesting to be all the way across the world in Korea and, like, have the rest of the world also treat it like America first, because the menu here was, you know, had some Korean influence. But, you know, there were beef patties served with ketchup. There was Thousand island dressing, which the White House said was a nod to Trump's New York roots. There was even, like, just in an effort to sort of ham up Trump and his peacemaking efforts around the world, there was Like a peace themed dessert that was very gold adorned. There's just been so much around making sure that Trump is happy and comfortable.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Sorry, gold adorned. Like actual, actual gold on the dessert. What are we talking about?

[Deepa Shivaram]

Gold adored brownies? Like, I think there was gold in the brownies as gold was everywhere else probably as well. But the food really stuck out to me because it's just such a fascinating aspect of soft diplomacy sometimes to see the different ways that you can kind of cater to. This is a global summit, so there's definitely more leaders than just Trump, but it definitely didn't seem like that looking at all of the focus and attention on just the American president.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Ketchup and Thousand island dressing, those traditional Korean.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yes, Very, very native to East Asian.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There we go. Tom, can you top that?

[Tom Bowman]

Well, I was at a reception at the Army Navy Country Club outside Washington last week and it was remaining Armed Forces Day, which we all know is October 25th.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Celebrated every year. Right.

[Tom Bowman]

Walked into this ballroom. There was a sea of military uniforms. There was someone from Ukraine, from Estonia, Latvia. I saw a Canadian, you know, handful of American military officers there. And I'm drinking some nice Romanian red wine and this guy walks up to me and he introduces himself as one of the Chinese military attaches. Perfect English. This is his second tour in Washington. So we started chatting up, you know, have you traveled much? He said, I've been to 35 states. I said, well, I'm from the Boston area. He said, oh, I love. I also went to Cape Cod and I've spent a lot of time at Cape Cod. I said, you're my kind of guy. And then he said, well, can we talk about this Pentagon press policy, can you tell me about it? I said, well, basically it says that, you know, we can't solicit information, we can't reach out to people at the Pentagon. We basically have to wait until they give us information and then we can go with that. He said, oh, sounds like us.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, I'm gonna go seasonal for my OSINT, because we do know that October 31st is hallo. And I was going back through the archives and remembering the Halloween massacre at the CIA. This was October 31, 1977. At the time, the CIA was led by Stansfield Turner and he chose Halloween to begin his purge of 800 officers. These were layoffs, cost cutting measures. But I will say if you go today and search the CIA archives and type in Halloween Massacre 1977, the first hit you get printed it out here. It's a typewriter transcript that they have scanned in. It is from this rookie reporter named, wait for It, Nina Totenberg filing for Wait for It All Things Considered on npr. And Nina is reporting on these layoffs and she reports the CIA went into an uproar.

[Council for Interior Design Qualification Announcer]

Anti Turner graffiti sprung up on bulletin boards, T shirts sprouted with the emblem armchair Admiral out.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Stansfield Turner, the director, was Navy Admiral. These were all layoffs in the clandestine Service. So AKA the spies. Back to Halloween. And the line that really caught my eye for our purposes, for Sources and methods was this one.

[Council for Interior Design Qualification Announcer]

And most unusual of all, people who had spent their entire lives clouded in secrecy suddenly began seeking out the press to complain about Turner and the firings.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So I think you could sum up The Halloween rations, Oscar 1977, very bad day if you worked at the CIA. Very good day to be a journalist who covers the CIA because suddenly all these guys who would never take your call are calling you. Yeah, Returning your call.

[Tom Bowman]

It's called Trick or Treat.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Trick or Treat. That is NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman here with me in Washington. Thank you, Tom.

[Tom Bowman]

You're welcome.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And Deepa Shivaram making her debut on Sources and Methods from from South Korea. Deepa, thank you. Hope you get some rest.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Thanks for having me.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Before we go, a thank you to our NPR listeners who heard this episode in less time with no sponsor messages. Plus, listeners can also access our entire back catalog and catch up on listening anytime if that's you. Your support makes it possible for us, the journalists you hear on this show, to do our work. So thank you. There's more information on NPR [e-mail] I'm Mary Louise Kelly. We're back next week with another episode of Sources and Methods from npr.

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[Deepa Shivaram]

Impact.

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