Did you know that being truly present can impact your surroundings as much as an athlete's performance on the field? In this episode of Spirituality in Leadership, Andrew Cohn sits down with longtime friend, colleague, and leadership coach Stephen McGhee for a conversation about presence, wisdom, and leading from the inside out. Rather than offering formulas or techniques, Stephen shares a way of being, one rooted in listening, humility, and what he calls “keeping altitude.”

The conversation explores how spirituality shows up in leadership without being imposed through language or labels. Stephen introduces his idea of a “ladder of consciousness,” where service and love sit at the highest rungs, and explains why leaders do more good when they resist inflicting their own beliefs and instead stay curious about how others experience meaning and integrity.

A central theme is presence. Stephen reflects on how presence itself “pays,” not as a transaction, but because whatever we carry emotionally and spiritually gets transmitted into rooms, relationships, and decisions. Leaders, he suggests, shape outcomes simply by how present, grounded, and authentic they are.

Stephen also shares his personal experience of losing his home in the Pacific Palisades fires. He speaks candidly about grief, rejecting “toxic positivity,” and honoring the importance of process, allowing pain, meaning, and gratitude to unfold in their own time. Through this story, the principles of presence, listening, and acceptance become real and lived.

If you've faced unexpected hardship or seek ways to integrate spirituality practically into leadership and life, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways

Presence Pays: Authentic presence transmits energy and value; it's contagious and foundational to effective leadership and relationships.
Avoid Inflicting Language: Honor others' spirituality without imposing your own vernacular, keep "altitude" for genuine connection.
Listening as Mastery: True listening includes content, context, and inner self-awareness to respond freshly, not reactively.
Process Over Bypass: Grieve fully and avoid toxic positivity; proper processing turns pain into learning and strength.
Use Everything for Advancement: Cooperate with what is, accept without judgment, and trust that challenges contribute to soul growth.
Gratitude in the Present: Life's impermanence awakens deeper appreciation for moments, relationships, and unfolding grace.

In This Episode:

[00:00] Opening on spiritual guidance and not inflicting language
[00:29] The ladder of consciousness and keeping altitude
[02:38] How Andrew and Stephen met; shared spiritual community
[04:16] Stephen's corporate roots and shift to soul-aligned leadership
[07:34] Practical principles for inclusive spiritual conversations
[10:34] Presence pays and what that really means
[12:27] Authenticity in presence; impact on others
[14:18] Getting present before conversations
[15:41] The power of deep listening (content, context, inner)
[18:18] Avoiding labels and prejudice for better connection
[21:41] The Palisades Fire: Evacuation and immediate aftermath
[23:56] Toxic positivity vs. healthy processing
[26:44] Acceptance, grieving, and timing
[28:30] Returning to the site; small victories amid loss
[30:38] A profound sunset experience from the ashes
[35:38] Where to find Stephen's work

Resources and Links

Spirituality in Leadership Podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spirituality-in-leadership/id1713365406

Stephen McGhee

Andrew Cohn

Website: https://www.spiritualityinleadership.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewcohnusa/

Music:

Kodiak: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4rURKtnJr3jeHvZ0IVRQCe

Finding Grace in the Ashes: A Coach’s Journey Through Fire and Wisdom, with Stephen McGhee