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- [00:07]
Glen Washington
She wants to hear the truth, she says, but I prefer to lie. Doctor, will I live? She asks. My dear, you'll never die. You're listening to Spooked. Stay True. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast with Progressive? It is. Just visit the Progressive website to quote with all the coverages you want. You'll see Progressive's direct rate. Then their tool will provide options from other companies so you can compare. All you need to do is choose the rate and coverage you like. Quote today@progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Comparison rates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [01:19]
Katya de Pena
It had to be you. Dang, you're not supposed to sound that good at karaoke. You've just only heard me sing all stuffed up with nasal polyps. But now I'm on this medicine and breathing better.
- [01:30]
Jim
So this is me with less congestion.
- [01:32]
Aurora
Dupixent Dupilumab is an add on prescription maintenance treatment for uncontrolled chronic rhinosinusitis with nasal polyps in adults and children 12 years and up. It can help shrink your nasal polyps so you can breathe better with less congestion. Plus, it's an alternative to surgery.
- [01:46]
Katya de Pena
Oh, this is your song. Wish I was singing after congested you.
- [01:50]
Aurora
Severe allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening, shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop steroid asthma or other treatments without talking to your doctor.
- [02:11]
Jim
Do more with less nasal polyps.
- [02:13]
Katya de Pena
Ask your doctor about DUPIXENT.
- [02:15]
Aurora
Learn more at DUPIXENT.com or call 1-844- DUPIXENT.
- [02:20]
Glen Washington
If you could hear love, what would it sound like? Son, can we talk about your drinking? Yeah Dad, I think we should helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. More@rethinkthedrink.com An OHA initiative I never know.
- [02:51]
Jim
What the day will bring, So I use Microsoft 365 to stay on schedule, get organized and collaborate on plans with family and friends. It helps me tackle to dos, track projects and focus on what's important. Click or tap the banner to learn more about Microsoft 365. With BlueCash preferred from American Express, you can earn cash back on groceries, gas, and streaming from the checkout counter to the pump and finally back home again. To stream your favorite shows. You can get more out of your everyday moments, earn on your errands and get rewarded with Blue Cash preferred. Learn more@americanexpress.com US Explore BCP terms apply.
- [03:40]
Glen Washington
4Th of July, right before 7th grade, I go to a party at my buddy Jeff Shade's house fat crib on Sanford Lake right outside of Midland, Michigan. Almost every one of my class shows, including the girls. Jeff's dad pulls us on water skis with their brand new boat. We roast hot dogs, marshmallows, eat watermelon, light fireworks that explode over the lake. That night I stay over with five of my best friends in the whole wide world. Jeff, Marty, Danny, Sean, Corey. Jeff's mom makes us pancakes the next morning, swimming in butter and syrup, laughing. She unloads a whole can of whipped cream on mine, especially for me. Because, she says, because a banker say goodbye to everyone, ride my bike back to my house, and Pops helps me pack it inside our already loaded up U Haul truck. Then we drive away from Sanford, Michigan, and I never see any of those people again. And I don't know enough to be sad. Almost 13 years old, I've moved homes 13 different times, 13 different addresses, eight different schools. The truth is, sitting in the passenger seat of a U Haul next to Pops on the interstate, this is my happy place. Yeah, it is. Time to go. What next? What next? And two decades later, I'm on a plane to Brussels, Belgium, a place I've never been. And I'm moving there to work at a job I hate for a company I despise. And a girl sits next to me, 13 years old, blinking back tears, trying to be brave, trying not to weep, but weeping all the same. When I ask her what's wrong, she's silent. When I ask her again, she tells me that because of the divorce, she's moving too. That her house now has a For Sale sign on it, a house she can't imagine not living in. Her best friend lives down the street. She just made second chair violin and orchestra. She won't see the birds come back to roost in the trees she and her uncle planted in the backyard. Her grandmother promises to visit, but instead of every Thursday, just the two of them on the couch watching movies, it might be every six months, maybe every year. And all of this pours from her in a hot wail. She comes from a community, a drown, a sky, a smell, a music, and being torn away from it. I want to tell her comforting words that it will get better, that soon this new place will feel like home too. You'll see. Then I stop. I think about the people, the families that had given me bare embrace, let me into their homes and their lives. And how casually I walked away, wondering what's next. This little girl is not the one having a strange reaction to leaving everything and everyone behind. I am, I think, little girl, you are right to feel it. You are right to cry. That leaving is a hurt that should never fully heal. In fact, I should be weeping with you. You are not broken. No, Broken is a grown person sitting on an airplane who doesn't care where they are going or who they're leaving behind. Spook starts now See, when you move away, some things inevitably get left behind. Now we're going back. Back to the 1980s, to Stratford, a theater town in Ontario, Canada. Katya de Pena and her husband Jim. They've grown tired of living in apartments. They're looking for a house to rent, a place where they don't have to share walls with their neighbors. That has a yard for their daughter to play in. They hear about a sweet little place in a nice neighborhood for rent. They drop everything to check it out. Split.
- [10:18]
Katya de Pena
We went to see it. It's got a wood stove in the kitchen, which is wonderful. And it's got a nice little fenced backyard. We can have a bedroom for my daughter Aurora, who's 4 at the time. All my domestic hormones start kicking in and I think, this is it. This is an amazing house. But it's still a little bit odd. Someone has put up all kinds of wallpaper from the 50s. That sort of climbing trellis with ivy going up it and roses on diagonals. Every room is done like this and none of it matches. But hey, someone's taste, it's okay. Like, I just want a home. It doesn't matter to me. And besides, I like houses that have character. We negotiate the rent and we move the things we have. There's a lot of motion going on. There's friends helping us unload the truck. There's other friends as well that aren't helping that much unload. But they're there. As I'm bringing a box in, my daughter says to me, who's the old man on the phone in the hall? I'm confused. And I go into the hallway to see what she could be talking about. And there's no old and there's no phone there. There's an old plate on the wall where people used to mount the old the party line phones where you would jiggle the receiver and ask the operator to connect you. But that's all that's there. I say I don't see anyone and I assume that she's seen someone that she doesn't recognize. She's a little kid and to little kids everybody big looks old. Those first few weeks it's exciting because we have a house and I'm happy about that. But it's also it just feels unsettled. I don't feel calm. I don't feel as relaxed as I had hoped I would. But I think if I put in the work I will spruce it up and it will all fall together. I was washing the walls in the dining room on top of a ladder with my back to the rest of the room and I can't escape the feeling that I'm being watched. I look around to see what it might be. There is no one there. So I turn and move the ladder to a different location a little further down the wall, go back up again and it's okay for a couple of minutes and then I get the same sensation again. This feeling of being watched, this feeling of not being alone starts to be omnipresent and I blame me for some reason I'm being overly sensitive to something and that I have to, just as we say, pull up my big girl panties and get on with it to keep working on the house that there's nobody there, that nobody is watching me. But I can't figure out what this feeling is.
- [14:54]
Jim
With Blue Cash every day from American Express, you can get 3% cash back on up to $6,000 per year in purchases at US supermarkets and US gas stations. Amex helps you earn on the things you're already buying. Learn more@americanexpress.com us Explore BCE terms and cap apply. Sometimes more is better, like hearing more of your favorite songs and having another cup of coffee. Enjoy more with Chobani Coffee Creamer made with real cream in a new bigger size Chobani Coffee Creamer available at Walmart.
- [15:24]
Narrator
Americans love using their credit cards, the most secure and hassle free way to pay. But D.C. politicians want to change that with the Durbin Marshall credit card bill. This bill lets corporate megastores pick how your credit card is processed, allowing them to use untested payment networks that jeopardize your data, security and rewards. Corporate mega stores will make more money and you pay the price. Tell Congress to guard your card because Americans lose when politicians choose. Learn more atguard your card.com.
- [16:04]
Katya de Pena
We were alone a lot in the house, Aurora and I. My husband, I would have liked him to have been there more, but he couldn't. The only way that he could have been there was to stop the job, and we couldn't afford that. So I was on my own. I'm downstairs in the living room, and Aurora's supposed to be napping upstairs. And I hear this little voice go, I have to pee. And she comes running down the stairs. The direct path for her is down the hallway, but instead she comes out and goes all the way around, through the living room, through the dining room, to the other door for the bathroom. And I asked her why, and she said, saes is there. When I asked her who sakes is, she says, he's an old man and he lives here. That feels extremely creepy to me. But she's an imaginative child. We all are. We work in the arts, of course, we have imaginations. So I definitely believe that it's an imaginary friend. But it's clear that it's not an imaginary friend that she likes. Because after a while, I realize that Aurora will never, ever go down the hall with the phone plate on it. It's the middle of the night and I can hear her calling from her room, which is right across the hall. So I leave my bed and I go across the hall and I sit in her bed. And she says, mom, the white hands are bothering me. I can't sleep. I ask her to describe the hands, and she says they're white. Sometimes there's many. There's always more than two. Sometimes they pat, sometimes they scratch. Sometimes they're just around her. And she tells me it sakes. It appears to me that my daughter is having some repeated, uncomfortable dreams. So I say to her, it's okay, sweetie. I'll stay here and I'll protect you. You can sleep and I will protect you. And I decide that what I'll do is I'll just curl up next to her in her bed. It's wide enough. And that calms her down immediately. She gets back to sleep. But this would continue, and I would hear it two times a week. Perhaps I would just get up when she called me, and I would just curl up with her in her bed. So it's afternoon. I'm having a nap. Aurora's having a nap. And I hear a sound that wakes me up. I hear the sound of rushing water. My first thought Is, oh, the pipe's broken. And I go downstairs, and the bathtub's on. The small sink in the side room. The toilet is in. Is on the main vanity room sink is on. And I go into the kitchen, and the kitchen sink is on. And they're on full force, all faucets just flat out. So I turn them off. I don't understand what's going on, and I'm freaked out. I'm a relatively handy person. I know that there's no reason that I know of that that should happen. The combination of this, my daughter's nightmares of me feeling like I'm being watched. There's something here. There's something here that's not us. There's something here either doesn't want us us here, or it wants to get our attention. I need to know more. I am leery of going to the neighbors and asking, say, have you heard anything about the house I'm in being haunted? And my husband hasn't had any experiences that I know of or that he's willing to go into. It's coming up to Christmas, and we've got the sugar cookie dough rolled out, and Aurora is really interested in this. She's got the reindeer cut out and the snowman cut out and the Santa Claus cut out. And she's very precise about laying out the different shapes. I pick this stereotypically bucolic moment to open up the topic, because if I can do this gently, if I can do this playfully, maybe that will help her deal with it in a way that doesn't scare her, because I certainly don't want her to feel that. So I ask her, who Sakes is? Who is this man? What does he look like? She says, he is a small man, very old. He's got very pale skin. He has a peaked cap. It's a good thing that she comes from a theater background, because we both know what a peaked cap is. She said, he walks around a lot. He's always on the phone. And then I asked her if he was friendly, and she didn't answer me at all. And I didn't like that. I didn't like that around my daughter, not at all. It's one thing if it's just me, I can override that, but not if there's anything, anything that's making my child unhappy or unsafe. It's a very pleasant Sunday evening. We're just sitting down at the beginning of dinner, and there's a knock on the screen door to the kitchen. And I go to the door to see who it is. And there's a young man, I don't know at the door. He's very friendly, looks like a farm boy, someone who works with his hands. Clearly. He's standing on the back covered doorstep. I'm inside the kitchen, we're talking through the screen door. And I ask the young gentleman what I can do for him. And he says that he is looking for the couple that he bought the house with. They bought the house that we're now in at an auction because a person had died in the house and there was no one to take care of the estate of the departed. And their plan was something that they'd done before. They would buy the house, clean it up, sell it. But he'd had to leave early because of a family emergency and he had gone away, lost contact with the couple that he'd worked with. But he was interested in getting back into it again. That's why he was looking for them. And he says it's really interesting when you buy old houses. There's things left all over the place. And you want to know the weirdest thing that we, we found. And he points to something past me, which would be the cabinets above the stove. And he says, right up there we found the guy's old artificial hand. He said it was ceramic, it wasn't flexible, it wasn't something that you could do things with. And it was white, absolutely white, like a white dinner plate. When he told me, I felt like the blood in my body had drained out of a hole in my feet heat. It knocked the breath out of me. It was a white hand.
- [27:08]
Glen Washington
It's the get holiday ready sales event with Hank and Sam from the Ford crew today, a new shipment of inventory.
- [27:15]
Jim
Hank, what's going on? Another hauler full of new ford trucks and SUVs. Sam, so much SUV capability is that Ford F series. The best selling trucks for 47 years. And a big selection means big savings.
- [27:28]
Glen Washington
Yep.
- [27:28]
Jim
Which means it's the best time to buy. Well done, Sam. And time for America to get holiday ready with ford.
- [27:34]
Glen Washington
Based on 1977-2023 cy industry reported total.
- [27:37]
Jim
Sales with Blue cash every day from American Express. You can get 3% cash back on up to $6,000 per year in purchases at US supermarkets and US gas stations. Amex helps you earn on the things you're already. Learn more@americanexpress.com us Explore BCE terms and cap apply.
- [27:53]
Narrator
Americans love using their credit cards the most secure and hassle free way to pay. But D.C. politicians want to change that with the Durbin Marshall credit card Bill this bill lets corporate mega stores pick how your credit card is processed, allowing them to use untested payment networks that jeopardize your data, security and rewards. Corporate megastores will make more money, and you pay the price. Tell Congress to guard your card, because Americans lose when politicians choose. Learn more@guardyourcard.com.
- [28:33]
Katya de Pena
I start the next day to do something I should have done before, which is to ask my neighbors about the previous resident. And they say, oh yes, it was an old guy. He was Scots, and he had an artificial hand. They said that this man, whose name they never learned, was a very unfriendly and solitary character. He would stump around the porch of the house or in the small backyard arranging things, wearing a peaked cap. They never knew whether he had any hair under the cap at all, and he wasn't a very big person, but he was very wiry, very strong. I'm able to put all the pieces together and they all fit. And I think maybe I can convince him to move on, to let go, to leave us alone. And I decide that I'm going to have to do my version of an exorcism. I wait until my daughter can have a sleepover at a friend's house, and I know my husband won't be home for a long time because he's working that night. I start in Aurora's room and I say, you have to leave. This is not your home. I know you were here and I'm sorry, but you have to go because now this is my house. Then I go to my bedroom and I say, and this is our bedroom. I go down the stairs, I go past the phone mount in the hallway, and I say, you don't have to be on the phone anymore. You are free. You can move on. I go into the living room and I say, this is not your house. You have to leave. I do the same thing in the adjacent dining room. I go into the bathroom and I say, you must leave this house alone. You have to let go. I repeat the same things in every room in the house. I stay up for quite a while after that, and I go into the kitchen, I pour a glass of wine, and I just sit there and I think about what his life may have been like, and I feel horrible for him because in a sense, I'm banishing someone. But this is what I have to do. I cannot keep going like this. I hope that this works. I don't know whether it will or not. We'll see. Things seemed to slow down A bit after that, it seemed to lighten. White hands, nightmares, etc. That stuff seemed to decrease. I think that he heard me, and I'm happy about that. And then I hear her across the hallway starting to stir. In the middle of the night, I hear the beginning of mom, Mom, Mom, Mom. And I get out of bed right away, and I go across the hall. And she's but five feet from her bed is an old wooden rocking chair. It's where I would usually sit to read to her in the daytime. And the chair is rocking. It's rocking like someone is in the chair. This is his answer, that he's here. Maybe it's my house, but it's his house too. I'm afraid and I. I don't know what to do, but I know I will protect her with my life. So I go over and I. I yell at the chair and I tell it that it has to go, it has to get out. And then after that, I just sit in the chair to hold it still and I just stay there. That night, I climb into her bed and I go to sleep next to her. I wanted her to think that it was a dream. It's okay if I knew that it wasn't a dream. You just. You don't want your kid to be scared. Particularly if they're scared of something that their parents cannot protect them from. I decided that we were going to move and we were going to get another house, which was really disappointing. But I can't think of anything else I can do. I was glad to leave. We actually are able to find a house to buy at the time. The cheapest house in Stratford. Equally aged, but with a really nice feeling to it. Aurora is running around and I ask her how she feels about the house. And she just says, this is a nice house. I like this house. So she got to pick out her room and she doesn't bring up this man that she's named. Sakes again. There's no more dreams. There's no more white hands. There's no one in that house that she talks about. And that's good enough for me.
- [36:38]
Glen Washington
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Katya, for sharing your story with the Spooked. The original score for this piece was by Yari Bundy. It was produced by Zoe Frigno. Now, there was a man who walked 40 miles every day in order to reach a spring to fill his bucket of water. Every single day, the children would see him rise early in the morning, returned late in the evening, dragging his bucket of water behind One day a young boy asked a man, why do you walk so far to the well? When a mountain stream of pure water rushes by a mere 200 meters distant, the man, his eyes wide, his face sallow, creases deep from countless hours spent carrying water under the unforgiving son, shakes his head gravely and says, stream? You gotta be kidding me. What stream? You see, it's the same with spooks. The lost wander searching for water because they don't know about the stream. It's not right. Spooksters tell somebody, write a review. Tweet. Actually, you know what? Don't tweet. Forget that guy. Instagram TikTok shout. Let your favorites know before it's too late on all the platforms. And don't forget, don't forget, there's nothing better than a spook story from a spooked Listener. Spook@snapjudgment.org Let us know. Spooks is brought to you by the team that understands full well that not everyone who wanders is lost. Except for the case of Mark Ristich. If you see him wandering about, no doubt about it, he's lost. Please call the number taped to his jacket. Thank you. Mothers Davey Kim Zoe Frigno Eric Yanez Tail to Cott Marissa Dodge Miles Lassie Doug Stewart Elliot Lightfoot Paulina Creeke Juan Diego Beltran Sasha Wilson Daniel Shinsky the spook theme song is by Pat Mesini Miller. My name is Glen Washington and there is no pleasure ignorant of pain. Order is meaningless without the threat of chaos. And the same applies for shadow. Because the shadow is not in opposition to the light. The shadow is twin to the light because seeking dominion, this is a fool's errand. There will always be darkness.
- [39:38]
Katya de Pena
No.
- [39:38]
Glen Washington
We seek balance to cage it, to control it, to harness it so that it does not destroy us. You'll need amazing wisdom to achieve such lofty goals. Unfortunately, the only piece of advice I have for offer is to never ever ever, never, never ever, never never ever turn out.
- [40:23]
Jim
Earn cash back with blue cash preferred from American Express no matter how you do self care. So whether you prefer to unwind on the couch or on the treadmill, Amex is ready to reward you. Learn more@American Express.com US Explore. BCP terms apply.