B (2:02)

Yeah.

A (2:03)

But what will be the same is we're going to be borrowing a bit of brilliance from an idea that we think is very interesting and important for your squiggly career and making it really practical. So that you can apply it to what you are doing. So, Sarah, what are we going to be talking about today?

B (2:18)

So we're going to be borrowing brilliance from Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith, who writes about the seven types of rest that every person needs. And so I read an article that actually I think was published on Ted.com a little while ago. So I've always known about these seven different types of rest and found it really useful. I think it's a much more nuanced approach to resting and more relevant because I think you can make it much more personal to you. So I think it's really helpful. And then I, someone in our team actually said to me, have you read this article where someone took the seven types of rest and sort of tried them all out and like sort of shared what she found? A journalist at the Guardian. So I read that as well and I was like, do you know what? We can, we can all take a bit of inspiration from this. That's what we're going to do today.

A (3:01)

So Sarah will go through the seven different types of rest, we're going to talk a little bit about it and then we've got a really useful AI prompt so that you can personalize it and we will summarize all the ideas that we're talking about today in the pod sheet. So you can get that from either amazingif.com or it will also be in the show notes.

B (3:18)

So we're going to go through the seven quite quickly. You can always read the article if you sort of want to dive in a bit deeper and then move on to me asking Helen some coaching questions to see sort of where she is with her rest and then how we make it sort of hyper personalised for Helen and for me at the same time. As ever, we're using the podcast to help ourselves, but hopefully it's useful for you too. So, first type of rest is physical rest, probably the one that you go to fastest. And that can be more passive, like sleep or just sort of napping. I like the fact I said napping. I was like, I never take naps.

A (3:49)

I was gonna say, do you nap?

B (3:50)

No, because they make me feel worse.

A (3:52)

I think it's quite cool when people say they nap. I'm like, I'm not a napper.

B (3:54)

No, I'm not a napper. I do admire something.

A (3:57)

I do admire a napper, but it.

B (3:59)

Can also be active rest, things like yoga, stretching, apparent massages count. I was like, oh, that's quite appealing. How not you.

A (4:08)

Christ.

B (4:09)

But as in if it's permission to book myself in for a massage. That feels more appealing. Right, so that's first kind of rest. We're already on number one. Second kind of rest, mental rest. So this sort of, I guess stops you from. If you. This kind of gives your brain a break. If you don't have mental rest. I guess this is where you're feeling always on. You get described here as like, you know, you can't switch off.

A (4:34)

Yeah.

B (4:35)

Yes. Yeah, I think that's probably. I reckon that's quite relatable, you know, that idea of going to bed and Is your mind still racing? I had that one night this week where I knew I was tired. I'd had two really bad nights sleep. I was still really tired and I could not go to sleep and I was like. And I was physically tired, but I was like, but the brain is still going and it's still going and it's.

A (4:55)

Still going to have that. Because, you know, we talk about this sometimes because I think as soon as I'm in bed I literally go to sleep straight away. But it's more. I'm like, all right, I'll stop now. You know, like to watch some TV or even like to read stories of my children. And I'm like, only half of me is there because the other half of my brain is still.

B (5:12)

So I basically have to go to sleep to stop. Yes. Okay, we'll come back to that. The next one is sensory rest. So this is, you know, rest where you've perhaps been overstimulated by lights screens, which I suspect is the most popular one. Scrolling noise conversations. I was actually an event earlier this week with 600 people in one room and it was just so noisy and I definitely need some sensory rest after that. I always find that kind of auditory rest is quite important for me. Next one is creative rest. So this can be actually, if you've almost been working on lots of hard problems, you know, almost like you've been doing lots of creative work, but then you can get a bit almost kind of creative out, you know, like it's like it's almost kind of too much and you need to kind of re. It talks here about like reawakening that creativity but. But probably by doing something else. You know, like nature or art is talked about quite a lot here. Emotional rest. Emotional rest. Particularly important, I think for people who, you know, some people really feel other people's emotions, like that transference thing. And if you are naturally a people pleaser, then I think often those people need emotional rest because you know, you're like, you're thinking about other people a lot more than you are, than you are yourself.

A (6:31)

The sort of weight of empathy.

B (6:33)

Yes. Social rest. And this is about surrounding yourself with relationships that kind of revive you rather than exhaust you. I was like, that's quite interesting. And then spiritual rest, which I think it doesn't have to be about religion, this one, or about a kind of higher sense of spirituality, but it's really about kind of purpose and belonging and meaning, kind of connecting to something that is beyond yourself. You know, like if we, if you sort of feel, I think this can be true for all of us, you know, and you've had really, really busy week and you've done lots of doing lots of tasks, but perhaps not zoomed out at all.

A (7:08)

It's actually quite a nice link to our next podcast, which is on Mattering, because I think that is very kind of connected to that idea of spiritual rest, feeling like that you matter.

B (7:16)

So what I really like here is that it's describing rest as like a dynamic process. So we all need different kinds of rest at different moments, that it doesn't stay the same. But also you can design it in a way that kind of works for you. So for example, if you're someone who's thinking, I am definitely a people pleaser, you probably need to take emotional rest really seriously. That's not the case for me. So I sort of go, well, for me, that one feels less useful. Whereas there might be some of the other ones, like the sensory rest, where you go, I'm self aware enough to know that I would find that hard. So then you can think about how you can design rest in.

A (7:53)

Well, we always talk about, with our podcast, we always want what we share to be useful for individuals, but also to be talked together in teams. Because we know that that's often where you're going to help each other the most and so where this stuff is.

B (8:05)

Really going to stick.

A (8:06)

And I think if you had this conversation, like, these are the seven different types of rest, which ones do you recognize are important to you? Where might you have some gaps in the questions Sarah and I are going to talk about? In a moment. I think not only do you learn more about each other, I think it gets rid of the judgment because, you know, if you said, oh, I need physical rest, I need to go for a walk, it's really important to me, then I would just say, oh, that's, that's because that type of rest is what Sarah needs right now. Whereas maybe my rest is creative Rest. And you just, you're sort of recognizing that different people rest in different ways. And it's not better or worse, it's just what's right for you. And then you can have a really interesting team conversation about it.

B (8:43)

So a few coach yourself questions to sort of get you started thinking about, like, what does this mean for me? If the seven different types of rest are the what? This bit is kind of the so what? And then Helen's personalization that we'll do at the end is the kind of now what? So we're kind of in so what? And then we'll move into kind of now what. So I thought the first question helpful for maybe for Helen to reflect on first, and I'll do it too, is where am I at my rest best? So where do you rest really well at the moment? And where's your current kind of biggest rest gap? Kind of your. It's sort of the what's working well and the even better if for rest for you right now?

A (9:19)

I think what's working well for me is probably either I can have two.

B (9:26)

I'm allowed to never pick one thing ever. Yes, you can have two. Because I'm like, it's a Friday afternoon. Like, I can't. I can't argue with you at this point of a week.

A (9:36)

Great. I'm going to ask all the difficult things now. So physical rest. Yeah, like, because I'm my sort of regular pelotoning. Yeah. I feel like that really, really helps me and I invest in it and I've got a good routine with it. And then I think social rest as well. I know that I know what energies recharge me. I really prioritize those. So I feel better because of that. Like, I feel well rested having spent time with certain people, and I make sure that that time is quite protected. So those things I think I do well. What about you?

B (10:07)

What was your gap?

A (10:08)

What's my gap? I actually think sometimes creative rest, because I think it's.

B (10:14)

Which is.

A (10:15)

I think it's an important point because people, sometimes people might think that creativity is just like artsy stuff. But I think in our job, we are constantly creating because we, you know, we have a new book out. So we are creating new workshops that we run for companies. We record a podcast, two podcasts every week. We write on LinkedIn. Like, we are constantly creating new sources of career support for people. And I think sometimes I'd just come back from holiday and that that was a lovely kind of period of rest for me. And. And I've got more creative energy coming back. Like, I've got more ideas for posts that I want, yeah, I want to do. And sometimes I just need that time away from creating, writing, recording to reconnect with my ideas.

B (10:57)

And also sounds a little bit like the spiritual one as well, maybe. You know, I did meditate quite a lot whilst I was away. Did you? Oh, we must have recorded an episode at some point about when we tried that meditation that you made me do. What was it called?

A (11:11)

It's called Vidic meditation. Yeah, I'm a fan nevertheless, so I.

B (11:15)

Didn'T even make it through the program, did I? Which probably tells you everything you need to know my rest best. I've made a really kind of conscious effort over the past three months to do more kind of physical rest. And that has looked like making some different decisions, stopping work at certain times to like go to a class. And I also really tried to set myself up for success based on how our work works. So I think sometimes I would almost complain that I wasn't getting to do physical rest and almost like blame work. Whereas I was like, actually no, if I accept that work works as it does. And actually I really like how our work works. But what it does mean is that I need physical rest that is really flexible. And also to stop giving myself excuses, you know, I can do this, I just need to be flexible about it. And so I now have four or five different apps on my phone all into a little folder. I think it just says like physical or something. Something like that.

A (12:13)

This is new for me.

B (12:14)

Yeah, I think I actually have used the word like physical, maybe fitness. Fitness, actually. But each of them is like a different place that I go to do exercise. So. So one of them is like the Reformer Studio I go to. Another one is like a hit class. Another one is Pineapple Studios where I sometimes go dancing. Another one is a place where I've now joined like a cheap, quite a basic gym. So actually the reason I've done that is that if I can't get to any class, which is always my preference, I haven't got any excuse because there is someone that I could go that's got a treadmill. And so I've sort of done that and I've set myself up so that actually in every week, it doesn't matter what is happening at work, at least once or twice a week I can. There's always. There's always a way to rest. And even last week I even just left my front door and went for a run, like, which never Happens. It was awful. The next day I felt awful, but I needed some other rest afterwards. So I was actually. I worked really hard on that one and I have felt better. And I know it's such a cliche, isn't it? The whole like, if you exercise, you feel better. But it is also. It's so annoying. It's like true. It's true. There's some exercise I really enjoy, but less so when it's just exercise for exercise sake. And sometimes I do have to do that. If it's sport, that's fine. Can I tell you about my weighted vest? No. Is this just like another trend that you're just like, oh, I'm going to jump on board.

A (13:28)

I love it. So I'm now hiking on my treadmill with a weighty gladiator whilst I watch various podcasts.

B (13:36)

When you say various podcasts, tell everybody what you watch.

A (13:38)

Every time. I'm really into.

B (13:41)

Because you message me about it every time.

A (13:43)

I love it. I literally message Sarah whilst I'm watching it. Diary CEO. But the behind the scenes bit I really like because you can you watch somebody building their business real time. Like so this is a complete tangent everyone. But he kind of. Stephen Bartlett talks about, wouldn't it have been amazing to have been behind the scenes watching Apple being built? And he's. I think that's his aspiration as an organization. So he's. He's kind of showing you gonna show.

B (14:08)

You how I'm building.

A (14:08)

Yeah, but it's really. You look at how he is hiring, how he recruits. I mean he gets thousands of applications for roles, how he has built things that help him test company fit and he's really open with it all. I would honestly say if anyone's interested in entrepreneurship running their own business, they already run their own business and they're trying to scale it. He's very open about what he does.

B (14:28)

Amazing, right? It's like to be. To be that transfer.

A (14:30)

I do that while I'm hiking with my weighted vest. I'm loving life.

B (14:33)

I listen to a lot of Dua Lipa because it's about the right. I put into like an AI what the beats per minute needs to be. When you run like what songs match the beats per minute and it gives you and loads of Dua Lipa songs like fit, obviously how fast I can run, which is not super fast. But she does help me go a bit faster. So I'm very grateful for her. And I think my biggest rest gaps I was like, that's why it's good to Keep coming back to this. Like, I know, I know this quite well, is probably social rest. So my friends. So are my friends who are not to do with work. So they're probably people I've met through work, but they're just, they are just my friends. I don't get to see my friends very often. I think with the mixture of, like, work, trying to do physical rest, my family. After that, your friends end up coming quite low down. And also it often takes quite a lot of effort because everybody's got lots going on in their lives. But every time I see my friends who are like friends first, I think I always just feel like, oh, yeah, it reminds me there's like a life outside, amazing if.

A (15:33)

And.

B (15:34)

And a life outside my family and, you know, like, because it's just for you. So commit to Christmas, though. I have got. And sometimes I can't make things, you know, so I always feel quite like, oh, I'm often not able to do this, but I have got one. I've got one of those. I'm really trying to protect and I do find the mental rest one. I don't think I have any coping tactics. I think when I'm fine, I'm fine, but when my brain is really busy, I need to do something differently. I sort of rely on just how my week is going. And I really noticed it actually this week where I had a couple of nights where I was just like, I need to go to sleep and all I was doing was thinking about, like, work stuff. It was like, you know, the worry list. And like, I feel like I probably wasn't working on those worries. I was literally just worrying.

A (16:16)

I can always tell when you're in that mode. Well, actually, I probably don't know how bad it is because a lot of you are keeping to yourself. And so, yeah, it's kind of the messages that I get from you, I. It's a lot of messages, but they're all about lots of different things. And so every five to 10 minutes there'll be another one, but it's on a different topic. And I know that's just because your brain is like.

B (16:35)

Like you said earlier, you know, it's the too many tabs open thing, probably. And it's also probably a little bit caused by we were saying we've both been on holiday back to back. See, Like, I mean, we can't feel too sorry for ourselves, right? We've. We've literally been on holiday, but then we haven't spent very much time together and then sometimes that ends up. I think that opens a lot more tabs.

A (16:52)

Yeah.

B (16:52)

Because we're always quite mindful of, like, you can't. There's only so much you can do. You can't close the tab until we've had a conversation. It's like. It's always an interesting insight. So, next question. What's the smallest action that you think you could take to start closing that rest gap that you've got? So if you took creative rest, if you were going, like, really small, because we're not really talking here about significant changes, like, what's something do you think you could perhaps experiment with or try out?

A (17:22)

Well, I think I know what it is, and I've talked about it before, and it just. It rarely gets sort of prioritized and protected in my diary. I think it's because I think about our creativity as a lot of, like, out. It's.

B (17:35)

It's. Yeah.

A (17:36)

Write, record, deliver.

B (17:38)

It's like, there's a lot of out.

A (17:39)

Of Helen's brain into the world. And I think a creative rest is just take it in, take it into.

B (17:45)

The world to you. Yeah.

A (17:46)

Which I. For me, one of the best ways of me doing that is reading. And I. And that's not just swiping through a couple of quick articles on my phone. Like, I was actually reading a book on the train this morning. I must have thought I was mad because I got my highlighters out and.

B (17:59)

I was there, like.

A (18:00)

And it was a really packed train. I was one of those, like, where you sit in six people.

B (18:04)

Do you know, that's one of my dreams, is to see someone reading our book with a highlighter. That'd be amazing, which I've never seen, but I would really. I would be so happy. I think that would, like, make my life.

A (18:14)

I feel like I might need to set it up. But, yeah, so I was, like, knee to knee with someone highlighting a book. And I was just thinking. And there were so many good, like, quotes. Like, I felt really inspired by what I was reading was really making me think. And that. That, for me is creative rest, because I'm focusing much more on what's going in my brain than kind of what goes out of it.

B (18:34)

Yeah. Interesting. And I thought about this as well. Particularly for my social rest, I think I sometimes rely on big moments where friends get together. So some of my friendship groups, like, we, you know, every, like, four or five months, we're like, oh, we'll get together. And then if you can't make it, you've obviously, you've, like, missed the Moment. And because it's quite a few people together, obviously then it's just like there's quite a lot to organize. And I actually don't see many of those friends just for coffee.

A (19:03)

Yeah.

B (19:04)

Or actually why I was like, oh, I could see some of those friends just by myself to get, like, to just get dinner and stuff. And often that's so much easier to organize. And I did have it once with one of the friends recently who actually lives quite close to me. And we were like, oh, on a Friday, should we meet up like halfway? And we just got a coffee and did a quick walk. And I was like, oh, that was so lovely. I don't. And it felt really rare. Yeah. And so I think for me it's sort of letting go of like, waiting for these friendship moments and just being like, oh, well, I'm. Most of my friends are around London. I'm in London on let's say Tuesday and Thursday next week. I wonder if either my friends are around to get a coffee on either of those days. Like, I could usually do that, but you know, it's like that intention and then like, doing it.

A (19:44)

It's a nice insight though, that. That you kind of wait for the bigger moments and yeah, you could create some smaller ones.

B (19:49)

Yeah. And I'm actually quite good at creating some of the bigger moments. I would like to my friends, we always have like a Christmas meal and I sort the day and I sort the venue. But again, I'm like. But then if that goes wrong, I wouldn't see those two people. So, you know, just like sometimes having those, like in between moments. And then last one, before we move on to the kind of. The really personalized rest is a who question. Because I do think, and you already slightly linked to it with what you were saying before. Like, who can support me to protect my rest at the moment? So that you're not just sort of flying solo, you are thinking, I suppose, unspotting. Is there like an interdependency here with making this rest happen? Do I need someone else to do something for this to be okay? Um, like, yeah, what. What would help me?

A (20:37)

I'd probably say the two Sarahs in my life. I actually have more than two Sarahs in my life. I think I'm about.

B (20:42)

I think I've about five Sarahs.

A (20:43)

But the two for this will probably be you, because I know that you would hold me to my account and you know, it's important to me. You probably, like, hold me to account and be like, come on, like. And I think you'd keep me to it. And then there is another Sarah in the world of amazing if who helps manage all the things that are happening in a week. And I think she could probably help me to protect the time. So I think you could probably help me to protect my commitment and accountability. She could help me protect the. You'd, like, be like a pincer movement between the two of you. And I feel like it has to happen.

B (21:11)

I also think the reason, selfishly, I would care about you doing that is I see how important that reading time is for you, for them, what you bring back. Because I suppose I see the outcomes and the output of that. Because actually, you read in a really different way to me. I think I'm more of like an always on. Whereas you sort of go deep, go quiet, and you're like, really? You could read like two books in a day. Which actually I would. I would really rarely do. And so I think I sort of go, oh, so, well, what books are you going to read? And then, like, what did you learn? And then you will often leave me, like a voice note with like, oh, I really liked this book for these reasons. And this is what I've learned. Bit like, when you've done your walks with the old diary of the CEO weighted vest thing, I usually get a voice note, but I'm always quite interested in those. I'm like, oh, yeah, that is. I feel like I'm learning by osmosis from you. And I think when you do the reading, I learn. But then also I think, like, the team learns and kind of. We all learn. So that's kind of a good incentive, I guess. Also, I can ask you probably questions other people can't. Like, well, when are you next doing that? And if you said to me, like, I can't, I'm too busy, I'm like, oh, I could probably be like, you would? Yeah, like, okay, well, what are you busy doing? What could you. You know, I can ask you harder questions than the other Sarah, who's much nicer than me, would ever. Would ever ask. And I think he could support me. I think I could actually think a little bit about my time when I'm in. Because when I'm in London, you know, sometimes you pack your time in too tightly and then you're like, well, I can't have a coffee with anyone because every single moment I'm in London, I'm either in a meeting or delivering a workshop. And I think I could just keep space. And again, Sarah can help us with that. Keep Space where I'm like, I'm gonna have a coffee with a friend at this point, and it sort of doesn't matter who it is. I'll find a friend to have a coffee with at that moment. But then just see that as important as being as important as whatever else I'm doing that day.

A (22:56)

I wonder whether it's the equivalent of. Remember when you. In your previous role, before this one.

B (23:02)

You said, like, a life for amazing.

A (23:04)

If I know there was. But you used to have, like, you know, have a coffee with Sarah thing at this time. But you could have, like, you know, let's say once a month you have a Friday where you're working in London, and you always keep the Friday morning. And you go, yeah. And say, oh, you know, if you're free for coffee on a Friday, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep this free. And if someone takes the time, great. And if they don't, you've probably got 101 other things to get done in that. Yeah, but I did.

B (23:26)

I did. This is a long time ago, actually. I did used to have a boss who we'd always meet in the same coffee shop on a Tuesday morning. Sacred. And it. Yeah, it was called Sacred. Is Sacred still there?

A (23:36)

I don't know.

B (23:36)

It was good coffee. And I think those coffee moments were really important to me, partly also just like, the ritual and the rhythm of it. And I think that's probably what I'm missing a bit. Though I probably wouldn't choose a Friday, because I think if this is a Friday and we are in London, having got on the train this morning, clearly it's the day that everybody works from home. So I think if I said, oh, I'm gonna meet my friends on a Friday, everyone would be like, well, we're not, because none of us. None of us are actually in London. But, you know, like, small things like that, you could think, well, Friday is probably the day that I'm freest, so I'll do it. Then you're like, well, yeah, but not if no one else is around. So you then took the work that I did on these seven types of rest, and then you went, right, I want to make it even more personal to me. Yeah. What prompt did you use? Do you want to have a read? Yeah.

A (24:18)

So I actually played with a few different prompts. I was putting it into ChatGPT, but this would work in whatever tool you want to use. And my aim was, how can I get. Get this prompt to kind of understand me so that it can make me some rest recommendations that feel really unique and relevant and like doable. You know, not like that. Yeah, get up at 5am and do something creative. Like, I know I did say one.

B (24:43)

Of them was genuinely in one of the recommendations. It does say book yourself into a massage. And I did think, sure, maybe like once a year. Yeah, you know, like that. That's not going to be like, that's not going to solve things, is it?

A (24:53)

So this is the prompt and we'll put this in the pod sheet so you can literally just, you know, copy and paste this and try it out for yourself. Act as my squiggly career coach and use this article and you insert the link to the article that Sarah found for this episode today. Use this article and ask me one short and specific question at a time to collect insights and identify my personal REST profile. Generate three personalized and practical recommendations for rest that I could add into my week. And so what that will do is it will just ask you a series of questions. You type out your response to each one. So, you know, one of the ones was, you know, do you find it difficult to sleep at night because you've got a lot on your mind.

B (25:29)

Yes.

A (25:29)

And you can do it.

B (25:30)

I always try to give it a little bit more.

A (25:32)

Like I'd be like, oh, no, I.

B (25:34)

Can go to sleep.

A (25:35)

Well, but sometimes I get distracted when. So I tried to give it because the more you give it, the more it's going to get to know you. And then you'll go through your series of questions and then it will come up with your rest profile and your rest recommendations. So, for example, my rest profile, it said that my strengths, weirdly it said my strengths were creative, creative rest, social and spiritual rest. That's because of all the friendships and the meditating and then my gaps, which probably are true. It said my gaps are mental because mental and sensory. Like I'm thinking about all of our stuff and I'm constantly on a device. That's where it got those from. And physical.

B (26:10)

What is interesting is it is the opposite to what you said for yourself, which doesn't make you wrong. It's just that interesting. By answering those questions, you get to it. It's like a different perspective. Or I guess you could challenge the GPT.

A (26:21)

Yeah.

B (26:22)

And say, well, oh, I actually think I'm. Because you could argue, you could say, well, I'm good at physical rest. But maybe the way that you answer the questions interprets it as, oh, you're not as good as you want to be. Yeah.

A (26:31)

For example, Yeah I think it probably stress tests your self awareness yeah because it's really, it's really asking you questions that are specific and so then it identifies you some rest recommendations that are specific to your profile. So mine for example I got three do a mind reset between meetings so that you've not got that kind of mental overload quite like that and it's go tell you how to do it be phone free for the first 30 minutes of the day. Sarah doubted that that was doable for.

B (26:58)

Me but then you reminded me what time you got up and I then I said maybe it was more doable.

A (27:03)

I think I get up at 5:30 and I have been meditating in the morning so I'm not, I'm not that far away from that. Meditate for 20 minutes without phone.

B (27:10)

No, you've only got to add 10.

A (27:10)

Minutes and have a shower I'm done.

B (27:13)

Have a shower, shower, meditate done.

A (27:15)

30 minutes I own phone free and then movement moments which quite like this one it says book some body breaks into your diary which could just be going if I'm at home I could just kind of go for a bit of a walk like down the road around kind of my, my garden. I live in a forest so I could just have a little stroll in the forest for, for 10 minutes or so or if I'm in London Sarah knows this We've literally sat in the same space for like the whole day But I struggle to leave a room or a location cause I just want to get more and more done but.

B (27:45)

She hasn't let me leave this room or this location today.

A (27:47)

Bad friend and business partner. But if I was scheduling in some.

B (27:51)

Movement moments if you, if we were doing this I would get to leave.

A (27:55)

On another day perhaps I might go for a coffee a bit further away than the room next door.

B (28:01)

What an aspiration that would be to leave, to leave a building.

A (28:05)

We will not leave, we will get more done but I think it's quite useful. The other thing like Sarah and I were sort of looking at what I'd recommended and saying actually should we challenge some of that? So I think the good thing about this is not only do you get some, maybe it's a bit more self awareness you get some personalised recommendations if you're feeling a little bit stuck on what you can do with rest you can also challenge it and say well 30 minutes phone free in the morning doesn't work for me. What else could you suggest instead until you get to some ideas that do.

B (28:31)

Feel useful for you I think I would also then build on ideas that you feel are right for you with a when question. I always love when questions because it helps you to spot specific situations. I think it holds you to account.

A (28:45)

So.

B (28:46)

So if Helen is going to do these body breaks, these movements, movement moments during her day, my next question would always be like, well, when are you realistically most likely to do that? So are you thinking, like, in the middle of the day? Is it going to change every day? How long is it going to be for? Are you going to put those in your diary at the start of every week? Because otherwise it just kind of probably won't happen. And so I think asking yourself when around rest kind of really makes a difference. And it can just be like, this morning I do go for a lot of walks, and this morning I had a really short window of time to go for a walk before starting my day, but I still went and I think and I did a really short walk. I had to be back really fast and I was like, I mean, it was barely worth it, but I still felt better because I'd sort of got outside, just moved a bit, and then I think I was in much better spirits for them being in the same room all day because I did that as well. And I did leave you. Yeah, I did leave you two voice notes, but that's an insight into a different rest issue that we both have. But I do also really like your suggestion of, you know, every so often asking a team where people are, because I do think the thing I like the most about this is I honestly think during a year, this changes for everybody all of the time. If you'd asked me about physical rest six months ago, I wasn't in such good shape, just like, actually physically wasn't in such good shape, but I just wasn't doing as much exercise as I am now. And so now I feel quite proud of. I do feel quite. Try quite hard to do more exercise. So it can also be a bit of a point of pride for people. So we're recording this in November. If you're thinking about team things to do towards the end of the year, we often talk about, like, pride postcards or like, what. What do you feel kind of proud of? I think asking everybody, like, what do you feel proud of around, like, how you've rested this year is a really good question and maybe one that will prompt people to think, actually, do you know, I do need to do a bit more of this as I go into kind of next year as well.

A (30:37)

I feel like a reflections on rest session where maybe you spend sort of 10, 15 minutes talking about the seven areas and use the questions that we did with each other and then you use five minutes with the prompt and see what it generated and then you share back those insights together with the team and maybe make a bit of a rest commitment.

B (30:54)

Yeah, really nice.

A (30:55)

Quite a nice half an hour to spend as a team together.

B (30:57)

So that's everything for this week. As Helen mentioned earlier, our next episode is going to be on mattering. Kind of quite an interesting topic, one that we might not know loads about, but we will know more by the end of the next episode. If there are topics you'd like us to cover, things that you would like us to borrow brilliance from. If you've got ideas, you can always email us. We're Helenand Sarahquigglycareers.com and please do share the podcast. Subscribe, give us some feedback. We read everyone and it makes a really big difference to us and our work. So thank you to everyone who's already done that because we know lots of you do. And for those people who come back every week, we really do appreciate it.

A (31:34)

That's everything for now, everyone. See you next week.

B (31:36)

Bye for now. Bye, everyone.