Podcast Summary: Squiggly Careers

Episode: The Marshmallow Test - How to Master Delayed Gratification for Career Success

Hosts: Sarah Ellis and Helen Tupper
Date: November 11, 2025

Overview

In this engaging episode, hosts Sarah Ellis and Helen Tupper dive into the legendary Marshmallow Test to unpack the concept of delayed gratification, its connection to career success, and how making conscious "one marshmallow" versus "two marshmallow" decisions can shape our professional lives. Using relatable stories, workplace scenarios, and a healthy dose of humor, they discuss how understanding and mastering delayed gratification can help you make smarter choices for your "squiggly" (nonlinear, values-driven) career.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Marshmallow Test and Its Lessons

• Background: The Marshmallow Test, a classic psychology study, presented children with a choice: eat one marshmallow now or wait 15 minutes and have two marshmallows. The ability to wait (delayed gratification) was correlated with greater success later in life.
• Career Application: Immediate actions (one marshmallow decisions) often feel good in the moment but may short-circuit bigger, longer-term benefits (two marshmallow decisions). Sarah and Helen explore how this plays out in daily workplace scenarios.

Notable Quote

“Our days and weeks are full of one marshmallow decisions that we often do without thinking because of habits that we’ve got into. If you can start just thinking, what will the two marshmallow payoff be here? With that in mind, what choice do I want to make?”
— Helen (01:34)

2. Ladder Careers vs. Squiggly Careers

• Ladder Careers: More traditional, focused on role progression and immediate rewards such as promotions.
• Squiggly Careers: More about long-term fit, fulfillment, and self-awareness. May require passing up "shiny" short-term opportunities for deeper values-based growth.

Example

Helen discusses a colleague who made a lateral move into digital, delaying the gratification of a higher role and pay, but developing more marketable skills for her future (06:38).

“That takes a lot of confidence to delay that gratification. But also then obviously I’ve seen how she’s kind of squiggled after that and it’s totally paid off.”
— Sarah (06:38)

3. Daily Workplace Scenarios: Identifying One vs. Two Marshmallow Choices

a) Email Management

• One Marshmallow: Replying instantly to emails to feel responsive and in control.
• Two Marshmallow: Limiting checking/responding to set times daily, improving focus and deep work quality.

“The payoff, the two marshmallows that you get is you’re likely to be more efficient and effective with the rest of the work that you do that day, because you’re not task switching, you’re not distracted, you’re not wasting your time.”
— Helen (11:02)

• The hosts personally reflect:
  • Sarah feels “in control” when checking emails frequently but recognizes the potential quality and efficiency gain by delaying.
  • Helen admits she likes to be helpful and responsive but sees the value in changing.

b) People-Pleasing and Saying “Yes”

• One Marshmallow: Saying yes to help everyone, immediately feeling helpful and valued.
• Two Marshmallow: Saying no strategically, making space for priorities and greater impact.

“The two marshmallow option is to say no... the outcome is you can have more impact. I think it just makes you a more impactful person.”
— Sarah (18:46)

• Helen finds it harder to say no inside her own company but sees the pride and self-respect gained from making intentional choices.

“When I say no because… I don’t maybe it’s like a little bit self-respect… I feel a bit proud of myself.”
— Helen (20:22)

c) Job Applications

• One Marshmallow: Reactively applying for any appealing position posted, seeking instant closure.
• Two Marshmallow: Proactively building relationships around future roles of interest, increasing chances that opportunities come to you.

“The delayed gratification thing here is that’s going to take longer…but the payoff is that jobs come to you. That’s the big marshmallow—the big chunky one.”
— Helen (27:13)

• Sarah notes how nurturing professional connections can generate unexpected opportunities, sometimes years later.

4. Reflection and Personal Application

• Helen and Sarah encourage listeners to start tracking their “one” vs. “two” marshmallow decisions, aiming for awareness rather than perfection.
• Personalizing payoffs: The key is connecting “two marshmallows” to something genuinely motivating.

Notable Quotes

“No one’s perfect. If you’re always doing too marshmallowing, you’re too perfect. That’s nobody.”
— Sarah (09:18)

“If you can start just thinking… what would the two marshmallow payoff be here? And with that in mind, what choice do I want to make?”
— Helen (29:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Reflection:
  “I have got better at the saying no because I know that my payoff will be better with people outside of Amazing if… but I really struggle inside our business.”
  — Helen (18:46)

• Humorous Analogy:
  “Now we’re getting into like those little tiny ones, the ones that you get on hot chocolate.”
  — Sarah (20:53)

• On Experimenting:
  “I think I would pick a day… probably a Friday. I’d try it on a Friday and I’d be like, can I hold out for the two marshmallows on a Friday? Okay, I’ll have a go.”
  — Sarah (15:29)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:03 — Introduction to the Marshmallow Experiment
• 05:13 — "Ladder" vs. "Squiggly" career gratification
• 10:18 — Example scenario: Email habits (one vs. two marshmallow)
• 16:42 — Example scenario: People-pleasing and saying yes
• 23:20 — Example scenario: Job hunting tactics
• 29:19 — Final reflections on increasing awareness and making intentional choices
• 30:10 — Resource recommendation: James Clear’s article on delayed gratification

Additional Resources

James Clear Article (on delayed gratification and strategies):
Mentioned as a recommended further read for those interested in practical tips on making two marshmallow decisions. (30:10)

Squiggly Careers in Action Newsletter:
A roundup of podcast content, tools, stories, and research for ongoing inspiration (30:38).

Tone, Style & Atmosphere

• Conversational, humorous, and supportive with an emphasis on practicality.
• Both hosts share personal successes and struggles, making concepts accessible and relatable.
• Frequent self-deprecation and light teasing between Sarah and Helen add warmth and humanity.

Conclusion

The episode offers a practical, thought-provoking lens to view daily decisions at work: Are you taking the "one marshmallow" or investing in the "two marshmallows"? By increasing awareness and aligning your choices with long-term goals and motivations, you can design a career path that's both more fulfilling and successful—no matter how squiggly it is.

For more ideas, weekly tools, and inspiration, sign up for the Squiggly Careers in Action newsletter at amazingif.com.