← Stand to Reason Weekly Podcast
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- [00:29]
A
All right, friends, thank you for being part of the show today. And I am still somewhat reeling by the news of last week and kind of working through some of these things myself, as everyone is generally in the fall, I offer some thoughts for Christian students going away to college. Some of you now it's almost approaching the end of September, have already left. All right. And you've made your decision and you know what school you're going to and whatever. And so I, I want to offer a couple of things that might be helpful. I had another question also that was sent in about just how do we where is it as school starts up? What are some good strategies for being aware of what is taught or shown in school that might go against Christianity? Do I be bold and upfront and set the precedents, or do I bide my time to see if anything sets off the alarm bells? That's the question in general. And so let me just offer a couple of thoughts. And this is for followers of Jesus. Not everybody is listening. Who is listening? It falls in that category. I get it. And if you're not, I'm glad you're listening. And I hope that I'm not going to try to convert you today. Actually, I never try to convert anybody. I don't think of it in those terms. I just want to annoy you in a good way. All right. I want to do some gardening with a sharp spade and maybe put a stone in your shoe.
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B
I to want.
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A
Okay. But for those who are followers of Jesus, you are entering into a very dangerous area. I have two daughters. One is 20 and one is 17. They are both out of high school. And so far they've been continuing to live at home because they're going to local junior college, which is fine with me. All right. But I know the challenges that are out there. And so I want to Many of you young people are gone, or your folks, your kids have gone or your grandkids have gone. They're off. And I often say this, like in springtime to youth groups when I'm asked what do we need to look for or be careful of when we go off to university? And I think that they are looking for me to say something about some ideology or some apologetic type issue. You're going to be challenging the Bible or this, that and the other thing. And here's the way to deal with it. But that isn't what I say. I don't think the biggest challenge that any Christian student is going to face is going to be that the biggest challenge they're going to face is sex. May surprise you to hear me say that, but think about it. I mean, this is when like young people, male and female, but especially males, are surging with hormones. They're in a transition in their life, they're looking for love. And that's all normal. Nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind this is all happening in a fallen individual in the context of a fallen culture. And the culture you're finding yourself in right now is probably a whole lot more fallen than where you just left. Because if you're a Christian and you're with a Christian family, with a Christian community and a Christian church and a Christian youth group, you got a lot of help. But when you get in that car and get driven to your school or get on the airplane and fly out there and you're in your dorm and everything's different, then guess what? Everything's different. And I'm not questioning your love for Jesus. I'm just saying everything's different. And the temptation is going to be much more difficult for you when you are the odd person out in your culture. And I'm not just referring to those people who are at a non Christian school. It also is the case for many who are at so called Christian schools. That is, they're identified as a Christian school. They might have a statement of faith associated with the school and whatever, but nevertheless, this is a problem for all schools. And therefore you need to be on your guard. And there's a couple things that will help you to be on your guard in this regard. And that is that you have a clear understanding of what God expects. That's kind of 1A of what God expects. And that is sexual purity. Jesus, what formula for marriage? Matthew 19, the way I put it, is one man with one woman becoming one flesh for one lifetime. One man with one woman becoming one flesh for one lifetime. Now that one flesh part is what I'm talking about now because that's sex. And what he's saying is that sex is reserved for a man and a woman in a lifetime relationship that he intends never to be broken. That is the safest way. So 1A is doing what you're supposed to do it. 1B is understanding that God has arranged it this way for your good, to protect you and to protect your children and your husband or your wife in the long run. And if we would obey God in this regard, our lives are going to be a whole lot better. There will be a lot less trouble. Now the temptation of the culture is just to think in the short Term, man, you're saying no, this stuff is fun, man. You're saying no to that. Yeah, it may be fun, but it's also deadly. And lots of people learn this when it's too late. So I'm just saying if you understand God's view and understand that his purposes for you in sexual purity are good for you, that'll be easier. I'll tell you the other thing that makes it easier is you're not out there alone. So when you go to a new location, and this actually applies to virtually anywhere, any time in life, anywhere in the world, you find the body of Christ in that location and you attach yourself to them. Now on campus, this might be a campus group like crew or ratio Christi or etc. But attach yourself there so that there are people who know you and you know them and you can be close to them. And they're keeping an eye on you and encouraging you and building you up and teaching you. And they're there for you. So when things get tough, they can help pull you out of trouble. You need that. And if you don't do that, you are really going to be vulnerable. It is so hard to do Christianity alone. That's why the writer of Hebrews says in chapter 10, do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, as is the habit of some. Don't do that. You've heard the illustration of the fire. You pull all the logs apart when they're by themselves, the whole fire goes out. You want to be connected with other believers. STR is here for you too. You can call me anytime during office hours. That would be like now, Tuesday evening, afternoon four to six and we can talk. Go to our website, str.org that's fine, we got lots of stuff there for you. But don't do this on your own. Do not do this on your own. Now there is this other element here and I. I don't have all my notes in front of me. Like I usually speak from, like reminding me of these little tidbits for you going off to school. So I'm just going from memory right now and those are the things I remember. And that sex thing is the first one. And to protect yourself from getting off the reservation in a number of different areas, you want to be with other Christians. So that community of the body of Christ. By the way, there's so called Christian groups out there too. So I was at Kennesaw State in the Atlanta area last week and there's a group there, they used to be called I Think they're called either the Boston group or the International Church of Christ. These are not the Church of Christ crowd or the Christian church crowd. This is a different kind of group with that name. And they are very aggressive in their discipleship and including people in. And that seems great, except their teaching is bad, all right? So you got to be careful that what you're connecting with is a group that's sound and orthodox. And if you're not sure about it, give me a call and we'll talk about it. So, and the other little wrinkle here has to do with how aggressive are you in those circumstances when odd things come up. And this particular questioner says, what are good strategies for being aware of what is taught in school that might go against Christianity? The best strategy for that is to understand Christianity. I mean, when you know the phony. I'm sorry, you know the real thing, you'll see the phony immediately. And there's all kinds of stuff that are going to pop up contrary to Christianity. It's not going to take a pile of discernment for you to see what ain't right. All right? But the other question I think is more challenging to answer is how do you comport yourself? Do you be bold and upfront, set the precedents, like right out of the gate, hey, I'm the Christian. And so I'm going to keep my eye on you, professor, or bide my time to see if anything sets off the alarm bells. I guess I'm thinking now, when I was at UCLA and I was a brand new Christian, I wasn't even a year old in Christ. I became a Christian when I was at ucla. I finished out that year, which was the, let's see, 73, 74 year. And I was already living in a Christian community right there off the edge of campus. And so when I was done with 74 at UCLA, then I was studying the Bible in that Christian community. And it wasn't weird, a commune during the 60s? Yeah, kind of, but it was not weird, all right? It was very cool. And so I had some classes as a new Christian and I had philosophy class. I remember asking a philosophy professor. Actually, the class I took was a class on philosophy, philosophy class. And the professor said, my goal here is to prove to you that the God of the Bible does not exist. That's my whole goal. So I'm quoting Francis Schaeffer, right? Because I'm reading him and really being influenced. And he's a very thoughtful guy with a lot of philosophic categories. But he's not a well known philosopher, certainly not in the secular world. And I asked the professor, well, you know Francis Schaeffer, right? No, never heard of him. You don't know who Francis Schaeffer is? You know, it's like. And you call yourself a philosophy professor? No, I'd never heard of him. So I was fairly aggressive. I was fairly aggressive with my teachers and I don't think that helped. And if I were to go back now, and this is advice for you if you're in school or if you're a parent trying to help your child who is in school, I guess I would want to. What's the right word? I think it's called sandbag. Sandbagging is when you're playing cards, you got a really good hand, but you're trying to not let other people know you got a really good hand and then you pounce, then you reveal the hand when you win, you know, and oh, you're sandbagging man, poker face. So I would want to lay back a little bit and get the lay of the land so that I could not. So I'm trying to avoid getting into trouble or being embarrassed by the professor who calls me out. And no, that's not my motivation. My motivation is to be the most effective ambassador for Christ that I can in that particular circumstance. That's my motivation. And as I know now, many years later, half a century later, I realized that asking questions, carefully targeted questions with an unassuming manner, think Lt. Colombo. If you've ever seen the Lt. Colombo on TV, he comes in under the radar, right? He's not scary at all. He doesn't seem to be a threat. So I'm going to be scratching my head and wondering and I'm going to ask questions for clarification's sake and then when I may then pursue more questions. But I am not going to make an argument in a class because I'm not the teacher. I'm not saying there's never a case to answer a teacher who's challenging aggressively. I'm just saying there are better ways, ways to do it. That usually is not going to work. It'd be better to use your tactics. And I talk about this when I talk about in the tactics book and I talk about the professor's ploy and how you can maneuver using questions in a circumstance where the professor is going after Christianity now. And therefore by your careful use of questions, you can not only get more clear on the professor's view, but get an understanding of his rationale for his view, if he has one. Probably he does as a professor. And if there are any problems, you can maybe ask other questions. This would be Columbus 3 to expose the weakness or the flaw. Now, of course, he may figure out if you're a little bit too aggressive, especially which I'm suggesting you not be. You may figure out, oh, you're the sandbagging Christian. You're laying low. You know, you're in the dugout and you're shooting mortar rounds over the top so that you might hit the professor and he's going to try to call you out. In that circumstance, I would try to be as shrewd as possible. If he asked me, are you a Christian? Maybe I'd say, why does that matter, Professor? There you go. It's a question. Then he could tell me, and then I might say, well, frankly, I'd rather not answer that question. But just so you know, if I chose not to answer that question, which obviously he knows the answer in my response. It's not so I can avoid being identified as a Christian. It's so I can avoid being somehow pigeonholed or trapped by the professor in the series of questions he's putting on me. You get my point here. I'm trying to be coy and shrewd, and there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, professor, I don't want to answer that question. That's right with you, because it's not pertaining to the class. My questions are of you and what you've said here in class. So I figure that's fair game. You don't have to be pushed around and you don't have to answer a question that you don't want to answer. Now, there is a risk when you do this. The risk is that man has the power or that woman has the power because they have the red pen. You know, like as in Mr. B with the red pen. They could rent pen you or your paper or worse. And this is really the point, your grade. So it might cost you something in your grade because you've identified yourself as a Christian who are offering challenges. No, you just have to ask yourself the question whether in this particular issue, it's worth the price. It may not be. I mean, sometimes there's no sense poking the bear. It isn't going to do any good, and it's just going to do some harm for you. So this is where shrewdness comes in. You're going to have to make your own decision, decisions about that. And the decisions may be different for different people in the same situation. There's a personal element here. Different people at different groups, gifts and different temperaments. All right? And so you just have to choose the hill that you die on. Hopefully you don't die, figuratively speaking, here, but nevertheless, you want to be wise. So those are some thoughts I think that will help regarding this particular question and especially the issue of going away from your home and your family and your church and your youth group and your footloose and fancy free. Nobody's looking over your shoulder, right? If you are not really, really, really good at self regulation and very few teenagers are even Christian ones, you're going to need some help. And that's why you want to get a new set of people looking over your shoulder. Okay. All right, let's take a break and we'll come back with your calls on Stand to Reason. You know, if you've gained anything from listening to Stand to Reason, I'd really be thrilled to hear from you. I love to take your questions, of course, but I also want your feedback. So here's what you can do. Head over to itunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a rating and a review. That kind of thing really helps us to get the word out so more ambassadors for Christ can find the show and become equipped to stand confidently. And you never know, I might just give you a shout out on the air to show you my appreciation for your positive review. I value you as a faithful listener. I look forward to reading what you think about the show. Thanks. Have you ever wondered how Stand to Reason is able to produce fresh, accessible content? Each week we rely on generous donors so that we can provide you with the tools and tactics you need to be an effective ambassador for Christ. If you've benefited from this podcast or any of our donor provided resources, including our apps, blog posts, articles and short videos, consider making a financial contribution to Stand to Reason today. Just visit str.orgdonate to show your financial support. It has been an honor providing you with a host of free resources for more than 27 years to help you give voice to the Christian worldview. Help us continue by making a financial gift today@str.org donate would you like an STR speaker to speak at your event? Greg, Allen, Tim and John are available both in person and online. Simply email bookingstr.org to schedule them today. Our speakers can address a wide range of topics from bioethics, gender issues and science to theology, philosophy, and how to respond to other worldviews, all from a biblical perspective. Whether it's a Sunday sermon conference or online event. We are here to equip Christians to effectively influence the culture for Christ. To explore speaker bios, learn more about the topics we cover, or discover additional options, visit str.org then email bookingstr.org to secure Greg, Alan, Tim, or John for your event. Okay, to the phones and in New York, this is Paul. Paul, I was in New York City last week.
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B
Oh, you should have given me a call. I'm just kidding.
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A
Yeah, I think it was Midtown Manhattan.
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B
Oh, yeah. Well, I'm from the city, born and raised, now live in the Hudson Valley, just.
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A
Oh, well, that's got to be an improvement. I was in the. I was actually probably six blocks or so from the Empire State Building in the. I think they call it the. The flower district or something like that. You know, where they sell all the plants, flowers and stuff like that. What is that? That's an area. I mean, they were everywhere. I felt I was in an alley on the street where our hotel was. It was an. I felt like it was an alley with all these plants there and, you know, vans on either side and selling stuff and you couldn't hardly get a car up there, but, you know, all the big tall. Yeah.
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B
I mean, it is pretty amazing how they have these certain areas of the city that are dedicated to meatpacking and diamonds and. Yes.
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A
Well, I'm glad it wasn't interesting. I'm glad it wasn't meatpacking. I mean, flowers are okay, you know, ham hocks and ribs and whatever. That's. I'm glad you knew that. I didn't want to think about that, but I did, to be honest. Well, you're not in New York City anymore, so you're out in the country, it sounds like. I did not like the city. I'm just to put it. My wife would have. I have this joke. It's like too much diversity, you know. So anyway, I was kind of. I was just there for two days or I came in Sunday night, left Tuesday morning or what.
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B
I tell people, Greg, who are asking me about what it's like to live in this area, I say, hey, listen, you know, high taxes, poor governance, marginal safety. What's not to like?
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Yeah, right. There you go. And it looks like it's going to get a lot worse really soon, so we'll see. But you're in the Hudson River Valley now or something like that. That's nice, isn't it?
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B
Yes. Up near the oddly named town called Fish Kill.
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A
Fish Kill, all right, Fish Kill.
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But it's in yeah. Okay, so I'm a multi decade supporter and.
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A
Wow.
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Listener. But. But a first time caller because I have this frightened, frightening opportunity that I would love your input about.
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A
Yeah.
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B
A local but nationally prestigious university near me has a very active postgraduate center for lifelong learning. And it's made up mostly of retired, you know, professionals and academics, probably 90 to 95% liberal. But we've had a retired district attorney from our church kind of infiltrate the board to try to help to convince them to make more sensible options available for, for learning, including religion and faith. So they are about to offer a four week course on the following topic. The topic is my God is right and your God is wrong. And I've been chosen because my pastor, who was supposed to do this from the evangelical perspective, had something come up and he's not able to do it. So I am stepping into the gap in week two. In week one, there will be a secular risk. Week two is me. Week three is an imam, and week four is a gay, liberal Episcopalian. So I mean, my question, my overarching question is how do you suggest that I approach this? I mean, because I certainly probably wouldn't concentrate on them being wrong. But you know, the first thing I thought of is a lot of what you talk about is when I, when we talk about my goddess. Right. I mean, his is the word that, you know, his word portrays the most accurate, AKA right assessment of, you know, the way things are.
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A
Yes, right. I think that's a good way to phrase it. Let me ask you, are you an academic yourself?
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B
I am. I was, but I've been out of that for a long time. I just had my own business and just retired.
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A
So. Do you.
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B
I'm one of them.
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A
Do you have a PhD or something like that or.
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B
No, I do not. I do not.
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A
But that's okay. It's not necessary. Are the people that you'll be engaged with actually you're not engaging anybody. It's each week there's a different person making the case for his own view. Is that right?
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Correct.
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A
Oh, okay.
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Correct.
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Oh, okay. Well, that's better because you're not, you're not having a crossfire circumstance. And that is an entirely different enterprise in making your case. So I'm just thinking if I were asked to do one session, how long is the session?
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B
35 minutes and then 35 minutes and then, you know, 10 minute Q& A at the end.
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A
Okay. All right. Now what's a little bit interesting about. It's just you and me right now and we got almost A half hour to go, so we might get other callers, but I don't mind just taking some time with you. This could be an instructive time for others listening in who may be able to use some of the things I say in their own unique circumstances. All right, one of the advantages of what you have here is every player is making the claim that his view is correct. Now, a lot of times, this isn't the way it plays out or it isn't the way it looks. The fact is that everybody who has a view believes their view is right. Every person who believes anything believes their view is right because a belief just is to hold that the content of the belief is correct. You can't say, I believe something, but I think I'm mistaken. But I am mistaken. Whatever you might say, I may be mistaken, but you don't think you are. Okay, but it's only the Christian who gets faulted. Oh, you think you're right and everybody else is wrong is what they say. Well, of course that's exactly true about their view. So they think they're right, and anybody who disagrees with them is wrong. But only the Christian usually gets faulted for it. So this is an advantageous circumstance because you're dealing with four different positions or four different sessions where each person is arguing for the truth of his own view. Okay, now let me think for a second. If one's an imam, one's a liberal, Episcopal, gay, affirming person, who's the. You have the biblical Christian theist, secularist and an atheist.
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Yeah. An agnostic. And he's just so, you know, he's already kind of given away, like, the gist of his presentation. He told me, he says, I'm really coming at this from the blind men and the elephant perspective and the coexist bumper sticker that like, we all.
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A
Yeah.
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You know, we all need to get along because we all have parts of the truth and.
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Okay, well, that is very good. That's a valuable piece of information. He's going to precede you, right?
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Yes.
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Okay. Part of the difficulty for you here is you got 35 minutes, that's all. That's not much to make a case. All right, so I'm just going to do, like, stream of consciousness. All right. And you can take notes or you can listen to this again or whatever, you know, at your leisure. By the way, how much time do you have before you have to give your presentation?
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B
Mid October, so about three to four weeks.
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A
Okay, good. Good for you. This is great. I have a piece Online. Amy, you can double check this for me, but I think it's called the Trouble with the Elephant. The Trouble with the Elephant. All right? And I think it might be in one of my books. I talk about this maybe in the tactics book, but yeah, that's it. The Trouble with the Elephant. You get it@str.org so I'm just going to let you know the problem with that illustration. It does not illustrate what it means to illustrate. You have five blind men that are or whatever and that encounter an elephant and they encounter different parts of this large animal and they draw the wrong conclusion about the whole thing. Okay? And what they are told is they don't see the whole thing because they're blind. And you have to put them all together and you're going to get the whole thing. All right? That's kind of the way it works. Here's the key. Who is it that tells them that they're mistaken? It's the Rajah. This is the way this parable goes. I took the characterization of it from a book for this article I wrote, so I get it just right. There's a Rajah, he's waking because these guys are arguing out in the yard there. And he comes out on the balcony and he says, hey, the elephant's a big creature. You have each have a part of it. Put them all together and you really have a picture of the whole. Alright, but notice that this illustration shows there has to be someone who has a privileged view of the whole thing to correct the ones that are mistaken. All right, but notice the way people employ this illustration is they're employing it to say that no one has a privileged view. We all have a particular part and they all kind of lead to the same place. Right, but see, that isn't the lesson. That's not the lesson that you take from the parable because of the way the parable is constructed. So my question with regards to the elephant that I'd ask and all of this is in the article. So I'm just giving you a thumbnail sketch here. My question is, given the parable, where would you place yourself? Now, there's only two options in terms of characters. Either one of the blind men or the Rajah who sees everything as it really is, and he's given the advice, okay, where would you place yourself for the person who raises this illustration? Where would you place yourself? Now, I know where he thinks I am. He thinks I'm one of those blind people. So I want to know where he thinks he is. Now, if he's blind. Well, then why should I listen to what he says? He's just as blind as I am. But if he's the Rajah that sees the world as it really is, why is he in a position of privileged observation that sees the truth when the rest of us don't see the truth? In virtue of what does he get to declare? What the world's actually like? This is dealing directly with that parable. All right. That is offered. You follow the point?
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B
Sure.
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A
Yeah. Okay. There's another problem, too, is that there's nothing inconsistent about an animal that has a ropish tail and has a spearish tusk. But there is something inconsistent about somebody says, an elephant as big as a house, and the other one says, no, an elephant can fit in my palm of my hand. Oh, well, now you have two claims that cannot be made to fit each other. Now, they're so different. They are contradictory. And this is actually what you find in other religions. I mean, yeah, the religions. So the way I have characterized this in the past is I say, look, either Jesus is the Messiah or he's not. And somebody says, well, I don't even think he existed. Well, then he's not the Messiah, is he? He either is the Messiah or he's not. If he's not the Messiah, the Jews are right and the Christians are wrong. If he is the Messiah, the Christians are right, the Jews are wrong, but under no circumstances can they both be right. And that, by the way, is a pretty big deal. In both of those religions, if there is a God, maybe it's an open question. He's either personal or not impersonal. If he's personal, then the Jews and Christians and Muslims are right on that point and the Hindus are wrong. If he's impersonal, then the Hindus are right and the Christians are wrong, etc. But they can't both be right. When you die, you either go to heaven or hell or lie in the grave or you get reincarnated, but you can't do them all at the same time. And so this is why that parable is not adequate to address reality. The question that we need to be addressing, it presumes either that the person offering the advice really sees the world the way it actually is. That's one problem. And it also disregards the bona fide distinctions between religious views that are incommensurable. In other words, you can't fit them all together. Doesn't work. It's not bigotry, it's math. Okay, so that's some thoughts about that, if you want to approach it. My thinking is that that wouldn't be the best use of your time, but you may want to say something about that. Okay. Just to dismantle. To defuse that. All right. And then as far as the bumper sticker, the coexist bumper sticker, we've all seen that, all the religious symbols that coexist. The question I ask of the person with the bumper sticker is, what does that mean?
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B
Yeah, what do you mean by that?
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A
Yeah, exactly. What does that mean?
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B
Coexistence? Or does that mean we're all the same?
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A
Well, I know what they're getting at, but you'll see it in my line of thinking here, where I'm going with this, because I actually think this is disingenuous and even contradictory. But this will be, I think, more evident in a moment. I say, hey, what's up with the pumper sticker? Well, this is about, like, all these religions should coexist. Well, all these religions represented. We have these in America, right? Sure. Aren't we all getting along? And we are. This isn't Pakistan or India, you know, all these battles between the Muslims and the Hindus and the Buddhists or whatever. This is America. We're all getting along. No, no, no, I know, but there are some people who think they're right. Who would that be? The Christians. They're the ones who are the troublemakers. Why are they the troublemakers? Because they think their view is right and everybody else is wrong. Okay. Are they right? No, they're not right. Their view is wrong. Okay, well, help me to understand. Now you're complaining because the Christians are not really appropriately coexisting, apparently because they think their view is right, but your response to them is that they're wrong, Which I understand your view, but how does that fit with the coexist thing? Because if coexisting means that we can't say other people's views are wrong, then why are you saying the Christians view is wrong? Do you see the point there?
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B
Sure.
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A
Yeah. That's the contradiction part. That's why I think it's totally disingenuous. We're all coexisting, fine. But they don't want coexistence. They want Christians to shut up, and that's why they do that. Okay, so that's on those two issues. Now, as to the topic proper, I think if I had an opportunity to spend 35 minutes and talk about why my God is right and the other guy's God is wrong, I'M thinking that I'm going to make my case for the true God. And if I'm right, then other people are wrong. And that's math. I would play that point somewhere. But I think I'd want to say, you know what? I am really unhappy with the title of this talk, why my God is right and the other guy is wrong. Because it's just so belligerent. And what I don't want to do is just come out and belligerent, say, I'm right and you're wrong. Because that just sounds like arrogance. And that's the way people see it. I get that. But that's not my project. My project is trying to figure out what the world is actually like. I'm just like you guys. I'm trying to figure it out, is there a God or not? And if there is a God, that means he's something, not everything. Did you catch that? If there is a God that's like, are you married or not? No, I'm sorry, I'm still role playing this. So if I were to ask the audience, that would be like somebody come up to you, say, are you married or not? You say, yeah, I'm married. Oh, to a guy. Oh. So what's your wife's name? La da da. Okay. Notice that because you are married to a particular person, that particular person has particular characteristics, even has a particular name. If you said, my wife's name is Beth, it wouldn't make any sense for me to say, man, that's so rude of you. Why? Because you didn't say you're married to Mary, you said Beth. Well, Beth's her name. She's 5, 6, she's got blonde hair, nice figure. How about. Well, you're just given a description of this individual because an individual is in view. Now, I would use illustrations like that just to help people get comfortable with the idea that if there is a real God, then the real God is a particular individual, so to speak. It's got qualities, got characteristics, and if somebody is advancing an alternate view, then, and it's incommensurable, you can't blend them together, then either one of you is wrong or both of you is wrong. But you can't both be right. So I'd want to say. I guess I'd want to. This is kind of an epistemic notion, epistemology. How? You know what? You know, I'd want to let the. I wouldn't use that word, but I'd want to set the groundwork. I want to say first of all, I don't like this title because what I'm trying to do is not impose my view on somebody else. You're wrong, I'm right. That's not my project. I'm trying to figure out what's true. All right? And here's the first thing that I notice, that when it comes to all these different God options, everybody can't be right. And you might play out this Hindu, Muslim goddess, personal, impersonal, if you like. When you die, you either go to heaven or hell or you land a grave or reincarnated. You can't do them all. Somebody's wrong. And so that is meant to set the tone for anything you say after that. The tone isn't like, here are the reasons why I'm right and everybody else is an idiot. Because that's kind of what the title kind of suggests. You know, it's belligerent. No, what is it? It's clickbait. That's what it is. They want people to come to this thing. But I think it's fair for you to say, this is not my project. I want to find out what's true and everybody can't be right. Everybody can be wrong, but everybody can't be right. Okay? Now, the guy last week talked about the elephant. Okay, I get it. I've heard that one before. I just want to point something out. I said the only way you could know that the blind men were messing with an elephant and that they all agreed. It turned out that all of their comments were somewhat consistent with each other is because you had somebody who could really see what was going on, the Rajah. And he was the one who could tell them who's right and wrong. That's what I believe. There's a certain sense of, I agree with that fellow, but not the application. I agree. In order to know the truth, you have to have somebody who sees clearly to tell you what's the case. Got that? Okay, so what am I doing? I'm just trying to set the atmosphere, change the expectations, change the temperature, a little bit of the discussion. And I said, now, what I want to do is I want to give you the reasons why I think there is a personal God who has spoken to us through Jesus of Nazareth. And I would focus in on that because that's now God telling, this is the Rajah. So you're actually springboarding off of the prior talk, but you're just using it to say, I kind of agree with him, but not the way he thought. You have to have somebody who can See things the way they really are, or that parable doesn't work. And I think that's true. And I think that person is Jesus. Now, why do I think that? If God were to become a man, what would you expect? And then Josh McDowell has developed this in his evidence that demands a verdict. Well, you'd expect an amazing kind of birth. You'd expect somebody who could read other people's minds. You'd expect somebody who can control the forces of nature, who could conquer death, who could heal people. All this. Well, this is what the record shows. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. We got four different sources that are early. We know it's early because of the. Maybe you can't get into those details because then people are going to wonder, why do you trust that? And I trust it. And here's a simple way to put it. I trust it for the same reasons that most historians trust. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Those are the primary source historical documents on the life of Jesus of Nazareth. These are the people during his time that wrote about him. It has all the earmarks of eyewitness testimony and good history. Now, most historians who affirm that, which is most historians would say, except for the miracle stuff. But then you could raise the question, why would you toss the miracles out unless you have a prior bias? If you have good evidence for it, which it seems there is, then maybe we should take it seriously. So I would want to present that kind of case to them in my 35 minutes, and then end with the resurrection. If you get the story of reality, I have a case there that's called minimal facts. And the way I characterize that now is I say just everybody agrees that the historians agree that Jesus died on a cross, stuck in a grave, the grave was empty. Then disciples had these appearances, or they said they had some kind of experience they thought was Jesus. So what's the best explanation? And so you have a skeptic like James who changes his mind. You have a critic and a persecutor like Saul of Tarsus who changes his mind, all because they said they saw Jesus. So what do you think happened? What's the best explanation? And we're back to that main thing. What's the best explanation for the way things are? So there are some thoughts that might help you. I'm open to other questions, unless this will help.
- [44:28]
B
I do know, I do have a few other questions because I listen to you twice a week. I know once a week, but twice a week. And of course, a lot of things you say come up right and so there's much evidence that could be brought to bear from scripture that shows that the God of Christianity does provide the best explanation for the way things are. I just don't know in this context how much of that kind of evidence, the common, you know, more of the common sense evidence, you know.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah.
- [45:04]
B
You know how you talk about something's wrong with. Everyone knows something's wrong with the world.
- [45:08]
A
Correct. The problem of evil. Right.
- [45:10]
B
Does that make sense to go down that road?
- [45:14]
A
Well, it does. The difficulty you have is a time limit.
- [45:17]
B
Time, yeah, that's just 40 minutes. I just checked. But so not that much more, but a little bit more than that.
- [45:25]
A
So that, that's, that's. But that's the, the bigger problem. So if you have 40 minutes, then you can. First you set the tone by saying, I don't like the topic. I don't like the wording of the thing. What I'm going to do is I'm just trying to figure out what's true and suggest to you what I think is true. And then we can't all be right. And you can use this line if you want. That's not bigotry, that's just math. And you might give an illustration like I gave of those three things, like Jesus or God, personal or impersonal. I mean, it's pretty straightforward. Okay. And then you say in that parable last week, well, there's a sense in which. Notice that there has to be somebody in that parable who sees things the way it really is, or else the blind man wouldn't be able to get corrected properly. And so I agree with. Actually, I agree with the parable, but for a different reason. I don't think the application he makes is a good one. I think the application is somebody's got to be able to see clearly, okay? And that's not us, not any of us. This is why we need God to tell us who he is. And we may get some indications, you know, the blind men, they're feeling part of it. They get some evidence about the elephant, but it's only partial. And in the same way, we can get some ideas about God from the evidence. A big bang needs a big banger. So this is where I might go into it. I might go in and say, look, we know there's a personal God because the universe had a beginning and a big bang needs a big banger. You've heard me say that before. And they'll probably like that. If they haven't heard it, they'll think that's funny. And the universe has an age. Another illustration I give is that if you came into a room and there was a hot cup of coffee sitting on the counter, what would you conclude about how long that cup had been there? Well, you'd conclude, you know, they can say it. You know, I asked these rhetorical questions to the audience. Now, you'd conclude that it hasn't been there very long, that if it was dead cold, you don't know. Well, the universe is hot. It's still cooling down. And since it's hot, it hasn't been here forever. It had a beginning. And if it had a beginning, it must have had a beginner. That's common sense. Someone personal, powerful, intelligent, you know, that kind of thing. So there's one little piece of evidence you had. Someone had to start. It has to be a one. It has to be a person. That is, because if it's just a series of fallen dominoes, you've got to have somebody kick over the first domino. Right? So, look, there's a piece of information, evidence, and I would offer this to them not as any kind of proof, but as a series, like a cumulative case, a series of observations about the nature of the world that add up to someone like the God of Scripture. But I think that that would be my capstone. That would be the God of Scripture. So if you want to bring in some of the other evidences that you could explain in a fairly simple way and give a handy illustration of, that's what I've just been giving you, some handy illustrations. Okay. So if you can do that, then you can get to the final point where God has actually come down. That's the claim of Jesus of Nazareth. He's not just leaving up to these general things. He's actually come down to speak to us through the person of Jesus. All right.
- [49:01]
B
And you know, Greg, as I comb through Esther fdr, I came across an article that Amy wrote in a year ago on how the cross reveals the truth about who God is and talks about the utter brilliance of the cross as the, you know, a way to uphold both perfect righteousness and justice. I mean, it's. Again, I'm not naturally an evangelist. I want to make. I don't want to go off the rails.
- [49:30]
A
Yeah.
- [49:30]
B
You know, I don't to want. Want to preach, but, you know, I want to leave a stone in their shoe.
- [49:36]
A
Sure.
- [49:37]
B
It is true that.
- [49:38]
A
There you go.
- [49:40]
B
You know, my God is the only God who stepped into the world.
- [49:44]
A
Yes.
- [49:45]
B
Actually sacrificed himself. All other gods demand a sacrifice, but, yeah, that's right.
- [49:52]
A
This is great. I'm moving along. I just got another call that came in I want to jump to at the end, but. But this is great. I think you have a general idea of what I have in mind here, and you're right. Put a stone on their shoe. Don't try to close the deal. Just give them something worth thinking about. And especially if you're nice about it and you're thoughtful about it, you're not kind of harsh and dogmatic, this is going to stand out in their thinking.
- [50:16]
B
Okay, I'll give you a report.
- [50:19]
A
All right, Paul, you do that. Thank you for so much. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate the call. Yeah. All right, let's go now. And thank you for calling Gail in Quebec. Did I say that right?
- [50:33]
B
You did say that, right. Thank you very much. Mr. Koko. This is.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah.
- [50:36]
B
So I'm calling from Quebec, Canada. I want to be quick. I know you don't have much time. My wife and I, we're both 26. We. We lead a youth group for our church.
- [50:45]
A
Huh.
- [50:47]
B
We host. We host teens from 12 to 17, and we held it well. Anyways, we're going into our second year, and I just want to. I've been wanting to ask for some advice on how to bring up. Just when I have the youth group, which is an hour every other week, just how to bring up the topic of apologetics. Where to start with them? They are all in Christian families, and they're all from my church, so I know their parents very well, and they trust me to teach.
- [51:19]
A
That's great. Good for you that you guys. You and your wife are doing it together, right?
- [51:25]
B
Yeah.
- [51:26]
A
And you have how much time? Just generally, you do this every other.
- [51:29]
B
Week on going two hours every other week? Yeah.
- [51:33]
A
Okay. So it's ongoing. You're not just limited to five weeks or whatever, Just generally ongoing. You're the youth leaders, correct?
- [51:41]
B
Correct.
- [51:42]
A
Yeah. Okay. If I were in your shoes, I would want to start big, broad, 30,000ft. I'd want to talk about what I characterize as the story of reality. All right, so that book has five different sections. God, man, Jesus, cross, resurrection, final resurrection, to reward or punishment. And here's what my concern is. A lot of kids raised in church know a lot of particulars, but they don't have the big picture. And if they had the big picture, man, that is going to take. It's going to help them so much. Before you get into something like apologetics, defending the truth, they need to have a clear picture of what that truth entails. All right. And that's what I think the 30,000 foot look will help them to have. Okay. So I don't know if you have a copy of the book the Story of Reality, but that I'd encourage you to read it. And I just checked online. I think it's $11 at Amazon or something like that. It's not bad. Or you can listen to it.
- [52:52]
B
I have a copy. This is a good reminder to finally crack it open.
- [52:56]
A
Oh, you do have.
- [52:58]
B
Yeah.
- [52:58]
A
Okay, good for you. Well, that is meant to be a primer on Christianity. And in my sense, it's not like I'm trying to sell a book. Well, you already bought it, so it's okay. What I'm trying to do. Yeah. Is to give Christians a solid sense of the foundation. And if they don't have a solid sense of the foundation, they're in trouble. They're going to be in trouble one way or another. So if they understand basics about God, his kingdom, he's in charge. The story is about him, then about human beings. They're beautiful, but they're broken. They were meant to be in friendship, but this is where the problem of evil came from. They messed up big time. So God initiates a rescue plan by becoming a man himself in the person of Jesus and the way he lives his life and how he dies on a cross. So God, man, Jesus, cross determines what happens to everyone in the final resurrection. And that would be either perfect justice or perfect mercy. And so that gives them the big picture. Then they're going to understand the problem of evil is part of our story. It's not a big surprise. It starts in our third chapter. It doesn't end for 66 books. We're in the middle of the story, and our story's not over yet. Okay. And then they're going to see how all this. Why is Jesus the only way? He's the only one who solved the problem. That's why he's the only way. So this will provide a kind of foundation that will serve you well when you get into more details of apologetics, of challenges that might come their way. I think that many Christians have a hard time answering challenges because, for one, the challenger does not understand Christianity. The challenger doesn't understand Christianity. And the challenge is filled with misconceptions. Okay, but the other. The other reason it's hard is because the dear Christian doesn't adequately understand Christianity to see that the other person has misunderstood it. And so when the book Story of Reality, I wrote it equally for non Christians as well as Christians. It's meant to give the big picture and then people can make their own decision. But at least if they're going to reject it, they're rejecting the real McCoy, as it were, the real thing and not some distortion. That to me is one of the most important things for younger Christians to get that foundation down. After that, you can go to whatever your interest is, you know, if you the tactics book, a lot of people like that. They teach it in their church, whatever. And actually we have on Stru Stander Eastern University, on our website, we have short courses on the story of reality. And some will use that as the way that they work their class through the material and then they have discussions and you know, all of that kind of stuff, however you want to do that. But that's the suggestion that I would make, Gail.
- [56:02]
B
All right. Well, I really appreciate that. That hones it in start big, cover all their bases, basically run through the big major points with all of them. And that way from there I'll know where to go. Thanks a lot.
- [56:17]
A
Yeah. And also getting in the specific apologetics. You don't want to move too fast because it's just not going to stick. All right. If you take your time and spend five weeks or whatever going through each of the segments there or the story of reality, then you can go from there and decide what you want. But I'm really glad you called. It's a great question.
- [56:36]
B
All right, thank you very much. Have a good evening.
- [56:38]
A
Yeah, Gail, call me back when things when you get down the road a little bit.
- [56:42]
B
All right, I would love to count on it.
- [56:45]
A
Yeah. Thanks a lot. Bye bye now.
- [56:47]
B
God bless you all. Bye.
- [56:49]
A
That foundation is so important. If you don't have the foundation, you don't have anything to defend or unless you don't know what you're supposed to defend. And honest to goodness, so many people have objections to Christianity, do not understand Christianity. Anyways, great way to end the show and thank you for being part of it. Greg Koukl here for Stand to Reason. Give him heaven. Okay, friends, bye bye.
- [57:37]
B
It.