Standard of Truth S6E10: Live! With Chocolate-Flavored Candy and Zero Tertullian

Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat & Dr. Richard Leduc
Theme: Faithful Humor and Deep Dives into Lesser-Known LDS Church History

Main Theme & Purpose

This special live episode brings listeners into the heart of LDS history with the characteristic humor, sharp expertise, and candid faith of Drs. Dirkmaat and Leduc. The focus is on answering quirky or challenging listener questions—including obscure Moroni encounters, debates about the date of the First Vision, and the spiritual role of Hyrum Smith—while infusing the discussion with laughter, tangents about chocolate-flavored candy, and genuine admiration for overlooked heroes.

Key Segments & Insights

1. Live Mailbag: Outrageous Circumstances & the Moroni Series (02:26–18:00)

Highlight:
An email arrives from Shay Lynn—written, comically, “from labor,” with contractions ongoing, at her family’s insistence to up the Moroni series' addendum count and grab podcast glory.

Discussion Points:

• The hosts joke that the only purpose for listening is to “sound smart in church” and warn about sharing too many insights lest one be “promoted” to higher callings (04:42–06:10).
• A new segment, suggested by the emailers, aims for anti-promotion—stories so obscure and niche, sharing them guarantees avoidance of leadership: “Material Center Corner” or “Sterling’s Sideline.”

Notable Quotes

• “No one’s listening for their own personal growth or salvation. It’s only to sound smart in church.” — Leduc (06:02)
• “You go read the King Follett sermon and then you just randomly start sharing parts of that to any question that's asked in Relief Society or in priesthood. Guaranteed, you're going to the materials.” — Dirkmaat (09:11)
• On sharing King Follett quotes door-to-door: “It was a less successful door approach.” — Dirkmaat (10:18)

Obscure Moroni Accounts

• The Story of Moroni with a Knapsack (10:18–14:40):
  • From Edward Stevenson’s letter: David Whitmer and companions, traveling to Fayette, encounter a mysterious man with a knapsack; they later learn from Joseph Smith this was Moroni, who “stepped back and disappeared.”
  • Whitmer’s mother later sees Moroni, who leafs through the plates, showing both sealed and unsealed sections.

2. Angels, Adversaries, and “Activity Days” (15:19–22:38)

Wilford Woodruff’s England Mission Experiences:

• Woodruff describes harrowing experiences with evil spirits as apostles labor in England (16:35–22:38).
• On one occasion, he, George A. Smith, and others are delivered by three temple-clothed angels—Woodruff elaborates on why angelic intervention is rare and necessary.

Notable Quotes

• Wilford Woodruff (as recounted by Dirkmaat):
  “On one occasion, after Brother Kimball had left, these powers of darkness fell upon us to destroy our lives ... [three angels] laid their hands upon our heads, and we were delivered ...” (18:55–21:47)
• “I highly recommend quoting the King Follett sermon or this next story if you want to get to activity days or the material center.” — Dirkmaat (17:32)

3. Date of the First Vision: Weather Forensics & Speculation (23:30–39:16)

Listener Question:
Is there an “official” or best-supported date for the First Vision?

Research and Riffs:

• The hosts discuss speculative attempts, such as using the Book of Enoch’s calendar (March 26 thesis) and 19th-century weather records from neighboring towns.
• Leduc produces “charts” comparing cloud cover and temperature from Rochester and Watertown, NY, to Palmyra, underscoring the difficulty (and futility) of precision given the available data.

Notable Quotes

• “If you have to go to a non-canonized book and perform calculations to figure out when [the First Vision] is, you’re so far speculative that I don’t even know how you could really share that.” — Dirkmaat (29:20)
• “If you start saying ‘if’ so many times...by the time you get to the end, well, that’s a lot of ifs..." — Dirkmaat (31:40)
• “The most important part is that the First Vision happened.” — Dirkmaat (29:02)

Host Summary:
There is no official Church position; all attempts to calculate the exact date are speculative and, while potentially fun, do not meaningfully help faith or historical confidence.

4. Hyrum Smith and Revelatory Authority (42:24–50:34)

Listener Question:
Did Hyrum Smith, as co-prophet, receive any written revelations or visions? Did he see Christ?

Key Insights:

• Hyrum participated in key founding visions (e.g., Kirtland Temple dedication), gave potent sermons, and Joseph encouraged the Saints to heed his counsel.
• No known direct written revelations or accounts of visions from Hyrum post his designation as co-prophet, but his teachings carried substantial prophetic weight.

Word of Wisdom Teachings

• Hyrum on the Word of Wisdom:
  Strong denouncements of alcohol and tobacco, and a categorical statement: "hot drinks" refers to tea and coffee (45:41–46:24).
• Brigham Young backs Hyrum’s clarity:
  “As if this doesn’t refer directly, perfectly, absolutely, definitely and truly to that which we did drink hot ... It alludes to tea and coffee.” (48:13)

Notable Quotes

• “[Hyrum] is not fit for the office. He ought to first learn to keep the word of wisdom and then to teach others. God will not prosper the man who uses [tobacco].” — Hyrum Smith (45:41)

Broader Message:
Rejecting specific prophetic counsel—even on “little” things—leads to spiritual darkness and eventual apostasy. The difference between sinning and justifying sin is crucial for spiritual survival (54:16–58:00).

5. Heroes from Church History: The Overlooked Saints (60:10–75:00)

Prompted by Live Question:
Who are your unsung heroes from Church history?

Richard Leduc: Mary Fielding Smith

• Celebrated for unflagging faith amid relentless trials and persecutions.
  • “She suffered as much as anyone, and she was faithful always until the end.” (60:39)

Gerrit Dirkmaat: Olive Boyington Hale & Emmaline Anderson

• Olive Boyington Hale stood firm in the faith despite her apostle brother’s apostasy.
• Emmaline Anderson lost her husband and son during the “Battle of Nauvoo” yet remained committed, her correspondence from Council Bluffs to her estranged family expressing undiminished testimony and yearning for genealogy to perform temple work (67:55–74:00).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There are people who have gone through far, far worse things, and they are certain that Jesus is the Christ, that this is God’s church, and that eventually, just like she wrote, eventually it will be made up to her. So she’s one of my heroes from church history that nobody knows about.” — Dirkmaat (73:29)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Chocolate-Flavored Candy Tangent:
  Debates about whether “Yoohoo” constitutes chocolate, paralleling church history’s fine print and rebranding (“It’s chocolate flavored…they’re not legally allowed to say it’s chocolate.” — Leduc, 15:13)
• “Material Center” & Leadership Avoidance:
  “If you want to stay in a second-hour calling, shoot for stories even more obscure than the 1850’s Provo Stake Conference minutes!” — Paraphrased mailbag question (08:22)
• Doctrine for Dodge:
  "If you do [quote history] enough, you will get promoted at church." — Dirkmaat (06:10)
• Podcast Self-Deprecation:
  “All of our tens of zero people.” — Leduc, regarding the "crack research staff" (28:12)
• Live Audience Energy:
  “There was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of the people here [descended from early British converts]. Just think about that for a minute. Talk about the number of apples from that seed!” — Dirkmaat (16:44)

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Time | Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:26 | Mailbag/Labor email & Moroni Series addendums | | 10:18 | Edward Stevenson’s Moroni-as-knapsack story | | 15:13 | Yoohoo “chocolate” debate | | 16:35 | Woodruff’s angelic and adversarial encounters in England | | 23:30 | Date of the First Vision: “Official” stance and speculations | | 33:11 | Weather data analysis for First Vision date | | 42:24 | Hyrum Smith’s revelations & Word of Wisdom | | 48:13 | Brigham Young’s candor on hot drinks | | 60:10 | Unsung heroes from church history | | 67:55 | Emmaline Anderson’s story and faith |

Tone & Style

• Witty & Irreverent: Seamlessly mixing claims that "Yoohoo isn’t chocolate" with scholarly critiques on the nature of revelation and speculation in history.
• Deeply Faithful: Even in jest, the hosts’ reverence for pioneers’ faith and prophetic counsel shapes every insight.
• Engagingly Self-Deprecating: The hosts regularly poke fun at themselves, their research, and the podcast’s ambitions (“tens of tens of listeners”).

For Listeners Who Missed It

This live episode of Standard of Truth is as much about the heart behind church history as the stories themselves. You’ll hear how faith and humor mesh, with valuable reminders on why specifics (like the exact day of the First Vision) matter less than the spiritual truths behind them. The episode leaves listeners with a deepened appreciation for both well-known and forgotten Saints, the weight of prophetic guidance, and—crucially—the joy of navigating faith’s oddities together.