S6E9 Prepare, Don’t Predict the Second Coming

Summary

Standard of Truth Podcast – Season 6 Episode 9: “Prepare, Don’t Predict the Second Coming”
Release Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (with Dr. Richard Leduc)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a crucial gospel principle: rather than trying to forecast the Second Coming of Jesus Christ using signs, rumors, or speculative “insider” quotes, faithful Latter-day Saints should focus on personal preparation by following the teachings of living prophets and keeping core covenants. Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc address recent trends—particularly in online spaces—of speculation and anxiety about the Second Coming, pushing back on the idea that such predictions are spiritually fruitful or doctrinally justified. The episode also features the familiar, lighthearted banter and listener mail, but comes to a focused, earnest climax on the need for steady, faith-filled discipleship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Humorous Banter & Listener Catch-Up

• Japan Stories: Dr. Leduc recounts a recent trip to Japan with his family, complete with anecdotes about language learning, local culture, and his son Parker’s impromptu date at a Tokyo fish market.
  • “He didn’t care about any Shinto shrines or temples. All he was doing was just, his nose was in a Japanese book.” (Dr. Leduc, 02:33)
• Church in Japan: Leduc shares an embarrassing moment tripping on the steps at a Japanese church—"I thought there were three [steps]. And so I walked the plank and face planted in front of 200 lovely Japanese saints." (04:49)
• Listener Shoutouts: Recognition for devoted families in Tucson and Independence, MO, with a running joke about the podcast’s “popularity” in obscure LDS communities worldwide.

2. Listener Mailbag

• Wide-ranging listener questions dominate the first half, often sprinkled with regional Idaho humor (“thrifty nickel” classified paper, farm life, and local in-jokes).
• 13-year-old listener Owen asks: why do many Christians say Christ’s name in vain, despite the commandment? Dr. Dirkmaat explains that most religious, practicing Christians do avoid this out of reverence, though everyone is imperfect—“You’ll find that fervent Christians pretty universally are offended by someone using the name of deity in a pejorative way.” (29:07)

3. Misuse of Prophetic Teachings About the Second Coming

Deep Dive: “Joseph Smith on Knowing the Day and the Hour”

• Context: A listener (Curtis from Magrath, Alberta) asks about a Joseph Smith quote circulated online suggesting that a prophet could/would know the date of the Second Coming.
• Critical Analysis of Sources:
  • The only source of the “secret revealed to a prophet” idea in Joseph Smith’s 6 April 1843 discourse is the James Burgess account—but Burgess wasn’t present at the sermon; he arrived in Nauvoo days later (45:57).
  • No other contemporaneous scribes or published versions contain that phrasing.
  • “So, is it more likely that Joseph said it and literally every other person recording it, including, you know, the official publication, left it out? Or is it more likely that Burgess misunderstood, misheard, or got it secondhand?” (Dr. Dirkmaat, 45:58)

Dangers of End-Time Predictions in Latter-Day Saint Culture

• Rise of YouTube/Facebook “prophets”: Dr. Dirkmaat expresses concern that podcasts and videos leveraging end-time speculation prey on fears and drive engagement for profit or attention, often using suspect sources:

  • “There is one thing that all of these YouTube prophets and podcasting... have in common, and that is they have all been wrong. And they are consistently wrong.” (Dr. Dirkmaat, 36:56)
  • “If the church thought that selling stock was a signal that you were supposed to use for the second coming, how do you think you would find out about that? ...Not from the Salt Lake Tribune.” (35:22)

• How Prophets Actually Instruct Us to Prepare:

  • President Nelson and President Oaks counsel: go to the temple, read the Book of Mormon, seek the Spirit.
  • “You won’t ever actually know [the specific sign]. So speculating—‘the church sold a bunch of stock’ means a comet is coming—that’s not how doctrine works.” (Dr. Dirkmaat, 38:42)
  • “Unless the current prophet is the one saying, ‘Hey, this solar eclipse is the sign of the Second Coming,’ I will just instead try to work to make myself slightly better than I was yesterday. I’ve got enough issues with my own ability to live the commandments.” (Dr. Dirkmaat, 52:46)

• Spiritual Dangers of Speculation:

  • “If you find yourself more enamored with a YouTube video about the Second Coming than you are about what the prophets are currently saying, that’s time for a course correction.” (61:52)
  • Past obsession with end-times predictions has led members into apostasy when events don’t line up (“Ask the Millerites what the downside of that is”). (45:57, 62:44)
  • “If there is anything in your life that you find yourself caring more about than what the prophets of God are saying, cut it out of your life. Political, social, whatever it is—Satan is going to use that as a tool to try to pull you away from the core of the gospel.” (73:59)

4. Final Testimony and Encouragement

• Dr. Dirkmaat closes with heartfelt counsel and a testimony of Christ and the prophetic leadership of the Church.
  • “All I can say is, as there are so many of you going through hard times, the great promise of the gospel of Jesus Christ is there will come a time when there will be no more tears forever. And everything you are suffering will eventually end.” (77:45)
  • Preparation for the Second Coming—or one’s own meeting with the Savior through death—should not be rooted in anxiety or frantic speculation, but in daily faithfulness and discipleship.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Japan is great. The food is great. The people are great. The transportation is great. ...You can’t find a trash can anywhere ever. They don’t exist. But somehow it’s cleaner than here.” – Dr. Leduc (01:10)
• “[Parker] didn’t care about any Shinto shrines or any Buddhist temples. All he was doing was just his nose was in a Japanese book.” – Dr. Leduc (02:33)
• “It took two days to get there and negative an hour and a half to get back.” – Dr. Leduc on “time travel” via the International Date Line (15:46)
• “You’ll find that fervent Christians pretty universally are offended by someone using the name of deity in a pejorative way.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (29:07)
• “There is one thing that all of these YouTube prophets and podcasters have in common, and that is they have all been wrong.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (36:56)
• “If the church thought that selling stock was a signal ... I am going to go out on a limb and venture that the church doesn't think you should find out anything about the Second Coming from the Salt Lake Tribune.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (35:22)
• “Preparation for the Second Coming means doing what the prophets actually say—go to the temple, read the Book of Mormon, live the gospel. Not becoming an amateur astronomer or SEC investigator.” – (51:32–52:46 summary)
• “The great promise of the gospel of Jesus Christ is there will come a time when there will be no more tears forever. ...Whether that second coming is 400 years from now or four days from now or four minutes from now, the important part is whether or not you are striving to live the gospel.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (77:45–78:29)

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Important Timestamps for Reference

• Japan Trip Stories & Church in Tokyo: 01:04 – 05:13
• Mailbag (Idaho Stories, Thrifty Nickel, Listener Owen): 16:21 – 29:07
• Using the Lord's Name in Vain – Christian Perspectives: 26:37 – 30:43
• Listener Question: Joseph Smith Quote & Second Coming: 31:42 – 45:58
• Deep Dive: Second Coming Speculation Dangers: 36:56 – 64:50
• Testimony and Final Thoughts on Faithful Preparation: 73:59 – 78:29

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Structure & Tone

• Lighthearted, self-deprecating humor and personal storytelling dominate the early segments, aligning with the podcast’s typical friendly and accessible tone.
• Deep, earnest gospel teaching and warning against the misuse of prophecy and doctrinal speculation forms the core of the episode’s “sermon,” delivered in a sincere, accessible, sometimes passionate manner.
• Affirming, hopeful conclusion—the focus is not fear, but faith.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The Second Coming is certain, and we are to prepare, not predict.
• Beware of voices outside of current prophets claiming “special” insight; their speculations often breed anxiety and disappointment.
• Personal discipleship—not anxiety over signs—builds the faith necessary to meet Christ, whenever that may be: “Everyone listening is far more likely to have their Second Coming because they die and meet Jesus, than because Jesus comes tomorrow.” (52:47)
• The gospel promises ultimate healing, hope, and wholeness for those who endure and trust Christ, whatever the timeline of His return.

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This episode is indispensable listening for Latter-day Saints navigating a noisy, speculation-filled world—reminding them to trust the living prophets over “secret” knowledge and to root faith in daily connection to Jesus Christ, not in anxiety or social media trends.

Transcript

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Welcome to the Standard of Truth podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard Leduc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the life and teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the church with faith, expertise and humor.

Foreign. Welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth podcast. I almost forgot what our podcast was because Richard went to Japan. While in Japan, he opened up a shop and decided he wasn't going to come back. Now he came back. Richard, say hello so everyone knows you're here.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Hello, Garrett. Thanks for having me back. It's 1:41pm Tomorrow for me right now I am struggling.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So you have time traveled.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, dude. First of all, Japan is the greatest place.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Coming back in this game, there's.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

There's a couple of things. I, I don't want to go full travel moany on this, but I will say a couple of things. Japan is great. The food is great. The people are great. The transportation is great. I. You can't find a trash can anywhere ever. They don't exist. But other than that, somehow it's still cleaner than it is here.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Well, they don't need the trash cans because they don't have riots in the street and use the trash cans.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes, it's been a minute since that's occurred, but so anyway, it was a blast. There's a couple things that I'd like to point out. One of the things that was kind of funny is the first day we went to the fish market and we went with is my wife and my son Parker. And Parker asked the girl at one of the stands on a date. And so on Saturday, they went on a date. So Becky and I just left him at Tokyo shower.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Did she speak English? Yeah, she.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

She spoke some English. Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Now, I, I mean, I know Parker's a very, very bright boy.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

He's very bright.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

But I also know he wasn't studying Japanese until like a week ago.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, but he. I will tell you, between Monday asking her out and Saturday, he hit the books.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So he was duolingo like crazy.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

He didn't. He didn't care about any Shinto shrines or any Buddhist temples. All he was doing was just his nose was in a Japanese book.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Trying to church considered that one way to fast track our elders learning foreign languages is by just, you know, kind of only partially consecrating them as missionaries, but allowing them one more date with someone who's a native speaker. Of that language.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It's one of the most effective conversion methods that we use in terms of just Latter Day Saint women marrying non Latter Day Saints. And they're like, I guess I'll join the church.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And then they become whatever she says.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, it just goes in anyway. So we dropped him, right?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Does it matter? Not really. Come on, let's get out of the water. I. I didn't even introduce. Thank you for coming back.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Joining the Standard of Truth podcast, I'm your host, Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat. I'm joined by my friend, Dr. Richard Leduc, who has just jet lagged and returning. We're all excited for our live event this Saturday. Couple days away now as we are preparing for it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We are, we are heading into this weekend. It's going to be very fun. We've got several fun things planned. I believe a trivia game that Garrett is unaware of any of the questions or answers. They're all meant to embarrass Garrett, obviously.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, good.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

And it'll be great as we're raising money for the trip to Kenya that we're going on at the 1st of April, which will be fantastic. So yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. Now we're gonna send emails out to those that are going. It was a sold out show. Standing room only, obviously.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. Although there will be chairs.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

There will be chairs and there will be no standing room.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Our standing room only shows are ones that have only chairs. Yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, my sciatica and my back, I

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

feel like we're like the people doing the monster truck. We'll send you, we'll sell you the whole seat, but you only need the edge. You'll have a chair, but you won't be sitting in it. One moment.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, I told Garrett before we started recording, we went to, went to church in, in Tokyo and it was wonderful. And as we were walking in, there were four steps and. And I thought there were three. And so I walked the plank and face planted in front of 200 lovely Japanese saints

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

and every stereotype that they ever had about American saints was in that moment fulfilled.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It was now. We didn't think we would have the opportunity to go to church. We didn't really know where the church was going to be or wherever. And so when we looked, when we got there, we're like, oh, it's really close, let's go. So I didn't have any church clothes, so obviously I wanted to kind of just hide. I mean, we're. Garrett and I can't go anywhere in Japan. We're like.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We're like the 10. We're like the 10,000th most popular LDS podcast in Japan.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, Mark's there. He listens.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, that's why we're ten thousandth and not hundred thousandth.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, we went to dinner with him, actually, when they're in Tokyo, which was fun, but. So do you remember Uncle Jesse from Full House, Garrett?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, absolutely. Uncle Jesse, yes.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So he. He never really took off. His band never really took off except for in Japan. So he. He really kind of blew up in Japan and kind of, I think at the end of the series, like, he decides to go to Japan, chase his dream, or maybe he comes back. I don't know. It's been 30 years since I've seen the show. But he either leaves or doesn't leave. Either way, he was very popular in Japan.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

If Angie was here right now, she would know all of those answers right now. The second. Yeah, this is one of her favorite shows of all time.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Is that right?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

All right, hold on. Let's get the crack research staff on. Oh, there you go.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

This is what people tuned into here.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Jesse and the Rippers. Jesse and the Rippers.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, if you were asking his band name, I would have known that, but.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, you would have.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay. Yeah, Yeah, I didn't know where he went.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Anyway, we're very excited for it now. We are at the Young Automotive Headquarters. People that are coming have asked, is this a car dealership? And the answer is it's a parts store. It's not a car dealership. That's ridiculous. It'd be ridiculous if it was.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

What do you think we can afford a car dealership? What? I mean, we're glad for it. We're excited for it, and, you know, maybe we'll. I do need to give one shout out to Mark and Annette in Tucson because they are apparently fans of the show. Annette turned onto the show by her daughter. I have been listening for years. And then my son got sent to Tucson. So they've spent the last 18 months of my son's mission essentially interrogating every missionary they find as to the whereabouts of Elder Dirkmot. You know, they see missionaries riding by, they pull their car in front of their bikes. They say, you're not going anywhere until we find out where Elder Dirkmod is. And eventually Riker got transferred to East Tucson area where. Where they live. And so they found him and they invited him and a whole plethora of missionaries to their house for dinner so I got a chance to talk to him. A little bit, you know, when he was. You know, he sent their information to me. So just want to give Mark and Annette a. A shout out. Thanks for listening and thanks for feeding my.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, that's very nice. I will say the Standard of Truth Got a. Standard of Truth podcast got a shout out in the Independence, Missouri area where my nephew is serving Elder Wilson. So we are growing huge with the Haitian Creole community, as you can imagine.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So that was the one untapped demographic that we had.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We hadn't yet translated our podcast into Creole. We're going to.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That was the thing. It was like, okay, Wycliffe Jean has been able to tap into something that we've wanted for some time. And so I think. I think this will help us propel forward with the Haitian community in. In Missouri, which we will be going to on our tour in a couple of months with. Back to the Countdown.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. What do we got in the mailbag?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes, sir. Starting with. Starting with Alberta, Correct?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

No, let's start with. Let's do that one last.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Okay. Starting with Alberta last.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Calgary.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So Calgary first.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

No, wait a minute. Are there. Do we have two.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Are we only reading the Canadian emails?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yes. Yeah, we're only reading. Because of the gold medal match. That's the. That we're only reading Canadian emails as like penance.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It seems gratuitous. We obviously love Canada. My people are from there. I'm gonna go back and get my inheritance. First of all, that one acre in Montreal now. Very.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's got to be worth so much right now. Yeah, go ahead. Well, so we can do them in any order. So just go. Okay.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We'll do them in any order. As we talked about during show prep when I wasn't paying attention.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yep. That's the reason why we do a show prep is so the people can't see the man behind the curtain. In our podcast. It's all man, no curtain.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. I wanted to drop a note to say hi and thank you for the work that you do. I've been riding a high these last 11 months since you called out my March Madness team name last year. I'm. How. You're Burgoyne. That's. That's his name. It's funny.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. I'm. How. You're Burgoyne from our. From our premium side of things. That was very good.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's very good.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We will be doing that again this year. We'll set up a. A March Madness bracket for our.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That was fun, actually. Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We'll give the password out and, you know, we Will. I mean, I don't think we did anything for the winner. We just said their name a lot and told them they were great.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, you're great. Hey, thanks a lot.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Thanks for listening. Thanks for being amazing.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. Keep reaching for the stars. I knew. I knew I'd peek when the good. By the way, Garrett, I've got to update my references. I noticed this when I was teaching this week. I was referencing the Thrifty Nickel and a Highlights magazine. I don't think that any of those things are still in print. The Reader's Digest people came strong against me.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, you tried to say there was no Reader's Digest and someone unbeknownst to you got your home address.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Signed you up for a subscription.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I now have a monthly subscription to the Reader's Digest that he did not

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

pay for or ask for.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, I certainly didn't ask for.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I will not tolerate Richard's Reader's Digest, you know, incompetence. And he will have it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. I assume Highlights is still a. A magazine. And the Thrifty Nickel, is that still a thing? It has.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We need someone.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Idaho exists. Right?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We need someone from rural southeast Idaho to tell us because they'll know and they'll tell us how many hours are on the front end loader that are listed at it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I knew I'd peaked when the good doctor of implied referrals called me a nerd on the Internet. I'm looking forward to this year's edition as further vindication of President Hinckley's 1995 talk. Anyhow, I had a question about the thing that you were going to talk about anyways, so if you could go over that for me, that'd be great.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Awesome.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Thanks for all your.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Those emails. Get read because they let us do whatever we want.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Thanks for your humor with way too many use and faithful discussion of church history and gospel topics. Premium littner Matt from Calgary. Go Flames.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Nice.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And again, sorry. Sorry about the most unexpected ending to that. I mean, I was watching the gold medal match. I know it was a Sunday morning, but I was watching it. And

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

you have your fantasy Winter Olympics team together.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

But I love watching Olympic hockey. And so I got up early and I was watching the whole thing and the Americans were just being completely dominated. The entire. Just. It. It was stunning how much better the Canadian team was.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, the shots on goal were crazy compared.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Just couldn't get it past.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, the goal is a stud.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, it was. It was unbelievable. I mean, the entire time. I mean, after about midway through the Second period. I was watching it the way that Mormon was praying for the Nephites to be beat. The Wahmanites. Like we weren't even getting. We weren't even getting the puck on their side of the ice when it was in our possession, let alone a shot. We, there were no shots. I mean, we were taking zero shots. And it turns out if you take zero shots, you also score zero goals. It's a crazy.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's crazy hockey. Such a complex game. Who knew?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Well, and so as the third quarter's winding down, I'm just like, I mean, how is overtime going to be any better? Yeah, all of their players individually are better than all of our players individually. And now there's only going to be three of them versus our three.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, that's the thing in America though, you know, three periods, we. We kind of want four quarters. So the overtime allowed us to four quarters. Feel more comfortable.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. I mean if you were the Canadians, right. You're probably thinking, why didn't we take the two point conversion at the end of regulation instead? We should have pulled our goalie and just gone to God. But it was, it was awesome. It was great, great match, whatever.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

But it was a lot of fun. This next email comes from Owen. I do want to say one more thing about Japan, Garrett. We left our house at 5:30 in the morning for like a, like a 8 o' clock flight or something like that. We got. So we left Saturday morning. We got to Japan Sunday afternoon at like 3:30.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Right? Okay.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We left Tokyo on the plane at 4:50. We got home at 3:30.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So you traveled in time.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's what I'm saying. Like it took. It took two days to get there and negative an hour and a half to get back.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

See, you should just work on a business model where you fly just around the concert. Yeah. And so you're like, I'll get that to you Tuesday. And then it's just always Tuesday.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I will say the most veteran move of all moves was Saturday was Valentine's Day. And when we landed, it wasn't anymore.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Wow, that's terrible now. But it sounds like it was Valentine's Day for Parker though. So it worked out for him.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, no, it's good. He's. He and some lovely Japanese fair maiden is running around Tokyo by themselves for four hours. And it was fun. We were a little terrified, but you know, it worked out. This comes from Owen. Subject is an address in Shelley, which is funny. Greetings from Idaho. So maybe Owen can get to the bottom of the thrifty Nickels to see if it's still in.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, I guarantee owen, as a 13 year old, is constantly reading it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I need you to get on your Huffy bike and I need you to ride into town and I need you.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You just got to reach into the thing and grab it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, just grab it. I actually need an old used fridge, Owen, so if you find one there, I'd really appreciate it. My name is Owen.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Barstools, where the feet have broken off, but you could probably still salvage them.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

How did more people not get murdered

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

just with Thrifty Nickels? It was a different time. It was a different time. For those who don't know, the Thrifty Nickel was this like, essentially it was Craigslist before there was a Craigslist. It was cancel. Before there was a cancel. It was this free classifieds newspaper that you could get, you know, obviously paid to put an ad in it, but you could just pick it up for free anywhere.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And it had just thousands of things for sale in it. And of course, all were like, you know, you know, for sale. One heifer, you know, two years. Just, just, just. I mean, from, from livestock to farming equipment to. To, you know, leftover cereal boxes. You could literally buy anything in there. Anything.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I was ebay before ebay was cool.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I'm 13, possibly making me one of the youngest people to email in. This is true, Owen. I started littening when I was 12 and I enjoyed not only the gospel doctrines that you teach, but also the banter and sports picks. I wonder, could you imagine? He's in his like. So he's 12. He's in Deacon's quorum. He's like, who told you that?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, yeah. He just starts quoting the King Paula sermon. I will refute the idea. Yeah. So they ask him, what do you think about the plan of salvation? And he's like, you suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

And I. The banter and sports picks. Garrett has rightfully picked the super bowl and I precisely picked the college football national championship. So I take that as I should listen to what he is saying because he is probably right. Not only did you pick the national championship on the. On. On the football on, you picked Indiana. You've got the points right. It was spot on. It's now, it's now our, you know, our stinger for when we make sports picks.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

True. It's true. Chase.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

And mine is mine. I should go back. I got to find the Virginia episode and go back and include that in the stinger. It'd be funny if you nail that. Exactly.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And I'm taking Virginia all the way the year. All the way to a 16 seed.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, this never happened before. So I take that as I probably listen because he knows what he's saying. Not only for. For betting, but also for messages that he is sharing, not for betting. Owen. Entertainment purposes only. Owen. Hopefully my Idaho points will increase my chances, always, by the way, always, of my email getting read on air. I don't know. I enjoy hearing the Idaho references and feel they are true.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Owen knows what a borrow pit is. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, no one knows what a borrow pit is.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

He does. I live just 20 minutes north of Shelly, Idaho and my grandparents currently live next door to. To where we presume Garrett used to live. According to my grandparents, because they lived next to where the Dirk Moths used to live. Hence the title of my email. Speaking of those grandparents, they go south every winter and that very area, the Gaddy. The Gadian Robbers, presumably are Littlefield, Arizona. That's. I had to trouble Owen. Likely. Oh, well, it's haunted by the Gadianton robbers. That's where my parents go. I know exactly where you're talking about when you mentioned that little pass from St. George to Mesquite. My family goes down to visit for a week every year and it's a pretty nice place. I've even gone to visit the church building that they have there. It's pretty cool. He asks for premium access for his brother Dallin, serving in Vancouver, Washington. So close to an all. Yes, all Canada email. So we'll get that to Dallin. I've been listening for a year now and I found your podcast while listening to the Follow him podcast. My mom and I would drive to school every day listening to Follow him. And then one fateful day, we heard the voices of the Restoration episode. We then found out the Standard of Truth podcast, found out about the Standard of Truth podcast and started listening. I was reluctant as first. Oh, and everybody is.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Our wives, our children.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Still, I get it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

But eventually gave in. This is a very well written email by Owen Chat.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

GPT exists.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Okay. How dare you. How dare you. He lives in Fort Hood. He doesn't necessarily. What is Fort Hood? North of Shelley. It is, right?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. He said he lived north of Shelly.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. What's. What's 20 minutes north of Shelley?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I mean Blackfields. Okay, well, depending on which. Which highway you're on, you're on your way to Rigby.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, Rigby's Lovely this time of year. Get out of here.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

At first, I actually do love Rigby. At first I thought that the silhouettes on the COVID of the podcast were the two of you.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I wish.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. I then was telling my mom about this, and she laughed and said those were silhouettes of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. That made a lot more sense because Richard supposedly wears glasses bigger than his forehead.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I mean, I wish we had an image to include on this, but whatever. You're imagining that he looks like Owen. He does, if you're wondering. So funny.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, my gosh. That's freaking hilarious. Sorry. Could you imagine?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Just. Yeah, it's. You're basically like that. You're like that one. You're like that one midget that only has the one eye with the one glasses. That's.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Before listening, my mom had been the Steak Relief Society second counselor for a few months. However, when she started littening to Christie's Corner, the stake decided she was too good for it and raised her to the steak releases.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I told you. It works. It works. We have.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Freaking hilarious.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. Owen knows the inside jokes, even though

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

she was only the second counselor for a few months. Seriously, this is true. We just missed you guys. This past summer, our family went on a church history tour by ourselves. We don't recommend that, by the way. We recommend that. The only way to go. And we went to Nauvoo last. The last week of June, right before the pageant started. We stopped in Keokuk Walmart multiple times. And that same week we got back, you guys released the episode John C. Bennett in front of a live studio audience in Keokuk, which means we just missed you guys in.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Did I do an entire episode on John C. Bennett?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Garrett, at this point, almost every episode you do is about John C. Bennett. It's coming up. It's bringing it up.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I guess I forgot. You ranted like a lunatic.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You went Bakersfield chimp on John C. Bennett.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay, okay.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

And now for the point of the email. I had a question that came to mind. While reflecting on the Ten Commandments, I remembered that not saying Christ's name in vain is one of them. If this is true, why do so many Christians still say it? Is it just a commandment that other Christians brush aside, or do they perceive it as something else? Anyway, I'd like to say thanks for all that you do, as you have strengthened not only mine, but other so many other people's testimonies. And I even listen to your podcast to help me fall asleep at night.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Like most People.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. If you read my email, I promise to become a premium lender. That's a lot of lawns you're gonna have to mow.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, well, you're gonna be mowing all. Moving a lot of irrigation pipe.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Oh, that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Actually, I can't promise that because they don't have any money to pay for it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

But maybe I could talk to my mom into getting it for us. That's. That's it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Well, with all of her newfound stake Relief Society president money, I mean, before she was just. She was moping along as a lowly second counselor. Now that she's president, you know, I expect that she's going to be able to shell it out.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I've said this many times. It's my favorite thing in the whole world. For my grandma that didn't understand the church because she was Jewish. And I was called as a. You know, I was called as a district leader, and she sent me a card, and it had 20 bucks in it. And the card just said, congratulations on the promotion. And I thought it was sweet and funny, and I do it all the time. Anytime anybody gets a calling, I always say, congratulations on the promotion.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Do you give them $20?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No. My gosh, no. Never. But I do make the joke anyway. Let's see. Don't any money.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Or.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Or I'll just wait to get it for free. Access. When I'm a missionary in about five years, and since I'm in middle school, I feel the need to reference that I will be home from my mission in about six or seven years. So that was six. Seven.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. He did a six. Seven for us. And Richard just did the hand signal for that.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well done, Owen.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

But I ignored it because I wanted him to still be cool. And that's so 20, 25.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So people that take the Lord's name in vain that are also Christians, I mean, this.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Honestly, you know, it's a good question, Owen. And, you know, there's. Everybody's on a. Everybody's in a different place in their relationship to God. I think you'll actually find that most religious Christians actually do find it to be a. To them, it is incredibly blasphemous. So you sure? You can find all kinds of people who say that they're Christian who will take the Lord's name in vain. But to people that are very active in their Christian faith, it is generally one of the things that they see as a bridge that they shouldn't be crossing. Now, that doesn't mean that they don't. I mean, look, we've got all kinds of. I've heard tell that there's members of our church who at times will use profanity even though they're not supposed to.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

What? I've never. Growing up in rural Idaho, I never experienced that.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. Working on farms as I did, I never once heard anyone use a profanity. It was better days.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So my understanding in speaking with my father in law, who never would have sworn ever, but he did explain to me in extending grace to farmers that animals only responded to certain words.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Makes sense.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, it makes sense. And so if that's the case, what. What's a person supposed to do?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So there's farm swears, which are okay, and then there's out in public swears.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, yeah. The one is I got to get the cow to the whatever. And the other one's like, you know, I dropped the milk. So.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, makes sense. Well, so. So I, I would say in general, most, both Protestants and certainly Catholics who are, who are very religious, you will find that they, they will see. One of the most offensive parts of, say, a movie that has profanity in it is the taking of the Lord's name in vain, where it's used as this pejorative. And, you know, that's kind of how society is. Whenever there's anything that is forbidden in society, then that becomes what people do as a way of expressing their point. And so, you know, what's important is your relationship with God, that you show God and the Lord Jesus Christ the respect that he's due. And, you know, I think we're all sinners. And so all of us are on different points on that path, inside the church, outside the church. But I do think that in general, the corrosive, you know, the cursing of God or of Jesus in, you know, just, oh, I, you know, I can't believe I missed this turn. And then using, you know, this expletive, it is offensive to fervent religious Christians. In fact, I don't know any really. Like, I again, for. Again, everyone says they're a Christian. I get it. Right. You know, every, you know, I, I tell people, you know, that, that I'm a great basketball player. You can say whatever you want. Right. But I find that fervent Christians pretty universally are offended by someone using the name of deity in a pejorative way. So, you know, maybe when someone, you know, who's a Christian is taking the Lord's name in vain, it's probably a better reflection of the fact that, you know, that's an area that they're struggling with and that maybe they don't have as close a relationship with God as they hope they do. You know, you can't expect anyone to be perfect, but at least the fervent Christians I know, they, they seem to take it pretty seriously and doesn't mean they're perfect. But none of us are.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's great answer, Garrett. We now have the the last email that I was going to read first.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Glad I you button hooked me by saying, do you want the one from Canada? And there were two from Canada. How was I supposed to know?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

How would you have known? I set you up. This comes to us from Curtis. The Day and the hour is the is the subject Longtime Littner first time caller. I listened to the podcast while driving to work at 6am haven't fallen asleep yet. You're playing with fire.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. Curtis, I need you for the sake of your family to stop listening to us in the morning. I shouldn't tell people to not listen to the podcast. No one should telling you if, if you haven't already woken completely up, you cannot listen to the podcast.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, so I mean, he's from Magrath, Alberta. I'm sure that's kind of like a probably a balmy 73 in the winter. There's not.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh yeah, everybody's always saying, I just can't believe how warm Alberta is in the winter.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I hear that all the time.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You know, I guarantee there's people from Nunavut that say that for sure. People. None of it are like, oh, what are you down there in Alberta where everything's all rainbows and tropical trees and

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I listened to the podcast while driving to work. Haven't fallen asleep yet. Anyway, on a YouTube channel they used a quote from Joseph Smith discussing the day in the hour. And then he sources a quote from the quote from Joseph Smith. Christ says, no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of man cometh. Matthew 24:36. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations? Oh no, he spoke to the present tense. No man that was then living upon the footstool of God, knew the day or the hour. But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No, for this would be in flat contradiction with other scriptures. For the prophets say that God will do nothing, but he will reveal his secret unto his servants, the prophets. Joseph Smith and This is from April 6, 1843. Is there more to this quote? It Seems to Contradict D&C49.7 and gives the idea the prophet will be told when. If it helps get me on the show. My brother served in the Minneapolis, Minnesota Minneapolis mission from 86 to 88. So he knows your Wisconsin pain. I. I read his letters, so I felt his pain. I won't say where he served, but the missionaries would joke that when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden, the Lord lifted it out of Jackson county and put it in Southern Polynesia.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, speaking of tropical trees.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, thanks, Curtis from Magrath, Alberta. I hope I'm pronouncing Magrath right.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I guarantee we're not. No, I mean, what else have we ever pronounced correctly on this podcast?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

The.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, and even then, you know, we, we regularly fail at announcing what the name of the podcast is. So that's a really good question. I thought I'd spend a little bit of time on it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's a good question.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Now let me just say I'm trying to keep my dander down. Okay, Good luck. We've talked about this, and this comes up over and over and over again. There are a considerable number of Latter Day Saint styled podcasts, YouTubers, things like that. Now, this is pretty hypocritical because here I am, a Latter Day Saint podcaster saying this, but there is an inordinate number of them who have dedicated their page to the signs of the second coming, the preparation of the second coming. This particular podcast, YouTube that they're referring to, this person regularly, regularly makes claims that the second coming is very, very, very, very soon by claiming that there is a sign that has taken place. And for instance, I mean, they, they led with the fact that, you know, the Salt Lake Tribune, in an effort to, you know, shine a light on what's really going on inside the church, made quite a big deal over the past week about the fact that the church sold billions of dollars in its stock over the last year.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Right.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So what does this person do? See, the church is selling their stock because they're getting ready for the second right Now. If the church thought that it selling stock was a sign that you were supposed to use for the second coming, how do you think you would find out about that? I am going to go out on a limb and venture that the church doesn't think you should find out anything about the second coming of the Lord from the Salt Lake Tribune. My guess is that's not how the church thinks that you're going to garner

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

necessary information, but probably, probably Bloomberg TV or some, some stock Analysis show.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Well, in fact, you know, this, this podcast even went on to quote from an antagonistic site that has been, you know, leaking finances of the church for years. And so this should be a huge pause to you. Whenever somebody is willing to use unauthorized sources to try to make a point, it's time to dial it back a little bit because you don't know the veracity of the sources that are being used because they are literally unauthorized. And yet there isn't that caveat being put up about them. Why not? And frankly, like I said, the reason why it raises my dander a little

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

is

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

fearing about the end times plays upon the fears of people in an uncertain world. It plays upon the fact that there are people who are suffering and are desperate to have the Lord come, and they desperately want to be prepared and they don't want to. To not be ready when the bridegroom cometh. And so they have, you know, as one of these types of podcasts, you know, said over the past couple weeks that there's a comet that's coming very close to the earth, you know, in the near. In the near future. And it's. It's going to be so bright and probably that, you know, there's a very good chance that comet actually is the great sign before the second coming. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There is one thing that all of these YouTube prophets and podcasting, again, I. I know it's hypocritical. I am a podcaster, but there is one thing that every one of them that has claimed as a sign for the imminent second coming. There's one thing that every one of them has claimed has in common, and that is they have all been wrong. And they are consistently wrong. And even though they're consistently wrong, they don't then put out a podcast pointing out how many things they were wrong about. Because what drives the clicks is, did you see this? Obviously the prophet is telling us that, that it's coming right now. When it comes to the second coming, listen to what the prophets actually say. Is it near? Obviously the prophets say that it's near. What do you need to do to prepare? You'll notice that President Oaks doesn't ever say, go listen to a YouTube video. He doesn't ever say that. What you need to do to prepare. President Nelson was very clear. You need to go to the temple and you need to study the Book of Mormon, and you need to have the Holy Spirit as part of your testimony in your life. President Oaks has echoed Similar things. I know that there's a lot of people, they're like, yeah, but, but is this, you know, is this war? I mean, is. Is what's about to, you know, what happened in Iran, is that the beginning of the, of the war that's going to lead to the. Here's the most important part of that. You won't ever actually know. So, so the speculating on it can be like, oh, I. Oh, really? How intriguing. Oh, so. So the church sold a bunch of stock. Well, obviously the only reason why the church did that is there's a comet that's coming into range that. And whenever you get things like this, like this quote, what is the purpose of it? So, so here's a tool. When you're listening to people lay things out about what you should think about what the church's doctrine is, why are they utilizing the quote that they're utilizing? So look, if I quote Wilford Woodruff saying that, you know, the spirit world is a certain way, you should analyze me and you should say, why is Garrett using Wilford Woodruff quote? And why is he using this particular quote? Now, hopefully, the answer is, well, because Garrett knows that Wilford Woodruff was an apostle at the time, and then he was a prophet when he gave this other quote. And the question is, what do we know or what a prophet said about the spirit world? And, and so that's why Garrett's using that quote. Right? Hopefully that's the case. Now, look, I'm not perfect and I make mistakes all the time. I don't know everything. I don't even know some things, honestly. Like, I can't be the source of all knowledge because frankly, I'm an idiot half the time, right? So, I mean, how could I possibly know? And half the time is generous. But in this case, why do you think this particular YouTuber used this quote from that meeting? So you're thinking, well, how could I possibly know that? Well, let's go look it up. The great part about the Joseph Smith papers is, first of all, if someone's using the words of Joseph Smith, which is a published account of many of Joseph's sermons, you already know they're not going to the original source, right? We have the Joseph Smith Papers project. So go to the Joseph Smith Papers Project. When you go to the Joseph Smith Papers project and you click on April of, you know, you see, go to 1843. So go to Documents. We'll take every through. Go to documents, go to 1843. And you can slide down to these April talks. And you can even find the exact one that he's talking about, right? So April 6th, you know, kind of a big deal to us. April 6th, it comes up every now and then. And what do you see on April 6th? You see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. I think eight April 6th accounts of Joseph giving a discourse. We can click on the one that you said, the April 6 reported by James Burgess. Now when you're on the Joseph Smith Papers website, after you click on the document, you'll see that there's in, you'll see the name of it and you'll see a source note, and then you'll see historical introduction and, and just below that you'll see additional versions. Okay. When you click on that additional versions button, you will see all of the other versions where other people were recording that same talk. And when you do that, what do you see? You see there's a lot going on there, right? It's in the history of Joseph Smith, it's in the church history draft, it's in the published discourse in the Times and Seasons. So this talk was actually published by Joseph Smith while Joseph Smith was alive. You'll notice that it's in the minutes that are taken. You'll notice that Wilford Woodruff or William Clayton takes it down, that Willard Richards takes it down, that Franklin Richards takes it down. What won't you notice? Or this YouTuber didn't want you to notice. Or you know what, frankly, maybe they don't even know. But then I always come back to if you don't actually know, then it's time to pick a different topic. Right? If you don't understand how Joseph Smith's documents work, then probably don't just be grabbing them willy nilly and broadcasting them out to your followers because you're liable to make them think something that may not really be the case in this case. If we go to every one of these other sources, every one of them, there is actually no hint of what is in that James Burgess recorded statement. So given the fact that this talk was actually published by Joseph Smith in the times and seasons, it's a fairly safe bet that what Joseph thought people needed to know was what he also published. Now here's another problem with James Burgess. What's the date on the discourse? April 6th, 1843. Well, guess when James Burgess gets to Nauvoo like 10 days later, or maybe it's only 6, he doesn't get there until I think it's like April 12th. So what does that mean? It means it's impossible for James Burgess to be a firsthand eyewitness recording this at the time. So what is more likely? That every other person recording this sermon just left that part out and every part of it? That every single person did that,

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

or

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

that James Burgess who got it from a source? He had to get it from a source. I mean, he, he wasn't there. Right. That whatever his unidentified source was might have misinterpreted or misunderstood or written something down that wasn't quite the case. Right. What's more likely. Is it more likely that Franklin Richards leaves it out, William Clayton leaves it out, Willard Richards leaves it out, Joseph leaves it out? I mean, those things are all possible, but are they more likely to. They're certainly not more likely. At the very least, this is what you have to say about the James Burgess account of that sermon. You have to at the very least say James Burgess got his information from an unknown scribe who apparently wrote it down. But we don't know who that person is, and we don't even know if the person he got he. His information from was there at the meeting. It's impossible to know that because we, we know that James Burgess wasn't there. Now, that doesn't mean that there's anything malicious. I, I've said before, I regularly have people come up and talk to me, either about the podcast or after I give a fireside, who say, I really appreciated how you talked about this. And then the words that come out of their mouth are words I didn't say. And I don't even think, like, I don't believe them. So people come up and be like, I just love the fact that you promised everybody that, you know, as long as they're, they're faithful, that they're not going to have these trials happen to them. And I'm like, no, no, I, I of the things about life that I am certain of, right. I am certain that you are going to have trials and suffer even if you're righteous. Right. But that's not what someone took away from it. And you don't know, you know, what was on their mind if they were kind of thinking about something else. You know, no one's being malicious here. I'm not arguing for it being malicious, but my, my primary point is, first, this person who's sharing that quote had a responsibility to let you know that the person who is saying that Joseph said this wasn't there for Joseph to say it. They have responsibility to let you know that there are multiple accounts of the sermon, and none of them contain that part of it, except this. Now, they may not tell you and they may not know, but that goes back to my point of being incredibly careful about the sources you decide to rely upon. Because if the person doesn't know, well, then they shouldn't be talking about it. If the person does know, well, then they're deliberately concealing it. Both of those options are really bad options, right? And it wouldn't be such a bad option if they weren't trying to push your ideas in a certain way. And what's the idea they're trying to push here? That the second coming is super, super, super, super, super, super duper close. And it's probably going to happen next week. And for all you know, the prophet already knows. And that's the reason why President Oaks put out an invitation to conference that was weeks earlier than they've ever put out an invitation. And that proves, I mean, all of that kind of stuff, it can sure gin people up. But you want to know what the downside of that is? Ask the Millerites what the downside of that is. What happens when you so convince people that the second coming is happening at this general conference? What happens when it doesn't? Now, many people would be like, oh, we'll wait for more signs, but there will be some people convinced by reckless rhetoric. They. There will be some people who lose at least some or all of their faith. And. And that is the great danger. I look all of these podcasters predicting the signs of the second coming and end the world, and there's tons of them. Again, there's tons of them. I don't single anybody out. There are tons of them. I do believe that many of them really do mean well. I also believe that there are some who don't mean well at all. And they know what drives clicks. And talking about the second coming being imminent drives them in ways that no other thing does. Now, now they might respond to me. Well, you're just putting your head in the sand and, and not looking for the signs. And you're going to be like you're. You're one of the virgins who doesn't have any oil in their lamp because you're not ready. Except I am doing what the prophet of God told me to do. And he didn't say become an amateur astronomer and figure out how close a comet's going to get to earth. He didn't say follow the SEC filings to figure out how much stock the church sold. He didn't say check whether or not the church is Purchasing more land holdings in Missouri. He said, live the Gospel, go to the temple, read the Book of Mormon. Now, I'm not accusing any of these people of not doing that. I'm sure they do. But part of following the prophets is actually listening to what they actually say and not reading into what they say as a means of driving people's anxiety about it. Because here's what's almost certainly true. Everybody listening to me right now. It is far more likely that they will have their second coming because they die and they meet Jesus, then Jesus's coming is tomorrow. It's far more likely that through an accident, through a misstep, we've all lost loved ones that died far too early. And so we need to live our lives prepared, not because we saw a comet buzz the earth.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

That's not why we don't live our life prepared, because, oh, Covid, look. Disease everywhere, right? Look, if those kinds of things are what get you to start reading the Book of Mormon and going to the temple. Great, great. Whatever it takes. If a volcano blows up in Philippines and you go, that's it. This is the sign. I'm going to start living the gospel, then I'm very happy about that. But I do think you have to be incredibly careful with people who attempt to interpret the signs. And the point of presenting this quote was, well, the prophet already knows. That's why he sold the stock. That's why he sent out an early message for conference. That's why he said this is going to be a very important conference. And again, that's great if we get people to go to the temple and read the Book of Mormon. But what happens when you go to general conference? And it's like every other general conference and it's amazing. But, but President Oaks doesn't start his talk. I'd like to start my talk today by saying when Jesus will be coming tomorrow. I mean that what happens when it's not that. And, and that's why it's. Look, end of times predictions, end of times signs, they were something that the early members of the church were constantly dealing with as well. In fact, it's in this conference talk that he's. The other accounts of this conference talk that Joseph Smith is deliberately trying to do the opposite of what this YouTube channel is doing. Joseph Smith is trying to tell people that it is not about to happen. That's what he's the, the point of this quote is the second coming isn't happening yet. It's in this talk that Joseph says that he'd been praying about it and God told him to stop worrying about it and that if he lived until he's 85 years old. Right. That, that, that, that it wouldn't, it wouldn't happen before then. So it's doubly problematic when you take a source that has no other cooperating evidence and then you use the source in a way the author clearly didn't intend. Did Joseph Smith intend this source to gin people up into believing that the second coming is happening, like right now? Well, obviously not, because the point of the, the talk was to tell people that, that it wasn't happening for decades. Now, where it comes to the principle of whether or not God will reveal everything to his servants, the prophets. I mean, I think prophets are going to have a pretty good idea, but you still have to go back to, of that day or hour. No man knoweth, not even the angels in heaven. And maybe at some point that, that, you know, the Lord is going to reveal to the prophets. Okay, it's go time on Idol, as Richard likes to say. You know, we've approached full go hour. But I think the more introspective thing that we all need to do as Latter Day Saints is to ask ourselves, am I living in a way so that if Jesus does come tomorrow, that I am ready to see my Savior and fall down at his feet and grab those marked hands and thank him for the Gospel, thank him for his atonement, thank him for my family? Am I living in such a way that I could do that? I think a lot of times people like end time speculation because it gives them an out. It allows them to say, okay, well, I still have a little bit more time to get myself right. But all of that assumes that you aren't hit by a bus tomorrow. No one knows there are rogue buses everywhere. Right. You know, you have no idea. You think that you, you. That as long as I discern the times, all signs of the times, I'll be ready. Now, I think there's some people who wanted to serve the times because they're so excited at the idea of Jesus coming. Oh, my goodness, we could make this a better place. How incredible would that be if there was no more sin and there was no more war and there was just happiness. I mean, I think that there's a lot of people who look forward to it just because they want the peace that comes with, with the Lord returning. At the same time, that peace isn't generated by a faulty belief that a certain sign happens to be the sign of the Second Coming. I've made my rule. This. Unless the current prophet is the one saying, hey, this, this solar eclipse is the sign of the second coming, I will just instead try to work to make myself slightly better than I was yesterday. I've got enough issues with my own ability to live the commandments, enough repentance that I need to do that. I don't need to be chasing after every comet or star thinking, this is it. This is the big one. I need to just be a better person. And it's literally what President Nelson taught over and over and over again. You just need to change who you are. Yeah, it's getting close. The one true thing about all ends of times discussions is it is getting closer than it was last time. Yep, it is. But I. I think that what we need to do to prepare for that, it is only going to be coming from the current prophet. It just is. And it's the only safe way to be. I could read all kinds of quotes from Brigham Young out of context. I could read a quote and say, this is a quote from a prophet about how he believes the destruction of the nation is soon at hand. And I. The prophet said this. I could tell everybody, and everybody listening to the podcast, you know, especially Owen, are like, oh, no. My mom just barely became the Stake Relief Society president. We need more time to bask in the glow. So I could take a quote out of context and use it to drive that fear, but it would be taking it out of context in this sense. I'm not even sure where the source of this comment comes from, because James Burgess got it from someone else. And whoever that someone is, I don't know where they got it. I know that if it was the theme of Joseph's sermon, it did a very poor job of impressing itself on everyone else who listened because they didn't record it. So if it was in the talk, it certainly wasn't a big part of the talk. And if it was in the talk and was intended to be the most important part of the talk, then only the unidentified person who wrote it down, who later gave something to James Burgess, who later wrote it down, they're the only ones who got it. And frankly, that's just not how we get doctrine. So I believe prophets will lead us to what we need to do to prepare for the second Coming. You don't have to live in fear. I realize it is super enticing to listen to people talk about the signs of the times. I mean, I gotta tell you, I've done a lot of it Myself, like I was reading all kinds of books when I was younger, like, oh, okay, I see. The gospel has to be preached to all the nations first. Well, technically there was once a marine stationed in Uzbekistan and he shared the gospel. And I mean, I've done all of it. Right? So I, maybe I, maybe the reason why I'm reacting the way I am is I am that guy. Right. I just obviously don't have as good a presentation. That was before Richard.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

But I think we need to recognize that if we're more excited, if we're more enticed about listening to or studying. And I'm not saying this about our emailer at all. I think they are skeptical of it and that's the reason why they wrote in. They're like, what? What is this? And so, you know, But I think that, that for other people, if you find yourself more enamored with what someone has to say about the second coming on a podcast or a YouTube video or a TikTok reel than you are about what the prophets themselves are currently saying, then that's the time for a course correction. And again, it doesn't mean that anyone saying these things is bad. You know, there can be a lot of good that comes from looking at the signs and seeing that God has prepared the signs. We even talked about in, you know, a recent podcast on the premium side about the fact that Joseph Smith is told by the angel Moroni that a sign that this is the true work is how much it would be fought against. So I, there's, there's great value in, in seeing the signs that God has given. But when it comes to trying to say this, this is the sign of the second coming, I think you pump the brakes and you say there's only one person. Even if that quote were 100%, even that quote is saying the only person who could know would be the prophet. So if the only person who could know is the prophet, then everything outside of that is just speculation. Speculation's fun. Speculation sells books. Speculation gets you clicks and likes, and speculation is what sells. But the downside to speculation is that it doesn't always land back down to earth on a nice soft land landing, and it doesn't always stay contained inside the speculation boundaries that you thought you were putting it in. We, we, we know this in Latter Day Saint history that there are people who speculate and then they just keep speculating, and then they speculate to a point where the church eventually says, hey, stop saying that. And they're faced with a choice of do I keep saying it because I built my entire following over it, and many of them keep doing it. I, you know, I think of. We were talking about George Watt, you know, and George Watt talked about him on a previous episode, you know, and the thing, the way he recorded these sermons, by the way.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

By the way, we got a text from a. From a lady in our ward who's related to George Watt. And that foot race to the baptism is a thing of legend in their family, so they're all very proud of it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

They probably all also love the story of John outracing Peter to the sepulcher.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

They like all scripture or history references to racing. Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So, like, when Paul says, you know, run a good race, they're all over that, too.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. Yeah. The entire Maurer family loves scripture references to racing. This is their favorite.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Anything that has sprinting in it. You know, they probably own a sprinter van and just whatever. Whatever it takes. But, you know, we made this reference to George Watt. What happened with George Watt? Well, George Watt became enamored with some of the Godby spiritualist doctrines. Right. And. Well, who was William Godby? William Godby was someone claiming that you could communicate with spirits on the other side. He was also someone who said that Brigham Young didn't have the right to dictate to the saints what they should do financially. And Brigham Young's like, well, actually kind of what I do as prophet. Yeah, I'm going to tell you what you should and should have do. And. And, you know, Watt became so enamored with this spiritualism idea that even though he still loved the church, and even though he was told, hey, you got to stop doing this or you're going to get excommunicated, he got himself excommunicated. And he made petition to come back to the church multiple times, and they wouldn't let him back in. Why? Because he wouldn't give up his spiritualism's idea. And so that's one of the things I worry about. There are people that I personally know. I know not. Not someone wrote in, I know people. That makes it sound like I'm some kind of a mobster. I know people. Okay, we could. We could take care of this. Forget about it. We could take care of this right now. I know people who at one point were incredibly faithful Latter Day Saints, and they were so faithful, they were so excited about it. They. They jumped on board to any of this kind of ends of time stuff. And the person I'm thinking about right now in particular was certain that the COVID Outbreak and the government response to it was the sign of the second coming. And that, that was the collapse of the government. They were certain about it. You look at all the signs. Oh, Garrett, you'd have to, you'd have to have your head in the sand and not see all these signs. Well, that isn't what happened. And then when the church announced its policies and practices during the pandemic, they were the opposite of what this person had been saying. And so they then were in this position where they'd been so loud about their, Their, Their take that they had to say, well, the church didn't really say that. Well, here's the prophet saying it. Well, the prophet's obviously wrong about that. And, well, the prophets. The prophet, though. Yeah, but he's obviously wrong because I think so. And, and it actually spiraled for them and they went from being, you know, I'll punch you right in the mouth if you have anything to say about the church to apostatizing from the church. And so that is part of the reason why you have to be careful. You want to know how to get ready for the second coming? Read the scriptures, listen to the prophet. And don't listen to someone trying to interpret the prophet for you when someone's trying to say. And you'll notice that usually we only have a four week run up to general conference, but this time it was a five week. And obviously the fact it's a five week, that's because there were five points on the star that was at the temple in Nauvoo, pointed downward. Why? Because heaven was pointing down to reach up. I realized that stuff's fascinating. The gospel of Jesus Christ is fascinating enough. Hearing words from a living prophet with all of the keys reaching down to, to. To give us the words of the Lord Jesus Christ is fascinating enough. Now, I don't mean that we shouldn't study things literally. My whole life is studying church history and statements, and that's part of what we're doing. Heavens, we didn't get to talk about what Enoch and angels are doing this time. We'll never talk about it again. We, we're halfway through wanting to talk about Tertullian, which Richard just mocked me for.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, no, you. Well, so, I mean, a double.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I will not accept.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

There was not mockery, there was mocking. But I feel, and I feel reproved. And I will say that teasing Tertullian twice is tempting fate. But we'll see. We'll see who comes back.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I mean, so are we going to go full Tertullian at the live event. I don't know. I mean, no, gosh. Gosh.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You and Matt. Oh, gosh.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Still have a lot of Joseph. We need to cover with Enoch too, so we'll get back to that.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

But.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

But I just want to impart that study what prophets have said. But if you have to go back to what you know was said in a 1942 conference talk as proof that the church selling its stock over the last quarter is evidence that Jesus is coming tomorrow, well, that's not how God delivers his truth. There has always been in Christianity those who claim that they have special knowledge that no one else has because only they were willing to listen the right way or connect the dots together. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a giant Da Vinci Code where you're just. You've got strings all over the place and if you can only connect them, then you could figure it out. At its heart, it is simple, right? The prophets say that. That the Lord Jesus Christ suffered and died for us, that he restored his church to the earth by giving power and authority to Joseph Smith and other prophets. And there's a lot of nuance in that. I know there's a ton of things that happen around it. There's tons of doctrines that are taught. I'm just. I am. At least for my part, I'm imploring our listeners, Please, please be careful. And I've said it before, even with me, if you think that I am saying something that contradicts what the current prophet is saying, you better not even think about listening to me. I have no keys. I have no special witness for Christ. I am a desperate believer who absolutely believes that Joseph Smith saw God and that all of the keys of the priesthood are held by President Oaks. I believe that to my very core. With whatever I've studied, whatever I've done, I am certain that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus. But I have literally no authority to declare doctrine zero, not even a little bit. So if, if, if it ever comes across that I'm saying something like, well, that's not what President Oak said. Well, first of all, maybe there's a confusion. Hopefully. Hopefully I'm not just some kind of crazy apostate. But second of all, don't even hesitate. We follow prophets and apostles. That that's what we covenant to do. That's what this church is about. It is about being humble enough to let someone who the Lord has designated to tell us what's going on. And he doesn't hide in secret places the things that the Lord wants you to know. He tells you so. I know for a lot of people it's just exciting and it's just, oh, interesting. But, oh, that's so interesting. Very quickly can turn into that's the most important thing. And, oh, that's the most important thing can sometimes turn into it's the only thing. And then it turns into apostasy. And. And I am a desperate believer, and. And so I don't want anyone to end up with that. If there is anything in your life that you find yourself caring more about than what the prophets of God are saying, cut it out of your life. Political, social, what, whatever it is, Satan is going to use that as a tool to try to pull you away from the core of the gospel. That doesn't mean there's not tons of stuff to learn. I'm not saying that legitimately. This entire podcast exists to answer questions that people have to come up with the original sources. I am not saying don't study. What I'm saying is be careful where you place your stock, because emotion, even well intended emotion, can lead us in a direction that we, we that the prophets are not specifically telling us to go. So I know I've gone over time, that was the worst podcast we've ever done. I mean, second worst, maybe third worst.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We've done way worse.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I did want to give you that one on townships.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I think that, yeah, that one was the worst. I, I will say I did. While, first of all, it was beautiful. Appreciate your testimony. And I, of course, I agree with you. It looks like Pueblo, Colorado, closed up 'Thrifty Nickel in 2025. Eastern New Mexico closed up in 2018. But Mobile, Alabama is still alive and kicking with thrifty Nickel. And certain regions of Texas, I'm sure they're more.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

No, Idaho. No Idaho.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, I haven't found Idaho yet. We. We hope so.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Every person who's over the age of 30 in Idaho knows about the thrifty nickel.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We're older than you might remember. Over 30 might not do it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay, 35.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

If you're over the age of 72, you might have seen a thrifty nickel. And we want to know. We want to know what things are going on.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Was called the thrifty Penny.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We want to know. We want to know what's happening in Paul. We want to know what's happening in Burley and Salmon.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Hagerman.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Hagerman, right. Is there one outside of the horse? Do you ever go see the Hagerman horse?

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

By the way, what about Oahi? We got. No, I never did.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It's. It's incredible. Estate fossil. What a funny thing to say.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Anyway, estate fossil is usually your oldest living senator.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Hey.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, well, thank you so much for joining us. We will get back to Enoch. Maybe not on our next episode because the live event, Richard thinks it's kind of a turnoff to talk about the Book of the Watchers and Enoch and angels marrying mortals. I have tried.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You've turned me, actually, that if you cut out some of the Tertullian stuff or that is the tertilian stuff.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's all Tertullian. It's just a Tertullian Clement of Alexandra party.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It's like it's Fletch. It's all Tertullian these days.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, it's all Tertullian these days. It's all ball bearings these days, guys. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for your faith. Thank you for your emails. Honestly, I cry sometimes when I get the emails that people send in. I know that so many of you are going through so much and I wish I had the ability in some way to help. I pray that you have some of your difficulties made lighter. And all I can say is as there are so many of you going through hard times, the great promise of the gospel of Jesus Christ is there will come a time when there will be no more tears forever. And everything you are suffering will eventually end. And if you endure it well, as Joseph was told, the reward is eternities of bliss. And I know that's really hard when you are suffering, because I don't want to feel better eventually. I want to feel better yesterday. But I hope that you will hang on to that hope that the gospel and atonement of Jesus Christ gives us. Eventually everything will be made right. And whether that second coming is 400 years from now or four days from now or four minutes from now, the important part is whether or not you are striving to live the gospel and follow what the prophets have to say, that you have that relationship with the Lord Jesus and so his coming is not something that is to be feared, but to be welcomed. So thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Garrett Dirkmot and Dr. Richard Leduc. If you know of anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. Until next time.