STATECRAFT: “A Statecraft Fall Roundup”
Host: Santi Ruiz
Guest: Director Michael Karazios, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy
Date: October 23, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode of Statecraft, host Santi Ruiz sits down with Michael Karazios, the Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP). As President Trump’s top science and technology advisor in both his administrations, Karazios has been at the center of U.S. efforts to accelerate scientific innovation, especially around artificial intelligence (AI) and advanced infrastructure. The conversation covers the administration’s AI Action Plan, America’s approach to global tech leadership, strengthening scientific standards, lessons from previous terms, and the challenges of attracting tech talent to government. Ruiz and Karazios delve into the nuts and bolts of policy execution and the evolving relationship between technology, government, and global competitiveness.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The “Golden Age of American Innovation” and the Problem of Stagnation
- Karazios’s Vision: The U.S. faces technological stagnation in areas like energy and manufacturing, which is “an absolute tragedy” (01:27).
- Role of Government: Historically, the federal government catalyzed innovation (e.g., Manhattan & Apollo Projects). Now, most R&D is private sector-funded, so the government’s role must adapt.
“The challenge we have faced... is the changing nature of where early stage, basic precompetitive research and development happens.” (02:22)
2. Overview of the AI Action Plan
- Genesis: President Trump, on his third day back in office, revoked the prior administration’s AI executive order and set a 180-day timeline for a new national strategy (05:25).
- Three Main Pillars:
- Out-innovate: Keep U.S. AI leadership through R&D and smart regulation.
- AI Infrastructure: Rapidly build out data centers and power capacity.
- Exporting American AI: Promote adoption of U.S.-built AI tech globally.
“There are almost 100 actions enumerated in [the Action Plan], but they generally fall into those three buckets.” (06:35)
3. Balancing AI Sovereignty and Export Promotion
- The U.S. is pushing export of its AI stack but respects other countries’ desires for AI sovereignty.
- Lessons from the “Huawei wars” motivate a strategy to ensure U.S. technology remains the global standard—America must offer both the best tech and competitive pricing.
“Just because you have the very best technology, that doesn't mean it's going to be adopted. Price actually does matter...” (07:57)
4. International Diplomacy and the “Year-long Lead”
- U.S. currently holds a substantial but time-limited lead in AI hardware and models; “we have this window of time in the next year or two” to cement global leadership (10:59).
- U.S. is pushing hard diplomatically and operationally (e.g., at the APEC Ministerial in Korea) to promote American tech adoption abroad.
On Sovereignty: “We can design a system… which can allow [countries] to operate American software in a way that is able to sort of meet whatever standards they have in-country.” (11:45)
5. Protecting U.S. Tech and Infrastructure
- National security issues—telecom hacks and insider threats—underscore importance of controls on both the defensive and export-control front.
- U.S. continues to limit high-end chips and advanced AI tech exports to adversaries, maintaining the “rate limit” strategy first introduced in Trump’s earlier term. (13:41)
6. Accelerating Data Center & Energy Buildout
- Permitting Coordination: Streamlining NEPA and federal approvals; moving to a “one-stop shop” model.
- State and Local Bottlenecks: Collaborating with states to prioritize energy buildouts and leveraging federal lands for rapid deployment.
- Department of Energy: Already announced four new data center buildouts on federal land in first six months.
“The President directed… that we need to as quickly as possible accelerate that effort to remove those barriers and make it much easier to get your adjudication done…” (15:07)
7. The Federal Policy-Making Ecosystem
- OSTP’s Convening Role: Lacks statutory or budgetary muscle—works through convening agencies across the federal ecosystem.
- Inter-Agency Dynamics: Decentralized science & tech policy seen as a feature, not a bug; more leverage and involvement across agencies.
“[The U.S.] is blessed… with having lots of agencies that do different aspects of the larger S and T portfolio... The most exciting meetings for me are when we convene our National Science Technology Council, and all of the agency heads… come to the White House.” (18:28)
8. Lessons from Trump Administration 1 to 2
- Increased Importance: Technology, especially AI, is now “front and center”—unlike 2017–2021, “everyone in the Cabinet wants to participate and be part of it” (20:54).
- Policy Synergy: Stronger political capital and bureaucratic focus on tech as a national priority.
9. The Posting-to-Policy Pipeline & Horizontal Information Flow
- Compared to 2017, policy ideas now move more quickly from blogs and “posters” to policymakers—there’s “much better information flows and… the policy ends up in a better place.” (22:44)
10. Attracting Technical Talent to Government
- Still a “real challenge” due to slow-moving rules, regulations, and strictability requirements (e.g., divesting from equity).
- The OSTP seeks new rotation programs and faster onboarding to draw more technical expertise into government.
“If I was going to rank places where I wish we could do better, I would rank this one pretty highly.” (24:10)
11. The "Edmunds Vision" for Gold-Standard Science
- Gold Standard Science: Executive order mandates reproducibility, high ethical standards, and smarter research funding.
- Funding Mechanisms: Advocates diversifying recipients, including focused research organizations (FROs) and not just universities.
- Grant Reform: Urges reform of overhead rates (F&A) for universities—“everyone knows it’s broken,” but it’s hard to fix (30:28).
“Universities do not and should not have monopoly on doing basic research funded by the federal government.” (28:55)
12. AI for Scientific Discovery
- AI is the “greatest unlock for science in the history of the world” (31:57).
- Federal agencies possess vast, siloed datasets (materials science, chemistry, etc). Building science-specific LLMs using this data is a top priority.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Stagnation:
“To me, I think it's an absolute tragedy the extent to which progress in the world of atoms has slowed down over the last few decades.” —Michael Karazios (01:32)
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On Technology’s Geopolitical Stakes:
“The ultimate software that is used to power health care services, to run tax services, to essentially be the in which all of governments run all their AI services is really, really important. And you want to be in a position where American models are the ones that are fine tuned to solve all of these...” —Karazios (09:23)
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On Interagency Collaboration:
“We're blessed… with having lots of agencies that do different aspects of the larger S and T portfolio... I think that actually creates even more leverage and allows us to do even more things.” —Karazios (18:57)
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On Attracting Tech Talent:
“Asking [talented people] to divest of all that is a really big ask. And I totally understand the rules… but you can imagine there are challenges.” —Karazios (24:50)
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On Gold Standard Science:
“Universities do not and should not have monopoly on doing basic research funded by the federal government. There's lots of amazing institutions out there...” —Karazios (28:55)
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On AI’s Potential for Science:
“Artificial intelligence is going to be probably the greatest unlock for science in the history of the world.” —Karazios (31:57)
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To the More AI-Cautious Listeners:
“There is a deep and fundamental appreciation for the value that technology can bring to changing the lives of Americans for the better… I don't want to wake up in 20 years when my kid's about to go to college and think to myself, wow, I wish we could have done more to make sure the US Was leading, because I think this is so important for the country.” —Karazios (34:07)
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Final Call to Action:
“We have a unique moment in time where we have a present that's deeply committed to ushering in this new golden technological age. And we have a country which has never been firing at a stronger pace and rate in scientific and technology discovery than today.” —Karazios (35:33)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:27 — Vision for “Golden Age of American Innovation” and stagnation
- 05:25 — AI Action Plan and its three pillars
- 07:28 — Balancing global AI export with national tech sovereignty
- 10:59 — U.S. window of opportunity in global AI leadership
- 13:41 — Protecting American tech infrastructure and export controls
- 15:07 — Accelerating data center and energy infrastructure build-out
- 17:58 — OSTP’s convening and coordinating power in federal science policy
- 20:54 — Lessons and differences between Trump administrations
- 22:44 — Horizontal information flow: “posting to policy pipeline”
- 24:10 — Challenges and aspirations for tech talent in government
- 25:40 — The “Edmunds vision” for gold-standard science
- 28:44 — The rise and significance of focused research organizations (FROs)
- 30:28 — University funding reform and indirect (F&A) costs
- 31:57 — AI as a tool for scientific discovery; government’s role with scientific data
- 33:41 — Addressing AI risk skepticism and the admin’s stance
- 35:21 — Final words and call to action
Takeaway
This episode provides a comprehensive, insider’s look at the new contours of U.S. science and technology policy. Karazios articulates a vision where government swiftly partners with industry, leverages American leadership in AI, reforms funding for discovery, and remains vigilant on tech security—all while attempting to streamline bureaucracy and attract talent. For anyone interested in how the machinery of science, tech, and policy works at the highest levels of government, this conversation delivers both the big picture and the operational details behind America’s ongoing tech push.