Statecraft Podcast Episode Summary: "How to Beat Megafires"
Host: Santi Ruiz
Guest: Matt Weiner, CEO and Founder of Megafire Action
Release Date: February 7, 2025
In this insightful episode of Statecraft, host Santi Ruiz engages with Matt Weiner, a seasoned advocate in wildfire management and the driving force behind Megafire Action. Drawing from his extensive experience growing up in Los Angeles and his tenure as the Executive Director of the California Democratic Congressional delegation, Matt delves deep into the multifaceted challenges of managing and mitigating megafires, particularly in Southern California.
1. Personal Connection to Wildfires
Timestamp: [01:13]
Matt Weiner opens up about his personal experiences with wildfires, highlighting how growing up in Topanga Canyon instilled in him a profound understanding of fire dynamics. He recounts evacuating his parents during the Woolsey Fire, emphasizing the unpredictable and devastating nature of modern wildfires:
“...once you start reintroducing fire, we can have conversations about letting fire in certain cases take its course, where it makes sense and where it's healthy.” – Matt Weiner [06:22]
2. Firefighting Organizations in Southern California
Timestamp: [02:46]
Santi Ruiz prompts Matt to outline the key players in Southern California's firefighting landscape. Matt identifies several organizations, each with distinct roles:
“...Cal Fire, which is the state fire department that is probably the best wildland firefighting force in the world.” – Matt Weiner [03:33]
He elaborates on the roles of the Los Angeles Fire Department, LA County Fire Department, Cal Fire, the National Park Service, and the U.S. Forest Service, highlighting Cal Fire's unparalleled expertise in suppression and mitigation.
3. Recent LA Wildfires: Scale and Impact
Timestamp: [05:10]
Discussing the recent LA wildfires, Matt differentiates between landscape-driven fires and wildland-urban interface fires. He describes the latter as “urban conflagrations” that result in unprecedented destruction:
“...it's really hard to fathom the scale of destruction.” – Matt Weiner [06:22]
Santi notes the alarming trend of increasing fire severity, to which Matt attributes climate change, historical fire suppression policies, and poor community design:
“We're pushing the bounds of what we're capable of suppressing here. It’s overwhelming all of our systems.” – Matt Weiner [07:44]
4. Causes of Increasing Fire Severity
Timestamp: [07:35]
Matt explains that decades of fire suppression have led to overly dense forests, which, when combined with drought and climate change, create tinderbox conditions:
“It was really hard for us to get in there and do what we need to do from a landscape level.” – Matt Weiner [09:32]
He emphasizes the necessity of mechanical thinning and prescribed burns to restore natural fire regimes and reduce fire intensity by up to 70%:
“If you do mechanical thinning and prescribed fire, you can reduce the intensity of fires on forested landscapes by 70%.” – Matt Weiner [11:12]
5. Landscape Management and Challenges
Timestamp: [10:09]
Santi explores the obstacles in landscape management, to which Matt cites resource limitations and bureaucratic hurdles, including stringent regulations like NEPA and liability concerns:
“The main impediment to better landscape management is resources than bureaucracy.” – Matt Weiner [14:54]
He shares anecdotes of prescribed burns being halted due to legal challenges, underscoring the systemic issues that impede effective fire management.
6. Funding and Resources for Mitigation
Timestamp: [15:22]
Addressing funding, Matt clarifies that even significant federal investments fall short of the $50 billion needed over a decade to implement comprehensive wildfire mitigation:
“To fund the wildfire crisis strategy at the current cost per acre would cost about $50 billion over 10 years.” – Matt Weiner [17:24]
He advocates for investing in a federal workforce, infrastructure, equipment, and developing a bioeconomy to economically utilize forest waste.
7. Federal Agencies and Permitting Issues
Timestamp: [19:18]
Matt critiques the inefficiencies within federal agencies, particularly the U.S. Forest Service, which spends 40% of its time on planning and permitting rather than implementation:
“40% of its work on national forests is the planning and assessment and permitting part.” – Matt Weiner [26:46]
He argues that the lengthy environmental reviews under NEPA are counterproductive, delaying essential mitigation projects:
“There needs to be real urgency injected into the conversation about how we get these projects on the ground.” – Matt Weiner [25:37]
8. Environmental Regulations and Opposition
Timestamp: [26:34]
The discussion shifts to opposition from environmental groups, rooted in historical mistrust of agencies like the Forest Service:
“There is a real reason to be mistrustful, and I don't want to minimize that at all.” – Matt Weiner [27:24]
Matt distinguishes between groups that oppose all forms of landscape management and those that support it but distrust federal agencies’ execution.
9. California's Treatment Programs and Challenges
Timestamp: [34:09]
Santi references California’s Vegetation Treatment Program, which has seen minimal progress despite substantial funding. Matt attributes this to insufficient focus on Southern California and bureaucratic inefficiencies:
“Southern California did not get the same level of investment as other high priority firesheds.” – Matt Weiner [36:33]
He underscores the need for targeted investments and improved coordination in high-risk areas.
10. Water Law and Watershed Impact
Timestamp: [38:19]
Though not Matt's primary expertise, he touches on the relationship between overgrown forests and strained watersheds:
“Having overly dense forested landscapes puts much greater strain on our watersheds by sucking more water out.” – Matt Weiner [40:21]
He highlights the ecological consequences of unmanaged forests on water resources.
11. Insurance System and Fair F.I.R.R.
Timestamp: [40:21]
Santi delves into California’s insurance challenges, particularly the Fair Fire Insurance Reform (Fair F.I.R.R.) plan. Matt explains that restrictive regulations hinder accurate risk pricing, exacerbating the insurance crisis:
“...it is very hard for insurers to accurately price risk in these areas.” – Matt Weiner [42:34]
He warns of the Fair Plan’s insolvency and the cascading effects on private insurers:
“This risk is not going anywhere... we need to take a step back and completely rethink the way we manage insurance in the state.” – Matt Weiner [45:36]
12. Megafire Action’s Recommendations
Timestamp: [46:11]
Concluding the discussion, Matt outlines Megafire Action’s three-pronged approach to combating megafires:
- Investment in Landscape-Scale Mitigation: Amplifying funding for mechanical thinning and prescribed burns.
- Enhancing the Built Environment: Encouraging community-level resilience through defensible space and infrastructure improvements.
- Leveraging New Technologies: Utilizing real-time detection, tracking, and decision-support tools to enhance fire management efficiency.
He envisions a more centralized decision-support system to provide a unified operating picture across jurisdictions:
“There's no one entity in this country that is responsible for evaluating risk and making decisions about how to manage and deal with fire across jurisdictions and landscapes.” – Matt Weiner [48:46]
Matt also highlights the bipartisan momentum around the Fix Our Forest Act, emphasizing the opportunity for structural reforms within federal agencies to unify and optimize wildfire response:
“We think we're at a really unique moment... where we think that a lot of good could happen here in a bipartisan way.” – Matt Weiner [56:34]
He concludes by advocating for professionalizing the federal firefighting workforce and reimagining agency structures to better address the evolving wildfire crisis.
Conclusion
This episode of Statecraft offers a comprehensive exploration of the complexities surrounding megafires in California. Through Matt Weiner’s expert insights, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the interplay between environmental regulations, federal agency inefficiencies, funding inadequacies, and the pressing impact of climate change. The conversation underscores the urgent need for systemic reforms, increased investment in proactive mitigation strategies, and innovative technological solutions to effectively combat the escalating threat of megafires.