#154 - Neal Brennan

Summary

Stavvy's World Episode #154 – Neal Brennan

Recorded: November 10, 2025
Host: Stavros Halkias
Guest: Neal Brennan

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking, playful, and at times philosophical episode of Stavvy's World, comedian Neal Brennan joins Stavros Halkias and producer Eldis for a freewheeling, two-hour-plus conversation. The episode weaves through topics such as gentrification and cultural preservation, the value of artistic mediums, the psychology of romantic relationships and inceldom, and classic comedic tales from their personal lives and careers. The core of the episode is marked by musings about "what it means to be human," with Neal and Stav juggling big societal questions, personal stories, and advice for listeners on love and life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gentrification, Nostalgia & the Fate of Cultural Landmarks (01:14–07:12)

• Opening Riff: The episode kicks off with a discussion about the transformation of New York’s CBGB's punk club into branded retail, raising issues of nostalgia, the value of preserving cultural landmarks, and the economics of commercial real estate.
• Stav’s Take: Stav laments the “shrinking” of New York’s cultural character, arguing for the preservation of non-monetary value in urban spaces:

  "There is inherent cultural value to keeping a shitty rock club that was famous… even if it doesn’t make money." —Stavros (03:46)

• Neal’s Counter: Neal is less nostalgic, arguing for pragmatic use and turnover of space, questioning why cultural value always trumps economic realities.
• Government & Culture: The conversation veers into Europe’s model of government-supported arts, as Stav wishes America had a government Office of Culture.

Notable Quote

• “People think brands are their friends. We’d be better off if there were certain places that were cultural landmarks, that generate a value that is not dollars, that is just: it is cool this is still here.” —Stavros (05:55)

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2. Comedy, Movies, and the Hierarchy of Art Forms (07:12–16:37)

• Marvel, Screenwriting, & Comedy:
  • Discussion pivots to Marvel movies, improvisation, and the artistic merits (and downsides) of letting actors riff.
  • Stav confesses to habitually watching Thor: Ragnarok on mushrooms, sharing a wild story about taking too many and tripping hard while bedridden.
• Finding Fulfillment in Standup vs. Acting:
  • Both reflect on why standup is so gratifying compared to acting, writing, or making movies.
  • Neal reminisces about his days as a young comic in NYC and the intimidating, isolating entry into the industry.
• Creative Drive:
  • Stav expresses desire to get "good at acting" simply because it's a new challenge, underscoring the value of chasing personal growth.

Notable Quotes

• “[Movies are] the last thing that you actually have to watch how it's intended... in a world where things are disposable, that’s the world I want to create for.” —Stavros (39:35)
• “I always thought [standup] was cooler than TV shows. Even during TV shows I was like: standup’s cooler than this.” —Neal (36:45)

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3. The Role of Romantic Relationships, Inceldom & the Meaning of Human Experience (53:33–1:19:06)

• Incels and Aspiration:
  • Neal and Stav explore Reddit incel subcultures and debate if aspiring to "have a companion" is necessary for young men or if it's cultural baggage.
  • Neal questions the centrality of romance/pair-bonding as men’s highest aspiration, suggesting personal fulfillment or contentment can exist outside of it.
• Stav’s Perspective:
  • Defends the pursuit of love/companionship as fundamental, likening it to "going out to see the sun," and sees "touching grass" (real connections) as essential humanity.
• AI, Robots, and Simulation:
  • Neal provocatively asks: if robot girlfriends or simulacrums offer the same feelings, does it matter? Stav firmly rejects a world where connection is only "lab-grown," arguing the challenge and mutuality of real relationships is essential.
• Synthesis:
  • Despite apparent disagreement, both agree that personal growth should precede relationships—and that obsessing over romance can damage self-worth, but isolating from it forever is also limiting.

Notable Quotes

• “You just get whatever you want too easily… part of the joy is that it is hard and that you’re combining forces with another person who’s a completely separate entity. And it’s not just pleasing yourself.” —Stavros (82:29)
• “I want to give these beautiful young men... the option. It’s just an option. It’s a way to go —it doesn’t have to be the highest aspiration.” —Neal (79:06)

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4. Relationships, Therapy, and Self-Sabotage (1:20:00–1:29:00)

• Learning from Bad Relationships:
  • Neal recounts cycles of bad relationships, therapy, and the tendency to stay too long due to cultural scripts. He stresses the importance of acknowledging one’s own needs/preferences, not just conforming to external ideals.
  • They riff about dating disasters, self-sabotage, and accepting the messy "trial and error" process of dating and growth.

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5. Advice Calls: Infidelity, Hating Your Nephew, and Intellect in Dating (1:31:43–1:29:12+)

• Helping an Almost-Cheater Cope with Guilt (92:13):
  • A caller confesses to stopping a liaison with a married, minor celebrity he admired after she took a call from her husband mid-makeout.
  • Neal says: “I would’ve gotten harder… but you did the right thing.” (94:24)
  • Both agree the caller’s morality is his compass, and that these human complications are natural; don’t sweat what “might have been.”
• Can You Hate Your Kid Nephew? (103:43):
  • A listener asks if it’s okay to dislike his pain-in-the-ass toddler nephew.
  • Stav: “Grow up, dude. He’s a kid. Stop being an ass.”
  • Neal and Stav agree: kids are chaotic and often annoying—but that’s part of what makes them people, and hating children says more about you than them.
• How to Find an Intellectually Stimulating Hookup (117:02):
  • A woman wants a quick way to assess men for “intellectual connection” before sleeping with them.
  • Neal: “She’s contradicting herself: ‘I want to get laid, but also have an intellectual connection.’ If you just want to get laid, do that.” (120:16)
  • The group agrees: there’s no shortcut to sidestep normal social processes, even with standards—finding chemistry and intellect just takes effort and repetition.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Gentrification:
  “I do have a problem that brands have sort of taken a… people think brands are their friends.” —Stavros (05:36)

• On Pursuing Love & Humanity:
  “Your basic humanity is… looking for love, companionship. In the same way… going outside and looking at a bee. There’s a natural beauty in touching grass.” —Stavros (56:33)

• On Modern Entertainment Decay:
  “It’s polar bears fighting for this much ice… The coolest thing could be is a polar bear, they’ll kill anything, but they’re dying.” —Stavros & Neal on movie stars vs. new media fame (51:12)

• On Masculinity & Romance:
  “We take the horniness and then build this romance infrastructure around it.” —Neal (63:08)

• On Self-Growth Before Love:
  “If you’re somebody who struggles with self-esteem, there’s just something so rewarding about just getting good at something.” —Stavros (38:26)

• On AI Girlfriends/Robot Sex:
  “You just get whatever you want too easily. Part of the joy is that it’s hard… and not just pleasing yourself.” —Stavros (82:29)

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Segment Timestamps

• 01:14 – CBGBs, nostalgia, and cultural gentrification
• 07:12 – Marvel movies, improvisation, and personal mushroom trip stories
• 23:57 – Neal’s upbringing, film school, family dynamics
• 35:03 – Standup vs. acting, artistic hierarchy
• 39:35 – Disposability in media, content vs. “art”
• 53:33 – Incel culture; is romance overrated?
• 70:59 – Relationships, therapy, and self-sabotage cycles
• 92:13 – CALLER: Cheating with celebrity; guilt/morality discussion
• 103:43 – CALLER: Hating your nephew; discipline & childrearing
• 117:02 – CALLER: Fast-tracking intellectual dating connection

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Tone and Style

• Candid & Philosophical: Both hosts are honest about their personal histories, mental health, faults, and anxieties, blending self-deprecation with comedic insight.
• Casual & Relatable: While the episode is wide-ranging, the conversation is always grounded in personal stories—often hilariously specific or embarrassingly frank.
• Sharp Banter: The hosts challenge each other with devil’s-advocate takes, never shying away from disagreement or uncertainty.

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Summary For New Listeners

This episode is a classic example of Stavvy’s World at its best: a mix of wisecracks and soul-searching, with two heavy-hitter comics dissecting modern masculinity, romance, art, and the existential concerns of their millennial audience. If you’re wondering what awaits as comedy, dating, and humanity evolve in the digital age (and you want to laugh about it as you go), Stav and Neal’s playful but deep episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[Neil Brennan]

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[Stavros Halkias]

Movie night hits different when you plan it with Fandango. Open the app, find what's playing and grab your seats in seconds. No lines, no stress. Whether you're meeting up with friends or flying solo, Fandango makes last minute plans feel effortless. Plus, with fan club, you'll save every time you go to the theater. Download the Fandango app and make movie night happen anytime, anywhere. Papa. Welcome, Everybody, to Stavi's World. 904-800-stop- call in. We'll solve your problem. Coming at you live from the Manhattan studios, our permanent base here in the old CBGB's. We took over the John Varvato store that it used that is now in. And now it's Stavie Baby Studios.

[Neil Brennan]

Do you have an issue with that? When they like. I'm just. I'm not. I'm like kind of anti nostalgia.

[Stavros Halkias]

Mm.

[Neil Brennan]

If it's like really historical, sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

Cool. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, if it's, you know, over 100 years old, save it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Do I have an issue with it or like.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm not saying it. It should be a. What's the right thing to do with this? If CBGB is no longer a viable business, what's the landlord supposed to do? I own the building.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And this. This club, which they didn't treat it great, by the way.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right, right. I don't know. Yeah. I wonder what that place smelled like. You know what I mean? How much I'm not looking.

[Neil Brennan]

I don't think the Landlo. A lot of like upkeep.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no.

[Neil Brennan]

Don't get me wrong. It's like what's supposed to happen?

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay, that's a great question. I think here's the. Here's the issue. There is once we landlord is very interesting point there because do. Do I love the symbolism of something that's a cultural landmark being turned over to a brand that. Does anyone give a fuck about John Varva? Like, it'd be one thing if it was like something useful that people go to. I mean even a fucking Chipotle on some level. It's like, I completely agree. People go in and out of that place is going to get you.

[Neil Brennan]

We're talking about. And also a great, very salty chip.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Oh, when they.

[Neil Brennan]

An incredibly salty chip.

[Stavros Halkias]

When you get the batch that's fresh and this and you get that when you get the translucent chips completely where the salt is stuck to it.

[Neil Brennan]

Like go live on Instagram already.

[Stavros Halkias]

Christ almighty. But here's the thing. That's a brand nobody gives a. John Barb. It's like stupid shoes. And. And in fact, I would.

[Neil Brennan]

I thought it was going to be the coolest. That's. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, and I would venture to guess because here's the thing about those stores. A lot of the places in somewhere like New York like this happening with the REI in SoHo. Right. It's closing down. And part of that's because it's unionizing. And so they're like, well, you're a union now. We can't afford it. Stores like that in high rent places like lower Manhattan, they almost never make money. They are there as advertisers and show for. For these brands. So basically we live in a society.

[Neil Brennan]

Where valuable people like you and me.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Neil Brennan]

Can make them a part of our lives.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly. Exactly. Where's the paparazzi? Photograph me getting a helmet at rei. So I look. I mean if you've never seen a guy look stupider than me with the largest bike helmet, literally is true. I bought my bike helmet at that rei. Yeah, yeah. And.

[Neil Brennan]

And someone.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, no. I'm just saying, like it's. So basically there is no, there is no the, like as a business, it might even lose more money than CBGB's, but the value is an advertising value. And so I do have a problem that we. Because to me there is inherent cultural value to keeping a shitty rock club that was famous. Like, I would have loved to do.

[Neil Brennan]

A show for a movement that no longer exists because it's basically like punk and new wave in the late 70s.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure. But it's like, I think that it could. Like, I, I think it's cool when you go to a, a place that has multiple lives. Right. Like, like, you know, it would have been cool if it just kind of became a venue that like, like we're doing. You know, look what's going on with these beautiful theaters. We're playing places that were built for opera.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Do I belong there?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know. You know what I mean? Like, but even like the. In that, I guess it's.

[Neil Brennan]

I. I know what you mean. I guess it's Just certain places, it's like, can't they serve the. What they served and then move on? Like, can it just be like, there's something about, like, the turnover? In the same way that new wave was a response to what came before it. Can't a Chipotle sure, sure be the new wave?

[Stavros Halkias]

And my answer is no.

[Neil Brennan]

Can't Chipotle do to CB GB with punk and new wave did to Glamrock?

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No. Although symbolically, the answer is unfortunately, yes. Where it's like, yes. But I'm saying people love Chipotle. I bet you there's people way more than the fandom is. Like, there's people talking heads who would die. Exactly.

[Neil Brennan]

With a. With one bullet.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's unfortunately, people who would kill. You know, they'd be like, do I erase Chipotle or the Ramones from history? And a lot of people right now would have obviously picked Chipotle. But I would just say that that's a. That is a problem that brands have sort of taken a. People think brands are their friends. And you see how brands are tweeting and they're like, you know, just that kind of. They're doing memes and. And I hate. And so, yes, I think ultimately it is bad, and I think it. We would be better off if, you know, like, they. They're charging a higher rent probably to this corporate, you know, store or whatever. But I think we'd be better off if there were certain places there were, like, cultural landmarks, whatever, that generate a value that is not dollars, that is, like, it is cool that this is still here. That's as simple as that. And is that making money? Probably not. But I bet you around there would make more money. You know what I mean? Like, I bet you it would just be. It would keep sort of the character. And I think if. I mean, that's the problem with me. Like, it does feel like New York is shrinking culturally and that you do.

[Neil Brennan]

But I feel like if the government or some.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, I think the government. I honestly, like, support Office of Culture. I mean, look at. Look at Europe, where you want the.

[Neil Brennan]

Government in your arts. What are you saying?

[Stavros Halkias]

I 100% want the government. My heart without. I'm. That's. I'm no exaggeration, because other foreign countries have offices of film that support, like, filmmakers and are like, hey, it's really hard to get here. You make one cool indie movie, and they make you make a Spider man movie immediately. If you're a cool Belgium, you know, I mean, you know, Lanos I was just in his movie. It's like, there's pro.

[Neil Brennan]

You get to. If you're from Belgium, they make you. They let you make two more cool movies then you got to do. Then you get to go do m. Th.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lesser Thor or whatever, I guess that is Taika Waititi. New Zealand. And then. Yeah. And then.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Made Cool. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Although Ragnarok's awesome. The newer one sucked. Love and Thunder.

[Neil Brennan]

I think I saw Ragnarok.

[Stavros Halkias]

Ragnarok I thought was actually good.

[Neil Brennan]

I find this sort of like they improv that and it ends up being like three lines and you're like, okay. I also find it really disrespectful to screenwriters whenever they're like, you know, he improv that line. It's like there's a person who improv the whole script. The problem is he's ugly. But there's a guy somewhere at a.

[Stavros Halkias]

Coffee bean getting a much bigger laugh because he's a jacked beautiful man.

[Neil Brennan]

Because we expect him to just like grown beauty noises.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Neil Brennan]

And he. He was. He's cogent enough to like, have situational awareness. We're like, this guy's incredible.

[Stavros Halkias]

This is. He's hilarious. I will. I actually do have a. A like point about why Ragnarok was funny. And it is because the Thors were very self serious. They were like. They tried to make it sort of shape the two preceding Thors.

[Neil Brennan]

Okay.

[Stavros Halkias]

The original Thor movie and the. I don't remember what the other one, the second one was, but there were no jokes in it. It was very dour. They tried to. Because, you know, Marvel likes to do this thing where it's like blank for idiots. Right. Where it's like. Like they were claiming Captain America. It's a Cold War espionage thing. It's like. No, it's. Yeah, it's a. It's fucking Captain America. Right? The same way, like, I liked the Joker movie, the first one, because it was Taxi Driver plus the King of Comedy.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

For idiots. And I love those things. And I'm stupid, right? And so it was a good. I'll never see it again. But I had a good time at the movies.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And so they tried to do it as like a Shakespearean drama for idiots. And it was all like, you know, like, you know, they have Anthony Hopkins playing fucking Odin or whatever. And it's all like. They're all talking like this, you know, and it's supposed to be like that. And nobody gave a fuck about that because idiots don't like Shakespeare.

[Neil Brennan]

No.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, and so the third one, Taika Waititi, was like, why don't we use those two as the setup to a punchline and completely change the, the tone of this and make it this the least funny. Marvel shit that never went for that. He's right behind me, isn't he? Bullshit that they would always do. We never tried that. Why don't we actually make and take on YTD is funny? You know, what we do in the Shadows was really funny. Why don't we take that sensibility to Thor? And I think it worked. I also, I've talked about this a lot on the podcast. In a very dark period of my life, when I was housebound, would take mushrooms every, like three weeks and watch Thor Ragnarok.

[Neil Brennan]

How many mushrooms?

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, man. That was the time I, I didn't do the math right. And I thought I took an eighth and I took a quarter the first time.

[Neil Brennan]

That's 200. That's 2.5.

[Stavros Halkias]

That. An eighth is 3.5. So a quarter would be 7. 7 grams of mushrooms. And so. Oh, yeah, brother. I did not know where I was. I experienced like, I thought I was existing in a two dimensional plane for a while. I, I as like a little dot getting, like, eaten up by some monster.

[Neil Brennan]

Scared or were you, like, really scared?

[Stavros Halkias]

And it was exhilarating, though. It was really.

[Neil Brennan]

Did you have a feeling of exhilaration the whole time?

[Stavros Halkias]

It was, I'm not a roller coaster guy, but it felt like what I, you know, it's felt like a roller coaster. You're like, it's a thrill. But this, I, I would never willingly sign up for this. But I'm like, the fact that it was like, like, if you told me right now, take 7 grams of mushrooms, like, no, I'm not crazy, but, but it was an accident. And also it was the kind of thing where I kept getting so much higher. I was like, whoa, these are good mushrooms. And then I just got to the point where I was so high, I was like, something's really wrong. And it was only afterwards when I weighed the rest of it that I was like, holy fuck.

[Neil Brennan]

Did you, when you finally kind of came to, was there like a werewolf moment of, like, what have I done? Like, was there, like, you could see what you'd done?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, because I literally, I had torn the bottom of my foot. I had torn the plan.

[Neil Brennan]

I, I think I saw a video.

[Stavros Halkias]

About it or something very famously happened at the Skanks Fest basketball tournament at this point, probably like seven years ago. I Don't even remember when it was six years ago. It was a long time ago.

[Neil Brennan]

Which by the way, very competitive tournament.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, no, I've talked about it before. I couldn't hang with the athleticism of Ari Shaffir and Steve Rannazizi. That was, that pushed me to the brink. You know what it really was, I wanted to wear cool shoes. I was that, that probably looked cool. I wore these Ewings, those like fucking big blocky ass shoes and I hadn't really worked out or exercised in that long and it fucked up. And I went on a. I remember I walked from Carrot from Midtown over the. I mean it wasn't that long, but I walked from Midtown to Astoria like over the bridge.

[Neil Brennan]

But the bridge gives it a level of humiliation.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And cinema.

[Stavros Halkias]

The night before I was, I was walking, I was talking to a girl and I was like, wow, this is fucking New York. I'm, you know, me and this cool girl, I'm talking to this cool girl. I'm going to be in the Skanks Fest basketball tournament tomorrow. My career is going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

My Ewings that I. When the guy, when Ari sees him, it's going to be fucking lights out, bro. I'm going to come around the corner.

[Stavros Halkias]

And when Stephano's eyes are going to light up and I'm gonna earn his respect.

[Neil Brennan]

Fucking game over.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And so anyway, I was actually. It was this really insane thing where it was an out of body experience because I could not move. I was. I remember actually specifically the way I got around the apartment we lived. You lived there at the time, didn't you? Oh yeah, yeah.

[Eldis]

That was around the time I got fired from my job.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's right. So you were there a lot actually. Oh, that's when we started playing Mario tennis all day.

[Eldis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

It's a great game. It's awesome.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's fucking awes. And so he were gone. Everyone actually was gone. And I had set myself up where I was like, oh, I got my little snacks, I got a drink because I would take Eldis fucking office rolly chair and use it as a wheelchair essentially. And I was on the fucking couch. And actually we had a finicky audio AV system and sometimes the sound wouldn't work and I just couldn't. I was trapped where I was watching Thor Ragnarok no sound until I figured out I could plug in my headphones into the PlayStation controller. And so I was just like holding a PlayStation trailer with headphones in. No way to get up. And so I was trapped on this couch. So there was no werewolf moment. It all had to take place in my head. I couldn't move. And it actually gave it this really psych. It was even more psychedelic because it was not about my surroundings at all. I'm in a shitty IKEA couch in Queensland in the apartment I share with three other of my friends, the three bedroom I share with three other people. And it was just me versus my brain. Me and my brain versus mushrooms.

[Neil Brennan]

Are you a different person because of it?

[Stavros Halkias]

Not honestly, no. I had. There have been mushroom trips where I do think it changed the course of my life because it made me think about certain things and it made me came to like, decisions about, like, where I should live, honestly, who I should date, like, shit like that. But this one was just fucking awesome. It was just sick to be that high. Like, it really comes down.

[Neil Brennan]

I did a gram in February that busted my ass so bad. Where I was like, I'm not coming back.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, dude. Don't get me wrong, if I did that amount right now, I would be destroyed. Like.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think there's just too much going on in my head. Like, I've also had mushroom trips where I was just not in the right headspace. And it was atrocious. It was. It wasn't like, people talk about bad trips and it's not like I was hallucinating anything horrible. It was just that it brought out how bummed out I was. I was trying to.

[Neil Brennan]

Oh, yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I was trying to pretend I was having a good time. It's on vacation. It was a good time. I mean, but I was just. It was in the middle of a really stressful.

[Neil Brennan]

What would Bummed out. What would it. What would. What would it be like? What. What would it make you. I have. I wanted you to answer the question of what. What's a bummed out mushroom trip feel like? Or what does it make you realize? And then what did it tell you about who you should date?

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay. So the first. These are two different trips. The who I should date, I really. I was in a. I was in a park in Seattle. That was a. I was. I was having a great day. It was me and my. My best friend from college. Shout out to straight George. He's become a character in the. In the. In the Stavro. In the Stavu Baby cinematic universe. He came on tour with us. So the listeners are familiar. Me and straight George went on what we call the hero's journey.

[Neil Brennan]

Sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

Which is where you just leave your apartment completely unprepared. It's like, you're almost like, hey, should we go out, get a water bottle? Like, should we just go get some gum or something? And then you're like, somebody's like, hero's journey. And then you just have to go about the whole day with whatever's on you. And so I don't.

[Neil Brennan]

From the minute someone says hero's journey, you cannot grab.

[Stavros Halkias]

You just decide. It's not like there's no formalized way, but someone who's like, hero's journey. And if you're like. And we had just taken mushrooms, like, so it was kind of. I had just taken mushrooms. I don't think he was. I think George has been our chaperone on a lot of acid and mushroom trips, but I think he proposed the hero's Journey. And this was our first one ever in Seattle, years ago. And ever since then, I love going on a hero where you just, like, leave. I didn't have my phone. I literally left my phone in that apartment. So we're going off his phone, and I don't even think he had that much battery. And I'm on mushrooms. And we're just walking along Seattle. We just would hop. We hopped on random public transit wherever.

[Neil Brennan]

Were you doing standup at this point?

[Stavros Halkias]

I was. Yeah. I was doing shows and it was like, on an off day. He was working in Seattle.

[Neil Brennan]

Oh, got it, got it, got it.

[Stavros Halkias]

And so it was kind of this thing where I was crashing with him. I was working. Laughs in the university district of Seattle. And anyway, so we're just. It was a really fun day where it's like, I'm getting fucked up. And in Seattle's. You know, it's beautiful. It was like the summer. It's green, it's lush. We're riding bikes, we're doing. You know, we're just going all over, having a great time. And we went in this park, which I thought was like Central Park. I thought it was like, giant. I've since been back. It's literally maybe like four by five city blocks of Ravena park in Seattle. It's so small. Yeah, but in that park, I just fucking sat down by. In my head, a babbling brook with a huge tree and a huge wise tree was like, why don't you date the girl you've been seeing? Like, what are you doing? Like, you clearly really have feelings for her. You're scared of commitment. Like, it was just all my issues laid bare that I think probably were bouncing around my subconscious were manifested in like a. Like an end from fucking Lord of the Rings. Like, it appeared to me like. Like a talking tree. And it was just like, what are you doing, man? And straight. George. George was there, but I'm ignoring him and I'm like. And I'm not speaking verbally, but it felt in my head like I had a full conversation with a wise old tree. So that. And they told me, like, date the girl you've been seeing.

[Neil Brennan]

And then you dated her. And it was. It didn't work, but it was nice.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was nice. It was the closest I've ever had to like a real. I had just things up too much before for us to ever really get on a nice.

[Neil Brennan]

How. Walk me through. How's it. How's this Darby fuck up a relationship?

[Stavros Halkias]

Just. Just didn't, you know, we. You're seeing somebody casually, you don't. I didn't think she wanted to, like, be serious with me, so I just treated it as like, oh, we hook up every once in a while. And she was into me. And I don't know, I think it was probably the first time I was back. When you get to New York, I don't know if you had this experience when you first moved, but the first couple years are horrific. You're like, you go back, you go back, you sort of like, you know, regress in a lot of ways. Like. And I had no self confidence. You know, you get here, you're like. For me, anyway, I was like a big fish, small pond. Then you get here, not only do people not, like. Not only is it, like, not welcoming, but if you're actually good, the really good comics like you, everyone else hates you.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because they're like, yeah, another guy that's good at comedy moved. You know what I mean? And I think I was getting a little bit not to suck my own dick, but I do think I was getting some of that, you know, some of that treat treatment, at least. I'll tell you this much. Other fat guys whose shtick was having a little ass dick, they were not happy to see me move to New York. You know what I mean? That corner. Because that's a very heavily. It's like when there's. When, like, if a really funny, neurotic Jew moves here, it's like another.

[Neil Brennan]

Have you ever heard the thing that black dudes want to be the only black guy on a show?

[Stavros Halkias]

No.

[Neil Brennan]

Isn't that interesting? Like, I didn't know. And then I started hearing, and I.

[Stavros Halkias]

Was like, of course, dude. That. Of course they let a black guy in here. Opener crushes no matter what house money.

[Neil Brennan]

You're playing with house money if you're.

[Stavros Halkias]

The second black guy. So you're like, I wanted to do that. You can't be like, well, yeah, second black guy on the show. It doesn't have the same, doesn't have the same kick. And so I was just like, I had finally gotten out of that and I actually believed in myself again and like enough to just date. And I was like, great. And I don't know. And now in hindsight I'm like, that's when you should have been in a relationship, when you believed in yourself, when you could actually give yourself to it. But at the time, my thinking was like, well, I have to fuck whores in New York. I can't settle down with this girl who I really like, who clearly likes me, who were aligned on so many things. God forbid I do something good for me. I'm finally mentally stable enough to act out in other ways. You know, like I've. And so it was fucking stupid. And I, you know, so that's the.

[Neil Brennan]

So you find yourself. I'm not a self, I don't think I'm a self sabotage person within relationships.

[Stavros Halkias]

Interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

Which may tie into our bigger theme that we'll get to. But the. So that I'm. That's. That's interesting that the tree told you to like date a specific girl and that's.

[Stavros Halkias]

And maybe psychologically that's the thing where it's like, I'm a coward about making these decisions and I just manifested my own beliefs in a symbol of ancient wisdom.

[Neil Brennan]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, like, I don't want to take the risk. I'm like, well, if I'm. It's not me who's wrong, it's the tree who's wrong. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I think I never thought about it, but that's probably what happened here. Factories have their own rhythm. Machines hum data flows. But if your systems aren't fully integrated, everything slows down. That's where Verizon business steps in to help our agile connectivity solutions enable seamless interoperability, giving you real time visibility of your systems and data so you can make better decisions faster. That's the rhythm your facility needs to move your business forward. Learn [e-mail] manufacturing planning a trip this year?

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[Stavros Halkias]

But yeah, that's. That's really what it looked. It was. That's. That's really what it was. And then. Wait, what was like. What was like when you moved here because you.

[Neil Brennan]

I moved here for school.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, nyu.

[Neil Brennan]

Nyu, yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Eldis]

Film.

[Neil Brennan]

Film school.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And then what was the.

[Stavros Halkias]

The dream was just like, you wanted.

[Neil Brennan]

To be a director dream. Yeah, I wanted to be like a. Like a Spike Lee. It was like Spike Lee. When I heard, like, Spike Lee, Scorsese, what They all went to Oliver Stone. All went to, like one school. It's like, what? And then, like, going to it. And then I got in. I was like, this is fucking crazy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, that's so. Because I. I obviously wanted to go to NYU for the same kinds of reasons. And it actually pissed me off when I was listening to, I think, Donald Glover on Marin and he talked about, like, because I just wanted to go because it was cool in New York or whatever.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then he talked about there was a comedy writing program there. And when I was like, that existed. I was pissed to hear that even.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, the Harvard Lampoon was the big. Like when you're like, wait a minute.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's like, I never. I was. I'm never.

[Neil Brennan]

No, I was never gonna get in that either. But like, the existence of it, you're like, wait a minute. So they're incredibly rich, connected, and then they all. They all come together before.

[Stavros Halkias]

Don't get me.

[Neil Brennan]

Started before work, before they can start working.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything is set. It's like, even the Illuminati gets this. They even get this. It's like, I mean, I'm sure there.

[Neil Brennan]

And you know, it was started by William Randolph Hearst. The Harvey Lampone, of course, literally started by. By Citizen Kane.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's crazy.

[Neil Brennan]

The guy. This is based on start and it's like a mace. It's a Masonic building.

[Stavros Halkias]

And no one's. It's like. It was Conan in it.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, Conan was the Mike was the Brett. Like, I know guys that are like.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's probably. But the percentage of who's actually funny.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, actually like good funny dudes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, even Joe that got. He was basically from the Lampoon to.

[Neil Brennan]

The S. He went from Lampoon and they. He got a car straight to snl.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, it's like, even though he is funny, it's like, suck my dick getting to do that, you piece of. At least, you know, like Conan. I will just.

[Neil Brennan]

He was ugly back then, though. I will say that.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's fine. It's not even about.

[Ad Read Voice]

It.

[Stavros Halkias]

He didn't know, so that's a wash.

[Neil Brennan]

But it doesn't help that it was one point. Yeah, he was ugly, but.

[Stavros Halkias]

But anyway.

[Neil Brennan]

He didn't know how to groom himself. He had a giant disgusting beard interest.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, really?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

He, like, It's. He was 21 2, so he just looked awful.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah. He didn't lean into sort of like the. The like just looking like he was a Harvard pluck.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

He was trying to be kind of countercultural, but anyway. But so, yeah, it just never. I just also. And also it pissed me off because I was already in school when I listened to that, I think, and I was like, wait, Donald Glover's not? Because I always thought you had to be rich and connected to do that shit. And then Donald Glover was just like, not. He was just a fucking. I was like, fuck, I could have tried. I don't know if I would have gotten in, but I could have tried to do that. But there was no part of you that was like. Cause that shit was probably expensive. And you. You had a very Irish.

[Neil Brennan]

I had to pay. I think I paid 24.

[Stavros Halkias]

You have 400 siblings.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm one of 400. I'm the youngest of 10. So, yeah, so they. But my dad, it. My dad was a lawyer, which. So he was like. Not like. But if you have 10 kids. Yeah, it doesn't help.

[Stavros Halkias]

Lawyer with 10 kids.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Fucking guy who works at a business.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, like, you.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You've taken yourself out.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like he fucked himself.

[Neil Brennan]

So, like. So. But eventually they. They were able to get rid of some. They would like, just shed Kit. Like, we would move. They were so far. I swear to God, we moved. And shed, Joey, Sheila, they would move and then they.

[Stavros Halkias]

They'd buy houses.

[Neil Brennan]

They'D send a message.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, look, we. We divvied them up. You weren't around. They. We moved from Philly to Chicago and Joey, Sheila, and Kevin stayed in Philly and we went to Chicago and they were like, set. Kevin was 17 or 18. Like, it was just the 70s. And 8. Like, they. There was no. And then we moved from.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's the oldest. Or the.

[Neil Brennan]

No, he's toward the.

[Stavros Halkias]

So. But he. That's the cut off. Is 17. They're like, good enough for us. You're an adult.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wow.

[Neil Brennan]

They would give you. They. I remember them giving my brother and sisters, like, a calling card. Like an AT and T. Like, if you need to call me. Yeah, here's. You get.

[Stavros Halkias]

We'll save you the quarter.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, I.

[Stavros Halkias]

We'll save you the quarter.

[Neil Brennan]

Crazy. We'll do insanity. So the. The fact that I got in and then they were like, support. And like, they. I only went for a year.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Neil Brennan]

Because I was going to school and, like, working the door at the Boston Comedy Club. And like, Louis, I worked on Louie's short film when I was in college. I'm in his first film.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wow. Wait, which one? The. What's it called?

[Neil Brennan]

The one. Caesar salad, I believe I'm pumpkin. I'm crazy Pumpkin.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, hilarious.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. And I stabbed Nick depolo in the foot.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

But like, Louie, Mary Aaron, Sarah Attel, Chappelle Johnson, like, yes, Regular. Like, they were around. So I was like, I think these guys are better than film students.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think. Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather be around these people.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. So I just started working.

[Stavros Halkias]

Dropped out.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And you were just like, I'm gonna live here.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. I'm just gonna.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then your parents were like, nice. The last one can figure it out.

[Neil Brennan]

They didn't really pressure. They were like, all right. Figure it out. Like, they were.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, being the youngest of 10.

[Neil Brennan]

I think at a certain point, I.

[Stavros Halkias]

Can'T imagine how much they didn't give a fuck. By the time you were around.

[Neil Brennan]

There wasn't a ton of oversight.

[Stavros Halkias]

Crazy. Youngest of 10?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. No, when I hear it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because when you hear about the youngest of three, it's like, yeah, they barely cared about me. But 10.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, it was real. It was.

[Stavros Halkias]

How much older is your older sibling?

[Neil Brennan]

16 years older than me.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

So.

[Stavros Halkias]

And that's not even that crazy. That's as close as it possibly.

[Neil Brennan]

10 kids. 16 years. She was in. She was in labor with me. Not kidding. 45 minutes. It sounds like a joke, but apparently she said, like, this is coming out quick.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. You fogging crawled out.

[Neil Brennan]

It wasn't even. Yeah. The. So. So yes. I Then I just. Then I was like in comedy. But you're right about like feeling you. It's. You're such a fucking loser. That's what I tell anyone.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally.

[Neil Brennan]

In terms of like, what do you want to do? Are you prepared to be a loser?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

For five, ten years.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I'm happy that it was on. Like the really, really depressing period was only like three years. Really? Yeah, but I mean the first two were fucking atrocious. But also for you, that's kind of nice. You're young. That's the time you got to be a 18.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

But I didn't. I wasn't really being a piece of. Because I didn't have any means to be a piece of shit. Like I know money. I know. I know where I know gain any.

[Stavros Halkias]

Of course. So you're. That first year. You're probably living in dorms. What was the living situation once you drop out and you're like, I'm gonna pursue.

[Neil Brennan]

I was. I was subletting the guy, Jay Moore, his apartment. Tony woods was my roommate at one point.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, I love Tony woods, dude, come on. Tony was my room opening for Tony woods. And he did not care for me.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, I don't. I'm not sure he cares for me anymore either. But yeah, Tony was my roommate. And then. And then me and Jay lived together for a while and then I. Then I moved to LA and that's all. But like. But it was. There was no. Just you look back and you're like, no, you're just lost. You have no. Especially then there was no. Like there was. You could make it. You like get on Comedy Central, of course, like host short attention span theater or something. But yeah, there was no. And I also didn't know what I was gonna do. I was like gonna be a writer vaguely. And then I started writing for like when I got to la, I started writing for shit. I would give people tags here. And then I moved to la and.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, that's sort of like the. You sort of like a freelance intern is being around being like, tags, tags. Think of me if you have a fucking writing job or something like that.

[Neil Brennan]

And then you. But it's not a bad. Like Ed Solomon, who wrote Bill and Ted's did that at the Comedy Store. There's a few guys that did that at the Comedy Store. Like, oh yeah, in la, totally. And then got. You could sort of Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think some of the best advice is just like, legitimately, I mean, it sucks, but it's like work, basically, work for free. Show your value to people. Because I definitely did that thing too where it was like, I would. Whoever I was opening for, I mean, not. They really gave a. They had their own going. But I was like, I would work hard, I would watch and I would like, try and get. I would try and like be like, oh, here's what I think about this. Yeah, here's some tag, here's some ideas there. That kind of thing.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Just be, be of some value.

[Stavros Halkias]

Be value.

[Neil Brennan]

Value. If it's not, it's not going to serve you like now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And people don't really like it when you give them tags.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, no, but like, that's a very high risk. Yeah, it can be kind of high risk. Like, fuck you.

[Neil Brennan]

If they're good. Like, then they're like. Then it's a different kind of resentment.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally, totally, totally, totally.

[Neil Brennan]

So, yeah. So I had no. But looking back at, like, I, I, I didn't have any relationships to up.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, you're just a free age. Was that. Do you think there is something psychologically there about the. No oversight of being like the youngest of 10? Because it's like, what does that even do to your. Do you even form attachments? I feel like you were probably raised by committee almost where it was like, you probably didn't get that much facetime with your parents. There's probably an older.

[Neil Brennan]

But my brothers ended up being like pseudo fathers, which is great. Like Kevin, like. So I'd come to comic shows in New York in high school.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay. Okay.

[Neil Brennan]

And then I had a brother who in Chicago who worked like at Wrigley Field and the Chicago Stadium. So I would go to Bulls and Cubs games. Like, so that shit was fucking awesome.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

But into. I think it, you know, I think it made it like you can do shit you, like, can be. There's like, you go to a comedy club and it's just like. Yeah. There's just a staff and like, it's pretty open. If you just apply kind of.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

It wasn't that impossible.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. That's interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

But then the next level was impossible. Like movies or like TV shows people used to wear. In la, people would wear production jackets.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

From the TV show they were on.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think they still do that.

[Neil Brennan]

Not as much.

[Ad Read Voice]

Dude.

[Neil Brennan]

They used to do it like street gangs. Yeah. Like the fuck. If you saw a guy in a mad about you jacket.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, fuck yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, Chris Rock had a Beverly Hills Cop 2 jacket. And I still won't. I. I couldn't believe.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

I like, how did you get near.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Beverly Hills Cop.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

How did that fucking happen? Like, how. Yeah, that shit was impossible.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Eldis]

So.

[Neil Brennan]

So it was like a completely different landscape. It was back when there was like actual showbiz instead of now when it's all disintegrating in front of us.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. I mean, I wonder if stand up also was just like such a. I don't know, because I. A lot of did feel impossible to me. Like almost everything felt impossible. And the only thing that didn't, I guess, was stand up, but like local stand up. I don't know. I really put that on a pedestal in a way that, I don't know, I was just very nervous about for years. And then it just. You realize, like, oh, this is the lowest form of show business.

[Ad Read Voice]

Right.

[Neil Brennan]

But I, I think that's all different now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

I think that every other form of show business is like lowered itself, is. It's over.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

It's like actors now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. They have podcasts.

[Neil Brennan]

That's ideally.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's sad.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm almost like, you're too good for this.

[Neil Brennan]

They're not.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

They'Re not. A lot of them are going to not be good enough. You're right.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're right. That's true. That's actually a funny point.

[Neil Brennan]

They're not like, when you see acne, like, so what are you going to do? Why are we talking to you?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Do you have any points to be like? No, I have two funny anecdotes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Okay. It's the fucking Hemsworth thing again, where you're like. If you're not good looking, of course none of this is happening.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

No, I wouldn't. So now that we have points of that right now that the only man.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like forced to develop a point of view because you're up looking and you have different psychological issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Wonderful medley, of course, problems. And then you. And, and. And now they. People realize that that's valuable.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And they. But I always thought it was valuable. I literally always thought I even during like doing TV shows, I was like stand up schooler than this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

I always thought that.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. I mean, I certainly have. I, I like it more. I actually that's something I learned is that I just love stand up because, like, acting and shit is cool. But it's like, it's really close to feeling like a real job and I don't like that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't like that there is a really strict schedule. You do. On some level. I like feeling like you're part of a team. That's kind of cool. Yeah, that's nice. But this really is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, I'm kidding. But also like income, friendship. Yeah, it's like pretty good.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's pretty sick. Yeah. It is hilarious how it's become the only but you.

[Neil Brennan]

But I. When I. When we first spoke, you were like a year ago, it seemed like you were more interested in it.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm more. I honestly am more interested in acting creatively only because it's new to me. Right. Like that's what it is. It's that it's like I love standup and there's definitely more for me to do. I don't think I've made a great special. I think that's really. But if I make a special that I feel is the best I can do, even if it's not received as like an all time great. If I feel like I maxed my potential out, then I'm kind of like, what else do I need to do for standup? And then I. And what I'm realizing is nothing and it is the enjoyment of it that matters. And I like the day to day lifestyle, but from a, like the joy I felt getting good at comedy. Because there's something about. And this is advice we give to callers all the time where it's like, pick something and get better at it.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And you'll feel good about yourself no matter what it is. Like that could be working out, that could be trying to lose weight, that could be writing, drawing, even your job really. But like if you're somebody who struggles with self esteem, there's something, there's just something so rewarding about just getting good at something. And I think I'm not good at acting and I want to get good at it. And it's like figuring that out is really interesting. And then movies I love. You know, when you're a kid, the first, your first like the first thing you fall in love with entertainment wise is movies. Whether you like, like I liked movies that I branched off into stand up. I found what I really. And then I found, you know, comedy, you know, the Simpsons and like other shit that's related. Saturday Night Live, all this other shit. But the first thing you watch is fucking a Disney movie or like some classic and you're like, this is sick. And there is. And I think also that the la. I don't like how disposable everything is, and I don't like that, you know, people come up to you and they'll say, I love your content. And I like, I like. I know what they're saying. That's nice.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I hate that content is the. That's the word for your stuff or your art or your.

[Neil Brennan]

Do you like the term creator? I'm a creator or I'm a creative. I don't. I personally don't.

[Stavros Halkias]

Those both are bad. Those are both.

[Neil Brennan]

I agree.

[Stavros Halkias]

Creator is just creative for. Creator is millennial creative. Creative is like Gen X. He's a creative, you know, and it's like a guy who works in advertising or whatever. But I think in a world where things are disposable and I think that's affected my output too. I mean, I think first of all, what's rewarded is. Is constant churn and being disposable.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I'm struggling with that a little bit because I think I. I don't know, I'm trying to figure out a way to do that that is artistically fulfilling, that's not just sort of the same beats over and over again. But I think movies are the last thing. Even though the. What? It's kind of dwindling in popularity.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, it's.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's the last thing that you actually have to watch how it's intended. And like on a road. Yeah, right, right, right. On a phone, on the train while you're shooting. And then maybe you move it to the iPad if you really like it. At least a segment of the people who watch it watch it how it's supposed to. Right. And it's still the last.

[Neil Brennan]

Every year.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's less every year. But there's still. There are some critics who engage with it critically. And I do think movies are becoming. There's. It's sort of becoming like. Like young kids are into movies in.

[Neil Brennan]

The way that I think they're like art installations now.

[Stavros Halkias]

I know the way people were into vinyl or something, and that sucks for the general culture, but I think I'm okay with that. And even if it's a small community, it's like it still is the one medium that people will interact with and judge in the way that you want it to be seen. Not necessarily. Even though some people are watching it in chopped up verticals on their phone. And so anyway, long.

[Neil Brennan]

This is a long answer. Argument or a conversation. Sorry, sorry, long answer.

[Stavros Halkias]

But the long answer is that that's what interests me about movies too is like, it feels like the last type of entertainment that people are willing to contend with. The way the artist wants you to look at it. Right. And then. And then also I'm not good at it. I don't know how I'm. What I'm doing. And so it is fun to get better at something. And it's also. The final thing is I love comedy so much that getting a laugh in every different medium is interesting to me. And so figuring out being a funny actor is a lot different than being a funny stand up, being a funny movie filmmakers, a lot different than being a funny actor. And so that's kind of why that.

[Neil Brennan]

So you see him as like the rings in Avengers. Like you. You're gonna get laughs in every different.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly, exactly. It's like it's at least. And again, maybe I never achieve that, but it's like it's the, you know, the corny, the. The Odyssey is the, you know, the journey is what it's all about. It at least gives my life some purposes to be like, this is what I want to chase, you know, creatively. And then obviously there's purpose to be found in your personal life, which I'm way.

[Neil Brennan]

This is kind of similar to what I'm saying about cbgb.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay, let's get back to it.

[Neil Brennan]

In that the. The reason you love. You said when you're a kid and you see a movie and then you go, I want to do movies.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

It's a bit of like a fetish in that. Like, I saw my mom's friend's feet.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Now I jerk off to feet.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Cause that's what I saw.

[Stavros Halkias]

Just the right day.

[Neil Brennan]

And. Yeah. And it similarly. When there was a thing 20 years ago when people go, no one wants to be famous from YouTube that was like literally like, trust me, no one wants to be famous. And now it's just generationally like, they absolutely want to be famous.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Now not only do they want to, but now that's old. And they want to be.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, they want to. Yeah, exactly.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So.

[Neil Brennan]

And then there'll be a new thing and a widescreen film. Okay. We're gonna go all the way back. Silent films.

[Stavros Halkias]

I do actually think we are going, we are regressing and that this is closer to vaudeville. That. What that, that tick tock and stuff is vaudeville because it's the simplest and everyone's plagiarizing off each other and it's like, you know, people are making. Getting huge views off the dumbest yeah. Most simple jokes that. It's kind of like, whoa, that guy did a backflip. You know what I mean? It's like we've kind of regressed to.

[Neil Brennan]

The point where the fact that that dude does backflips is so funny to me because it's so like. Like, literally, it's like if you could throw down smoke and disappear, like. Like. Like the. Like the. Like the Batman. Like the Riddler.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, but that's a great. Yeah, he is like a. Yeah. That guy Speed is just like. It's so funny that he's just entertaining in such a, you know, sort of, like, base way. And also, it's not just him. It's like. It's like entertainment has regressed to the point where it's like, is this cool? Will this hold your attention? And that's what. That's where it all started.

[Neil Brennan]

Have you ever seen that guy Outfits? He just tries on outfits.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, but that's. Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Neil Brennan]

My man Fits. You gotta get him. You gotta follow him. On Twitch. On Twitch.

[Stavros Halkias]

Check out Fits.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, so what I'm saying is you're fetishizing film because of your age. And when you. So I. Meaning because I don't. I kind of. And it's similar to cbgb. Like, do we need to protect cbgb? Do we need to protect cinema? Because I stand up's amazing. But I also think, like, Grand Theft Auto is better than anything I've ever experienced as an entertainment product. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, so I can't.

[Stavros Halkias]

But that's not. They're not in the same, you know, category, and they don't stimulate you the same way. You know what I'm saying? Like, do we need to get rid of books?

[Neil Brennan]

No, no, I'm not saying we get rid of them. I'm just saying this idea of, like, that is the highest form. The idea of this hierarchy of form, to me is a bit, like, random. And. And even film is, like, a thing. When you compare it to video game money, it's like. Like, GTA is the most successful franchise of anything of all time.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good point. I mean, I'm sure there are people who look at film and even look at. Who look at that as very low. Who look at film as, like, a moron's art form.

[Neil Brennan]

Right. Yeah. Like, I don't decide where he goes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, no, I meant, like, I don't.

[Neil Brennan]

Die with Michael Corleone.

[Stavros Halkias]

I didn't even mean kids now. I meant, like, probably in like when film became the dominant. When it became authors were like funny playwright, right? Yeah, right. It's like. I'm sure. Philosopher. Like, I'm sure there was a lot of theory and philosophy.

[Neil Brennan]

We're too dumb to even know who it was.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, exactly. Probably. I don't know, Plato and Adorno. What the. Were those guys names? Elvis Marshall McLuhan.

[Ad Read Voice]

Those.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. You're pro. Listen, you are right. You're right in that this shit is fluid and it keeps changing. But all I can do is like this is.

[Ad Read Voice]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

You have to listen to who you are. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's also like I've streamed. I don't think it's interesting to be a good streamer.

[Neil Brennan]

I think that's what I was also gonna say. What does it mean to be a good comedian? Like in it. Doing it. Like what. What. What are you. What do you. What service. What. What service are you providing or whatever.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Versus directing a movie. You've been around enough movies. Like, I. I've directed movies. I've been directed a bunch of shit. And it's like, what is. What am I doing? The thing you have to do is a lot of logistics for sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

A lot of.

[Neil Brennan]

And it's a weird talent cluster to like. I'm good at logistics and getting DiCaprio to make a noise when he comes through the door and I gotta get the light. It's just like a weird.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well. But here's the thing that does similar to Stand up. Something that attracts me, like directing in particular, is that there is actually no exact way to do it right. Stand up. You can go to. You can take a class, I guess, but you have to figure out what works for you. Everyone has their own talents. Directing is a similar thing. You can read books about it, you can go to fucking film school. But there are directors who are incredible at getting emotional performances out of their actors. There's directors who are. Who are great at the logistics and they're essentially like the most talented producer and they get everything working at the right time. There's also. You know, I've even now I've only worked a few directors. The personality types are so different. Some people have incredible taste. Right. And they don't. You feel like they're not doing much.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

But they put the whole fucking thing. I don't need to do it because I picked the right, exact right people for every role. And this is going to be awesome. Some people do their. Some people. You know, the Coen brothers are famous for like they storyboard every frame there is. You want to talk about how it's disrespectful to ad lib. There's maybe two ad libbed lines in all of their history of their movies. And then there's people who are like, the magic happens on the day, baby. Like, you know, and so something that's interesting to me is that there is no. There is no, like, roadmap to that. And it's like you decide. You become who you are. And that's cool to me too.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, I totally agree. And. But if people don't want to watch it, I also completely understand.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, yeah, no, I don't have.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, if, like, if. If they're interested, it's diminishing. Other than like K Pop Demon Hunter.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's not my. I agree with you. I'm not really a. I'm not talking about this from like a media. I'm not a fucking media scholar. Right. It's not. I'm not trying to decide. I'm not trying to preserve art forms for the good of society. I'm not trying to do any of this shit. I'm wrecking. I'm even saying, I'm recognizing movies are diminishing, and I don't think they're coming back in the way they ever were. Right. Because how can they really come back? The reason they were so fucking, they were so popular. Like, there was no tv. People would go to the. The way we just throw on Law and Order, watch it four times. You would walk to your movie. There's a movie here on every corner. You would pay 14 cents.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And you would watch three sick movies. And by the way, some of them were trashy. So the. The more stuff got made because there was just a market for it. Right. That's never coming back.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I'm admitting it's. I even started this by saying it's become like vinyl was when I was a teenager. There was some weird kid who would go to a vinyl store. Like, you see it now. Film, Twitter, letterboxd people. It's like there's a small community. And what I'm saying is I'm okay. I am a man of my time. My life is ending relatively soon.

[Neil Brennan]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm midway into my life. Right. And what will make me, what I'm interested in, what I know will fulfill me, is like, I'm just gonna. I like that this corner exists where the thing that was important to me still matters. And this is what will drive me artistically. There's at least There's a smaller pool for it, but there's still a pool for it. And then I'll even say from the sociopaths part of your brain that everybody who wants to be successful in entertainment or politics or whatever has. Which I'm actively trying to fight. There's a little party that's also, like, at the end of the day, even though there's fewer of them, a movie star, even in our current society is still, I think, the highest form of fame.

[Neil Brennan]

I agree. But it's really interesting to watch them get reduced. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, it's polar bears fighting for this much fucking ice. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's not that polar.

[Neil Brennan]

Bears, like, where DiCaprio was doing podcasts and people were like an rip.

[Stavros Halkias]

That actually broke my heart.

[Neil Brennan]

To see it. Come on.

[Stavros Halkias]

No.

[Neil Brennan]

We love the Kelvin. We love.

[Stavros Halkias]

I know. Sorry. You got. You know what? You know, I'm sure you directed them at a Lowe's ad or something, but thank you. Literally two years in a row, guys.

[Neil Brennan]

Two years in a row. And I directed Jason in a charcoal commercial in Philly. Great, guys. No, but. But don't blame him. Blame DiCaprio for the. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Broke my heart.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

But that movie's incredible.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Totally agree.

[Stavros Halkias]

So.

[Neil Brennan]

But it is funny to watch it get. It's the polar bears on ice, where it's. It's terrifying.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And. But I. But as being in comedy, our. Yeah. I don't want to say our ice is getting bigger. It seems like it.

[Stavros Halkias]

I would say, actually the pole. We stumbled into this metaphor. I think a perfect metaphor, because it doesn't mean that the polar bears are still cool. They're just dying. And the coolest thing could be is a polar bear. They'll kill anything, whatever.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

But we're in a world where now it's like, streamers are like.

[Neil Brennan]

We're in a world of climate change.

[Stavros Halkias]

Little sea mollusks or something, you know? Like, I guess what bothers me about it. And I said, I'm not. Like, we've basically done media criticism this whole podcast. I know.

[Neil Brennan]

I've never. I don't know if this is going to be a very. A lucrative episode. 50 a year.

[Stavros Halkias]

This might come out in January for Christ.

[Neil Brennan]

Thank you.

[Stavros Halkias]

This is. This is in the vault, folks. See, we don't know. You could hear this in November. You could hear this March 15th, for all I know.

[Neil Brennan]

2027. This is.

[Stavros Halkias]

This actually per. This is good because you're. You're. You're the person who most encouraged me to just be like, dude, who gives a. Put it in the vault. And our conversation is evergreen because no one will care about it no matter when it comes.

[Neil Brennan]

I think the word you're looking for is never green.

[Eldis]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm having a good time, but we literally could just not have the microphones right now. Anyway, whatever it does. All I was gonna make was. I was gonna say was something about streaming is just like. What it rewards is that constant churn. It's literally like we would rather watch a live feed of Guys.

[Neil Brennan]

I know. I. I know. So weird.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I.

[Neil Brennan]

But I. Can we talk about incels?

[Stavros Halkias]

We can absolutely.

[Neil Brennan]

Because I. I sent you a link.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

To a subreddit, I think it's called. It's that bad. And it's basically. I should know. I'm the moderator.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, we. Yeah, yeah. Well, we have also on come time, we did an episode about the. Our small penis problems. One. One episode. And that's a. That's a real tough one. But anyway, go ahead. It's that bad. Is a. It's that bad.

[Neil Brennan]

It's just basically just like guy. It's like whatever. It's. I don't. I don't know what pill it is. I don't know what. I don't know. Yeah, but like red. Yeah, but it was basically the guy was espousing that incels are sort of wasting their time in some ways, like deifying women as this. Something to aspire to as like the highest male aspiration is to be a good man for a woman.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And I sent it to you because you were talking about giving incels hope.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think it's very important.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, but I'm. I'm trying to give them hope in a different way.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Which is like. It's not. It's a.

[Stavros Halkias]

You want them to sign up for AI girlfriends, you want them to get fuck robots, and you want them to completely give away their humanity instead of. Instead of doing some lat pull down. No, no, but learning how to be polite to a woman.

[Neil Brennan]

If you. You want to do lap pull downs and be polite for a woman, do that. But what I'm saying is what's the. What is the aspiration about? Like, what's the. Why do you think that men are automatically better if they aspire to female companionship?

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, it's like saying. It's like saying, do you aspire to eat food or see the sun? I think a part of humanity is like. Like, basically you're saying like both things.

[Neil Brennan]

That I clearly don't care a lot about.

[Stavros Halkias]

I know you would fucking probably drink Soylent for every meal.

[Neil Brennan]

Give me a better example.

[Stavros Halkias]

Maybe that actually does explain this because I am a. I am a man who likes to enjoy worldly things. You know, clearly my issue is gluttony and having too good a time. Whatever I think there is, your basic humanity is in, you know, looking for love, companionship, these sorts of things. In the same way that there is something, there is something kind of like human and not noble. But what you're meant to do is, is look for these things. Like look for the right person, have a, have a romantic relationship in the same way that like going outside and looking at a be. Don't stay under fluorescent light, go outside. There's a beauty in. There's a natural human beauty in like touching grass, to put it in Internet terms. And even the food thing, it's like, yeah, it's this equivalent of like, could you survive off of Soylent?

[Neil Brennan]

And something kind of went left.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, you're right.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm a heel guy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Soylent's palm pyro. I like Huel too. You know, after a workout sometimes it's nice, it has everything you need. But it's like, like that's what I'm saying is that to be human are these things that you don't technically need. Yeah, right. And that like I also think America, I mean this is all. Now we're really getting, but no one cares about, but like this is bred because of American capitalism and the way our society is put together, where we've lost community, we've lost touch with our fellow man. And they are pushing, we incels are kind of getting pushed to sort of like you have less money, you feel like a loser because you don't. There's no fucking good jobs, you know. And then, and then it's like everything is haves and have nots to the point where it's, it's even gone to basic humanity of dating. And if you're a fucking ugly loser with no money, it's like, yeah, it is fucking harder to get pussy. I'm saying that as a former insult. That's why, that's why I'm an expert here is I spent my teen years like this, right? Me and elders, that's why we speak on such authority. And I think like.

[Neil Brennan]

But what I'm saying is what have been the most valuable moments of your life? And I don't mean like name them and I just mean like, were they. Cause you know, the history of romance and all that, it's like a new Thing. It's a new thing. It was mostly just like, property and farms and dowries and like. And like, just having a. Like, women were sort of like chattel. So this idea of, like, romance is new. So I'm wondering, but how.

[Stavros Halkias]

What was the quality of life like when people lived like that?

[Neil Brennan]

Awful.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's what we're talking about.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, but the quality of life was awful because there was no running water. There's no, like. I mean, there was just like. It was a very shitty quality of.

[Stavros Halkias]

Life because of general inequality. I think I would say the quality of life was that bad because, you know who had that was aristocracy. Like, they got the people that got to have concubines. Like. Like, the thing rich people have had forever and have hoarded is the thing everybody deserves. So at the time, we're talking about serfs who had to marry their daughter off for fucking cows or whatever. It's like at.

[Neil Brennan]

But also, like. But the aristocrats were doing the same thing for. With like, just a bigger payoff.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. But they got to experience companionship and like, yes, of course there was political marriage and there was all this stuff, but they got mistresses. They got to have, like, you know, human.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm not. But I'm. I don't think you're talking about, like, pussy, for lack of a better.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, I'm not. You're.

[Neil Brennan]

And. Or like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Or like, part of it.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, there was basically, like, the reason there's monogamy now and. And. And is like, so that everyone can get. It's not just all going to the top.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally.

[Neil Brennan]

1%.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally. I. I do love that. Like, I do love when women will flip that on guys and like, you know what? Let's have. Let's have multiple marriages. It's like, you think you're getting multiple wives.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Everyone in the nb, Our pal Blake Griffin.

[Neil Brennan]

Correct.

[Stavros Halkias]

He gets as many wives as he wants.

[Neil Brennan]

Absolutely.

[Stavros Halkias]

Podcast producers, no disrespect. Actually, others can buy pulls. You know what?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

On this. On this salary, on his w. He's making a WNBA max right now. He.

[Neil Brennan]

He's got fucking pretty. He's got next level. Frames are nice. You got nice frames.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's tall. He's kept his head of hair. He'll be.

[Neil Brennan]

He.

[Stavros Halkias]

Could you get to.

[Neil Brennan]

You did. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. But anyway.

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[Neil Brennan]

At Maurices, we're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right.

[Stavros Halkias]

The ones that simply make you feel good.

[Neil Brennan]

Because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Find great jeans starting at 29.90 in stores and@marisa's.com.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, I'm not talking about just pussy. I'm talking about. I really am talking about. Let's define what it means to be a fucking human being. And I think like, for example, if somebody came to me when I was getting. When I was like, when I would have sawed my fucking left leg off to get pussy at 19 or whatever and was like, hey, we'll get you a fucking robot girlfriend. You know what I mean? Like, don't even worry about this. Like, you can focus on whatever, but it's like, but that's the thing. If somebody did that to me. Because the other thing is what was a driving force in me getting good at comedy and me getting confidence.

[Neil Brennan]

I like that you're whispering.

[Stavros Halkias]

What was. Let's lean in.

[Neil Brennan]

Am I even in frame anymore? Am I in your frame?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, get in here, dude. It was trying to get there. There is a. That's also a basic human sort of like motivating.

[Neil Brennan]

It's a huge drive. What I'm.

[Stavros Halkias]

Why do you want to release that?

[Neil Brennan]

I don't want. What I'm saying is, yes, the drive's not going away. Right. If you can make peace with masturbating and not seeing it as a failure, sure. Right. Like, okay, it's just like, just something that you're doing. Like eating by yourself or eating.

[Stavros Halkias]

Having Lean Cuisine, having a microwave.

[Neil Brennan]

Have to be like, lesser. It can just be like high end uber eats.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay, maybe. No, it is lesser than. But Go ahead.

[Neil Brennan]

I.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's necessary, but less. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

There are certain dinners that are. It's there. I would mostly like to eat with people.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

The issue is. Yeah, it takes too long. The metaphor still works.

[Stavros Halkias]

True. It does. It does.

[Neil Brennan]

It takes too long.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And there's too much social and too much texting ahead of time afterward and whatever. So what I'm saying is if you can make masturbation more of a. Not even like post not clarity of just like not making your horniness your God. Because I think we take the horniness and then build this romance infrastructure around it when it may not. I think there are guys that don't want families.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure.

[Neil Brennan]

I think there are guys that don't want that. They may want the day to day of having a girlfriend. They may not want it. Like, I think we're starting from. From horniness. Right. And then we're. We're building all this stuff around it. So what I'm saying. I'm not saying like therefore robots. I'm just saying I. I don't like the idea that guys are. I never liked the thing of like you complete me as a romance. As a line of dialogue.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, okay.

[Neil Brennan]

Like as like without my better half. Any of that shit. I resent it. And I think like if you gave your incels more it's like, it's fine. It's just a thing you can do. And I know the most rewarding parts of my life, some were with. In. Were romantically connected and some were not. Like a lot of them were not if I'm honest.

[Stavros Halkias]

But that is the you're saying.

[Neil Brennan]

And I feel bad saying that. Do you know what I mean?

[Stavros Halkias]

But I don't think you should feel bad. But all I'm saying is I don't think it should be your end all be all by no stretch of the imagination. In fact, I think what you just said is. I think you. We don't even have time to get into it. But like for another, if you cut.

[Neil Brennan]

Out the hour and 10 minutes of media criticism.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, that's staying baby. The thing about podcasting is you don't ever cut anything down.

[Neil Brennan]

No, you can't. It's malpractice.

[Stavros Halkias]

Look, is there an argument to be made? Like I think that everything is a. There is a sort of ratio that works well for people. Yeah, I would say probably we kind of touched on it a little bit. Your chaotic family environment, like maybe that kind of intimacy. Because to you and I have this problem with like romantic relationships. Like I didn't know anybody who had a good marriage. So it took me a while to even realize. Oh. What people think about when they want a marriage is some. The person they love the most in the world being around forever. Not. Not someone they liked for an ongoing.

[Neil Brennan]

Not A Hatfields and McCoys.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes. Not two people that absolutely despise each.

[Neil Brennan]

Other in their marrow. And it's an ongoing war. That.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's not what they're dreaming of. Right.

[Neil Brennan]

Dying for the next battle.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right. So I think that you know that.

[Neil Brennan]

But I think that's. How many. What percentage of people do you think should be married?

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't fucking, you know, I. I don't know.

[Neil Brennan]

10%?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, I think it's. I think it's actually a lot more than that. Okay. I think actually like this is a. I think there's.

[Neil Brennan]

I think the thing that you explained, like the. The pitch battle thing. I think that's the norm more than the exception. I think like I grew up chaotic. You wrote. I think that's more. That's. I think that's the norm. I really do. I think that's the lion's share relationships and it is. So what people are looking for, I think is like, should this even be happening other than like the chaotic way.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because.

[Neil Brennan]

Future of humanity.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Well, I. I guess the. That's. I'm with.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm on Peter. I'm with Peter Thiel on this. I'm not sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right. But that's what I see what you're saying almost that there's a chaos to we romance and whatever is a relatively new way to run a society. That it's way more orderly to look at it as a business transaction. If you find some romance in the. In the.

[Neil Brennan]

You know, or arrange marriages with very low expectations.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right. That actually that is better in terms of running a society. And I would say you're not wrong because that. You made a very good point. A lot of people who lead with romance when they're young and stupid end up in these fucked up. Now, should you have had. Had 10 kids with those people? That's. Maybe that's. Maybe we could keep that to, you know, three. You know. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

My mom loves the podcast.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's a big Stobby's World fan. But I would say that yes. Just because it's orderly or whatever. It's like I go back to this. What does it mean to be human? What does it mean to feel and to there. You know, you have to take that chance on being fulfilled by. With somebody and the Fact that, you know, you might skew lower and 30% of your stuff has been in romantic whatever and 70 has been. But. But you, you know what would happen? You, I think your existence would be a lot worse if you take that 30 away. Like my, my counter would be for. What are we. Why is this more efficient? Who cares? So you can be better at your job. So you can be better at creating money. Who fucking cares? That's not what's important. It's like, it's like the Kurt Vonnegut thing where he's like, he needs the short story about like buying an envelope. Do you know that one? Where he's like, I have to go buy an envelope and I tell my wife, I gotta go to the envelope. She's like, why do you go to the store every time? Yeah, buy fucking 100 on Amazon or whatever. I don't know if it was Amazon at the time, but buy 100. Every time you need an envelope, you have an envelope. And he's like, because I get up, I go outside, the fucking birds are chirping. I see a fucking weird guy at the bus stop. I'm like, nice pants.

[Neil Brennan]

You know, I do some crowd work. Where the fuck are you from?

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally, totally. I buy a fucking candy bar. Oh, that's fun. I had a little treat, like. And he's basically like, that's what it means to be alive. It's like, yes, I could efficiently purchase this. It would be cheaper, it would save me time. But what am I doing with my time? Yeah, and I think that's my argument is that like, we are not here to be efficient robots and to create fucking shareholder value for whatever mega corporation we're all inevitably working for. We're here to just have a good time. And maybe this is the. This is like me being Greek and having like our whole society has no economy and it's a very hangout based society. But I would. My argument is like, we don't. I don't. I want, I want people to have those experiences and to just have these messy things and experience love and like, I don't want you because you don't have enough money and you're ugly and maybe you're. Your family was bad because, like, look, there's ugly motherfuck. You know, I may be a. Like, if I had a mom who didn't believe in me, I might still be a fucking incel. Right? Because it's like I. She did instill something in me that I had to unlock. And I don't want you Just because your circumstances are bad to be like, you know what, man? It's really inefficient for you to try and get pussies this long. Like. Like you should give up on it and have fucking the huel of pussy and just. Just. You know what? What? You'll be better at coding. And you can get more. You can game more and you can watch more streamers. Right?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know what I mean?

[Neil Brennan]

It's like, no backflips.

[Stavros Halkias]

What are they doing with their time?

[Neil Brennan]

My man fits.

[Stavros Halkias]

Check out Fitz. He's got fall. He's probably wearing some corduroy.

[Neil Brennan]

It's. It's sick.

[Stavros Halkias]

But anyway, that is my argument. It's like, right.

[Neil Brennan]

But I'm not. You think I'm talking about efficiency. What I'm talking about is the amount of anguish I've experienced trying to be in relationships that I should not have been trying to be in. And because I thought the highest ideal was right.

[Stavros Halkias]

So you're saying they're better off not even trying to get pussy?

[Neil Brennan]

I'm not saying I want to give them the option.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

That it's. That you may be in. And again, maybe it's my special brand of chaos that I grew up with, but I just would find me anytime I went to therapy. It was because, like, why don't I like this more? Sure. Why don't I like this relationship more? I wasn't in the right one. I actually am now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. But like, okay, that's my. So maybe you just made my point. All that.

[Neil Brennan]

I really hope I didn't.

[Stavros Halkias]

All that led you to the right relationship and you're happy now and you're in a situation where things are fucking stable and good.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of what's right about the relationship is me finally acknowledging what I'm capable of instead of having this ideal of taking their word for what I should be capable of and then being upset all the time that I'm not. And they're upset, but I'm secretly upset there. I resent them. We've all been there.

[Stavros Halkias]

You let resentment build. You pretend you're okay with something and then you're like that fucking piss. She should have known what I fucking actually wanted to do. Even though I didn't say it. I fucking should have fucking. I was making it pretty, pretty clear. Even though I said the exact opposite of what I feel to get out of an awkward conversation.

[Neil Brennan]

She betrayed. Either way, it's a betrayal.

[Stavros Halkias]

Either way, it's a betrayal. She's a. I'M gonna do this for two more years.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, no, I'm not gonna break up with her.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, no, no.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm just gonna go on other girls Instagram and like, I'm gonna like. And then unlike quickly.

[Stavros Halkias]

Cuz ultimately I'm still a coward. I won't even. I don't even have the guts to cheat.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Stavros Halkias]

I prefer this.

[Neil Brennan]

Oh man, my stomach hurts. I wonder if this is in any way related. Probably not, but that's what I mean. Like that cycle of nonsense. I could have gotten to where this good relationship sooner if I'd acknowledged my own.

[Stavros Halkias]

You would never learn. You would have never learned it if you didn't do. If you didn't go through all that and it probably took you longer.

[Neil Brennan]

Cause your little family is so frapped up. That rhyme where Jay Z and Kanye's done the same rhyme where it's like, well, if I didn't deal drugs, I wouldn't have been able to know not to deal. Then it's like, shut the fuck. You like dealing drugs because there was money in it.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I would say, and yes, that's also true. You liked fucking all those insane women at the time, right? You like. On some level you liked it.

[Neil Brennan]

But one of them, Bobby Lee, said, that girl's the crazy. That girl's got the craziest look I've ever seen in a woman's eyes. And from Bobby, that means something.

[Stavros Halkias]

Do you have her number?

[Neil Brennan]

I mean it really speaks to the level.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's the craziest woman I've ever seen. Do you think she watched mad tv?

[Neil Brennan]

Huh? Yeah. So. So. So, yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

How do you. Okay. How do you think you would have figured this out if you weren't dating?

[Neil Brennan]

You think you would have meditated? I had been more open with my. What I'm saying now, which I don't know, that it's the highest aspiration for a human male. Because by the way, like, as. As discussed, romance is like 100 years old. 110.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like he's a little older than that.

[Neil Brennan]

It's not.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're fucking read ancient Greek poetry and shit like that. I mean, it's okay. It's always been there. Societal structures have taken it out of our lives would be my point. Point. I think since fucking cavemen there's been romance, you know.

[Neil Brennan]

True. I fundamentally disagree.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, there we go. That might be the root of our disagreement.

[Neil Brennan]

Troubadours were not. Troubadours were hired by men to play for their lady like Beth. Fucking. Yeah, this is what I think.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, it's like. So this idea of, like, guys were not romantic. I don't. I think even emotions are new besides anger.

[Stavros Halkias]

You. You don't even feel emotions. You're just talking about yourself in the most clear way I can ever. I know you came from an angry family of 10. That's what you know. You know, nothing but anger and no love. We're all. And I came from a fam. I mean, we're just taught. I mean, this is the other problem.

[Neil Brennan]

We're just projecting.

[Stavros Halkias]

Everyone is projecting. Yeah, but where. It's like, I come from where it was all chaos, but the good times were good. Yeah. You know, and that, like. Like, there were, like, there is things I. You know, even in my fan.

[Neil Brennan]

Even in my brothers and sisters. My. I had. I also had great, like, legitimately, but I don't. But I was furious.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. I don't think. I mean, I don't think the idea that emotions and romance did the.

[Neil Brennan]

I think it's all related. I'm gonna. Dude, look, check your phone. You're gonna be getting a lot of links.

[Stavros Halkias]

But this is so funny, because the podcast we did before, I mean, I won't say what, but we recently had a conversation where it was like. We were having almost the exact opposite conversation where it was like, isn't it crazy how human beings have been the same forever? And literally, I think we have all had the same exact thoughts and feelings and emotions since language was developed. That's. My belief, is that humanity has been fundamentally the same and that we do have these feelings. And maybe we were. We weren't good at, like, expressing them, whatever. But I think people had the same feelings we've had. Fucking cavemen.

[Neil Brennan]

You think? Okay, so let's take a village. We'll put it in, like, Brazil.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure.

[Neil Brennan]

In a thousand years ago.

[Stavros Halkias]

A thousand years ago. Okay.

[Neil Brennan]

Do you think that they. That all the men and the women that were together were in love? And you think that it was like, they were loving to the children and it was like what we would call a stable, loving environment.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Neil Brennan]

And it sounds like I'm being sarcastic.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't think you're being sarcastic. I really don't. I would say no because. Because of what I said before, where it was like, societal structures and the ability, like survival sometimes dictate that you. You have to order your society in a different way.

[Neil Brennan]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

So do I think those emotions were in those people? Yes. Do I think that if you grow, if your society's in a very violent place and that, like, you're gonna act a certain you, you will adapt to your surroundings and like, you know, if things are harsh and violent then like you're probably, you know, there's, it's probably less about love and more about survival and power and like people just kidnap the woman they want. But I would say in, in even ancient civilizations where there was order, you see it where you see ancient works. And I will just say Greece because we have the most. You know, you look at ancient Greece, you look at Romeo, they're fucking writing about love and feelings and all this shit. That was a big part of it. And so I think the second humans get a little breathing room, these emotions exist. These emotions exist and these feelings exist. And that like inceldom is the way like if you were in a harsh environment and like some tribe where it was just like, you know, there was no time for romance because it was like you just had to align yourself with the strongest, most violent.

[Neil Brennan]

I think that's most of human history.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure. Absolutely. We, we are very lucky to live in a time where that's not the case. Right. And I'm saying like, let's not let the fact like I think is a version of those things has stripped some people from their ability to connect and have this like the joy of humanity that we get to live in because we're in a civilized time. It's almost so civilized and we're so comfortable that it's kind of taken that taken it from them. And I'm saying let's not do that. Let's get back to, you know, let's enjoy the fruits of the time that we are, you know, that we're living in and you can get over low self esteem and like, you know, our food is too calorically dense. No one's starving. You're getting too fat.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Let's triumph over that.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's not that you're starving and you don't get to have a wife because you die at 12.

[Neil Brennan]

It's.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're too fucking fat because all your food is too nutritious or whatever. It's like, let's fucking. We can, it's new circumstances, but ultimately we can defeat those two. And I think like, and again, I just stick to my point of like that is what it is to be human. It doesn't make sense and it is emotion based and it's like having a good time and companionship. I just think that's part of it. I really do.

[Neil Brennan]

I agree. I would prefer, I'd want to give these young These beautiful young men. The option that. It's just an option. It's a way to go.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Similar to like, it's a type of music or like, what does that life.

[Stavros Halkias]

Look like to you?

[Neil Brennan]

Which.

[Stavros Halkias]

What is this option? Right. Like you. Right. You're saying you could have figured it out if you hadn't been in these relationships. What are you doing instead of dating these women? Just beating off CrossFit, but then inevitably.

[Neil Brennan]

You get jacked and you meet a.

[Stavros Halkias]

Girl at the CrossFit gym and you fuck her.

[Neil Brennan]

No, I'm. I don't. I don't know. I like, read like just my life just without the nonsense of feeling like a failure because I'm not meeting the romantic needs.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, you know what's interesting of a.

[Neil Brennan]

Of a woman.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, you know what's interesting is that that is kind of the advice we give people is like, for a while, don't worry about it and improve yourself.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I think if you do that, you will not stay in incel. Because then.

[Neil Brennan]

I totally agree.

[Stavros Halkias]

But what I'm saying, we just agree on this.

[Neil Brennan]

Maybe I agree.

[Stavros Halkias]

We've just had this, our conversation, and we are actually on the same page.

[Neil Brennan]

When you take the robots out of.

[Stavros Halkias]

It, you want them to have robots or you don't want them to have fuck robots? Because that's. That is a hard line. I say do not go down that path.

[Neil Brennan]

Here's. It's similar to my. It's a Grand Theft Auto argument I've had, which is if I'm playing Grand Theft Auto.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And I'm having like an incredible experience.

[Stavros Halkias]

Why go out and drive a real car afterwards?

[Neil Brennan]

Yes. What's the difference. What's the difference between. If the. If it's the exact same flavor of protein. If it's the same. It's the same grams. Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

It tastes like ribeye.

[Neil Brennan]

What's the difference? I get the. I get the. Avert the human aversion to it.

[Stavros Halkias]

This is the. This is a good one. I like this.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. But like, what is the. If you can get from a. The thing you can. That you're talking about in this utopian relationship that I think some people have. Can you get it if you get it from a robot and don't worry about humanity. We can lab grown. We can lab grow people in the next. In the next. In the next warehouse over.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe they get the same spot with blue eyes.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

All the ugly people get sex robots. Everyone. This is what we're talking.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, eugenics. It's time Maybe it's time. So, so what I'm saying is if the, if these same endorphins are being fired, the same, the same chemicals are being fired by this robot, it's a bit like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Here I have an answer. I have what would bother me about it. It's that this robot exists to serve you. It is a fully one way relationship. And I think part of, part of the experience is that it is not perfectly suited to you. It's like people go into ChatGPT and they're like, dude, you're the fucking great. Exactly. It's like, like if that's all you.

[Neil Brennan]

Have and kind of deep seek is doing it now. Too deep. It's like the Chinese one. It's like, I expect it from. Yeah, Silicon Valley. But the Chinese, I thought they'd be ice cold. Like totally like the kid.

[Stavros Halkias]

Go, Go practice violin.

[Neil Brennan]

Why are you on here? Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have time to ask me about what Larry Birch.

[Neil Brennan]

This is frivolous.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Your life is frivolous.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, Go do your equations. I, that's my problem with it is that maybe you can trick yourself into firing the same synapses, but again you have, you have opted out of humanity in a much more pleasurable way than like just not getting pussy. Now you've lab grown pussy. But I would say like part of the joy of making, you know, of achieving that is that it is hard and that it is a. It's. It's. You're combining forces with another person who's a completely separate entity. And it's not just pleasing yourself, it's actually pleasing someone. Now if you say the robot can. We can program that in and they can pretend to be mad difficult.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Figure out to do you have to do the dishes too? But then it just becomes a video game that you can. Then you'll go on fucking Reddit and be like, what's the cheat to get pussy on Thursday? You know what I mean? Like a X, Y, double, double tap her nipples. Fuck it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like. And it's like you get. She'll fuck you whenever. Like, like that's my problem with it is that it just, you just get whatever you want too easily. And my hunch is there is no way that that opiate is used on disaffected men in any way. That's good. Any society that sets that up instead of saying, hey, why don't we have jobs programs and like health care so that you know, you're you don't. You don't. You're not all fucked up and you can make money, you know, and infrastructure and cities where young people, like, go to Europe and it's like, there's places people congregate. There's places people see each other. And it's like instead of device designing our cities where kind of. To go back to our. To our cultural conversation where it's like. It's like where we value human connection because America has gone away from valuing that in the way we design our cities, the way we organize our life.

[Neil Brennan]

Although I will say the. The amount of bikes and the like, New York's way better than it was.

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible. I love it. I mean, living here is fucking. I love, you know, being in Manhattan. I literally bike everywhere. But it's like, yeah, that. That is really. It is that, like. Because that to me is a. Is a. Like, nice. We can control people easily this way instead of just giving them a worthwhile.

[Neil Brennan]

I guess it's just. I don't. I don't. I. Obviously it goes to, like, a mechanism of control and. And Black Mirror and all that shit, but.

[Stavros Halkias]

You'Re Joey Pant. You're Joey Pants in the Matrix.

[Neil Brennan]

You're, like, seen in a while.

[Stavros Halkias]

But where he's like. He's like, I don't even care that this is a fake steak.

[Neil Brennan]

You know what I mean?

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, that's kind of who you are here.

[Neil Brennan]

It's a bit like, what's the.

[Stavros Halkias]

If everyone can have a matrix where their. Their life is good, is that better than being a peasant in whatever. Whatever cyberpunk future?

[Neil Brennan]

Like, yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is it better than being an incel. Cyberpunk?

[Neil Brennan]

What is. Is human flourishing? Because I would see it as like, I had this never going to happen. Like, but like, there's that and I get to be a comedian, all that other shit.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Neil Brennan]

So. And like I said, I'm in a great relationship, but I. For that, I want to say to the. To the. To the. To those guys, like, it's a thing, but it doesn't have to be the highest aspiration of your life.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And again, the same way, it's like, what if you're. What do you do with all that time? I don't know. What do you do when you're single?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

You figure it out.

[Stavros Halkias]

Play Mario Tennis.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Now all of a sudden you don't like Mario Tennis. What a horrible life. Doing drugs and watching Ragnarok.

[Stavros Halkias]

But okay, all right, well, I. There is a limit to that because I am up against it where I'm like, like, this has been really fun, but I do feel like there is something else. Right. And I do think pursuing personal growth in the form of relationships and in like, community, that's my next step. Personally, like, I'm somebody who has maxed out the awesome life of my life, has been chilling with the fellas.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And having an awesome time. And I feel the ceiling of that. So anyway, either. Either extreme is bad for you. I think that's another thing. You can feel empty when your life's fucking so sick and you're not making real connection. But.

[Neil Brennan]

I was finding myself putting that value above my own value or the values of that above the values of what I think is important in life or what I. The things that I really care about.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's interesting because I have done the opposite where I have definitely put what my values of, like, basically my career over. And this is starting from when I was in college. I remember I would be in therapy and be like, I don't think I can have a girlfriend because I need to be focusing on open mics. And I meant it. And I.

[Neil Brennan]

You know, I don't think that's bad advice.

[Stavros Halkias]

Maybe it wasn't at the time, but now I think I am stunted in the opposite direction where my shit's going great career wise. I feel really good about it, everything. But I do feel behind in relationships and like, you know, just not just even romantic ones. Like, it. The last couple years, I got closer to my family. I'd really drifted apart from them because I was so. And it's. And then the next level is like, relationships and also like, community and finding a place I want to live and putting down roots because I think all that shit's important. And so I think the extreme.

[Neil Brennan]

But I. Yeah, I think that that's also valuable. Like, community is valuable and fellowship and all that shit. Like, I just think it's a mist. I just. I. I did it. I went too far into that. Like, into the extreme, like, of like, I should and I gotta. And I'm good, man. And what. And just like, I don't even. What do I. It's like you literally. I would have to go, like, what am I like? And what do I value? It's the heart. It's. I almost have to do it every day.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And like, I get that though.

[Neil Brennan]

And that thing where you're aspiring to, like, boot up. Stavros.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, of course. And I am.

[Neil Brennan]

What's he like? Relative to the other than just like habits or like if you, if you had a girlfriend who you loved and you.

[Stavros Halkias]

How.

[Neil Brennan]

And you just did what she wanted or you tried to make her happy, what do you think? How would that change you?

[Stavros Halkias]

I think I'd probably be more grounded. I think, like I would. It helps you understand. Even though now I know that, you know, career stuff and everything isn't important, it's like that's all that really matters to me right now. And I'm trying to fall back on it, but it's like. And it's one thing to intellectually say that stuff doesn't matter, but when you have nothing else in your life, it sort of default becomes the thing. Like some nebulous time off to improve myself is different than. I need to see my. I need to actually spend time with my girl the same way I've kind of do that with my family. It's like I made a. You know, instead of being here in podcasting or whatever. I went to fucking Baltimore. I saw my family. Now did I sneak work into that too? And I have to work on that. Like, it's just making me a more balanced person is really the answer. And again, I do think there is a beauty in that, in finding that and, you know, merging your life with a person. And I think if it's done right, it's even better than just being. Than the best version of being single. You know what I mean?

[Neil Brennan]

Because then it's like that I agree with. It's just so hard to fall into ones that aren't that. And you tell yourself they are because you have to.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure.

[Neil Brennan]

Because that's what the culture is telling you.

[Stavros Halkias]

So it's.

[Neil Brennan]

You can't even hear how you actually feel about it. You won't allow yourself to really feel about it, to feel what you feel.

[Stavros Halkias]

What if we actually try? I'm sure Eldis has been listening to this. Do we have any calls from incels? Because what if we took this? No. Look at him. God damn. Why did I even. Why did I even think that you might be doing some. Some forward thinking producing here?

[Eldis]

I mean, I'm not gonna listen to calls while you guys are talking, but there's.

[Stavros Halkias]

Half the people that call in are incels. El, this is. You didn't have any.

[Eldis]

Well, I have one.

[Neil Brennan]

What? That.

[Eldis]

Is this kind of.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because we do need to help the people as well. Yeah. We could talk for five hours in a row, uninterrupted.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, of course.

[Eldis]

But I do have a juicy story we can start with that is kind of ultimately a moral, philosophical question.

[Stavros Halkias]

Great. Great.

[Neil Brennan]

It's like SummerSlam, but boring.

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[Neil Brennan]

At Maurices, we're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right.

[Stavros Halkias]

The ones that simply make you feel good.

[Neil Brennan]

Because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Find great jeans starting at 29.90 in.

[Stavros Halkias]

Stores and at Marisa's.com Hey Stavi, eldest.

[Caller 1]

Guest would love your take on a situation that happened to me about six months ago. About a year ago I got out of a four year relationship with a girl I thought I was gonna marry. I found out she was cheating on me. Then about six months ago, I work in entertainment. I was at an event with a, I'll say, a C level celebrity who.

[Stavros Halkias]

I work we there.

[Caller 1]

And this celebrity, she was sort of flirty the whole week that we were away at this event.

[Neil Brennan]

Okay.

[Caller 1]

And then on the last night of the event, she invited me back to her room.

[Stavros Halkias]

Nice.

[Caller 1]

We were both sober. We're both about the same age, in our late 20s. I went back to her room. It got a little flirty. We started to hook up.

[Stavros Halkias]

Nice.

[Caller 1]

We were making out. I was in shock. I kind of couldn't believe this was all happening. And then as we're making out, her phone rings and it's her husband and she sort of shoos me away for a second. So I go sit on the couch and I listen to her talk to her husband because she put him on speakerphone and basically it was like a good night. How Was your day how can't wait to see you. Miss you so much. And. And in that moment, my heart. How many times was I this guy? And basically she calls me back over. She says good night, hangs up, calls me back over to continue where we left off. But I couldn't do it.

[Caller 2]

I.

[Caller 1]

We kissed a little bit longer and then I said I had to go and I left her room. And basically I don't know how to feel about it. I'm never, probably never going to talk to her again. But the way my work is, it's not like she's someone I'm going to see again. But it was definitely like a once in a lifetime sort of situation.

[Stavros Halkias]

Definitely a squandered it.

[Caller 1]

And of course my half my friends.

[Neil Brennan]

I would have gotten harder. I'll tell you right now, anyone who knows me knows I would get harder in that situation.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, wow. Leaving.

[Caller 1]

And the other half thinks I did the right thing. Just wanted to sort of get your take on it because now it's been six months and I really don't know how to feel.

[Stavros Halkias]

It depends on my new anymore.

[Caller 1]

Sometimes I'm like, wow, what an amazing experience.

[Stavros Halkias]

I even got to watch whatever CW.

[Caller 1]

Shows the mom on and I should have just, you know, gone through with it. Anyway, I would love your take on it. How should I feel?

[Stavros Halkias]

Thanks. Interesting. Interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

So he basically just had like a moral. Yeah, he had moral clarity.

[Stavros Halkias]

Help a woman cheat on her husband.

[Neil Brennan]

I. I think, I think he absolutely did the right thing. She was famous. Is that the thing she was.

[Stavros Halkias]

See, look, some celebs, some. She's probably hot as.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And also, yes, this is part of the problem of like putting fame above it because it's like you take the famous out of it and this is almost. No, there's almost no quandary at all. Yeah, it's just the general. I mean, we've come up with this question a bunch on the show where it's like, hey, how wrong is it to be the person someone is cheating with? Right. And you know, again, this is what I talk about where being a human is. It's all about being met. You know, it's not all perfect. Part of humanity is getting slurped off by some. Who I don't even, you know, I'm trying to think who it possibly.

[Neil Brennan]

You leave it there. Some bitch getting slurped off by some. That's part of life is getting slurped off by some.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, there is the thing of like, you know, should you be. Should you extra not cheat because you got cheated on. Or do you take the other thing where it's like, sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail.

[Neil Brennan]

Look, I was saying. Yeah. By the end of life, this was this.

[Stavros Halkias]

God. Trying to be like, my bad. Your. Your. Your ex sucked off her guy at work.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Here, you know, suck the. You know, this lady on a straight to Netflix sitcom or whatever.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. And you show that you will never watch, but it's in the top 10 for four weeks, and you're like, what is this Reno? What's the premise? And it's just like a bunch of white people on a porch.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Like, okay, yeah, yeah, whatever. Bridgerton knockoff and Bridgerton spin off the.

[Neil Brennan]

Maid on a Bridgerton crime. And okay, there's a body. There's a boat.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Neil Brennan]

Okay. I don't. Yeah, yeah, I don't. To me.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

I. I'm not a big. I've done it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Neil Brennan]

And I. I'm not even that ashamed of it. It's like, I don't know, like, if I'm. Have I been. I've been cheated on and I. Yeah, you're everybody by the end.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely.

[Neil Brennan]

So I don't know.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's another freeing thing about another incel. Thing is like, you remember being the loser who got a girl taken from you, and then you become the guy who takes the girl. It's like, it happens sometimes. And so how should you feel about it? It's about who you are. You're clearly a moral guy. You probably wouldn't have felt great about it. Also, the other thing is, like, the work element gives it another reason not to do it.

[Neil Brennan]

It.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know what I mean? It's like, this is somebody that.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's a professional setting. You know, it's kind of a. You could argue maybe, if anything, you could have been like, she lured me into her room and used her power over me as.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, this sounds like the setup for Classic.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you got it. Maybe you got her dead to rights, chief. She wanted me to cheat on her husband. She had lost my consent by showing that she's cheated.

[Neil Brennan]

She said, wait here, and called her husband on speaker.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, that is. That is a crazy psychological.

[Neil Brennan]

Putting on speaker is like, this woman's a real.

[Stavros Halkias]

If she's. Hey, can. She's like, hey, can you give me five minutes? And just like, takes the call or whatever. That's better. Putting it on speaker is like. It is interesting because putting it on speaker almost kind of ensures you're the kind of dirt Bag that'll take this to the grave. You know what I mean? Because like someone who's on the fence and has to listen to this guy.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. The sprinklers are up again. The water got in. You have to hear him say that.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then fuck his wife.

[Neil Brennan]

No.

[Stavros Halkias]

That actually might have affected even.

[Neil Brennan]

It's like a snuff film at that point. I have a question for you. This. She goes. Goes. He goes, Sits on the couch. I'm assuming naked. What is the saddest part of the couch to sit on?

[Stavros Halkias]

Ooh, interesting.

[Neil Brennan]

Like lodged into a corner.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think you want to be. I think you want to be corner furthest. What I would choose is corner furthest away from her. Just to psychically put a little distance. The corner is sort of like. I mean, you know, you're sort of. It's comforting. You're leaning on it for emotional support. Saddest I think would be right in this middle divot.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because you're sort of like.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're just kind of fully. It's yourself supporting you and it's you being like you're kind of. I'm ready whenever you. You're ready to suck me. I'm. I'm just your little toy. And I'm gonna help you cheat on your husband. You know, that's the most sub.

[Neil Brennan]

I. I would suggest sitting on the arm.

[Stavros Halkias]

Arm.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's why you're a visionary, Neil. I didn't even consider arm.

[Neil Brennan]

Sit on the arm. You gotta use the whole couch, bro. I didn't say cushions.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Sit on the arm. Gives you.

[Stavros Halkias]

You.

[Neil Brennan]

You're.

[Eldis]

You.

[Neil Brennan]

You keep your self esteem. I think if you did like a Lay down on it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Lay down.

[Neil Brennan]

And if you do the thing that Sudeikis used to do in that Scared Straight sketch where he'd hop onto the desk. Oh, you lay down on the bed.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Full confidence or take it to the next level. Sit on top.

[Stavros Halkias]

Top, top. Center is almost like I'm the king of this.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And I'm keeping my at eye level.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

So you. Now you try to outdo me by making me listen to your husband. I'm going to make you look down the barrel of my dick while you talk to him.

[Neil Brennan]

That, that, that lady's. That's. She's evil. I don't want to say like that. That's so fucking.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's fucking crazy.

[Neil Brennan]

Now married the guy and is going to go home to him.

[Stavros Halkias]

Now. I wonder very. The light devil's advocate. Is there some kind of. She probably would have told him if there was some kind of arrangement, right? Like, because it's also possible we're talking about show business people. We're talking about a guy who's a simp to a famous woman. I'm sure plenty of people, like NBA players, all cheat on their wives. I'm sure there's actresses who are like, look, look, I'm hot as shit. I'm an actress. I'm gonna. You're lucky to be with me. I'm gonna. And you do you. You see that dynamic where even if they don't actually cheat on them, the man is cucked by just. He's almost like her lapdog, her husband. You've seen I think of a woman.

[Neil Brennan]

Makes $1 more than you, you are cucked. I guess I'm old. I'm old fashioned. This is where I. Where I am on this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Of course. So there's a small chance, but she probably would have said something before he left. Who knows? But either way, did you do the right thing? Did you not do the right thing? I think for you it was the right also.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, what do you. What if you're looking for like a scalp of like I fucked a famous. It's like you kind of just want. You did something.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh no. By the way, I've gotten to the age where knowing a girl would. If she would sign a motorized form that was like, I would have you tonight. That would be enough for me.

[Neil Brennan]

That's what it is.

[Stavros Halkias]

Grabbing a bear title.

[Neil Brennan]

Well, you're gonna love Robot Sex World. She just fell into my trap. This is what the whole lifestyle's about.

[Stavros Halkias]

It comes with a signed affidavit from a woman. You want to print it out and then you just. The robot. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Yes, yes. They have to honor it. No, but that's. But, but that's what you want. You want another. That's. You want another human being to find you desirable enough to you sure. And then you want tenderness on the other.

[Stavros Halkias]

At a certain point. Yeah. At a certain point, if you enough, you're like, all right, I get pussy. It's getting pussy is whatever. But having someone want to you.

[Neil Brennan]

It's also kind of more strenuous than I'd like it to be. Some.

[Stavros Halkias]

I've definitely. I've literally thrown my back out having sex. Sex. And then they're like, well, great. I got. And now the four days.

[Neil Brennan]

But at what cost? I did it again.

[Stavros Halkias]

God damn. Oh man. The fattest I ever was. I. I really was just doing every drug and put, you know, Random sex. And I was just. I really would throw my back out. Like, every, like, there was a stretch where I would just throw my back out getting, like. I was just like, I know this is gonna happen. It wasn't even, like, it might happen. It was like, I'm so fat, I'm gonna throw my back out. I'm gonna go get a massage.

[Neil Brennan]

But you'd schedule the massage.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Like, it would be like, when we get back from the road, Eldis, I'm gonna be between podcasts. I'm gonna go get a massage at the place on Steinway or whatever. You got time for a couple more? All right, let's do a couple more, because I'd love to use your wisdom on our fucking. On our callers here.

[Caller 2]

Hey, Stavi. Hey, Alde. An esteemed guest, longtime listener, second time caller, I think. I've called once, and the first one was stupid. So you guys didn't do anything with it. This one's probably pretty stupid too, but I need a little bit of advice. So I am an uncle to two nephews. One of them is three. The other one is less than a year. The one that is less than a year is definitely the chick. Chillest of the two. And the oldest is a nightmare to be around. I used to love him. He used to be super chill, but he wasn't turning three and four. He's become an absolute nightmare to be around. I am struggling with the fact that as just a person, I, I hate kids. I despise them. They're sticky, they're gross, they're annoying, they are just overall unpleasant to be around. But I feel like that is coming into conflict with the unspoken rule that as his uncle, I'm, I'm meant to look past all that, I guess, and just pretend that he isn't a little piece of. And, like, be cool with him. Like, I, I, Then I get into all the, all the things that he's done to piss me off. I mean, just existing. Honestly, nervous, as horrible as that might sound, I just, I, I, I don't know. I guess my. I guess ultimately my question is, is it okay for me to, to kind of, kind of hate my nephew? Like, is he gonna grow out of this? Is there a chance that he's gonna be, like, you know, like, a, his entire life? Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's, like, the way my brother and his wife are raising him, because they don't, like, they don't beat him, which is good, I guess. But you Know as a kid that got beat a time or two as a kid, it definitely.

[Stavros Halkias]

He'd be way chiller if he got hit. Are you out of your mind, you idiot? When is. I mean, no one who got hit is better off because of it. In fact, some of them grow up to resentment the weak so much the resent that they can't hit children that they become dickheads about it and claim that they don't like kids because they're sticky and loud.

[Neil Brennan]

I wanna. Let me just stop you right there.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

A buddy of mine has kids and him, his wife had a no spanking thing and then they were trying to leave and the daughter wasn't getting ready or whatever, just being like a terror, like a real dickhead. And the wife was like, it's time. And he spanked his daughter and he said she couldn't believe. Most of the tears were about, I can't believe you did that.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. You betrayed me.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

The person who's supposed to look out for my safety harmed me.

[Neil Brennan]

And. But they, they was never a problem again.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And look, now he has a punctual daughter who resents him on some level. And.

[Neil Brennan]

When you have kids, dude, it's my girl as a kid. So it's like it's.

[Stavros Halkias]

Hitting is hitting.

[Neil Brennan]

I'm not. There's gonna be no hitting.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know what this is? This is back to our like. Or were we better off when there was no romance? And it's like were we were kid. Did kids listen more when you hit them? Yes.

[Neil Brennan]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

But they also then hit their wives. Yes. You know what I mean?

[Neil Brennan]

Sometimes. But sometimes they, sometimes they didn't. And you gotta take that into consideration.

[Stavros Halkias]

So.

[Neil Brennan]

So what I'm saying is I think it's like you've heard the thing again in the black community. Like, I'm going to hit you so that white people don't hit you in the future. And it's going to be way worse.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Like there are useful forms of spanking that are instructive and pro social.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't know that I believe that actually. I think, I think hitting your kid is probably just abuse on every. Most of the time. And I think like, I, I mean, I haven't looked at the literature, but like I, I looked at it, I brought it downstairs. I did look. There was like, when I was younger, there was so much. I kind of looked at it a little bit because of how many like you gotta beat your kids like, jokes I would encounter. And I almost as like a shitty, you know, early 20s yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

A guy who had a library card and a. And a avid viewer of BET comic view.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, exactly. Literally. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I was like, this can't be true. And I really don't think it's ever good. It's just. It's obviously harder, and it has. The more. You know, there's more chaos to it. But what this guy's talking about is, we can table the should you hit your kids? Conversation. Because I think this guy is just like. Because his question is about, like, the. My nephew's vibes are off.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, that's gonna make. Can I hit some vibes? Yeah. I don't. You can't. I don't. Kids are gonna be.

[Stavros Halkias]

What?

[Neil Brennan]

They're like, yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it's like.

[Neil Brennan]

And boys are. Are like, a handful.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

That's the other thing that I wasn't even aware of. Like, it's. He wakes up and it's like, go time.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Until he goes to sleep, and he doesn't want to go to sleep.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

That's a fight. So, like, it's relentless.

[Stavros Halkias]

I just experienced, like. Yeah. My friend's kid, he's just. He's just getting out of baby and kind of. Because he's like two and a half almost. Actually, he's almost three. And this is the age where he's like. Like, he just. I showed him at, like, sword fighting for the first time. She was like, he's tried to sword fight me. You can't even.

[Neil Brennan]

You can't introduce it. You can't introduce certain kinds of violence or, like, activity.

[Stavros Halkias]

And to the point where he saw him. I stopped by their house right before bedtime. He saw me. His fucking eyes lit up.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

He comes, he brings me. I'm gonna get him a sword for his birthday. I'm gonna give him, like, foam swords. Right now. He has a pizza set. And it's like a. We were sword fighting with little spatulas or whatever. He sees me. He goes right to the spatulas, and he's like. And he's just like. He choreographs a fight we did a month ago to a baby. A month. A guy who's been alive 26 months. That's 1 26th of his life. Yeah, but he remembers it. He's like, this is one of my most cherished memories. It's a sword fight with, you know, my mom's friend. So, like. And. Yes. And he's a handful, and he's like, energy.

[Neil Brennan]

Don't hit him.

[Stavros Halkias]

Him. I'm not gonna Hit him. Too sweet.

[Neil Brennan]

He's too great. You don't need it.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I did, by the way. I did. See? And. And he started crying and he. They were like. Like he didn't want to go to bed. He wanted to keep sword fighting. And my friend did something that looked annoying. Like, I saw it. I saw it in their eyes. She was like, she talked him through his emotions, and it took like a half hour. And it pro. It would have been a lot easier to backhand. The money's gonna be better off, you know, because he went through that.

[Neil Brennan]

What. What's worked for you in terms of discipline in your life?

[Stavros Halkias]

Me personally?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. In terms of just like, I have locked my computer. I've done. I had a TV lock. My mom used to lock the TV up. I'm not prone to have good work habits. I'm prone to be lazy, procrastinate, all that shit.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And I've had to institute shit to make myself better at it. So that's why when I hear about hitting, it's like it's the next. It's the next level.

[Stavros Halkias]

You wish you could hit yourself? Is that what you're saying?

[Neil Brennan]

I do hit myself.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Neil Brennan]

When I saw the Tom Hanks, Da Vinci Code, the Guy who Whips Himself, I was like, yo, I didn't know that shit is wild. I didn't. I like this term self flagellation, I was aware of. I didn't know they had a device.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right. Yeah. What's worked for me and that.

[Neil Brennan]

It was on Amazon prime, of course.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And it's for sex usually, but you figured.

[Neil Brennan]

Or writing.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, we're banging out that screenplay. What's worked for me is literally nothing. I mean, nothing ever. It's like things have to get so bad that, like, I just, just I, I even right now, it's like, I, it's cycles of, like, despair and then, like, yeah, I'm nothing. I'm sure my biggest, my. The defining struggle of my life will be discipline around food. I mean, I've been able to cut out drugs. I've been able to even, like, put together hard periods of like. But if I don't. What's worked for me is, like, so solely focusing on something when it's gotten so bad it needs all my attention. Right. And I think that cycles of shame and guilt into, like, that's kind of how I'm so. I don't know. I'm not. You know, I have a lot of. Fuck. I Have my own, you know, psychological issues. But when it comes to this guy, his attitude just sucks dick when it comes to the.

[Neil Brennan]

Oh, it's terrible. I almost don't think he should be allowed near the kids.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, look, dude, he's a fucking kid. Also you're like, I hate kids thing. It's like, it's a little corny when I hear people say that. Cuz like I'm not even somebody who's sold on whether I want to have kids. Right. Because it's a lot of work and it's a lot of like you dedicate, you know, whatever. But I like being somebody who wants to be childless and understanding that you don't want to have a kid is different than being like, kids suck. It's like, no, they, we're all kids.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's a, it's a part of humanity. It's like even if you don't have kids, it's like, like it's nice to be around also. It's like there's positives like that level of innocence, that level of like, you know, someone who's not self conscious at all.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Or pure earnestness.

[Stavros Halkias]

Pure earnest. And also like honest with you about exactly what they're feeling at all times. There's like things you can like you can learn things from children too. The way they can learn like not being a complete, you know, around you. And it's like. And you just have to, by the way, model that behavior and like, who knows, you know, whatever. And it's like your brother or sister and their husband or wife, like they might just be overworked. This kid might just be a handful. My brother now, who is the easiest guy to get along with and the most dependable member of my family by far, was a fucking terror when he was a little kid. He was super energetic. Hard to. And also kids grow out of it. It's like, like I just don't like that whole vibe.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. The thing of like, I wish I could. Yeah. Like, and he'll get better. The kid will get. His vibe will get better as he age.

[Stavros Halkias]

I also like, by the way, I don't know that your vibes are good. Are you the judge of good?

[Neil Brennan]

You're not sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, I'm on the fence.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Eldis]

This is something that happens in families all the time too.

[Neil Brennan]

But you also have to walk a line. Cuz he's a fan.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Neil Brennan]

So you don't want. You don't want.

[Stavros Halkias]

We're at the point where we can lose them.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Go ahead.

[Stavros Halkias]

We can lose one or two. What were you gonna say?

[Eldis]

I feel like it happens in families all the time, too, where, like, you know, from childhood, you just attach certain, like, characteristics to a kid where, like, that informs every interaction you have with this kid. That's for the rest of your life. So, you know, check yourself. Like, if you're doing that, is this kid gonna be, like, 17 one day and just like a totally normal high schooler? And you're like, oh, here's this annoying.

[Stavros Halkias]

Because he had a bad day when he was four.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Now you think he's a piece of for life. That's a great point.

[Neil Brennan]

It's also a different kind of engagement with a kid. It's like, it's not for you.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally. And by the way, this also could mean you're not around the kid enough, right?

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, you see him every six months, and like you said, you barely know who he is. You might have caught him on an outlier day. Like, I've been around the kid. I was.

[Neil Brennan]

If you're the kid, call in, let us know what's happening.

[Stavros Halkias]

Dial on your little Fisher Price phone and let us know what's going on. But, yeah, you know, I've been around my friend's kid enough where I've seen him behave lots of different ways. And like, now with my nephew, I'm like, I need to be around him at least once a month so that I actually have a real relationship with him, even though I live in a different city. So it's like, you know, I got a hunch you're. You're contributing to that. And also, the funny thing is, one thing I love about kids, too, is that they just. When they don't like you.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Hell, you. There's nothing better than when there's, like, a piece of in the family, like, some shitty grandpa or something, you know, and everyone's, like, walking on eggshells around him and nobody. You know, everyone's like, just. And a baby's like, I don't like Grandpa Marty.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then it's like, he has to be like, yeah. I mean, that old expression from the mouth of babes or whatever. It's like that there's a reason for. For it. But anyway, we side with the baby. Grow up, dude. He's a kid. Stop being an. Next question. Eldis.

[Caller 3]

Hey. Hi, guys. Elvis, Girl with a problem and huge hit. So if you could do your thing and bump this to the top, I'd really appreciate it. We'll be listening carefully, right to the chase Here I need help finding a way to get to know someone intellectually quicker in like the dating realm. I, you know, the only requirement I have for talking with somebody, dating with them lightly is that they have to be somewhat intelligent and on my level. And you would think living in Boston, working at a really great university, this might not be hard to find. Telling you it is still.

[Neil Brennan]

Unfortunately, a lot of these universities have gone woke, so. Sweetheart, I get it.

[Stavros Halkias]

We get it, sister. They're telling you, you know, you make a conversation, they're like, you know, hey, oh, you have a nephew. Why don't we chop his off and.

[Neil Brennan]

Put him in a dress and that's education.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And then teach him Spanish.

[Ad Read Voice]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, a lot of these people, this university, they want to get rid of English. They want to make the pick the American flag. They want to change to a picture of RuPaul. Go ahead.

[Caller 3]

Confident, but not cocky. I don't think my looks are the problem. And I've done the apps, I've done speed dating. I actually host speed dating events. Very social. I'm involved in the startup community, so meeting young people, but I just cannot find a way.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is the startup community you want to get intellectually stimulating conversation. Is there anybody stupider than tech people in the world? You know, no disrespect to you, you, you have huge tits. You know, you, you aai. And you're a fan. The, you know, fan is not enough to get you to be. But fan plus huge tits that, you know.

[Neil Brennan]

Right this way. Oh, table just opened up. Oh, it's funny. Put huge sits on table number four.

[Stavros Halkias]

I hope it's okay. It's on our most pickeresque veranda view.

[Neil Brennan]

Is that okay with you? 76 degree breeze.

[Stavros Halkias]

Shut up. Shut the up. Some guy who called in six months ago. Hey, my whole family died of cancer.

[Ad Read Voice]

Answer.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Caller 3]

Find a way to meet someone and get to know them intellectually enough to be interested in sleeping with them. I'm kinky. I want to talk. I don't really want, like, I don't care if this is a lifetime thing or not. I really just want to get laid.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Caller 3]

So, yeah, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't think you're going to have any way to find someone intellectually. Like there's no app for that or anything, but figuring out how to get to know them quicker intellectually. Any advice, please. Thank you.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm having a hard time even seeing.

[Neil Brennan]

She is contradicting herself.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Neil Brennan]

Which is I just want to get laid, but I want to Connect with them intellectually. So, like, if you just want to get laid, then go out, you know, like, it's simple.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Neil Brennan]

The intellectual thing, I think the fastest. Well, the. I think taking shit out of the realm of. You're not gonna believe this. Out of the realm of romance.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

If you want to know what he's actually like. Like, I was talking the other day, like, I've taken girls. I would take girls on dates to target. Meaning, like, let's take it out of the, like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes.

[Neil Brennan]

Pageantry. What are. What's this relationship gonna be? Yeah, it's gonna be us sitting on a couch, watching television.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

And eating.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

So, like. And it's like, why don't you show. Because that's not what the relationship is gonna be.

[Stavros Halkias]

The courtship is not really.

[Neil Brennan]

It's not a simulacrum of what the relationship's gonna be. It's like, guys, don't. I have lifelong friendships. And there was not a good opening line.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right.

[Neil Brennan]

It was not a good. Like, we didn't. I didn't woo them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes.

[Neil Brennan]

But. So what I'm saying is try to get it out of that as soon as possible.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's interesting. Yeah. And I think, like, I guess she's trying to really thread the needle here where she's like, look, I'm down.

[Neil Brennan]

Look, I got huge tits.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. She's like, I got big daddies. I. I want them wrapped around some prick, but I don't want the guy to be a total idiot. Yeah. Basically, what she's saying. And that is. You're right. That is a harder needle to thread than, like, you know, just whoever you find attractive pretty quickly or. But the thing is, it's not as hard as finding lifelong, lasting relationships. So I think you just have to increase your. Basically, you just have to, like, increase your standards a little bit. Right. Like.

[Neil Brennan]

Or lower them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, I guess. Lower them, I guess. I guess not even standards. I guess the, you know, admissions process or just, like, your rubric for who you're going to hook up with.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, I think it is hard to find a guy that's interesting, like, whatever, has a good brain and has charisma.

[Eldis]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

So I think that's what she may be looking for.

[Stavros Halkias]

And that also, she doesn't. That you want. Also, that is also cool with exactly the type of. She wants a relationship that's kind of like more than just hooking up, but not quite a relation, like a serious relationship.

[Neil Brennan]

Do you think it's more than just hooking up? Up I think. I think she thinks it's not. I think she thinks it's just hooking up.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay, so she just wants to hook up, but she wants to, like, baseline respect the person. I guess that is hard.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, some say impossible.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, I don't. I don't know the. Like, that there's a secret. I think you just have to do whatever you're currently doing. But be picky. It's just. Just your frustration. I hear your frustration. And, yeah, you're doing something that's harder than just hooking up with someone.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're doing something that's like. And you could even argue it's harder than dating. Seriously. Because if you find somebody who you hit it off with and you're both aligned, a serious relationship is something more people are interested in than, like, no strings attached. But we have a ton in common.

[Neil Brennan]

Because I don't believe she doesn't want a relationship. I think she's open to it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

I can't believe we're having to, like, talk through, like, yeah, this girl with. This girl with huge tits who just wants to hook up. We're like, we gotta help her.

[Stavros Halkias]

Maybe she.

[Eldis]

I don't think she really, like, specifies that she wants a real relationship, but.

[Stavros Halkias]

She'S open to whatever, but she just wants to find a guy. She's maybe more open to casual hookups than most people, but she really just wants to find a guy who she likes intellectually. She hammered intellectually home a lot of times.

[Neil Brennan]

Just keep looking. I don't know.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean. Yeah. It unfortunately comes up to that. It's like. And I would say look outside of your zones. Right. Because that happens a lot where people just, like, you know, dating for convenience.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And especially thinking you think where you are is what you want to find. And I would argue startups and ball. Like, we made fun of it, but it's like tech guys are.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. It's like. It's also the same for people.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And it's the same. And they all think the same way.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Even academics to some degree. It's like, you know, and so you just. It shouldn't be that hard. But also, there's no magic thing. She's like. She was saying she doesn't want to be on dating apps and that kind of thing. It's like, you kind of have to. Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

What do you.

[Stavros Halkias]

In fact, if you look. If I was like. That's happened at the Options, by the way.

[Neil Brennan]

Nobody wants to be on dating apps.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Nobody's, like, dying.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally No, I agree with you. Everyone just sort of. You kind of have to do it.

[Neil Brennan]

I was like, I'm writing an opening line right now.

[Stavros Halkias]

I've been working on Profile all day. Like, I've been on an app and I've hit it off with somebody and I think we even, like, you know, I like, met them in passing, in person. Then we hit it off and we were. The conversation was going good, but she was just like, you say you want. You don't want anything serious, and I want something serious.

[Caller 1]

This.

[Stavros Halkias]

This is fun. But, like. Like, I. You seem cool, but what are we really even doing here? And. And I. I understood what she was coming from. I would say if the opposite happened and a guy was looking for something serious and it was a cute girl who he. Who he hit it off with, she was like, hey, by the way, I see you're looking for something serious. I kind of just want to hook. You seem cool. I kind of want to hook up. No one's going to be mad at that. No one's gonna be like, no one's gonna be like, oh, come on.

[Neil Brennan]

This.

[Stavros Halkias]

Are you serious? Let's. Let's have a formal, you know, Elizabethan courtship or whatever. So I think you just gotta keep pounding the pavement, unfortunately, because, yeah, you're just experiencing. Having standards. Like, that's really what this comes.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah, that's the whole. That's the entirety of the problem, and it's not even really a problem.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, it's.

[Stavros Halkias]

Was there anything? I mean, do you think. Because we also couldn't hear all are we missing anything? Thing. I don't think we have to work on maybe.

[Neil Brennan]

Plus, we riffed so hard on that woke thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally.

[Neil Brennan]

I mean, we broke a sweat on that.

[Stavros Halkias]

We're not missing anything, are we?

[Eldis]

I don't think so.

[Neil Brennan]

Just keep looking. I don't know.

[Eldis]

I think. I think this is the classic, like, I hate when people are, like, talk about, like, you know, the drudgery of dating. They're like, oh, I hate small talk. Let's get to the big stuff. It's like, like, small talk is just like, part of the process. Like, part of the flow of dating. Like, you have. You have to talk about, like, oh, what do you do for work, all that family. And it's like, that's how you, like, warm up. There's other things. There's other things going on while. While, like, you're talking about that. That's like, oh, this guy looks good. He's not like, he's Comporting himself in.

[Stavros Halkias]

A way I like.

[Eldis]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

The pheromones on some. I'm even. You know, even an animalistic way. You're like, I am getting more attracted to this person just by the way they're.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's rituals that you have to go before you.

[Neil Brennan]

They're unavoidable. And it's also like some. It's not about what you're saying. It's not about, like, oh, you live. It's about. It's about the riz. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. The rhythm.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Your charisma.

[Eldis]

Yeah.

[Neil Brennan]

Like, what do you like? It really is not about. It's just about, like, what are you going to do?

[Eldis]

Also, if I can. Could sound like an incel for a.

[Stavros Halkias]

Second, like, Ellis is red pill corn.

[Eldis]

If you're. If you're on. If you're on a date and you know it's just some hot guy talking about how he thinks, like, vampires are cool or something. Is that what you mean by intellectual?

[Stavros Halkias]

Red pill corner.

[Eldis]

It's.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's like part of that, you know, it's like, believe me, I remember this. This in our 20s where it's like, I want a funny guy and she sucks. The guy who says, like, you know. Know who just did. Anchor me. That's a classic. When I was 20, I had that same. You know, I was like, hey, I'm bombing at seafood restaurants.

[Neil Brennan]

Now imagine they're quoting something you wrote.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wow. Losing to a guy's like Rick James.

[Neil Brennan]

Hypothetically. Hypothetically. Holy.

[Stavros Halkias]

If you can consider there's a. Yeah. There's a generation of guys saying they're funny because of your jokes is awesome.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. Huh.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, fuck. So.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. So I don't. So you're right. Like, what they consider intellectual is like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. It's true. So, yeah. Just. Honestly, it's just going to take a little more screening. You have to go through that initial small talk bullshit phase. And then it's like, you know, see? And then on the. On date to maybe start floating a little more highfalutin stuff that you. Whatever. Whatever you think of as intellectual. I don't know. Everyone has their own fucking, you know, standards for that. But that's it.

[Neil Brennan]

And get to normal as soon as possible. Like, we don't have to fucking toss ax. Just like some shit you're never gonna do again.

[Stavros Halkias]

I like that. I like that. Yeah, that's a. That is good.

[Neil Brennan]

But. And like, in. A girl can demand it because it. It seems unromantic if the guy pitches it, but if you're just like, let's just take a walk.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Well, this girl's crazy. This manic pixie dream girl stuff, dude. She's amazing.

[Neil Brennan]

She's like.

[Stavros Halkias]

She wants to go by the river.

[Neil Brennan]

Yeah. And like she. Yeah, she has a ukulele.

[Eldis]

Well, she sucked my dick without me even having to buy dinner.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. These are all pros. Everything you're saying is pro. And I think you'll be fine. You just to want might be a little in your head. Look, I've got a hot in the chamber. We've gone on. We've talked quite a bit. This is. This has been a great episode. Was. It was. Yeah. I love the. The. The ne. We're going to call this the never green. Yeah. This is the never Green episode. It's in the. It's in the can. We're going to record every other one. And wherever this goes, it goes.

[Neil Brennan]

God, Bl. I got nothing to promote or I have a. Or I have a very important new project. No idea.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, this was great though man. Thanks for coming. This was so much fun and I would love. Yeah, the incel discussion is a rich vein, but this is great. Neil. Thank you so much.

[Neil Brennan]

Thanks for having me.

[Stavros Halkias]

I had a blast. He has nothing to promote. Go check out whatever all the stuff he's done. All the stuff he might need.

[Neil Brennan]

My library.

[Stavros Halkias]

The library.

[Neil Brennan]

My link tree.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's right. We'll talk to you guys next time. Bye Bye. Ah, dsw Earth. Place of the humble. Brag here. The shoes are so good. No one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone, that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, they'll definitely give you something to brag about.

[Ad Read Voice]

About.

[Stavros Halkias]

So go ahead. Stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] let us surprise you.