Bonus #175 - Isabel Hagen [PATREON PREVIEW]

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stavvy’s World Bonus #175 – Isabel Hagen [PATREON PREVIEW]

Host: Stavros Halkias
Guest: Isabel Hagen, with co-host Eldis
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode of Stavvy’s World, Stavros Halkias, co-host Eldis, and guest Isabel Hagen respond to a listener voicemail about a struggling friend who keeps making poor relationship choices, specifically continually dating toxic men. The conversation explores friendship boundaries, the challenges of watching friends make mistakes, and the realities of growing up and relationship patterns in your twenties.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caller’s Dilemma — [01:00–03:20]

• Listener Voicemail:
  A concerned friend describes her longtime friend—beautiful, smart, and athletic in youth—who is stuck in a rut post-college, working as a nanny, dating “lame” men, and currently with a house-arrested, drug-dealing boyfriend who cheats on her. The friend believes her self-esteem is low partly due to having herpes, and seeks advice on how to support her.

  • Memorable Description:
    “He is, like, on house arrest, like, an ankle bracelet. And he lives in a tiny home.” [01:42]
    “She also has herpes. And she feels like that, like, limits her.” [03:00]

2. Post-College Plateaus & Self-Esteem Issues — [03:20–04:30]

• Transitioning from College:
  The hosts discuss how some people struggle moving out of the college phase into adulthood.

  • Quote:
    “Some people do have a problem transitioning from the fake college setup of, like, college is life the way, like, going to an amusement park is like... It’s like a fake version of life.” — Jeff [03:35]

• Patterns of Bad Relationships:
  The recurring theme of friends dating harmful partners—how it’s hard to critique their choices without risking the friendship.

3. Handling Friends’ Toxic Relationships — [04:49–07:29]

• Advice on Consoling or Confronting:
  The group reflects on the difficulty of blunt honesty:

  • “If I did, our friendship would be over, or they would just go into full defensive mode…” — Isabel [04:30]
  • “By comforting you, you’re just enabling the behavior.” — Isabel [08:19]

• Limits to Support:
  Emphasis on setting boundaries. Continuing to provide consolation may perpetuate the cycle.

  • Quote:
    “If you want to stop having to deal with this friend… I would sort of just put some distance.” — Isabel [07:43]
    “I’m not holding you anymore if you keep doing this.” — Isabel [04:50]

4. Group Interventions and Ultimatums — [07:29–09:49]

• Group vs. One-on-One Approach:
  Group interventions might be more effective than solo confrontations.

  • Quote:
    “If it’s just you, then they're like, 'well, that friend's just a bad friend.'” — Isabel [07:43]

• Ultimatums and Boundaries:
  The hosts suggest drawing lines about how much you’ll listen to relationship complaints without making friendship conditional on breakups.

  • “We can still be friends, but don’t come here for comforting from this asshole.” — Jeff [11:30]

5. Learning Through Mistakes — [09:49–13:12]

• Growth from Bad Choices:
  Acknowledgment that everyone makes bad relationship decisions in their twenties, and sometimes these experiences are necessary for personal growth.

  • Quote:
    “People have that like, nice one to four year relationship in their early twenties that kind of fucks their life up for a while. And that's also, that can be an important part of your life.” — Jeff [12:28]
    “It's the only way you learn.” — Eldis [15:26]

• Managing Expectations:
  Acceptance that not all friends will thrive, and sometimes you just have to meet people where they are.

  • “It is also—there’s this tendency, you want the people around you to be like, leading these perfect lives. And that's never gonna happen. And you're not gonna be either.” — Isabel [13:04]

6. Accepting Flawed Friends as You Get Older — [13:12–15:22]

• Perspective With Age:
  As people age, minor dramas matter less. Relationships are more about enjoying the present moment together, not “solving” one another.

  • Quote:
    “There's something actually really freeing about getting older because now it's purely vibes, right? Like, I don't even care. Yeah, of course your life's bad… all you want is to feel good because, you know, life sucks dick and most of it is pain and suffering.” — Jeff [13:26]

• Letting Go of Drama:
  Real problems (parental illness, kids, finances, health) replace earlier relationship headaches. The hosts joke about how tragedy just “rolls off your back” in adulthood.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “How's he cheating? … Drugs.” — Caller's summary of the boyfriend, leading to a hilarious riff about maneuvering in a tiny house. [01:59]
• “This is more concrete: Why are you dating a drug dealer on house arrest who cheats on you and lives in a tiny home? That's like four big…” — Eldis [09:06]
• “If she gets pregnant by this guy and you don't drive her to Planned Parenthood, you're a bad friend.” — Jeff [15:33]
• “Sometimes you learn by what you… I feel like every relationship or, you know, even like someone I've been seeing for a while, you kind of learn something about what you want from your person.” — Jeff [16:10]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:00–03:20]: Caller tells the story and outlines the friend’s issues
• [03:20–04:30]: Hosts break down the college-to-adulthood struggle
• [04:49–07:29]: Discussion on drawing emotional boundaries
• [07:29–09:49]: Group interventions, confronting vs. enabling
• [09:49–13:12]: How people grow through relationship mistakes
• [13:12–15:22]: Accepting flaws and prioritizing enjoyment as friendships mature

---

Key Takeaways

• Boundaries are crucial when supporting friends with recurring bad relationships; endless consoling can be enabling.
• Direct honesty can backfire and drive friends further into bad situations; sometimes group interventions are more effective.
• Accepting imperfection: Not all friends will thrive, and as you age, it’s more important to enjoy their company than to fix their problems.
• Personal growth comes from living (and learning from) mistakes—especially when it comes to relationships in your 20s.

---

The episode delivers classic Stavvy’s World warmth and tough-love humor, blending empathy, irreverence, and hard-won perspective on friendship dynamics and early adult struggles.

Transcript

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[Caller]

Hey, I'm calling about a good friend that I have. She and I have known each other since third grade. She's beautiful, smart. She was an athlete in, like, middle high school. We went to college together. But she has really, like, had kind of a hard time getting past that college phase. And she just keeps choosing these guys that are real bad for her. She is having a hard time, like, having a real job. So she nannies, which is cool, but she also, like, you know, has these boyfriends that just suck. I mean, her current guy, she's caught him cheating on her, but he's so lame. He is, like, on house arrest, like, an angle bracelet. And he lives in a tiny home.

[Jeff Lewis]

How's he cheating?

[Caller]

Drugs.

[Jeff Lewis]

He's fucking bringing these bitches into his house, into his tiny home, into his box. He's like. He's like, all right, let me flip up the toilet so we can sit here as a couch. Let's turn the. Yeah, the toilet has to flip down and we can hang out here.

[Co-host Eldis]

Can you dump the bucket when you're done? Yeah.

[Caller]

In a tiny home and he deals drugs and. Which is like, front of you does drugs.

[Jeff Lewis]

But, like, yeah, that is actually the least.

[Caller]

Keeps getting cheated on. Like, dude after dude after dude. I feel like, as her friend, I don't know, like, how to keep consoling her.

[Jeff Lewis]

I think, like, oh, that's the problem.

[Caller]

The sky's the limit as far as, like, she could do whatever she wants to do in life and, okay, find whoever she wants, but she just, like, legitimately Keeps choosing these like terrible, mean guys that treat her terribly. She also. Yeah, she also has herpes. And she feels like that like limits her.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay.

[Caller]

It's not enough rule of dating, but

[Jeff Lewis]

like, you don't have to deal with drug dealers, I don't know, on house arrest.

[Caller]

But what do I do to support her? Thanks. Cool. Bye.

[Jeff Lewis]

Wow. So your friend dates only pieces of shit and she has low self esteem because she has herpes. She's trying to break out of the college thing is what she said.

[Co-host Eldis]

I think she meant the college thing in terms of like just dating assholes.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah. And maybe also just getting out of. I mean, some people do have a problem transitioning from the fake college setup of like, college is life the way like going to amusement park is like. It's like going to Vegas is like actually going to Paris just because you saw that Eiffel Tower. It's like a fake version of life

[Co-host]

feels like this infinite time.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yes. And then you realize quickly, oh, wait, fuck, no it isn't.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Jeff Lewis]

And that's depressing. And people deal with that differently. I get that. But I don't know, this girl sounds like she has some like textbook self esteem issues.

[Co-host Eldis]

Right?

[Jeff Lewis]

Like she's just dating pieces of shit.

[Co-host]

Was she having good conversations with her dad growing up?

[Jeff Lewis]

I honestly don't think she was. If I had to guess, there's no way she was. Yeah. I don't know. Do you. Have you. Have you dealt with like, either you had a bad relationship or you had friends in one? Does this. Does this ring a bell? This ring any bells to you?

[Co-host]

I have friends where I. There's so much I would love to say to them, but if I did, our friendship would be over and. Or they would. They just wouldn't. They'd go into full defensive mode and like, act out even more.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right, right, right.

[Co-host]

I think if she's like calling you and demanding, like being consoled, that's like, you gotta draw, like, you gotta be like, I'm not holding you anymore if you keep doing this. But other than that, I think you gotta just like put some distance between. Cause there's nothing you can.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Nothing you do. Also, though, for this friend, if you have herpes, like, what a dream. You don't have to worry about getting it. It's weird because I'm so afraid of getting it. But also then if I just.

[Jeff Lewis]

If you got it, it would be free. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting perspective on herpes. Yeah, this is interesting because I think you're right in that you Can't. There's only. And we, you know, we've covered some version of this a lot where it's like my friend's dating someone who sucks, right. That's one of like, that's, that's like a social problem, let's say one of the classic problems in a friend group or you know, oftentimes somebody close to us dates a piece of shit, right. That's like that happens to everybody. Or even if they're not a piece of shit in this case, which they are in this case, even if they're just somebody you don't like, how do you handle it? And it's hard because yeah, you can't. Like you said, if I've done that right, where I have just said exactly what I thought and I haven't. It's definitely affected. It's not that we can't be friends anymore, but it's like if you just go too hard with the truth, it does negatively affect how much they trust you or feel like they can just say what they can. The truth to you. And sometimes it kind of, it sort of like hardens their resolve to be in this relate. Like if you're just like this person's a piece of. They're not right for you. What the. You're a idiot for not seeing this. And they're like, I'm prove you wrong. Oh yeah. When you try and get almost too parental with it. Right. Most people rebel against their parents. This is kind of a classic thing that most people do. I don't know if you're familiar with this, but if you, if you try and act like an authority figure, they will sometimes. And, and in fact that's kind of the juice they're getting out of these relationships sometimes is people in their life not approving of it. Like people can get trapped in those weird fucked up psychological circles where you might actually be like this be one of the silver linings is them getting to be like, you don't fucking know me. You know, whatever. This is me and my. You don't tell me about my girl or my guy, whatever. So what do you do here? I mean have you had just like an intervention esque talk with this person?

[Co-host]

I was going to say if you really want to go full steam, you kind of need like a group intervention. Yeah, you can't. Like if it's just you, then they're like, well that friend's just a bad friend or. But it kind of depends on what you want to have happen. Like do you want to stop having to deal with this friend.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right, Right.

[Co-host]

Then I would sort of just put some distance and then maybe the friend will also be like, huh, Like I'm

[Jeff Lewis]

losing those closest to me. What's going on there? That is funny. That is exactly where your head went. How annoying it is for you to deal. To deal with them crying about getting cheated on. But I know what you mean. You can't. If you can't stop it, what's the fucking point if you tell me about it eight times?

[Co-host]

Right?

[Jeff Lewis]

Come on.

[Co-host]

Look, I'll be there for you the first, second, and third time. But then a certain point it's like, well, there's a way to have this stop happening.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And you're not. And by comforting you, you're just enabling the behavior.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Which is fine if you want to keep doing that. But if you don't want to keep doing that, then don't.

[Jeff Lewis]

But how young are they too? She said they're out. Fresh out of college, right?

[Co-host Eldis]

Yeah. I would assume they're in their 20s or something.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Co-host Eldis]

There's. There's an element of this that she's like, oh, yeah, she was awesome in grade and she was an athlete.

[Jeff Lewis]

There's a little bit.

[Co-host Eldis]

It's like, hey, some people just top out and their lives get pretty shitty.

[Jeff Lewis]

Absolutely.

[Co-host Eldis]

Pretty quickly into adulthood or something. You should stop people, supportive people peak for sure because of that. But it's like you are seeing the wholesome child who like, you know, life didn't.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right. This is some used up. I see what you're saying, Eldis. Good point. Good point. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host Eldis]

No, I just mean, I mean like, you know, your lives may just be going.

[Jeff Lewis]

I kind of know what you mean

[Co-host Eldis]

and I don't know. I do. I will say to stop what you're saying. I usually agree with what you're saying about like, it's hard to as a friend be like, what are you doing? Why are you dating this person? I think this is a little more concrete where it's like, why are you dating a drug dealer on house or

[Jeff Lewis]

who cheats on you.

[Co-host Eldis]

Who cheats on you and lives in a tiny home? That's like four big.

[Jeff Lewis]

Hold on. Americans are. We have a big over consumption problem. Problem. All right, let's leave the tiny home out of it.

[Co-host Eldis]

No, kudos to this gentleman for something tells me there aren't ecological reasons that he's living in a 120 square foot house.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah, I think you're probably right, actually, but. No, I see what you mean. This is more of a but then okay, what do you say? You give her an ultimatum. You say you break up with him or we're not. Or don't. Or maybe you don't say we break up with him or we're not friends, but you could say, hey, I've talked to you about this. I will always be your friend. I'll hear to support you. I don't want to hear about this guy ever again because you're not learning your lesson. And every time. And I'll even hear about other guys that cheat on you if you're at least trying something new. But I don't want to hear about this guy because, look, part of being in your 20s is, I mean, I think about conversations I've had with my friends. I'm like, no, dude, this guy's pretty cool. You should still see him. Or, like, that girl's pretty. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's not bad. Like, in your 20s, you do kind of support each other through a series of mistakes, and that's okay, but it's gotta be different mistakes. It can't be the same fucking guy over and over again. And I think. I think that's how you handle it, because you also don't want to say, I think in your 30s or, you know, even 40s, you can be like, hey, you're not a fucking kid. Shut the. I don't want to fuck. If you keep dating this asshole, maybe we shouldn't, like, hang out or whatever. Like. Or even just generally, you'll just distance yourself from someone who's a behavior you don't approve of. Because there's just less time in your life when you're in your 30s or 40s, but in your 20s, don't cut yourself off from them. Because also, like, in abusive relationships, sometimes they want that. They want to, like, take their support system away. Just say, listen, I'm always here for you. We can always go fucking hang out, go to get dinner, go to a movie, talk about anything else in your life. But I. I never want to hear about this fucking guy. If I can't stop him from dating for you from dating him. That's your choice. I've made it clear I don't approve. This is bad for you. We can still be friends, but don't come here for fucking, you know, comfort from this asshole.

[Co-host]

Unless it's breaking up with him, then I'll come for you.

[Jeff Lewis]

You get right?

[Co-host]

You break up with him, we can talk about him. But if it's the same, yeah, I think that's.

[Jeff Lewis]

I actually Think that's kind of fair. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I definitely had a couple friends who were in like some bad relationships where it was like, you know, you give even, even younger and you give them advice, but ultimately it's up to them. But don't, you know, that's all you can really do? And I sort of see what you mean. All this words like she's overrating her friend from like, she might have peaked in college, who knows? Yeah, but I also, see, I mean,

[Co-host Eldis]

I don't mean, I don't mean that to like sound callous or something where it's like, well, her life just sucks. So, you know, what's even the point of maintaining your friendship with her?

[Jeff Lewis]

But you and the people around you are losers and you should get used to that and don't fucking call us ever again, bitch. I serious. Yeah, you've made some great points this time. Eldest, but yeah, this is, this is classic. And this is early 20s too. And by the way, she probably isn't going to break up with him in a reasonable time. This probably is going to fuck up a lot of her life. People have that like, nice one to four year relationship in their early twenties that kind of fucks their life up for a while. And that's also, that can be an important part of your life.

[Co-host]

It is also there's this tendency, you want the people around you to be like, leading these perfect lives. And that's never gonna happen. And you're not gonna be either.

[Jeff Lewis]

Like, right.

[Co-host]

And there is sort of just taking people where they're at and being like, well, can you still enjoy like having a drink with them?

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-host]

And like if she brings up the guy here and there, like. But you get in your head that you're like, you need to solve this person's life, but you don't.

[Jeff Lewis]

That's true. And there's something actually really freeing about getting older because now it's purely vibes, right? Like, I don't even care. Yeah, of course your life's bad. You know, half my friends fucking, you know, everyone's body's breaking down, everyone's fucked up. Or like they're, they're overworked, they have a kid they're really worried about, everyone's stressed and all you find is like, and everything has some like our problems now are real problems. People's fucking parents are dying, people, you know what I mean? Like, kids are fucking, they're having kids, they're scared to make ends meet. They're not the early 20s problems so now all you want is to feel good because, you know, life sucks dick and most of it is pain and suffering.

[Co-host]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis]

And so you're like, if I can be around someone who for two hours, it's nice. I just feel nice. You're like, great, awesome. I don't care what they're up to.

[Co-host]

Is he cheating on you? Okay.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, that sucks.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, the oyster shooters are here. Hell yes. But I'm about. Yeah, you're listening to salsa music. Like, damn, dude, you're getting a divorce, huh? Can I get another Tequila Sunrise bar, barkeep? It is crazy how much like, tragedy just. Just rolls off your back after a certain point in your life. You're like, oh, that sucks. Well, guess we'll keep moving. I mean, even when I hurt my back and I was like, maybe I'm disabled now. Maybe I'm a guy who needs a wheelchair half the time. And I was like, I was just ready to be like, ah, I guess that's it. And it still might be when this cortisone shot wears off, who knows? Knock on wood. It doesn't happen. But yeah, so anyway, whatever, just tell her you don't want to hear about it. Tell her to shove it and to have a good and to focus on boneless night at Buffalo Wild Wings. But yeah, good luck to you and your friend. Hopefully she, you know, gets. Gets that out of her system. And that's the thing too.

[Co-host Eldis]

Like in your 20s, like, everyone just makes bad relationship choices in your 20s,

[Jeff Lewis]

that's the only way you learn.

[Co-host Eldis]

It's like, if this maintains until like your guys mid-30s, of course. But you know, for.

[Jeff Lewis]

If she gets pregnant by this guy and you don't drive her to planned parenthood, you're a bad friend. You know what I mean? Like, but other than that, if she doesn't marry this guy, have a kid with him, it's like, yeah, fuck it. Yeah, it'll fuck. She doesn't co sign for his. For an extension on the tiny house. He wants to build a tiny deck on the tiny house. As long as she doesn't co sign on that, you know, whatever. And I do think, yes, sometimes you learn by what you. I feel like every relationship or, you know, even like someone I've been seeing for a while, you kind of learn something about what you want from your person. You end up with like, I've had a relationship where it's like, half of this shit is bad, but hey, I really liked how they did that. So you just learn about it and then you learn what you really don't want too. So I think she'll learn. House arrest, drug dealer who cheats. She'll learn at some point. Those are three no nos. It's going to take her a while though. Maybe.

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