← Stay Tranquilo
Stay Tranquilo
Beyond the Field: The Mental Fortitude Behind Football ft. Super Bowl Champion Devin McCourty
01:07:54
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Transcript121 lines
- [00:01]
A
Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
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B
Yep.
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A
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
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B
Car selling made easy on Carvana.
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A
Pickup fees may apply. Man, I'm going to shock the world. Like, my goal was to be a first or second round pick. And I would always say that to them and they'd be like, this guy always talking. And when I did it, I was just like, man, like I wanted to do something like this and I did it. Like, I finally arrived. I'm going to get respect. People know. And my first time getting to New England and I do the introductory press conference. First question is, are you aware that you're an unpopular pick? People feel like they drafted a special teams player in the first round.
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B
That's crazy.
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A
And that right there was like a reminder of, yo, you didn't make anything. Like, no one thinks any. No one thinks you're great. Now that same little 17 year old that was doubted, like, now he's just 23 or 24. And that same doubt is there. And that, that sprung my career in the NFL of going to the Pro bowl and being second team all pro as a rookie. And the coolest thing was I had a strength and conditioning coach, which for me was an unbelievable honor. He coached the Cowboys in the 90s when they won their Super Bowls, part of the Patriots when they won their Super Bowls in the early 2000s. And when I got voted to the Pro bowl as a rookie, he comes up to me and he hated rookies. He would be so mean to rookies. And he was like, you know, I've had one other rookie Pro Bowler. He said, you know who that is? I'm like, nah. He was like, Emmett Smith. And that moment for me was like, all right. Like, don't. Don't ever get off this course. Whatever you're doing that's got you here, stay on this to continue to move forward because people notice it and it's. Foreign.
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B
What is going on? We're here in Nashville with Pack. We got Devin McCourty in the building. We're going to talk a little bit of Devin's career, his current path now in. In broadcast and media and every. All the work that he's doing in that space. Philanthropy and his involvement with PAC as an organization, Obviously, we know PAC is doing some amazing work, not only for athletes, but, you know, the community in general and being able to provide an opportunity for these athletes to find an identity outside of sports. Right. I think that's been a common theme amongst a lot of the conversations that we've had. And I think it's. It's a. It's a problem, right? Like, hearing what. What happens to guys outside. You know, whether it's football, baseball, basketball, you know, whether you make it to the pro level. It's high school kids. Right. Like, so many kids, athletes, adults, whatever it may be, have some sort of identity crisis after the fact. So the work that PAC does, I think, is extremely impactful, and we'll definitely touch on that. But before we do, I want to tell your story, you know, from day one and tell us a little bit about how football became a part of your life and just the progression into your career.
- [03:39]
A
Yeah, man, it's a journey. I think I had to learn that along the way of. There's no, like, exact destination that you get to that you turn around and you go, man, I'm here. Like, it's over. Like, it's always just a journey. And, you know, for me growing up, you know, obviously everyone knows I have a twin brother. We both got to play in the NFL, but, like, that was it. We weren't those young kids that when we played, like, obviously we were good in our area, where we were from, people knew that. But, like, as soon as we got into high school, we were like 5, 7ish, 115 pounds. Like, our high school coach still says that when we walk through the doors. Like, so I never thought those guys were playing in the NFL. Like, that wasn't really. Everybody's thought, like, back home where I was from, everybody thought that, like, we always played sports. Like, they always, like, man, those kids gonna be special. But when you actually got to it, it just didn't seem like that. And we always try to, I think now especially I try to look at my journey and different things that happen and see, like, what was the cause and effect of that. And for us, we lost our father when we were young. We were about three years old or turning three when we lost our father. And I think a lot of times you hear that right away. I think people think of just being a statistic or how hard it is to have a single mom. And I look at that now and I'm like, there was a drive in me in sports because, like, I had a connection because everyone I would run into would be like, man, Your last name's McCourty. You wouldn't happen to be related to Cocky McCourty? And I was so young, I was like, man, who the hell is Cocky McCourty? And they're like, oh, Calvin. I was like, oh, that was my dad. He just passed when I was young. And they were like, man, your dad in basketball, he would walk outside and there would be a fence. He would take one step and jump over the fence. And I always look back and I'm like, you don't know if all that stuff's true because the story gets better year after year, you know, but like hearing that and not getting to actually know my father. I knew he loved basketball, I knew he loved sports. So when I got into sports, I always felt like that was our connection. Like it was always sports. So when you get to go through. And I go to high school and I go to St. Joe's Catholic High School in New Jersey. And New Jersey's kind of known for these like big Catholic high schools and the rivalries and like, that's all right. This is it. Like we're going to go here. I'm going to earn a full scholarship, go there strictly freshman football. They're like, you guys are small. My brother wanted to play running back. Didn't really get the ball as freshman. Fast forward sophomore year, still small again, about 135 pounds, but start three games on varsity. So I'm like, oh, here I am. Like they thought I was too small. I would rhyme. Play our rival. Back in the day, if you're from New Jersey, tri state area, you hear the name Brian Toll. He's one of those dudes that in high school he was like one of the guys went to the all American game, played offense and defense. He runs me over in the game, they blow us out. He runs me over like he gained speed as he runs me over. Last game I played on varsity as a sophomore and you know, my high school career didn't get ranked top hundred in the state. Wasn't like this like big time player. And, and my brother actually, you know, he ended up playing running back. He had a game one time where he had three carries, three touchdowns, 130 something yards.
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B
Oh, God damn.
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A
And when we left, he led to school in yards per carry. Like he was pretty, like he was pretty damn good in high school And Rutgers. Our head coach was Greg Shanno. At the time he had twin boys who were like, at that time, maybe six or seven. And he's recruiting us to. And Jay gets an offer in October. So now we're in December. We're going on a visit. Only Jay has an offer at this point. So when we go on this visit, he has an offer to Kent State, Rutgers, and Boston College. Boston College comes to our house. They do the in home visit. Tom o' Brien is probably the first person that like put a huge chip on my shoulder. When Boston College offered my brother, I understood, like, they weren't the first school to offer him and not offer me. And he came and did the in house visit. And when he came, they were like, hey man, we don't really, we don't need you in that meeting. And we grew up.
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B
Oh, wow.
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A
When we moved out of our apartment, we thought we made it. We moved to and we owned our trailer. So we lived in a mobile home. So, like it was small. Like what you watch in TV shows is like what they call trailer. We, we had a double wide. And when they had that meeting, you know, our living room's here. On the other side of that wall is our bedroom. So I'm in the bedroom and I hear the voices as they're having that meeting. And you can imagine as a 17 year old kid and when you grow up as a twin, you're the same everything you do, your mom buys you the same, like every. And it was like the first time in our life where people were like, no, y' all are different. And you know what, he's good and you're not. And for me, that just created this huge chip. And we go down to Rutgers. We're on this official, we're on this visit. The last day, Sunday before we leave, they offer me. So now I have my first division back then it was called 1A, 1A offer to Rutgers. And I have another offer to New Hampshire that we both have. So I get home Sunday and I tell my mom, it's not real. They don't really want me. They want Jay. I don't want to go there. And my mom's like, hey, sometimes that's how it works out. Like, you don't always get to pick how or why, but if you get an opportunity, that's your opportunity to show why. And Monday morning I call coach, hey, I'm coming. I'm committing to school. And Jay's going to Boston College this next weekend. So he, he goes and he does his visit. And we found out now two years ago of when I made that call. It was actually Monday night. I make that call Coach Ciano calls the coach that recruited us on staff, Darren Rizzi, and basically he's cursing them out because the only reason they offered me is because I found this out later. My mom told Shiano, the only way you get Jason is if you offer both. They're a package deal. No way. Never wanted my mom to do that. Of course she did that.
- [10:06]
B
You found that out two years ago.
- [10:08]
A
I found that out two years ago. My brother called a game for the Saints and Darren Rizzi was their special teams coach. They went out to dinner and he was telling them how the head coach called him, cursing them out like, you got the wrong, wrong brother. That's not the one we wanted. And. And my brother ended up committing the next weekend after he went on his visit. So we both ended up going to Rutgers, but there was no plan for me to actually like be a part of it, play do like again. If you're into sports and you know sports, we go there. He's number 25, I'm number 39, right. He's a third string corner. I'm the eighth, seventh or eighth string safety. Like I'm in the back of the room. And I felt that like as soon as I got there I was like, oh, okay. Like I'm not supposed to really be here. Training camp, they would have two groups going at once. I'll be on that end where nobody's watching. You don't watch the film of that. So like that, you know the Boston College getting the Rutgers, like that built up for me of all right, like it's time to go. Like I'm going to prove. So winter break, summer breaks, like we would go home for a weekend and we'd go right back to school and I would work out, I would train and I get drafted. You know, I end up again, we gonna be honest here. I end up being better than my brother. So Shanna, recruit is not your thing. Cause you didn't figure that out, you.
- [11:30]
B
Didn'T get it, right?
- [11:31]
A
Yep, I was better than him at Rutgers. So he was a six round draft pick in 09, 2010, I was a first round draft pick. So like we talk about that I made it moment. I'm like, man. And I used to tell my brother and his now wife when they were dating in college, I was just like, man, I'm gonna shock the world. Like my goal was to be a first or second round pick and I would always say that to them and they'd be like this guy always talking. And when I did it, I was just like, man, like, I wanted to do something like this, and I did it. Like, I finally arrived. I'm gonna get respect. People know. And my first time getting to New England and I do the introductory press conference. First question is, are you aware that you're an unpopular pick? People feel like they drafted a special teams player in the first round.
- [12:18]
B
That's crazy.
- [12:18]
A
And that right there was like a reminder of, yo, you didn't make anything. Like, no one thinks any. No one thinks you're great. Now that same little 17 year old that was doubted, like, now he's just 23 or 24. And that same doubt is there. And that sprung my career in the NFL of going to the Pro bowl and being second team all Pro as a rookie. And the coolest thing was I had a strength and conditioning coach, which for me was an unbelievable honor. He coached the Cowboys in the 90s when they won their Super Bowls, part of the Patriots when they won their Super Bowls in the early 2000s. And when I got voted to the Pro bowl as a rookie, he comes up to me and he hated rookies. He would be so mean to rookies. And he was like, you know, name was Mike Woiser. He was like, you know, I've had one other rookie Pro Bowler. He said, you know who that is? I'm like, nah. He was like, Emmett Smith, if you stay on that path, like, that's what's the path you're going on. I was a Cowboys fan. I was a huge Emmett Smith fan.
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B
Damn, that's sick.
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A
Growing up and that moment for me was like, all right, like, don't. Don't ever get off this course. Whatever you're doing that got you here, stay on this to continue to move forward because people notice it and it's working. And, you know, the rest is history of what I was able to do there in New England, playing with, you know, great, being coached by the greatest of all time, playing with Tom. But, like, the thing that I loved about my time in New England was I really felt like the person and leader I was, grew up there. Like, I was a captain one other time. My senior year in college was the only other time, like, I was a captain of a team. Like, even in high school, we had reps. I was a rep, but I was never a captain, right? And becoming a captain in college and then jumping into the NFL and being a captain 12 out of my 13 years was an unbelievable honor. And, like, the younger version of me never saw myself as that. And that's what kind of what I'M like, most proud of what I think about my journey and what I developed into.
- [14:24]
B
Absolutely. Just like that chip on your shoulder throughout the whole lifetime of your career. Never wanna doubt then that get to the next level, prove that people wrong there. But you get to the next chapter and it's like, there's still doubts there. And then it's chip, chip on your shoulder again. And then, you know, you come into the NFL, they're like, who's this special teams guy we got? And you go and you make the Pro Bowl. Like, talk about just proving everyone wrong at all times. But I want. I want to go back to, you know, what happened with your father. Right. You hear a lot about, like, the importance of having, like, a father figure in your life. Did you have someone, you know through the course of your life that represented themselves as a father figure? I. I come from a single mom as well, and I always look as my mom as like, that person. Right. Because works two jobs, like, provided for me and my brothers. Level of sacrifice that she's made will always be inspiring to me. But I'm curious to hear from you. Like, how is that like being raised by a single mom and having not necessarily, like a true father figure in your life?
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A
Yeah, man. My wife always gets, not gets on me, but she reminds me of, like, my story's not the norm. So again, I believe everything happens for a reason. And like, having a twin saved me and we saved each other because, like, when you lose your father so young, it's a gift and a curse because you don't have memories, you don't have, like, lessons learned and you don't know that you don't have it.
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B
Right.
- [15:53]
A
So you go through life and you just live. And I was just like you. My mom was my rock. Like, she was. Whatever you needed, she did. She was a pit bull. Like, she was hard on you. Like, she was a disciplinarian. Like, smack. You do whatever she needed to do. Nowadays you can't do that kind of stuff probably. But, like, she raised. I had an older brother. I have an older brother who's 15 years older. She raised three boys solo. So, like, she understood I gotta make sure they're in line before they're bigger than me. And that, like, there was no holds bar on what she would do to make sure. So I did. So me and my brother did the opposite of what was around us. So, you know, we had different male figures that none of them did or presented themselves as the things that I wanted out of life at a young Age. I kind of realized that. So it was like, okay, opposite. All right, they do this that way. I'm not doing that. All right? That's what they decide to do. I'm not doing that. So, like, what it created was kind of wild and big dreams of, man, I don't want to just get a job and go to work every day. Like, why can't I go to school and play football? Why can't. So a lot of that was like, why not? And I still remember in high school, our accountant teacher going over the odds of making it and, like, everybody walking out of that, like, that classroom being like, damn. And I remember, like, me and my brother looking at each other and was like, Damn. He said, 3%. Like, shit, why can't we be a part of the 3%? And still it was like a far off dream. But I think that mentality that we had growing up of seeing, like, uncles and cousins on the corner and doing different things and then deciding, like, you know, an uncle that was selling drugs. I had an uncle that was using drugs. Like, my older brother went into the army right out of high school because he didn't like school. So, like, he decided to go the path of the army, like, all of those things. I was like, man, that's not me. I don't want to do that. So I think that let us know that, like, I don't have to see what I want to do. I can see this and know that I don't want to do that. And I can know even though there's no plan or path or, like, guy I can strictly follow, I. I'm okay jumping out and doing it. So when we heard that 3%, I think our mind from a young age was already wrapped around shit. That 3% sound better than 0%. So let's go, like, let's get. That's why I said the gift of having that twin was we pushed each other. If I started going this way, he grabbed me. Nah, we're not doing that. And we're so hard on each other. We'll challenge each other in everything, whether it's sports, whether it's fatherhood, whether it's being a husband. Like, we'll always challenge each other to make sure we stay sharp because there's that kind of, like, true love and bond that, like, you know, as much as I might hate this person and what they're saying to me, I know deep down they want the best for me.
- [18:53]
B
Yeah, no, that's a damn fact. I'm, like, thinking of me and My brothers, like, through that whole process, and it's like, yeah, my mom was my rock. But, like, there's a deeper level of.
- [19:03]
A
Relationship as close if you do have that father figure. And it's not that you didn't want it. Like, we both wanted it. We're both dads now, and we, like, I feel that when I'm with my kids, but I also know, like, without that, it forced us to lean on each other a lot.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
And it's impacted us and made our relationship what it is now.
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B
You guys went through that challenge together, you know, so, like, now it's like, we're in this together, so we're going to get out of this.
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A
Exactly.
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B
And you also bring up something that I think is interesting. Right. Like, people talk about you can learn what to do. Right. And there's value in learning, you know, the right things to do, but there's a ton of value of learning the things not to do.
- [19:40]
A
Yeah, Right.
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B
And, like, this is the type of person I don't want to be.
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A
Might not be ideal, but, like, you could work with.
- [19:46]
B
Exactly. Exactly. And you learn from. Okay, well, at least I know what I don't want to do.
- [19:49]
A
Exactly.
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B
Right?
- [19:50]
A
Yep.
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B
So at least you, boom, you're checking off those boxes. Get that out. And now it's like, all right, now I've shrunk my. My level of vision into all right. This is the path I'm going to go. That 3% really might feel like 80 to you. You know, it's like, yeah, to you, that 3% feels tiny, but to me, that 3% is just enough of the percent that allows me to believe that I can do it.
- [20:10]
A
Yep.
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B
Hell, yeah.
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A
No doubt.
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B
So now, you know, you're in your career, right? You. You had that extremely successful NFL career. Your brother as well. Got to finish your career with. With him. But talk to me a little bit about what that was like. Like being able, like, at the final chapter of your career, being able to share that with your brother.
- [20:29]
A
Yeah, man, I have finished year. I was in finish year eight, so I'm in year nine. He's going in year ten. So it had been flirted with a couple times of when I first was a free agent of possibly going down to Tennessee when he was in Tennessee, had conversations with them when I was a free agent then. That was 2015 season. Then the trade deadline of that year, my coach came up to me, like, man, there's a rumor that, like, we might trade to get your brother. I'm like, damn, don't say that like, don't do that. Like now. You know what I mean?
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B
Like, if you're gonna say it, you.
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A
Gotta make it happen. Tell me when it's at the goal line, right? And fast forward now we get to 2018. Like, we've given up on that thought. Like, even the next times that we were free agents, it wasn't like, man, like, we gotta try to. It was just, man, our careers are already like, you gotta go make your money. I gotta make money. We gotta do what's best. And 2007, going into 2017 season, Tennessee again. My brother loves Nashville, loves the Titans organization. And they drafted him, gave him a shot. Tennessee, Tennessee screwed him. And he went into the last year of his deal supposed to make a certain amount of money. Our agent reached out, was like, hey, we know Jay's on the books for X amount of money. Is there something we could do? What are you guys thinking? Oh, we want him. He's going to be here a week and a half before the draft. They're like, hey, we need you to take a pay cut. We need you to go from 7 mil down to 1.7. And you're going to be our fifth corner, so you're going to have to fight to make the team. So he was like, all right. So I started this year, you're going to bump me to five. I'm going to be in year 10, and you're going to bring in all young guys. You're going to cut me 100% at the end of training camp. So, nah, like, just cut me now. And I've always hated that story because, like, when it hits Jason McCourty released because he refuses to take a pay cut with none of the actual details of. He got. He. He told him to cut me because they said, I'm going to basically cut you later. That's the way the game is. But so he decides, like, all right, I'm in limbo now. Once you get released a week before the draft, nobody, nobody signs you because they want to go through the draft. So then Cleveland comes like, hey, we want to give you a two year deal. And I'm like, ah, my boy. Don't go over there, don't go to.
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B
Cleveland, don't go over there.
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A
Everybody knows, don't. And he was like, what do you want me to do? I got three kids. They need. We need to find a school. We need to find a place to live. Like, I can't keep waiting. I'm like, bro, I hear all that. Yeah, don't Go to Cleveland.
- [23:08]
B
Just don't do Cleveland. You'll figure it out.
- [23:09]
A
Signs of Cleveland. And again, rough time. Has his third child. She has every food allergy known to man. New city. Him and his wife are gone. Going through it. Just a tough year off the field. On the field, he's feeling healthy. Has a heck of a year on the field. End of the year, they go 0, 16, O and 16. Don't win a game. I go, bro, can't go back. Whatever you need to do. And I'm more of the outspoken one. He's more the reserved one, usually. And he does a interview at the end of the year, and he's like, we're not a 016 team. Everybody keeps talking about the talent. It doesn't. It's not the talent. It starts at the top. We're bad at the top. Ownership. Exactly. And I was like, yes, bro, that will get you cut. That's what you need to do. And probably, like, maybe a month, a month and a half later, he gets the call from the gm. Hey, we appreciate you. You're. You're a true professional, the way you came to work, but we got to let you go. We got to release you. And he. He call facetimes me and tells me that. And I'm like, all right, hold on. Like, this is the moment.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
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A
It's an hour. So I text Brian Flores. B. Flo at the time was our defensive coordinator going in 2018 season. I'm like, hey, Jay's about to get released. Like, we gotta get on. And we were missing that veteran kind of player the year before when we lost to the Eagles in the Super Bowl. And he's like, all right, let me. I said, yo, should I just hit up? Should I just talk to Bill Belichick? And he's like, yeah. So I text Bill, hey, Bill, Jay's gonna get released. Two McCourties are better than one. No response. 45 minutes to an hour go by. I go, shit. I guess two McCourties ain't better than one. Bill calls me and he goes, the transaction, they didn't put it through yet. The news just broke. We called down there. We're just going to trade for him since he has a year left on his deal. We're going to trade for him, so. Oh, wow, he's going to be on the patriots. So I FaceTime him. I'm like, yo. He's like, what's up? I was like, hey, welcome to the team. And he's like, bro, what the hell are you talking About. Nobody's talked to our agent, doesn't know. Nobody knows. I'm like, bro, we're about to trade for you. He's like, bro, shut up. I'm like, welcome to the team. We're trading for you. His wife's in the background. Like, that's bullshit. We want. We don't want to get traded. We want to negotiate our contract. And I love it because I was like, this is the G genius of Bill, who, like, knew he played well the year before, but was like, we're gonna get him on this deal.
- [25:51]
B
True.
- [25:52]
A
We get him. And I mean, honestly, the best three years of my career, we win the Super Bowl. Year one, mom has one game to go to all year. When we win a Super bowl against the Rams in Atlanta, my mom's on the field doing angels and confetti. At that time, I had two of my three kids. He had all three of his kids. We did the NFL Network set after the game with, you know, his youngest daughter, my oldest daughter, holding him on the set with us. It was just like an unbelievable time. Led into what we ended up doing later in life. We started our podcast in 2018 when he came double coverage with the McCourty twins. So, like, everything kind of took off for us with that, and it was just awesome. Like, every Friday, we would go to each other's house, we carpool to the game. Like, we were just living. The 10 year old kids who played football who used to go outside before games and would go over our plays, we'd throw to each other. We'd be doing tall sweeps going over our plays. Like, those kids got to do that at the highest level and won a championship. I mean, 2018 was just a very special year.
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B
Yeah, you can't even, like, write that story at all. It's insane at all. And your mom obviously was in heaven.
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A
And that every minute of it.
- [27:10]
B
Yeah, like, to be. To be in that.
- [27:12]
A
We took 30 people to the super bowl that year. Like, usually. Usually the Super Bowl. Like, you want. We ain't supposed to say this, but you want to get your tickets, you want to try to sell somebody's tickets? And we go. And I'm like, now this is my fifth super bowl appearance. So I'm like, jay, this how we going to do it? He's like, nah, bro. Whoever want to go, they can go. I go, hey, man. Like, that ain't how this work. Like, whoever want to go, we're going to lose a lot of money. Yeah. And like, it was so cool because I was like, you know what? You're right. Like, this is a moment in time. It's like, man, we have never going to get family friends, like college buddies, high school buddies all went out to the game, which was, I mean, unbelievable.
- [27:53]
B
That's like you brought up B flow. I'm actually curious to hear, you know, your perspective on B flow. He's obviously had. He got his head coaching stint, you know, with Miami. Obviously those things didn't work out there, and there was a lot of dynamics, I guess you could say, during his era there. But, like, what's your perspective on him? Like, if you. You got to be with him. He has mixed reputations out there in the league, but would love to hear what your kind of perspective is on.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah, man, I'm huge on, like, who you present yourself to me and who I see you from. Whatever amount of time I get to spend with you, I'm holding you to that. And for me, like, we talked about father figures and different people growing up. I loved being around Flo because I saw the version of what I wanted to become in life someday. Like, I've spent Thanksgiving at Flo's house, and Flo has two. He has twin brothers, and I've met his twin brother, and he has a young. His youngest brother who I met who is on the spectrum, and I got to know him, and every time I would talk to Flo, he'd be like, yo, Chris is still talking about you. Of just hanging out with his brother Chris and his wife Jenny, of having players in that space and living that. And Flo's not much older than me, and for me, it was just, all right, man, here's a minority guy in coaching with a wife and kids, family oriented, doing it. And we had a really, like, special relationship for the standpoint of I was a corner and I got moved to safety, and he was doing special teams and he came over to defense and he was a safety. And our group was just special. When he coached us, we had veteran players, Pat, Chung, Duron, Harmon, myself, and we all got along well. And Flo changed some of the ways we did things. We only met as a unit, no individual meetings. He was big on, if I talk to you, I want everybody to hear what I'm saying, so nothing gets changed or this person said that. Like, I want everyone to know what your role is, what your role is and what we expect. So if I got to pull you out, everybody knows because we know what the expectation. And I absolutely love that. I think that's what especially a team sport like, when you're in a competitive room where we're all fighting for two or three spots on the field, I don't want when you meet with so and so to be like, hey, man, like, you gotta do this and then you should be playing. But, nah, like, let's all be open and honest. So I love that. And that's the person that, like, I got to see. When my contract was expiring off my rookie deal, I remember Flo called me and was like, hey, man, I just want to meet up. Like, it's setting in. In, like, two weeks, you might be on another team and, like, I might never coach you again and we won't have this. And I was like, yeah, man. And he was like, do you want to meet somewhere else? Because I know. I was like, nah, man. Like, I was there five years. I'm still on the contract until two more weeks. I'm coming into the building. And we just chopped it up. And we talked about not just coming back to New England, but like, my family, my mom, what I was moving towards. And he was like, man, like, whatever you gotta do. Like, I understand that. Like, that to me meant the world of, like, this is not just me and a coach. This is me as somebody that got to know me as a person talking about what's next, how to best do it. So I always, like, I still text flow. I went out and interviewed Justin Jefferson for NBC last year, chopping it up with Flo. We got to talk. So he's always going to be like, one of my favorite coaches, but just a good friend for me for sure.
- [31:29]
B
And, I mean, he's had success pretty much everywhere he's gone. You know, didn't work out with the fins, but from a defense perspective, and.
- [31:36]
A
That'S what coaching is like in our business. It might not work out, right. Andy Reid was in Philadelphia for years. We took him to a Super Bowl. They wanted him gone, right? Like, oh, man, he doesn't win the big one.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah.
- [31:48]
A
Oh, he doesn't. And he goes to Kansas City and it doesn't stop the Eagles, right? Two super bowl since. So it's just. That's how things work. And I understand, like, there's other people's experiences with flow that to me, are justified in their experience and what they say about them. Like, that is how they feel, and that's what. So I fully understand that. I don't sit here and be like, man, they're wrong. He's great. For me, he was awesome from a personal level like, that, for me, And I fully understand that.
- [32:16]
B
I'm curious, like, what's your. What's your thoughts? Like, a lot of coordinators become head coaches, right? That's kind of the trajectory. Why do you think some have more difficulty in translating into that head coach role? What do you think that dynamic is.
- [32:31]
A
Man, it's hard because it changes up, like, what you do day to day. Like, you go from. You go from this. This coach who gets to have these kind of unique and dynamic relationship with your guys that you only get to worry about, like, your guys on defense and, like, your special groups, and you get to know them, and you get. Then you get the whole team, and everybody's like, oh, but it's not the whole team aspect of it. It's everything outside of football. It's all of the media things you got to go to is a. Yeah. Were drawing up the program for the. The gala that we're having. What do you. It's like the gala, bro. Like, I want to. I want to coach football. And obviously close with Jerod Mayo, and I remember last year getting to see him at the owners meetings, and we're in Orlando, and he was like, bro, I barely get to do ball. Like, I'm. I'm staying up late to watch film because every time I'm trying to drag into something else, I'm getting pulled here. Yoda, the organization is going over this. Like, we need you here. We need your input there. So I think that's the biggest transition for all of these coaches. And depending on where you're at, you might not get pulled up into some of those meetings that your head coach is in and going through, which I thought was unique, where I think Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn kind of talked about Dan Campbell mentoring them in a way of, like, look, this is how this is going to be. Hey, check this out. Kind of giving them an inside look. And so much is fixated on you winning right now. They're like, you don't. Sometimes head coaches don't have time to, like, mentor that coordinator because, like, you're so focused on winning. So I think that's the hardest aspect of taking care of everything outside of football. When all you. A lot of those guys, man, they just want to coach ball. They want to win. And there's so many other things. And I think that's why you need to make sure you get leaders of men and of people and organizations. And we get so used to saying leaders of men, but nowadays it's not. It's leaders of people. You have women all throughout sports. And I think we've seen that's good for sports. Like, we need more women, we need more input on how to run things, how to do things a better way. So I think that's extremely hard. From my experience of playing and then now being in the media aspect of getting to go to teams and talk to coaches and talk and see different lenses. You see how much head coaches get pulled in so many different directions.
- [34:58]
B
That's a crazy way to think about. You don't really realize how much level, you know, complexity that goes into the role as a head coach. But you talk about your media. I want to get into that whole world. Right? So you and your brother start the podcast when you're there in New England. And it's evolved into now both of you being on tv. Tell me a little bit about, like, what was that, that first feeling getting behind the mic and. And you know, you're a football player first, but now you're kind of putting yourself in this different kind of personality and different light.
- [35:28]
A
Yeah, man, I gotta give my brother the flowers. Like he, he jump started it. Even, even with our podcast, like, we're different and how we do things. Like, both as players knew a lot about what was going on. Because I played safety more, I felt in charge. Like, man, we're gonna do this, that blah, blah. And Jay was. Cause he was a corner, he would know everything. But you get used to checking with your safety because they got the View TV kind of world. Jay wants to dot every I, cross every T. He wants to have pages of notes. And I'm like, hey, bro, like, I'm all with preparation. I was in the New England tree. Like, it's all about preparation. But I'm like, you doing too much. Like, we gotta, we gotta be ready. So like when we did our podcast, he would do a lot of like, yo, did you jump in and run a show and add stuff? I was like, nah, checked it out. But like, we good. But you didn't add anything. And I'm like, yo, don't worry, we're good. So we always had that kind of like back and forth.
- [36:22]
B
I get it.
- [36:22]
A
And he retires a year before me and goes into the unknown. And we have both went to the NFL broadcast boot camp. He got rated higher. Like all the NFL Network or NFL people were like, jay was the highest rated. I think they give him a little edge. Cause he went and worked for NFL Network. So he hit the double whammy. But they love him over there. So they always talk about how great he is. And it all stemmed from when we did the radio calling the game on the radio. I went first. So the mistake I made, I text him like, hey, don't do this, don't do that, and you'll crush it. So his was better than mine because I gave him the feedback. Of course.
- [37:00]
B
Yeah, yeah, he done it.
- [37:01]
A
But then when he goes to Good Morning Football and, you know, his first auditions, I'm in la, so the time difference, I'm waking up early. I'm watching it because, like, this is new now. I know I'm going back to football, but I'm watching my brother, like, make this scary transition that we've been dreading since day one. And they tell you about it, and he does it, and I'm like, man, all right. And I remember watching later in the season, and I'm like, okay. Like, he getting better at this. And I remember Facetiming him while he was in London. And they were in London for the week doing the show, and I was just like, hey, bro, how you doing? Like, we all talk about this and we're in a ton of group chats together, but I'm checking to really see how are you doing now? Has been some time. You could actually miss being out there. I'm still out there. You're watching. And he just tours me of the room. He's in this big suite in London. He was like, I'm living life. This is awesome. And that hit me hard because I was like, we were struggling in New England a little bit. The seasons weren't going the way it used to be, and I felt like I was turning into the point where I was just holding on and seeing him and being like, okay, like, he's killing this. And then in March, when I retired. No, right before I retired, I did the show with him for a week. They allowed me to come on and host for a week. And that's when I was just like, oh, shit, he's good. Like, we're in there and we're going and we're. And he's laying out to go into the breaks, and. And he's jumping. He's jumping on the teleprompter. He's reading the teleprompter. We come and I'm like, oh, like, yo, you've been working on your craft. And that, for me, as a brother, was so cool to see this guy who did something just like me for 13 years, all in. That's what everything's about. And now he's running his own segment where he's got the teleprompter moving, and he's doing all of these different things. And I'm like, yo, man, he's really crushing this. This is awesome to see. And that inspired me more than anything. And that's when I knew that year I was like, man, I'm done. I want to get into this, too. I'm watching him. He loves it. I think I'll love it, too. And as we get into the next topic of, like, when I retired my last year, during the bye week, I went to CBS NFL Today. Didn't ask the Patriots for permission. I said, I'm gonna ask for forgiveness later. Oh, wow. Cause you realize once you get older and you got more retired friends than current playing friends is, once it's over, it's over. Like, there is no tapping back into the team. Like, you're on your own. The team's still worried about winning with their new players. So I said, I think I might want to do this. I gotta just go. So I did that. Season ended. I went back to NFL Today. I went to NFL Network and did two days, Saturday and Sunday with NFL Network on their playoff coverage. Then I went auditioned for Fox. So I was like, all right, bro, sit back, wait for these job opportunities. Roll in, retire. March. March goes by, April goes by. Now we're in the beginning of May, and I'm like, damn. I thought I was gonna get a job. Like, I'm like, somebody, anybody. And I'll never forget my guy at NBC that I met at the bootcamp, Fred Gudelli. Fred calls me and he goes, hey, what are you thinking? I heard there's a lot with cbs. Like, just don't sign anything until you hear back from me. And I'm like, fred, man, like, it's being competitive. Like, I ain't have nothing that I wanted at the time, but the fact that he thought that I did, I was just like, all right. Like, I'll try to wait for you. And I get off and I tell my wife. I'm like, man, NBC called, and I had did an audition. I had did an interview with NBC. They were starting their Big Ten coverage, a traveling road joint. And I was just like, it's not ideal. Like, we got young kids. I'll be traveling every weekend. I said, but NBC, like, I would take this. And I get a call from my agent, and he was like, hey, we got an interview. I had went to. I was going to New York to do CBS Sports. They were doing a draft preview. I went, and this was the Second year I was doing this, so I went to do. And he was like, before you leave, we're going to go to New York City, and you're going to go meet with the executive producer at NBC Sports, Sam Flood. And I'm like, okay. Like, what's this about? He was like, they said, maybe NFL. And I'm like, but they only have Sunday night Football night in America. The pregame, man, we go supposed to have an hour lunch. It goes for two hours, and a week later, jump on a zoom. And they're like, we want to offer you the job at football night in America, and we want to add your chair because we think you can add to our show. And I'm like, oh, okay. They're like, so. And I love Sam. And he's like, we're the number one raider. He's selling me. I'm on the other end. Like, sam, you ain't gotta sell. You ain't gotta sell me. Send a contract.
- [42:14]
B
Where do I sign?
- [42:15]
A
Where do I sign, man? It's been unbelievable because I just did. I didn't imagine straight out I was going to that. And my wife will tell you it was some of the hardest parts of our marriage was we were still living up in Massachusetts, got the job, had a Hall of Fame game in August. Like, there's no training summit you go.
- [42:37]
B
To just throw you in.
- [42:39]
A
You just go in. So my anxiety's building up. We're packing up our house in Foxborough. We sold it. We gotta go back to Jersey. But our house in Jersey that we're moving back into, we're actually building a house around the corner. So we had all of these things going on. And my wife said, my wife's a rock star because she does all that I'm not big into. Like, I don't care about a lot of, like, the how. Like, man, we did well in life and we got a house. I grew up in an apartment in a. In a mobile home. Yeah. And we got this big old house. Like, whatever you do is going to be fine. I'm going with it. So I'm not as into it, but I'm now freaking out because I'm like, I got to worry about this damn job. I don't want to mess it up. So it was just so much, like, back and forth and stress. And I still remember I go out to Canton and I do well that first time out, and I'm just, like, so excited. I take a shot at Jay opening. Like, my opening thing. Like, welcome Devin McCourty football night. In America. I was like, man, we're at the hall of Fame game. My brother, when he was a six year old draft pick, so he played a lot of snaps in this game back then because he wasn't that good. And just the rush I got, I walked away. And the next day I had to go to New England. I went to one of their practices and I was talking to Bill and I was just like, man, that rush was so cool. And I didn't think I would ever get that again from playing and doing what I did as a player. And I was like, I really like this. I think I'm going to do this for a long time. And that feeling was a stamp of like, hey, man, you made the right decision retiring, because you never know when you first retire, right?
- [44:15]
B
Yeah. And we can circle back to that kind of component of like post retirement and post career. But when did it hit you that you're like, damn, now, Now I'm a TV guy. Like, when was it? Was it like that first moment? You're like, you see the kid? Because it's like, you got the cameras, you know, you got the lights, you got all these things mic'd up, you.
- [44:32]
A
Know, that stuff didn't bother me. Like, that was cool. My realest moment of like, man, like, you're really just TV guy now was this year, Jerod Mayo gets fired. And him and Matthew Slater are like two of my closest friends that I played with. And I gotta go and talk about it now. And the crafts. I played up there for 13 years. I got to know the crafts really well. They invested in like, Sickle Cell and different things like that through what I was doing with Sickle Cell and my campaign. And I'm like, now I gotta go talk about these condo. Like, they fired him. And like, this is. And going and talking about that and talking to the producers before we go on air to try to. And like, I'm texting them, hey, tell me if there's anything that is important to y'. All. Just got fired and I'm texting about tv. And it's just like, that was the first time where I was just like, man, like, this is the one thing that I was like dreading doing of feeling like, man, you're in it. But also I always look at it as like, I want to be an advocate to what most fans sit and they think about of like, man, fire him. They didn't win. Of like, nah, this is a human being.
- [45:47]
B
Exactly.
- [45:47]
A
This is a guy with a family. This is a guy just like, how anybody else gets fired from their job, how much that sucks. It's the same thing here. It's sucks. I'm not telling you to feel bad. They make a lot of money, of course. I'm just telling you, like, hey, just think about that before you make any crazy comment or anything like that. So as much as hard as that was, I also felt in that moment, I want to be in this seat. I want to be able to talk about that. I want to be able to give insight into these things, because I do. I think I'm in a position where I can do that. And as hard as that was, I also enjoyed being able to be in that role and felt honored and blessed to be able to do that.
- [46:25]
B
Well, it's. It's good because you have that refreshing kind of perspective on it as a guy that has a direct relationship and connection to these guys that you're like, I'm not going to put you in the negative. And as far as, like, a media perspective, right, because fans are always going to have some sort of thoughts on it. But it's like, what do you really know at the end of the day? Because you have no connection. Whereas you. It's like, I'm not just a media guy. I played with these guys. I was in the trenches with these guys. I'm going to make sure that I understand what the fans want to hear and what, you know, TV viewers want to hear, but I'm also going to protect my guy.
- [46:59]
A
Yeah, that. That's what I've learned is so cool about now. As a media member, I'm a former player, a huge fan, and, like, I'm an advocate. I put all of those things together because when I retired and I got into this, my fandom came back, like, I was so used to as a player being like, man, I hope Buffalo always loses. I hope the jets always lose, and I hope the Dolphins always lose. No matter who they play, I want them to lose. So I don't like anybody on Buffalo Jets. Like, I don't like anybody in Pittsburgh. I don't like anybody in Baltimore. Like, you become that because, you know they're stopping you from getting to the Super Bowl. Like, we were always in that position to get a game away from the super bowl or in the Super Bowl. So I always wanted them to do poorly so we could get in the Super Bowl. And then when I was done, I'm like, man, Kyle Hamilton and Baltimore, it's a bad boy. This is. I fell back in love with just the game of football. Which is super authentic. So when I go and talk sometimes if I'm on TV and I get to talk about a player or a play or a coach, I'm a fan talking to you. Because, like, not every player I talk about is a friend of mine or I gotten to know. I'm telling you, I'm turning on the film, and I'm like, oh, this dude is. I love this. And I hope when I'm doing that people, man, he loves the game.
- [48:22]
B
It shows, for sure.
- [48:24]
A
That's the part I love that you get to put on all these different hats and talk about football.
- [48:29]
B
No, it's sick. That's sick. Now you. I mean, I watch you on tv on NBC all the time, and you could tell, like, there's just a different caliber coming from, like, a person, from you. Not to take anything away from other guys on tv, but it's like, just this level of understanding. Right. Like, me as a fan, I'm listening in with the intent of, like, I want to learn, too. You know, I don't want to just be entertained.
- [48:50]
A
Like, exactly.
- [48:50]
B
I want to learn. Like, obviously there's. There's importance to entertainment. Right. But there's also a ton of value and being able to sit down and digest and, like, let me learn something here.
- [49:03]
A
Yep. Every time we go on tv, the top guys at NBC, they go, teach me something. Entertain me. Don't just teach me something without entertainment. And don't just entertain. Like, that's all they tell us. And it is, like, you said that it's a fine line. And when somebody hits it in our world, the people we watch and we talking about it before we jumped on, it's tnt, it's Shaq. Exactly. It's Kenny, it's Barkley, it's ej. We all want to create that because we're highly entertained and we still learn the game of basketball. That's what we're all chasing.
- [49:38]
B
You look back when you go back to school, right? Those teachers that were just boring, you're like, bro, I'm not learning anything right now. But that teacher that just somehow was able to make learning fun made me remember everything. I had a World War II class in high school. That was my favorite class. I liked history, but God damn, you can ask me anything about World War II now. Because he incorporated Saving Private Ryan in it. He was adding these elements of, like, the brothers and then bringing it into a history lesson. I'm like, I've never been more engaged in a class like that. So it's very, very similar. In that world.
- [50:11]
A
And coaching is the same thing. I tell people that all the time. Coaching is not just the X's and O's. You can't just sit up there and bore people. You got to relate to guys. You got to know where to meet them, how to bring them in. So it's definitely. It's a unique thing, and it's a unique gift to have when somebody has that as a teacher.
- [50:28]
B
Absolutely. Well, you clearly found your identity post football, but a lot of guys struggle with that, you know, post, post. Anything right when you're starting that new chapter, devoted so much time and energy into this specific space, and then now it's taken away from you, whether that's through retirement, whether that's you don't get signed or injury or whatever that may be. What would be your level of advice for someone that's struggling to find that identity post career?
- [50:55]
A
Pro athlete community? Man, it is so interesting and feel very blessed through Pac and through knowing different people. We got to have a conversation. I got to talk to Candace Parker, and I know the stories of, like, NFL players. And she said to me, she was like, you don't understand of, like, women's sports is even different. She said, we go in with the thought of, we're going to have to have a job. We're going to have to do these different things. We don't have the NFL to bank on. Like, that's a totally different environment. And I was just like, damn, not even a thought. Not a thought. Like, even if we play five years pro, we gotta get a job. Like, we're not making that kind of money. And now I look and I try to tell guys that because I'm like, there's levels. But you just said, everybody's transitioning from something in all walks of life. So I tell guys, like, for one, give yourself grace. Don't sit there and be the guy that was the person who they had to be to be elite in football. We had to give ourselves no grace. We had to be like, man, my step's not straight. I'm a little. I'm a little. I'm 45 degrees. No, you need grace in this transition. I told guys, the first pack I came back and spoke to. I told guys, sometimes you wake up and everybody tells you your day needs to be full. It needs to be packed. Sometimes you need to have a day or a morning or a morning or afternoon where it's set just on you. Whatever you love to do, whatever it is to bring you back and kind of ground you and put you back in your. You got to have that. Because we've been like this the whole time on go do this, do that. Sometimes you gotta. You gotta settle back. And the second thing I tell guys is we gotta keep just chugging along. We gotta keep shooting our shot. When you get to do football and all, you master it, right? Because when you think about it, you start at whatever, high school, 10 years old, like I did. I did it till I was 35. Like, that's mastering a skill. You do it for that long. So when we jump into the next thing, we're like, we're masters. I got a master whatever. I do what? How? Like that CEO that's a billionaire. He's been trying to be that for the last 25 years. Exactly. He's been at the worst. Worst level of job ever. He's failed. Like, I know I've met different guys who do really well now, and they've told me, like, just downstairs today, guys saying, hey, I went public. I was worth $55 million. A year later, it all went to zero. Like, that's ultimate failure. Yeah, seriously. Still now he's an owner in sports.
- [53:46]
B
League figures it out.
- [53:48]
A
Exactly. And I try to tell guys, man, as you give yourself grace, man, don't be scared to just keep hopping in things, keep trying them out, keep doing those things, keep failing and getting back up, because that's okay. Like, it's okay that you might retire at 29 and you don't, and you're not a master at 32 of whatever you do next. Yeah, like, that's okay. 37 years old and. And when I'm around football players, I'm like, the oldest dude ever. You get in other different arenas. People are like, man, you're so young. It's true.
- [54:18]
B
It's all perspective.
- [54:19]
A
Look at all these things you've done. You're so young. Like, Chip always tells us that. He's like, man, I became my. I got my dream job at 37. You guys are talking about being done with work at 34, 35. Like, that's not normal. So I just try to bring that reality to guys before we ever dig into. Do you want to do private equity, venture capital? You want what pathway of job success? Before we get to any of that, like, let's work on you. Let's figure out what you need to do to be the right mindset going forward and what you need to do to provide for a family or whoever you have that's leaned on you throughout your career. How do you continue to be that kind of leg on the table for those people, Because I know that's important to you. So how do we continue to be that person? Because, like, Teal Henderson, who's a big part of pack, she always says, if you try to save everybody and you drown, it doesn't help because everybody's still going to drown. So it's making sure we have the right mindset before we really go into anything else for sure.
- [55:23]
B
It's like, you know, people, I'm. I'm one of these people, too. You know, you so focus on this, like, perfectionist, right? Everything's got to be perfect before I do this.
- [55:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, right?
- [55:33]
B
When you do that, it'll never get done. You know, it's like, all right, what can I do now to attack today? Be the best version of myself today so that tomorrow I've set myself up for that much more success. And you just start stacking those days as days of just improvement, right? And they're not going to be perfect. They're going to be far from perfect. And you might take some steps back in that process, but as long as that steady progression is happening and you're putting the work every day doing the things that you can control, the winds are going to start to show. But when you get stuck in that, like, perfectionist mindset, you start paralyzing yourself, man.
- [56:08]
A
As you said, it made me think back to 2013. Matthew Slater. I got to play throughout all 13 years of Matthew Slater. He's one of the greatest people leaders I've ever been around. And he was always on me about going to Bible study on the Patriots. Like, amen. Still haven't seen you. And I had that mindset of, man, right now. I still be going out. I'm still having fun. Like, I'll get there. Like, when I'm ready, I'm gonna pull up my Bible study. And one day in the off season, I go and one of my teammates, Nate Solder, is in there and is known, but he's talking about how he was diagnosed with cancer and then his son ended up getting diagnosed, and he talked about that. And our chaplain came in and talked about there's no perfect time. There's no, like, oh, I'm good. I got everything figured out. And again, it's the typical story. Like, man, I wasn't even go to chapel today. And I go and y' all talking directly to me and the impact it now has. And that for me was big because then I was chapel every week and doing all those different things and it did. It changed how I viewed things, and I still wasn't perfect like nobody. We never get to that. But it made me now walk this line of, hey, man, I'm in. Like, I came here and I just got to be better than I was the day before. And if I feel like you just said, if I slip tomorrow and I fall back five days and I'm like, I'm where I'm at where I was five days ago. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. I'm back to it. Okay. But it's a process. It's a journey, and that was big for me in 13 of figuring that out because I had a really rough year in 2011 and trying to climb out of that in 2013. I got second team all pro again as a safety now. So now this was one. All right, Second team all pro as a corner and as a safety, put my name next to Ronnie Lott and Rod Woodson, which levels to this. Like, they here I'm a little lower. But the fact that, like, in the same sentence was like, only these three players have done that. I was just like, damn, that's pretty cool. And it was just that mindset of figuring out, like, man, it's okay where you're at now, where you're at, how do you go? And I needed that at that point in my life, and it stuck with me ever since.
- [58:26]
B
That's awesome. Well, before we wrap it up, I want to just get your thoughts. Obviously, you're on the board there with pac, right? What excites you most about where Pack is heading and what the work that they're doing.
- [58:39]
A
What I love about PAC right now is when I got introduced to this, it was right after it was right Caleb was leaving the Dolphins, which PAC started kind of as like an NFL transition program. It was. You go to events, it's all NFL, and now, like, we're heavy. Like, we're all pro. This is pro. It's not just NFL. So it's the expansion. It's now going out there and having conversations with people and talking about the wnba, the NBA, FIFA, the NHL. It's bringing this because for so long, we get stuck in our sport. Like, for me in football, it was just like, these are the problems in football. And you realize, like, man, these are the problems in sports. Like, this is a problem in pro sports everywhere. And I just love that. And now being the board co chair with my brother, we go and we have these conversations. Like, I go and I'm having a conversation with A friend. And I've gotten to know him from my time in New England. He's a billionaire. And I'm like, man, I got to get you down to one of these business combines. I got to get you talking on a panel. Your story will ignite so many different guys. And I say that now. When I tell my friend that, who's a CEO, I'm telling them that because it'll help the guys. I'm also telling them that because the times we've gone to dinner, he's like, man, like, it's crazy to say this, but I love when I go to hire somebody and their resume says college lacrosse, college football, college field hockey. He was like, I love seeing that. Or I love seeing, hey, I did pro soccer. I was a. She was a pro soccer player for. He was like, I love that. He's like, because I know what I'm getting. I know there's no sick days. I know there's no this hurts. I can't come in today. He's. I know I'm gonna have to send that person home. So when I think about pro athlete community, I'm like, this is a two way street now. Like, I'm connecting people to help our community, but our community's going to go back and help them too. So, man, it's been awesome. I didn't think I would join another board. I've been my time in New England, I met a lot of different people that do great work in nonprofit spaces and I volunteered and helped out on their board and I got to see what it means to be a board member. And I was like, man, I got three kids at home. No more boards. And when I talked to Chip and talked to Caleb, I was like, man, this is who I am. I'm passionate about this. Like, I've lived it. I gotta help. I gotta help this grow. And it's been unbelievable to be with them and go to different events and have conversations, zooms with different people as we try to grow this man. I'm just happy to be kind of on the floor, the cutting room floor of growing pro athlete community and everything. Pat can be 100%.
- [61:20]
B
And this is my second pack event now. We did the one in Miami and now this one. You could just tell the level of selflessness that everybody involved has. Like, it. It ain't about it. It ain't about the individual.
- [61:32]
A
Yes.
- [61:32]
B
It's about everybody else here. And everyone is here to just. What do you need?
- [61:37]
A
Yep. You just want to pour into people that.
- [61:39]
B
That is it. And when you have that kind of, like, as the backbone, like, sky's the limit and there is a need for this and, and it's, you know, first I. I played baseball up until high school. Tore my rotator cuff, and I was like, I'm done. What am I going to do here? Right? But I struggled with identity, and all my boys that I played high school baseball with and sports with all struggled with it. And they still to this day are like. Like, sports is all they know. So they feel like they got to do something in sports where it's like, I get it. Like, you're passionate about it, you lived it, you breathed it. But you might have a bigger purpose than that, right? And that was your avenue to get out. You don't got to be so stuck in it. And, like, it comes to, like, what you were mentioning, like, just go try different things.
- [62:22]
A
Go experience.
- [62:23]
B
Experience stuff. See what it is that you don't. Like. See what it is that you do.
- [62:27]
A
Like, you don't know.
- [62:28]
B
And from there, you can at least start figuring things out. I'm. I'm, you know, I look back at my journey. I'm very grateful for taking that leap of faith, right? Like, I got my degree in. In exercise science out of college. Kind of was following that path of, like, I did sports, I got to stay in sports, and I'm still around sports. But, like, in my way, you know, the way that I feel, like, this is what I was meant to do, what I was called to do, like, share stories, be. Be kind of a voice of reason, provide a positive message to people. But it took some deep soul searching to figure that out.
- [63:02]
A
And exactly what you just said is what I want all the former players to think about, right? Like, it took soul search and it took time. I did this because I thought that. And. And then I was here. And I, like, that's your Jo. That's going to be your testimony someday when you get up there, you're going to go and you're going to speak it. You're going to tell people. And I've been big on me and my wife, we went through a really challenging time. We lost our third child. Would have been our third child. We lost. Our daughter was a stillborn. And when I was in the middle of that, and it was crazy because that happened. We found out the 23rd, so my wife had to give birth to her on the 24th. The 25th was George Floyd. This is all 2020, and we're all in a hospital room and all this happens. So, like, When I get the news we're all on zooms and stuff with our team. I wasn't in a mental space to be like, man, I'm a call coach and tell them I'm not going to be on because we're dealing with this. It wasn't real to me yet. So I didn't even have the words to be like, hey, we just lost our daughter. That couldn't even come out of your mouth. And my wife is looking at me like, you really about to jump on the meeting. And I was just like, man, I don't want to say the reason why I can't jump on the meeting. So I'm in that meeting and we're talking about social justice, and we're doing all of these different things. And I'm like, I remember that happened in May, and we get to like, June, July time. And I'm listening to a pastor, this dude Charlie dates out of Chicago. He had lost his mom and he had took time away. And he came back and he said, what I learned was I had to pick up my tears and doesn't mean I'm over it. You never get over this. You just pick up your tears and you carry them with you. And whenever you need to cry about something, you let it rip and you just go from there. And through that, I learned was I went through that because somebody's going to go through something and they're gonna be in a really bad spot. And I was like, and my story's gonna say something. And one of my good friends, his son was born. He had all heart issues, had to be flown out, flown to a specialized hospital. Wasn't sure if he was gonna make it. And he's going through it. And I call him and we're just on the phone and I'm telling him about my dark moments and what I was going through. And son ends up surviving. And a year later, months later, he calls me. He's like, yo, that meant the world that you called and you was open and you told me all those things because I needed it. And I was like, bro, I needed that. And I said. And I did that. And I told you that. Because I was like, somebody else is going to need that. And I was like, there's no why. I was like, we all search when these bad things happen, we search for that. And I was like, that's the why, man. Your testimony, when you testify that to somebody, they're going to get through whatever they're going through. I don't know what that is. And I was like, but I'm telling you, like, you're going to hear somebody or somebody's going to tell you something, and you're not going to be comfortable telling about your darkest moments. And I was like, and it's going to hit you that you got to go there. And I was like, and when you go there, that person's going to go there with somebody else. And I was like, that's the like. And that's what I think about Pack, like, this community is that when you go through something, somebody tells you their testimony, and it's all within a community that we keep lifting each other up, that what we go through, we get through it. Those blessings that come to us, they don't just come to us. They go through us. So that blessing of whatever I go through don't stop here. I got to send it along. We got to keep it going. So I just try to live by that, because that was a huge moment in my life of, like, again, some hard things as a kid that I went through. My dad passing, all that, grandparents. I've had grandparents as an adult. When that happened, like, I'm living life, man. I'm in the NFL. I'm doing all these great things, and that happened. That stopped me dead in my tracks. And to get through that, it took a lot, you know, And I just try to make sure that anything I go through becomes a testimony to somebody else to help them. And I believe that's a big purpose in life for us to go through some tough times. 100.
- [67:25]
B
100. I always look at life as, like, a chapter book. Chapter one, chapter two. You know, there's gonna be some fun chapters in there. There's gonna be.
- [67:33]
A
Yeah.
- [67:34]
B
And. And then at the end of the day, you close the book, the book's done, and. And that's it. But that's your legacy and. Exactly. And the more we all kind of lean into that as people and we lean off of each other off of that, we're gonna realize we're way more similar than we are.
- [67:48]
A
Yeah, exactly. Yep. We need more of that, man. That's so true.
- [67:51]
B
Facts. But appreciate the time, brother. I really enjoyed the conversation. Love everything that you guys are doing at Pack and, you know, being an inspiration to so many people. So keep doing what you're doing.
- [68:01]
A
Hey, man, appreciate your services, coming down and believing in Pack.
- [68:04]
B
Absolutely. Definitely do, man. Appreciate it, brother. Yes, sir.
- [68:14]
A
Sam.