← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
4 Ways To Heal Your Mind And Body From Stress and Anxiety with Rebekah Lyons
01:02:01
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- [00:07]
A
What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and I am here with a very dear friend and mentor and very wise woman of God. And I'm so excited for Rebecca Lyons to be on the Stay True podcast. Welcome.
- [00:27]
B
Thank you, friend.
- [00:28]
A
Oh, she's the best, you guys, and I cannot wait for you to hear from her. She's so full of wisdom. And for those of you who don't know Rebecca, she is an author. She has written Building a Resilient Life and Rhythms of Renewal and other books as well. Her and her husband have started this ministry called Think, which I can't wait for you to tell us a little bit about. And they also have four beautiful kids. And I can't wait for you to tell us about the family as well. But she is an amazing mom. And just in moving to Nashville, Tennessee, because they live in Franklin near Nashville, and moving here, I have just been asking Rebecca all the things. I'm like, where do I go to the doctor, where do I go get my teeth done, my hair done? And so she's just become a friend and someone that I'm really inspired by and look up to. And so it means a lot that you're coming on Stay True. So thank you for coming and welcome to the podcast.
- [01:20]
B
Thank you for having me. This is fun. I love talking to you any time of day when we go to lunch or whatever, and it just goes on and on so we can talk about. Any conversation with you is great. And if it's on your podcast, praise God. I'm just. It's a joy to be with you, praise God.
- [01:34]
A
And it's really like speaking to a wise counsel and a therapist at the same time. When you're talking with Rebecca, it's like the best. And I just. When I leave spending time with you, I leave closer to Jesus, knowing more of the truth of his word. And also, just like, you have such a peaceful presence, and it's so refreshing in such a chaotic and busy and full of anxiety world to be around someone who's just so full of peace. And I know that that hasn't like, I know your life hasn't been the easiest in the sense of, oh, I'm so full of peace because life is perfect. You fought for that peace and you fought for healthy rhythms and you fought for truth. And it's just been so cool to see, and I'm so impacted by it. And so just thank you for who you are. And I'd love For you to just start off with the Stay True audience by sharing a little bit about your story and a little bit about you and Gabe and your. And what brought you to Nashville and just all the things.
- [02:37]
B
Thanks, friend. Oh, my goodness. Well, before I forget, when you said that I bring peace, I think it's interesting. I think usually whatever that trial is that we've endured is related to the hope we offer the world. So sometimes the enemy goes after that very exact thing that the anointing is connected with. And it kind of makes me teary that you would say, like, you bring peace or you carry peace, because we all do, right? That in the armor of God, in Ephesians 6, we've got the feet shod with the preparation of a gospel of peace. And that's truly it. There's a gospel of Jesus Christ, the Prince of peace, that is available to all of us. And I think that's exactly why anxiety comes against us, because we were made in God's image to carry peace. And I think the same thing is true of if depression comes against us, we're made to carry hope or joy. Right. If sadness comes against it, we're made to carry joy. And our identity is always being thwarted, like it's trying to be stolen and replaced with brokenness. And so the enemy's like, I see targets on their back, and I'm just going to go after those things. So my story in a nutshell is I fell in love with my college sweetheart. We've been married 27 years in about a couple weeks.
- [04:00]
A
Amazing.
- [04:01]
B
And it hasn't always been easy. Like all marriages that stick around, you have your stories of just what God has done and what he's pruned and purified, even in marriage. And then that trickles down to motherhood. Parenting. We have four kids, 23, 21, 19, and then a little one, 11 that we adopted about six years ago from China. So our oldest and our youngest have down syndrome diagnosis. So that we are forever empty, nesting with them, which is its own unique, caring piece. It's this idea of, I could. I'm so teary. Your prayer before we started was so powerful. I'm like, I'm going to probably lose it, but it's okay.
- [04:42]
A
I'll join you. I'm hormonal.
- [04:45]
B
I will join you in the tears. But like, saying yes to that, you know, I didn't know Cade would have down syndrome at 26 when he was born, until six hours after he was born. And that terrified me because I thought, I don't even know how to be a mom, much less a special needs mama. That was failure to thrive. Emergency C section NICU for the first week, 4 1/2 pounds full term. I lost all my fluid the last trimester. And all the things that you don't want to happen for your first pregnancy or any of them all happened. And so being terrified of motherhood, even in that initial moment, I now know 23 years later that, like, motherhood is God given to all of us, that it is. It is an anointing. It is something that we're gifted with when we mother, and that I was made for that. But yet initially, it was really terrifying. And so in his mercy, he gave us the courage to choose down syndrome. Thirteen years later with bringing joy home. And she's keeping us very young. She's every bit her name. She's in fifth grade on Special Olympics chair. So she is so cute.
- [05:53]
A
She's so cute.
- [05:53]
B
She's always up for a good time. But now are in our. I just turned 50 in May and.
- [05:59]
A
Looks unbelievable, you guys. I can't. I tell Rebecca how hot she is all the time. I'm like, rebecca, you are a model. It's fine.
- [06:10]
B
Not true, not true. But it is funny. When I just chopped my hair, I was like, I had this haircut at 13. I feel like I'm chilling my 13.
- [06:18]
A
She's going to share with us all of her secrets of how she looks as good at 50. We're going to talk about healthy rhythms. You're hiding something. Because I'm like, I need to be starting that right now.
- [06:29]
B
You are. You already are. Don't worry. You are. But so all that to say, I don't remember where I was going. But in this new season, in our 50s, like Gabe and I are going, what are the rhythms for faithfulness? Longevity, slowing, being present fully for Kate and Joy, our oldest and youngest, as well as our other two when they're home. And now that they're launching into adulthood and just continually asking the question of the Lord, what does faithfulness look like here and now? And obedience might have looked a little different a decade ago or a decade prior to that. It might have looked like taking the mountain, or it might have looked like being spread thin just because life sometimes requires that, and then sometimes it requires slowing and pacing and longevity. And so I think that's kind of where we're at right now in the way we're seeing the future and pouring into younger people. That's why I stay young, honestly. I just pretend like I'm your age, but I'm not. But there's a. There's a zeal and a wisdom that come together when you've got people on fire for Jesus that are under 25, 30 and older, people that have stayed the course and been almost reignited by the contagious, active, visceral faith that is being acted out and lived in a way that is pure and genuine. I love that. So it's a joy.
- [07:53]
A
That's so good. And you and Gabe started this ministry called Think with a Q.
- [07:59]
B
Yes.
- [07:59]
A
And can you tell us a little bit about what that is? Because I do think that a lot of people listening, that could be a really helpful resource for them to get involved with and plugged into and.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah. So Think is something Gabe and I started when our second son, so 23, 22 years ago, something like that. And we just felt Gabe had always had a pulse on culture and we were noticing. We did a study, a barn, a study years ago for his first book, Unchristian. It was all about what 16 to 29 year olds think about Christianity and why it matters. And this was done in like 2007, six, five, something like that. And it was all about, like, the branding of Christianity. Why it was so, like a negative term. Nobody wanted it. It was. He was antagonistic even then. And so we were just leaning in and asking questions and trying to be curious of if the gospel of Jesus is compelling. But the, the Christian, you know, scaffolding around that was so confrontive. Then we knew that there was something there that was, like, missing, that was misunderstood. There wasn't a relational equity, you know, for people in the church and outside of the church. People weren't curious of what was going on outside of those spaces and what was broken. And how could we reach across lines and go, you know, help me understand your story and your, your circumstance and your trial or your trauma. And so that. That's really how we go. Okay. How do we equip believers on the front lines of culture that are in those spaces every day in arts, media, government, finance, fashion, you name it, film. And they sometimes feel like the only believer in their industry. And these were, again, in their 20s and 30s and 40s, like, as they're growing up in that industry and sometimes feeling very much alone and not knowing how to share their faith in that space.
- [09:52]
A
Right.
- [09:52]
B
In a way that was inviting and because again, sometimes people get the label and then they kind of shun you. And so we were like, let's just, let's build friendships and relationships and Talk about Jesus in a way that you get to rediscover him, the suffering servant, and not so much like whatever, whoever put God's face on. And somehow in your upbringing just revealed rejection or shame. And so that really compelled us to move to New York City when our kids were 5, 7 and 9, because we thought, well, if we're trying to help people on the front lines of culture while we're living in our Christian suburb up the south in our Christian minivan with our Christian swimming po and water slide, like, we should probably do what we're inviting other people to do. And so we sold 75% of what we had and we moved to New York City on the Upper east side for about the first four and a half, five years of our kids being in elementary school. And that's where I think the Lord just continued to ignite our faith for the lost. For people outside of these circles that really want they they are image bearers and they recognize God, but they wouldn't always call it God. And so that's just compelled us to this day. Now we're in Nashville, We've been here 10 years. When our kids got older and our oldest has down syndrome. Like I said, he needed better services for his adult onset. He's now 23 and in an adult program for a special needs and a vocational training program here in Franklin. So that's great. So we just knew we had to eventually be where we are now. But that paved the way for us to care deeply about the tensions of our time and how our faith makes sense to no matter what the topic is now, whether it's gender, sexuality, addiction, porn, suicidal ideation, mental health, you name it. We have playlists on our Think Media app where anyone could hear like a long whatever the topic is that you want to go deep dive in. Where we have it's basically like a Christian. TED we have these culture summits every year and we'll have 25 to 30 presenters do nine and 18 minute talks and they'll talk about that year, what the pressures are, what the data says, what does God say. And there's even a rubric for think that's like, what is history? What does theology say about this? History, inquiry, nuance, and then asking a better question so we know whether it's the seed, like a war on the womb, you know, whatever that looks like, that these are like contentious topics sometimes. But let's, let's just go back to scriptures, let's go back to history, let's go back to seeking to understand and being curious and being open to conversations with people that might see things differently, with a place of mutual respect. And when we do that, we're not intimidated by topics anymore. We're able to genuinely engage in whatever the content is. And I have found that that's been bridge building, quite frankly. And we don't still always lay in the same place, but we do come to love each other more. And I think that bears witness in what the gospel is and that we still keep showing up.
- [13:04]
A
It's so good and it's so needed in our world today and for this generation. I feel like there are a lot of people seeking clarity with a lot of those topics and a lot of those wrestles and a lot of those things that they're being fed by, you know, Tick Tock and Instagram, what, you know, gender, sexuality, all those things. But for someone who, you know, knows, maybe they were raised in a Christian home or, you know, they're. They've had an encounter with God, but they still wrestle with some of those things. They have questions about some of those things. It's so important for the church and the people of Christ and the body of Christ, right, to not be afraid to speak out about those topics and to have those conversations and to allow people to ask questions and then to answer those questions and provide clarity by going to the scriptures, by turning back to history, by doing those things. I think it's. It's just so beautiful. It's so important. And I've been at some of the summits and events that you guys have done, and it's just been so beautiful and amazing to see just a room full of so many different people, many different types of stories, so many different types of speakers that are up there talking about all kinds of different topics. And it's been helpful in my faith journey. So we will include in the, in the show notes like how you guys can go and learn more about think, because it. It really is amazing. But I'm really excited about our conversation today and what I want to talk about because this is something that I've seen in my own personal life. I've had questions about my own personal life. This is something that Grant and I, my husband and I talk about all the time and something I've seen him even struggle with, wrestle with. And so I thought for today's conversation, talking about how to handle panic attacks. Yeah. How to handle stress. I think we all can feel the weights of the world on our shoulder. And if it's not external, it's internal and we're faced with all of these different things. We constantly feel like we have to do more, strive for more, be more, and it can feel really overwhelming. And then I would love to end the podcast. I was laughing earlier with Rebecca. I was like, she's like the rhythms queen, but she is on how to build healthy rhythms. I mean, she's written a lot about it. You guys have a podcast on it, you and your husband. And it's. It's been so helpful for me and I think will be so helpful for so many listening on how to, you know, renew your mind again and how to start adding those rhythms back into your routine and your life again, even when you are having those feelings of feeling stressed or panic or overwhelmed. And so I would love to jump into that. Yeah, let's do it. And so, first of all, you know, and I mentioned this earlier, but you have opened up with me about when panic attacks first, you know, got started in your life, which was in New York City. Right. And that's something that, like, personally, I have not experienced panic attacks. I've. I've experienced anxiety, but I've walked my husband through panic attacks, and I've witnessed them. Like, I've seen, like, physical manifestation of, like, him experiencing a panic attack. And. And it's a really. It's a hard thing to even watch someone you love, like, go through something like that. And, you know, that's something that we've talked about a lot is like, you know, does it make. You know, does it make me a bad Christian to struggle with anxiety? Like, what do I do when a panic attack comes? All of these different questions that I feel like our world today is looking for clarity for. And looking for truth for.
- [16:28]
B
Yeah.
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A
And so I would love to just ask some of those. So first of all, I would love to hear your story with panic and anxiety and then really get into kind of some of those answers of, like, how to combat that and. And even, like, deal with it when you're in the middle of it.
- [16:43]
B
Right, Absolutely. Because there is a neurobiological thing happening. It's. It's not like a faith thing. Okay, so we need to. We need to talk about that. God is the master scientist who made our brain. So God is invited into this entire conversation. He's in control of this whole conversation. So my life message is where science and faith collide, because he created us, and he knows what we need, and. And he will use all means necessary for our healing. So that's where I want to start with this, because my first Panic attack was four months into our time in New York City. We had moved again from the suburbs of the south to a City with 8 million people in the span of 11 miles. And my mind was rooted in claustrophobia. I had never struggled with that ever, in my adult life until I had been there for about four months. And it became this pressure cooker of always being in crowded spaces. No such thing as personal space. Mine started on an airplane landing at LaGuardia around midnight, coming back from a trip to Atlanta, where we used to live, and we hit horrible turbulence. And right as we're about to land, something rose in me and overcame. And so if you've not had a panic attack, the difference is on an anxiety continuum, you've got like mild stress all the way to full, full blown panic disorder. And that's basically just how long and how frequent your brain has had to deal with that, that terror or that feel, fear that rages through you. And so they're not the same thing. I'm glad that you distinguish those things. And just because you might have anxious thoughts or intrusive thoughts, that doesn't mean you're going to have panic attacks. What a panic attack does to your body is that in an acute way, like there's a. Something clicks and you feel this terror where your body responds within seconds, where your heart rate jumps from like your normal resting heart rate to 160 to 180 beats per minute. So adrenaline is surging through you and you're responding as if you're being held at gunpoint, like sheer terror. But you're just sitting or you're in your bed or you're, you know, it, it and it's, you don't see it coming. And often when it does, you think, am I having a heart attack? Do I need to go to the er? I especially that first time, second time, you're like, something's wrong, like terribly wrong. Because why is my adrenaline racing as if some, there's an intruder about to kill me. Like that's what it feels like. And then it's usually attached to some feeling, like if I don't escape, I will die. Like, I need to get out of this setting, I need to remove myself from this circumstance or situation to calm the amygdala down, because that's what's happening. And what I learned much later is that the lower brain, the, you know, the bottom reptilian part of the brainstem is your survivor brain. And it cannot tell time, but it's what regulates your heart rate and Your breathing.
- [19:40]
A
Interesting.
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B
And so when you encounter even, like, just dust against something that might resemble a setting or a circumstance where you felt trapped or powerless. For me, those were the words, trapped and powerless in a circumstance or a situation, then even. It might not even be the same setting at all, but there's just enough of a similarity in the lower brain that it triggers it, as if it's happening right now. And so your body is reacting again, as if you're right back in that moment. And no one had, really, at the time, language to explain that to me. I've done so much study in neuroscience and neuroplasticity since then, and how to repair that injured, like, neural pathway. But. And that is through regulating rhythms. That's why I wrote the book. But. But so often we're just, like. We usually jump on medication. We go to counseling. We do all the things because we're desperate for answers. But part of the repair requires a rhythmic life. It requires regulating rhythms that heal and grow injured neurons that have been traumatized through certain things. And what I was put back to was I remember being on the table the day Kate was born, which was nine years prior to my first panic attack. And I remember them saying, you're having this baby now. Failure to thrive. You have no fluid. He's four and a half pounds, full term. And they put me on an or, and they give me an epidural, and they wheel me in, and they touch the bottom of my stomach, and I'm like, I felt that. Please don't cut me open until this kicks in. They gave me a second epidural, and then by the time they are cutting me open, that first one went up in my lungs. And they call it a high block. And it means it basically is like paralysis of the lungs, where you can't take a deep breath, you can't breathe on the table. So as they're tugging Kate out, and I explain this in the Resilient book, in the Treat Anxiety as a friend, right? There's a whole chapter on panic attacks there and how I combat them. But they're tugging him out, and I'm thinking, I couldn't get words out clearly. And I thought I was terrified, and I didn't want to say it because I was like, this can't be real. Gabe's, like, reading Psalm 91 over me. He's petting my head like, they have a drape there. And finally I'm like, I die. Like, I felt like I was suffocating.
- [21:58]
A
Wow.
- [21:59]
B
And so the doctor leans over me and he looks at me while I'm laying like this, and he says, if you stop breathing, we can breathe for you. Like, it was not reassuring. But he immediately put oxygen on me. And I had a doctor on me regulating my oxygen the same exact time another doctor is getting cade whisked away to the nicu. And I was just fighting to stay conscious. And so what happened was that the terror of that was similar to what I was experiencing later. And it's this idea of I'm trapped and powerless. I don't know how to change, then reverse the situation. And so that could be metaphorical. It could be in a relationship, it could be in a setting, a circumstance. It's not always a physical circumstance. It's not like you were abused, and therefore you have panic attacks. It. There's no, like, direct connection. It just means that for some reason, there is a history of some form of being in a situation that you didn't have a say or a voice or know what to do with that situation. And maybe there wasn't someone around that could help you in that situation. Situation. And I. And again, I. This is not to point fingers at anybody. All of us are in those situations all the time. So for why they might be more acute for some than others, I don't have the answer for that. But it is good to know that, because it does mean. What's awesome is that the brain does have the ability to heal. Go. It is malleable. And this has only been popular now in neuroscience for about the last 30 years, that the brain is an organ just like other organs that regenerate and they can repair, they can heal. And so often that is done. There's an excellent book called what Happened to youo? By Dr. George Perry, who he's interviewed by Oprah. And he said we now in just regulating rhythms, 60 to 80 beats per minute, doing rhythmic things like dance or massage or anything that's active, walking, pacing, raising your heart rate. These are all calming practices for the brain. They repair and they heal the brain using left and hand, right hands on, like, piano or cooking or makes. So I do all these kind of reels on Instagram. I'm always sharing. Like, this is not just because I think rhythms are fun. No, These rhythms heal the brain. Wow. And they have. They stop. Like, I did cry out to God, he did meet me, he did rescue me. But still he's like, I can pull you out of a pit of despair because I had this for about a year and a half, and he did heal me in that way. And I didn't have another panic attack for seven years. But he also, I think, rescues us from hard things so that we can then do the disciplines and do the work and do an embodied life. Live an embodied life. Like, if. If your job or my job is largely on a screen or a microphone or on a stage, then we've got to counterbalance that with even more things that we do that are active and, and creative and tactile and working with our hands. Otherwise we will have anxiety because an under. Active body creates an overactive brain. Brain.
- [25:04]
A
Wow. Wow. I've seen that in my. I've literally seen that in my own life, especially in weeks where I have to like, spend hours and hours at the computer, like in writing, and I'm like, if I don't get outside or I don't go on a walk or spend time with people, which, I mean, and, and those sound like such simple, duh, obvious things. But I think that there's even situations where for a lot of us, like, we could just binge watch Netflix all day long and we just stay laying on the couch, or we just stay scrolling on our phones and then. And we haven't seen sunlight and we haven't, you know, cooked a meal. We Uber eats everything. We, you know, we haven't spent time with people like real people.
- [25:42]
B
It's only with a real friend, you know. Yeah.
- [25:45]
A
Through social media. And then we wonder why we feel so anxious and depressed. And so I, I think that this is going to be so helpful for so many people. And I love that you spoke to, you know, that you. This is where faith and science meets. Because I think, like, a question that Grant has had that I have had a lot is, you know, what do you do when you read Philippians 4, where it talks about, hey, don't be anxious about anything, but in everything, you know, by prayer and supplicate, like, present your request to God and he'll give you peace. And. And what do you do when you pray? And then the anxiety doesn't go away.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah, no, this is good. I love, I love all these questions, trust me. Well, a couple things. The key on that verse is Thanksgiving. Present your request to God with Thanksgiving. Yeah. And so I didn't have a panic attack for seven years, but the rhythms book Rhythms of Renewal was all about how to trade stress and anxiety for peace and purpose. And I start that book telling the story of me having my very first panic attack in seven years. And I was trapped, trapped in an old home in a bathroom with this like old heavy door and everyone, it was a retreat we were hosting in Carmel, California. And all 30 people had gone into town and I was left and my phone died and it was like a hundred year old building and the door was like this thick and I was stuck in just a little stall like this. And it rose in me like nobody's. Like the worst panic attack of my life. And I'd been teaching and preaching about healing and rescue and freedom and I thought, and I look up and there's this tiny little window way high. And I'm thinking, are the hips going to lie? Can I get through that thing? Can I? And I hoist myself up on the back of this old antique, you know, toilet and out this little metal window, scrape my legs coming out. And I landed like we're overlooking like the water. And I was trembling, right, because that's what the panic does. Like, like everything in your body just starts shaking like jello. And I remember laying down on my bed that night and the tears kept going. I'm like, am I a fraud? Like, it's back and it was scary. It's like relapse. And I heard the Lord, so sweet in my spirit, say, I don't promise that fear won't come knocking, but I always promise a way of escape so that you'll be able to bear it. And that's the point. Um, when Jesus says, my peace, I In John 14, my peace, I give you. My peace, I leave with you. He then says, do not let your heart be troubled or afraid. He's never going to say. He says, in this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world. And so the idea here is that fear is the enemy's tool to cripple his church, to cripple the bride. And often we think it's our willful sin. You know, like, well, if I'm not willfully sinning, I'm not trying to dishonor God, I'm trying to be faithful. But this fear keeps coming at me. And anxiety, quite frankly, is a fancy word for fear. And God says in second Timothy 1:7, I've not given you a spirit of fear, but power, love and a sound mind, right? So a spirit of fear is truly not from God. It never has been, never will be. So Jesus is saying, my peace, I am the Prince of peace. My peace I give to you. So don't be troubled or afraid. Do not let your heart be troubled or afraid. What he's saying is, the enemy is going to do what is in his nature to do. He's going to try to bully, attack, accuse, throw things that are going to make you afraid and. And cripple you and make you mute. He wants the bride to be fearful because we feel like that's not sin. But what makes it tricky is that Jesus says, when the fear comes knocking, do not let it rule you. Do not bow down to the fear. Because what happens in the church is we feel powerless to the anxiety, Right? I did. I felt powerless to the panic attacks. I would avoid everything that would remind me of the rage that was about to happen in my body. I wasn't even afraid of the elevator or the subway or the crowd or the airplane. I was afraid of me. I was afraid of the terror that would, like, ravage me. And I had no answer for it. And when I. God put me on airplanes after that to talk about the rescue of God, which was very ironic, obviously. You know, now I get to preach on healing. But yet I'm so. What I knew is like, I gotta armor up, right? If I know that there's a fiery dark coming maybe to threaten my peace or anybody else's, then I gotta armor up. And one thing I did is I just typed out 30 verses for anxiety. I would put worship in my ears. I would just read through. I would have a baby Bible that is always on me at all times, tattered and written all over. But I have read that over and over on airplanes. And when I would start to feel in those early days, because you have to retrain the brain, because the brain still has it, while the lower part can't tell time, the top part is very familiar. Now, like when things are crowded or squished or unexpected, we run.
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A
That's what we get out of there.
- [31:02]
B
We hightail it. But you can. You can't do that on planes, and you can't do that going forward. And so you have to retrain the brain by going when it begins to come. I started to say instead. My version of do not let meant I reject and I renounce the spirit of fear, like right when it was coming on. And I would say instead, Jesus, you are my peace. You are my prince of Peace. I submit to your covering of peace. That was my way of saying do not let. So instead of bowing to fear, I will bow to the prince of peace. Peace. I will submit and come under his protective covering. Because if he tells us the peace I give, the world cannot give. Do we believe it or not?
- [31:39]
A
Yeah.
- [31:39]
B
And if that is so, what. What that sometimes has meant for Me until now. I mean, it's taken some time. It's been, you know, 12 years since this all began. I don't have it much anymore because I've done so many rhythms now that the brain, I think, has rewired it a lot. There will be subtle things, but in general, I'm not afraid of elevators like I used to be because I keep getting on them by myself and being like, Jesus, I love talking to him the whole time. But what I would do is even in those early days when it was too late and it started to consume, I would just like, you know, and I'm sure you've watched this with Grant, I would kind of like go in the zone and I would breathe out deep and I would just go, jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And I would regulate box breathing because that in neuroscience is recommended. Like, slow, deep, inhale and exhale calms the brain immediately. So doing the science, but also doing the faith, Jesus, you are my peace. And I would just literally let it roll through. And an average acute panic attack like that only lasts five to eight minutes. So once it's rolled through you, you can actually stay in that same setting, never moving, and you're perfectly fine. So what is not only attached to the spirit of fear is a spirit of intimidation. And we don't speak to that very much because the intimidation gets us to run so far from the potential of fear that we're never able to overcome the fear.
- [33:02]
A
Wow, that's so true.
- [33:03]
B
So we will stay. And the more you avoid fear, it grows. And I knew that. That's why cbt, or cognitive behavioral therapy is this slow, small, steady step towards something that used to make you run. And with the help and encouragement of other people and the consistency, consistency of retraining your brain over time, you will overcome that thing. And no longer will it be a traumatic experience. It will just be a resilience building exercise.
- [33:31]
A
Amen. And a testimony of what God has delivered you from and brought you through, that you now get to help other people. Like, that's what I love about what you do, is you are helping other people, you know, with what God has delivered you from and with what God has saved you and set you free from, which is our role as believers. Like, no matter your story, no matter what you've been through, it's like when God has brought you through to the other side and when God has delivered you, like helping other people who are still currently in it. And I know that that's something that like, even, even Grant, like, watches your, like, he'll save your videos on Instagram. And he's like, yeah, that's really good because I think you posted about the. What, what did you say? Like renounce it.
- [34:10]
B
And yeah, I reject and I renounce the spirit of fear. Because really the scriptures are so clear. Resist the enemy and he will flee.
- [34:17]
A
Amen.
- [34:18]
B
And so we read that and we're like, that's great. Here's a very practical way to do what it says. Yeah, like we read the word, but doing what it says. Sometimes we're not sure how that applies to our everyday life. Well, how do I resist? Like right, well right now you're about to go under with a panic attack. So I reject and I renounce. Use your mouth. Don't think it in your mind, use your mouth. Because the confession becomes declaration. And so we're not just confessing to repent, we're confessing to declare that yes, I don't want to give way to fear, but I'm going to declare that Christ is my Prince of peace. And as we stay, say that out loud. That takes priority over anything that might be ruminating in a hidden brain. And I think that's the same thing with intrusive thoughts. I've met with so many girls that have self harm intrusive thoughts. They have like addicting intrusive thoughts. They, they're terrifying. Girls and guys, terrifying intrusive thoughts, even thoughts of suicidal ideation. All of these are these thoughts that take over and instead you confront those thoughts with declaration from your mouth and find the words that feel natural to you. Mine was reject and renounce the spirit of fear. Because I just felt like a baddie when I was saying that. I was like, we're going in. But whatever feels true to you that has authority from Christ, say it, say it loud, say it proud. And just, just come under the covering of Jesus because all authority has been given to him on heaven and on earth. And in his name, demon, demons flee.
- [35:48]
A
Amen. Amen. And not coming in alignment with things that are not of God or from God. Like you said, the spirit of fear is not of God or from God. And so rejecting that and is how you resist the enemy. And I love that you said say it out loud because that's so important. I think too many times we're trying to fight the battle in our minds and we're trying to keep it in there.
- [36:06]
B
Yeah.
- [36:06]
A
And what happens is that rumination. What happens is the cycle doesn't get broken, it just continues or it grows even more because we're not Confronting it. We're not declaring it, we're not confessing it. And every single time, what I've seen, even with Grant, I feel like I'm sharing so much. He. He's very open. We talk about on the podcast a lot, but he. He will confess to me. He's like, hey, I. I'm feeling really anxious right now. And I remember one time on the plane because for him, planes are very triggering and kind of same thing, claustrophobic, but also, like, can't leave, you know, can't escape. You're trapped. And so for him, he wants to go to what is comfortable. He feels better if. If I'm there, for instance. And I remember one time recently, I, like, looked at him and he looked at me, and I could tell. I could tell you, you and Gabe.
- [36:57]
B
Would have a lot to talk about. We.
- [37:00]
A
We're gonna all get together. We're gonna. We're gonna share stories. But he looked at me, and I was like, I know those eyes. And, you know, and. And every time, usually my response is like, okay, let's pray together, let's. But this time I said, you know what? You take this to God, like, before you take this to me, you take this to God and thank you for confessing it to me and thank you for saying it out loud. But now, like, go do something about it with God, because, like you said, he is our covering. He is our prince of peace. I cannot give what only God can give.
- [37:27]
B
Right?
- [37:28]
A
And there are going to be moments where I'm not going to be with you, but he is always with you.
- [37:33]
B
Right?
- [37:33]
A
And I think that is. Is helpful for people to hear because it is very easy for us to run to those comforts and to run to those things. And for me, when I'm feeling anxious, it's the same thing. Or for me, I go to control. Like, I. I want to, like, control the situation. And when I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling overwhelmed, I. You know, my. My body gets really tense, and I just start trying to, like, control things. And so we go to what is, like, natural or comfortable for us. But I think that is. Is so beautiful. And what's been really helpful for Grant, and he shared this on the podcast, is memorizing Psalm 23. And just, like, reading that and saying it out loud and journaling it, like, the. Those three things have been really helpful to read it, to say it, and to journal it and to just the deep breaths. I love that you said, combining, you know, science with faith of I'm not Only going to take the deep breaths because that's what science says my brain needs. But I'm also going to pair that with Holy Spirit. I'm inviting you into this.
- [38:34]
B
Yeah.
- [38:35]
A
And.
- [38:35]
B
And it is hope at the same time.
- [38:37]
A
Help and hope and that combative of, like, you're on defense, you're fighting and resisting that, the devil. But you're also on offense. Like, you're also inviting in the Holy Spirit and saying, God, I really need you right now. So this has been so good. I'd love to get a little bit into stress because although I don't struggle with panic attack as much, I really struggle with stress. And that is something that has been something that I've even tried to figure out of. Like, how can I manage my stress? How can I manage these anxious feelings that I'm having when I'm looking at my calendar and I'm seeing all of these things on my calendar and all these things that I have to do, and I can get myself really worked up.
- [39:18]
B
Like, yeah.
- [39:19]
A
You know, I'm seeing all these things I need to get done, and I feel like I can't do it all. I'm the only person that can get it done. And all these people are counting on me, and I feel like I'm not enough, and I feel like I can't. And it's like. And then it's just starts this, like, cycle.
- [39:30]
B
Yeah.
- [39:31]
A
And you are someone who. You have a lot on your plate. You know, you have four kids who are counting on you, two of them with down syndrome. You are writing books, you're speaking all the time. You're married, you have a spouse, you have people counting on you. And so for a lot of us, we feel these burdens and these weights. How have you been able to combat stress? And what would be your encouragement for someone who's feeling really, really overwhelmed? Right.
- [39:56]
B
Well, I was going to start. I don't know if you want me to turn the microphone, but I was curious. Do you know what your physical symptoms of stress? Do you kind of have a couple, like, natural things you like, how do you know when you are experiencing stress? Because I just want you to know what you're saying is so normal. Almost 8 out of 10 of us have physical symptoms of stress. So what are yours? Do you know?
- [40:15]
A
It's so funny. I laughed. Right before this, we were talking with a friend outside, and I told Rebecca. I was like, this is going to be like a therapy session for me.
- [40:22]
B
I was like.
- [40:22]
A
Because once we know that, and I'm like, What are my. This is my. This is my issue. Not my issue, but this is something I'm working through, is Grant is really good with knowing how he feels and, like calling it out. I'm not very good at that. So I just, like, see the results of it and I'm like, oh, yeah, I can tell. I'm really, like stressed out because, like, you know, my shoulders are really weighed down and I'm a little snippier. Like, I'm just. I'm a little more irritable.
- [40:51]
B
Overreactive response.
- [40:52]
A
Overactive of. I'm just speaking for a friend.
- [40:55]
B
I wouldn't understand that.
- [40:57]
A
Well, she's like, yeah, I've seen it.
- [40:59]
B
No, no, no, no. Only the safest ones get that joy.
- [41:03]
A
I know. And Grant sees it all the time. And so it's something that, for me, it usually comes up when I have like these massive deadlines or when I'm. Yeah, when I'm in a really busy season. And so, like, I have. Say I'm in a season where I have six back to back speaking engagements, I have podcasts I need to record, I have all of these meetings that I need to go to, but I also want to be there for my friends and I also want to be there for my husband. And then I'm just like feeling the weight of all of those things. Usually for me, I keep it. I'm not as good with, like saying it out loud and it's something I'm trying to be better at and like, confess because for the longest time for me, I did keep it in my head and then it just made it worse. And I carried around so much tension. But now I usually try to confess it to a friend, let Grant know, hey, this is a really crazy week for me. I'm already starting to feel a little overwhelmed.
- [41:58]
B
Like, does it feel. Do you feel it in shallow breathing? Do you feel it in a. Like, do you sleep well?
- [42:03]
A
Don't sleep well.
- [42:04]
B
Okay. Don't sleep well.
- [42:06]
A
Yeah, definitely don't sleep well. Pregnant.
- [42:08]
B
Yeah.
- [42:08]
A
But before.
- [42:10]
B
Yeah. You are growing a baby in you as well.
- [42:13]
A
So it's. I can't even believe. Blame it on the baby. I know. Sleeping well. I do not sleep well. And then usually, like very distracted, have a hard time, like really locking. Even in my quiet time, if I find myself being really overwhelmed in my quiet time, I'll be thinking of like the 400 things that I need to do. And so as soon as I get quiet, it's like the racing thoughts. And then, like I said, just irritability and short tempered and very. Or quick tempered and very short with Grant and yeah, all the things.
- [42:44]
B
Well, I didn't want to put you on the spot, but I want, wanted. What I think all your listeners are going to say is like, oh, yeah, me too. Like everyone, 84% right now of your generation is struggling with physical symptoms of stress. So that's almost nine out of ten. And what that usually looks like is sleepless nights, a mind that won't quit, shallow breathing, irritability, and you know, people would put ADHD in that. But it's partly just because you have like a bouncing brain. Brain. Right. It's just like, it's like bing, bing, bing, bing. And it's partly because, unfortunately, I want to blame a little bit of this on the phones, not everything on screens, but because our attention span has been so reduced to just a few seconds, like some people say less than three seconds. We, we already are on to the next thing because that's what the algorithm has taught our brain and it has rewired our brain to just go to that, that explore page and we give it three seconds. Three seconds. Three seconds. Three seconds.
- [43:44]
A
So true.
- [43:45]
B
I don't even give it three seconds. I think I give it like one second.
- [43:48]
A
Yeah, you have a, you have one second.
- [43:50]
B
Like me. I'm like, oh, that's cute. Oh, oh. But what else, what else? Oh, that's really funny. And then I'll share like half of those memes with my family. So this isn't just your generation, but, but like all things, these are patterns that are developed over time. And mine, before I was, you know, before TikTok, before social media was, is as prevalent, I would open my laptop and the minute I would look at ical, like my calendar, I start, go. And Gabe would be like, you're doing.
- [44:16]
A
That breathing thing again.
- [44:18]
B
And I'm like, I look at my schedule and my life that I've created, that I've said yes to, and I am all of a sudden having a hard time breathing when I confront, when I face it. And what I, what I found. And I don't know if this applies to you or not, so you could speak to this, but I think the Lord, Lord calls us to the thing. Like, he anoints us, gives us a life message. He gives us passion and tenacity and in his kindness, favor, or whatever that looks like. And that's the thing, like, and yes, there's multiple ways of doing that, but in general, like my life messages, like healing, transformation, freedom with the brain and the body, you know, and then this embodied gospel that goes with that. The problem is when that thing become. Meets a little bit of success, then all of a sudden all these other invitations come around the thing. Yeah, right. And while those are all good and noble things, they start to become the scaffolding around the main thing. And after about a decade of this, there was a moment where I said, my body's so weary, I want to quit. And I forget why I started in the first place. And that is a scary place to be. And I started looking at all the things I was doing in that season. And Jesus is like, I didn't ask you to do all that. And they're almost. It required a taking of inventory of my life almost in every year we do that. But even a decade at a time, I'm like, maybe I had the tenacity and. And the passion and the vigor at 35 or 45, but now there's an invitation to a new. A new thing. And this. And this idea of going, what if we felt the freedom to pull back to a pace that is flourishing and sustainable versus when I found that even the best things that were coming at me, my posture was still. When I get through this. When I get through this totally. And all of a sudden you start to sound so ungrateful and so bratty. And it's not even. It's. It's like the duty and obligation that's wrapped around the passion that can rob the very fire of the flame that was fanned in you in the first place. And so I was like, okay, Lord, show me what you've invited me to do. Show me what I've said yes to just because I like to please people. Or maybe I want to look credible or impressive to make up for maybe some unworthiness. That might be little Rebecca under there somewhere. And here. Heal her. So that now my yes is a yes of conviction, not duty or obligation. Knowing that it's something you've invited and entrusted me to do that will bring vigor, that will bring energy, that will bring delight. And so I think for all of us, when we start running too much in one direction too intensely, our bodies will pay the price. And they usually are the things that alarm. Sound the alarm, and. And then we listen and we autocorrect. And every season, you Even entering motherhood, you're going to autocorrect again and again and again and again. And it's sweet because the call of God never stops. The invitation of God never stops the passion that he's put in you will never stop. But he will do it in a way where his yoke is easy and light. And so when I first started teaching, you know, coming out of panic disorder, a lot of people would have anxiety and depression. I was praying over these heavy hard stories of people in line after an event. And one 13 year old girl had attempted to take her life twice that week. There would be people in a book line that would like, want they survived that week. And I would have people with me, we'd be praying over them and you're like front lines. And I felt, I said, lord, this feels so heavy. And he said, hey, if I call you to be like light, I will make it feel light. And so that it required this kind of what Jesus modeled and what, and what the what the Lord modeled in creation. There was a rest. There was a rest that was not optional, it was mandatory, it was required. And Jesus, even in his ministry for those three years, he would get away with the Father. He would get away, he would tuck away, he would retreat, he would leave the crowds, he would revive and refresh his soul from his time with the Lord. And how much more would we need that as mortal beings, as image bearers, but still not God? And, and going, okay, Lord, show me what a true Sabbath looks like. A true slowing, a true resting, a true regulating of my, my heart rate and my brain so that I can be one who carries peace. Because we can kind of spin and enter the rooms and do the thing. But when we encounter people with like a peaceful or a resting peace or a peaceful present, it's very clear that that's not coming from me. And in that moment it's like, oh, this was, this is a gift that you gave me from just getting away in the secret place and spending more time there and not. And part of it for me personally was the people pleasing. And so I would just say with stress in general, just ask God to whoever's listening, like what did you invite me to do? What am I doing? Because I'm thinking everybody else is expecting me to do it, but I don't really find joy in it. It, it doesn't revive me. And then show me one of my favorite verses. Restore to me the joy of my salvation and renew a right spirit in me. Psalm 139created me a clean heart. Renew a right spirit in me. In fact, that verse begins with, in Psalm 139, he says, how does it begin? About my anxious thoughts. Search me, oh God, Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Test me and show my anxious thoughts, See if there's anything wicked in me and lead me in the way everlasting. So there's all these invitations to going, if David, God's bestie, is saying, will you search me and show me my anxious thoughts and then lead me in the way everlasting, then that feels like a pretty good rubric for the rest of us to go even through life. Like, how can I ask you to show me what I need to lay down?
- [50:31]
A
Totally. And I think a lot of times we, when we read through the Bible or, you know, when we hear or someone talking about the Bible or we're like, oh, but that doesn't apply to my situation like that, does it? You know, God doesn't understand what I'm faced with and what I'm going through. And you just, you look all throughout Scripture and it's like, fear is talked about a lot, and do not be afraid. It's talked about a lot.
- [50:53]
B
Like 365, like, every day of the year.
- [50:55]
A
Every day of the year, one for every day. And, you know, that, like, people pleasing is talked about. You know, all of these things are addressed in scripture, and there is a way to apply that to your life. And, And I love verse so much because it's a prayer that I try to pray every single day because there's so many things that we aren't aware of that we operate in that hold us back and that keep us from being fully who God has called and created us to be. Whether it's fear, whether it's people pleasing, whether it's, you know, insecurity, whether it's pride, whatever it may be. And so even praying that prayer, like, God, search me. And what offense am I. Am I holding and harboring right now? What. What fear am I allowing to, you know, be in my heart and in my life that I'm coming into agreement with right now. And I think that's such a practical step for those listening to invite the Holy Spirit in and ask the Lord to search you. Like, Lord, search my heart and remove any anxious thoughts and then lead me in the way of everlasting. And so I think that's such a good. And I'd love to really end this podcast talking about some practical ways for those who, you know, are listening right now saying, okay, yes, that's been so good. You guys get me. You understand where I'm at. Okay, now what do I do? Yeah, and I, yeah, I'm happy to go there, too. I've been there where I'm like, amazing. Now help me. What do I do? How do I apply this to my life? And so I'd love to talk to you about and I'd love for you to answer, like, what are some ways we can renew our minds? You talked about that. Like you can, can retrain your brain, you can, you know, your brain can heal itself. And so what are ways that people can renew their mind? And what are some healthy rhythms that we can begin to implement in our lives that can, that we can combat that stress and anxiety that we feel?
- [52:43]
B
Yeah. I would say when we want to slow down, one of the most necessary things to do is to get up and move our bodies. So I would say if you have stress, stress or low grade anxiety or just that low hum like anxiousness, shallow breathing, you've been at your desk for a while, you've been on your phone for a while, put it all away and go outside. 100 anytime, even my daughter or anyone in our family is feeling anxious, I'm like, put on your tennis shoes and get outside. Get outside in nature is, it's like quick, it's quicker. I mean you can go to the gym, but if you can even just walk out your front door with tennis shoes on.
- [53:20]
A
Yes.
- [53:20]
B
And you just get a movement going pretty quickly. And I would do even a brisk movement. Like I still try to do 10,000 steps a day. That's about four and a half miles, not quite depending on your how big your steps are. But just get outside for 45 minutes, listen to a podcast, or just talk to Jesus, but get outside and move your body. That regulating rhythm, 60 to 80 beats per minute mimics the womb. That's about the pace that your mom walked while you were in utero. And it gives you those feelings of nurture, safety, like calming, like belonging. Right. Because that's how your brain developed in the very primal days of your life. So do that, that regulating rhythm of walking and that movement. Listen to a worship song or talk to God or I like Tim Keller sermon. It just like depends on the day. Sometimes just want to like sing loud with forest Frank. It doesn't even matter, you know, whatever it is that's rhythmic and active. Another thing is pay attention to the food that makes your, your bounce spring, like increase like your ADHD or whatever. So for me, I found that too much caffeine past a certain time, sugar, certain kinds of foods with gluten or dairy, my, my stomach didn't do as well. So I've just continued to pay attention to when I'm more most focused and so I try to eat whole ingredients. I don't, I've stopped doing processed food. But we garden and not everyone can do that. But you can buy things that have whole ingredients in them. There's a lot of packaged goods now that are places that you can find. But pay attention to what you're eating because what you're eating is going to inform like your mentality. People have never understood in the past how much our, our mind and our body and our gut are interconnected. And I share about that a lot on our Rhythms for Life podcast because it's all about the mind and the brain and the body. And it made me get so into interested in the body because I realized, oh, I was just focusing on how to repair the brain, but I didn't realize the body needs to be functioning of the brain. They're so connected. So practical things for that is like find some resistance that you can do like again at the gym or whatever. That's good for women anyways because we lose a little bit of our bone density over our lifetime and resistance training with some form of a weight is the only way that you can do it. Some people use weighted vests when they go for walks. There's a lot of science on this out there with Gabrielle Lyon. She talks a lot about the kind of workouts we as women can do that will actually calm the brain and build strength. Strength. And I recommend doing that sooner because it is, it is a stress reliever. So whatever you can, you know, rowing, go do a kickboxing class, do something fun at the gym, whatever, but get outside. The second thing is what you eat. And then I think there. So the four rhythms and that I talk about rest, restore, connect, create. So rest is the inner life. Talk to God every morning. Consecrate that day to him. Give thanks always, like in your journal. However you talk to God, just praise him for what he's done in the past, what he's doing today, and what he's continuing to do in the future. Praise him in advance. And then the restore is like I just said about movement and food. And then the third is connect. And I, I don't think we do this enough in person. We think connection is over the screen, but it a 90% of communication is nonverbal and that doesn't happen over a screen. You need to be in the same room. And so what I'm picking up with your body language and your face and your, and your smile and your tone and your posture, just can't get that on a Screen. And so you. There's an empathy that's being exchanged that repairs and heals the brain. Even when we're just sharing something in confidence or we're sharing from the heart or a tear might come, that is connection that actually heals. It bears one another's burdens and love. So find those people. And I've done a lot on friendship. Some people are like, I don't know how to make friends. Just be the friend you wish to have. The Lord will bring the people around. Lead with vulnerability. Don't be like the savior or the fix it for somebody else. Like all friendships need reciprocity. Both mutual kind of being vulnerable in. In this sweet kind of supportive friendship, not a codependent friendship. And then I would say the last one is create. And that's a big one. And that can be anything from trying a new recipe to, you know, writing a poem to playing an instrument to learning a new TikTok dance. I don't care. But just do something. The brain needs novelty. So it needs you to do a new thing every day that you've never done before. And that. And. And while there might be some things that are new that create a little stress, like, I've never done this. I'm not good at this. You actually need to activate your stress response in healthy, moderate, predictable ways. And then you need people to encourage you. Like, my husband's like, oh, wow, you never made that for. That's really good. I should try that again. That then is how you build resilience. You try these, like, little bit of hard things that activate just a little bit of stress. We do need a little bit of stress stress, but we need to overcome that stress so that we grow in things that are hard. Just like your first time public speaking, stressed out, you know, and then your 30th, you're like, this isn't so bad. And by your 300th, you're like, this is like a normal Tuesday. And that just shows us the brain is capable of far more than we think. We just need to engage it in moderate, predictable ways. And it's best done in the context of community where people encourage you. You did it. Wait to go, keep going. Or like kids every year in school, like, new teacher, new class, new assignments, new like sports, games, and, you know, all those things create stress, but in healthy ways. Those kids are growing in resilience. So not only are we trying to combat stress, we're trying to become resilient people. And that's by doing hard things with the support of Others and with obviously the strength of God.
- [59:03]
A
So good. So you said rest, rest, restore, restore, connect and create.
- [59:08]
B
Yeah, the two input rhythms are rest and restore because they fill you up. The inner life with God, the physical life with God. And then connect and create are the output rhythms, relationships where you serve others. And then the create is the vocational work that you, you do. Like this.
- [59:24]
A
That's beautiful. I love that so much. And I think that's really easy for you guys to like remember those four things, write them out, put them on your mirror, you know, whatever you need to do to remember those. Because that's super helpful and really good practical steps of, you know, the importance of our quiet life. You were saying Jesus would withdraw and get alone with the Father. That's so important for us to make sure we're doing that daily, consistently, all the time. And then restoring, making sure our physical bodies, we're getting outside, we're going on walks, we're doing that resistance, we're eating healthy. And then we talk about on this podcast all the time, the importance of community and local community. Being a part of a local church, having people around you in your day to day life that know you, that you're connecting to deeply. There's nothing wrong with. I have lots of besties that live all over the country, but I've got to have people here, you know, I've got to build relationships here and that takes effort and sometimes that can be scary. But Grant and I moved to Nashville and we're constantly looking for ways to connect with people and to be with people. And we're going to hang with Gabe and Rebecca here soon. And we're just, we're constantly looking for ways to put ourselves out there because that is so important for you to have that in person connection. And then you said create, which is so fun. We were all put here on this planet for a purpose and for a reason and to, to give the gifts that God has given us back to God and to create something beautiful with our life is how we worship him and how we give back to him. And so I think that was so helpful and so beautiful. So thank you so much for sharing. Being so vulnerable, I love like it's, it's something that inspires me because it doesn't come natural to me. Like I have to fight for vulnerability. And so when I'm with someone who just does it so beautifully and is just like, here's my life and here's the things I've struggled with, I'm like, yes, and I need to do that better. And it's inspiring and it does. It connects and it creates empathy. And so thank you for sharing your story with us and your wisdom with us. And I am going to link Rebecca's books and the podcast and all the things in the show notes because I know it's going to be super, super helpful for everyone listening to to go and dive in more. But super grateful for you. Welcome to or. Thanks for coming on Stay True and being a part of the True crew. We're very thankful and blessed to have you.
- [61:43]
B
Love you, girl. This is a joy.
- [61:44]
A
Yay. We love you. Okay, guys, as always, be sure to stay you Stay True. We love.