← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
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This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and AI agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com three times. That was the second. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director, stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent. So minutes. Create your own AI agent. Today on Monday dot com.
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What was it like growing up as a Muslim?
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I didn't know anything better. I thought, okay, well, this is Life. At age 9, it was mandatory to wear hijab. Any reason we could have been arrested? Majority of people are absolutely done with Islam.
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C
What is the cost for someone who is a Muslim who decides to convert to Christianity? What are the differences between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith?
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Their encounter must be so true that Jesus is the Lord and Savior to them because they know their yes could mean yes to losing their life.
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You're all one day going to be face to face with God. And the answer is not I did enough good. It's Jesus. I put my faith in you.
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People are coming to faith at an unprecedented rate. Iranian women are being wasted. Their purpose is is being wasted because.
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C
What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout and you guys, today's conversation is truly one of the most eye opening conversations that we have ever had. On Stay True, I get to sit down with Lily Meshi, who was born and raised in Iran in a Muslim family before moving to the United States at 18 years old. And y', all, this conversation challenged me, stretched me, and honestly gave me so much more compassion. Compassion and understanding for things I think a lot of us hear about but don't fully understand. And so today we're going to be talking about what life was actually like for Lily growing up in Iran, the reality many women face behind closed doors, and the questions that eventually led her to explore Christianity and ultimately give her life to Jesus. We talk about what conversion from Islam really cost someone, why faith can be such a dangerous topic in certain parts of the world, and the difference between knowing about God versus actually having a relationship with him. We also have a really honest conversation about the war and tensions happening in the Middle east right now, the misconceptions people often have about Iranian people, and how we as Christians can approach these conversations. And I truly think this is one of those conversations that will stay with you long after it ends. So without further ado, let's welcome Lily Meshi to Stay True. Lily, welcome to Stay True podcast. It's so good to have you here in Tennessee.
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Yes, it is so good to be here in Tennessee. I love Tennessee. Every time I come to visit, I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe I should move here.
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C
You should. I feel like it is like the place. I feel like everyone is moving here, but you are also in an amazing place. And I'm so excited. I was telling you this right before we started recording that. I've never had a conversation like this on Stay True podcast. And so I'm so excited to dive deeper into your story, into your conversion from Islam to Christianity. I'm so excited to hear what you're doing with your ministry and how you're reaching people all across the world and just seeing incredible transformational stories from, from people going from death to life and coming to know Jesus and being set free from all sorts of different things. So I'm so excited to dive into that and I want to just start and we can kind of dive into your story from this, but I just want to hear, like, what was it like growing up as a Muslim? What was it like growing up in Iran?
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I didn't know anything better. When I was born in Iran, I thought, okay, well, this is life. It was very patriarchal. Male domination was very resident there. Women in general were treated as second class citizens. They didn't have executive jobs. If they did, it would be, you know, entry level jobs. And so I always thought, okay, well, what would, what would be the future for me? You know, I always wanted to be a professional. I always looked up to my dad. He was a entrepreneur. He basically was self made. And everywhere he went, like, he really respect and honor followed him. And I was like, I want to grow up just like him. I want to be honorable, honoring and successful and I couldn't see that for me, though, because I was a girl, I was like, I don't know if I can ever attain that type of success and honor again. Inequality was very, very resident in Iran growing up. At age nine, we had, we had to, it was mandatory to wear hijab. We had to wear a scarf to basically cover our head and hair. And it was just, we were too young to do that. It was very off putting, but at the same time, everyone else did it and we had to follow the rules every time we went out to the streets. When I say we, my two sisters and I, we were always nervous to go out in the streets. My mom and dad were always worrying about us because for any reason we could have been arrested. We could have been taken to the, to a police station for any reason at all. If we did anything wrong, if a couple strands of our hair was not covered properly, they could have just arrest us. Anything we did that they, they didn't. Like, they didn't even have to have a old.
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C
You said starting at nine.
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E
Starting at nine. Wow.
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C
So a nine year old could be arrested for a little bit of her hair showing.
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E
Yes, but that's unlikely though. I'm talking about, like when we got older. They start making it mandatory at age 9. But like when I was, I would say 15, 16, right around the time when we left Iran as a teenager, if we put on any makeup, they could have, we could have been arrested or, you know, we didn't wear our hijab properly. They didn't even have a, they didn't have to have a. Cause they could have just arrested us. And so anyways, growing up there was very difficult because, like, I'm looking back, I'm like, oh, my gosh, there was so much fear, insecurity and shame.
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C
Wow.
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E
Like we, we were, we were ashamed to be arrested. We were shamed out in the streets. They could have yelled at us, like, why your hijab properly? Or what? Why are you wearing? Or stuff like that. Like, they would just shame us and yell at us and they were patrolling all the neighborhoods. They, I mean, they just mistreated people. That's what I remember from, from Iran.
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C
And it feels like it's kind of like everyone is feeling this, this like spirit of fear and shame and control and all of that.
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E
Okay. Anger, I never forget. Like, when I, when I think of Iran, I was 16 when, when my family and I left Iran. And this is like over what, 30 years now that we haven't been back. But when I think of Iran. I just. Angry faces of people comes to mind. People were so angry because of how unhappy they were, because of the spirit of Islam is influencing them in every which way, you know, and honestly, Islam, now that I'm out of it, now that I studied about it, does promote violence and anger. And anyone that doesn't really comply with you, you can easily become angry at them. And if they're not following your rules, you may actually get killed. You know, things like that. So, yeah, that's, that's how my growing up was. Uncertainty, fearful, controlled by the government.
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C
Yeah, that's so interesting because I feel like Islam is a religion that proclaims peace. Like, I feel like when people hear, it's like, oh, it's, it's peaceful, it's peaceful. But I love that you're talking about. No, it's actually violent and it's controlling and there's so much anger and there's so much fear. Fear and shame. For those who are being told, like, this is the way. You have to believe. This is the thing you have to choose. And when you are raised in somewhere like Iran, like, are you. Do you have a choice in your religion, or is it like you are born there and you automatically have to be a practicing Muslim? Like, what is that?
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Like? Yeah, after the Revolution of 1979, the Islamic Republic of Iran, anyone that is born in that country is automatically a Muslim. And if you're anything else, say, if you, you know, go to some sort of governmental office and say, I'm a Christian or I'm Baha' I or any other sort of a minority type of religion in Iran, oh, you, you, you get persecuted because if, you know, if you're something other than Islam, you shouldn't be there, you should be arrested, you should be in detention. Why did. And now that you have converted, you know, crime of apostasy is something that you have committed. You're an infidel now. And, you know, they, they just arrest them, keep, keep them in detention, persecute them, sometimes even execute them or send them to exile. Yeah. So we don't have a choice. Freedom is very unreached in Iran. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, of your creativity, your style. Freedom in general is not reached easily in Iran.
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C
And what is the overall response to this type of government system? Like, are the people there like, a devout Muslim and I love where I live, or is it like, I am desperate for this to change? We like this feeling of oppression. Like, what kind of, what is the response to this type of government?
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Absolutely majority of people are absolutely done with Islam Now. Before. Before the revolution happened, people thought that an Islamic republic would bring, you know, would bring order, equality, justice for all, all that. And so people were the ones that asked for Islam to enter into government and to have that. That sort of governmental system. But after 47 years of Islamic rule in Iran, now people are realizing that not only did it not solve any issues that they were faced with before, it actually created more issues. And people are more desperate for change. They want freedom. The protests that are erupting almost every couple of years, people. People protest, they get killed, they get silenced, crushed. And then a couple of years later, something triggers, you know, another protest. And the same cycle has been happening. Majority of people are desperate for the regime to fall or democracy to come to Iran and to. To be able. Freedom of choice and expression and speech and experience justice in Iran, man.
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And what with, like, even, I mean, the war going on and everything happening right now, what are the people feeling? And do they even have a voice, like, I think about here in America? It's like there's so much about, you know, liberation, and here's my voice, and here's my opinion, and I'm going to get my opinion. Everyone has a podcast, everyone has a book, everyone has, you know, and there's very much like a practicing of freedom of speech here, and everyone's able to really get out their thoughts. What is that like in Iran? And how are, you know, the. Do you say Iranians? Is that how you say it? How are the Iranians responding to what's going on right now with us and Israel and Iran and kind of the surrounding areas?
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Iranians don't have a voice. They feel. In fact, they feel like they're voiceless. And a lot of us here in the diaspora try to be their voice, try to echo their true stance with the government, with everything else that is going on. You know, one of the things that triggered the most recent protests, which started last year, December of last year, and it went on all the way until end of February, even into March of this year, which was the economic challenges. People cannot afford to put food on their table. Majority of people. The inflation is so unchecked because of all the sanctions that are on the country, that they don't have access to a lot of things and prices are just jumping up and they can't afford anything. And this is. So. This is a harsh reality. But I learned about this recently. So the salary of an average person in Iran, basically like 5 million to month. And so for them to be able to purchase 1 pound of ground beef, it's like 20, it's like 2 million toman. It's like, how do you pay for your rent, how do you pay for any clothes, anything else to make a living when half your salary goes to, to buy one pound of meat? It's just so unchecked and it's so unreal that when, when they talk about it, we're like, how do they afford to do anything? They can't do anything. So that's why they started protesting. They're like, enough is enough. We need, we need, not only do we need freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of all that, all kinds of freedom, we need some sort of stability in our economics. Like we, we can't even afford anything. So, so these challenges lead people to, to protests and they don't want this. They absolutely don't want it. They want the regime to fall.
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C
I'm curious, when you grow up in an environment like that, what are you being taught about other religions? Like what were you taught as a Muslim? How did you view Christians and Jewish and I mean any other religion? I'm curious.
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So in schools we were indoctrinated to only honor Islam as one and true religion because Islam had you worship and honor one and true God and all the other religion out there are false and we need to reject them, we need to not even listen to them so they actually make it in a way like they guilt trip kids to even learn about other religion. Close your eyes and just blindedly follow a religion and not ever learn about any, any other world religions out there or have a different worldview of what do I want to practice in life, who do I want to become? They just have you blindedly follow a religion of their choice. Wow.
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C
And what for you, I would love to hear the difference between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith. For those who are listening and maybe you know, in the opposite way, they're like, I've just always been a Christian or like I've only ever heard about the Christian faith. Like I don't know much at all about the Muslim faith. I would love for you to share a little bit of now, having lived in both worlds, having been a Muslim and now convert, converted to a Christian, what is the, the difference, you know, what are the differences between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith?
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You mentioned, you, you touched on, they say Islam is a religion of peace. So Islam itself is a military term which translates to submission. So if you submit to their rules and regulations and laws, then yes, Everything is at peace. But if you don't submit to them, it's a religion of violence. That's why we see people strap bombs around themselves and go to, you know, public places or you know, twin tower, all that, because it's like, no, we want to destroy anyone that doesn't submit to Islam. And so the danger is that a lot, a lot of the governmental positions that are being taken by Muslims, it's all or nothing. So Islam is not just, okay, this is just my religion and I'm going to practice it and I'm going to keep it to myself. Islam wants to overtake every aspect of life, school systems, finances, you know, mandatory hijab. And they want to come, they want to convert everyone around them to Islam. It's called Jihad. That's like we have the Great Commission to go and make disciples in Christianity. Jihad is like go and overtake, you know, every part of the society and make them obey and follow Islamic rules and laws. And that's why we need to be very careful here in the west to be choosy in our governmental system who we are going to choose and who is going to influence our systems here.
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Yeah, so true.
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Absolutely.
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I mean Iran Alive Ministries, the ministry that I'm a part of, we produce a documentary, it's called the Great American Conflict. So what we did as Muslim background believers, we brought to light some of the challenges that Islam actually caused us as, as Muslims and how we all fled a country such as Iran being ruled by Sharia law. And, and we don't want to go back there. We don't want any of those influences here in the West. And it is to serve a warning here in the west that be careful what your community is, is being made up of. Be careful who your kids are hanging around, be careful what type of teachings they're being, being fed. And so it's, it's, it is to serve a purpose and that is to warn Americ the growth of Islam so that we won't, we won't become like Europe and the UK and places like that being overtaken by, by Muslims. So the, there are so many differences. I mean it's not even comparable in terms of faith. I mean everything is controlled by Islam. When you follow that, that religion, I mean it's a religion, it's, it's, it's a man made rules and laws that you're following to try to get to God and try to earn God's favor. There's absolutely no guarantee whether or not you will have eternal life. It's just, you know, they. They call it. We hope that, you know, helping the needy would earn us enough points so that we can be in heaven one day. Whereas you have a personal relationship through Christ, you can boldly go to his throne. And you know that your identity has changed. You are a new creation in Christ. You are sons and daughters of the most High God, indwelling of the Holy Spirit in us after we come to faith, teaching us all the things that we need to know about leading our lives, having a surrendered life out of the divine love that he has poured into our hearts so that we can serve a purpose that he has prepared for us in advance. And so it is not even comparable. I mean, every single day you were praying about God. We're so grateful that, you know, we get to serve you. Every day I'm like, why would. What would I do without Christ in my life? Where would I draw hope and trust and security? How could I anchor myself in this fallen world with all the chaos going on around us, with all the crisis of all kinds? How could I live without Jesus in my life? Whereas when I was a Muslim, I tried to connect with God. I was doing all their prayers. I was taught to do that. If I didn't do it, I would be. I would be shamed not to follow their rules. And so I tried to connect with God. I tried to talk to God, but I didn't even know that I could speak my own language, Farsi, to God, because they say Islam is in Arabic type of language. So, I mean, you read in Arabic, whereas you don't even understand what you're reading. You have to pray in Arabic. You don't even know what you're saying. I mean, what kind of a God is that, that you can only speak to him in Arabic?
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Yeah.
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And so there's no connection. There is no comparison.
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Yeah. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. I think summer can bring a lot of pressure to make everything feel meaningful and exciting all the time. There's this expectation that because the days are longer and everyone's TR. Traveling or making memories, you're supposed to feel fully refreshed and thriving. But honestly, for a lot of people, summer can feel overwhelming, too. It can throw off your routines in a way that leave you feeling stretched thin, overwhelmed, or honestly just exhausted trying to keep up with everything. And I think one of the healthiest things you can do is make time to check in with yourself mentally and emotionally instead of waiting until you're completely burned out. That's why BetterHelp is such a great resource. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30, 000 licensed therapists and more than six served globally. They'll match you with a therapist based on a short questionnaire so you can focus on your goals. And if your match doesn't feel right, you can switch therapists anytime and people genuinely love the experience. Better Help has an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on 1.7 million client reviews asking for support. Processing your thoughts and learning healthier boundaries doesn't mean you're weak. It means you're being intentional about becoming healthier in every area of your life. You don't have to say yes to everything. This summer, find support in therapy, sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com StayTrue that's better H E L P.com StayTrue you guys know we talk a lot on this podcast about purpose and really seeking the path God has for our lives. And when it comes to education, I truly believe that path should lead to something meaningful. That's one of the reasons I love Grand Canyon University. GCU is a private, non profit Christian university located in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, and they are they are passionate about making education an affordable path forward for students who want to grow in their faith and in their calling. What I really love about GCU is that they are grounded in Christian truth and focused on equipping the next generation to lead with integrity and serve with purpose, which is something I know so many of you care about too. And they've actually kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for 17 years. Plus in 2025 alone, they awarded over $404 million in institutional scholarships. So whether you're looking to earn your degree on campus or online, you can pursue your purpose at gcu, private Christian affordable nonprofit. Visit gcu Edu to learn more. I love that you're drawing the difference between this like dead religion versus this alive relationship. And also that you were pointing to the fact of that that's what's so beautiful about Christianity is that Jesus is like, you can't do enough good to come to me, so I'm going to do it all to get to you, to bring you to me. And I'm going to lay down my life for you so that in me you can have life. And I I love also just the certainty we can have. As scripture says that if you believe in your heart and you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will be saved. There can Be a certainty. If you deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow him every single day that you're going to heaven versus other religions where it's like, well, I hope so. I hope I did enough good that outweighs the bad and that maybe God will look at me as favorable. It's like, no, you're all one day going to be face to face with God. And the answer is not, I did enough good, It's Jesus, I put my faith in you. You did all the good, and it's the finished work of Jesus Christ that gives me the ticket to get into heaven. And so I love that you drew the differences there because I do think that sometimes as Christians, we think, okay, to be loving. Like, we just need to like, accept and like, you know, there's a lot out there of like, it's all the same God, you know, like the Muslim God and the like, all of them same God, right? Christian God, Jewish God, like, they're all the same God. And it's like, no, no, no, they're
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not the same God.
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They're not the same God at all. And I also love that you were saying you, you couldn't connect. Like, you were following all the rules and you still couldn't connect. And I, I'm so grateful that you drew those differences and that you were also talking about the danger of this growing, like, Islamic religion and agenda even here in America. And I think something that fires me up as like a Christian is to encourage Christians one to know what you believe, to share what you believe, but also to get married and have a lot of babies. Because the reason that Islam is growing so much is because of this apple.
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Absolutely.
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C
I mean, they're having so many babies. And I'd love for you to talk about that of just. You touched on it earlier about how women and girls are treated in the Islam religion, but I would love for you to even dive a little bit deeper into that, because isn't it like very normal where a man can have multiple wives and have lots and lots of babies and that's kind of like one of the big agendas of the Islamic religion?
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Absolutely it is. It's part of the jihad. Overpopulated the earth so that we can take over. Polygamy is very, very prevalent in Islam. And a man can have up to four wives at the same time as long as he treats them equally. A woman cannot marry other men at the same time. They're to serve men's desires and just, just be there. They're more treated as possessions than than a human being who's got their own identity and purpose. There's a Kingdom assignment on every single one of us. Iranian women are being wasted. Their purpose is being wasted because they have no idea who they are, why they're created, why on earth are they here for? And they're just being mistreated. My own story. I was a victim of an arranged marriage at age 18. At that time, I was still a Muslim, and I had no clue who I was in. In God. I had no clue who I belonged to. And I let, you know, a man who was 14 years older than me mistreat me. I was in a very toxic, an abusive relationship that I stayed in, thinking that everyone suffers, and this is my portion. And so I came to faith after about a year into this very toxic marriage, which was Islamic influence. And, you know, our culture in Iran is so influenced by Islam that we can't even tell the difference. Like, is this Islamic or is it not? Like, it's intertwined in our culture, and
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C
arranged marriage is very normal.
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Absolutely.
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Is it. Is that, like, what basically happens for everyone? Is there ever situations where it's like, oh, I fell in love. This is the person I choose, or is it kind of like it's always
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set up so in modern days, girls and guys actually choose who they want to marry. But as I mentioned, because of the male dominance in Iran, fathers have so much influence over their kids because they're the, you know, breadwinners. They're. They're the providers. They're the ones that are giving life to, you know, their kids. And so their ward has a lot of influence and power over their kids still. So the arranged marriages, like, you know, arranged marriage. Whenever I. We hear about arranged marriages, we're like, okay, someone marries another man, like a girl marries another man without even knowing who he is and all that. So these are in traditional, you know, description. It is true. But arranged marriage in my case was more circumstantial. It was like, okay, our circumstances tell us that you should marry this person because this person is helping me establish a business here, and a lot is at stake. Mine was a lot about circumstances that, okay, blindedly go marry this person because he's well off. It wasn't. It wasn't in the traditional sense. It was circumstantial. Yeah, I stay. I stayed in that marriage even after I came to Christ. I brought so much baggage from my. My Islamic faith into my newfound faith as a new believer, thinking that it's all about performance. You touched on that. Like, we don't need to do anything. He did it all for us.
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He.
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There's nothing that would get you brownie points with, with Christ. You're already loved, you're already chosen, you are already anointed, you are already complete in Him. And so here I was as a new believer. I had heard that divorce is against God's will. And I was like, if I get divorced from this abusive person that is just ruining my life in every aspect. If I get a divorce, then I have a stain on my spiritual resume with God and then I'm not a good Christian. Oh no, I rather just suffer than ruining my relationship with God, with Christ than I knew. And so I stayed in that marriage because I thought, well, my new found faith was based on my performance. Little did I know the Father's heart is not that. He wants us to live in peace, in being able to follow our kingdom assignment, in fulfilling his purpose for our life. The life we're living is not about suffering, it's not about struggling, although we may do that, but not by choice, because he wants us to go through life and learn and experience and draw closer to him and all that. But we're not going to choose struggle and choose suffering because of some skewed mindset that God wants us to go through that. So it wasn't the case for me. And I've learned so much from my mistakes of misunderstanding who the true God is, what his heart is, what his desire is for his children. And so I want, I, I have this passion for new believers that when you come to faith, please just dig deep in the word of God, you know, walk with a mentor who's been in faith for a long time so that you don't fall into the same trap. I fell into misinterpreting God's heart for his children.
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C
It's so true. It's so easy to do that there can be such spiritual shame and also such like the word of God can feel so intimidating. And you can even read, you know, parts of scripture, take it out of context, misinterpret it, you know, use it to your own advantage or disadvantage either which way. And if you don't have people to really process it with and ask questions to who are a few steps ahead of you. And it can be really dangerous, it can be really confusing. It can cause some people to fall away. It talks about like the, the scattered seeds in scripture, the parable of the scattered seeds and how, you know, there's different things that create an inability of true growth and relationship with Jesus. And, and I really believe that some of that is like just a. You like hear about the faith and you have so much joy in your heart, but then you like read the Bible or you attend a church and someone has a moral failure or you read something you don't understand and then you're just like, okay, I'm out. And I'm so grateful that you stuck in the faith that you found those people. I want to hear what was that conversion like for you from Muslim to Christianity? What was that moment like? What did that look like? How did it come about? Like, how did you make that decision? And did it cost you a lot? And what is the cost for someone who is a Muslim who decides to convert to Christianity? I know for you, you were already in the United States. But even if we want to kind of take it back to maybe those who, and get a little bit into what you guys are doing now, but for those who are making the decision, you know, in somewhere like Iran to go from Muslim to Christianity and kind of what that cost is like. But I would love to hear like your full conversion story and what happened and why you made that decision.
- [36:32]
E
Of course. So one year into my very toxic marriage, when I was at the lowest spot, point and place in my life, I, it was at the end of the rope. I was like, I am 19 years old and this is the life that I'm experiencing. There is no future for me. I'm done there. I don't want to live with this person. He doesn't let me go. I'm trapped. And this is life for me. And no one could help me because he was very manipulative. He was, you know, he would do anything and everything to get his own way by guilt tripping people and by harassing people and all that. No, no one could help me at that point. So when I was in that place, my parents invited me to go to their house because they had a few friends over. I was so reluctant to go to my parents house because I was at odds with them at that point. They sort of caused this whole marriage to happen. And I saw them as, you know, predators, like people that actually made this happen. And after I got married, then they wanted me to leave him. And then I was like, this is not just to me, this is not fair. Why are you doing this to my life? All that kind of stuff. So I was very distrusting towards my, my own parents, anyone around me. And so I went there wrapped in depression. I mean, I was so numb to myself and so as soon as I walked in, there was a wave of joy and love just pressing in. It was resident in their home. And I walked in, I was like, whoa, what is going on? Like, every other time that I walked in, there was always chaos, you know, strife. We were all fighting with each other. There was no peace. We were just in a very chaotic place. And so I walked in, I felt so, so much love. They, their friends just embraced me, pulled me in. They were like, oh, my gosh, we're so glad you're here. All that. They started sharing the gospel, very little. And then they showed us Jesus film in Farsi, the one that. It's an older version back in 1979, Campus Crusade. It was just, you know, very, very old version of it. I started watching it. And granted, growing up, I grew up watching religious figures, movies and films to learn from it and all that. One thing that stood out with this film that was very different than any other, you know, Islamic religious films was that it wasn't trying to promote a religion. I felt compassion. I felt the compassion that Jesus actually portrayed for humanity, whereas all the other religious movies and films and all that that I had ever watched was to promote or uphold Islam. And so that was that. That kind of stood out to me, like, compassion for humanity, a religion, all that. So it's. That was different then. My. My only question was that how can a man be God? Because growing up, they taught us the only true God is up in the heavens somewhere, and he's untouchable. He is looking down to see who's making mistakes so he can punish you. He is this angry God. There was. There was no kindness. I. Yeah, God is merciful, but then he's waiting for you to make a mistake, so he makes sure that you get punished for that. And so that's why people want to do good, so that they would earn points to get to heaven so that they won't get cursed by the God that's out there. So this was what we were taught. When I watched that, I was like, oh, why? There's so much love and kindness. And, like, it wasn't even comparable. And so my question was, like, how can a man be God? And that is the very question a lot of Muslims have. And they basically suppress that question because they're taught not to learn about any other religion out there. And so.
- [41:08]
C
And Jesus is like a good teacher in the eyes of many Muslims, right? Like, that's kind of all. We're. We're not going to acknowledge him. He's not fully God, but he's a good teacher.
- [41:18]
E
Year. Yes, absolutely. I'm glad you mentioned this. All we, all I knew about Jesus was that Jesus was one of the greatest prophets among many others. Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, all the rest of them. He, they would put Jesus in the same category of all the prophets. The only difference was Jesus performed many miracles, more than all the rest of them. That's the only distinction we know. But they say that Jesus was not crucified. It was someone else in place of him on that cross. It was all for the show. The resurrection is so discounted. And they, they don't even think that resurrection actually happened. I had that in mind. I was so. I was trying to be polite and not say anything to offend them as Christians, but that was in my head. When I got up to leave after, after the film was over at the door, one of the girls there followed me and said, lily, I know what you're going through is horrible. No 18 year old should go through what you went through. We know that you struggled, but I want to tell you that there is hope in Jesus. And I had no idea what she was talking about. I was like, wait, you mean like Jesus can pull me out of the dungeon I'm in. She was like, let's talk about it. So she, she sat down with me and she opened up the Word of God to John, the Book of John. And she started reading from the, from the Book of John. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. Then she skipped over to John 1:14 and she said, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And the moment she read those two verses, tears were rolling down my cheeks. I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus was my Lord and Savior and he was God himself. Because, I mean, I could not argue with that. In the beginning was the Word, The Word was with God, the Word was God. Then the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Like the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to me so vividly that I had no more questions about it. So it is both the power of the Word of God when we share our faith, as well as the encounter with the, with the Holy Spirit, because it's the revelation that allows us to have that personal encounter with, with the Lord. And so I had that and I was like, what do I need to do to become a Christian? And she couldn't believe what she was hearing. She was like, wait, I haven't even started sharing the gospel with you. It was funny.
- [44:06]
C
You're like, All I needed was that. All I needed was the Word. Yeah, it talks about in scripture. Faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God. And I believe that everything you just said is so true. And that's why we're called to share the gospel. It's what you guys are doing. And I wanna talk about that. I also wanna talk about the fact that it seems like I've seen so many stories all over social media and that so many Muslims are coming to know Jesus through dreams. And I want to hear about that because I'm sure you've heard of countless stories or met different people where that has been the case. Why is it that Jesus is meeting so many Muslims in dreams? What is happening in these dreams? Why are they converting because of a dream? I'm just so curious what you would say to all of that.
- [44:45]
E
Absolutely. So I always say, you know what we do at Iran Alive Ministries, we proclaim the gospel in Iranians ethnic language in Farsi. And a lot of, you know, for the past 25 years being on the satellite TV, a lot of people in Iran, majority of them know about our, our work, you know, how we share the gospel, discipleship, all that. So when people see Jesus in their dreams, they contact us. They know we're a Christian channel and they're like, who is this Jesus? I want to learn more about it. He showed up in, in white. They always say in white. Wow. And he made himself known to us. Jesus healed me when I was physically sick. He show, he showed up in my dream. He told me that I am healed. I saw Jesus in my dream, that after that there's a peace or a calm that I cannot understand. I want to know more about this Jesus you're talking about. It's mostly about that. And I always say we are just got Jesus hands and feet on a very small scale. And he himself shows up in people's dreams and visions to make himself known to them. He has rolled up his own sleeves because of so much restrictions that are going on. You mentioned about the cost of following Christ. When people come to Christ in Iran, when they say yes to Jesus. I mean, you mentioned it. I said yes to Jesus here in America. And there was very little persecution, little to none. That I went through a lot of the persecutions. For instance, like in my marriage, the person that I was married to would come home and see me read the word of God. He would just grab the Bible and throw it across the room and be like, this is all nonsense. Why are you doing this? Even though he Himself proclaimed to be a Christian, but he was just going back and forth a lot and all that. So that type of persecution, you know, not like death or life type of a situation for. For people in Iran, they know so the. I always say their encounter must be so true that they know that they know that they know that Jesus is the Lord and Savior to them, that they say yes because they know their yes could mean yes to losing their life.
- [47:35]
C
Wow.
- [47:36]
E
Yes to losing their livelihood, yes to everything. They may lose their family, they may lose their kids, but they're willingly say yes to Jesus because Jesus has revealed himself to them somehow.
- [47:50]
C
That is so powerful because here in America, I feel like we treat it so casually, you know, we treat the word of God so casually. We treat. Going to church, Jeff. I feel like it so casually. Everything's so casual, Casual Christianity. And what you're saying is their faith is so real to them. It's so important to them. This encounter they've had with Jesus, that changes everything. They're like, I'm so willing to follow this Jesus even if it costs me everything. And that's what Christianity should look like, you know, is like to live as Christ, to die is gain. It's all about Jesus. I'm going to deny myself, pick up my cross and follow Him. It's not supposed to be comfortable. It's not supposed to be convenient. It's not supposed to be casual. It's supposed to be your life. And although, yes, it is so different here in America, I love that you're pointing this out, and I think it's so powerful and so cool that the Lord reveals Himself in all sorts of different ways. Because I hear, you know, an argument that people make all the time who choose not to be Christian or whatever it may be, whether they're atheists or they don't really, you know, believe in anything or whatever. It's like, well, you know, what if I, you know, what if someone grows up somewhere where they don't have access to a Bible, or they don't have access, or they're just taught this one religion and they don't know anything, anything outside of that. And I think this is such a testimony of. And it talks about that in Romans 1. Like, there. There will not be anyone who has not been given some type of opportunity. Like the Lord says in Scripture that He wants all to come to know Him. He doesn't want anyone to perish. And he says that no one will be without excuse. Like he will reveal himself, whether it's through creation, through A dream through someone sharing the gospel. And everyone will have some type of opportunity to make that decision. And that gives me so much peace. But I also love that you're just showing there's so much like our God is alive and our God is so relational. And when you have an encounter with him, you can't deny it. Even just like reading the word of God, it says that the word of God is alive and active. And that's why when someone read John 1 to you, it did something to your spirit. And you're like, I want to know this God. I wanna kind of end this conversation with just hearing what you've mentioned it a little bit. But what you guys are doing, how you're sharing the gospel and what that looks like in different parts of the world, because like you said, the cost is greater. And I'm sure you're having to do that in very strategic ways. And I also wanna know, like, how we, as Americans, for those who are listening, who feel like this is kind of out of touch, out of mind, like, I don't really know people in that part of the world or how does this affect me? Or. But as Christians, like, how should we be praying for our brothers and sisters in these Islamic nations? And, you know, how should we be caring for them or. Yeah, praying for them or reaching out to them? And how do we share the gospel with Muslims? I just. I would love to hear kind of your perspective on these things. You guys know I'm really passionate about making decisions that align your faith with your values, especially when it comes to your family. And one area where that can really feel challenging right now is healthcare. Costs keep rising and it's hard to feel confident that you're choosing the right path. That's why I wanted to share something I've been learning about called Liberty Health Share. It's not health insurance, it's a healthcare sharing ministry, which means you're joining a community of believers who come together to help carry one another's medical expenses. And what I love about it is that it's not just practical, it's rooted in faith. 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- [53:14]
E
So what, what we do is very strategic. Like you mentioned, we share the gospel in every way possible. Every content we produce, the gospel is just weaved into it. Whether it's for next generation, for kids, for adults, marriage, parents, everything. Everything we produce in our little studio in Dallas, Texas is all with one purpose. And that is to share the gospel, the good news of who Christ is, with Iranians that are mostly Muslim. And so that's how we share and proclaim the gospel. But then when they contact us, we basically connect them with underground church network in their own region, in their own community. And that's when it becomes very strategic because safety is an issue. We have to. They have to be very careful to follow certain protocols not to get found out. You know, Bible distribution is very, very difficult in Iran. I mean.
- [54:20]
C
Yeah, tell me about that. What does it look like? How do they get a Bible? And what is an underground church look like?
- [54:25]
E
Yeah, underground church is when you connect with the. The believers in Iran in such secretive way. Burner phones, all kinds of different strategies that are out there to keep them all safe from the government, from getting found out. Having small groups that they would just pretend that they're going to a party or some. I mean, they all have to be acting a certain way so that they won't alarm the neighbors or the police or, you know, places that are being patrolled and all that. And so they have their own secretive way of meeting and learning from the word of God, having church and all that. And so that's what underground church is. It's an. It's a network of believers in Iran that are connected in secretive ways so that, you know, they. It basically all those protocols would keep them safe against the persecution that the government imposes on them. And so we have church services on our. Our channel for there's an estimated 3 million believers in Iran. We believe that there is a lot more, but that's how many have been professing as Christians and whatnot. And so, so discipleship through our virtual platforms is also another work that we do. Evangelism school. We teach people how to share their faith in a restricted environment such as Iran. You know, how to plant churches in all the different, you know, 31 provinces in Iran, in different regions, different languages, different dialects. It's. It's a very vast and widely spread type of a ministry, and it's. It's very strategic in every step of the way to keep people safe, yet to spread the gospel like wildfire. Yeah, people are coming to faith at an unprecedented rate, and so much so that we feel like we need to train more pastors to shepherd all these new believers that convert to Christianity and what they want to learn more about, about Christ. And so it's just. The rate is so unprecedented that we need to keep up with training pastors to be able to shepherd them.
- [57:00]
C
And they're getting Bibles in their own language. And it. Right. Is that. And is that being distributed through kind of the.
- [57:06]
E
The whole underground church network?
- [57:07]
C
Okay.
- [57:08]
E
So they, I mean, it's so difficult. Like, we probably need to have another episode for this, but they hide the Bible in a plastic, like a grocery bag plastic, and put it in a trash can so that they would go in there so that no one would actually detect what they're doing or hiding them in the bushes behind somewhere. And then they take a picture of it and send it securely to them, hey, go to so and so place and pick it up. And we have five different versions of the Bible on our shelves here. And we just seem to, I myself as, as, as an Iranian American, I take it for granted and, and yet they don't even have access to the word of God.
- [57:55]
C
Yeah, I know. That's where one of my favorite things to do like, is like to sleep next to my Bible. Cause I'm just like, there's such a we, we. So like you're saying we take it for granted. And even scripture talks about like trembling at his word. And there should be such a responsibility, respect and gratitude and fear of God, the right kind of fear of God at his Word and love for the Word. And I'm so grateful for the work that you guys are doing. How can we as Americans, how can we as the true crew, how can we support what you guys are doing? How can we be praying? I would love for you to kind of just end with that.
- [58:30]
E
Yes, absolutely. So the oppression is real in Iran. The, the, the spirit of fear, oppression is real. And we relate that to the Prince of Persia, the same spirit that delayed Daniel in, in the book of Daniel. We feel that the grip of the enemy is so tight on this country because Iran as a country has a calling and that is to be in the center of the Middle east east to become a Christian nation, to be the first Christian nation in the Middle east and spread the gospel and influence all that region in, in the Middle East. And so the enemy knows that. The enemy knows that the influence that Iran can have in the Middle east is very, very big. And so for years people are struggling, people have been struggling because of the spirit that is so resident in Iran. So what I want us to pray for Iran and Iranians is for the, the spirit of oppression and the enemy to be completely lifted off this country. That has kept Iranians in, in crisis mode for many years now. And for Iranians minds and minds and hearts, hearts to be open to the gospel, not to reject it and this spirit of opposition to be lifted off of and this veil to be lifted off their eyes. The way you can support us is by sharing about our ministry, by sharing the testimonies we get. They're more like first centuries testimonies, like you know, the prison doors rattling open. And you know, it's just so many different miraculous things that people are seeing inside Iran because our Jesus is real. He's working among them himself. And so that would be it. I mean, just share the testimonies that are Coming from the field, sharing about our work to your network and help us financially, help us to keep on keeping on sharing the gospel through the satellite TV and discipling believers.
- [61:02]
C
Amen. Amen. And we will include the link so that you guys can do that. You can share all of the assets and resources, you can follow yourself. You can just learn more about what you guys are doing. And I'm so grateful we were praying right before, but I'm just so grateful for what you guys are doing and how you're reaching the world. This is what we're called to do, is to go and make disciples. But we're driven by love.
- [61:26]
E
Amen.
- [61:26]
C
And it's the love of God and it's the gospel of Jesus Christ that changes hearts. And so I'm so grateful for yalls. Yes. And I definitely am saying yes to just partnering in prayer and just fighting for those who can't fight for themselves, being a voice for those who can't be a voice for themselves. And scripture tells us to do that. And so we have a responsibility as Christians and for those of us in America and all over the world to do that and to fight for your brothers and sisters all over. And so I'm so grateful for your testimony. Thank you so much for coming on Stay True and sharing everything that you did. And you're very vulnerable. Like, I'm so grateful for you sharing even the really hard parts of your story. And I'm so grateful for the way God has redeemed it and also your boldness in sharing it. And I know it's gonna and has set so many women and people free and led people to Jesus. So I'm very grateful.
- [62:17]
E
Thank you so much, Maddie, for having me. It's such an honor to meet you in person and to be able to share just a little bit of the testimonies of God's redemptive power in my life and in the life of many, many Iranians that are being set free.
- [62:33]
C
Amen. Amen. And like you said at the end, it's all spiritual. And so just reminding ourselves that we live in a spiritual worlds and we're fighting a spiritual battle. And there's a lot that you can make it in your mind seem like it's just government or it's just parts of the world or it's just these people that are, you know, this way born that it's like, no, no, this is a spiritual war that we're fighting. And there is. There's an enemy that is behind all of this. And so fighting it in your prayer closet is really, really important. But I'm so grateful and we're so grateful and I know everyone listening was so impactful, impacted by this testimony and by this podcast. And please let us know what you took away, what God spoke to you and be sure to follow all that they're doing. And as always, guys, be sure to stay you and stay true. We love you. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact that you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.
- [64:06]
D
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