Biblical Masculinity with Noah Herrin

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt Episode: Biblical Masculinity with Noah Herrin Date: March 9, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

This episode explores the meaning and calling of biblical masculinity, challenging cultural perspectives on manhood and providing practical advice for women and men seeking to honor God in singleness, dating, and marriage. Madison Prewett Troutt, her husband Grant Trout, and guest Pastor Noah Herrin (author of Welcome to Manhood) delve into biblical definitions of manhood, discuss the cultural confusion around gender roles, and offer wisdom on relationships, spiritual leadership, and identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Inspiration Behind 'Welcome to Manhood'

• Noah Herrin shares the inspiration: Observed a unique rise and engagement of young men at his church (Way Church Nashville), contrasting with declining male presence/church engagement nationwide. (05:49)
• Quoting Billy Graham: The three "Gs" of temptation for men—Gold (money), Glory (pride), Girls (lust). Noah structured the book around these key challenges. (06:44)
  • “If you really look at the things that the devil throws at men, almost everything that I could think of fell under one of those three categories.” – Noah Herrin [07:09]

2. Biblical Definition of Manhood

• Not about stereotypes: Being a man is not defined by hunting, building things, or cultural tough-guy tropes, but by a Christ-like model of self-sacrifice, service, and humility. (11:08)
  • "When you read the Bible, what you see is: a man sacrifices, a man puts others first. A man is always looking to protect, provide, and help other people flourish. ... Ultimately, the greatest example of a man that we have was Jesus Christ.” – Noah Herrin [11:08]

3. Contrasting Culture’s View on Manhood

• Culture prioritizes: Wealth, fame, and sexual conquest.
  • "If you marry that [glory, gold, girls], then you're going to look up one day and you're going to be like, ‘oh man, I fell out of love.’ You just built your relationship on the wrong thing, on fleeting things.” – Noah Herrin [30:08]
• Biblical manhood: Jesus subverted cultural values—He “did not come to be served, but to serve.” Contrasts Caesar and Jesus—Caesar’s legacy is a salad; Jesus’ legacy changes eternity. (15:59)

4. The Role of Men and Women: Addressing Feminism and Submission

• Ephesians’ teaching misrepresented: Biblical leadership in marriage is servant-hearted, not oppressive.
  • "That scripture was the most life-giving and empowering thing to the women of Jesus’s day ... That was God saying, ‘hey, men, serve your wife in such a way that it models the way Jesus laid down his life for the church.’” – Noah Herrin [18:13]
• Healthy partnership: Men and women have equal value, different roles. Strong women and strong men do not need to compete; they can thrive together. (20:44)
• The power of affirmation: Wives are called to build up their husbands. Conversely, tearing down with words (nagging, negative scripts) is destructive.
  • “What’s celebrated gets repeated, especially for men.” – Noah Herrin [28:25]

5. How to Spot a Biblical Man: Dating and Marriage Advice

• For women:
  • Don’t settle for potential, look for “proof of fruit.” Is the man living out servant leadership, humility, and spiritual conviction? (35:53)
  • “Potential is a great thing to notice. It’s a horrible thing to date.” – Noah Herrin [35:53]
  • Observe how he treats ex-girlfriends, handles money, time, talent, and if he genuinely serves others (especially when no one is watching). (28:25)
  • “If he is not ready to lead you closer to Jesus and if he's trying to lead you closer to sin, he ain't the man for you.” – Madison [39:00]
• For men:
  • Consistency is key; being present with God daily is the foundation for leadership at home.
    • “People are impressed by what you say, but they trust your consistency.” – Noah Herrin [43:44]

6. Men Leading in Dating/Marriage

• Dating: Men should lead with clarity (“Call it a date!”) and purity (set and honor boundaries). (51:14)
  • “Set the tone for boundaries, for holiness, more than any other thing.” – Noah Herrin [51:14]
• Marriage: Leadership is not about dominance; it is about sacrificial service, humility, and consistently being the first to apologize, show up, and serve. (58:24)

7. Navigating Conflict and Growth in Marriage

• Marriage magnifies everything; “You think marriage will fix it or make that even better ... marriage magnifies everything.” – Noah Herrin [58:24]
• Key question: “Does this thing I’m about to say/do lead us to more unity?” (58:24)
• Grace for the journey: Patterns of arguing can be broken; marriages can be resurrected through God’s power and commitment to unity. (62:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If a man of God is laying down his life as the head of the house for his wife, that is elevating his wife to run in her calling, not suppressing her.” – Noah Herrin [18:13]
• “Don’t date potential. Look for fruit. Proof of the fruit!” – Madison & Noah [35:53, 39:13]
• “What’s celebrated gets repeated, especially for men.” – Noah Herrin [28:25]
• “I would rather be alone and single than alone and married.” – Noah Herrin [47:44]
• “A man of God is not going to ask you to be a woman of compromise.” – Noah Herrin [51:14]
• “People are impressed by what you say, but they trust your consistency.” – Noah Herrin [43:44]
• “How can I fall more in love with Jesus today and then ask it again tomorrow?” – Noah Herrin [67:18]
• Memorable moment: Noah’s story about his and Maddie’s biggest fight and what it taught them about dropping offense, learning each other's “fight language,” and striving for unity. [60:08–62:52]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Welcome & Introduction: [01:56]–[05:21]
• Noah’s Inspiration for 'Welcome to Manhood': [05:49]–[08:57]
• What is Biblical Manhood?: [09:09]–[12:26]
• Contrasting Culture’s Manhood with Jesus: [13:44]–[16:37]
• On Feminism, Submission, Partnership: [16:37]–[21:20]
• Advice for Married Women (When the Husband Isn’t Leading): [25:51]–[28:10]
• On Choosing a Man Worth Following (Dating & Single): [28:25]–[35:52]
• Spotting Boys vs. Men — Practicals: [34:48]–[36:52]
• Encouragement: Don’t Settle, Pursue God’s Best: [39:47]–[41:46]
• Encouragement for Married Men & Setting the Spiritual Tone: [41:46]–[43:44]
• On Friendships, Sex, and Marital Attraction: [43:45]–[45:11]
• How Much Should a Girl Initiate?: [45:21]–[48:28]
• How Men Should Lead in Dating: [51:14]–[54:42]
• The Role of Conviction & Humility: [55:17]–[56:06]
• On Not Being Each Other’s Spiritual Crutch in Dating: [56:06]–[57:39]
• Marriage Insights: Conflict, Commitment, Growth: [58:24]–[64:10]
• Closing Challenge & Final Thoughts: [66:00]–[67:30]

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Final Charge

• To men and women, single or married: Fall in love with Jesus. When you love Christ above all, other pieces—leadership, submission, humility, spiritual maturity—fall into place. (66:00)

  “If you love me, you’ll be the man God’s called you to be. If you love me, you’ll be the woman God’s called you to be. So just take the pressure off and ask, ‘How can I fall more in love with Jesus today?’” – Noah Herrin [67:18]

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Tone & Takeaways:
The episode blends humor, candid stories, and deeply practical advice with scripturally grounded truth. It’s an encouraging, relatable, and challenging resource for anyone who wants to address the confusion around gender, dating, and Christian living with grace and clarity.

Recommended For:
Singles, couples, those struggling to define or encourage godly manhood, anyone seeking practical biblical guidance on relationships and personal growth.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

A man sacrifices. A man puts others first.

[A]

How does a man lead in a dating relationship?

[C]

You need to put yourself in a position where he has to pursue you consistently.

[A]

You need a man that is after God's heart or else he does not deserve your heart.

[C]

Potential is a great thing to notice. It's a horrible, horrible thing to date.

[D]

How do I spot a boy versus a man?

[A]

All you need to know is, is he led by the Holy Spirit? If he's led by the Holy Spirit, then he can lead you well.

[C]

A man of God is not going to ask you to be a woman

[D]

of compromise when you want to date. How much can a girl initiate if

[A]

he is not ready to lead you closer to Jesus and if he's trying to lead you closer to sin, he ain't the man for you.

[D]

Are you a handyman?

[C]

Not a chance.

[D]

Okay, good.

[C]

I play oceans before I go in Home Depot. Every time I feel like I'm going into the great unknown.

[D]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Grant Trout. What with my wife, Maddie Trout. How are you?

[A]

Was. You're really good?

[D]

Really good. I like, was weirdly anxious to do that.

[C]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

That was like some good, like biblical manhood right there.

[D]

Yeah, it was. Huh.

[A]

And I wonder why we did that.

[D]

Because I have on my podcast today one of my most special amazing friends, Pastor Noah Harris.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

Oh, man. I'm so honored to be here.

[D]

Good to have you on the podcast.

[A]

A vet on Stage three podcast.

[D]

Not his first time. First time, no.

[A]

And one of the most highly requested guests to come back on stage podcast.

[C]

I don't know if that is true, but I'm very.

[A]

No, it's actually true.

[E]

It's true.

[C]

Did you pull that out of nowhere?

[D]

Is that actually true?

[A]

True. Per my team, they said that you are one of the most requested guests. Everyone loved our episode on Habits.

[C]

So cool.

[A]

They wanted it around, too.

[C]

I didn't like. I. I knew that this podcast was reaching a lot of people. When I was on the podcast last time I was. I became fully aware of how big of an impact this podcast is having because people that I went to, like, middle school with were sharing it, and I was like, what in the world? And then. And then I started noticing people that I went to middle school with sharing the next episode. So it wasn't just like they were doing it because they went to middle school with me. They're doing it because they love this podcast.

[A]

So I think you may have introed them to the podcast. They're like, noah's on there. Let me go watch.

[C]

Maybe my mom.

[A]

Maybe my mom.

[D]

Hey, if you don't know Noah Heron, this is a brother. A brother to me. This is a. I want to be his Jonathan as long as I can. And Maddie and I go to your church. Way Church. We've said this many times, but we moved to Nashville about a year ago, and there's amazing churches in Nashville, Tennessee, and. And we toured them. And then we just. We went to Way Church. And Noah is 30 years old, close to our age. And we were just like, there's something about your leadership, bro, that we want to follow and come under. And the way the Lord's anointed you just for not even just the books you write the messages. It's your leadership. It's your humility. And, bro, we're so honored to just be friends with you. We're in a life group together. I don't know if we can say that publicly, but we did.

[C]

And it feels good to do it. It feels great. I. You know, I love you guys.

[D]

We love you, bro.

[A]

And you have a new book.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's called welcome to Manhood. I did write an endorsement for it. So I'm just, like, I was not

[D]

asked, but it's, you know, hey, listen, if he writes a third book, I'm assuming I'm going to get that ass.

[A]

You are leading a group on it.

[D]

I'M leading five young men through this book.

[C]

Wow. It's.

[D]

And it's so good. It's so good.

[A]

You could have chosen any book.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And you guys chose welcome to Manhood.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

And it's already impacting these guys so much.

[D]

It's amazing.

[A]

And so we're really excited about this episode because we're going to be talking about biblical manhood. How to be a man, how to look for a godly man, how to wait for the right man. And if you were a girl listening to this, you know, maybe you're married. And how can you come under leadership? How can you let your man lead and how can you encourage him in his manhood and in his leadership? If you are single or dating, what does it look like to find a godly man? What does it look like to wait for one, to pray for one and. Or maybe you're a dude listening and it's just like, come on, rise up. Like, how do you be a man?

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

And I think even we're gonna address some like, you know, what does the Bible have to say about manhood? And we're gonna also address like, what has culture been saying about manhood? And how can men and women come together and partner together to build up the kingdom of heaven and not treat it as competition, not put each other down. I think you see a lot of that in culture today. So I'm really excited about this topic.

[C]

Come on.

[A]

And at first I would love to just hear like, what led you to want to write this book on welcome to Manhood?

[C]

Yeah, I was inspired by the men of our church, Way Church. So when we got to Nashville, we had read all these different statistics about the church, the church that used to be the church that is now. And one of the things that caught my attention was that in most churches the attendance is about 70% women, 30% men. And it's kind of gone in that direction for several decades now. It's just slowly gotten more and more one sided like that. But when we launched Way Church, it was, there's definitely more women for sure, but the men are really rising up and not just attending the church, but leading in the church. And I was super inspired by that. And right in the middle of the church launching and seeing those guys, I watched a Billy Graham sermon. Always a good decision, always. It's the tone, it's the tone, fluctuation.

[D]

And he ain't walking around. Brother is posted at the pulpit.

[C]

He doesn't need to conjure up energy, nothing. So I love Billy Graham. So I, I've, I've watched as many Billy Graham sermons as I, as I possibly can find on YouTube. And I was watching wine. And he was not preaching to men in the sermon, but he kind of went on this tangent that you could tell was not in his notes. And he said this thing about how every man has to overcome the three GS of temptation. Have you heard this before? No. They have to overcome the temptation of gold, the temptation of glory, and the temptation of girls. So money, pride, lust, those three temptations. And when he said that, he went on this thing about overcoming temptation. But when he said that, I was like, oh my goodness, that is so true. Like, if you, if you really look at the things that the devil throws at men, almost everything that I could think of fell under one of those three categories. And so that was the inspiration of the book was like, there's these young guys at our church that are not just in the fight, they're winning the fight against those temptations.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

How can we help other young men overcome those three temptations? So every chapter in the book relates to one of those temptations. It kind of falls underneath the category and hopefully will help guys. Guys win that fight. Man. Dude.

[D]

And, and the way you broke it up is 52 chapters.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Really helpful because they're smaller chapters.

[C]

But tell.

[D]

Just explain how the book is in the four different steps of each chapter.

[C]

Yeah. So I wanted to make it like, I want the content. We were kind of joking before, like I want the content to be challenging and, and raise the bar for guys, but I wanted to lower the bar for the amount of content you had to read. So I just, I just know for me, I really like bite sized stuff. I really like a couple pages. So we made it just a couple of pages each chapter. There's basically a problem. There's a solution, there's a next step. And there's just like some practical like nuggets at the end to try to help guys implement what we talked about. So you can just read it in a couple of minutes. And the whole thought was one chapter for each week. But some guys will choose to read the whole thing and a couple days and other guys are going through it over over a year. But it's really up to. Up to the guy.

[A]

I love that. Okay, so I'd love to just jump straight in on what does it mean to be a man of God? What is manhood according to the Bible?

[D]

Wow.

[C]

I really wrestled with the title of this book. I'm not gonna Lie. Because I.

[A]

Titles are hard.

[B]

Super hard.

[A]

Like, did you write the book? And then you were like, what's the title? I do. You started the title.

[C]

I. Well, most of the time, I start with the title. This book. I did not. This book. I was. I knew what I wanted to do. I knew the goal.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I had a few different titles, and everyone in my life really liked the welcome to Manhood title the most, except for me. And I realized that the reason I didn't like it is because I was insecure. On the way, it would come across as if I was, like, the gatekeeper of manhood. Yeah.

[A]

Welcome to manhood.

[B]

No,

[C]

I'm picturing these guys in my life who are, you know, they have beards, they wear camo.

[D]

Well, let's not bring up that brother from Jacksonville, Florida.

[C]

Listen, that's helping Joby Mario, my guy. You talk about.

[D]

Welcome to manhood.

[C]

Listen, that's literally. I'm thinking, man, Pastor Joby's going to see this, and he's going to be like, welcome to manhood. You know, like, because. Because I. I, you know, I can't. I can't really grow facial hair.

[D]

I'm not the best either.

[C]

Listen, I don't hunt.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I hunt for deals at the mall.

[A]

That's. That's the kind of hunting guys speak each other's language.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And what about, like, hanging up stuff in the house?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Listen, are you a handyman?

[C]

Not a chance.

[D]

Okay, good.

[A]

Every time I'm laughing because Maddie and I have bonded over this.

[C]

I play oceans before I go into Home Depot. Every time I feel like I'm going into the great unknown, bro. Terrified.

[D]

I'm man of the decade when I walk into Home Depot. I used to post it all the time. Every time I walk into.

[A]

He's like, wow. I am the.

[D]

I get gloves and I put them in my back pocket, and then I put, like, a little stuff on my hands.

[C]

We're the same dude. Yeah. We're brothers.

[D]

We are. And that's a. That's a Hooper, though. It's a Hooper. That's Hooper lifestyle.

[C]

Right.

[D]

I was in the gym.

[C]

We were in the gym. We were doing other things. I told Maddie, don't ask me to build something. I build sermons.

[A]

You know, like, that's calling.

[C]

Can't really. So I just felt this insecurity of, like, hey, the way that the stereotypical man looks like, they're definitely. I'm. I'm definitely masculine. Right. I think there's a difference. But just a stereotypical hunting, fishing Building things, working with your hands. Like, that's not my. My gifting. So I felt insecure about it. All that to say when you read the Bible, that is not the prerequisite for being a man. When you read the Bible, what you see is a. A man sacrifices a man, puts others first. A man is always looking to protect, provide, and help other people flourish. And ultimately, the greatest example of a man that we have was Jesus Christ, obviously. And so if you want to be a great man, follow Jesus. Do what Jesus did. Talk like Jesus. Go after the people Jesus went after. Elevate the people that Jesus elevated. Like. Like that's the model for manhood. We could go a bunch of different directions, but really, like, I wanted to set the tone of, like, manhood is not what you. It's not what you look like. It's not even the way people perceive you. It's ultimately the way you pour your life out. That's what biblical man is.

[A]

Hey, friends, it's Maddie. If you've read my new book, Dare to Be True, I would love to hear what you think. Your reviews mean so much to me. They help more people discover the message and the heart behind this book. So if this book has encouraged you, challenged you, or reminded you to live with bold faith and honesty, would you take a minute to leave a review? It truly makes such a difference. And if you haven't gotten my new book yet, Dare to Be True, you can go and find it anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey and for daring to be true right alongside me. Stay True Merch drop. We got a new Stay True Merch collection, you guys. And this is my favorite collection yet. I am wearing the jersey from the Stay True Merch collection. And you guys, it is so amazing. It says Stay True on the front, Stay Free on the back. It's got John 8:32. It is the coolest jersey you've ever seen. But we have sweatshirts, we got T shirts. This is seriously my favorite collection yet. This is the perfect Christmas gift, birthday gift, New year gift to yourself. You guys, you need to check out this new collection. I'm so excited about it. And you can go to Stay True podcast dot com. We'll also include the link to the exact merch landing page in the show notes. You guys gotta go and check it out. Let me know what you think. If you rep it, tag us. We want to see it. Go and check it out, you guys.

[D]

Yeah, that's so good. And culture would say otherwise. And I Feel like Maddie and I have talked a lot about this. Just culture is, is pushing this current of what a man is or should be or shouldn't be.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And take us back, man, just to like, this is what the word says. Because movies and shows and music, it's like it's confused everybody on what a man is.

[C]

Spot on, man. Like, go back to the three GS, right? So gold. What the, what the world's saying is, if, if you want to be a successful man, go make that bread. Go make as much as you can, because that is manhood, right? Glory. Get as many people as possible to know your name, remember your name, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Girls, how do you become, I mean, the largest voices in our culture right now? The way that they view women is like, let's, let's get the hottest, the best, the most, and let's just. That, like, that is who you should aspire to be. That's what culture saying. When you look at where that goes in every single instance, biblically and culturally. Like, I just read a quote the other day from a very well known dude, extremely wealthy, extremely young. And he, this quote was so sad. He basically said, like, I've accomplished everything that I've ever wanted to accomplish and I feel more empty now than I ever have. Right. That is, that is the route that those three roads take you. And then you contrast it with the life of Jesus and it's like he leveraged wealth to grow the kingdom. When you look at glory, he, like, was the only one worthy to be praised. And yet he said, I did not come to be served, but to serve. Then you look at lust and it's like he never sinned. And like you just contrast that. I always think about Caesar in Jesus's day. Caesar, the most money, the most powerful. His. His face was on money. So the most famous, like this dude, was the man. Fast forward 2000 years later. His legacy is the name of a Caesar salad. It's a side salad.

[A]

It's a side salad.

[C]

Like that's what that amounted to. Then you look at the example of Jesus. All the opposite, right? Gave away everything. Serving other people, trying to. Trying to flip the world upside down by doing everything reverse to what the culture was saying. And yet 2,000 years later, there is now no one who's been more followed. There is now no one who's had. Had a greater impact on the world. And so every man desires to live a life that actually lasts and makes an impact. If you want to do that, man, just follow Jesus. Just follow his Example, man, that's so good.

[A]

I also think that there's a narrative being like, talked about and preached in culture today that's like, tear down men, build up women. And this rise of feminism. And you even see, I mean, we've talked about it a lot in certain movies that we'll go to at the movie theaters. It's like this rise of women being leaders and strong and heroic. And then you have these men that serve the women that are passive, that are a little bit more just not leaders. And you know, we walk away from some of those movies and we're like, sure, that was like, that was cool and that was like, maybe well produced. But like, what. The agenda behind this is really flipped and messed up. And I don't know, I just think it's so interesting that in order to, like, make women seem strong, we have to like, put men down. And you just see that messaging in so much of culture today, even so much on Tick Tock, social media, Instagram, it's like, I don't need a man. I can be my own man. Like, I. And then just this rise of just putting men down. And I'd love for you to speak into that too, in that narrative that's being painted today.

[C]

I. I really think that that narrative has, has actually creeped into the church a good bit as well. Where, you know, in Ephesians it says that the man is the head of the house and that scripture is torn apart by people who are not Christians and people who are Christians and people like, wow, that's so oppressive. That's so the devil loves to take scripture and to convince people that it's oppressive or that it leads to death when the, the truth is it always leads to are flourishing.

[A]

Amen.

[C]

Like, anytime God says no or says, this is the parameter. It's not so that we are just like burdens by this weight of rules. It's so that we can be empowered to step into the most life possible. And so that scripture in particular, what I see happening is like, because of the feminist movement, it's like, women in the church are going, no, no, no, no, no. Like, that's an old scripture that's outdated. Like, like, I can be the head of the house. That scripture was the most life giving and empowering thing to the women of Jesus's day. Because women in Bible times had no voice. They, they had no seat at the table. They. They had no say in decisions. That was not, that was not God saying, hey, women are up here, women are down here. That was God Saying, hey, men, serve your wife in such a way that it models or it reflects the way Jesus laid down his life for the church. So that is if. If a man of God is laying down his life as the head of the house for his wife, that is elevating his wife to run in her calling, not suppressing her. Yeah, I think. I don't. I don't want to be that guy who gets on the podcast and just

[A]

like, I'm here, keep going all about the truth here.

[C]

You're going to feel like you're just going. You're going to hate this, because I'm about to talk about you guys. I think you guys are an amazing example of this. Right? Huge calling on Maddie's wife, on Maddie's life. Whenever I watch you guys, her calling does not cause you to shrink back. Like, you are running in your gifting and in your calling as hard as you possibly can, and it is massive. You're not intimidated by her. She's not intimidated by you. You use your words in your life to sacrifice for her and lift her up. And. And what I see for Adam, Matty, is not that she's, like, trying to take your role, that the way you lay down your life for her makes her want to submit to your. Your headship. And so it's this beautiful relationship where the Bible teaches equal value, different roles. So, like, there are roles that Maddie has that are different than yours. Equal value, different roles. You're the head of the house. You're the leader. And so we've got to push back on this feminist agenda. And I think it takes men of God showing women of God how to. To lay down their life. And women of God going, I'm confident enough in who I am and who God's called me to be, that a man thriving is not oppressive to me in any way.

[A]

Amen. That's so good.

[D]

Yeah, that's it, bro.

[A]

That's so good.

[C]

That's it.

[D]

We've got a unique, interesting relationship because, like, you know, I remember the question in Bible study yesterday is, like, what do you do when you have a wife that has a really big calling?

[C]

Yeah, we did.

[D]

And there's this, like, balance of, like, I never want to quench the flame that God's put on your life, and I just want to, like, honor you, Maddie. There's just so many people that have the calling you have that don't respect their husbands the way you respect me. And I'm so thankful. I really am. You. You. You honor me so well. And I'm so thankful for all that you do in that.

[A]

Well, you're so worth following. And I say that often because having a leader worth following is. Is everything. Jesus was a leader worth following. Yeah, I'm married to a man and leader worth following. I want to talk directly to the college women listening right now who love Jesus and are craving more intentional Community. This is for you. Delight Ministries is a college women's community with chapters on over 200 college campuses. Each chapter hosts weekly gatherings with incredible curriculum written just for college women. This gathering unites women on your campus and creates vulnerable conversation centered around Jesus. They also host worship events and fun gatherings that create a true sense of community. It's a place you can be known, challenged and can ultimately change the culture of your entire campus. I actually love this so much because when I think back to my college years, community was one of the biggest things that shaped my faith. I was really involved in my local church and having women around me who loved Jesus, who prayed with me, who asked hard questions, and who encouraged me in my walk with the Lord made such a huge difference in my life. College can feel exciting, but also really overwhelming. And I remember how important it was to have a place where I could show up exactly as I was and be surrounded by women who wanted to pursue Jesus together. That kind of community doesn't just encourage you, it really strengthens your faith and changes the trajectory of your life. And here's the really cool part. If there isn't a Delight chapter already on your campus, you could be the one to start it. Here's how it works. Fill out an interest form. You'll get connected with your own Delight coach who will equip and train you to build a team, become an official campus org, and hopefully see hundreds of girls gathering together in the name of Jesus at your school. If you get the sense that God is calling you to be a leader on your campus, head to delightministries.com start a delight to get started today. It's crazy to think about what God could do through your simple yes, that's delightministries.com start a delight to see revival on your campus. Can we talk about something that doesn't get enough attention? Hormones. I feel like for a long time I didn't really think about how much hormones affect everything. Your energy, your mood, your skin, even how steady you feel emotionally daytoday. But at some point you start noticing these shifts. Maybe your energy isn't as consistent your skin skin changes or you just don't feel quite as balanced as you normally do. That's when I found Glow by Beam. I'll be honest, I went into trying it a little skeptical, but after using it consistently, it's genuinely become one of my daily non negotiables. Glow is a once a day hormone balancing blend that helps support things like metabolism, sleep, skin health, and overall hormone balance. And since I've been using it, I've noticed my energy is steadier, my skin looks brighter, and I just feel like myself again. It's been so, so easy to add Glow to my daily routine. Plus, it actually tastes amazing. I've been drinking the raspberry flavor and I love it. Just one scoop a day. It's only 10 calories. It's caffeine free, gluten free, dairy free, vegan and third party tested. I genuinely look forward to drinking it every day. And don't just take it from me. More than 40,000 women have tried Glow and it has more than 3,000 reviews on their website. This year, I'm choosing habits that last and Glow has become one of them. And now for a limited time, Beam is offering my listeners up to 35% off Glow Glow. Just visit shop beam.com stay true and use code stay true at checkout. They just released their variety pack, so now you can try all of the flavors in the Glow lineup. That's shop b a m.com staytrue and don't forget to use code STAY TRUE for your exclusive discount of up to 35% off. And I want to talk about that because I'm sitting with two men of God and I think that there's a lot of women out there that are like, how do I know if he's worth following? Or they are married and maybe he's not worth following right now in the sense of he's not demonstrating true biblical manhood. But they're trying to like, do their role in their part in like, submission and respect. And it's like, but he's not doing his role. And so what do I do if he's not doing his role? And so if he's not setting the tone as a spiritual leader, well, like, you know, my kids, I. Then I'm gonna have to set the tone as a spiritual leader, as the, as the mom and wife. And so I would love to hear, I guess, for both a like, single dating perspective, how do I know if a man is worth following and also if I'm married, but I'm in a situation where maybe he's not being necessarily worth following right now?

[C]

Yeah, so good. Is it okay if I start with the married? Because my brain is just going there. Yeah, the devil loves to take that scenario and to speak to the 1. Like to speak to the wife in that scenario and go, you deserve better. You could. You know, he should be better. He. It's. It's always. It's always about the other person's faults and what you deserve. I'm just reminded when I start to think like that, when I start to be caught up in what my wife could do better, that I'm the one that is constantly in need to do better in the relationship between me and Jesus. Like, a marriage is a covenant, not a contract, which means that my behavior is not dependent on your behavior, on my wife's behavior. I signed up to lay down my life for life for my spouse. And so just reminding yourself when you feel like, well, I've tried, man. The Bible is radical in that it teaches. We'll try again. We'll lay down your life again. I think it's important when talking about married men, like, when you're trying to think through, how do I, you know, for lack of a better term, how do I get my husband to be a man worth following? Right. Like, that's a wild concept. But I think the temptation for. For ladies is because ladies are smarter than us. Let's just be honest. Come on, now.

[D]

Like, just say it.

[C]

Like, ladies, they see the problem. You know, you ladies listen, you see the problem. You're like, here's the 10 ways that you can change. Just do these 10 things. Yes.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

What a man really needs is his wife to be his biggest encourager, to use her words, to speak life and not death, and to call us higher with her words. So instead of saying, you always do this, reminding your man of who he is in Christ Jesus, like. Like calling higher with vision of who he could be. I just think that, like, I've never been talked into changing by what I'm doing wrong. But a lot of times I've been inspired by a vision of who I could be.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And wanted to change. And so I think, like, the married women maybe, who find themselves, like, maybe just, hey, what are the things I could speak over my husband until he actually lives up to that. What are the things he is doing really well that I could champion and celebrate.

[D]

Come on.

[C]

What's celebrated gets repeated, especially for men. So celebrate the things that you see in your guy that he's already doing when it comes to trying to decide if a. If. If you're single, if he's worth following. I think there are a couple things that you should really look closely to. I think something that doesn't get talked about a lot is how does he talk about his ex girlfriends? How does he honor or dishonor? Because that, that says a lot about his heart. Like how could you be with someone for a certain amount of time really, you know, love them or like them and then just spew stuff about them? Right. That says a lot about a man's character, his holiness, I think. What does he do with. How is he, how is he leveraging his time, talent and treasure? Is he sacrificial with his time, talent and treasure or is it all about him? Because what you are looking for in a godly man above all, I believe is a servant. Do they serve? Because a great marriage is made up of two servants. That's it. So you should be asking, does he love Jesus? Of course, like that's the prerequisite. Like that's, that is the first step. But then does he leverage his life to serve others? And if we're honest, it's easy to see that. I think where we get caught up sometimes, guys and girls, is like, man, I really want him to be a servant because he's hot. Yeah, I really want her to be a servant. Giving him so much leeway, so physically attracted.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Those things go away, guys.

[D]

Yeah, man.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? Like, what'd you say?

[D]

Time and gravity.

[C]

Time and gravity always win. Always. And there was, I don't know if you guys were in the 9:30, if you were in the 9:30 service.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I preached this sermon this past Sunday where I was talking about how that, you know, physical appearance, money, all these things don't last. So if you marry that then you're going to look up one day and you're going to be like, oh man, I, I fell out of love. Well, you just built your relationship on, on the wrong thing, on fleeting things. And when I said time and gravity always win, there was like a 60 year old woman who was like, amen.

[A]

She just yelled so good.

[C]

She just yelled so true.

[A]

Time and gravity. It's so true. And even if like we're still in a stage where, you know, we're still young, we're not 60. Like, I mean time and gravity is happening but like, you know, we're still, But I would say even in moments of just like conflict and stress and pressure and hardship and suffering, you don't care about those things. You don't, you're not thinking Thinking about those things. And so it's like the things that actually matter is what you're saying, like, are you pushing me to Jesus? And are you here to serve in love?

[C]

Right.

[A]

And both for both. And. And I just would speak to the ladies on behalf of. Of what you're saying too, is what you're saying about words. It's so important. I think so often, whether we're single or dating, we can constantly use our tongues just to, like, tear men down. There are no good men left. Men are the worst. Like, where the. The reason I'm single is because of all these horrible men out there. Like, men need to grow up. Men are just. They're boys today. There's no good. And I just think we use our tongue as females so often to just tear down to belittle to. And. And scripture's so clear that life and death is in the power of the tongue. And so what are you using your tongue for? Are you building up life and speaking life, or are you tearing down and bringing death? And so there is no neutral ground with our tongue and just being very wise in relationships of. And how we're speaking to, you know, our spouse or whoever we're around. But also, even if you're single, you know, just not using your. Your tongue to do that. Because I mean, scripture, it's so crazy. When I read through the book of Proverbs when I was married, it. It hit different. And it was like, oh, it is better to live on the corner of a roof than with a nagging wife. And I'm like, or the constant dripping of a roof. There's like all these different scriptures just like. And you're just like, the word says it, man.

[C]

Yeah, great.

[A]

It's like, hey, have you read Proverbs 22?

[C]

Just that scripture.

[D]

Why is this already underlined in my Bible?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He, like, leaves a note on the counter for me and it's, love you, sweetie. Scripture.

[D]

Just keep the sink on a little.

[A]

The drip, drip cannot. But it is such a good reminder that, I mean, scripture is just so clear, especially addressing to wives. Like, hey, your tongue holds so much power.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think it's so interesting because it doesn't. I feel like, unless I'm just missing it specifically address the husband's role with words as it does the wife's role with words, which I think is so interesting. And so what you're saying is you can speak things that are not as if they were in hope that, you know, maybe they'll. They'll get there and not that you're just speaking in some, like, I don't know, fairy tale land, but you're like. You're speaking life over them. And you're like, hey, I know that you're struggling with this right now, but I'm gonna, like, just speak over who you were made to be, like, who you're meant to be, who I'm praying. And some of that is just, like, go to God in prayer first, too. Like, I think that our first year of marriage, so much of the conflict we would have and frustrations we would have with one another, we just, like, took it to prayer.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I. And. And it's funny, I started out being like, lord, change, grant, help him be the man of God you made him to be. And then immediately. And immediately it switched, and it was just like, oh, man. Like, I've got so much stuff in me that is so ungodly. And Lord, help me to be a godly wife. Help me to be a godly woman. Help me to support, support and encourage and love my husband. And that changed. I feel like our marriage so much, and I wasn't just constantly met with all these unmet expectations and disappointments. I was constantly looking for ways to serve. And I think so often we just have this, like, I have all these expectations of all these requirements, all of these demands, and we don't show up just to serve and love. And I love that you brought it back to that for Jesus.

[D]

It's really good. Prayer did change a lot. I feel like there's a. Probably a lot of people wondering, how do I spot a boy versus a man? And so how would you kind of list out some practicals on. This is probably the signs that he's still a boy. This is the signs that he's a man. And I don't think it's age. I don't think it's beard or no beard. I don't think it's like, I. I do believe it's what you're saying. It's that. It's that inner transformation. So help some people out here. Go. If this is in your evaluation process, yeah, this is probably what a boy looks like. This is probably what a man looks like.

[C]

Yeah. I think man. So many different directions. I would look at friends. I would look at who are the voices in their life that are the loudest? What are. What. What is the fruit of their life? Because chances are. I mean, you know, we're all. We all know this. When you're in the dating stage, you. You put on A presentation. Even if you're trying not to. You are. You want the other person to see the best of you. So what are the people in their life who've seen the worst of them think about them? What are they? Like, how do they speak about them? Some of the stuff like, do they. If you say you want to marry a man of God, are they already serving? Are they already serving in a church? Are they already pouring in to other people? Do they have people pouring into them? Don't date or look for potential. Right. You want to look for the proof of concept. Potential is a great thing to notice. It's a horrible thing to date.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because it's amazing if they live up to that potential. And if not, you just married potential.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is not tough. Yeah, tough. Because at that point, you don't get to just say, well, they never. They never lived up to their potential. So I'm out. It's like, no, you're in there. Like you're staying like you are. You made a covenant. So I think you're just looking for proof of fruit. Like, where is the fruit in their life? And yeah. Do they sacrifice? The sacrifice thing is so big. Going back to, like, the words, because I think words like there are several scriptures in the Bible about women, the way that they use their words. I think a guy, though. I found this scripture in the New Testament. I'm blanking on the reference. We should throw it up right here, though. I want to grab my phone so bad and look it up. But there's this scripture in the New Testament where it says that be careful, husbands, the way you speak of your wives so you don't hinder your prayers.

[A]

Oh, First Peter 3.

[C]

That's it. First Peter. When I read that the other day, I was like, oh, my goodness. Yeah.

[A]

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[C]

That is saying that our prayer life

[D]

is literally hindering, hinging upon.

[A]

Hey, I've left that note for him out, so. Just kidding. I'm like, you want your prayers to be answered? That's right.

[C]

Talk to me nicer.

[A]

I talk nice.

[D]

It's a mind blowing verse because it says, live with them in an understanding way.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And the Bible literally says, like, your job is to understand her.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

How often do men be like, women, who. Who can get them? Yeah. And the words like, well, your hair, your. Your prayers won't reach me unless you want to understand her. Crazy. How crazy is that?

[C]

Because it's God's daughter, right? Like, dude, if someone, if someone was speaking to Mila or Hosanna or maybe like that, like, I wouldn't care about what they're asking me. I'd be like, hey, man, talk to my daughter.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Nicer.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Like, treat her with respect.

[D]

Right? Man, come on. It fires me up.

[A]

That. That is so good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I'd love to just, like, have a moment to just encourage, especially you single and dating ladies out there, refuse to settle. Do not settle for less than God's best. Even if you do see potential on his life, if he is not ready to lead you closer to Jesus and if he's trying to lead you closer to sin, he ain't the man for you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love that you said proof. I, I'm. I'm like, you guys need to write this down. What did you say? Proof of the fruit.

[C]

Proof of the fruit of the fruit.

[A]

Proof of the fruit. I'm like, you guys need to start a journalist of proof of the fruit. Like, what fruit do you see? Because, you know, it talks about it in scripture, I think so often when we look at Galatians 5 and we read, you know, the fruit of the spirit, and we see the, the list of the. What is it, eight or nine things? There's also the acts of the flesh, and sometimes not only the people that we're dating, but even ourselves, like, we should really evaluate, like, am I producing fruit from the spirit or do I look more like the world? Do I have more of, like, the fruit of the flesh or the acts of the. The flesh? And I love that you're saying, like, look at the fruit. You know, it talks about in Matthew, you will know a tree by its fruit. And so look at the fruit on his life. And if he is constantly trying to push you into sin, that is not the man for you.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You need a man that is after God's heart or else he does not deserve your heart. Yeah, And I just want to be so, so clear. I say all the time, like, it is not worth it, do not settle in any way. I love that you talk to the physical attraction piece because it's so often why we compromise in other areas because we're just so physically attracted to that person. But I promise you, like we alluded to, and I know we were kind of joking about it, but seriously, like, times are tough, you are the person you marry. You are going to go through really, really painful seasons, suffering seasons, hard seasons, lonely. I mean, just so many different seasons of life. And you want, I mean, just specifically speaking to the women, like, you want a man who is madly in love with Jesus because when he loves Jesus most, only then can he love you best. And so finding a man that is so submitted to scripture, so in love with Jesus is what's going to give him the ability. Because as we're talking about, and I, and I'd love to even go here too, is we're all on a journey. Like, men are on a journey with leadership. Like, maybe they even weren't raised in a home where they had a strong, like, father figure in their life to show them what it looks like to be, you know, a man of God. And maybe you're, you're married to a man right now, but they, and they are learning and growing in this area and they don't quite know what it looks like to be that. But when you find a man who is submitted to Jesus and submitted to the scriptures, like, he's going to continue to grow in weak areas, quote, unquote. We all have weak areas. But when you're submitted to the scriptures and you have, like, you're saying that accountability, you're plugged into your local church, that's going to help so much. And so I'd love for you to even just like, speak into what are some, maybe to men who are married right now, some ways that they can step it up in that area, or what does it look like to be like to set the tone in your home? And then I'd also love for you to speak to the women of how can we come alongside men and encourage Godly manhood?

[C]

Yeah, man, the, the, where I go is I think about my dad. Like, my dad is the godliest man that I know. And, like, I get emotional thinking about the lessons I learned from just being in the house with him. And, like, the effect that that had on my mom, the effect that it had on my little sister. The. The greatest thing that my dad ever did for me, and he did a bunch of amazing things for me, was that he would refuse to not meet with Jesus in the morning at our kitchen table. So he would get up early, and it did not matter what day of the week it was. It did not matter what was going on. He was at that kitchen table with his Bible open. And as I grew up and I went through my own difficult things, I would remember, man, my dad is there. Like, my dad, he made it a point no matter the season to meet with God. God was his rock. Maybe I should do the same thing. So I think if you're a guy listening to this and you're like, I. I need to do better, man. Nobody's. Nobody's saying that you got to become a theologian and spend two hours a day in the Word. But I think what your wife would really be encouraged by and what you would benefit from is just being consistent. Meeting with God. Hey, what's. What's the time I can just meet with God on a daily basis? I think that people are impressed by what you say, but they trust your consistency. And I think that your home, like that, like, if I could leave anything to my kids, I just hope that when they get older, they will go, man, dad was just consistently trying to be in the presence of God. Like, he was not perfect, clearly, but, man, he tried to fight for that consistency so good. So, yeah, like, how can. How can you develop the habit? I think for. For the ladies, it's like, if you see your man trying full throttle. Yeah, full throttle.

[A]

Affirm.

[C]

Like, oh, hey, I'll keep the kids out of here, you know, while you're reading the Bible. Or I'm gonna get him. I'm gonna get him a Bible. I know the budget's tight right now, but I'm gonna get him a special Bible because those things just matter so much. And, yeah, I actually have one more thing I would love to say with where we just were. I just thought of this song of songs. Chapter five says, you are my lover, you are my friend. And I think that those are the things you're looking for when we're talking about looking for, like, proof of the fruit. Could they be my lover and my friend? Right. Like, even if you are going back to, like, the physical Stuff. Even if. Even if the sex life is just incredible. Okay.

[A]

In marriage.

[C]

In. In marriage. Yeah. Like. Like you're thinking about. Man, they're so fine. You know, all these things. Like, I think guys think about the sex more than the girls. Although girls do, too. It's just like, man, it's gonna be amazing. They're so hot. You.

[A]

You.

[C]

Maybe. Maybe, you know, an hour maybe. Okay. Is this weird to talk about? Maybe now you got 23 hours the rest of the day to not be a lover, but to be a friend. Could they be a godly friend to you? Yeah. Do you have. Do you have, like, godly fun? Like, can you do that? Anyways, I just think that that's important. That's good to think about.

[D]

It's really important, man. That's really important. I would love. Bro, I. You in your sermon on Sunday. It was really helpful. There's probably a lot of girls that are.

[C]

Are.

[D]

Are really excited about a godly man.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And they just are kind of looking around.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And I do believe there's a resurgence in this high school ministry I'm leading. It's the men that are leading now. It's really cool. It's a wave that's coming, but still, the statistics are crazy.

[C]

Sure.

[D]

How much? And let's get practical. Like, when you want to date, I think you hit. Hit on, like, how much can a girl initiate?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

How much? Like, let's start dating a little bit. And I think you listed some practicals on Sunday. Just start flowing on that as far as, like, dating right now.

[C]

Yeah. I. I would tell my daughter if she came to me like, dad, oh, my goodness, I like this guy. He's godly. He is not getting the signs right. You're giving him all the signs. You. You're trying to drop your hand. You're trying to let him know, like, I'm interested, and he's just missing it. We're dumb. We're gonna miss it. You know what I'm saying? Like, on.

[D]

And I'm just locked in.

[C]

I would tell my daughter, it's okay for you to initiate initially, but you need to put yourself in a position where he has to pursue you consistently. So I think it's totally okay for the girl to let him know, hey, I'm. I'm interested. But then it is on him. And the reason why is you do not want to be in a relationship with a guy where you are doing all the leading because you're practicing a way that is contradictory to the way that the Bible has laid out for marriage.

[D]

That's huge.

[C]

Huge.

[D]

Not just in the start of the relationship. I think if you're in a relationship right now and you're the one saying, hey, you should get in your Bible more.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Hey, you should. We should do this together. What about counseling? If you're the one always leading that, I think that's a big sign of you're training in a way that's setting the tone. Not biblical.

[A]

Yeah, that's totally.

[C]

So I think, like, you. You want to gently let him know, and then you back up. And if he doesn't pursue, hey, do you want to trade what you want most for what you want right now? Because ultimately, that's the decision that you've got to answer. And a lot of people say, yeah, I will trade what I want most for what I want right now. And they hop in that relationship, and it leads to heartbreak down the road. I'm a super practical person. My wife's like, you need to be more empathetic. I'm like, it's black and white. Like, we gotta just take a step back. Like, yeah, you like him. But, man, 20 years down the road, you're gonna be. You're gonna want to be with someone. I would rather be alone and single than alone and married.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's just. That's just the truth. And so I think, like, for guys, the. The best way in a dating relationship that you can lead them is, like, prioritize your relationship with God first, but then just be super clear with your intentions. Like, use the word date. Can I take you on a date? I would love to take you on a date. Like, say it as many times as you can so she knows. I see these guys are like, you want to hang out?

[A]

I'm like, what does that mean, you want to hang?

[C]

What does that mean? Like Snapchatting, you know, chill.

[A]

It's like, no, dude, wide question mark.

[C]

She doesn't want to chill with you. She wants to be led.

[A]

She wants to be pursued. A pursuer.

[D]

How did you tell me how you asked out Maddie? Because I think you gave that example. Yeah, There was, like, three parts to it. That was so practical.

[C]

Okay, so series. I asked her. So we were in different states. So we were four hours away. And so we had never met, but someone played matchmaker. We were FaceTiming a couple weeks in a row, just trying to. I was clearly into her. She was, I think, into me. And so we were on FaceTime. I just said, hey, I would really love to take you on a date this Friday. I know that you're probably really busy, so if you can't, that's totally okay. I tried to give her a way out. Like, I don't want to trap her, right? You don't want to be like, hey, I know you got no plans Friday.

[A]

I'm taking you out.

[C]

Like, that's weird. Like. Like, give her a way out. So she said yes, by the grace of God. And we went on that first day. It was amazing. The second date, it was the next Friday. I would drive four hours on Friday, take her on a date, and then drive four hours back. Love, man.

[A]

Commitment, pursuit, dedication.

[D]

She's been mowing gas, money.

[C]

We went to this. Went to this Mexican restaurant, and we're sitting there, and, like, the queso hadn't even come. Like, we were just. I just had it on my heart. I wanted her to know, so I just said, hey, I was in a long relationship a couple years ago. Didn't end well. I don't want to be in another relationship that goes that long that doesn't end in marriage. So I just want you to know that I'm asking you on dates because I am trying to figure out if you are my future wife, if you are someone that I can love, serve, and run next to forever. And so if at any point it's clear to you that I'm not your future husband, break my heart and break my heart fast.

[D]

I said that on our second date, so good, man.

[C]

And as soon as I said it, I was kind of like, oh, man, did I just freak her out? And I think I did a little at first, yeah. And then, like, a couple days later, it. The reality of that kind of set settled with her, and she actually had a conversation with her mom and told her mom we'd only been on two dates. Distance. She told her mom, I've never been led like this before.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I'm not saying that to. To toot my own horn. I did it the wrong way multiple times before I did it the right way. I'm saying that the godly woman that guys are looking for wants that, and the godly man that girls are looking for does that.

[A]

Well, can we get into more of what it looks like to lead while dating? Because I think that's a big question that a lot of people have is like, how do I let my boyfriend lead me? What are the boundaries there? What should that look like? Because obviously, you know, letting the man lead is going to look different in marriage than it does in dating, because there is no head of the Home when you're not married. And so. But. But, you know, you practice, like, you play, and so you do want to see that there are signs of it. You do want to see that there is fruit and that there are things that are headed in that direction. But what would you say? How do you. How does a man lead in a dating relationship? And are there boundaries?

[C]

That's a great question. Yeah. He's not the head of the relationship. He's not the head of the boyfriend and girlfriend. You do want him to lead, but you want him to lead in boundaries of sin. That. That's like the biggest thing to me. Like, the physical boundaries, the sexual stuff. You want the man to lead in that. Hey, these. This is what we're not going to do, babe. This is. This is. This is when we're not going to hang out. These are going to be our. Our boundaries. Like, if you see that as a woman of God, a man of God is not going to ask you to be a woman of compromise. Wow. And so if you see a guy doing that, that's how you know, this guy can lead me forever. Like, that's because. Let's just be honest, like, guys, that's the biggest temptation for us in the dating relationship. It's like, man, I'm into you physically. Like, I. Like, I'm craving that. Like, I'm. I'm a grown man now. I'm wrestling with all these things. And so if he can say no to that, Right. Because he's caring more about you spiritually, that is huge. I think that's the area particularly. It's like, how is he guarding our relationship for holiness more than any other thing? I see a lot of. I got some pushback this past week from people at the church because I talked about how when you're dating, you shouldn't be praying together. We are. We are totally with that on that page.

[A]

We are totally with.

[C]

That's apparently a hot take.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Big hot take.

[D]

Well, it's. It's just our experience is the moment we started to try to pray together.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Never been more sexually, physically tempted.

[C]

Totally.

[D]

Because the Lord made it that way. When you go spiritual with someone, you got to go physical. You want to go physical.

[C]

Totally.

[D]

And I. Dude, we are so on that.

[A]

Spiritual intimacy is the greatest form of intimacy. And so I believe that when you are deeply spiritual and intimate with the person that you're attracted to and want to do life with and you're dating, then it naturally you want to be physically intimate with them. But I love that you're speaking to. What does it look like to lead as a boyfriend in a godly relationship? And I. I think that the two things that I feel like you really highlighted is lead with clarity and lead with purity. And so set the tone of, like, this is where we're headed. I love that you did that with Maddie. This is where we're headed. Hey, I'm not dating to date. I'm not doing this for a good time and for some meals with a cute girl. I'm doing this because in game, like, I want to be with you forever. And. Well, you didn't say that, but, like, you know, like, I. I want. Of course. How could you not, Maddie? No, but your. Your intention, I guess, is one of. I'm looking for someone to do this with forever. And so if you're not it, then, like you said, like, I want to in your praying, like, Lord, make it clear quick to the both of us, because I don't want to waste her time. I don't want to waste my time. And I want to honor you first and foremost, Lord, but also, you know, the other person in this equation. And so lead with clarity, men, and also lead with purity. And so setting. Setting the. The boundaries, making it. Making it clear and saying these are the boundaries. And then holding to that, I think is so good because we're with you. Of, like, I. I just don't. And again, everybody is different, but we are so behind the, like, not doing devotionals together and praying together when you're dating. I just, I. I think that that can be saved for marriage if you, you know, like, I think praying together in marriage is one of the most powerful, beautiful things that we have. And I'm so glad that we put that bound because it would have been so hard for me if we had done that in dating and then broke up, because now there's all these soul ties. And I think so often we think soul ties.

[D]

My Bible has your note in it, and. And that stuff just gets dangerous. And I want to know that I'm not your source of. Of spiritual growth. Like, you got women and you got a mentor, and I've got men, and I think we can come and sit at dinner and go, hey, what are you learning?

[B]

What are you reading?

[D]

That's great. But if I'm your source or. Or she's my source. And also, I think praying over. We prayed over your sister, your sisters, and I think there's. There's, like, moments of prayer together and dating, but when you start to share that prayer Life together. That's the difference that I think is that boundary.

[A]

So true. So true.

[D]

And then I also want to say this, like a man with humility is a man you're looking for huge. And I remember, you know, we weren't perfect in our dating life. Like, we would have moments where we started making out, and I would, you know, like, we get tempted, but here's the question. Like, is he broken and contrite after it?

[C]

Right.

[D]

Or is he the next time still pushing you that way? And it's like, you're not looking for perfection. I do think you're looking for a Psalm 51. He's broken and contrite.

[A]

Conviction.

[D]

And that's humility, man.

[A]

A man led by conviction.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I would say the. The way that a man's going to be able to lead you, well, you. You will know if a man's going to be able to lead you well. Well, before you. You get married. And even if you're not practicing those things and, like, having your Bible open, leading Divo's like, can he lead me? Well, let me do a diva with him. You don't need that.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

All you need to know is, is he led by the Holy Spirit? If he's led by the Holy Spirit, then he can lead you. Well, the reason that Grant is the best leader and the reason I'm able to submit to him and trust his leadership is because he's led by the Spirit of God. He submitted to the Holy Spirit, therefore I'm submitted to him. And that is the most beautiful thing of. I mean, we all need the Holy Spirit. Like, none of us have what it takes on our own, but God's design is perfect and without flaw, and he designed the men to be leaders of the home in marriage. And you can tell in dating if you know that's going to be the case. By the way he submitted to the Scriptures. By the way he submitted to the Spirit. And so I could see Grant is submitted to the Spirit. And that was huge for me. And in our dating evaluation, and I would even just add to that, too, of what we were just saying is, like, in dating, you're also not meant to be each other's, like, crutch. Independence. And I think that can get so hard and tricky because we even went through a really hard season. I mean, honestly, like, a month before engagement, and we knew we wanted to marry each other, but, you know, you got hit with some bad anxiety, and there was just a lot going on in our. I think we had gone public on Instagram. And there was just a lot happening,

[C]

a lot of hate out there.

[A]

Haters gonna hate. And. And we were just going through a lot. But I just remember having this moment of, like, I can't be that person for you. You can't be that person for me. I'm going to go to my mentor. You're going to go to your mentor, and we're going to bring them into this, bring our friends into this. And that was really, really huge. I think so often we have that, like, okay, if we're going to get married, like, if. If we see, like, in game, in this, okay, then I need to, like, be your everything right now. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Like, yeah, yeah.

[D]

And that's. And if someone feels abandoned by that comment, hey, you need to go to your men or you need to go to your women. That's probably another sign of, like, hey, there's been some unhealthy attachment here that. Yes. So, man, no, I would love to. For you to. As we kind of segue, probably to transition to the end of this, get us into what the Lord has shown you in marriage on, like, after three kids, you know, things. Things that used to matter when you were dating Maddie probably don't matter as much, and things that she used to be attracted to and you probably aren't that important anymore. Bring some sobriety to some people that maybe are not in that stage of life that you would just say, hey, guys, like, this is what is going to matter.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's. I think everything that I saw in Maddie when we were dating is just magnified, like you think. I think a lot of people think, like, I'll marry them and marriage will fix it, or marriage will make that even better. Well, it does it, Ma. It magnifies everything. I think when we first got married, the things that would get under my skin got under my skin way more over time. You start to see, hey, I could be right right now or I could be a husband. Which one do I do I want? And Maddie is so good at choosing to be a wife over being right. And so that makes me want to do the same thing. A question that someone gave us to put in our toolkit for marriage in premarital counseling was, ask yourself the question, does this lead us to unity? And does this thing I'm about to say lead us to more unity? Does this thing I'm about to do lead us to more unity? I think we have learned how to. How to not avoid conflict, but actually tackle it. We used to avoid it. We'd avoid it, and then we'd blow up, you know, first year of marriage was the most difficult for us. This week, I'm gonna tell the story of our biggest fight at church.

[A]

I cannot wait for this. And I wonder if it's as dramatic as ours is.

[C]

Our first year.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Hard. Did I just say it? You want. Yeah, I'll tell real quick, real quick, real quick.

[A]

We're on the edge of our seat.

[C]

We're in this big. We're in this big fight. We're three weeks into marriage, and it was all over me feeling insecure about her going to her parents instead of going to me. Oh, and I'm super upset.

[A]

That's the classic.

[C]

I'm super prideful. I'm super upset. Upset. We're. We're saying stuff we don't mean. She's getting upset at me. I'm getting upset at her. Fast forward to I am on the couch in our house. Not because she made me. Because I'm like, you don't get to sleep with this.

[A]

You don't get to sleep.

[C]

Truly. That's what I'm thinking. I'm. I'm sleeping on the couch. She's in. In her room and her room.

[A]

Her room, not ours.

[C]

She is waiting for me to come in there and make it right. And I'm like, I'm going to bed. So I go to sleep. She comes into the living room like an hour later, and she can't believe that I'm asleep and not fix.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

So she starts making all this noise. She's making all this noise in the kitchen she's made. She's packing her bag extra loud, right? Extra loud. And I'm like, what are you doing? And she goes, I'm going to Birmingham. That's where her family lives. She's like, I just need a couple days with my parents. She walks out the door. True story. She walks out the door. She gets. She starts the car up, and I. And I'm listening. She's not leaving. She's just in the car. Five minutes go by, she's still in the car. And I'm like. She is waiting for me to go out there. I'm like, I'm gonna go sleep in the bed.

[A]

The bed's open, Noah.

[C]

The bed's over. This is so bad. This is so bad.

[D]

I'm gonna lose my mind.

[C]

I go to get. I go to get in the bed, and I noticed, oh, her cell phone charger is plugged up. So I unplug her cell phone charger, walk out. She thinks, I'm coming out to fix the argument, save the day.

[E]

Don't.

[C]

And she's sitting there. It's like one o' clock in the morning. Don't go, you forgot your charger. Guys, this is how you don't argue. This is how you don't argue. So I'm going to share that story at church. It's making a point. What we have learned is that. Did she go, oh, no, she stayed. It blew up. She hits a point when she's, like, fuming. She doesn't, like, get angrier. She just, like, shuts down. Yeah, she just shuts down. So she shut down. It was honestly, like, it's a funny story now, but it's only funny because we reached a point where we were like, we cannot do this. Yeah. Like, we cannot. So it is actually, I don't want to be that guy because I'm sure there are people who are listening who, like, your marriage is not in this place. And if that's the case, I just want to, like, say, you can get to that place. Like, if Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he can raise your marriage from the dead. Like, that is easy work.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So, amen. We really don't argue very much anymore. Like, it's extremely rare. And it's not because we never do things to offend each other. It's because we drop offense quickly. Now we've realized, like, what makes us tick, how. How to recover. Like, Maddie when we're offended. I want to fix it right now. I want to go right now. Can we talk about it right now? Can we fix it? Can I apologize? Can we just move on?

[A]

That's me.

[C]

Maddie's like, I might need, like, an hour just so I don't say something that's going to make this worse. And so I used to be so upset. Don't let the sun go down on your anger. And Maddie'd be like, the sun hasn't gone down. Just give me a second. You know what I mean? And so all that to say what lasts is a relationship with Jesus, knowing I'm deeply committed to you forever. And it's character. It's. It's Maddie. I still believe genuinely with all my heart, she's the most beautiful woman in the world. But I'm most attracted to who she is as a person. And knowing and seeing for seven years that I have done so many dumb things, like throw her cell phone charger through the car and say, you forgot it. And she didn't leave like, she's committed to me. That shows that she loves me. It makes me want to love her more. Yeah.

[D]

Come on, man.

[A]

So that's so good. We have a very similar.

[C]

Super similar reacting to that story. You're like, we did the same.

[A]

Insanely similar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Insanely similar. Yeah, man. That's so good. This has been so good. And I know really helpful for a lot of people, no matter. Female, male, married, single, dating, wherever you're at with the Lord. I know that this has been a really encouraging episode. And I want to just read. This is what I endorse. This is what I said about welcome to manhood, the book. And then I have a final question for you. And then we will pray. But this is what I said. In a culture that confuses strength with dominance and manhood with passivity, the assault on men has never been louder. The enemy knows if he can take down the men, he can take down the family. Welcome to Manhood is a bold call to rise above the lies. My friend Noah doesn't coddle, he challenges. He calls men back to courage, character, and conviction. So men of today, if you're tired of sitting on the sidelines and ready to lead with strength, fight for what matters and love like a man was created to, this is your start. And I truly do believe that welcome to manhood is that. And you know, whether you have a brother or a husband or you're dating or a friend, that you're a female listening to that, and you want to listen into this and you want to give. This is a great book. Or if you're dude listening to this, this is your book. And I'm. We're just so blessed by.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Just the friend you are the pastor. You are, the leader. You are. And I know people have been truly blessed. When you've come on this podcast, I'd love to just end with kind of just like a final, just like, charge challenge to those who are male, listening to the men out there and to the females out there and just any. Any charge or challenge that comes to your heart of just. Yeah. Stepping into who you were created to be.

[C]

Yeah. I always go back to. I think the greatest thing that you could do is to just fall in love with Jesus. The greatest thing that you could do to be a better husband, to be a better dad, to be a better wife, to be a better mom is to just stay in love with Jesus. I think about Peter when he goes back to the shore. John 21 Jesus dies for Peter. Peter had just denied him three times goes back fishing. Jesus is on the shore cooking him breakfast. First of all, what does it say about the God that we serve that he would come track Peter down? Like, incredible, right? But then they're sitting there eating breakfast, and Jesus asked him the same question three times. Do you love me? And every single time, Peter's like, of course I love you. Of course I love you. And Jesus, feed my sheep. Feed my sheep. Feed my sheep. I used to think that that question that Jesus asked, that it was all about, like, restoration. And it is. But I really do think that the reason Jesus asked him, do you love me? Is because if you're in love with Jesus, the rest of it irons itself out, truly. Like, if you love me, you'll keep my commands. I used to read that the proof that I love Jesus is that I'm keeping his commands. No, no, no. It's exactly how Jesus said it. If you love me, then you'll keep the commands.

[A]

Amen.

[C]

If you love me, you'll be the man God's called you to be. If you love me, you'll be the one when God's love you. So just take the pressure off and ask the simple question, how could I fall more in love with Jesus today and then ask it again tomorrow? Yeah.

[D]

It's so good.

[A]

That's so good.

[D]

Wow, Noah, we. We are behind you, man. Behind you. Way church in Nashville. If you're ever in in Nashville Way church, it's a church to be at. Welcome to Manhood is the book that I'm taking a group of guys through. And it's been super beneficial, bro. So, so thankful for you and your wife, Maddie, and close us out on your podcast. And guys, I've heard this. I've heard this so many times, so I'm gonna say it like I'm busy. Drake, as always.

[C]

Stay you Stay true.

[D]

We love you. Wow.

[A]

We love you. Stay true. Podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.