Breaking Free from Body Shame with Jess Connolly

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Episode: Breaking Free from Body Shame with Jess Connolly
Release Date: July 14, 2025

In this impactful episode of "Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt," host Madison Prewett Troutt engages in a heartfelt and transformative conversation with guest Jess Connelly. The discussion delves deep into the pervasive issue of body shame, exploring its roots, manifestations, and avenues for liberation. This summary captures the essence of their dialogue, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps to highlight key moments.

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1. Introduction to the Conversation (02:07 - 05:19)

Madison welcomes Jess Connelly, a best-selling author, speaker, and mother of four, introducing her book "Breaking Free from Body Shame." Madison shares testimonials about the book's profound impact on individuals struggling with body image issues, particularly those battling eating disorders and seeking body positivity.

Notable Quote:

Madison Prewett Troutt [04:19]: "It's really, it's really wild how much that can affect our overall just confidence and how it also creates such a shame."

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2. Jess Connelly's Personal Journey (05:38 - 10:52)

Jess opens up about her early experiences with body image issues, tracing them back to the cultural emphasis on diet and appearance during the 1980s. She recounts her struggle growing up alongside an older sister who was a model, leading to feelings of inadequacy. Jess discusses her spiritual awakening at 15, which initially reinforced body shame within her ministry work. It wasn't until her late twenties that she began to question and break free from these ingrained beliefs, leading her to author her transformative book during the COVID-19 pandemic lockdown.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [05:56]: "I grew up a few feet away from her just, you know, feeling like this is not right, something's not right."

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3. Understanding the Root Causes of Body Shame (22:26 - 26:22)

Jess emphasizes that the root of body shame lies in the lack of understanding of the body's purpose. She articulates that bodies are made in the image of God, not as trophies or projects. Jess critiques both extreme neglect and obsessive focus on the body, advocating for a balanced and truthful perspective rooted in theology.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [25:18]: "I believe that our physical selves matter. I believe it's our physical selves too."

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4. Overcoming Body Shame: Strategies and Insights (23:30 - 32:04)

The discussion shifts to practical strategies for overcoming body shame. Jess shares her approach of acting as if she is already free, such as wearing a bathing suit despite initial discomfort, which gradually led to genuine feelings of freedom. She contrasts acting based on feelings with disciplined choices grounded in truth, highlighting the importance of living out one's truth before feeling it.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [31:44]: "For most of us, we do not feel free until we live free."

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5. The Role of Comparison and Social Media (36:06 - 40:04)

Madison and Jess explore how comparison, especially through social media, fuels body shame. They discuss the cyclical nature of seeking validation from others and the emptiness it brings. Jess advises embracing gratitude and focusing on God's unwavering love as antidotes to the detrimental effects of comparison.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [39:55]: "We are trying to steal God's glory from himself."

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6. Breaking Free from Environmental Shaming (55:56 - 62:26)

Addressing external factors, Jess talks about the challenges of overcoming body shame ingrained by family and societal interactions. She underscores the importance of setting healthy boundaries, affirming that the enemy, not other people, is the true adversary. Jess encourages compassionate conversations to shift perspectives and emphasizes the power of prayer in healing and redefining self-worth.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [58:55]: "We cannot make people the enemy because the enemy is the enemy."

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7. Conclusion and Prayer (66:32 - 71:13)

The episode concludes with a powerful prayer led by Jess, invoking God's healing and truth over listeners struggling with body shame. Madison and Jess express gratitude and encouragement, urging listeners to find supportive communities and continue walking in freedom and truth.

Notable Quote:

Jess Connelly [67:57]: "Am I believing the lies or am I believing the truth? And you have to choose it, even if you don't feel it or believe it."

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Key Takeaways

• Root of Body Shame: A lack of understanding of the body's divine purpose leads to shame and disordered behaviors.
• Personal Transformation: Acting freely and making disciplined choices based on truth can lead to genuine emotional freedom.
• Combatting Comparison: Focusing on gratitude and God's love can mitigate the negative impacts of social media and societal comparisons.
• Environmental Influence: Setting boundaries and addressing negative influences with compassion is crucial for overcoming external body shaming.
• Spiritual Practices: Prayer, scripture memorization, and speaking life over oneself are powerful tools in combating body shame.

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Final Thoughts:
This episode serves as a beacon of hope and guidance for anyone grappling with body shame. Through Jess Connelly's candid sharing and practical advice, listeners are empowered to reclaim their self-worth and embrace their identities in Christ. Madison Prewett Troutt and Jess Connelly create a safe and inspiring space for growth, healing, and the pursuit of truth.

Transcript

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

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[Jess Connelly]

We don't know the purpose of our bodies. Human approval will take us out every time. Anytime you are craving human approval, you are trying to steal glory from God.

What do you do when you're trying to break free from body shame, but it feels like you can't break free from your environment that is shaming your body.

You can receive your honor here or you can get it in heaven. I want it in heaven. I don't want it here.

What does it look like to have obsession with the way that we look and with the way that we want other people to perceive us?

A lot of us are waiting for maybe someone else to come and speak truth over ourselves. But we have autonomy and authority to speak life over our own flesh. We cannot make people the enemy. The enemy of our souls is the enemy. He's the one who started this war.

As an image bearer, I am literally created to just reflect his image to the world.

I think that for many of us, what we're trying to do is make our bodies good instead of treating them like they already are.

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, here in the Stay True studio with my friend, Jess Connelly. I say friend, we met today, but.

You already feel like you're not getting rid of me. Now I might move in here.

I mean, you guys, we've had to overcome some spiritual warfare to get here. Just Today. And that means that this episode is going to be so good. We feel the Lord present here in this moment. And I'm so excited about today's conversation. Jess. I actually heard about Jess through her book, Breaking Free from Body Shame. Y', all, this book is so good. And I've had so many people tell me how helpful this has been. I've had girls in my life who have struggled with eating disorders that I've. This has, like, truly been a huge game changer for them. Girls who struggle with just body image and body positivity, the whole thing. This has just been such a helpful book. So I'm so excited. That's actually what we're going to be talking about today. But Jess has written so many other books and is also a mama to four incredible kiddos and married. And her and her husband have a church in South Carolina called Bright City Church.

Yes.

And we just found out. I found out today that we have a book coming out at the same time. I know.

Excited.

Look at God.

I'm so proud of you.

And this one is what Comes Next.

This is what comes next. What Comes Next is the name of the book. Yeah.

I'm excited. September 23rd, you can get both of our books.

I mean, we may need to do some kind of fun combo both. And we'll come to your house. Your house.

We'll have coffee, we'll hang out. We'll talk about heartbreak and truth and lies and freedom and all the things.

Let's do it.

That sounds so fun. We are just so excited about this conversation because I really do think this is something that keeps so many. Not just even.

Women.

I was going to say women. Not even. Just women.

Yeah. People. I know.

I know a lot of guys that struggle with. That wouldn't admit that they struggle with body image or body shame, but they do. And I'm really excited about this conversation. And what's crazy is I. I think I would have told you that that was not something I ever really struggled with. Now looking back, I'm like, there's definitely been moments in my life where I have. But then I hit postpartum.

Yeah.

I hit postpartum. And when I tell you I've. I've shed many tears, that my body does not look the way it once did. My hair is falling. My face is breaking out. All the things.

Yeah.

And it's crazy how it's like, oh, this beautiful gift of bringing life into the world. That's such an incredible miracle.

Yeah.

You know, the. The things that come after of Just like your body looking different because, you know, I was like, out to here and now my body's like trying to now figure out its new. Yeah, it's new little situation. And I have had so many thoughts of just like, man, like, I hate the way that I look and I wish, like, I can't fit into any of my clothes. And that's so frustrating and humilia and, you know, even being embarrassed to like, walk around, you know, freely with my husband because of my body looking different now. And it's. It's really. It's really wild how much that can affect our overall just confidence and how it also creates such a shame.

Yeah.

And it bleeds into so many other things. And so I am just so excited to talk about this. And so I'd love to just start off by asking you, like, how did you, you know, come to this place where you decided you wanted to write on body shame and what has that journey been like for you?

Thank you for asking. Well, so I was born in the.

80S, so you literally look 20. And I'm not just saying that because. Very kind. I'm just being nice. Like, you actually look well.

I told you, my husband tried to dress me young today. He said, listen, you're gonna go hang out with Maddie. You need to look fresh.

So fresh.

He said, put. Leave the blazer at home, you know, so I'm grateful. Anyways, I. I was born in the 80s, so I was bor. Into, like, diet culture was culture. Diet culture was culture. It was so normalized to. All you heard about was your body and. And what was wrong with it and how to fix it, etc. And so for me, my story with body image is genuinely my very first memory as far back as I can go, kind of comparing, you know, family pictures and family historians, like, this is this. These are the years we did this. The earliest, like, sentient moment I have is a memory of me being in the back seat of my mom's car laying down, because it was the 80s and there were not car seats, you know, for sure. And I remember laying down in the back seat of my car and running a hand down my body and thinking, I wish I could just slice this much of it off. Like, if I. If I could get rid of these parts of it, then I would look like my friends. I would look like my. My family members who were my age. I just. My earliest memory in my body was like, this isn't right. Something's not right. And then again, because of where we were at culturally and, you know, in so many ways where we still are. But it was so normalized to talk about our bodies in just an incredibly broken way. I don't know if you've seen, like, some of the devastating and also, like, shockingly funny reels or things where they'll share, like diet ads that were on TV or like different language from TV shows in the, in the 80s and 90s, but it was just so normalized to talk specifically about women's bodies and what made them good, what made them desirable, what made them okay. And so that, that was all I knew growing up. Like, my body isn't. Isn't okay. Something about it is not right. I grow. I grew up with an older sister who's three years older than me, who is genuinely, like, God's gift to all of us. She's just an incredible woman. I call her Snow White plus Jesus. She's the nicest woman you've ever met. Literally. She's got seven kids and she's the sweetest, nicest mom you've ever met. She's an incredible businesswoman. Everything she does is beautiful. But she also happened. Happened to be a model. When I was growing up, she was a literal model. And so I grew up a few feet away from her just, you know, feeling like this is not right, something's not right. And then unless, unfortunately for me, and, well, beautifully for me, When I was 15, I met Jesus in a radical way. I had. I had a death to life conversion experience. Like, one day I was walking in darkness, and the next day I was walking in light. And I knew immediately that I wanted to be in ministry for the rest of my life. And I wanted to be. I wanted to teach the Bible. I knew immediately it wasn't about, like, teaching or being famous or people knowing me, but I just. I sat on my bed the day after I got saved holding my Bible, and thought, I want to tell everybody about this. I can't believe this is real. I want to tell everybody about this. And so I knew I would be in some kind of ministry. But the unfortunate part is that for me in that season, a lot of the broken things that I had been told in culture about my body were reinforced inside the church and sometimes even doubled down on. And so then as I began to step into ministry and step into the mission that God had for me in my life in. In my early 20s, and a lot of those messages were continually underlined. And so I first began to dabble with disordered eating and behaviors in college, and I was either inspired or taught overtly, sometimes how to do that by other Christian women. Here is what you can do to make your body more acceptable. And that will be good, because then you'll be seen as disciplined and you'll be seen as righteous, and also you'll be desirable for all these other things. And so for me, my body image issues were deeply cemented within Christian community. And a lot of the lies I believed about my body were just kind of nailed down by this deep desire I had to be also right before the Lord and to do things for the Lord. And it wasn't for me until really my late twenties, when I found myself pretty deeply involved in. In ministry, in local church ministry. And I was beginning to use my gifts, writing and teaching more often, that I realized I have all these other areas in my life where I believe God and where theology dictates how I live. And I want to live free in this area. And God's brought me freedom in this area. And I believe truth about this area, but this one area about my body, everything I believe, everything I say, all the way that I talk, all the language that I use, and all the language that I hear other people use, it all is aligned with the world and not the kingdom.

Wow.

And so I just thought, like, I've got to know what God really says about my body. I've real. I've got to know what he really thinks about my body. And that led me on an exploration of body freedom. And so that was just kind of private journey with me and my mentors and people discipling me and my family. And it was beautiful. And I. And I lived a couple of years just in wild freedom, in really living in this truth that my body was good. And then the pandemic hit, 20, 20 hit. And I had always talked to my editor at the time about writing a body image book. We would say, like, one day we're going to write that body image book. One day we'll write it. You know, I'd already written a couple of books, and I just thought, like, that's a project for another day. And she called me the first week of the pandemic, the first week of lockdown, when everybody was in their houses. She was like, I have a question for you. And I was like, I'm all ears. And she said, how do you think women feel about their bodies right now? They've been. They've been in their houses for about a week. They can't get to the gym. They're turning towards their fridges. You know, everything is different how do you think women are feeling about their bodies right now? And I said, not good. And she said, how do you think they're going to feel a year from now? And I said, not good. And she said, I just. I'm not telling you to write a book right now. I'm not telling. I didn't have a book due. I didn't have a book even lined up to write. She said, I'm not. I'm not telling you anything, but I have an idea for you. She said, I would love for you to go find every Christian book you can find on body image. And I want you to go to Amazon, buy everyone you can buy, and see what you find. And there were about two. And then I found every. Not every, but I found a lot of secular books about body image. And I just started reading them, and I only. It only took me a couple of days of reading to know. I. I think I have to write this book. And then it, you know, this is an author. This never happens for me. But that book flew out. I wrote it in about 40 days because I just thought, someone has got to tell the women of God that their bodies are good.

Wow. And I love that you already spoke to. What I feel is just the reality of what so many of us face is that we are allowing the world to dictate how we view ourselves. We're allowing culture and social media to tell what is good and right and beautiful and good enough. And we're allowing society's, you know, language and pressures and thoughts about it dictate how we feel about our own selves and about our own bodies. And so I. I would love for you to speak to that, because I just. I think that for so many people, they don't even recognize that that is a lie that they're believing or a standard that they're trying to live up to. A lot of women who. Or men who do love God, hate themselves in the mirror, but they don't recognize that it's because they're attaching the world's version of beauty and the world's standard for, you know, being good enough. And so how do you. How do you break free from society's, you know, culture's standard of beauty and body image and really know who you are in Christ and learn to love that. Okay, guys, I'm taking a short break from this podcast to tell you about some exciting news. My new book, Dare to be True. Stay true. Dare to be True. It just makes sense. When God laid this podcast on my heart, I Actually had already started working on my next book, Dare to Be True. And the whole point of this podcast and the whole point of this book is we were all designed and made for truth, and everyone in this world is searching for it. Yet so many of us are searching for the right things in all of the wrong places. And this book is all about tackling the lies that often entangle us and bind us and finding the truth that sets us free. And so in this book, we're going to be tackling all the things from sin and shame and the lies around eternity and the lies around your identity and the lies around your purpose and how to find the truth and live free. Because the reality is, it says in Proverbs 14:12 that there is a way that appears to be right, but in the end, it leads to death. There is a way that the world preaches that we should go, that we should follow, that we should conform to, that we should look like, and in the end, it leads to death. Yet what God's word says is Jesus says in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth, and the life. So he is saying, the truth you are looking for can only be found in. In me. I am the truth. And I'm not only the truth, I'm the truth that leads to life and life abundantly. And then it says in John 8:32, when you know the truth, it's the truth that will set you free. And so if you have ever felt bound by lies, if you have ever questioned your worth, your confidence, your purpose, if you've ever wondered how you can break free from feeling weighed down, exhausted, overwhelmed, or even insecure about who you truly are and what your purpose is on this earth. This book is for you. I have often said, I just want to be free. I have looked at my husband many of times and said, I just want to be free. I'm tired of feeling weighed down. I'm tired of feeling not enough. I'm tired of being on this endless cycle of striving and performing and never feeling like I can reach what I need to reach and be who I need to be. And when I go back to the truth, when I go back to who God is and who God says I am, that is when I experience true freedom. And so this book is for you and I am so excited. True Crew for you to go and get your copy of Dare to Be True. You can pre order it now. I will be including the link in this episode and so you can go and pre order it. It will be coming out this fall. I'm so, so excited and I can't wait. We're going to be doing some really fun series all about some of the content in this book. But you're going to want to get your hands on it because there's some really, really fun special pieces in this book that you can't get in this podcast. So you guys can go and pre order Dare to be True now if you want to break free from what is breaking you.

Yeah. Well, I love this about you. I. I love that you have this beautiful call in your life to speak truth to lies. And I'm so thankful for how you lead so many men and women and doing it. And I love that you bring up men in this because I will tell you, statistics say that 97 of women struggle with body image issues. Do you know what the statistic is for men?

No, what is it?

95. 95.

That's crazy. It's like, it's not shocking because of how much they love the gym, right? But, like, it is because they wouldn't. I feel like most men are not as. It's not as easy for them to come forward and be like, hey, I struggle with body shame, body image.

And I think this is an issue where we have at least, at least within Christian community, we're hearing more truth. We're. We're learning how to speak truth to these lies. But nobody's talking to them about it. Nobody's saying to them, like, by the way, you don't need to talk about your body like that. Like, by the way, your. But your body isn't a trophy either. Like, no one's talking to them about it. And I hope someone will do that. I actually don't feel called to do that. I feel called to talk to the women. But your husband, I know literally all.

The time, I'm like, babe, do you.

Want to write that book? But it is a shockingly high statistic for men as well. But all that being said here, here's the, the first thing I would say. So for anyone who's like, oh, you know, maybe me too. Like, maybe I believe God's voice about all these other things. But, like, yes, a hundred percent. I totally just like and subscribe to society's view on, like, the purpose of my body, what makes it good, what it should look like, the first thing I would say to anyone listening is, shame off you. Like, you didn't start this fight. You were born into it. You didn't wake up or you didn't become a believer. And Think like this is an area I want to have really broken thinking we, we were born into this.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, again, diet culture is culture. It is culture. It is a multi billion dollar industry continually making money and being fed off of us hating our body. Bodies. It's everywhere. And unfortunately it, it has even pervaded the language that Christians use and talk about their body. And I'll have to say, like, even, even as a Bible teacher and even as a woman who finds myself on stages, like, one thing I even noticed is once I started to live in freedom and walk in freedom, I started to notice how many Christian Bible teachers I heard defame their body on stage, like making little comments about their thighs or their wrinkles or their this or they're that. And I thought like, first of all, most of you are the most beautiful women I've ever seen. And so I wonder what everyone else sitting, looking at you is now perceiving about themselves. And to even those women and, and me, who has been guilty of that before, I would say shame off you, shame off us, because again, we didn't start this fight, but we can be a part of ending it. So where do we start? Is I believe we start with renaming. And, and to do that we have to pay attention to all of the names that we've given our bodies to, all of the purposes that we've, that we've given our bodies to, all of the lies that we've begin to, we've begun to believe or speak or say about our bodies. And maybe even just pausing and saying, like, where did this come from? Who told us this? Yeah, like, like God says to Adam and Eve in the garden, like, who told you? Who told you are naked? Who told us, us that our bodies were meant to be trophies? Who told us that we had to treat them like projects? Who told us that we had to bounce back after a bit? Who told us, does any of this sound like our Father, or does it sound like the Father of lies? So I think we have to first ask, like, when I, anything I say about my body, anything I believe about my body, who told me that? Where did that come from? And then I think we have to start to rename our bodies. And some of that I think will lead us into a deeper theology of the body. What's the purpose of the body? What does God say about the body? What's going to happen to the body when we die? What does Jesus's body mean for us and our faith? All of these things are, are deeply foundational truths. That once I. Once we start to change our mind, we'll change the way we live and then we'll change how we feel.

Wow, that is so good. And, and I do. I think a lot of times we don't get to the root issue of, like, where the body shame comes from. And I love that you're even taking it all the way back to the gard. The way back to the origin story, Adam and Eve. And when sin entered the world, the first thing that followed was shame. The first thing that followed, sin came, temptation came, sin happened, shame followed. It's that perfect little situation that the enemy wanted to happen because as soon as he dangled it, making, you know, the apple look good and tasty or whatever the fruit was, then what happened was he came in as the accuser and it brought about shame and condemnation and they hid from God and body.

Shaped and they immediately covered themselves.

It's the first big.

I had somebody say to me recently, like, you know, it's hard because there's no body shame in the Bible. And I was like, it's right in Genesis.

You're like, open it chapter, chapter. What is that, two or three right at the beginning? That is crazy.

Yeah. Wow.

Because I, I've never thought about it like that. But I do think a lot of times we don't even realize what the root issue is. And if we're just trying to pick at all the fruits and we don't get to the root, then it's just going to continue happening and maybe manifest in different ways.

Yeah.

You know, I think for. For some of us, if we do struggle with some type of disorder, like maybe we, you know, go through a season where we're really, really watching what we eat, or we even starve ourselves, or we take other extreme measures, but then we could deal with that fruit. And then maybe in another season we start binge eating or we start overeating or over indulging, or in another season we start flaunting our body, wanting other people to validate it and to. And so I, I think that is why it's so important to get to root.

Yeah.

And so can you speak to what is the root of body shame and how can people listening to this get to the root to deal with the root issue?

Yeah. I think for me, my. Take my perspective at this time in my life, I really believe that the root issue is that we don't know the purpose of our bodies. We don't know truth about. About why we're in bodies. And again, like, this Kind of scale that you're talking about, this pendulum swing. I have a friend, Elisa Keaton, who. She calls it, basically, we go from obsessed to neglect. We obsess over our bodies or we neglect them. We obsess over them or we neglect them. And we do the same with like, how we dress and what we eat and where we. And where we go. We obsess or we neglect. We obsess or we neglect. And this is where, again, I would say, like, even in Christian community we have like, skewed truth a little bit. Because there will be a lot of people who would maybe say, like, the body doesn't matter. You know, it's just gonna bur burn. Like, it's all gonna. The body. The body matters.

Yeah.

Jesus, the incarnated Savior who came in a body, the fact that we're made in his image, that he comes back in a resurrected bodies, that when we experience resurrection ourselves, for those of us by grace who. By grace who walk in faith, like we're going to have resurrected bodies, the body matters. God made our body, so it matters. But when we start saying like, it doesn't matter, then we'll treat it with harm and we'll neglect it because we think it doesn't matter. And so I would say we've forgotten just like the purpose of our bodies or we maybe never have known. But my. My personal take is this. I believe we're made in the image of God. I believe that isn't just about our souls, our immaterial selves. I believe it's our physical selves too. I believe the fact that Jesus has an incarnated body matters to our faith.

Faith.

And of course it matters because his death and resurrection matters. Right? So it.

It.

It has oomph to it. But I believe we're made in his image. I believe that our. The purpose of our bodies is not to be trophies, not to get glory for ourselves, but in view of God's mercy, to submit our bodies as. As living sacrifices. I believe that in these bodies, this is where on earth we experience his power, his presence, his compassion, his goodness. So absolutely, I believe that we're going to want to steward what we've been given, but ultimately, here's where it lies for me, like the root purpose of the body. I believe that when God made our bodies, he called them good. In fact, in Genesis we see this beautiful kind of switch up where he says he may. He makes, you know, vegetation, he makes animals, he makes light, he makes dark. He calls it all good. He makes humans and he calls them very good. The word in Hebrew is muchness good. He says, they're very good. And I believe that we cannot actually undo that name that we were given. We. We can, however, forget. But I think that for many of us, what we're trying to do is make our bodies good instead of treating them like they already are.

That's so good. I love so much that you're bringing it back to, like, what's the whole point and purpose of it? And that we, each and every single one of us, and it's. It's so cool when you have a child because you're kind of brought back to, like, this simplicity of the gospel and the faith. And I just. Every day I'm like, you're made in the image of God. You're made in the image of God. And I'm speaking this over her. And there's oftentimes I'm speaking things over her that I'm like, wait, I need to be reminded of this. I need to be reminded, hey, Maddie. You're made in the image of God. When you're telling your daughter to love the way she is because God says she is very good and she's made in his image to reflect his goodness and glory to this world, then I need to believe that myself. And she's going to be even looking to me and looking to see, is Mommy confident about, you know, who. Who she is in Christ? Does Mommy not just say words of truth, but does she believe and live out words of truth? And so a question I have is, a lot of us know the truth. A lot of us hear the truth. A lot of us hear. Jess, what you're saying is, I know it's true. I know I'm made in God's image. I know God says I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. I've been told those truths before, but I don't know how to take it from my mind to then my heart, to then live it out and let it lead my life. And so how do you go from, you know, God says you are fearfully and wonderfully made. You know the truth about the purpose of your body and why you were made and what you were made for. You've heard those things, but you just don't know how to really believe it and live it out like it is. True.

True. So I'd be. I'd be curious to hear your take. But this is. This is where I land as, like, a student and a watcher of humans, not a scientist and not a sociologist, though I do have a minor in sociology, but I watch people and I try to figure out, like, okay, how do people change? How do people grow? How do we. That's what we're asking, right? Like, in any issue, we're asking, like, how. How would you actually change? If you know truth, what makes you live truth. And this is what I have found is that most of us know truth and we wait until we feel it to live it. But for most of us, we do not feel free until we live free. So for me, what this looked like is that when I realized, like, okay, I have a set of lies here that I actually don't want to live into anymore. I believe God about every other area of my life. Life. I have obeyed God in radical ways that has drastically changed the way that I live. But I'm not obeying him about this. I'm not believing him about this. So the next thing I had to do was I had to actually just start to act free. I had to start to live free. I had to put on a bathing suit, though. I felt uncomfortable in it, and. And actually just like, move about in the world. You know, I live in a beach town. And so, like, one of the. One of the. The conversations that continually came up for me was like, we have to get our bodies ready. We have to be ready for summer. We got to get our body ready for summer. And so I would constantly be in groups of. Of Christian women who would be saying that overtly or talking about it subtly. Maybe they're saying it, maybe they're not saying it. Being in workout classes where, you know, the instructor would say, like, okay, you know, it's coming, June's coming, blah, blah, blah. And one summer when I was in the midst of my own body freedom journey, I was like, like, I'm actually not going to get it ready. I'm just gonna. I'm ready. I'm ready for summer. I'm in a body. I'm ready for summer. I'm in a body, and I'm ready for summer. Or, for example, like, there are a million women in America who I say are terrified of sleeves and shorts. Like, we're terrified to show our arms. We're terrified to show our legs. I personally am a woman who has just intense varicose veins, just veins all over my leg. I've had them all my life. All the women in my family had them. So for years, I'm like, yeah, I need to wear longer skirts. I need to wear, you know, like, yoga pants. Or I need to always have Like a, a wrap when I go to the beach. And then I was like, I don't. Or I could just put shorts on because I live in a beach town. It's hot. You know, I could actually just say, like, well, this is what my legs look like. I had to actually start to live free, act free. And then what I noticed is making little moves like that, making little shifts like that. Or like, sometimes it was, for example, like, like, you know, a lot of people, I'm sorry, I'm going round and round, but a lot of people pit health and freedom against each other. And so they would come to me and say, like, hey, you know, what about those of us who really want to take care of our bodies? Like, I, I absolutely want to take care of my body. That, that was a work of freedom for me. And so actually, in my journey to break free from body shame, I ended up becoming a Bar 3 instructor. I realized I love doing bar and I love going to this one bar studio. And I realized, what would I do if I was really free? Well, I, I, I wouldn't feel shame about my body. And I would get up and do this thing that I think I'm actually good at. The crossover between preaching and leading a workout class are high like you. It's basically the exact same thing. That's amazing. All that being said, I would start to do things in my body as if I was free. And then I felt free.

Yeah.

And then I felt free. And now a lot of that stuff is just second nature. Just living free.

Yeah.

Leads to feeling free. But so many of us are waiting until we feel free to act free.

It's so true. So true. I've heard it said, choices lead, feelings follow.

Yeah.

When you make the choice, I know it's true. Therefore, I'm going to choose what is true over what I feel right now. And I'm going to trust.

Yeah.

That my feelings will catch up. My feelings will catch up. Because if I just go off of what I feel, you know, people used to ask me all the time, like, how, how do you stay so motivated? How do you say, so how do you get all these things? And I'm like, listen, I don't stay motivated. I don't. I say disciplined because there's a huge difference when one is based off of feelings and environment. And if I'm feeling it that day and the other is based off of us, a set of goals and what I know, you know, I need to feed that I need to feed my spirit, that I need to pour into others, that I'm called to do this and that in order to live a life worthy of the calling God has given me. This is. I need a life of discipline.

Yeah.

And so I love that you spoke to that, because I do. I think it's so true that for so many of us, it's. It's all based off of feeling. And even, like, when we're scrolling on social media and we see all of these things, it does. It's those comparison feelings. It's those we. We start feeling shame because we see other people, how they look on social media. We see other people and how they're, you know, posting and what they're doing and how they look in a swimsuit and how they. And. And it does. It goes back to like, well, what is true about me? God didn't give me that body. God gave me this body. So how do I see this body that God has given me as a temple that has the Holy Spirit inside? And how do I honor this body? And how do I give this body back to God in a way that's pleasing to him? And so I love that you spoke to. To the feelings aspect of it. And I would say. You said you'd be curious. My thought. I would honestly say very, very similar answer because, you know, I just immediately, like, thought to myself of, like, yeah, so what do I do in those moments, like, when. When those lies come, like, how have I been? You know? And I think for me, recently, with this postpartum journey and having those moments of just, you know, my body, it just feels unfamiliar. It doesn't feel like what I'm used to. And I did think I was going to bounce back really quickly. And I don't know if that's because of culture or because of. I don't even know where that came from.

Yeah.

But I did have, like. And I think a lot of people said that to me. I think a lot of people spoke that over me like, oh, you'll be back like that.

Which, like, which does that even, you.

Know, it's like, I think you meant that encouraging. Yeah. But now, because I'm not back like that, now I'm discouraged. Now I'm like, so what's wrong with me? And now I need to, like, it's what you're saying. I. I've had the same thoughts of swimsuit season's coming up. So, like, I need to get in the gym.

I need to.

And I'm just like, man, one, where is that coming from? And two, how do I respond in Those moments. And I think what has been for sure the most helpful for me is always like praying and turning to truth, but also just like confessing it and being like, hey, I just had this yucky thought about myself.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like I, I, like I've had to be. And I am not the best at that. Like, I've had to really work at that. So for some people listening that are like, no, that's really, like, I can't do that. I'm like, no, you don't understand. I, I thought I couldn't do it either. And then I got to the point where I was like, I'm sick and tired of not feeling free. I actually want to be free. And I don't think you can experience true freedom without confession. And so it took me going to my husband and being like, hey, I feel not cute. Like, I don't feel cute. My face is breaking out, my body doesn't look the way I want it to look. My hair is either being pulled out by my 3 month old or it's falling out because of postpartum. And you know, I spend most of my time in the house and I don't really, really see people. And I, you know, it's just like all the things and I'm just like, okay, I don't feel myself. And I, I have to confess that I have to confess to my friends and have them pray over me. And I found that to be very helpful as well. And you know, I just, I, I just think it's so interesting with social media and I want to, I want to go there too, because I think so often the reason we have body shame is because we're comparing ourselves to other people and because of what we're seeing around us, whether that is, you spoke to your story, whether it is a family member that we're seeing, a par. Sis, a sibling, or whether it's a friend or someone online.

Yeah.

Comparison can create in us a hatred of ourselves.

Yeah.

In this like, love, hate relationship that we have with ourselves, where some days, like we feel really good and some days we feel really bad when we're constantly comparing to the people around us. And so what advice do you have when it comes to breaking free from body shame and when it comes to seeing yourself the way that God sees you when there's so many opportunities for comparison to see everything else around you that might make you feel less than best?

Well, okay, if we're talking about comparison, I'll say this. I, I think that I want to talk about social media. But I will say I, I want to give this as just like an encouragement. I think a lot of times we, we believe that like comparison lives on social media. So I know you have heard this. I know you've heard people say like, oh, I had to unfollow her, or maybe you or they'll say it me to, to, you know, to me. I had to unfollow you because I was struggling with comparison. Or like I had to unfollow so and so because I like was comparing my life to her and I'm like, I get it, I get it. And sometimes removing a stimulus can help. The problem is comparison is an actual sin that needs to be confessed so you can walk in freedom from it. So like we hear about covetousness in the Ten Commandments. So I just would say to anyone struggling with comparison, you need to confess, you actually need to repent. Like you, you saying you playing nice with this sin of comparison. And I say this with so much love and so much grace, playing nice with the sin of comparison and acting like it's something hard that's happening to you rather than going to God, the triune Godhead who created the universe, who hovered over the water, creation and saying, I am coveting, I am wanting something that you gave someone else or that I perceive someone else has. And maybe even I'm starting to want that. Not for them, that I want it so much for me. Please search me and know me. Find that wicked way in me and help me put that to death. Like, that is actually how we combat comparison. And if we believe that unfollowing someone on social media is going to fix that in us, we are dead wrong. Because we are still going to go to church and sit beside someone who we're going to want to compare ourselves to. And if it's not body image, it's going to be their house or their kids or their dog or their sofa, which by the way, I love you so much. You know what I'm saying? Like, we got to confess and repent hint when we covet. So that's number one. Number two, if we're talking about social media, I think it can be helpful to remember that. I don't want to say it's all lies, but I will say it is a curated reality and keeping that filter in your own brain to say anything I am seeing is a curated reality and remembering that so that you can speak truth to anything you see over yourself. So that I would say, step one, repent of covetousness Two, remember that social media is a curated reality. Number three, what I have found to be most helpful, rather than just trying not to compare myself to other people or, or even just saying, I don't do that anymore, don't think that anymore, is when I find myself really, truly struggling with comparison, especially with a sister in Christ. What I want to do is call down heaven on her life. I want to bless her. I want to tell her I'm proud of her. I want to say like, oh my gosh, I love your sofa. Oh my gosh, I love your lashes. Wow, you're. Your family seems so healthy right now. Or oh my gosh, you know, whatever it is that I want to compare, I want to actually just call down blessing on her head and say, thank you, God, that you've given that to her. And by doing that, I am going to kick Satan in the teeth and say like, actually, you don't get to come to me with the voice of lack because I have had abundance purchased for me on the cross of Christ, so I'm going to speak abundance over other people. And then lastly, like, we really do have to bless what we have. So when it comes to our bodies, I think a lot of us are waiting for maybe someone else to come and speak truth over ourselves, but we have autonomy and authority to speak life over our own flesh in ways that nobody else has.

Yeah.

So being the loudest in our own life to say, my body is good, I will confess and repent when I speak untruth or lies about my body because I am defaming the God who made me me. And I, I will say like, this body is at rest. She's at peace. She's not a project. She was made good. She still is good. She can experience brokenness under the effects of a fallen world and still experience redemption and wholeness and healing and resurrection is coming for her.

Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Because I think that oftentimes when we think about body shame or body image and confusion and lies around that we have, if we think we don't struggle with it, we have a certain stereotype of those that we're picturing that do struggle with it. Yet I think what I've seen is even the ones that would appear to be the most beautiful, like perfect looking humans sometimes struggle with it more than anybody else that I've seen. And I want to, I want to go there for a little bit because what I see so often happen is we flaunt ourselves and we look for validation. You were kind of speaking to this we look for validation in other people and in other things because we lack true affirmation in ourselves that can only come from God. And so we're trying to be affirmed and accepted and validated from other people. And that looks like, you know, maybe we're posting and posing certain ways on social media. Maybe we're giving our bodies to other people outside of marriage to feel a high of like, being chased or wanted or desired. Maybe it looks like really, really caring about the name brand clothes that we wear and being, you know, and it, and it being commented on and people always saying, you always have the cutest outfits and, and just obsessing over these things. And you were kind of talking about earlier how we can swing from neglect to obsession. I now kind of want to swing over to obsession. And what does it look like to have obsession with the way that we look and with the way that we want other people to perceive us, us. Because I think a lot of us struggle with just perception management. We really want to manage other people's perception of us. If I can feel sexy to, to, you know, to, to guys, if I can feel, you know, like, I'm the coolest, best dressed, prettiest to girls, and if I can feel, if I can just manage these people's perception and obsess over what I look like, and then I'm going to feel good about myself. And so, yeah, let's talk about that.

Yeah, yeah, well, let. I want to, I want to like, give a response to maybe two different perspectives depending on people who are listening. So for people who are maybe, like, not sure where they're at with the Lord, or maybe they are fresh in their faith or like, like a lot of what we're saying, like, sounds good, but they're like, I don't know, I would, I would just say this really honest piece of bad news. It will never be enough. It will never be enough. I once heard this wild metaphor about how they kill wolves in Alaska. So here's how they kill wolves in Alaska. If, like a hunter wants to kill a wolf, what it will do is bury a knife, like a really sharp knife, covered in blood and frozen in the ice or in the ground so that the wolf will come and smell the blood and will start licking it. And it will want the blood so much that it will keep licking it, keep licking it until it then cuts itself and bleeds to death. That's very graphic and disturbing. That's what a lot of us are doing with human approval. If we get into any game, if we get into a relationship, if we start posting on social media, if we go into any calling, if we step into any part of our life, life wanting human approval. Human approval will take us out every time. It always turns. And, and, and this is the bad news. Like the, the tide is always turning in culture. What is beautiful, what's acceptable, what's good is always turning. Like, you know, I, I thankfully don't know anymore. Like, is it cool to have a big back? I don't know. Is it? I don't really, I don't keep up with it. Like, I think maybe now maybe it's cool to have thin eyebrows. I'm never doing it again. I was alive in the 90s. Like, I'm not going there again anyways. It's just always shifting and it's never enough. And I would just say, like, protect yourself and love and love yourself enough to say, like, I, I'm not gonna bleed to death over this. I'm not gonna start running after human approval in a way that will take me out now to maybe some more mature believers or people who have been walking with the Lord a little bit longer. I would give this little bit tougher word. God will not be mocked and he will not share his glory with another. So when you're getting ready for church and you're having a subconscious narrative about who's going to think your outfit's cute, you are trying to steal God's glory from himself. You got to stop up. Anytime we are wanting praise. This should be reserved for the Lord. We are trying to steal his glory. And I, I think we forget that. And many of us, I believe, want our lives rung out for the glory of God, but also we are just secretly running after it ourselves. And he says really clearly, like, you can be, you can receive your, your honor here or you can get it and have heaven. And I don't know about you, but I do know about you. But like, I want, I want the glory that God gives to his sons and daughters, the co heirs of Christ. I want it in heaven.

Yeah.

I don't want it here. I, I don't want this. You know, none of us want to peak in high school. Like, I don't want to peak on earth. You know, like, I don't want this.

To be the best it is for me. Yeah.

And so I would just say, like, noticing that narrative, anytime you are craving human and approval, you are trying to steal glory from God. Wow. And, and being really honest about that will help you live free from that desire.

Yeah. Because it's the fear of the Lord that keeps us from sinning. So having tell them having the fear of the Lord of like, I don't want to experience the wrath of the Lord.

God will not be.

God will not be mocked. And vengeance is his. And I don't want to be on the other side of that vengeance. You know, I want to be on the side that as an image bearer, I am literally created to just reflect that his image to the world. I am here. They, they say like about the moon, that the moon does not have light on its own. That it. The only way the moon gets light is if it's reflecting like the sun and the sun reflects on the moon and that's what gives the moon light. And in the same way we are all moons. We do not have light on our own. None of us. The only way we have light and we have anything good is if we are just reflecting the sun. If we're just reflecting him to this world. And in the same way, like a moon shines bright in a dark sky, like, that is who, that's what we're meant to be. And if so many of us are just trying to get, like you're saying, glory for ourselves, we're not doing and being what we have been called and created to do and be.

Yeah.

And there's going to continue to be like you're saying just this. It's never going to be enough. You're going to change this. You're going to get this, you know, surgery. You're gonna, you're gonna try this out. You're gonna finally get this validation or compliment. You're gonna get the. Whatever the thing was that you put on the top. If I just got that. And you're gonna realize you still don't feel enough.

Right.

Because it's what you're saying. If we, if we can't get to the core truth of it all of the only way any of us are enough is, is we're not actually enough. None of us. And so the only way we have anything good is, is if it's God. And so I love that you were speaking to that. And I think that that, that has been one of the struggles for me is like a self obsession with validation and approval. And that was something I struggled with really badly in, in high school and would find, you know, little things that I knew would get me attention or, you know, flirt certain ways or post certain ways and honestly, you know, was madly in love with Jesus and still like, would find myself like looking for Validation in. In other people. And I remember even Grant, when we first started dating, would call me out and how I dressed a little bit and was like, what. What is the heart behind that? Like, what are you trying to get out of that? And would, you know. And I got a little defensive. Sure.

I'm like, what do you mean you don't know?

You don't know me. We just started dating, you know? And honestly, I've learned anytime I'm trying to justify something, usually there's a little. A little sin there. There's a little something more to uncover. But I realized I'm like, yeah, I am. I am. I'm. I'm searching for this validation and this approval in other people. When I tell other people that they are affirmed and accepted and approved and loved by an almighty God. And yet I myself question, like, I don't always believe that.

Yeah.

And so what are even some practical steps and ways. What are some practical things you would tell those who struggle with a desire for approval and a desire for validation and how they look or in, you know, wanting that perception to be good for other people? What would you. What would you tell them?

I mean, similar to earlier, I would still say shame off you, because, like, I want people to like me too, you know? Yeah. And so I would even just say, hey, the part of you that wants to be loved and accepted, that wants other people to find you worthy, is actually be a kingdom piece of you because you were made to be love and accepted and approved of. You were made for that. That it. That isn't your flesh. That's like, that's a kingdom desire in you. But. But learning that getting it from the wrong place will. That. That will not work. That it will not serve you is the act of maturity.

Yeah.

And so I would say, like, I think this is where replacement therapy can be really, really, really helpful. Like, rather than just saying, like, okay, I' stop doing that. I'm gonna try to stop getting approval from other people. I would say, like, ordering your life, patterning your life in such a way that you are lavishly receiving the approval and love and grace of God. I just. I'm a person who thinks we cannot think too much about how much God loves us, because I think if we just keep thinking about how God loves us, we. We will find ourselves in awe of his glory, his righteousness, his compassion, his goodness, his grace. Like, we'll see who he is when we think about. About how he feels about us. And so rather than just saying, like, okay, I'm going To try to not do that today. I'm going to try to not wear the things. I'm going to try to not post the things. I'm going to try not do the things I would say, like, maybe just wake up and say, like, how can I lavishly receive God's love today? Because when you do that, everything else actually starts to taste bitter. It starts to taste like dust in your mouth. You know, I'll give you a really small example that has nothing to do with body image. You know, when people have a birthday and they're like, man, I just really want people to celebrate me. Right? Like, I want people to. I want, it's, it's natural and normal to want to be celebrated. I learned a couple years ago, maybe around the same time I started walking in some freedom around this, that I was like, okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm actually gonna stop waiting for people to celebrate me. And when it's my birthday, I'm gonna just thank God and, and go all out thanking him for what he's done for me. It's, it's one day a year where I get to be like, look at what you did. Thank you, God. And what I noticed is like, when I started like really seizing massive gratitude on my own and telling people, like, this is how I'm gonna celebrate. If you wan. That I could look at everybody else and I didn't need stuff from them.

Yeah.

You know, similar to Mother's Day, it's about to be Mother's Day. I don't know how you're feeling. Is this your first Mother's Day?

Yeah, it's my first.

Congrats.

Thanks. I'm really excited.

Well, mothers everywhere. What I have noticed is that there's this narrative where we wake up and like, it's never enough. Like, we're never celebrated enough, we never get enough rest. There's never enough honor. And that's because we live under the effects of a fallen world. But I realized, you know what, I'm gonna take it too far on Mother's Day with gratitude for, for what God's done in my kids lives, for thinking about them, for thinking about the honor of getting to be a mother. And if I happen to get a new robe, praise God. But I'm not going to be looking at people needing that from them. So I would just say, like, take it too far. Receiving what you need from God and then the, the human approval, the likes, the, the glances, the compliments, they just, they start to feel empty.

Yeah. Yeah, they only last for so long, and then you want more. And then you're like, why am I still not satisfied resting in God's love? I just. One of the things that I sought out to do in my. All my time of becoming a new mom and you know, like the breastfeeding and the hidden moments and that I was like, I'm just gonna start memorizing scripture because like, you know my time like, of opening up, going to a coffee shop and just like getting my coffee and spending four hours in the Word and journal. Yeah, it's not happening right now. And so, so let me just, like, what I can do is while I'm feeding her or whatever it is, I can just meditate on scripture. And I love that you were speaking to God's love, because I just memorized Romans 8 and it's just talking so much about towards the end of it, it says what. What can separate you from the love of Christ? Like, and it goes on a list, all of these things shall trouble or hardship or nakedness or famine or danger or sort. Can any of those things separate you from the love of Christ?

No.

In all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. Come on. And then it goes on to say, for I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither present nor the future, nor anything else in all creatures. And he goes on and he just lists out all these things. Nothing, Come on. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

But we.

We don't believe it, we don't live it, and we look for other things to fill what only our hearts were designed to be filled by God. And I've just been. I've been so moved and changed by it. And I. I love that we've been speaking to truth and lies because the reality is, is that the lies are going to come, but we get to control whether we believe the lies and how much time we're spending in the truth. And for me, meditating and memorizing scripture has been such a game changer for me. It really has. Like, and not even just for me. When I memorize scripture, it's not even just for me. It just flows out of me. And someone will come up to me and start asking me for advice on something, and all of a sudden I'm like, wow, that's crazy because I just memorized this in the Bible and I get to just start speaking scripture over then them.

Yeah.

And so I also want to just tackle onto that too. Like whether you're Struggling with comparison or self approval or whatever it is. Really asking yourself, like, can God really love someone like me? Like, am I good enough to God? Go read Romans 8. Go memorize Romans 8. It might be the hardest thing you've ever done, because it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. It's a long passage, but it has been so good for me to just remember when I'm having those moments of not liking what I'm seeing in the mirror, I'm like, but God loves me. But God made me in his image. But I am a child of God. And this is what is promised to me as a child of God. And this is how God views me. And I get to go back to that. I want to kind of shift for a second back to talking about body shame. I think that for some of us, it's our own wrestles in our own minds. And for some of us it's our wrestles with what we see around us or on social media. But I also think that there are others of us where the struggle is our environment and what people are speaking over us.

Yeah.

And for some people, they have shame when it comes to their body image. Because of a parent.

Yeah.

Or because of a sibling or a friend that is making fun in a light way or just straight up being like, you're fat and you're not desirable, you're. You're ugly and no one would ever want you.

Yeah.

And those are, are real words that are being spoken to some people that I know are listening.

Yeah.

And so what do you do when you're trying to break free from body shame, but it feels like you can't break free from your environment that is shaming your body, whether it be a parent or, you know, someone that's going to just be in your life.

Okay. Well, first of all, I have to go back and I have to tell you that Romans 8 was the first passage I ever memorized around the time time I first had my kids.

You're lying.

And I hold very little of it still in my brain, but I still got there. Therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus for the law, the spirit of life saying, free from the law of sin and death. So I just had to tell you. I was like, wait, hold on. Do we just become best friends also? Should I go back and remember? I should. I need to.

It's so good. But it is a hard passage.

It is a hard passage, but it is deeply theological. I love that. Okay. Second. Yeah. I don't go A week. I don't go a week without getting. I mean, around the time the book launched, I wouldn't. I'd get 10 a day. But I don't go a week without getting a devastating message in my DMS from someone whose husband, mom, sister, you know, best friend, aunt, grandmother, dad. So many dads either says something in the past past or is. Is currently saying something just massively defaming their bodies. So here's what I want to say. For most of us growing up, this happened. Growing up, it was totally normal, right? Especially for me growing up in the 80s, it was totally normal. And kids, unfortunately, do not have the authority to reject lies that their parents are speaking over them. And that is devastating. And that's why a lot of us have some unlearning to do, some renaming to do. And so I, I just want to hold space and just grieve and say that's devastating that as kids, a lot of us didn't have somebody protecting us from things said about our bodies. Now, that being said, as adults, we do have authority. We do have authority to stop a conversation. We do have authority to say, I'm actually not going to allow you to speak like that about me anymore or like you anymore. We have the capacity to change the conversation. We have the capacity to go low and say, hey, this is something I'm really working on. Could you help me? We have the capacity to shift and move in relationships. We are not trees. We. We can move.

Yeah.

We can say like, this is actually an opportunity, not a safe place for me or a fruitful place for me anymore. We can set boundaries. We can do a million different things. But what I, what I will say first is this. We cannot make people the enemy because the enemy is the enemy. Yeah. And so a lot of us, especially when we start to break free from body shame, or we start to say, like, okay, there's some healing for me, or there's some fruit here. There's some freedom for me. We then begin to look at all the people in our lives and say, like, I can't believe they said that. My youth pastor said this, you know, 10 years ago. Or like, I heard this one woman say this one time, or my mom, mom, or my sister, or, you know, my dad or both my husband. And we want to make people the enemy, but the enemy of our souls is the enemy. He's the one who started this war. And most people are just repeating what they've been taught and what they've heard. So if we can have compassion for them first and say, you know what? They're, they're, they're not trying to defame God. They're not trying to defame me. Most people are just repeating what they've heard. Then we can, in compassion and love and in grace, be a part of potentially changing the conversation. And what I find is that in 90% of healthy relationships, all it takes is a conversation. All it takes is a time to say maybe. Maybe the behavior doesn't immediately change, maybe it doesn't mean there's never anything. But in most of the time, in a healthy relationship, you can go to another healthy adult, whether they know Jesus or not, and you can say, listen, I know, I know, I know you don't mean this.

This.

Like, I know you're not trying to hurt me. I, I know that you think this is totally normal. This is what I'm trying to work on. I'm trying to speak life over my body. It would mean a lot to me if you would help me. They may not be perfect, but in most healthy relationships, they'll hear you. And then if they don't, then we have a choice to make. What do I want to do about this? What boundaries do I want to set? If it's a group of girlfriends, do I. And they start talking negatively about their bodies, do I want to walk away? One practical tool I give women that I say, like, listen, you want to really change the culture, change the conversation. If you want to change the culture. One quick way to do that is after you take a group photo. Don't do the thing where you all go look at the back of the camera and talk bad about your body. When they ask, hey, Maddie, do you care which one we post? Say, like, no, I don't care. I post whichever one you want. It's my body. Like, it's, it's how I look, you know, even if I'm like in a picture, whatever, like, so be it. God's good that begins to change the culture. Just even by saying, like, I'm just not going to defame my body, you know, in front of you. I'm not going to join you in this conversation, but I would say go with grace and compassion if you can set boundaries when you need to.

Yeah, yeah. It, it is so hard. I know that there are, you know, some situations, even people that come to my mind that it's, you know, a repeated thing and it feels like every time, time, you know, they're around that person and it being a family member, you know, things are said and it just can bring tears and frustration and anger and, and it can be really hard not to harbor bitterness towards that person. Yeah. And not only are you harboring bitterness towards another person for shaming you, but then you're also carrying and feeling the shame. So it's like this double fold thing. And a lot of times when what to what you're saying, I think a lot of times, you know, the person that is shaming, sometimes they know what they're doing and they're doing it intentionally, but others they really don't. And it's kind of just flippant words. Yeah. And it, and it doesn't make it less hurtful.

Right.

But I do, I think what you're saying is, is so true and, and just the power of, of prayer and starting to pray. You spoke to this earlier, but you know, it says love your enemy enemies and pray for your enemies. And so even if your enemy feels like, not the enemy, but feels like a family member, you know, just start praying for them and start praying blessing. I don't mean like, you know, Lord, hurt them. Right. But like, bless them, Lord. Bless them, Lord. Pour out your favor upon them, Lord. Show them more ways of how you love them and, and show them who they are to you and how, how they can see themselves the way you see them and just begin to pray for them and watch your attitude and heart change. Rather than I need to prove myself to them or I need to get veng back and I need to repay evil with evil, it's instead you, you're able to then come to this posture of I just trust God is sovereign. I just trust God's got me. And if he says I'm good and if he says I'm beautiful and if he says I'm, you know, fearfully and wonderfully made, then I'm going to, I'm going to choose again to what we were saying earlier, not feel I'm going to choose to believe that. And I'm going to, I'm going to let the Lord be the Lord and I'm going to leave that to his, what he wants to do with that and, and just responding in kindness. Or I love the route of like even going low and saying, hey, this is, this is actually something I'm working on. Could you help me with this? Like, could you help me with, you know, and, and you don't even have to point fingers at them in that moment. Like, you can actually just be like, hey, this is something I'm struggling with. Would you mind just like really encouraging me in this, like, would you mind, like, anytime you see me, you know, I don't know, like, put on a, put on a bathing suit. We're all at the pool. Will you just tell me, like, you like my bathing suit? You know, that you, you think I'm awesome? Like, you just, Will you just, like, let me know?

Yeah.

And giving them an opportunity and bringing them into that insecurity in a way that doesn't point fingers, but in a way that, Yeah, I think it just, I think that's a really cool way to address it without, like.

Yeah.

Attacking the person.

I know you probably feel this way as an author, but I'm like, use me. Take the book to them and say, like, hey, I'm gonna read this. You want to read it with me? You want to start a book club? Like, you can pretend like you just found it. Like, oopsies. I actually met a woman at an event. I had an event recently, and she came and she was telling me she was, it was the sweetest thing, but she was telling me that she woke up one day and breaking free from body shame was like, on her doorstep. And she said, I, you know, I couldn't figure out who left it there. I couldn't figure out who delivered it to me. And she was like, but it radically changed my life. And I, I, I know that I was like the mean aunt, I was like the mean grandma who was, was, you know, defaming my kids bodies. And, and I was doing it, like, sometimes, like, putting Jesus pressure on it. And I, as she was telling me the story, I was like, sister, I know who left that on your door. It was, it was your daughter. It was your daughter. It might have been your niece. Like, as she told me this, where I was like, yep, I've, I've heard this woman before. Like, somebody just left it on my doorstep. Like, it was not an angel. It was not supernatural. That was a huge human.

That one was natural. Yeah. Oh, man. But it is so true too, what you're saying about, like, not seeing other people as your enemy. And I think that's one of the enemy's, like, biggest tactics and tools against us is to turn us against each other so that we fight with each other instead of fight him. Yeah. And if we could instead realize, okay, the struggle is not against other humans. It's actually against this devil who's after my soul and my contentment and my satisfaction in Jesus and in my intimacy with him and in my love and service with other people. And he does that by creating jealousy and Bitterness and comparison and all of these different things that create animosity between me and other people, so that I'm spending all my time and energy fighting them. And I'm not attacking him, and I'm not coming after him and rebuking him and putting him back in his place. And so I do think it's so important as believers that we need to remember that every day we have to put on the armor of God, that every day we have to remind ourselves of.

Of.

Like you spoke to at the very beginning, there's a Father of lies, and he comes to plant lies, and he comes to steal, kill, and destroy, and we got to put him back in his proper place, and we got to keep God in his proper place.

So good.

And, and, and ask yourself, like what you said at the very beginning, am I believing the Father, or am I believing the Father of lies?

Come on.

That's such a profound question that I think is a perfect way to end this. When we're talking about body shame and body image, there's going to be lies, there's going to be pressures, there's going to be things said that are hurtful. All that's. We live in a broken world. That's the reality. Yeah. And you just have to come back to this point where am I believing the lies or am I believing the truth? And you have to choose it, even if you don't feel it or believe it. I would love for you to just close us in prayer and pray for those who maybe even listening to this podcast didn't even know this was something they struggled with. And now they're having the revelation that this has been a stronghold and a, you know, a pain point in my life without even me recognizing it. Or those who are listening that this. This has kept them in bondage for a really long time and they haven't known how to break free.

Yeah. Maybe. My joy. Father, we just. We want to come into alignment and agreement with your truth. We know that our bodies live in the world, but we want to live in the kingdom. We want to live under the rules of the kingdom more than we live under the rules of our culture.

Yeah.

And so right now, God, I just pray over the. The women and maybe the men who are listening who have long heard lies spoken over their bodies. And we just ask in the name of Jesus, Holy Spirit, would you be a better communicator than I am? I thank you that you are. Would you send just vision and. And hope of truth and healing and freedom to their heart? Hearts right now, would you bring just a wild and bold courage that maybe they'd believe, that they'd start to believe that there is something more than this broken, chained, contained, living under the pressure to have the approval of humans. Um, God, would we just. Would you just whet our appetites for your glory? Would you'd wet our appetites for truth? Would you'd make us hunger and thirst for righteousness more than we hung hunger and thirst for other people to tell us that we're good or that we're beautiful? God, would you bind up our wounds on earth as it is in heaven? Would you bring healing to the broken parts of our hearts where these lies have done damage? God, I pray just a special blessing over the women who are struggling with disordered eating or behaviors right now, God, that they would feel shame falling off of them, that they would feel hope rising up in them, that they would feel courageous and hopeful for, for what's next, for the next bit of healing, for the next bit of truth that you're going to bring into their lives. God, I. I thank you for Maddie, for her platform, for her wisdom, for her leadership, for. For her boldness and courage to talk about her own body image. And we just ask in Jesus, Jesus name that you would continue to communicate truths far past this podcast in ways that only you can. Would you change our hearts? Would you change our minds? Would you change our lives? In Jesus name, Amen.

In Jesus name, amen. Thank you. Oh, that was so beautiful. I was moved to tears. And I'm just. I'm so thankful for you guys. And I pray that this was an episode where you just felt challenged and invigorated to walk in the truth and to walk in freedom, but you also just felt a safe space to confess the shame you've been feeling. And I just would encourage you to find a believer, to find someone, same sex, same gender, someone that you love and trust and someone who loves Jesus that you can go and confess to. If this is something you've been walking through, whether it's been a self obsession with your body or self neglect, self hatred and harm, wherever you fall in those categories, that you would take the next step to confess it to God and repent and confess it to a brother and sister in Christ. Brother if you're a male, sister if you're a female, always want to be clear about that. But we just. We love you guys and I believe in you guys. And I'm so excited to. To hear about how this episode impacted you. Let us know. And as always, guys. Be sure to stay you and stay true.

True. We love you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

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