Fighting the Spiritual Battle for Your Marriage with Gabe and Rebekah Lyons

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Episode Title: Fighting the Spiritual Battle for Your Marriage with Gabe and Rebekah Lyons
Release Date: April 21, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Background

In this deeply engaging episode of Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt, host Madison welcomes longtime friends and marriage role models, Gabe and Rebecca Lyons. Celebrating 28 years of marriage, Gabe and Rebecca share their journey, challenges, and the spiritual battles they've faced together. Their new book, The Fight for Us, is also highlighted, offering listeners invaluable insights into maintaining a thriving marriage through faith and intentionality.

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Love Story: From Friendship to Lifelong Partnership

Gabe and Rebecca begin by recounting their initial meeting at Liberty University. [07:31] Gabe Lyons reminisces, “We met briefly at a wedding. Yeah. And it was like, he's cute. She's cute. But that was it.” Their friendship blossomed over shared experiences and mutual growth, leading them to realize their deep connection despite previous engagements. [13:28] Rebecca Lyons reflects, “Then two weeks later, my fiancé comes to visit and we bump into him again… I just wrestle with it for the next month.” Their decision to end previous relationships paved the way for their enduring bond, encapsulated by their playful nod to rebounding: “We've been rebounding for 28 years.”

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Seasons of Marriage: Navigating Transitions and Challenges

Gabe and Rebecca discuss the various seasons of their marriage, each presenting unique challenges and growth opportunities. [18:58] Rebecca Lyons shares, “In the first seven years, we had all three kids… It was a lonely, hidden place that sometimes moms can go to early if they don't have an outlet.” They emphasize the importance of adapting to life changes together, whether it's parenting, career shifts, or personal growth. [21:31] Grant, Madison’s partner, adds his perspective on handling personal struggles within a marriage, highlighting the universal nature of these challenges.

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Mental Health and Spiritual Warfare in Marriage

A significant portion of the conversation delves into mental health issues, particularly Rebecca’s experience with panic disorder. [30:09] Grant connects this to his own experiences, emphasizing the importance of support and understanding. [31:00] Gabe Lyons offers insights on supporting a spouse through mental health struggles, stressing empathy and spiritual support. [32:23] Rebecca Lyons recounts a pivotal moment when she overcame her panic attacks through faith and support from Gabe: “And I just feel like the Lord's like, we're gonna have to give you a little respite here so that you'll save.”

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Practical Advice for Struggling Marriages

Gabe and Rebecca provide actionable strategies for couples facing marital challenges:

1. Commitment to Stay: [38:01] Rebecca Lyons advises, “Our commitment is to stay.” Emphasizing the importance of vows and covenant over contractual agreements, they highlight unwavering dedication as the foundation for overcoming conflicts.

2. Regular Check-Ins: [49:56] Gabe Lyons recommends annual “SWOT” analyses of marriage, encouraging couples to celebrate successes and address areas needing improvement.

3. Dedicated Time Together: Prioritizing uninterrupted time, whether through annual getaways or weekly date nights, to foster connection and intimacy. [50:37] Rebecca Lyons shares their practice of taking trips to reconnect and remind themselves of their love story.

4. Effective Communication: Emphasizing open dialogue without defensiveness. [55:47] Rebecca Lyons suggests, “Ask your wife, are you asking for a listening ear or advice?”

5. Shared Growth: [44:22] Rebecca Lyons underscores the importance of growing together through shared experiences, books, and podcasts, ensuring both partners evolve collectively.

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Rhythms and Intentionality in Marriage

The Lyons discuss the necessity of establishing intentional rhythms to prevent passive, roommate-like marriages:

• Annual Life Inventory: Regularly assessing the marriage’s strengths and areas for growth.
• Quality Time: Ensuring consistent, dedicated moments to strengthen the marital bond.
• Shared Spiritual Practices: Incorporating faith-based activities to maintain a spiritual connection.

[46:18] Rebecca Lyons emphasizes, “Our commitment is to stay all of a sudden creates a boundary of safety to work.”

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Faith and Spirituality: The Cornerstone of a Thriving Marriage

Gabe and Rebecca attribute their enduring marriage to their deep faith and reliance on the Holy Spirit. [68:39] Rebecca Lyons reflects on 2 Corinthians 4:16, “so we don't focus on what is seen, but what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.” They discuss how faith provides an eternal perspective, enabling them to handle everyday struggles with grace and resilience.

Gabe Lyons shares transformative scripture insights, particularly 1 Peter 3:7, urging husbands to cherish their wives to ensure their prayers are answered: “If you don't cherish your wife, I don't care what she's bringing to the table.”

[71:53] Rebecca Lyons adds, “When you are led by him, you can lead us,” highlighting the importance of spiritual leadership in marriage.

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Handling Conflicts: From Fighting to Feeling and Healing

The Lyons outline a structured approach to managing marital conflicts:

1. Defining the Fight: Understanding the root causes and dynamics of conflicts.
2. Emotional Honesty: Moving from attacks to expressing vulnerabilities and emotions.
3. Origin Stories and Attachment Styles: Exploring personal backgrounds and how they influence current behaviors.
4. Practical Solutions: Addressing common marital topics like sex, money, parenting, and career with empathy and understanding.

[58:44] Gabe Lyons discusses the importance of ordering priorities correctly, referencing C.S. Lewis’s concept of prioritizing first things over second.

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Eternal Purpose and Generational Impact of Marriage

In the closing moments, Rebecca and Gabe speak about the eternal significance of marriage and its impact across generations. [63:43] Rebecca Lyons connects their marriage to biblical covenants, emphasizing forgiveness, healing, and building a legacy of faith: “If we can just be aware of them, process and know the enemy will constantly be trying to use these things to divide.”

They encourage couples to seek an eternal perspective, ensuring their marriage not only thrives in the present but also leaves a lasting spiritual legacy for future generations.

[66:34] Gabe Lyons underscores the spiritual warfare aspect, motivating men to protect and cherish their marriages as a battleground against the enemy’s attempts to divide.

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Conclusion: Hope and Encouragement for All Couples

Madison wraps up the episode by highlighting the Lyons' heartfelt message: "Do not settle. Do not compromise. There is always hope." She encourages listeners to seek support, engage in honest conversations, and embrace the spiritual foundation that can transform their marriages.

Rebecca and Gabe express gratitude for being part of the podcast, reiterating their commitment to help other couples through their experiences and their new book, The Fight for Us. They urge listeners to embrace vulnerability, foster deep connections, and rely on faith to navigate the complexities of marriage.

Final Notable Quote:
[77:11] Grant praises, “Thanks for setting the tone and the bar. I know it's not easy,” reflecting the profound impact Gabe and Rebecca have had on their friends' marriages and communities.

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Key Takeaways

• Intentionality is Crucial: Regularly invest time and effort into maintaining and strengthening the marital bond.
• Open Communication: Foster an environment where both partners feel safe to express vulnerabilities without fear of judgment or defensiveness.
• Faith as a Foundation: Let spirituality guide and sustain the marriage, providing resilience against external and internal challenges.
• Shared Growth and Experiences: Continuously grow together through shared activities, learning, and mutual support.
• Commitment Above All: Uphold the vows and remain steadfast in the face of adversity, viewing marriage as a lifelong covenant.

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Recommended Actions for Listeners

• Engage in Regular Check-Ins: Implement annual or bi-annual reviews of your marriage’s strengths and areas for improvement.
• Prioritize Quality Time: Schedule consistent date nights or getaways to nurture your connection.
• Seek Faith-Based Support: Incorporate spiritual practices and seek guidance from faith-aligned counselors to navigate marital challenges.
• Communicate Openly: Practice honest and empathetic communication, focusing on understanding rather than fixing.
• Read The Fight for Us: Gain deeper insights and practical tools by exploring Gabe and Rebecca’s comprehensive guide to a thriving marriage.

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Notable Quotes

• Rebecca Lyons [01:05]: “If you don't cultivate your interests together as a couple beyond launching kids, then you'll look at each other once they've left home and you're like, I don't know what we have.”

• Gabe Lyons [06:48]: “Marriage was all about that first six months. I bet. Like, I'm selfish.”

• Rebecca Lyons [15:05]: “If physical illness would not be an excuse to leave, why would mental struggle be an excuse to leave?”

• Gabe Lyons [25:34]: “Any thoughts we've had about somebody else, fantasies, we talk about it. And that didn't start early, but we've learned how to do that.”

• Rebecca Lyons [38:01]: “I'm not leaving the room. We will work through it, and we will take as long as it needs, and we will get all the help and support we need.”

• Gabe Lyons [54:02]: “How does a spouse respond? When their spouse is acknowledging something that is going to be hurtful… we had many nights, you know, where I could stay awake… having these conversations in bed about something hard.”

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This episode serves as a beacon of hope and guidance for couples navigating the complexities of marriage. Gabe and Rebecca Lyons offer a testament to the power of faith, intentionality, and unwavering commitment in overcoming marital challenges. Their insights and practical advice provide a roadmap for building a resilient and spiritually grounded marriage.

Transcript

[Gabe Lyons]

I remember her walking in and I could just see in her eyes the sense of like she'd lost her energy for our marriage.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Sin is so subtle, but it started for me with kind of this resignation of agreement. And I write about it in the book of it is what it is.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What would you go back and say to your 2 year old married selves?

[Rebecca Lyons]

How many of us stay in something that we don't have a peace about, but we're so afraid that we're not going to find something else? How do you know that? You know that? You know that this guy is the one that's been.

[Gabe Lyons]

One of the rules in our marriage is there's just no secrets.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Physical illness would not be an excuse to leave. Why would mental struggle be an excuse to leave? It's the loneliness, I think, for women that makes them retreat not just emotionally, but physically.

[Grant]

It just seems like a theme of Yalls. Marriage was like moments where she was vulnerable in front of you and you saw her and you had a crossroads to go, am I going to lead or not?

[Gabe Lyons]

You have to talk about what you're walking through.

[Rebecca Lyons]

If you don't cultivate your interests together as a couple beyond launching kids, then you'll look at each other once they've left home and you're like, I don't know what we have.

[Grant]

What do we do?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, don't tell me what I need to do because I already know what.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I need to do.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Just listen.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I just want you to hear me lament for a minute. Sit in the hole with me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and Grant and I are here in the podcast studio with some of our dear, dear friends. And I'm so excited to introduce. Well, actually, Rebecca Lyons has already been on this podcast before and you guys have been very blessed by it. But now we have her husband Gabe. So we got Gabe and Revecca Lions here on the podcast and I'm so excited. They have been such a blessing to our marriage and to us in moving to Tennessee and just figuring out marriage and now parenting. And they have a new book coming out. It's actually this podcast going to be dropping, like right when the book is dropping, which is perfect, and it's called the Fight for Us. And we're going to be talking in this podcast all about marriage today. And so welcome guys to the podcast.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Thank you. I'm excited.

[Gabe Lyons]

Thanks for having us, guys. We love you guys.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Stay with me on this.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I know they're so cute, you guys. He was already, like, tucking her hair, but he's like, hold on, let me get honored before.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I know. He knows. He knows we've done enough on camera where I'm like, man, my hair. What was happening there? And he's like, now he's like, my mirror.

[Grant]

I love it, I love it, I love it.

[Rebecca Lyons]

It was so cute.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I was like, guys, save it for the podcast. This is perfect.

[Grant]

They're in love.

[Rebecca Lyons]

This is a good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You guys have been married for 28 years. You have four kids. I mean, and you look like you're 18 years old.

[Grant]

Unbelievable.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

They look so good.

[Grant]

It looks really good. From this point right here, I think I've literally told.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I've gone up to record, and I'm like, you look hot.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like, you look so good to say every.

[Gabe Lyons]

No, that's never happened.

[Grant]

Gabe walked in in the all brown, and I was like, dude, you look phenomenal.

[Gabe Lyons]

No, but Rebecca, every time we're out somewhere, I mean, people do think she's, like, in her 30s, which is pretty impressive.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I did eat off the kids meal till I was, like, 18.

[Grant]

That's what Madd.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Like, my dad kind of had, like, a baby face, and I got. I got that from him. And I was like, at some point, I'll really appreciate looking young, but at 18, I still look like I was.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, people tell us that all the time. I'll get asked, like, when I'm graduating high school, And I'm like, JP recently.

[Grant]

Was like, are you 23 or four? I'm like, nine, brother, not 30.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I know.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Almost out of 30.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I know it's a good problem to have.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Especially through the years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We're grateful now, so.

[Grant]

Good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Well, I joked with Grant right before this podcast. I was like, this is honestly going to be just marriage counseling and therapy for us. Rebecca came on, and it was, like, the best therapy session I've ever had.

[Grant]

Yeah, I remember you coming home. Like, I think that was better for my soul than anybody else.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

There was a moment where I, like, went from asking her questions to. Then she turns and she's like, so get me into. And I'm like, oh.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I was like, we just switched mics. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So I'm excited. Our marriage is going to be better after this podcast because of this.

[Grant]

Well, absolutely.

[Gabe Lyons]

How long have you been married?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We've been married for two and a half years.

[Grant]

Two and a half.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Look at Gabe already asking the question.

[Grant]

No, that's our job, brother. Don't take control.

[Gabe Lyons]

Well, I'm Just getting context what we're working with here.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Even had our first At. Right. At three years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Our first baby. So two and a half.

[Grant]

It's flown. It feels like five, but we.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I would say the first six months of our marriage. Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

Oh, yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And then I would say amazing. And then baby, baby.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Which. Which will do it again.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Marriage counseling. This is really good for us.

[Grant]

It's been.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, every transition.

[Grant]

Yes.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Always yields this new, like, friction.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Every transition. So I'd love to say this is your last time that you'll be like. But you're just getting started.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Wow.

[Rebecca Lyons]

That's the thing, though. Every. I mean, and you didn't even ask. But that's for us. The conflict always comes when there's a shift because neither of us were both rookies at this new Whatever.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And we both are navigating it differently, and we have to figure out what does compromise look like now? What are. How am I, you know, getting irritated, Irritating. Are you doing the same?

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

In the new season, and it's usually around kids or whatever season they're in, so.

[Gabe Lyons]

Or work or significant life change beyond just a child moving to a new city just transitions all around for you guys has been significant. So trying to settle into a new life, but then also become parents and.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

All that comes with that. It's. It's a lot. And I know when we had Cade, you know, our first, you know, it just threw us into a tail. And it truly. God used that season to recenter my heart for him and my purpose and my mission in life. Like, God used that firstborn child.

[Grant]

Right.

[Gabe Lyons]

To just help me get a hold of, like, what he's doing in the world, but also what my role is as a father.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And what that future ought to look like. So God uses these moments. There's friction, it's hard, it's exposing.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Stuff comes out that you're like, oh, Lord, I thought that was dealt with before.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I thought I knew the gospel, you know, and then I got married, and then I had a child. I'm like, wow, this really shows you sacrificial, unconditional love.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, I know.

[Gabe Lyons]

Well, you see how God uses, you know, in your marriage, first each of you to. To sharpen each other. I mean, it's. Iron sharpens iron. I think that's not just like, men and men as friends. This is like marriage. It's like Rebecca has impacted how I live, how I treat other people, how I treat her, how I have a mirror up to my life. Of my weaknesses, and it's a sanctification process. And then you have the child, and it's like you're trying to go to new levels of unselfishness. Right. Like, marriage was all about that first six months. I bet. Like, I'm selfish.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I want it my way, My version of things.

[Grant]

Yeah, man. For sure. No, it's so good. Okay, so I'm gonna start us off. I'm gonna ask the first question. You okay with that?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Go.

[Grant]

Two and a half years versus 28. And I think, like, groups of seven, like, y'all have had four groups of seven years is how I just, like, view yalls marriage for whatever reason. I want to hear the love story. First off, I want to hear how Gabe came in and swooped off Rebecca. And it can go briefly, but in that, I want you guys to tell us a little bit. Like, if y'all have had four different chapters of seven years, like, what are some things that you would encourage the listeners and us? Like, what have y'all learned in those different chapters as you've grown together?

[Rebecca Lyons]

That is such a solid question. I've never been asked that question about seeing our marriage in four quadrants, which is true. Like, it definitely. Every season has been very different. So you want to start.

[Gabe Lyons]

Listen, here's how Rebecca and I met. I was entering college. She had. She was a freshman in college. We went to Liberty University.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Liberty.

[Gabe Lyons]

Oh, yeah.

[Grant]

I knew such a weak school.

[Gabe Lyons]

We. We found ourselves with a group of friends one night, hanging out late night, having fun.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We met briefly at a wedding. Yeah. And it was like, he's cute. She's cute. But that was it.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And then we got back to school. It was, like, a month before we got back to school. I was starting my sophomore year. He was a freshman, so we just had.

[Grant]

All right.

[Rebecca Lyons]

The memory is 10 months older and still look younger.

[Grant]

You're crushing it.

[Gabe Lyons]

You look so good. Early. So early on, we had this one evening. Nothing physical, just hanging out, had fun, laughing. We stayed up all night, literally, like, joking, having a blast together.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, okay.

[Gabe Lyons]

With a big group. It was a big group of friends till the morning.

[Grant]

Oh, my God.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We need more detail on the couch. It was a cookout at a friend's house before school started, like, the weekend prior. Everyone came back early, and so we were on campus, yet we weren't allowed to get on. But, like, he threw this huge barbecue, so there's like 40 of us. And so we.

[Gabe Lyons]

Rangers at Liberty.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

Okay.

[Grant]

Got some burgers.

[Gabe Lyons]

There's no alcohol.

[Rebecca Lyons]

All Night. Oh, yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

It's just a nice family.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Fun guys and are you, like, chefing it up? Like.

[Gabe Lyons]

No, I was just hanging out. I was cooking.

[Rebecca Lyons]

No, he. But our friends and a lot of our mutual. It was like a first time we were all seeing each other again second year of college back. And he knew a lot of them anyways because he grew up there. So anyways, we were there and so people just wound up, like, hanging out late. And then all of a sudden people are just sleeping on the floor. Like everyone just wound up staying around. So we were like laying on a couch like this together. Just like laughing, telling jokes hysterically like idiots till three in the morning. Like. Like trying, like, crying, laughing, Never kissed. Nothing. Just like.

[Grant]

Gabe didn't go in for it.

[Gabe Lyons]

No. Okay.

[Grant]

I respect that, father.

[Gabe Lyons]

Thank you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No love at first sight.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah. No, it was hard. It wasn't. It was friendship at first sight.

[Rebecca Lyons]

It was like chemistry, but not physical chemistry. It was like we just had so much fun together. It's like you just met a bestie and you're like, where have you been? But you're kind of cute. But I'm more just like loving the dialogue.

[Grant]

Totally.

[Gabe Lyons]

So then, I mean, I gotta make this story a little quicker.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Okay.

[Gabe Lyons]

Because it's a long story. But the color, you can see it.

[Grant]

You're on the couch, you're head to head.

[Gabe Lyons]

We both end up over those next few years dating other people very seriously.

[Rebecca Lyons]

So we never got together.

[Gabe Lyons]

Rebecca was engaged.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yes.

[Grant]

Okay.

[Gabe Lyons]

Someone else. I was almost engaged. You know, like, things were heading those directions until a moment, probably it was three years after that.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

That we both similarly broke off those relationships.

[Rebecca Lyons]

A little more color in that too, is though, that I finished in three years to marry this guy that was a year ahead of me. And he. And so I had like six more credits to do with an internship. But I knew within a couple weeks, like, this is not. This is not. I just cried all summer. So I was like, I'm gonna go back for my senior year. And stayed engaged. But just to like. And so he saw me the first day of school and remembers what I was wearing. Let's just say hot pink dress. Hot pink dress.

[Gabe Lyons]

A little Ralph Lauren.

[Grant]

Not a little Ralph Lauren.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And he's still with his girl and he was with a mutual friend. And he's like, trouble in paradise. She's back. But I'm like, no, things are great. I just want to come back and finish my senior year with all my girlfriends. Um, and it wasn't until like three months later that I did go get my wedding dress finally with the girls because, like, I was more up to the wedding when I wasn't back with him and his family, which says something like, I was too scared to end it, but also knew didn't have peace.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And so that night, after I bought my wedding dress in Greensboro, which was like two hours away, and brought bridesmaids with me, and we show up at a party again, a party similar to that initial party, where we were, like, hanging out.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And he comes up to me and he's like, how do you know that? You know that? You know that this guy is the one? Wow.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And I was like, oh, my. Why are you a. Asking me this? We haven't had this kind of conversation in ever and ever. And secondly, that hot ping dress. Yeah. I was like, you wanted clarity. And I was like, why are you asking? He's like, well, because I'm about to propose to this person, and I feel like I'm only 97% and that 3% I can't shake. And so then I was like, okay, so he's not hitting on me. He's actually just really trying to seek clarity. And what he didn't know is I've actually been like 50, 50 for months and couldn't confront it. And yet he had the courage or confidence to go, like, how do you know? And I'm like, totally lied through my teeth. I'm like, you just know. You just know.

[Grant]

So unsettled in your spirit, but you just know.

[Rebecca Lyons]

A wedding dress four hours ago. I can't change my mind.

[Grant]

Oh, my God.

[Rebecca Lyons]

So this is why this matters, right? So then two weeks later, my fiance comes to visit and we bump into him again. And I'm like, oh, hi, cuz Call.

[Gabe Lyons]

It's a small school. We were.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, well, it's thousands. But we were all, like, in the middle of this area, convening area between classes where everybody sees each other. And he says, how's your person's name? And you're like, we actually just broke up. And I'm standing there like, oh, wow. Like, I guess he didn't know and he ended it. And I just felt convicted. So convicted by that courage. Because I thought, how many of us, like, stay in something that we don't have a piece about, but we're so afraid that we're not going to find something else? And I just. I was like, ah. I just. I just wrestle with it for, like, the next month. And so finally, eventually, I had the courage to end it. But it did take almost like a catalytic. And we. Again, we're not. We were not talking or anything. I was just more, like, curious about that courage just to walk away from something with just even a sliver of doubt that lingers. I think. I think that's what we have to pay attention to. It's. It's okay to feel afraid of, like, that kind of a commitment, but when you have a lingering thing for a year or two, there's something more. Totally. So.

[Gabe Lyons]

Wow. That. That essentially is how we both were then available. Rebound. We started hanging out for months, and now we say we've been rebounding for 28 years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You still got that hot pink dress.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, our friends kept going. Like, you guys kind of like each other, don't you? We're like, no, we're just friends because we were so afraid. Afraid to, like.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah, we really were scared of getting back in a relationship because those were so serious and meaningful. So it took, I mean, I don't know, six months before we started to even pay attention and be like, maybe. Maybe we should pay attention because we did always want to be together on the couch.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We always wanted to be together. We, like, y'all felt it. Yeah. We had friendship like that. That came really easy.

[Gabe Lyons]

So much fun together and just connection and similar dreams and passions for the. For our future that we're living into now. I would say. Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I think that was another alignment piece. I think that's a big piece. Question when people meet is like, can I imagine a future with them where we're on mission together, we kind of care about the same things. We get energized. Like, there's a momentum that naturally happens just out of the synergy. And I did not have that with the other person, and you didn't either. And so it wasn't that they weren't amazing and loving people. And, like, there were so many good qualities about them, but, like, we just couldn't envision a future of flourishing.

[Grant]

Sure. For sure. That was Matt. That was your story, I would say, with the previous relationship.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I felt same thing. You were just saying it was like 90 or you were saying 97%. And I was like, but that 3%. And I don't know that our futures and our callings fully align.

[Gabe Lyons]

Right.

[Grant]

Both love Jesus, but just not Jesus.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. It's just hard. Yeah. And that's. That's hard. That's a hard decision.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. And what. Honestly, I mean, this wasn't on the agenda to ask, you know, But I'm like, let's just jump in.

[Rebecca Lyons]

What.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because I actually a lot of people have. Have asked me this and it's kind of hard to answer because peace is hard to like, quantify and like put a. This is what God's piece. Because it could be different for everyone. But what would you guys say to the person who is in a relationship? They're having doubts, they don't feel complete peace, but they're dating someone who loves God, and the relationship would be, from the outside looking in, described as good.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I would say the first question is, is there fruit in your life? Like, do they bring out the best in you? Like, have you grown and do you envision a future together that that would continue? Not. That's not just the only marker. Do you have great chemistry? Do you have fun? Can you be yourself?

[Gabe Lyons]

Those are what's happening a lot with younger couples right now, especially Gen Z and the early marriage conversations. And what's taking place is I think kids are feeling a lot of anxiety about some things that they're lacking peace. But it may not be because the person they're with is the problem. The person they're with, like you experienced your first year of marriage, is starting to bring out some things in them that are very uncomfortable. Right. They're having to face some things that they never have felt before. They're having to face responsibility, stepping up. Sacrifice, Maturity. Yeah, sacrifice. And that can also feel unpeaceful. So I think it's that discernment, like Rebecca's saying, you've got to look to who are the people nearby that are watching and observing this relationship? Are they seeing fruit in your life? If you've got these questions and let's evaluate, is this just you having a hard time with like, this next step of commitment? Because we know a lot of people aren't taking the step. They're not up to it. It feels too challenging. They walk away because they are scared that they either don't have enough money, they haven't figured out their job and career plan yet, they don't have it all mapped out. And I think our encouragement to couples is you don't have to have all that figured out. God's going to walk with you through it. You're going to start to discover those things together. And what more fun than to do that with your person and grow together versus have it all figured out and then maybe miss the moment. And I've got some sad stories of friends who never made that decision when they had their person. And they look back with a lot of Regret. Now they're either still single because they're like, yeah, kind of.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Or everyone compares to that one. Right. And just kind of misses the mark. I think that, I think the tension that's so needed in a relationship is that you can fully be yourself. Whether that's silly or goofy or fun or dumb or whatever. But then you also, that person's gonna refine and prune and mature you at the same time. Like if you can have both of those things, not one, not the other. Like if you have just one or just the other, like you're not growing, you're not, you don't, you're not on mission. Maybe you're just staying immature or whatever. But if you get both, then you're fully known and loved as you are.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

While you're also being called forward to, to bear fruit together.

[Grant]

It's good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. I love the, the discernment factor of like, is this a you problem, is this a me problem or is this a us problem? Because it is like such a good question to ask, man. That's so good. Well, you kind of hinted to this of the like seven different, what did you say? The four different, four different sections. And I guess like I would ask, we are two and a half years married, so we're, we're still pretty fresh. You guys are 28 years married. What would you go back and say to your 2 year old married selves?

[Gabe Lyons]

I know for me it would be, relax, number one. Grant's like, relax.

[Rebecca Lyons]

She'S having a biscuit.

[Grant]

I will never in my life say those words.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, I know you better not.

[Gabe Lyons]

But, but yeah, I mean, things when you're in your 20s, 30s, and you're just starting out, there's so much pressure. I think we all feel it could be career pressure. Like is our marriage working? Am I doing everything perfect? Am I spending time with God every day? Are we praying together as a couple? You know, it's like all these things that start to mount up and create this pressure. And I think I would go back and just say, take a breath like God's with you guys. Enjoy one another. Recognize something. This is what I'd say to you guys even about these two and a half years, that you're both too good willed people. Like, you're amazing people. I know you, I know your heart, I know what God's called you towards. I know you and I see the fruit in your life. And God brought the two of you together. And very quickly the enemy wants to start to create all Kinds of disruption about this. Well, doubt, you know? Yeah, doubt or character qualities that we all of a sudden are starting to bring up, or we think we're the one that's supposed to refine our spouse. I'm supposed to make Rebecca more in the image of the woman that I hoped she would be. And I think those in those first seven years become the battles you have to quickly start to work through as, like, wait, God's the refiner of Rebecca, not me. And so let's focus on me and let him refine me. And he'll use her to humble me. He'll use her to be someone I can cherish and serve, but take the attention off of the spouse and start to put it back on yourself really good.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And in the first seven years, we had had all three kids. So our Cade came three years, then Pierce at five, and then Kennedy at seven. So I remember seven being really hard, actually really, really hard. And it was the first time partly because I came home full time once. Cade was 10 months old. He has down syndrome for those who don't know diagnosis. And he was up to about 8 hours of therapy by 10 months old per week. And so I just left my job that I was going to maintain but couldn't do that well. And so I just came home and stayed home full time in that season because of just adding Pierce, then adding Kennedy. And you were in the season of launching and always innovating at work. And I was like, can we just have a. You know, can I have an adult conversation at some point this week? That'd be awesome. Yeah. So I. It wasn't like my. It wasn't like the. There was a lonely, hidden place that sometimes moms can go to early if they don't have an outlet. And if we're not careful, then we put so much pressure on our spouse to fill that void of just humanness of like, you've gotta. You gotta be on at work, but then you gotta come home and make me feel like I'm not a loser because I. All I did today was shower and.

[Grant]

Pick up and sing and hand out.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I get a shower. It's a really good shower.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I know. It was like victory shower. And then we got to Chick fil a at some point for, like. For like a play date this week that was. Or Target returns, you know, like, what did we do that was monumental. But all that to say, I remember at seven years, and I'm. We're just gonna go there because I don't think people talk about this Enough. But I noticed a gabe. This was a loving act. But he got me a personal trainer after my third, my third baby.

[Grant]

Just the subtle.

[Rebecca Lyons]

It was like, no, it was like I was just feeling meh. And I was like, I need to, I need to go to the gym. I need to get working out, whatever. Well, I noticed in that year after having babies, like, I noticed for the first time like there were men in the world outside of my husband that like, oh, like, you know, you people go to the gym and like somebody starts talking to you and you're like, I don't really know you. Why are you over here talking to me? And, and I just remember noticing like a couple situations where I felt like I had the attention of a man. And it wasn't, it wasn't what we would call flirty, but enough to be like, I feel like there's a little eye contact there that's not necessary. And I just remember telling. I feeling like I'm processing this because I'd felt ugly and unseen and hidden and like momming for seven years. And so I just remember one night being like, hey, I just noticed there's like three different guys that like pay attention to me more than I think is probably natural or appropriate and not responsive. But I'm observing. And I was scared to even say that, like to bring that up or whatever. But I'm really glad that I did because he was just like, wow. He's like, it shows me how much more I should be cherishing you so that like you're feeling that from me first and you're not even observing or picking up on that from. So even that was a seven year to conversation that some people don't have, you know, that's really good or are afraid to have. But again, we had always had some pretty clear boundaries on how, how we engage others, you know, outside of our marriage of the opposite sex.

[Gabe Lyons]

But yeah, that's hearing her say that, it's still a gut punch.

[Grant]

Right.

[Gabe Lyons]

Other guys were looking at me, you know what I mean? It's 100% one of those things. As a man, you go, okay, is that on her? Is that on me? And I, I went to that place of this is on me. Like, how am I helping my wife feel? Loved, beautiful, cherished. Yeah, yeah. And pursued. So there's no vacuums, there's no vulnerability there. Because that's I think a lot of relationships. Yeah, yeah. She has that need. I mean, of course. And, and so.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And they might have just been making conversation, but interested in my opinion on something or asking questions. And I'm like, I don't know that I've been asked a question.

[Grant]

Totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

No, that makes sense.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, that's.

[Gabe Lyons]

And those are the things you hear that seven year itch.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

That phrase.

[Grant]

That's why I broke up.

[Gabe Lyons]

Of like.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And that was. That was.

[Gabe Lyons]

Those are the moments. A lot of people are having children. They're very distracted.

[Grant]

Right.

[Gabe Lyons]

There's career.

[Rebecca Lyons]

They're missing each other.

[Gabe Lyons]

Not necessarily as my wife feeling as purposeful outside of being a mom, you know, so there's just all these things colliding.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

That if we can just be aware of them, process and know the enemy will constantly be trying to use these things to divide.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And talk about them. And that was the thing Rebecca did that was so brave. She said, I'm going to share this really good. And a lot of people are too scared to share those types of things. It feels like that could hurt my spouse or. Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, it also made me curious to be like, are there women talking to you at work all day long?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She's like, so do you have anything?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

I mean, we did have those conversations early, like at work. And. And who are the other women around? And are you attracted to them in any way? I mean, these are.

[Grant]

That's good to talk about.

[Gabe Lyons]

Vulnerable conversations. That the more we were opening up to each other, this was now creating a safe place. It was like, oh, we don't want that at all.

[Grant]

Let's talk about it.

[Gabe Lyons]

And so that's been one of the rules in our marriage is there's just no secrets. Anything that happens, any thoughts we've had about somebody else, fantasies, we talk about it. And that didn't start early, but we've learned how to do that.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Just because you. You can. You can be just walking through life and you're like, happy as clam. And still the enemy will try to plant an intrusive thought seed.

[Grant]

Yes.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And if you. If you just, like, let that linger, it will grow. And versus going, like, I didn't see that coming. I don't even want that thought. I just need to come to you and share that thought.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's hard to be, like, receptive when. When your spouse is like, hey, I'm. I'm struggling with this, or I'm tempted in this way. Or I. It is to not get defensive, angry, or super hurt. Yeah. And. And to still be a safe place for them so that they feel safe to always be honest with you and to come to you before it leads to more. More in a bigger sin. That can be really challenging to do. How have you guys, like, had.

[Gabe Lyons]

Well, Maddie, I think you're making the best point, which is how does a spouse respond?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

When their spouse is acknowledging something that is going to be hurtful, possibly it could be something they've done that's hurtful or in this case, just observing something. Either way, we do get defensive because we're like, no, no, no, that's not okay. And I think what I've experienced with Rebecca is, is a, a true kindness about those kinds of conversations to create that safe place. I'm sure, I'm sure I can't remember all of them, but I'm sure at first it was hard, but there was a commitment. I mean, I just remember laying in bed for hours having these conversations. So it wasn't like a quick thing. It was like, no, we're gonna process through all of this. What does this mean? And we had many nights, you know, where I could stay awake. Now I fall asleep, but I remember being up till three in the morning having these conversations in bed about something hard that we're like, well, we're just gonna keep.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

Processing.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We were younger, we had more energy. Now we're like, are we gonna go take this in the morning? Yeah, I think we'll be good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Love you.

[Grant]

Yeah. I feel like we're already there. We're on that 9:30.

[Rebecca Lyons]

You have a 50 year old version of Grace, right? Have a newborn.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Newborn, yep.

[Rebecca Lyons]

It's the same amount of energy. Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

But there's other moments, you know, Rebecca, this was, I don't know, seven years ago. Walked in the room one night after a lot of us just having a. A season that was a hard season. This probably gets to the last seven, like year 21, something like that. And I remember her walking in and I could just see in her eyes this sense of like. Like she'd lost her energy for our marriage. And there was a sense of just desperation and like, I can't keep doing this. Yeah. Like the thing we're doing, this dysfunctional way, we just interact and keep things peaceful on the outside, but it's not going as deep as I long for on the inside. It's. I could just see in her eyes and I just remember in that moment, the Holy Spirit gave me the ability to see. This is, this isn't just like a normal conversation. This is big time. And I just remember being convicted to go right to her and to hold her and to offer the kindest, thoughtful words I could Offer, which is, I'm so committed to you. I'm in this. I want to do the work that you're experiencing in me. Some areas that I haven't sharpened that I've got to just do more work in. And if you'll give me the chance, I'm going to do the work, but I want you to walk through it with me. And she graciously responded to that, and it literally broke free. Something that had been hanging for months.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Remember, a couple years. But yes. Yeah, I think it was. So. It's like. It's so subtle. Sin is so subtle. But it started for me with kind of this resignation of agreement. And I write about it in the book of, like, just, it is what it is. And it feels like compliance and passive. But by saying, even the state of our marriage, it is what it is, means any repair or resur. It's just beyond the power of the cross and the resurrection. Like, if you just, like, status quo, like, it is what it is, then you. You've lost hope. There are a lot of marriages that are like, it is what it is. I don't want to ruffle anything. I don't really want to get to the root. But you will not heal. There will not be resurrection life in your marriage. So it's a hard one, and it does. It's very costly because it does feel very risky. But I want to back up. So we had seven years of that kind of conversation, and the 14 would have been 20. I don't know. I can't do math. Basically, 2011, we were in New York, and I was like, in the middle of panic disorder. So that was. That was that season.

[Gabe Lyons]

That was a new thing that had not been part of our marriage for 14 years, which we want to talk about.

[Grant]

That just kind of hits because we've talked about that. And we had a similar thing in our relationship, which is when one of your partners, or there's a lot of people that are in relationships that when their partner just gets anxious and starts to spiral and shut down. I remember we were about to get engaged, and everything was like, this is so right. This is so good. And I just spiraled. And I had a summer where panic attacks and I didn't know who I was. And when you don't know who you are, you're taking it out on your closest person. And so I'd love to talk a little bit on that, because there are people going, what if my partner is going through this? What's my role? And am I their number one? Is it counseling? Is it God? Like, how did I love to talk about those. Those 14 in New York. How did y'all. Yeah, that fit through that?

[Gabe Lyons]

Well, I. I never experienced a panic attack. So when Rebecca started describing to me the things she was feeling, like, can't breathe and, you know, just in the middle of the night feeling like she's having a heart attack. I mean, she's describing things that were scary, and I'm. But. But once we started to understand what it was, you know, I didn't really know how to engage it because I couldn't feel it with her. All I could see is how it was impacting her. And so what I tried to do as best I could is be there with her through those moments, help her breathe. Just literally lay in bed and pray over her for calmness, for peace in her mind. And there wasn't as much information about. I mean, we've gotten a lot more information in the last 15 years about panic attacks and what's happening with the body, but we didn't know a lot of that.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And so it was a lot of just going to. What do we know? We know you're a child of God. We know you're loved. We know you're actually healthy. Like, nothing's physically wrong. So that led to, I think, both of us having a deeper conversation. Where is this coming from?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. You were very empathetic, and I think in every season. Right. Like whatever the ailment is, you know, for us, year 14 was just kind of this. Some form of a crash and burn mentally. And God did meet us there. In fact, the night that the Lord healed me in that kind of initial way of, like, bringing me out of it. You. You prayed for me. You were praying for me in the moment when I just. The Lord.

[Grant]

There was a night.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Specific night.

[Rebecca Lyons]

A specific night where, you know, I just woke up out of a dream. Full blown panic attack. And you started praying right then and then I couldn't speak initially, but finally the Lord gave me my voice and I just said, rescue me. Deliver me. I cannot do this without you. And that's when my body broke on the bed and it was done. And I didn't have another one for seven years. So it was. Now again, people hear that and they're like, well, why did. Why'd that happen to you? But I just think for me, in that moment, we were still gonna be in New York for about three more years, and mine was rooted in claustrophobia, so I was still gonna have to. We moved to a high rise and get on elevators every day. And I was still going to have to get on now planes every week to teach about this and go on subways underground, seven. Seven stories underground to go to the boroughs. And so I almost felt like the Lord's like, we're gonna have to give you a little respite here so that you'll save. But at the same point, it wasn't without kind of constant meditation on his word. Constant, you know, just prayer, obviously. But it was a shift. There was a tectonic shift that happened that night.

[Gabe Lyons]

I do think mental health is an important conversation in marriages because we're seeing that that's used a lot when people split up now. You know, my spouse has mental health issues, so we just. It's not going to work. She needs to go figure this out. You know, that. That kind of conversation has become very normal for people to have as a reason to say, we're not going to stay together. And I think we have to be really careful about that, because counseling today, there's a lot of people getting individual therapy where they're going to a counselor individually, and that counselor is telling them how to work on themselves and how to find themselves and. And self realize. And they get very fired up and realize, well, my spouse seems to be the one holding me back. They're the one that may be holding me down. And they start to get a narrative in their mind that the accuser, the enemy loves, which is. They're the problem, not you. Yeah. And I think we're going to have to be very careful about that, especially for Christian couples to go, hey, if you're going to get counseling, number one, it'd be ideal to have a marriage and family counselor, which is only roughly. About 15% of counselors are qualified to talk about marriage. You know, the rest are individual therapists. But because there's so few therapists, people are just trying to get help wherever they can, understandably. And so our advice that we give in the book and to couples that we're talking to is, if you're seeing someone, make sure you say to that therapist. If it's an individual therapist, I'm here to get healthier for my marriage. I am committed to my marriage. That's number one. I'm not trying to get healthy to leave my wife. So I don't want the conversation to be what she's doing wrong. I want it to be about how I can grow so I can love her better. And I think it's very important that each person says to one another, even before they go to that first session, like, hey, this is our commitment.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And allow that counselor to know this is, this is what we're pointing towards. Otherwise, we're seeing a lot of marriages dissipate quickly.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. After individual therapy from clinical therapy. Well, and it's partly because usually the marriage is on the rocks. So both people are kind of frustrated with one another, and they're going to both go do the work. Right. And. But they go to separate counselors sometimes. They're secular counselors. They don't really have a biblical view of marriage. So I do think, you know, you needed some of your own counseling. I needed some of my own. But one way to do that is to still have the same therapist. You just meet separately, and then you also meet together. So. So it's not like he said, she said to two different therapists. And we're really trying to compare notes, like, what's the real story? Right. Because there's always a third story. My version, your version, and what actually happened. So it's helpful to have. And then I think, obviously there's a lot of biblically based clinical counselors out there, and if you go in with that intention to be like, I, I, I've lost hope. I feel desperate. I want us to stay married. But, like, please help. You know, that way you can still be honest about what the needs are, but you're still doing this under this governance of, like, we, we want repair. We want repair.

[Grant]

It's really good.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And, and I was thinking about what you're saying about mental health, Right? Like, so we take the vows, right? In sickness and in health, as long as we both shall live. Right. And so if, if, if one of us got cancer, is that an excuse to leave? Why would mental illness be an excuse to leave? Right. If, if physical illness would not be an excuse to leave, why would mental struggle be an excuse to leave? I feel like there's. There's obviously a huge continuum of what we would call mental illness, and sometimes people vacillate. But the point is, are we committed in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for work, as long as we both shall live? And if we have made that covenant before God, then we better be willing to stand in the gap in those seasons where the, where the illness or the health is waning and at least try to get to the root of, like, how can we best learn and heal and grow together through that adversity?

[Grant]

Wow.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. Wow. I know. That just blessed a Lot of people. And we've, you know, had even friends in our lives that have, you know, come to us about really struggling in their marriage. And so one question I have is, you know, what would even be some practical tips that you would give struggling marriages right now?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Practical? Well, first I would just start by saying, I'm not leaving. Like, we. We've got a long road, and because honestly, the fear of one of the other to say, I'm gonna leave. Like, I. When I was at my worst with Gabe, I had this fantasy of an apartment in downtown Franklin that would be really cute, and, like, we wouldn't divorce, but I would just have a place to go when I felt a lot of shame.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And I know when I said that out loud to him that, like, that hurt him and hit him. But I also felt like if I don't say it out loud, I'm gonna nurse this thing and this is gonna grow, and it's gonna be some weird, dumb, delusional thing that I have. So. But by doing that and him going, well, I'm not leaving. And I'm like, well, then I am. But, but, but knowing his commitment to us, even when I felt like we were very disconnected, like him going, I'm not leaving, so we're gonna have to figure this out. It. It practically just by saying it, even when you don't always feel it and you don't always want it and you don't know how to fix it, but just go, I'm not leaving the room. Kurt Thompson always says that phrase, I'm not going to leave the room. Like, I will be here. And we will work through it, and we will take as long as it needs, and we will get all the help and support we need. But. But our commitment is to stay.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah, because. Yeah, because that's covenant. Right? I mean, we're not in contracts. A contract is you drawing up, you know, prenuptials that say, this is how we're gonna separate amicably in this. It almost sets an expectation that that might happen. Whereas covenant's like, no, this is it. This is for life. And I know that's easier said than done in. In the world today. It's hard for us to imagine it, but that commitment to say, I'm gonna stay all of a sudden creates a boundary of safety to work. The moment somebody thinks the other one is thinking about leaving, contemplating leaving has started to fantasize about moving. Defenses are going to go up quick, and you're going to have a really hard time finding a tender place to even do the work. Because now I don't know, can I really trust you? Or if things get hard again next.

[Grant]

Year, what are you thinking about?

[Gabe Lyons]

It's going to be the same routine. And so I think, you know, my advice to struggling couples is you have to talk about what you're walking through. And in our world today, that's not happening as much. We kind of go to our social media feeds, we get Instagram advice and TikTok advice, and we kind of hear the voices and the algorithm starts to tell us the things that sort of we like to hear. And so we're going to have to separate from that to say no. We're going to talk to one another. And that's one of the things we've really emphasized in the process with even this book, every chapter, there's something called Conversations for Couples. And it's designed to get people talking again because as Rebecca has said, if you're not talking, you're not healing.

[Grant]

It's really good.

[Gabe Lyons]

And so it's hard to talk sometimes. It's not always. Sometimes it feels like you're taking two steps backwards. I know for me as a guy, I'm like, I don't want to disrupt it. I'd like to have sex tonight. Like, I'm not.

[Rebecca Lyons]

What if we go left turn on our conversation?

[Gabe Lyons]

I'm not sure I really want to be honest about something that I'm carrying. Right. That's. That's really good. That's a big game time call.

[Grant]

Massive game time.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

You got to be a real man to go there.

[Gabe Lyons]

So maybe over breakfast we talk about.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. Early on with flowers, and then by. By evening she'll be okay.

[Grant]

So good.

[Gabe Lyons]

But learning how to. How your spouse operates. Like, the rhythm of conversation, even. And when is the right time to have these guys? It's not in the car. It's probably on the cell phone. Like when you're. I just said cell phone.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

I'm really old.

[Grant]

It's all good.

[Gabe Lyons]

I'm sorry, guys.

[Grant]

I just saw the razor and I saw you open it up. Is that a BlackBerry or the brick?

[Gabe Lyons]

I had one of the first ones. And.

[Grant]

You were smooth, too.

[Gabe Lyons]

Oh, he was.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And that's when he was trying to. You know.

[Gabe Lyons]

You know that she's pulled the antenna. It was.

[Grant]

It was.

[Gabe Lyons]

Was small.

[Rebecca Lyons]

You were the old. You were always walking around with that thing. He was like.

[Gabe Lyons]

He'S gonna be big time.

[Grant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

So anyway, I think transitions is where most of the fighting happens. Those quick. Like someone's home late we're going out for dinner. Those are not the times.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

To engage this, you gotta have some space and margin in the morning, at night, wherever. To have some of the more significant conversations where you may want to bring up. Yeah, this has been hurting me. And it's even better that way because then it's not in the heat of the moment. Sometimes we say the craziest things in the heat of the moment that we regret. And so if you can, like, calm it down and be like, then that's Takes maturity. It's not easy.

[Grant]

It does.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Another practical tip, and we've talked to our friend JP about this, but just this idea of like 15 minutes when you get home from work or if you've been away all day, just 15 minutes just to talk about, like, just unpack, whatever. Like, what. How are you feeling about today? What was your high or your low? And in a room without children, even if it's just a short window of time, because it is a way to reconnect and reset and feel heard and connected before you even do. The last few hours of the evening, while you're doing dinner and, you know, baths and bedtime and whatever you have.

[Gabe Lyons]

With littles or marriage goes on, it communicates to the kids. Like, my. My time with my wife or my husband is our most important time today.

[Grant]

That's so.

[Gabe Lyons]

So get used to the doors locked and we're going to talk. And that gives them security. That gives them an attachment that's pure to know they can trust. Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Mom and dad are talking for a few minutes and then we'll. Yeah. And. And it becomes something that you're not trying to squeeze in, like a meaningful conversation because you. I might even like, jot a couple notes of like, oh, I want to make sure I don't forget to tell him this. Like, maybe it's just something that really meant something to me.

[Grant]

A good thing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Like, I had a really meaningful conversation.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm like. I'm like, in the moment. I'm like, that's so good. I should tell.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Great.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And then by the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, I know he'll.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Ask me a question. And I'm like, I don't know. Let's just go to sleep.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Grant]

So it was like monumental for you.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And then I hear somebody else days later, and I'm like, gabe, why didn't you tell me? And then all of a sudden we're.

[Gabe Lyons]

Like, yeah, that's true. If you wait too long for the right time, you might not talk About John Maxwell, who was kind of. He was the first person who hired me out of college, so I spent five years with him.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Such a flex.

[Grant]

Yeah. Just legendary moment.

[Gabe Lyons]

I didn't know that was a total.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Such a love. John Max.

[Grant]

He's like the guy.

[Rebecca Lyons]

But that's when I was home, you know, with Littles, and he's out with John. He's like VP of John's.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yes. But anyway, he's an amazing leader and so disciplined in everything he did. And I think one of the things he did for his wife that I learned from him is he would carry around a little index card all day long with a pen, and he would literally note, I met this person. I want to tell Margaret about it.

[Rebecca Lyons]

That's.

[Gabe Lyons]

So I did this thing. Or I had this experience. He was also very committed to saying, hey, I want to experience as many things as I can with my wife. Instead of like, wow, Rebecca goes to some event and experiences something or learns something, and I'm not there. Now. It creates a little bit of division.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

So early on, we've tried to always be in as many spaces as we can together, grow together, to share experiences, to share. Meeting a bunch of new friends together, new couples, because then there's less room for division, for growth together.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Right. Like, it's one thing if. If Gabe did a mastermind for the next 10 years and I had knew nothing about it, then all of a sudden, we're not peers in our ability to communicate what we're learning and growing it. So I. I would definitely find ways to grow together.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And do. And again, with kids, it's hard, you know, like, we're not going to go on every trip together. We can't. But we're going to make sure that we. The most important ones. We are.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

The most pivotal life podcast we're listening.

[Gabe Lyons]

To or a book that we read, even if each of us can't read it, we're going to take the time to try to share what we got from it or at least text that. You know, I send Rebecca an article I read that I'm like, this is. This has meant a lot to me and can't get through all of them. But. But. But we try at least to keep growing together. Here's what I'm learning.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Like, road trips for us are all about. Like, here. Here's the podcast I want you to hear. And here's the podcast I want you to hear. Or, yeah. Or like, let's talk. Like, what book on are we going to listen to together? So I just think it helps you later in life because what happens is when the kids are young, you build your life around their interests, but then they leave. And if you don't cultivate your interests together as a couple, beyond launching kids, then you'll look at each other once they've left home and you're like, I don't know what we have, what do we do? Yeah, yeah. And so I would always make that a priority, even if it does mean, you know, you have to divide and conquer on how you do it all. Because you co parent and you're also co vocational missional people. But that's it. That's kind of the point. You are partners in all inside the home and outside the home. And so you guys find a way.

[Gabe Lyons]

To such a great. Yeah, exact. I mean, we didn't start doing anything. I mean, we did LED retreats and things, but we started the podcast together seven years ago again.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And that was significant because it meant everything.

[Rebecca Lyons]

You're 21. When I was like, I can't do.

[Grant]

All we've said is seven.

[Rebecca Lyons]

So yeah, I can't do this. So let's.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

They're on a podcast.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, actually this is what happened. Speak it publicly is when he saw my eyes and crazy eyes and like, I don't like you. I want a little cute apartment somewhere else Again, out of context, like the Lord, I never wanted to like, yeah, divorce was not on the table. But the. But shame makes us hide. Let's just be honest. And in a, even a Christian, godly, God fearing marriage, there the shame that will creep in for either of us when we turn, like we feel unworthy of something and we, you know, and it always surfaces in conflict. So like, he might divert his eyes, but I just like want to leave the room. Like we hide either internally or physically. We just want to run from that conflict because we don't like what it's doing inside of us, what we're feeling, that inadequacy or unworthiness. And so that'll play out in a bunch of different ways. But when that happened for US at year 21, we went back to our college friends who stood with us in our wedding and we cried on their porch. And they're like, you guys are doing this. It was our careers that were kind of pulling us this way. And then we're together, we're always fighting. They're like, you need to find a way to do this and find that concentric circle between what I do and what he does that, you know, keeps us something that's for us. And so we were driving back that. That same week to start the Rhythms podcast. And he was just going to interview me for the first episode because it was going with the book Rhythms for Life. And we on that. On that drive, just said, let's just be co hosts for this, and let's let this be something that we are. We were like, it's going to go terrible. We're going to trip over each other. Because we both have different styles of communication. And the first version was not that great. But then we had to rerecord that. We prayed about. We did it again.

[Grant]

That's so real.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And here we are seven years later.

[Grant]

Wow. That's amazing.

[Rebecca Lyons]

So, yeah, I. It's just like finding that little middle space that. Because now we do love empty nesting. We've been empty nesting with our two kiddos, our down syndrome bookends. Right. Our oldest and then our youngest that we adopted with down syndrome. Like, this is empty nesting. But we are loving this season because we're still growing together, we're still learning together, and we're. We're still.

[Gabe Lyons]

And they still go to school for seven hours.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

So we just had to change our date nights to, like, date lunches.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

We just.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We just have been do Sabbath.

[Gabe Lyons]

Had to be very careful to guard the time.

[Grant]

That's awesome.

[Gabe Lyons]

Make sure we're growing and having space for each other.

[Grant]

Okay. Let's get practical with the book. The fight for us. We were talking beforehand, and we were like, we're only two and a half years in, but what a good title. Because it's a fight. It's a fight. And we already feel two and a half years in with a newborn. This, like, passivity. And just, like, if you don't do anything for your marriage, you're slowly roommating roommates. And we have felt that the past nine weeks. A little bit. We went. We haven't gone on a date yet because we've had date, like, in the house. And so. But y'all, 28 years, like, especially in ministry with your own careers, you don't. You don't stay together without intentional rhythms. So the fight for us, we. We just want y'all to unpack. Like, what are some rhythms that you have implemented in your life that took you from a passive marriage to. This is intentional. This is going somewhere because we put this in place. What are those top three to five that we could start to implement? And maybe even someone who's single could start to think, okay, I'm gonna lock in on that. So that when I get in marriage, we're not just this. We're like. We're going somewhere together. What are those guardrails that have kept.

[Gabe Lyons]

I'll give two.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And then you go, yeah, I like you.

[Gabe Lyons]

Starting first is we. We. We try to every year, if not more than that, take inventory of life. Like, what's going right, what's wrong, what's missing and what's confused for us. And it's almost like a SWOT analysis on your marriage. And it gives you this chance to evaluate. Hey, let's celebrate this. There's been some amazing things this year. Here's some things have been wrong. We need to fix those. But here's some things that are confused and missing. And that's just created an annual conversation that's been great for us to just. At a big picture level. We're married. We want to be married forever. What's this year going to look like?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

And how can we make it better? The second thing has been a commitment to time together alone. Every year on a trip away from our house. Okay. Babysitter needed children. As long as the babysitter some years was breathing, we were okay. Leaving our children. And. And I'm sorry, but this is priority. You need to get away. You need to have great sex.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I. Without your sweet little girl. Like, it's been nine weeks.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, I know.

[Rebecca Lyons]

We will babysit.

[Grant]

No, we know.

[Rebecca Lyons]

You seen how cute she is?

[Gabe Lyons]

Have you seen all Grant?

[Grant]

Yeah, well, he's still got it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He's handsome over there, but.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, it is hard. It is hard, but the longer you go, the harder it will be now.

[Gabe Lyons]

And the date nights is another part of it. I mean, everybody kind of knows we need to have date night. But that intentional time, you know, every week, we're. We're doing that now. Every week. But we didn't always. There were no. Sometimes it was like once a month where we had a nice dinner.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

But quality time together was always a priority. But this trip, I just want to emphasize it, you don't have to have a ton of money to do it. We've had years where we could barely just go to downtown Nashville for a night at a hotel. And that was our getaway for the year. Okay. But the point was there was always something we always looked forward to, like, we're going to have time together away from the kids, to be reminded of this love affair, this story that started on a couch our freshman year. We were attracted to each other. We love each other. And actually the stress kind of goes away on those trips and you're reminded of who you are. You're reminded of why you love this person, of what God's doing in your life before you re enter into all the to do's and the stress and the task and, and all of that. So that's, that's my topic.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. And I would say the reason why you need a couple nights is it, it takes the first 24 hours to decompress. And then all of a sudden you're like, we can have an uninterrupted conversation. Like, you will be shocked how rare that is as you keep adding to your family to just. And I just remember, like, I don't know, maybe it was around year 14, like, because we were still in New York City, but we went to Cabo for three days and we were like, we've had so many deep conversations. Because partly that's what drew you, right? Like, like on a soul level, you could just talk for hours. Remember those FaceTimes? You could talk for hours and you're just like, now you're like, I don't even know what we're talking about. But. But it's still in there. It's still in you. But you have to pull away all the noise and the distraction and the chaos to be reminded. Like, what we had that cemented that from the beginning is still there. It takes some tending, though. You have to cultivate it. You have to make room for it. It won't just happen automatically, swimming upstream with all everything else that's competing.

[Gabe Lyons]

And, and Grant, this is some advice for you about your wife that I've learned over many, many years. But Dr. Morgan Cutlip talks about this. She's a psychologist that talks a lot about sex and mental loads. But women carry this load mentally that we do not carry. And that's hard for us to get our head around. But it's a load that's not only all the task that they're trying to manage and figure out how to do, but it's an emotional load about how's everybody doing relationally and especially with the child. You know, like Maddie, she's up at three in the morning thinking about getting a food. Is this working? Right?

[Rebecca Lyons]

But like, is she smiling? Is she happy? Does she feel connected? Does she art conflict? Is there? Like.

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah, yeah, so. So women.

[Grant]

Let me know about some of those. She feels you.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Great.

[Grant]

She feels you.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. Wait till there's four of those kids, right? And then obviously, like, which load are we talking about tonight?

[Gabe Lyons]

So guys design this like Friction that will happen because you and I aren't feeling that.

[Grant]

Right?

[Gabe Lyons]

We're, like, compartmentalized. Like, she's good. She was fed. She's taking a nap. You know, can we have sex now? Okay. And like our wives. Sorry. I think it's important to talk about, for men at least. Like, we don't always understand how this is functioning. And I think the more I've learned that, like, Rebecca needs space. She needs to feel like the home's in order, needs to feel like, you know, things are peaceful, needs to have unloaded, maybe some of those things, and know that I'm carrying it with her, not just solving it, but I can listen and carry some of that burden so she's not alone. And then a freedom starts to emerge, right. That. That allows for you to enjoy great conversation, great sex, and all that comes with that, right?

[Rebecca Lyons]

Well, the scripture bear one another's burdens and love. Is that right? So if she's feeling a lot of that. I think the Lord didn't design for men and women to feel the same things. That's a good thing, right? Like, if you had the same mental load I had emotionally, like, we'd just.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Be crying all day, basket cases together.

[Rebecca Lyons]

You're like, get it together. But the good thing, though, is that I can now more freely really talk to you and process. And it doesn't have to take hours, Right? Like, that's why the 15 minutes matter. If I could just share, like, oh, today was hard in this area. Then I'm not. It's not slowly growing into this mountain of mental load where I just feel so buried. And by Saturday, I'm like, I don't want to do anything, you know? So part of it is feel the freedom to consistently just share that. And then when you hear it, you're not trying to fix it. I would always tell a man, ask your wife, are you asking for. Looking for a listening ear or advice? And I've never heard a woman say advice. I've always heard, I just. I just need to sit with you in me. I like, I don't need a solution.

[Grant]

I've never heard a woman say advice.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, I don't tell me what I need to do because I already know.

[Rebecca Lyons]

What I need to do.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I just listen.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I just want you to hear me for a minute. Sit in the hole with me. Yeah, because you just want to fix.

[Grant]

When the baby's crying, it's like, you gotta fix something.

[Rebecca Lyons]

It's hard something.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Can't fix her. Slow fix.

[Grant]

Pin something to the wall. Just.

[Rebecca Lyons]

But then when that's shared, and even just the practice of saying it, like it's the rhythm of confession, the minute we get to say something out loud, all of a sudden it, like, diffuses kind of the. The balloon in our brain. And all of a sudden I'm like, I do feel lighter. I mean, you didn't fix anything. I just feel like you're sharing it with me. I feel less alone in the load. And it's the loneliness, I think, for women that makes them retreat, not just emotionally, but physically, because I feel alone over here, and all the things I carry that you don't seem to care about. And then now you want us to be intimate sexually, and I'm, like, not feeling at all intimate emotionally. And. And again, like, we're not. Why would we make sure that we're tending to a physical vulnerability for a man if he's not tending to an emotional vulnerability for a woman? Like, that's the mutuality that we have to bring into marriage and each take responsibility for.

[Grant]

Yeah. And that's a. That takes so much work.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It does.

[Grant]

Because for us, it's like, like, the physical will. Will fix the emotional. And you're like, no, we're not going there until the emotional's fixed. And it's a. It's a battle.

[Rebecca Lyons]

This is what. Well, that's funny because your version is the physical will fix the emotional.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

And her version is the emotional will fix the physical. So talk about your second things, because you have said this a couple times.

[Gabe Lyons]

Well, I love the C.S. lewis little essay he, he. He wrote called first and Second Things. And it's about properly ordering first things, and you'll get the second things. But if you put the second things first, you'll often not get the second thing or the first thing. And. And applied to sex for men, it's just understanding this. This concept that, like, the first thing can't be sex. And that. That's what I thought. Marriage. I was like, we're getting married. We're going to be just having a lot of sex. Like, this is. This is one of the great benefits. We grew up in a Christian home, you know, hearing, like, that's one of the big points of marriage. Well, little did I know. Well, my wife didn't grow a. Just can't wait to have sex all the time when we're married. And. And when you make that a first thing, it becomes transactional. And, you know, all of a sudden, as a man, you could find yourself trying to just do things so she'll Be happy enough so we can have sex. Like, that's the payoff and what a shallow way to live in a relationship. And so I think what I've discovered is the first things have to be the connection. It has to be cherishing her. It has to be her ability to feel like she can lean on me. Me, and. And when that takes place and there's emotional connection, the sexual connection will take place.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

I do think it's true for men, though, sometimes it's hard for us to connect emotionally without sex. So if you're like, you know, you're having a sexless marriage and you haven't had sex in a month, and you're wondering why my husband just needs to connect me emotionally and then we'll have sex, I would say maybe you have to rethink the order of that at some point.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, yeah, you do need to talk about it.

[Gabe Lyons]

For startups, you need to talk about it. And these are real needs, you know, that. That men and women have and maybe experience a little differently. We know men think about sex double the times women do throughout a day, you know, so. So there's just natural wiring there. It's not true. Women. Some women do think about sex more than their husbands. So it's not always true, but probably 80% of the time, that's the way it is.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

So just being able to talk about.

[Grant]

That, it's really good.

[Gabe Lyons]

Have a healthy conversation about it.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. I would say some other practical things in the book. So the last section. So it's first about defining the fight, how, how we fight, why we fight and what we fight about. And then from fighting a feeling and truly getting honest with our emotions and our vulnerabilities and going from the attack to just, like, putting those ego defenses down and just go, I just. I want to be seen, known, and loved. And I want to. I want to create that space for you to feel safe to do that with me, and I want to be safe to do that with you. And that requires usually going back to origin story. We have a whole chapter just on origin story. And then also, like, how is our attachment style insecure or avoidant, and how does that result in our dysfunctional dance and the way that we fight? But then finally the last one is the more practical one. From fighting to feeling or from feeling to healing. And so we tackle the six big topics that marriages fight about, which is sex, money, parenting, career, health, and community. And just each one kind of puts you on a continuum. So for sex, for example, it's like one to ten transaction to embrace grace or money might be from scarcity to abundance. So these kind of ideas that go like everyone can kind of self evaluate, you know, I parenting control versus freedom. You know, like he might fall more on an 8 to 10 on freedom and I might be more like a 3 to 5 control with parenting. See, the things we don't come into marriage with, like a clean slate. We all bring our perceptions of what we were raised in and what we value and how we see it based on our are just experiences. And so there will be tension on all these topics because your view of it and her view is different and it's not always right or wrong. It's just different. And so partly figuring out the distinction between like a moral issue or just preference, because sometimes we fight forever about preference because we really think our way is the way. And just unpacking that, I think practically is just getting to the root of those things. And we really, really pulled and tried to figure out, like, what do people fight about so much? And often it is. It. It pares down to those six areas and how do we. How do we find one another?

[Gabe Lyons]

And we tell stories. You know, Rebecca's always been a bit of a oversharer. She would say, yeah, you know, in books and all of that, I'm the last read. And I'm like, can we. Do you really have to tell us.

[Rebecca Lyons]

He has veto power?

[Gabe Lyons]

You know, the last Exposing Gay. We did decide. We decided. We decided in this book that we really weren't going to hold anything back because marriage is too important for us to try to play. Like we've got it all figured out. We always have. We're this great, successful couple. It's like, no, like we're 28 years into a fight that will continue another, hopefully 28 years of fighting for this marriage. And that means there's been some hard days and some embarrassing things. Some things I thought and felt that I'm ashamed of that we need to talk about. And we need husbands and wives to feel comfortable being honest about it and not thinking. They have to put up some surface view to everybody else. And then it's too late. And they've let no one in. They've not invited other couples in or mentors or people who've gone a little bit further than them to have the conversation. And that's our hope, is that this will create new conversations for couples that will lead to healing.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So good. I love that it's called the Fight for Us because I think so often it's we view as, like, the fight between us. There's lots of room for conflict and fight fights, and marriage is hard and marriage is so good. And when a marriage is built on the rock of Jesus Christ, you know, it's not necessarily that you're always going to be happy, but there's an eternal purpose to it, and it's so much bigger than you. And I'd love to just, I think, wrap up with really just talking about, like, the eternal purpose of marriage. Yeah, whatever you. You want to share on that, but just what you've learned being married 28 years and not getting caught up in the things like now looking back, it's like, oh, we used to get caught up in these little things that don't really matter, but now, 28 years in, we see bird's eye view, like, you know, looking at this little couple who, who at first, you know, like, this is my way and this is what I want, and this is my preference. And, and here's how. And it's like, now, I'm sure you've learned so much not being perfect, but you've learned so much over the years and have so much more of an eternal lens. And I'd love to just kind of.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like in this podcast and talking about how can we invite God and the Holy Spirit into our marriage and build it on that foundation and keep such an eternal perspective.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, that reminds me of 2 Corinthians 4, 16, where he says, so we don't focus on what is seen, but what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. And I think in marriage, we can get so caught up with, like, the minutia right in front of us. But the lasting thing, I think, that has been the most transformative for us, us, is to look at God's blessing through generational lines. Right. Like from the. The covenant with Abraham, I'll make you a father of many nations. And. And the promise was, yes, it was territory, but it was generational lines. Who would love and fear God? And as we see in the old covenant, you've got, like, the rise and the fall of what that looked like. Wicked, righteous, wicked, righteous. Generational lines just kept coming. But here we are sitting in this era and we look at our lines of family up behind us and those who, Lord willing, are going to go or go before us and those who, Lord willing, who go behind us. And I have felt the conviction, like, the older we got in our marriage, it would always be the Holy Spirit that would prompt to go like, okay, you gotta look back to go forward. You've. You've just gotta go, like, are there unresolved. Is there unforgiveness even? Like, with my parents, from me to my parents or my, you know, them to their parents or you to your parents, like, that we're not even aware of? Like, are there. Are there any harbors, resentments, or, I don't know, just things that we hold on to. And so just asking for the grace to, like, forgive and bless those who've gone before us who gave the best they could. They. Everyone gives the best they can with what they've been given. And sometimes that's. For some families, it's really destructive. So I'm not making a blanket statement, but the point is that when we can forgive and become whole and healed as sons and daughters of God, then we can mature into spiritual mothers and fathers. Fathers and. But we have to be healed as children before we become parents. And so when we do that, and now look forward, I found that we started to unite, okay, God, give us a vision of our kids 10 years from now, 20 years from now. Like, what. What will flourishing look like? Will they be children who fear God and marry people who fear God and then create offspring? If that's your will that love and fear God, That. That to me is like, man. If. If that's. If we can be even be ones in our kind of line that just says, hey, like, whatever. Whatever was not needed to be passed down. We just want to be like, break that and then walk in a new level of freedom and pass that. And granted, our kids are going to have stuff they're going to need counseling for because we're not perfect. But the point is, if we keep at the forefront a generational line that comes out of this union that loves and fears the Lord. Lord. And that can only be done through our brokenness and our repentance and our forgiveness and our redemption. So that's our hope.

[Gabe Lyons]

And I would say two things. One's kind of macro level. Like, I'm just motivated as a man to understand that the enemy is literally trying to pick us off. And I've seen it happen with friends. It's been so difficult to watch the subtle ways that the enemy comes after marriages. Like, this is his, I believe, number one place of attack back. He knows if he can disrupt that sacrament before God, it does ruin generations. And so. So there's a motivation there of, like, man, protect, do the work. So I'm. I'm motivated at that level, but I think what's been the most convicting has been. I remember Dr. Emerson Eggerich, who spent some time with us as we were walking through a season where we needed some counsel. He wrote the book Love and Respect. And he. He pulled out the bio, he handed me the Bible, and he said, Gabe, read first Peter 3, 7, heaven. And so I've read it out loud, and I'm sure I'd read it before, but in this particular moment, you know, I was reading these words that basically said, to cherish your wife, otherwise your prayers will be hindered. And it just hit me. It was like, this is the only verse in Scripture that says to a husband, if you don't cherish your wife, I don't care what she's bringing to the table. I don't care if it's drama, if you think she's crazy, I don't care. Like I'm saying to you as my son and disciple, people, cherish your wife. Otherwise, your prayers, you've been praying at night, you've been getting up early, been praying, praying, praying. They hit a ceiling. They literally are hindered. They do not go to the place you're hoping that they go. Because what I'm watching is, how are you treating the person I've given you? And if you treat her with love and care, and you. You cherish her heart, the things she loves, desires, make life easy for her if you can, and that's going to take some unselfishness, then your prayers will maybe land and I'll hear them. And the things you've been praying and desiring, you might see come to fruition. And that was, for me, the most convicting moment in our marriage. That changed a lot because I realized this isn't about her changing to the things I want. It's none of that. This is about me and God, and this marriage is represented through that lens, and he'll hold me responsible for that.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah. And one version of that translation is, live with your wife in an understanding way. And I found you starting to seek to understand me. Like, not assuming, not condemning, not, you know, character assassination, but more going, like, tell me more, like, help me understand. Like, sometimes men have a little bit of a hard time asking questions because it feels like a vulnerability or something. Like, they're supposed to have the solutions and the way to fix things, but the curiosity and the understanding of, like. Then all of a sudden, not only did you ask me questions and seek to understand you, you naturally started to have empathy. Because then I was able to share a little deeper of going, well, I think I fear this. And maybe that's connected to this. And you're like, oh, that makes sense, you know, and then all of a sudden you're like almost pulling. You're almost like God is using you as a healing agent to help bring some things that I carry to the surface so that you can again bear those burdens with me. So there's a beauty, there's a beauty in living in an understanding way. And we are called to do that, that even with our children, like just to draw them out, draw their hearts out, nurture those things. And I think it is. It starts with the leadership, with the husband.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

So totally.

[Grant]

That was one of our questions. Like the man God has called you to lead. And it's such an anti cultural. Like they think it's just. And. But we see, what we see in the Bible is like, you're called to lead. And I never forget one day she looked at me and she goes, great grant. When you and God are good, you and me are good. And when you are not prioritizing him, you and I are not good. And that was really powerful to me where I was like, I'm trying to fix you, but like I'm praying. And it just was like, when I prioritize that, that's the overflow that I get to lead her in. And it just seems like a theme of Yalls marriage was like moments where she was vulnerable in front of you and you saw her and you had a crossroads to go, am I going to lead or not? And it's cool for a lot of girls that watch this podcast, like, Gabe's a good looking guy. He's got a lot going for him. He's got everything the world would say you should look for in a spouse. But I'm sure what you would say is in the hardest 14, 21 years of marriage, that stuff did not matter. It was who he was alone with, God that saved and that fought for what y'all have.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Grant]

Would you say that? Because I think people would go, hey, their spiritual maturity is probably fifth on my list. I think a lot of people would say that it's looks, it's money. And it seems like that stuff probably doesn't carry you through 28 years of marriage.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Right? Yeah, it's the conviction, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, quite frankly. And you always have been a man of conviction and faith, and I've known that from the beginning. But to watch you do that, who in some valleys, like just the conviction carries you because you know, it's from the Spirit himself. And that the Holy Spirit is what, again, back to second Corinthians 4. It's, like, gives you the power to endure and emerge. Right? Like, gives you the Holy Spirit power. Therefore, we do not give up.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I mean, that whole chapter is all about why we don't give up. Because we have the spirit of God. God. These fragile clay jars cracked, but we have his light, and we carry his light. And I think we are, like, that's us in any marriage. Right? Like, we're broken vessels, but the cracks have allowed the light to shine through. And thank you for being a man of conviction.

[Grant]

It's beautiful.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So beautiful.

[Grant]

That's beautiful.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm gonna cry over here. I'm. My hormones are going crazy right now. I can't. I'm not.

[Grant]

Something's going on in me, too, man. I don't know what it is.

[Rebecca Lyons]

This room.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I think it's the Holy Spirit. No. I am so grateful for you guys and your marriage and just what you've modeled for a generation, what you've modeled for us. And grateful for this book that I know is going to bless a lot of people. Grant. I had the. The privilege of getting to read it early and. And get to endorse it, and here I am endorsing it again, saying, you guys need to go read it. Truly Such a beautiful book of.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Of.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Again, not saying, here we are, this perfect married couple, but here are the things we've struggled with and ways we've. Things we've learned and how the Holy Spirit has carried us. And so I. I love that we brought it back to that at the end, too, of just the importance of the man leading spiritually, because I. I do. I. What I told him that day is so true. I'm like, when you are on your knees in the morning and you're surrendered and being led by the Holy Spirit, then from there, are you able to lead our family?

[Gabe Lyons]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

When you're led by him, you can lead us. And I. I've seen that in our marriage. And I, too, am so grateful. And I say on this podcast all the time, that's why I'm like, do not settle. Do not settle. Do not compromise. Marriage is. I mean, if you do in it, right, if you do in a God's way, like, it's. It's for your whole life on Earth. And so, you know, choose wisely and choose well, and there is always hope. And so if you're in a marriage that has been struggling and maybe you're asking the question, like, did I make a mistake? Or, you know, did I not hear from God? Like, it's really, really hard right now. Now, there is always hope, and God has rescued me from the pit of darkness in my own personal life, apart from anything regarding marriage. And so anything you're going through in life, in marriage, not in marriage, he can rescue you, and he wants to. And that's just how good he is. And so there's nothing too hard for him. There's nothing impossible for him. There's no. No one. And nothing that's too far gone. And so if you feel like, oh, my marriage is too far gone, that's a lie from the enemy. Enemy. And we talked a little bit about that very briefly, that the enemy wants to divide and steal, kill and destroy your marriage. And I love that this book is talking all about how to overcome the things that divide, the things that steal from you, and how to step into a thriving marriage. And so you guys go and check out their new book, and I'll also include their handles, and so you can check out all their ministries and what they do, because they do amazing things, and they've been such a blessing to us. So thank you guys so much for coming on Stay True podcast. We got to make that. I'm like, I feel like I was just hanging out with friends. I'm like, let's just keep going. But no, we. We've been blessed by you guys and love you a lot and super grateful. So thank y'all, and love you guys, too. Yeah, love you.

[Gabe Lyons]

And we're proud of you.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yeah.

[Gabe Lyons]

Excited to watch this next season emerge. Right? We gotta come back.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Round two of, like I told when.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Y'All are at 28 years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, I need a whole podcast on marriage with a newborn and marriage with starting out as parents, because that's a whole, whole thing.

[Grant]

And I want. I want to say this. When we first moved to Tennessee, I find a new community in all this, and Gabe invited me to a Bible study that set the tone for Tennessee feeling like home for us. And, Rebecca, I know you mean so much to Maddie, and y'all have been just like a refuge for us. And we look at y'all, and we respect y'all so deeply because y'all have every opportunity to not make this about Jesus. And you do. And we see a lot of what we want to be when we grow up, grow up, you know, get older, and you guys. And so thanks for setting the tone and the bar. I know it's not easy.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

They're doing it right, you guys. I mean, they're traveling all over the world, but then they also have, like, the most beautiful home with like, chickens and chickens.

[Grant]

And Gabe's slaughtering these chickens.

[Gabe Lyons]

Oh, it's great.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I actually made you sourdough to bring today. And then I. I had a sticker on the fridge. It's like sourdough for Maddie. And then she brought a sour into it last night. Gabe, was it you? Because one of our go unnamed and I was like, she woke up and.

[Gabe Lyons]

There was a big chunk, but. But you have sourdough coming.

[Rebecca Lyons]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Listen, Rebecca made a sourdough one time, and I'm not kidding when I tell you we ate the whole thing in one day.

[Grant]

In a day.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I will say that without shame.

[Gabe Lyons]

It was so good. Well, you were nine months pregnant.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That is also.

[Gabe Lyons]

You're eating.

[Rebecca Lyons]

I ate the whole.

[Grant]

Amazing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, my. Guys, this was so fun. Be sure to tell us what how this episode has impacted you. And if you want to know Jesus, if your marriage is struggling, you need prayer, whatever it is that you're feeling or going through dms, let us know how we can be praying for you. And be sure to go and. And check them out. So as Fight for us. Fight for us.

[Grant]

The fight for us.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Y. I'll link it too, so you don't have to like, remember it all. Link it. But as always, guys, be sure to stay you stay true. We love.