How to Break Free from People-Pleasing

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Break Free from People-Pleasing"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
• Host: Madison Prewett Troutt
• Guest: Alex Seeley, Co-Pastor at Belonging Co and Author of Tailor Made and The Opposite Life
• Episode Release Date: December 2, 2024

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Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt, host Madison is joined by Alex Seeley, a seasoned pastor and author. The conversation delves deep into the pervasive issue of people-pleasing, exploring its roots, dangers, and the biblical framework for overcoming it.

Guest Background

Alex Seeley shares her inspiring journey from Australia to Nashville, detailing how her faith led her and her husband to establish Belonging Co, a thriving church community that began humbly in their basement and grew exponentially over twelve years. Alex emphasizes the importance of a strong relationship with God as the foundation for effective ministry and personal fulfillment.

Main Topic: Breaking Free from People-Pleasing

Madison and Alex tackle the struggle between pleasing God versus pleasing people, a tension that many face in today's society. They discuss how people-pleasing is often rooted in a desire for validation and acceptance, which can ultimately hinder one's spiritual growth and authentic relationship with God.

Biblical Insights: Saul vs. David

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the biblical narratives of Saul and David.

• Saul is portrayed as a leader who, despite his initial rise, succumbed to insecurity and fear of man, leading to his downfall. Madison highlights Saul's inability to establish a deep relationship with God, which made him susceptible to jealousy and poor decision-making.

  "[Saul] got thrust into a place of power without developing his relationship with God, relying on everything else instead."
  [11:52] — Alex Seeley

• David, on the other hand, exemplifies a leader who maintained a steadfast relationship with God, allowing him to overcome significant challenges, such as defeating Goliath with confidence rooted in his faith.

  "David knew who his Father was, so he obeyed God in everything he did."
  [19:56] — Alex Seeley

Madison underscores the lesson that knowing one's identity in Christ is crucial for resisting the allure of people-pleasing and fulfilling God's purpose.

The Importance of the Private Life ("Secret Place")

The "secret place"—a term referring to private moments of prayer and reflection with God—is highlighted as essential for cultivating a genuine and resilient faith.

Alex shares her personal practice of loving Jesus deeply, which transforms her devotional time from an obligation into a cherished desire.

"I just want to know Him. If this is His book and His Holy Spirit, I want to know everything about Him."
[28:57] — Alex Seeley

Madison echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the need to prioritize private spiritual growth over seeking external validation.

Why People Pleasing is Prevalent Today

Alex attributes the rise of people-pleasing to broken families and a lack of early validation. The constant search for approval from fluctuating external sources—such as social media, peers, and leaders—leads individuals to seek fulfillment outside their relationship with God.

"There's a deficit in knowing who loves us first. Families are broken. Families are dysfunctional."
[34:23] — Alex Seeley

Madison adds that modern society's emphasis on instant gratification exacerbates the tendency to prioritize others' opinions over one's own identity in Christ.

Practical Steps to Overcome People Pleasing

Both Madison and Alex offer practical advice for breaking free from the chains of people-pleasing:

1. Inner Healing and Heart Audit:
   Alex encourages listeners to search their hearts and identify the root causes of their need for approval.

   "Search your heart. Ask the Holy Spirit to do a heart audit in your heart."
   [56:51] — Alex Seeley

2. Developing a Relationship with God:
   Prioritize intimacy with God over seeking approval from others. This foundational relationship fortifies one's identity and reduces the reliance on external validation.

3. Embracing Process Over Instant Gratification:
   Both speakers stress the importance of patience and process in spiritual growth, warning against the allure of overnight success without a solid foundation.

4. Setting Boundaries and Seeking Godly Counsel:
   Avoid becoming a lone ranger by seeking guidance from experienced mentors and establishing healthy boundaries to maintain one's spiritual integrity.

The Danger of Embracing People-Pleasing as Identity

Madison warns against the common trend of labeling oneself as a "people pleaser". She explains that this mindset can lead to a perpetual state of trying to appease everyone, which undermines one's conviction and spiritual stability.

"People pleasing is extremely dangerous because it's a moving target. It will never bring a life of conviction and makes you double-minded."
[62:36] — Alex Seeley

Alex reinforces that living for approval is incompatible with a life of faith, as it can divert one's purpose from serving God to merely fitting in with societal expectations.

Conclusion and Prayer

The episode wraps up with a heartfelt prayer, where Alex prays for listeners who struggle with their identity and seek to break free from people-pleasing. The prayer emphasizes God's love and purpose for each individual, encouraging listeners to find their identity in Christ and live out their divine calling with confidence and freedom.

"God, I pray that they would find you. And because of that, they would be strong in their understanding of who they are so that they can do all that you've purposed them to do without fear of man."
[72:07] — Alex Seeley

Madison expresses her gratitude to Alex, highlighting the transformative power of speaking truthfully and living authentically in one's faith journey.

Key Takeaways

• Identity in Christ is Paramount: Understanding who you are in God establishes a solid foundation that resists the need for external validation.

• Private Spiritual Practices Foster Growth: Regular time in the "secret place" deepens your relationship with God, making you less susceptible to people-pleasing.

• Biblical Examples Offer Guidance: The contrast between Saul and David illustrates the importance of faithfulness and relationship over mere position or power.

• Process Over Instant Success: Embracing a journey of growth and patience prevents the pitfalls of seeking quick validation and success.

• Avoid Labeling Negative Traits as Identity: Recognizing people-pleasing as a challenge to overcome rather than an inherent personality trait fosters personal and spiritual development.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Everyone gets a starting line, and we all get the same starting line: salvation. But how we finish our race is up to us, and it's not up to God."
  [15:44] — Alex Seeley

• "Love drives you to be everything that you are. Love God. That's why He said the two greatest commandments are to love God and love people."
  [28:57] — Alex Seeley

• "Truth sets people free, not agreement."
  [65:17] — Alex Seeley

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For those inspired by this episode, Alex Seeley's books and Instagram details are available in the show notes. Dive deeper into her teachings and resources to further your journey in breaking free from people-pleasing and embracing your true identity in Christ.

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Stay True, Stay Free. 🌟

Transcript

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and I am here with a very, very special guest, Alex Seeley on the Stay True podcast. And for those of you who don't know Alex, she is a co pastor with her husband at Belonging Co and she has also written two books, Tailor Made and the Opposite. Yes, the Opposite Life. And she is a mama. But I actually found Alex. Or, well, I met you before, but I officially got to spend time with you at Sadie's conference. But you're a phenomenal communicator and you have inspired so many people. You've inspired me. I told you, after I listened to your message, I was like, that was a really profound message and I'm so excited to actually talk about it on today's episode. But thank you for coming on the podcast.

[Alex Seeley]

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And she has the coolest accent ever.

[Alex Seeley]

Australian.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Australian. Okay. And you live in Nashville now.

[Alex Seeley]

That's right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And you have Belonging Co is here in Nashville. And how long have you been in Nashville?

[Alex Seeley]

We've lived here 12 years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

12 years.

[Alex Seeley]

So church has been going for 10.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

For 10. Okay. Wow, that's amazing. I'd love to hear just like a little bit of your story before we dive into kind of the topic for today and what brought you here and how you guys started Belonging Co and what that journey.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah, well, obviously we were from Australia, had two little kids, had four, four year old and eight year old. And the Lord was like, I just, I feel like you need to go to America. And we were like, no. And so we talked to our pastors at the time and they were like, well, if this is really the Lord, why don't you enter the green card lottery and see if you get citizenship. Like, you know, you can get permanent residence, not citizenship. And we're like, that's really a big long shot. Like, the odds are not in our favor. And so we thought, okay, that's a great test to see if the Lord is wanting us to be in another country, because big deal, like when you're moving 8,000 miles away. But we did, and long story short, we got the green card, which was a miracle because it's like 1 in 14, like, you know, 14 million applications. They only give out 50,000 and they only give 900 per, like, in Australia. So you got 900 out of 14 million people. We got it. So it was crazy. And a lot of my friends have tried and they don't get It. So it's not easy. So we just knew, all right, Lord, you want us in America. But we didn't know why we were here. And my husband's done worship his whole life. So we were like, well, let's just land in Nashville. Because he was working with a lot of artists. So we came. I didn't like it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love that.

[Alex Seeley]

Honestly, I really did. It was just such a culture shock for me, you know, coming from Melbourne, Australia, it's really cosmopolitan, very artsy. It's almost like London in Australia. So if you think of London, the city, it's very. It's beautiful. And then I came here and I was like. And 12 years ago, Nashville was not what it is now. It's very different. And I was just like, what on earth have we done? But, you know, the Lord knew what he was doing. And my husband got to work with a lot of artists, musicians, crew, all that jazz. And I really saw how church homeless a lot of people were, and especially those that would tour a lot because it's such a different, different city to every other city. And they were very transient. So everyone's away from, like, Wednesday night through to Monday. They get home Sunday night, Monday. And they weren't really in church. So they were doing the work for God, but they weren't being ministered to. And so Henry and I, we are true pastors at heart. And so I'm like, who's discipling these people? Who's caring for these people? And we really saw a need within that community. And that's when we kind of opened up our home, not considering it to be a church, but just a ministry for people to just come and get ministered to. So it wasn't like, come, let's build a church. It was really like, wow, I know how to teach, preach. I've been doing it for 20 something years. And Henry knows how to lead worship, so let's just have a Bible study in our basement. And we invited five people. That was it. Five people. And then every other week, people just kept inviting their friends because their lives got radically changed. And so within 12 months, we had 120 people every week in our basement. But we still swore black and blue it wasn't a church until we got a prophetic, many prophetic words that this is a church, and we really didn't want it to be because we knew the commitment. Yeah, you know, once you say yes to a church, it's not a five year plan, it's your life. And so we yielded and we were like, obviously, this is what God wants to do. And we said yes, and the rest is history.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's amazing. That's crazy. I don't. I didn't know that. I didn't know it started in the basement and you guys didn't have plans for it to turn into a church.

[Alex Seeley]

Not at all.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And look at what God has done.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's unbelievable.

[Alex Seeley]

I know. It's a real gift.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So you were speaking before you were speaking in Australia?

[Alex Seeley]

I've been a pastor Since I was 21 years of age, so I have been in ministry, yeah, since I was 21. We pioneered a very, very large movement in church with our pastors in Australia. 10,000 people in our church. A ministry that touched the globe. My husband traveled, worshiped, leading across the earth. So, yeah, he's very, very humble. He will never tell of what he did in Australia, but actually it was. It was pretty amazing. And so this is not new to us. Yeah. So we came here when we were just about to turn 40, so we'd done ministry for a while.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's amazing.

[Alex Seeley]

So that's why we kind of knew what to do with people. But we just didn't ever see it as a. I didn't want to be a lead pastor at the church. Like, that was not my. My primary. Love God, love the church. I'll help anyone build the church. But I just didn't want to be responsible for the church.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Alex Seeley]

So. But I think he wanted to replicate that which was in us. And I think we've learned a lot over the years. So it's almost like God's like, actually, no. And that's what Chris Caine was actually the main confirming voice. She's been my friend for 35 years, but she was like, you really do need to reproduce what's in both of you and Henry, because it's unique to the culture here. And it's just, you know, just bring who you are and let the people, you know, learn from that discipleship model. So I feel like it's just been act of obedience. And God's blessed.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And God's blessed. It. It's really fun and it's impacted so many people. So we are very grateful that you guys moved here and for all that God is doing. And to give a little context, so Alex and I, we have. Even though we don't know each other for. We haven't known each other for very long, we have experienced a very crazy situation on a plane. But, yes, we have.

[Alex Seeley]

We could have gone to Australia. We could have.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We could have done all kinds of things with our time during that time. I'm like, we had the travel day from you know, where you guys. Because. And I think I realized that you were speaking at Sadie's that night.

[Alex Seeley]

Oh, that night. I was.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So the devil was trying to do everything he could.

[Alex Seeley]

Yes, he was. I mean, I. And I couldn't believe the peace that I felt. Cause I had to leave my daughter home in Nashville. Cause she was actually traveling with me. She got bumped off the flight because we got changed so many times. And she ended up going home. So I ended up traveling solo. But I just remember the peace of God and just not being stressed, but just. I couldn't believe that for 17 hours to get to Louisiana from Nashville, which we could have driven twice.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes.

[Alex Seeley]

And got there.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I know.

[Alex Seeley]

And it took us so long.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love that you had. You had peace for the both of us.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You weren't stressed for the both of us. Because I was stressed and I had a bad attitude. I'll be honest. I had a bad attitude because. Okay, the first. So we get there. I mean, our first flight was 5:00am.

[Alex Seeley]

No, I slept at the Hilton because I didn't want to go because I live 40 minutes from the airport. So I was like, we'll stay at the hotel because we've got an early flight. Yeah. So to get there at like 4:35am and then.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And then we got. And then it was delayed for two, three hours. We're sitting outside waiting, and then they finally tell us, yeah, flights canceled.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

There's like, no other flights. Finally get to. Where did we land? Dallas.

[Alex Seeley]

Dallas.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We land in Dallas. And then it's another delay. We think that.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah, we get on the tarmac. No, we're on the tarmac, ready to go off.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And then they're like, you guys, I'm so traumatized. I don't even remember.

[Alex Seeley]

It was like, complications. We've got to go back. And then we're like, okay. And we sat there. It was so awkward. It was awful. And then the next flight on the tarmac again, no complication. I was like, I'm done.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And we sat there for like an hour.

[Alex Seeley]

We did. We.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So, okay, just long story short, we got to the airport at 4am we landed in Louisiana at 10pm 10pm it was the longest day ever. And I was like, I think Alex is on my flight. And I was, like, texting some of my friends. I was like, I think that Alex is in some of you.

[Alex Seeley]

That was the crazy part. Until really late in the game. I know, because I was just, like, sitting patient. But honestly. And because I was off social media, too, because I was fasting at the time, and it was so funny that I basically had my thoughts and myself. I ended up making friends with the ladies on the. I was like, okay, this is actually a great assignment for me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Alex Seeley]

It was actually really good. But I was very devastated for Sadie because I had to text her and be like, I'm not making tonight. So, Lisa Harper, you're.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You gotta. Someone's gotta step it up. And they said it. It worked perfectly with the flow of the night. And then I'm so glad because I got to hear your message, and it all worked out.

[Alex Seeley]

It did.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So Alex ended up speaking the next day, which. This is what really inspired me to want to have you on this podcast, because when she spoke this message all about a David generation, I was taking so many notes. I literally have my. My journal. My journal here, where I was taking so many notes. And I had my sister with me, too, and we were just, like, looking at each other, and we were like, man, this is really, really good. And I can just tell, like, you are not afraid to hold back, and you speak the truth, and I love that. And you were speaking with so much passion, and I was just getting fired up. But anyways, I was like, I've got to have her on the podcast, and we've got to talk about this, because I think that we see such a tension, and I want to get into the story a little bit, and I want you to kind of unpack the message a little bit for those, obviously, who weren't there at the conference. But we see this in our generation today, like such a struggle and tension between the fear of man and the fear of God and pleasing God and pleasing people. And you see that between Saul and David. And so you were really commissioning, you know, all those who were there for us to, you know, seek God like David did, and to, you know, look to please God instead of look to please people. And so I'm really excited about this topic because this is something I've struggled with. I mean, this is something that I think a lot of people struggle with, recognize with it or not.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah, it's why I talk about it, because it was what, you know, when I was younger. I just wish someone had told me, you know, And I think that's why I have such a. I feel like an obligation to help the next generation get it right so that you end well. Because we're seeing a lot of collateral damage from the process not being done well because Saul became king in a day, right? And David, it was a process that God had for him. Joseph had a process like you look at Jesus had a process. And I think whenever you get thrust into notoriety, thrust into your gift set, thrust into the public eye without preparation, it will take you out. If you don't know who you are in Christ. And that's the biggest deal. I think that that breaks our generation right now is the lack of process.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. I have so many questions that are coming to my mind even right now. But I first want to. I would love for you to set the scene too, with just a little bit about this story. Ye. And kind of getting them into the characters of maybe if they have not. If they're not super familiar with the story. David and Saul and the difference in their journeys and the difference in how you alluded to this and you said this in your message. And it stuck with me. But they both started the same. They both started as king, in a sense. I know their process was different, but they both started as king, but they didn't finish the same. And as believers and what I want to always commission my stay true people here is like, man, how we finish is so important. Yeah, anyone can start.

[Alex Seeley]

We all get started.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, we all get the start.

[Alex Seeley]

Everyone gets a starting line, and we all get the equal starting line, salvation. Right? But how we finish our race is up to us, and it's not up to God. And I think I said this in the message where God's not obligated to fulfill your potential. You are. He calls you, he equips you. But your sanctification process, your process of learning how to become like him and live like him, that's up to you. And so with Saul and David, they both start at the same age. They were both 30 years of age, right? They both had the same reign. 40 and 42 years of being king. They were given the same Holy Spirit that empowered them, and they had the same mantle and assignment. But one finished with beautiful legacy. Jesus becomes the son of David, and Saul ends up taking his own life. And you gotta look at the story. This is why the Bible is so fascinating to me. You've got to look at people's biography, in a sense, where you gotta go back and you gotta go, all right, so why did one kill themselves and one become the legacy of Jesus Christ? And I think this is where it's at. Whereas Saul, he was just walking to find his dad's donkeys one day and yet the people of God did not want God as their king anymore. They wanted a man. They looked at all the other regions, all the other people groups, and they're like, the. They have a king. We need a king. Actually, they had a king. They had King God, you know, King Jesus. But they didn't really, really understand it. And so they want this human king. And so God goes, all right, I'll give you a king. So we'll pick this guy, right? And so I think for Saul, it's kind of sad that he just gets thrust out of, you know, anonymity into this, you know, position of power. And he hasn't developed, you know, he. When he gets approached by the prophet Samuel, he says, why would you choose me? So, right here is the biggest issue. And you've probably gone through this. I had definitely gone through this. But when God thrusts you into a place where he's called you, the first response with most of us. Most of us is, why me? I'm not that good. I don't think I can do that. And that's okay, because. But in that, you've got to go, well, I am no good. Therefore, Jesus, you have to be my everything. Whereas what happens is we say, well, we're not good. Why would you pick me? And then we live out of our insecurity rather than throwing ourselves into who we are in Christ, letting the process do its course so that we get so fortified in knowing that our identity is not in our gift, our identity is not in what we do, but it's in Christ. Therefore, everything flows out of that. And that's what happened with Saul and David. And we can unpack all of that in a minute. But I think that's the crux, is that God's got a call for every single one of our lives. But you have to know who you are in Christ so that you can fulfill it without being damaged and destroyed with your own insecurities.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. And this story can be found in 1st and 2nd Samuel and 1st and 2nd Kings. So you guys can go and read all about it on your own. Highly encourage you to do that, because we're gonna be kind of, you know, picking around at it. But it is a. It is such a. There's, like 500 sermons in.

[Alex Seeley]

I still find things in here.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's so good. It's so good. But when you look throughout the story, you see time and time again when you look at Saul and when you look at David, you see so many moments. I was even reading it this morning where Saul is saying, but I feared, man. I feared what the people thought. I feared what they were gonna think about me. And David didn't operate like that. And so I'd love to jump into, why were they so different? And what do you see, like, when you read that story and how can we apply it to our life with the difference between David and Saul and how they approached what God had given them and who they were in Christ?

[Alex Seeley]

It's really relationship. And again, this is Old Testament, so they didn't have Jesus like we have Jesus, you know, they had God the Father. And. But they were given the Holy Spirit. And in the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit would come upon them for a task, come upon them to do what they were called to do. Now the Holy Spirit lives in us. So it's very. It is different. But the same applies in the sense of David knew God as father, because when you look at the way that he was a young man, and yet he was with the sheep, he was out in the field, he was a worshiper. He knew God because you can tell he knew God. So. Because when he got. Got asked to do an assignment to go and fight Goliath, he didn't actually be. He wasn't asked to go fight Goliath. He was asked to go give supplies to his brothers, right? So he is so established in who his father, who his father is, that by the time he gets to the battle line, he sees the Philistines and he sees Israel standing on opposite sides. He sees Goliath taunting Israel. And straight away he's like, who is this uncircumcised Philistine that taunts the army of the Lord? So straight away, he's already got this sense of knowledge, like, hold on a minute. This bunch of people that uncircumcised. That's not just him being gross. That's. That actually means these people are not in covenant with our God, which means they're on the losing team. And Israel doesn't even know what they carry because the Philistines are out outside of the realm of the covering of God. Israel is under the coverage covering of God of covenant. So why is that? Why is everyone afraid? So he goes down knowing that this is God's battle, this isn't my battle. For the. For the God will slay this giant, not me. Yeah, it's like. So everything in him was already fortified in who his God was, who the father was. It was an established reality in David as a young man. And David wasn't the finest. He was like number eight, you know, he was the eighth child. And, you know, scholars will actually say that he was born out of perhaps not even a great union with Jesse. Scholars will talk about how his mother. He was born in iniquity. Right. It says in the Psalms. And so they don't have verification on it, but scholars will allude to the fact that David was kind of the reject. It's why he wasn't up for selection. So he had every right to feel insecure. He had every right to feel rejected. But because he knew who his Father was, he obeyed God in everything he did. Whereas Saul was equipped for the task. But because he hadn't developed his relationship with God the Father, he relied on everything else. It's why we have to know who God is and who we are in him before we ever do anything for him. Because we've got a lot of Christians who work for God, but they don't walk with God.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow. Yeah.

[Alex Seeley]

So you can do all the ministry stuff, but actually not have a relationship with the knowledge of who you are in Christ.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So true.

[Alex Seeley]

That's really the crux of it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. So true. It's like when you have an understanding of who you belong to. Yeah, I love that. Yalls Church is called belonging covenants.

[Alex Seeley]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

When you have an understanding of who you belong to, whose you are, then only from that place are you able to discover who you are.

[Alex Seeley]

That's exactly right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so when you have. It's what Alex is saying, like when you have a relationship with Jesus, then only from there, and you see it even in the New Testament, you see this moment and encounter with Jesus and Peter where, you know, Jesus says, hey, who do you guys say that I am? And Peter says, you are the Messiah, you know, and in that moment, Peter discovers who he is, and then also he discovers what he's called to do, and he's given a purpose. But you first have to start with, like you're saying, you have to have this relationship with God. And Saul lacked that. And so because of that, he tried to find validation in other people. He tried to find acceptance and belonging from other people. But when we know who we are in Christ, we're not longing for belonging. We already have belonging. We already belong.

[Alex Seeley]

And that's exactly why we call our church that you're not belonging to the church. You're not belonging to Henry and Alex's church. You belong to Jesus. And because that you then will never live in a cause. I feel like this generation just lives in perpetual rejection and insecurity. I Feel like it's such an age of insecurity. It's like, where do I fit? You only fit under the shadow of the Almighty. That's where we live. We live and move and have our being in Christ. When you find that you don't care what people think of you, you don't care what he's asked you to do, you have no fear to do what he's asked you to do, because you're not trying to impress. You're not trying to be the number one of anything. You're not trying to have a platform. And I feel like, you know, this is. This is my biggest pet peeve. And maybe I feel like I'm an old school mother, but, you know, I'm 51, guys. I've lived a little bit of life and I love. I lived with insecurity when I was young because I came from a season of life where I did get rejected by my parents. Words like, they never validated. It was never good enough. I never measured up enough. Always felt like I had to prove myself. And that bleeds into your relationship with God. So how your relationship with your mother and father is almost bleeds into your relationship with Father, God and Jesus. And so I always longed for the affirmation of my leadership when I was young. I always wanted them to tell me, well done. I always wanted to hear that, hey, am I doing good? Am I doing good? And the Lord had to break me on so many levels and say, alex, I'm the only one that matters. So would you stop looking to this leader and that. Because that leader is going to fail you one day. And then what are you going to do? And that's why I think we've got such a disconnected church, because so many young people are looking at leaders and they're falling left, right and center because they're not who we put our trust in. Yes, we serve, we love, we do. But God is the perfect father. God is the perfect leader. And so Saul didn't do that. And Saul constantly was riddled with jealousy, was riddled with insecurity, riddled with fear. I mean, when Goliath was taunting them day and night, they were singing praise songs, but they weren't, they weren't advancing. And so David comes down, it's like, what the heck is happening down here? Like, I'll take him down. And even Saul's like, oh, put my armor on, you're gonna need this. And you're just a young boy. And David did not get intimidated by the King. Think about that. If the President of the United States told you that you're not good enough, you would go away going, oh, okay. But he goes, no, I killed a lion and a bear, and God was with me, therefore this is no different. He didn't listen to the opinion of men. He didn't listen to the king's opinion of him. He didn't listen to his brother. When Eliab comes over to him and he says, what are you doing down here? And he actually decides to attack the very thing that God loved him for. And he said, david, you've got a wicked heart. You're here with ulterior motives. You just want to get in on something. And David doesn't engage with his brother. And he goes, not talking to you. I'm here to fight the real enemy. And so he doesn't. And see, we get engaged. Think about it in social media. Think about it with your family. Think about it with your peers. If they say something negative, we fall apart. And yet he doesn't fall apart. When his king says, you're too young, his brother says, he has a wicked heart, because he still says, no, this is God's battle. And I've just got to go in, this is my moment, because I'm fighting an enemy. And he goes in with what he has, which looks incredibly insignificant. It's not polished, it's not state of the art. It is a little pebble in a slingshot, but with God on his side, he's like, we can do this together because we're the majority. Slings that thing, hits him right smack in the forehead, falls down, and then wipes off his head with Goliath's own sword. And now everyone is, like, freaking out. Saul's jealous because Saul wants the victory, but he just doesn't have the fortitude to trust God. And when you can get into a place of the secret place, and this is really important, when you find out who your father is, when you find out what Jesus did for you, you find out that he just loves you for you, and that everything that he prepared for you to do is good. You don't care, because then you can be thrust into any situation, and yet you're not worthy. You're not capable. But with him, you can do everything. You can do it all.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Alex Seeley]

And so when you get in that place, you're unstoppable. And that's my heart for a generation. Will you know who you are so that you can do my exploits?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. I love that you spoke to the secret place, because that's something that we talk about a lot on this podcast is just the importance of our private life. And you alluded to, you know, David saying, hey, God's already. He slayed the bear for me. He slayed, you know, like, I trusted him with that. I'm going to trust him with this. And it's because he trusted God in the private when no one was around, you know, no one was there to see David, you know, killing a bear or a lion. But God was there and he was faithful in those private moments. And God, they were experiencing those private battles together. And those private, like David seeking the Lord in the private with no one around. So that in the moments where, you know, because a lot of people just focus on the David and Goliath moment. And, and I think that's what everyone wants is they, they look at this story and they're like, I want to be like David. Right. I want to be like David. And I think what they forget is what you mentioned, which is the process, the preparation that it took to get there. The private life, secret space moments of just cultivating genuine, real intimacy with the father. And then even like all the crap that came with David's life. I mean, people don't get that. No, people totally forget that. That his own son tried to kill him, that the king tried to kill him, that his friends betrayed him, that all of these things happen in his life. But people see the throne and the crown and people see him defeating Goliath. And I think it is. It's a real problem for our generation today. And so I'd love for you to even get us into how can we cultivate those secret place private life moments so that in those moments, like, we can have such a sure relationship with Jesus and also be so confident, have a God confidence because David stepped up to that moment with confidence. Not with cockiness, but with confidence because he knew who is God was. But there's a difference.

[Alex Seeley]

There is.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it takes those private life moments. And so what would you say to like, this generation of how to cultivate those private life, secret place moments.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah. Fall in love with Jesus? Because I think too, we've got a method to get to God. And I don't think it's method. It's like, you know, when I met my husband, we were best friends before we were girlfriend and boyfriend. And I just, I long to be in his presence because I enjoyed his talk, his engagement. I. I long to be with him because I loved him. And it's only ever got stronger. So I Don't make an appointment to see my husband. I don't say, well, my devotional life with Henry is 30 minutes in the morning, and I've checked off my little devotional. And my time with Henry is when I can get it. Like, you know, I'm like, you know, I'm always like, dit, dit, dit, dit behind him. But it's like that with the Lord. It's like I so am in love with him that I can't wait to be in the secret place with Him.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good.

[Alex Seeley]

Instead of it being this thing that I have to be in the secret place. It's. I get to. I want to. Because when I'm in the secret place, he reveals mysteries to me. I get to know his heart. I get to be filled with more love. Like love drives you to be everything that you are. Love God. That's why he said the two greatest commandments are to love God and love people. So when you are saturated with his love, you're drawn into the places that he loves. You're drawn to what he loves, what he hates, what. You understand him at a. A granular level rather than this. He is God in a throne, and I must serve him. And he is God. Therefore I must read His Word. He is God. So I have to do the Christian thing. When you live in that place, you will do works for him. But when you. When you get the revelation that without him you're dead, you thank Him. Like, I. I've never. I grew up in a Christian home, but I got saved at 11. I was 11 years of age, and I was actually writing about it last night. I just. I had the revelation that I am a sinner at 11 and that without Him, I'm deserving of eternal damnation. Because all of us have fallen short of the glory of God. All of us are with sin. And when I got that revelation, I was 11. I don't know how it made sense to me, but it did. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ that I was drawn to salvation. I need Him. So when I repented, I remember literally feeling weight lift off my shoulders. I remember the heaviness, the burden of sin. And when I got filled with Holy Spirit, filled with Jesus, everything changed. It's like I could see in color. I saw freedom. I saw thought. I have been in love with Jesus ever since. And so my life with him is not. I have to. Or to get something from God. I have to do this and to just memorize Scripture. Then it makes me a good Christian? No, no, no. I devour Scripture. I just. I want to know Him. If this is his book that he left with us and His Holy Spirit is left with, I want to know everything about him. And I. I want to be so filled with. It's not me, but Him. So when you. When you live from that place, you look forward to your secret place. And that is the game changer. Rather than it being a chore, it's a desire.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Amen. It's adoration. Not this obligation. It's. I get to spend time with the One who saved my soul. And not. I'm doing this to get something from Him. I'm not. And I think what makes and grieves my heart is what I do see so often, even in the Christian space, even in the Christian influencer, even in the Christian pastor space, is I'm spending time with God to get something from God, or I'm spending time with God to use God for my own, you know, advancement, for my own platform, for my own name. And it really breaks my heart because it's Psalm 103. It's one of my favorite psalms. And it's just like talking about, do not forget all of the benefits of who Jesus is, of what he offers, and of what that relationship is to you. And it goes on to list all of these things. And it's like, he forgives our sins. He redeemed our life from the pit he crowned us. It just goes on and on. And it's like I have to remind myself of that, because if we're not careful, we all can fall into that. And I'll be the first to say I can so easily fall. Fall into this trap where I want to be liked.

[Alex Seeley]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I want people to like me, and I want my life to matter. I want my life to count. And sometimes that can go from, you know, because I belong to Jesus and I want to make it all about him. And he saved my soul. And I just want to tell everyone about Him. It can easily swing over to, well, you know, he's given me this opportunity, so now I got to make the most of it. Now I got, like, I got to tell everyone. And I want it to be my platform that grows, and I want it to be my name that they're talking about. And Grant and I were actually. My husband and I were talking about this the other day. He was sharing with me. He was reading through a story in scripture about Gideon and how Gideon had this moment when he was fighting and he was telling all the army he was like, and when, you know, when we win or when we go through, like, everyone shout, you know, for God and for Gideon. And I was like, that's crazy because he verbally said it, but we often think it 100%. It's like, oh, I want God to get the credit, but I also want Maddie to get the credit.

[Alex Seeley]

Oh, totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I totally want people to talk about me. I want people to remember that it was me who said that thing or that posted that thing, or I want to get the credit. And that's just something that we have to, like, continuously be reminded of. And I want to really dive into. Like, I really want to talk about people pleasing and what that looks like and how that destroys our intimacy with Jesus and how it keeps us even from walking in our true identity. So why do you think we struggle with people pleasing? Why do you think that it's become such a problem in this generation?

[Alex Seeley]

Because there's a deficit in knowing who loves us first. And I think there's been a deficit in families. I think families are broken. I think they're very dysfunctional. We've all come from a family where you just didn't feel validated. And, you know, everyone wants to feel celebrated. Everyone. And I don't think that's a bad thing. We're all called to be great. The Bible actually talks about it. You know, when his disciples were like, who's going to be the greatest? And. And he was like. He didn't rebuke them for wanting to be great. He just said, make sure you actually learn the definition of great. Because to be great, you have to serve, you have to go low. You can only do that when you actually know that there's someone bigger than you that actually validates you. And I think at salvation, we've taught people that we have escaped hell, but we've not taught people what we've gained in Christ. So when you read Ephesians, I always used to tell new Christians to read John, the Book of John. Get to know Jesus in the Book of John. Yes, please do that. But I actually think we need to devour Ephesians, because what it does is those first three chapters actually tell you what you've inherited in Christ, right? So you go, oh, my goodness, like, I'm seated in heavenly places. I've got the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. So there's a paradigm shift of, I don't need to seek man to approve me now. I live from approval. Whereas I feel like we've got a generation seeking approval from all the wrong spaces. And that marker is always going to change. Your mom's going to be proud of you one day and then she's going to be disappointed with you. Your teacher is going to be the same. Your, your leader is going to be the same. But Jesus, there is this just, there's this identity in him that's immovable. Because you go, it's no longer I that live, but Christ who lives, lives in me the hope of glory, right? So you go, huh? I'm actually dead. Therefore, why would I have to fear you loving me when I'm already loved? And this takes time. Because I used to live under the fear of man. Because I was, I lived under the stamp of rejection most of my life. I lived to please because I never got approval from my family. And I think this is what happens when we don't get those fundamentals at a young age. We're always trying, trying to feel validated. And that's actually a dire need. But when we don't fill that God shaped hole with God, we're always going to be looking for money, notoriety, platform, people, influence. And I don't want influence, I want authority. Because when you have authority, you will be influential. But don't seek influence. Seek authority. And the only way you gain authority is like Jesus. He stole away with the Father. He only did what the Father told him to do. He understood he was the Son of God, he was God, but he submitted himself because he was so vertical with the Father that anything that he did, he didn't care if the Pharisees hated him. He didn't care if his own disciples betrayed him. That didn't affect him. And when we can trust God and love God, we don't worry about. And it actually says in scripture how Jesus did not care about the validation of man. He didn't care. He didn't care whether they said hosanna in the highest and crucify him. Why didn't that affect him? Because he was so tethered to his identity with the Father that everything he did came from mission, not for popularity. And if we can understand, you are so loved for God, so loved. Forget the world, let's just, let's micro it. For God so loved Maddie that he gave his son, his only son. So that if Maddie would believe in him, you will not perish, but have everlasting life. So when you get to that place of going, he loved me, warts and all, sinful as all get out. I don't have to clean myself up for him, but the more I'm with him, I become like him. And therefore you live free. I think it's freedom when you know who you are in Christ. So that piece has to. You gotta get that right. And that takes time of developing that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Relationship and being in the secret place and not rushing. Because I think what I'm seeing happen so much is like, I got saved. I've tasted freedom. So now let me start a podcast.

[Alex Seeley]

Oh, gosh, yeah. This is my.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And here's the thing I want. I believe when you have tasted and seen that he is good, testify to him.

[Alex Seeley]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And let the Lord strip you and develop you in the private place, because it is a really dangerous and scary place to be when you're still learning your relationship with God and trying to teach other people how to love God 100%. And so not. We shouldn't be longing to jump into this place of teaching. And I think the difference is share your testimony. Share what God has done in your life. But when you're trying to just jump into teaching immediately, when you're still. And we're always going to be learning, but when you're still like. And Paul talks about it like, when you're still a babe and you're drinking milk, you know, it's like, that's not the time to be teaching. That's the time to be in the Word and letting the Lord develop your character. Learning true conviction, learning scripture, meditating on scripture because you love it and not because you have to give it, not because you have to teach it, but because you love it. And so I love that you alluded to that, because I do think that's so important to. I want to differentiate that with people. It's like, if Jesus Christ has saved your soul, yes, go and testify to that and tell everyone, you know, and. And let that be a time where you get alone with him and you just let him develop you. Like, that's my story. I mean, you know, we have a pretty similar story of just. I fell in love with Jesus 8, 9, 10 years old, got baptized, got filled with the Holy Spirit, and, you know, would just do everything I could for. I wanted to do everything I could for Jesus. I was so in love with him. And I still. I had my moments in high school where it went from, you know, revelation to reputation. I fully cared about what other people thought about me. And it was. I wanted their approval. I wanted attention. And then it was college when I, you know, committed to going all in with Jesus again. And it took a lot of years for me to just be in the hidden place and for the Lord to strip me of pride and self reliance and self promotion and caring about what other people think about me and people pleasing and all of those things. And I just think that's so important because even looking at my own life and people will say, you know, you went on reality TV and then you got this big platform, like, how did you do it? How can I do it? I want to start my own podcast. And I'm just like, oh, gosh, it's crazy. Because what they didn't see were the years and years of me on my knees and on my face and in the Word and in tears and saying, I don't. You are a enough. Like the Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing. Jesus, you are enough. If I'm stripped of everything else. You're all I want. You're all I need. And it took those years. And I think that is so important for this generation to hear. And so I'm really glad we're talking about it. And I want to ask you too, though, because, and this is something that, that I guess, like I would even have a question about is how, how do you honor people but not live for their approval? Like, how can you still want to honor someone? You still want to honor your parents, you still want to honor your friends, you still want to honor your spouse, but you're not living for their approval or trying to please them. You're trying to please God. Like, how? What's that difference?

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah, well, I think when you learn how to please God, he's going to allow you how? Like to submit to your parents when you have to. Right. It's, it's, it's honoring. See, honor is placing value on somebody, right? So when you understand who you are, you're not, you're not living by your emotions anymore. You're living by the spirit of God. Right? So you're choosing to love. Like I, I could honor my parents for being, bringing me into the world, taking care of me, providing a roof over my head, educating me, clothing me, feeding me. There were elements that, when my mom, she had a high standard. It was very high. And I always felt like I never measured up to this high standard. I mean, I have a funny story. Even she really did not like Henry when I first brought him into my life and because she didn't think he was good enough. And so let me tell you how I did that, because I said, all right, Lord, I submit to my parents because they are my godly authority. I'm not Going to rebel against, against them. But I believe that Henry is meant to be my husband. So what I'm going to do now is I'm going to honor my parents by saying we can't date just yet because I want their blessing. But now my job is to commit to pray. And I'm going to pray that you change their heart. If Henry is meant to be my husband, you can speak to my mother's heart. You can change her. And for two weeks, Henry and I committed to pray. We didn't go behind their back. We didn't do what was wrong. See, I was honoring their covering, but then I was committing everything to the Lord because I knew God, I trust you that much, that if this is to be your will, you'll make a way.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Alex Seeley]

Two weeks later, she stops me and she says, and by the way, I was praying with my friend yesterday and God rebuked me and said, stop wanting what you want, because this is what God wants. And I release you. You have my blessing. So there is such a security in your walk with God that you can go. I honor you for the position that you have in my life. But ultimately, God, I trust you as my higher authority to change the situation. Same when I've been married, I've been married 26 years. Instead of nagging my husband into change, I honor him. I don't yell or get mad or react. I go and pray because again, I understand my position as a wife is to be a helper. And he is the priest of my home. So I'm not going to fight him in this. If I feel like there's something that I'm convicted by, I'm going to honor my husband. But I'm going to go to that prayer closet and then you'll see Henry come around a week or two later. This is back in our early days, actually. You're right. Is that right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And you're like always happens that way. Oh, but, but those first six months to a year, I didn't have that figured out. And I.

[Alex Seeley]

None of us do.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I was full on nagging, trying to change, trying to control. And yes, you're so right. It was in that submission to the Holy Spirit, getting on my knees.

[Alex Seeley]

That's it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Taking it to God, that's it. Instead of trying to complain about it, nag about it, all the things, or.

[Alex Seeley]

Make it happen or make it happen. That's how you honor. You place value on that person. But even when you don't believe something is right and you gotta live, but also God gets To change you?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes.

[Alex Seeley]

You know, because I had to do that with my daughter. Then when she was in her teenage years, there were some things that weren't right, but I wasn't going about it the right way. So I wasn't actually honoring her process. I was trying to control. So again, I had to push back and go, all right, God, what's going on? And he had to change me in some areas. So when you have that security in God, ultimately it's trust, Right? So you go, God, I trust, trust you. Therefore, I can place value on someone and respect elements I don't have to obey. If they cause you to sin, don't do it. But you can place value on the things that you can place value on. But then let God do the work. And I think that honestly builds your faith. So then you're able to trust God in all circumstances because you're like, I've got this. Because no longer am I manipulating, changing, like, trying to fight for something. I'm trusting God and I'm trusting the process. And in that process, he's actually changing us. It's actually great.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So true.

[Alex Seeley]

That's why process is necessary. And for all of those that are listening, you know, I'm 51. I started ministry when I was 21 in a young adult's ministry. And I really didn't start preaching like I do until I was 40. 20 years. 20 years of serving, 20 years of submitting, 20 years of learning, 20 years of being hidden. 20 years of being given opportunity, little opportunities. But not until. For 20 years, God kept me in a hidden place, and then he puts us in America, and I still go even more hidden into a basement. And yet that is when I get an opportunity that comes out of nowhere. And that's actually where Sadie was. That was my first preach in America, really was when she was at that conference.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's crazy.

[Alex Seeley]

And I. And then after that, it just. It's like domino, bam. It opened, and then the belonging. Everyone goes, wow, Overnight success. Oh, no. 20 years.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Alex Seeley]

Of hiddenness.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Alex Seeley]

So don't despise process.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. And it makes me think about this. So what would you say, Alex? Because I think this is a really fascinating. Because I do feel like the times today that. That we're looking at and just with what we've been given, with social media and how our world operates today, even how our ministries operate today, we can make anything of ourselves, and we can make ourselves overnight success or a pastor tomorrow or a, you know, a podcast host or whatever. We want to do. And I guess what I would ask you is what would you encourage the person who knows God has called them to preach or start a podcast or, you know, whatever their thing may be, that maybe they believe God has given them this big dream, laid it on their heart, they're called to do it. Is that not something they should go and pursue immediately? What would be your. The process you would recommend or encourage them to enter into? When we live in a time where you don't need the process anymore. Whereas, you know, years ago you kind of had to have the process, you know, in a way, and not always, but I think there were a lot of circumstances where for the most part, like the process was required or the process was necessary. But now it's like no one. It is that instant gratification, that instant success for a lot of people. And so what would you encourage this generation to do when it comes to. They feel like God has put a big dream on their heart. What do they do with that?

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah, well, the dream is, first of all, you've got to ask God to confess. Is it a God dream or is it your dream? Motive is everything. Why do you want that dream? What are the things you dream about within that dream? What's the outcome of that dream for you? Because if it's not for the salvation of the people, but it's about you, it's a self made dream. It's not a God dream. And often a God dream is way beyond your natural capability. A God dream is exponentially greater where you go. You actually are in fear of it a little bit because you're like, that's too big. I don't think I can do that. Also make sure the fear of God lives in you because every word that comes out of your mouth in the name of God is going to be judged. And you don't want to be speaking for God when you've got no business speaking for God.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, amen. I think so many people, I think.

[Alex Seeley]

They forget that every, every word that comes out of our mouth will be judged. Every flippant word, every dumb word, every heretical word. If you don't know the Bible, you have no business talking about Jesus. If you don't know. I remember saying this to a couple of young leaders. I said, stick to what you know, stick to what you've overcome. Stick to only what you have. Because authority comes from what you've overcome. Authority isn't just theory. So you can talk like we can have three people speak. I could give my notes to Three people speak the same message. And it will have very different results. Totally right. Because of the authority that backs it. And authority comes from obedience. It comes from dying to self. It comes from. From putting God first. And so when you have a dream, nurture that dream in your heart. Actually begin to do the things in the hidden places. So I had a dream from when I was 11. I knew I was going to preach the gospel. I knew it in my heart of hearts. But I had no business preaching the gospel at 11. But I did share my testimony. I moved in the gifts of the Spirit at a very young age. I would prophesy, I would have words of knowledge, I would pray for people. I would pray for them, for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's amazing how I was developing. But then things would happen in my life where I would feel insecure. I would feel, you know, like, now I need to. Now I need to do this. And when you want to put you at the center, you're not, you're not ready yet. But just like Joseph, Joseph got given a dream when he was 17, but that dream looked really good. Like, you're going to bow before me and I'm going to be a ruler. And his brothers are super jacket jealous. But then he gets to the end of his life, right? And then he says, no, what God, what you meant for evil? God meant for good. For it was for the salvation of the people. So the dream in Joseph's life was never about him being prime minister of Egypt.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Alex Seeley]

It was about saving Israel so that the remnant could bring Jesus to fruition. Because if Israel had died out with the famous, we wouldn't have the line of Jesus to be brought into the New Testament. So when you understand that your dream is not about you and the dream is about others, you're ready. So in the meantime, nurture that dream. Ask God to confirm that dream. But now make strides to develop yourself. Go to Bible college, learn the Bible or get plugged into a local church, or do a little Bible study where you're not out to the masses. Develop and watch your fruit. If your fruit remains with maybe a small group of people, then take it to the next level. Then take it to the next level. So it's not about not having a dream and not doing anything. It's knowing when to move and when to. You know, so. And having great counsel around you that can help you. Don't just go off and be a lone ranger. Actually submit yourself to somebody who's been there before.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good Those are some really good practical steps for those of you out there who are like, I have this big dream. God's put this thing on my heart. And I, you know, I want to do great things for Jesus. And that's amazing. And like you said, we actually have a very similar. So much of what you're saying, I'm like, yes, me too.

[Alex Seeley]

Yes, me too.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I was the same way, little girl and knew I felt called to speak the truth all over the world and tell people about Jesus, but I didn't know what that would look like or when that would happen or how that would come about. And same thing. Like I was, I was so invested in my local church. I spent all of my time at my local church and same of just filled with the Holy Spirit. And the Spirit moved through me through healings and miracles and amazing things. And what's interesting is I feel like when that started changing in my life was when I started people pleasing, when I started fearing man. Because then I went into situations where before when God had moved in a miraculous way and I would lay hands on someone and pray in faith and then they would experience healing. Then when I got older and I became a teenager and I started getting a little boy crazy and I really cared about what people thought about me. It changed because I was like, well, if I do that, what if God doesn't come through? What if it doesn't happen?

[Alex Seeley]

Because then it looks on me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. And I think that what's so interesting is that the fear of man and people pleasing, it plays such a role in all of that because it's like, even in how we share our faith. I think for so many of us, we don't share the gospel. It's easier for us to do it behind a camera, but it is harder for us to actually go up to someone and share the gospel and like, actually tell them, walk them through what it looks like to know and follow Jesus and how Jesus has changed our life. Because we fear.

[Alex Seeley]

That's right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because we care about what people think about us.

[Alex Seeley]

That's right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so I would love for you to just for a second, I guess my question would be how can we break free from people pleasing? How can we stop living for the approval of people? What are some practical ways that you've seen in your life that you've seen for other people in all the years of ministry that you've done? And how you can break free from people pleasing and stop letting that run your life?

[Alex Seeley]

That's a great question. I think I had to do a lot of inner healing work, I had to first deal with the rejection issues of my own family. Like, search your heart. Ask the Holy Spirit to do a heart audit in your heart. Like, go, okay. Why is it like every time you feel, you know, we always feel it, you know, when you're pleasing, you know when you're not being truthful with something, you know when you're holding back because you're fearing the rejection of the group. Like, you know, when you're not living your best free self. Right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Alex Seeley]

So when you're in those places, ask yourself, why? What was I afraid of today? What was that? Was I really afraid of somebody shutting me down? Where does that come from? So I want you to look inward and go, actually, God, where is the deficit in me that inhibits me to speak the truth, to share my faith, to. If somebody brings up a topic that's a taboo topic, that I know what the word of God says about it, but I'm too afraid because everyone's going to call me a hater or everyone good God, why? What do I fear? And then go to those places and say, God, what is the root of that fear? Because perfect love drives out fear. Therefore, I have to get to a place where I love you so much that even if I. What? Because just a news alert for all of you who want to be people of God, you're going to be persecuted. If you're not hated at one point for your faith, you're not doing it right. Because we're actually this whole influencer, beautiful, popular leader doesn't exist in scripture because they were killed for their faith. So, wow. If you are not willing to be hated, you're not really prepared to be a disciple of Christ because there will get a place where we're moving into that world where to be a God lover means you're a people hate Peter. Right. Which is not true, but that's how the world's gonna see it. So they're gonna persecute you for your faith. So where the rubber hits the road is, oh, why, why? Why do I always feel like I need their approval? Because when you live from approval, like when, honestly, I can't explain it more than this. I just dealt with the fear of man by going, God, I don't, I don't. I haven't received your love fully.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Alex Seeley]

Because when I receive your love fully now, I don't care. I'm just living free. And I. And I. People don't believe me. But I think you really need to know Me to know. I don't care what people think anymore. I really don't. I. I have the love of my father, I have the love of my husband, and I have the love of my children. I'm good if all of you. Because you know what? People are fickle. And it says that Jesus did not. He was not enamored by the praises of men because he knew what was in their heart. One day they were going to be like, I love you. The next day they're going to hate you. So when you get that fortified, the same people that love you will one day turn and hate you. So why live for that, that fickleness when it's only going to take you out?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so true. And I love that you pointed to the persecution side of things, too, because I think that is something that when you live your life on the praise of people, then you're going to. You're going to.

[Alex Seeley]

You will be taken out.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, you're going to be taken out. When they're persecut and the hatred comes, which if you're doing it like you said the right way and you're loving God and you're preaching the truth of God, the real truth of God, then the persecution is going to come. And Scripture talks about that, blessed are those who are persecuted for my name. You know, blessed are those, you know, who when you're insulted or you're rejected or you're. It's like, yeah, count it all as joy for my name. Like. And you see that even with. You alluded to this with the disciples in Acts, it talks about how they were beat and they were. All of the Pharisees and the Sadducees were saying all of these mean and hurtful, you know, hateful things about them. And it says that they left jumping up in joy, rejoicing that they got to suffer for the Name. Yes, it says they rejoiced because they got to suffer for the Name. And I thought that was so powerful because how many of us are so afraid to suffer for the Name? But they rejoiced in suffering for the Name. And, and so standing firm in truth and following truth is not supposed to be something that comes with roses and rainbows and is easy peasy. It's like it's going to come with some persecution and with that peace from the Lord that surpasses understanding. And I want to kind of wrap up with this idea as we're talking about people pleasing and kind of end. Even talking about a little bit of like perception manager Because I think that for a lot of people and what I've seen even be like a trend for our generation today is like to claim people pleasing as their identity. It's like, oh, I'm a people pleaser. Like, that's just like who I am. It's a personality trait.

[Alex Seeley]

Oh yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's like a full on personality trait. There's these reels that blow up and it's like I'm just, you know, it's just who I am. I'm a people pleaser. And it's almost this like funny fad trend and to claim that as your identity and to come into agreement with that. And I want to talk about how important it is for us to understand how detrimental it is for us to operate as people pleasing. Because I do think that for a lot of people, they think, oh, well, I'm just a nice person and I just want people to like me. I just want to be friendly. I just want to be liked. Like, I just, I want to, I want to be good with everyone. And so they think that people pleasing is almost this, like, it's, it's in a way kind of them taking this lower position where it's not like they're cocky or they're arrogant. It's like, no, I just, I, I want people to be happy with me. And you know, maybe it aligns with an enneagram or it aligns with the way. Whatever, you know, and I just, I want to speak to that because I do think that a lot of people have come into agreement with this identity of being a people pleaser. And I would love for you, you to speak to how dangerous that is.

[Alex Seeley]

Oh, it's, it's extremely dangerous because it's a moving target. Yeah. And it will never bring a life of a lack of conviction makes you double minded. And a man who is double minded in all his ways is unstable.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Alex Seeley]

And you know, you, you, you have to live with a conviction. Like I will always say to people that it's not going to please them. I just say, hey, this isn't my opinion. This is what the word of God says. And I can't go against the word of God. So I'm not saying it as a hate or a we can agree to disagree. But I can't compromise the value of the word of God, which is the final authority in my life. I won't compromise that just to be liked by you. I love you. I will be truthful to you, you, because that's true love. But to sit here and Go, oh, I just don't want to rock the boat. And I just want to make everybody feel loved and happy. That's actually not the gospel. It's not the way of Jesus. He said, I am about my father's business, period. He did not come to appease. He did not come to stroke egos. He did not come to tell you it's okay, you can keep living like that. Because he understood eternity. And when you have eternity, I don't think we actually believe there is a hell. Sometimes your fickleness and your lack of a backbone is actually driving people to hell. Your kindness on this side of eternity, your. What you think is kindness is actually driving people to not know there is a hell and there is a heaven. And it is in scripture. And Jesus did not die so that we could just be happy. He died so that we could have eternal life with him. So if you don't live by that conviction, then you don't know Jesus and you have no place talking about him. So please get out of the kitchen. And I say that with strong conviction because we are in dangerous ground. And the Bible talks about there are going to be people who tickle our ears telling us what we want to hear. That is a person that keeps people happy, that leads people to destruction. It is the wide road. No, we are called to live the narrow road. We are called to live according to God's instruction. And it is not easy. But his yoke is easy. His burden is light. But with him, we can do all things. Without him, you're going to be literally double minded. So I would say to that person, it's not about making people happy. It's about setting people free.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Alex Seeley]

And truth sets people free, not agreement.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. Oh, I have like tears in my eyes because it's so good. It's so true. And I think so many times we almost try to be less offensive than Jesus was.

[Alex Seeley]

He was very. The gospel, actually, it says the gospel is an offense to those that do not know him. It's offensive to the flesh.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's even I read it and I get offense. I'm like, ouch.

[Alex Seeley]

Well, he tells you forgive. So think about this. He tells you to forgive your enemy. And I think about people who've been sexually abused, people who have been wronged, take things taken out of their control. And then he asks you, you have to forgive them. Like, that is a hard thing. But you can't do that in and of yourself. You can only do that when you've had a revelation that you were first forgiven. It's stuff like that that offends the flesh. See, the flesh says, no way I'm justified to hold that anger and resentment. But Christ says, hey, I was innocent, and I still forgave them. So when you line and measure yourself up with them, that's when you can do it. Right. So it's stuff like this where it offends the flesh. Actually. That's why we have to die. And when your flesh isn't dead, you can't truly live in the fullness of Christ.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. And it talks about improvised, that there is a way that appears to be right, but in the end, it leads to death.

[Alex Seeley]

That's right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I think for a lot of people, they're trying to be fluffy with their words, and they're saying it. That it's grace, they're saying that it's kindness, they're saying that it's love. But like you said, it only leads to death. It only leads to destruction because it's not the truth. Whereas Jesus flips that on its head in John 14:6, and he says, hey, I am the way, and I am the truth, and I am the way that leads to life. That's right. And life forever.

[Alex Seeley]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so it's like, we don't have to try and, you know, soften Jesus's words. We don't have to try. And it's like, no. Romans 1:16. I am unashamed of the gospel that saved my soul. Like, I am unashamed. And this is the truth. And like you said, it's only the truth that can set us free.

[Alex Seeley]

Totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And we're all looking to be free.

[Alex Seeley]

Totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We're all longing for freedom.

[Alex Seeley]

Got to just make sure it's coded in love. Love actually is the softener. Yeah, but truth is harsh. But when you coat it in love, it's palatable. You can. You can ingest it. Yeah. And I've had to learn that. I feel like I'm a very straightforward preacher, but it is coated in love because I actually want the freedom for the person on the other side. It's not judgment. And we. We came from a generation that was very legalistic and very black and white. I don't believe we're called to be that. Called. Just like Jesus, sinners loved being around him, and when they were around him, they changed. It was the religious that never changed.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow. So that's so true, because he, like you said, he met them with love. He met them. He went to them. Like, he went out of his way to go to them. So he met them with grace, but he never left them the way that he found them. He always left them calling them higher, calling them out of their sin, their sin, leading them to the truth. And so it is that combination, like you're talking about and as we're talking about people pleasing and for those who are like, is it really that big of a deal, though? Like, this is just like how I am and how I'm wired. It says in Galatians 1:10, am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God or. Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

[Alex Seeley]

That's it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It is quite literally telling you, you cannot, cannot fear God and fear man at the same time simultaneously. You cannot both be living for the approval of God and for the approval of people. You're choosing one over the other when you choose. And so it's so important for us to have that revelation and understanding that when we live from revelation, when we live from revelation, we're not trying to get a good reputation based on other people's getting know point of view, and we're not longing for acceptance and belonging like we've talked about. We're loving from it, we're living from it, and we're living in freedom because of it, because we already belong. And I just. This was so good and I know, so helpful for a lot of people. Even for me, it was just so encouraging to get to talk through this because it is something that, you know, even I. I've been very honest on the podcast, but, you know, in being in the position that I'm in and having a lot of opinions around me and having a lot of voices and having praise and having criticism, and it's really tuning out both and getting in the secret place. Because what's crazy is even when someone gets some type of platform, I think people forget that. It's like, there's. I have to be in the secret place every single day.

[Alex Seeley]

You're still human.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like, I have to be in the secret place every single day because that's the only place I'm receiving what I need to be, who God's called me to be outside of being some podcast host or speaker, but to be a child of God. Yeah, to be able to love my husband the way that God calls me to love my husband and love the, you know, the coffee barista and the people around me. And so this was so encouraging and so helpful. And yeah, I would love to Just really close in prayer. I'd love for you to just pray over the. This. Those listening who have been wrestling with their identity and just trying to figure out. Out who they are, who have been placing their identity in other people and letting other people define who they are. And I think it would be really helpful for you to just pray for us.

[Alex Seeley]

Beautiful.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Pray for us.

[Alex Seeley]

All right, well, let's pray. Everyone just close your eyes. Wherever you are, unless you're driving, don't close your eyes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Close your eyes.

[Alex Seeley]

But we're just going to present this request to the Lord. So, Father, we thank you for this conversation. God, I just. I love you so much. And the more I talk about you, the more I fall in love with you. God, I pray that everybody listening would understand just how precious, how wonderful, how unique they are to you, that you formed and fashioned them in their mama's womb and that you predestined them for greatness, that you prepared for them in advance to do good works. But, God, I pray that they would find that in you first, that before they ever do anything for you, that they would actually be with you. God, I pray that even now, those struggling with insecurity or the fear of man or. Or even those rejection issues that have come perhaps from school, being bullied or for not being loved, or maybe experiencing divorce in their family or rejection on some level. God, I pray that even today that you would go to the very depths of their heart and make right what the enemy wanted to destroy them with. Get their. Get their position of who they are in you right before they ever say anything, do anything.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes, Lord.

[Alex Seeley]

And God, I pray that you would affirm them today, that you would remind them that you chose them. They didn't choose you. That you purpose them to be here at this particular time for a purpose beyond their wildest dreams and imaginations. And so if that's the truth, God, God, I pray that they would begin to fall in love with you again. God, I pray that even today they would put down whatever they're doing in a moment and they would go find you. They would put on some worship music and just be sung over by you. God, I pray that they would read your word with different eyes so that they would see themselves. Because the word of God is a mirror. It shows us where we're at and it changes us. It transforms us from the inside out. So, God, I pray that these young people, old people, male, female, whoever you are out there, God, I pray that they would find you. And because of that, they would be strong in their understanding of who they are so that they can do all that you've purposed them to do without fear of man, but knowing that they've been called for such a time as this to do great and mighty works in your name we pray. Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. Oh, my goodness. My baby girl was jumping around. She was rejoicing and saying amen.

[Alex Seeley]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So good. Thank you so much for coming on the Stay True podcast. You've blessed me and I know you blessed so many other people. And what I love more than anything is how much you know your word and how it just flowed from your mouth so easily. And it shows how much time you spend in the word of God. And so what an encouragement here on the Stay True. Just speaking truth. So thank you for coming on and I'm going to include Alex's books in the show notes. For those of you who are like, I want more from Alex. We all want more from Alex. I will include her Instagram and her books in the show notes so you guys can go and check it out. So thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. We love you here at Stage True. And as always, guys, be sure to stay you stay true. We love.