How to Stop the Spiral of Negative Thoughts and Walk in Spiritual Authority with Jennie Allen

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Episode: How to Stop the Spiral of Negative Thoughts and Walk in Spiritual Authority with Jennie Allen
Release Date: October 7, 2024

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt," host Madison Troutt welcomes her mentor and esteemed guest, Jennie Allen, a best-selling author and founder of If Gathering. Recorded live in Dallas, Texas, the episode delves deep into combating negative thought spirals and embracing spiritual authority. Madison and Jennie share their personal journeys, intertwining faith, mental health, and practical strategies to stay true to one's values and beliefs.

---

Personal Journeys and Foundations

Madison and Jennie's Relationship
The conversation begins with Madison expressing her admiration for Jennie, highlighting their serendipitous meeting and the profound impact Jennie has had on her life and marriage. Jennie recalls how she recognized Madison's potential early on, playing a pivotal role in her relationship with Grant Troutt.

Madison [00:07]: "She has been my mentor for some time now, and she is truly a gift from the Lord."

Jennie [02:10]: "There's a hole in you, and so I think it's giving a name."

Impact of Mentorship
Madison shares a heartwarming anecdote where attendees at one of her speaking engagements remarked how much she reminds them of Jennie, underscoring the authenticity and joy she radiates, mirroring her mentor's influence.

---

Understanding and Combating Negative Thoughts

Identifying Toxic Thoughts
Jennie introduces the concept of recognizing and inventorying one's thoughts as the first step to halting negative spirals. She emphasizes the prevalence of negative thinking, citing that approximately 80% of our thoughts are negative and 95% are repetitive.

Jennie [06:51]: "The first thing you have to do is you have to notice your thoughts."

The Three Lies
Jennie elucidates the three primary lies that humanity believes, which are often subtly ingrained from a young age:

1. I am Unlovable
2. I am Helpless
3. I am Worthless

Jennie [11:45]: "The three lies are, I am unlovable, I am helpless, and I am worthless."

Spiritual Warfare and Authority
Drawing parallels between psychological struggles and spiritual warfare, Jennie discusses how these lies are tactics used by the enemy to maintain control. She refers to 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 to illustrate that believers have divine weapons—the Word of God, the people of God, and the Spirit of God—to dismantle these strongholds.

Madison [16:01]: "Don't wage war like the world does... the weapons we fight with are not of this world."

Jennie [21:50]: "You have to recognize the weapons you have."

Practical Strategies to Fight Negative Thoughts
Jennie shares actionable steps to overcome negative thinking:

1. Speak Out Loud: Vocalizing negative beliefs can diminish their power.
2. Community Support: Engaging with trusted individuals for prayer and accountability.
3. Anointing and Symbolic Acts: Using symbols like anointing oil to claim spiritual authority over one's environment.

Jennie [27:42]: "Say it out loud... get it out of your head and into people's lives where they can help you."

---

Embracing and Untangling Emotions

Acknowledging Emotions
Transitioning from thoughts, Jennie and Madison explore the importance of embracing emotions rather than suppressing them. Jennie argues that feeling emotions is essential for processing and healing, as emotions guide us to areas needing attention.

Jennie [58:15]: "We can't be totally afraid of them and push them away."

Scriptural Foundations for Emotional Health
Jennie ties emotional health to biblical principles, encouraging listeners to mourn, rejoice, and connect with others to build strong neural pathways that facilitate healing.

Jennie [64:16]: "You're not going to just spiral with your emotions and never come back to truth."

Practical Approaches to Emotional Well-being
Strategies discussed include:

• Community Mourning: Grieving with others to foster healing.
• Scriptural Reflection: Using Bible verses to ground emotions in truth.
• Prayer and Vulnerability: Sharing emotions with God and trusted individuals to receive support and strength.

Madison [51:57]: "Pray out loud... it changes everything."

---

The Power of Prayer and Spiritual Authority

Prayer as a Weapon
Jennie and Madison emphasize prayer's pivotal role in combating negative thoughts and spiritual attacks. They share personal testimonies of how prayer has led to healing and protection.

Jennie [29:29]: "They fought for me, and it changed things."

Gather 25 Initiative
Jennie introduces Gather 25, an upcoming global event aimed at uniting believers for prayer, worship, repentance, and commissioning to reach the lost. She underscores the collective power of faith and prayer in effecting change.

Jennie [38:23]: "Gather25 is March 1, 2025, and we're inviting every person that loves Jesus to come together for one day."

Real-Life Miracles and Faith
Both speakers recount instances where persistent prayer led to miraculous outcomes, reinforcing the belief in God's active role in believers' lives.

** Jennie [47:30]:** "God can and that we're crazy not to try and defy that."

---

Conclusion and Call to Action

Encouragement to Listeners
Madison and Jennie wrap up by urging listeners to actively engage in prayer, community support, and biblical study to overcome negative thoughts and emotional struggles. They highlight the transformative power of faith and the importance of staying connected to God and each other.

Madison [68:00]: "Basically, I'm telling you to follow Jenny. Go and follow gather25. Join it. Be a part of it."

Final Thoughts
The episode concludes with heartfelt affirmations of mutual respect and gratitude, reinforcing the message of authenticity, vulnerability, and the strength found in staying true to one's faith.

Jennie [66:55]: "You are following someone that is following after Christ in their daily life."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Awareness is Crucial: Recognizing and identifying negative thoughts is the first step toward overcoming them.
2. Spiritual Weapons: Utilizing the Word of God, community support, and the Holy Spirit can dismantle strongholds of negativity.
3. Embrace Emotions: Acknowledging and feeling emotions leads to healing and stronger connections with God and others.
4. Power of Prayer: Consistent, faith-filled prayer acts as a potent tool against spiritual and emotional struggles.
5. Community and Support: Engaging with a supportive community can enhance personal growth and provide necessary accountability.

Recommended Actions for Listeners

• Start Journaling: Track and identify negative thoughts to understand underlying lies.
• Engage in Prayer: Make prayer a daily, vocal practice to combat negative spirals.
• Join Gather 25: Participate in global prayer initiatives to unite and amplify collective faith.
• Connect with Others: Surround yourself with a supportive community for mutual encouragement and accountability.
• Read Jennie Allen’s Books: Get Out of Your Head and Untangle Your Emotions for deeper insights and practical strategies.

---

Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt continues to offer a sanctuary for growth, laughter, and real-life advice, empowering listeners to navigate life's challenges while staying true to their faith and values.

---

Find Gather 25 and more resources: Gather25.com

Note: All quotes are attributed to the respective speakers with timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[A]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and I'm smiling ear to ear because I have one of my favorite humans in the world in this room with me and we are actually in Dallas, Texas, so we are not in the Stay True studio, but I have my very favorite Jenny Allen in the studio with me who is literally a rock star of a human being. She has been my mentor for some time now, but she is a best selling author. She is the founder and visionary of if gathering. We got gather 25 coming up that you guys. We'll talk a little bit about that. But she is truly a gift from the Lord and I am so, so excited that you guys are going to get to hear from her. I have talked about you on my podcast multiple times. So it's so sweet that you're finally on.

[B]

It's so good to be here. You are one of my dearest friends. Like, it's so fun that God brought you into my life. It feels like a miracle and I'm so freaking proud of you. And it's so fun to be here.

[A]

It really is a miracle because neither of us knew of each other.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

And you were starting a small group with just like a couple girls in your living room. And Janine had heard about it and I was living with Janine and Janine was like, you need to come. I hear this. This lady, Jenny Allen is amazing. And I just was like, okay, let's go. And literally from the moment I was in your living room to really when we had like our first one on.

[B]

One, I know exactly what you're thinking about.

[A]

When we had our first one on.

[B]

One hangout, talking over each other the entire time.

[A]

We're both y'all. You're going to see. We're a lot of fun. We're a lot of like. But what's crazy is you and Grant are also a lot of like.

[B]

I know. So it's. I love that man.

[A]

I know. Who is the best. It's funny because I feel like you have, like, I have a lot of you, but Grant has a lot of you. And it's just like you resonate with both of us. And Jenny and Zach, you guys, like, I just have to start off by saying this. They have single handedly, other than the Holy Spirit and the grace of God saved Grant and I's relationship before they were married.

[B]

They've been just fine since they've been married, but when they were dating, it's true. I felt convicted that this was your husband. I felt it.

[A]

I. When I was dating someone else, I was telling you about the relationship, and you said, you need to end the relationship. And then Ginny hears that this guy, Grant Trout, who I don't think you had met.

[B]

I hadn't. I don't think. I think maybe we kind of. I knew what he looked like. Yeah, I knew of him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I had a feeling.

[A]

She was like, yep, you need to go on that date.

[B]

I mean, he had some of the externals. He was so cute. He was a basketball lover and player. He. He had a lot of the things. And then also, you guys loved.

[A]

Went to the same church. I mean, there was a lot of crossover. But when we. Grant and I broke up for, like, a split second. Jenny.

[B]

I go and get Grant. I invited Grant over to our house.

[A]

Jenny pulls Grant. Like, she, like. I mean, not by the shirt, but, like, I'm envisioning that this does not.

[B]

Make me look good. I psycho.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

And she's like, I said, come over tonight. He came over.

[A]

You're going to come over and you're going to talk with me and Zach, and we're going to talk about this. Because she just had this conviction. She, like, knew for me.

[B]

I kind of felt like it was him. Yeah.

[A]

Which I love that I knew it.

[B]

Wasn'T the other one.

[A]

Why? You're the best, but you've just been such a sounding board and wisdom for me. And it's just. It's so cool because I think I told you this, but one of the best compliments that I've ever gotten on one of my speaking engagements. It wasn't even after I finished speaking. It was when I was, like, meeting with everyone and hanging out with everyone after and doing, like, this little, like, I hate the word meet and greet, but, you know, we're just hanging out with everyone, and one of the ladies comes up to me and she's like, hey, have you ever, like, have you ever heard of Jenny Allen? And I was like, tell me about her. Like, what about her? And she was like, you remind me so much of her, Maddie. She was like, you are so, like, authentic, and I can just tell you radiate the joy of the Lord. And you're just, like, taking time to talk with all of us, but you also have this, like, authority. And I was like, she's my mentor. I was like, that's the best compliment ever.

[B]

That is so great.

[A]

So you guys are in for a treat. Because truly, every. I mean, Everything you touch turns to gold. It really does. I mean, you just have the favor of the Lord on your life. And it's been so cool to see from like living room to like being at your gatherings and your conferences, to being at these unite events with you, like speaking nights. I mean, it's just been the best time ever. But it's been really cool because I've seen like impact up close and impact kind of like far away. But I really want to. I want to talk about specifically your two books on thought, life and emotions. Yeah. One is called get out of your head. And this was this like your like first, like big time. But I mean, this book went crazy, you guys. So if you haven't ever read it, you need to read it because we've all been stuck in our head before and I want to get into that. But then your last one, untangle your emotions. Yeah, I'm really excited to get into that. I first want to start with get out of your head, but I'm excited to get into untangle your emotions because.

[B]

There is a moment, I know in.

[A]

Your living room where I look at Ginny and I'm like, I'm scared to feel. And you're like, yeah, let's unpack it.

[B]

I knew that already. Yeah.

[A]

You have seen that. And we're going to talk about that.

[B]

And I am too. I relate to you in that.

[A]

Yeah. Because we're, well, we're strong women.

[B]

Right. Like, and it's. We're forward facing. We are not ever looking backwards. We're like, why would you look backwards? Because feels like a waste of time. And so we're always going forward. And so it's hard to actually feel feelings if you never stop and you never. And you never value what it could do for you if you actually felt a negative emotion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it actually. There's a lot of positives.

[A]

There is a lot of positives. But I didn't want to feel it.

[B]

I know I was like, jenny, I.

[A]

Like the feelings of like, you know, being in control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joy, you know. But yeah, we're going to get all into that because I'm really excited. I have some questions for that. But starting first with get out of your head. And you actually just released a new devotional. Devotional. Yeah. And it's called stop, stop the spiral.

[B]

100 days to untangling. Well, no, no, no, no. To getting out of your head.

[A]

To getting out of your head. Okay. But I want to jump into that because my first question because I've been here is how do you stop the spiral of toxic thoughts?

[B]

Well, the first thing you have to do is you have to notice your thoughts. And I think most of us never think about our thoughts. We just feel or think whatever we're going to think. And we, you know, it's just going through our brain unchallenged. We never stop and pull these thoughts out. I really challenge people to first just start with a journal. Like, just start by taking notes and notice the things you think about. We think anywhere from certainly tens of thousands of thoughts a day. So that's a lot of thoughts. So we're having thoughts again, so many we don't even notice them. But they're affecting our brain, they're affecting our body, they're affecting our relationships, everything. And so I think the first thing is just to take an inventory and to begin to notice what it is you think about. And as you do, you'll be surprised because about 80% of science says of our thoughts are negative.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so that's terrifying, right? And then this is a funny one. 95% of our thoughts are repetitive from the day before, which means we're thinking the same negative thoughts over and over and over again.

[A]

That's crazy, because isn't there a thing with that? Like, once you've thought a thought, it's easier to think it again or something?

[B]

Well, that's it. I mean, you know, and I think about the enemy and how he is able to just put people on repeat for months, years of their life, just by feeding them a few lies and moving on and we attach to those. I'm actually working on a new project right now called tentatively Fight yout Lie. But it's basically this idea that we pick up a lie when we're young and we hang onto it for the rest of our life, man, if we don't fight it. And so that's pretty true. I mean, it's been true for me. And I'm someone who's pretty attentive to my thoughts because I write about this and I study this a lot. But I still will just go back to a conversation that I had with my counselor, and three years later we're having the same conversation. And I'm like, wait a minute, shouldn't I be over this? And he just laughs. He's like, yeah, you probably are going to be fighting these same ideas and thoughts till you're gone. Like, this is just. These are the things that got put in you at a very young age. These are the things likely that the enemy looked at my Personality saw my proclivity to things and said, hey, this is what she'll fall for. And so we've got to be proactive. We've got to notice what it is we're thinking. We've got to turn and face it and fight it and not just accept it, that this is the way it is, because that's part of it too. The enemy loves that we feel helpless, you know, basically. And get out of your head. I talk about there being three primary lies that all humans believe. And this is from like Psych 101. This is super basic psychiatry, psychological study, research. This is what they've decided, is that there's three basic lies. And I say this as a Bible teacher, because what a lot of science and psychiatry and psychology is finding out is in the scripture, like, Satan is a liar. Jesus says it like five different ways. Like, he is a liar. He's a father of lies. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. Like, he. He rephrases it basically five different ways. He wants us to know that that is the way the enemy works. And we know that God is a God of truth. And so those lies that just dig their way into our psyches and our brains are actually building neural pathways. They're building little roads in your brain that you can see, like scientists can see now. These are things that, that 100 years ago, nobody had a clue about. And yet the Bible talks about training our minds to fix our minds on what is beautiful, what is true, what is lovely, all of those things. And when you see the scripture, lay that out, to think on these things, that is exactly what science will tell you to do. Like to focus, to change your perspective, to take a negative thought and to interrupt it and to. To bring about beautiful, lovely thoughts, to fixate on things that are true and lovely. And so this is, this is the war we're in. It is the war of our generation. The main reason for that is because of the inputs we're getting everywhere. We've got so many inputs. And so, you know, there's just more of a war. So lies are easier to pick up. I mean, we don't have to get them when we were a child, from a teacher that was rude or a parent. We pick them up every single day when we turn on Instagram and see all of these other beautiful people and see the relationships that we wish we had or we see. So immediately lies are flooding us from the time we wake up. So it is just. This is the world we live in. It's saturated and we've just gotta fight.

[A]

Okay, you guys are seeing a riled up Ginny. And this is my favorite Ginny. Okay, I'm really excited. Cause I have a few questions with this. So one, what are those three lies you're talking about?

[B]

Yeah. So the three lies are, I am unlovable, I am helpless, and I am worthless. And in this new project that I'm working on, I really believe all of us at different points might believe those things about different things. But one of those lies has really gotten in. And I don't think it's easy Right now. Everybody's going, I don't know which one I am. I didn't either. And so that's part of why it's a whole book is helping identify it. Because we can't fight what we don't see. We can't go to war with something that we don't name. We have to name it. And so for me, my story, when I look back and I really begin to think about my life and the times that I have felt, I would just say a disproportionate reaction to something where I spiral, I spin, I freak out. And it's not necessarily something that everyone would freak out about. When I look back at those moments in my life, it has been moments of disapproval. And it's because all of my life I look back and I've been fighting for my worth. I actually think I am lovable. Largely now, sometimes I don't. But in general, I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty likable like you, very likeable. I go with that.

[A]

Anyone who meets Ginny Allen falls in love with her.

[B]

Nobody said that.

[A]

Yesterday we ran into Ginny at a coffee shop and he's like, I just. I love her so much. And like, I just want her to love me. And I'm like, I think she loves you. I think she loves you more than she loves me. And your mom too.

[B]

I love you both so much. I have to analyze it when I walk away, like, why do I love them so much? I love them so much. But I do think that, you know, so I don't feel that way. But I. And I think about helpless. And I'm like, I am a. Like I am a hard charger. I am a bad. You know what? And I'm like, let's go fix problems. Like I can solve things. And so that's not really me. But. But I look back at my whole life and I have felt worthless. The word I actually gave it when I was working With a friend that does healing. Prayer was. I feel like I'm nothing. I feel invisible. I feel like what I do doesn't matter. It just feels worth nothing. Like I am. I am out there. I will give my life to a project. I'll give two years of my life to a book, and study it, write it, pour over it, live it, talk to everybody about it, and then I'll put it into the world. And immediately I'm like, why did I even waste my time? Like, why did I even do that? And I'm an author who actually sells a lot of books, so I just. I mean, I know this is a lie in a way. You know what I mean? I know it helps people. I meet people, and I hear that it helps people. But I still. This lie is always with me, and it doesn't matter what is factually true. It's just still there, and I'm spiraling over it all the time. And how those lies affect us is that you end up needing things from people that they can't give, because you've got this chasm in you, and you don't even know it's there, and you don't even have a name for it. So it's not fair to our families because we feel like our parents aren't good parents because they didn't meet this need when the reality is they were doing the best they could. But you have this hole, and so I think it's giving a name. You know, many of us that have grown up in the church have heard that before. There's this hole in your heart that only Jesus can fill. I actually think that hole has unique names for each of us. I think it actually is unique to our personalities, to the way we were raised, to the struggles that we've had in our life, the sin patterns we've had. So when you think about it that way, it's like, well, gosh, what's my chasm? What's my hole? You know? And if I could start to name that, then maybe we could start to really bring truth to it. I love the name of your podcast, Maddie, because you've always believed, since I met you, that you can fight darkness with truth. Like, truth is our weapon. And that is true. Like, that's. That's how we fight. And so when we know what the chasm is, when we know exactly what we feel insecure about and what we tend to believe about ourselves, then we can fight it. And I should say, too, all of those lies I just named, each of them have A little bit of truth to them. Yeah, we are a little helpless, you.

[A]

Know, apart from Christ. Right.

[B]

All of those. All those things. Right. We're not actually likable and lovable like we actually are, you know, enemies of God prior to his blood covering us. So he. I do believe he has great affection for us or he never would have died for us. So I want to be clear. I do theologically believe he has great affection for sinners and he has great affection for the lost. But being right with God takes the blood of Jesus. And so. And believing in that. And so, yes, to some degree, our worth goes up, our power goes up. Our affection that God has in the relationship he has for us is healthier and stronger. So all of that is more true with a relationship with Jesus.

[A]

Gosh, that's so good. And it talks about a lot of what you just touched on in Second Corinthians.

[B]

Yes, let's go there.

[A]

Don't wage war like the world does. You know, the weapons we fight with are not the weapons of this world, but we have in Jesus and in the truth of Jesus Christ, the weapons to demolish strongholds and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of Christ. And that word stronghold, really, you could just replace with lie. Like, you could just replace that with lies. And so what you're speaking to, I think is so powerful to touch on because I think the world has a way of fighting. And you see that with these like, affirmations, I am enough. I am this. I can do anything.

[B]

Never felt true to me.

[A]

It's just. And it's like if you pair that with the truth of Scripture, of in Him I am enough. And because of Jesus Christ, I can do all, like Romans 4:13, in him, like I have the strength to do all, all things. But it's only through him and in him. And we can't live our truth and expect the results of freedom. It's like the only way we're going to experience true freedom from our minds and freedom from those lies is when we cling to the truth of who Jesus is. And so I love that you spoke to that because I do think that there's a difference in the world's way, self help in Bible, in Bible, there's a difference.

[B]

You know, it's so funny working on this book because when I laid out these three lies and I saw them, I was like, wait, these are a little bit true. And yet what we're fighting for is control, approval. We're trying to get these things we're trying to fix these problems with the wrong answers.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So we're going after. If I can just control my life, if I can just get on the dating app and find the man, if I can just make things happen for myself, then I'll be happy. And it's so funny because the way of Jesus is to lay down your life, to pick up a cross, to pick up suffering and to follow him. Well, there's no control in that storyline. You're talking about death, you're talking about following a God who may lead you to any kind of mission field of, you know, locally or abroad. Like you don't have control over a God like that. And so, you know, you take each one of these things and you realize, wow, like the answer actually is not to get that thing we're craving to get control for me, to get approval or worth, to finally find, you know, perfection. That's what I think is going to make me happy. If I'm perfect, then I'll be worth something. If I can check every box. If, if my book sells this much, if I hit New York Times, if I. We've got something in us that's driving us now. It may not be that for you. I don't know what it is for you, but it, it. I know better. Here's what's crazy is we know better. And still why do we, why do we go there? Why does my brain do this? And of course we're at war. There is an enemy and he hates us. When Paul writes that in 2nd Corinthians 10, he is saying this in war language. I mean, it is not passive. It is like we're going to go nuke the devil. Like it's like we are going to go after him. And so these weapons, weapons of our warfare, I mean, that's how he starts it. These weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but have divine power to destroy strongholds. And this is a great conversation. I really want us to go here. Sorry to hijack, but this is so good. And you know, I talk about this kind of thing is the difference in, and we're touching on it right now with the self help stuff, but the difference in what we think can solve our problems and then supernatural power of God and spiritual, like entering that part of Christianity is so important. And I think so many people miss our spiritual power or authority because they don't know it exists. But Paul's saying it real clear right here.

[A]

Yeah, there's a spiritual war and so many of us are trying to fight Things in the natural realm and in the natural world with natural, physical things. When there is a spiritual war and we are spiritual beings. And so it's so important. Important to touch on that, because there's not. I mean, I. I don't know, I could probably name two, three people in my life that walk with the kind of spiritual authority that you do. And I. And honestly, I was, like, having this conversation the other day, and I was like, actually, I wanna. I wanna talk with Jenny about this. So it's funny that you bring this up, because I do think that there is a role that we play in this. And so my question to you would be, how do we. How do we, like, take on this spiritual authority and then, like, when those thoughts come, how do we choose to, like, override them with that. With that power?

[B]

So let me tell you a story. So when I was. I guess probably this was. It was before COVID so 2018, I was in a point in my life where I was leading. I was in public ministry. I was having success. And I felt like if you were to ask me at that point in my life if I function with spiritual authority, I would have said, absolutely. And I remember. And again, it's kind of a creepy story. I talk about this and get out of your head. This woman came up to me after I spoke one time. You've heard this story. And she. I believe she cursed me. And I believe that because she said, we're coming for you. It was all this kind of demonic language. Not to get weird on the podcast.

[A]

No, please go there.

[B]

It was. It was the craziest story. And then the electricity goes out in this megachurch because she's screaming in the background. I mean, it was. It was like a picture of. Not a picture. It was the devil overplaying his hand and me going, oh, my gosh, this is all real. Now, we all know it's real if we believe the Bible, but we really saw it. Like, this woman was cursing me. She's screaming, the electricity goes out. Nobody can explain it. Afterwards, we talked to maintenance, we talked to the pastor. They're all there, and they're like, we do not know what just happened. And I'm like, of do.

[A]

You're like, I know exactly what just happened.

[B]

So I go home, I call Chris Caine, because I'm like, of course. Who's my most, like, going to help me right now? Because I just got cursed. You know, I was like, I got to. I need help. And so I call her. She's like, oh, no. And I Was like, chris K. Oh, no. Like, if. If Chris Caine is saying, oh, no, I'm in trouble. And she said, you need to get everybody praying for you. You need to. You need to, like, cast this out. You need to. You need to pray against all of this, and you need to look at your life and make sure there's nowhere the enemy can get in. So. And why I say that is. And I'm so glad she told me to do that. Zach and I sat down, we looked at our finances, we looked at our marriage. Ironically, we had been in a fight, and we don't fight much before I had spoken. And we just quickly forgave each other, apologized, made it right. We looked at all of the parts of our life and just said, is there anywhere that we're in sin that the enemy could get a stronghold or. And we really didn't see a place at that point. A year and a half later, I would look back and realize that at that point, I began to wake up in the night, which I often do, and I began to fixate and spin around the question, is God real? I don't believe there was a. I'm not saying we don't have sin, but there wasn't a massive cognitive aware place we were sinning. Yeah, but the enemy can come in even just through questioning. And where I gave permission for that was I didn't tell anybody that I was wrestling with this. So for 18 months, the question, is God real? Began to haunt me. And I began to just lay in bed and wrestle with that to the point that I developed a tremendous fear of death. I mean, I couldn't watch movies that involved death. I thought about death all the time. I was terrified. I look back at my little brain and I go, oh, my gosh, Jenny, this is so obvious what's happening. I was so obviously under attack, but I did not see it for 18 months. 18 months I go through this and I let it happen. And I. I don't even think I told Zach. I don't think I told anyone. And. And I think it's because for so long, it wasn't a big deal. It was just some thoughts in my brain, right? And then it began to take more root, and then it began to take more hold. And then all of a sudden, it was beginning to impact me. And I remember Zach said, gosh, your anxiety is really high. Because he knew I couldn't watch movies. I would walk out of movies because they scared me. And I was not like, I mean, I'm sensitive, but not that Sensitive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I remember finally telling, I told two dear friends we were in Uganda and they started laughing and they were like, Jenny, you are one of the most faith filled people I know. Because I said, I feel like I'm losing my faith. That's what I said. I feel like I'm, I'm losing. And that's what it felt like. And they started laughing at me. They were like, jenny, we know you so well and you are so. My middle name is Faith. Like I literally am. That is who I am. It's true. And I do. I walk out on the water when he says walk, I walk. It's true. I do it. And I started laughing and I was like, oh my gosh, this is ludicrous. Like, I believe in God. I do. And I love him. And of course he's real. This is the stupidest thing. So I say that I'm going to say a few things to answer your question. The first thing is you don't even know until you say it out loud how stupid it is. Now sometimes I say things out loud and it's not as easy to laugh at. And I really do believe it's true. Even when I say it out loud. I struggle with that war thing. I mean, that really is one for me of measuring up and all of that. But some things, the enemy's so stupid. It's like this. No, I do believe. I believe in God. And I really haven't struggled with it since. For 18 months I felt like I was losing my faith. And I really, since I said it out loud, I've not struggled with it since. So back to your question, which was, what do we do? The first thing we do is we say out loud the thing we're wrestling with, whatever it is. And you see this at unite. When we go to unite and we're on these college campuses, JP gets up and gives a, delivers a hard sermon about holiness, about purity, about following Jesus. And then I get up and I'm like, okay, now everybody confess your sin. Like, everybody say it out loud. What are you afraid to say out loud? And some bondage just breaks when you.

[A]

Say it out loud.

[B]

It just breaks. And it doesn't mean that it's not going to be hard. Some of this has led to addiction. A lot of our thoughts have become addictive thoughts. So. So you know, we're gonna have to do something else after that. But the first thing is to say it out loud. To say it to people you trust, to say it, risk it, be the fool. Like, just get it out. I mean, literally. Sorry. To quote my own book, get it out of your head and into people's lives where they can help you. That's the very first thing. And then the second thing is, remember, we win. Remember, God is victorious. Those verses in 2nd Corinthians 10 changed everything for me because I went from not even playing defense. I just laid there every night at 3am and spiraled. I never interrupted it. I never thought to myself, like, this is a lie. I never turned and fought it. Once I realized. And immediately my friend said to me too. She said, jenny, this is spiritual attack. And I was like, duh, this is the most obvious thing in the world. And I totally missed it.

[A]

Sometimes you just do.

[B]

Totally missed it. So the next thing is, you've got to. You've got to recognize the weapons you have. And to me, looking at all of scripture, he doesn't spell it out exactly right there. But we know throughout scripture that our greatest weapons are the word of God, the people of God, and the Spirit of God. Those three things are our greatest weapons. And so you tell the people of God, you let them fight for you. After I told those two friends, and I told them how long it had been, and they saw me after I laughed, I cried. And I mean, we cried together. And they said, we're going to pray and fast for you, in case this is something that only scripture says is only cast out with prayer and fasting.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So sweet friends, it was so vulnerable to receive this. And this has happened before for me, not very often, but where someone has said, I'm going to fast for you, just for you. Not. Not for God to move on the earth, not for revival to come. I'm gonna fast for you, Jenny Allen. And I mean, they didn't eat for a whole day. Like, they didn't eat. And that was so vulnerable for me. But. But they fought for me, and it changed things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't struggle after that. And then the spirit of God, that authority, I mean, bring it. You speak it now in my room. And we went. We anointed our whole house with oil.

[A]

Same. Every door, same.

[B]

We anointed our. The top of our bed. Like we. And we poured oil all over that house, y'all. And this isn't some kind of weird oil. Let me just be clear. This is like olive oil here. But this is a. That's all I had.

[A]

But also, you can get anointing oil. I went to Amazon and I said, anointing oil?

[B]

Yeah, you can do that.

[A]

I'm sure that's olive oil and a little anointing oil too.

[B]

Totally is. But my brother in law, who's Presbyterian, I mean, he is just as like conservative as it gets, right? He comes over and he believes in this and he's like, we are going to bless this house. And we did. And I really believe that's part of our authority. We're saying, this house is God's, this house, this family, our kids, this house is God's. And so again, it's exercising, it's symbolic. I don't think there's actually something in that oil, but obviously that's why I think the olive oil does work. But I can still see those crosses. I can still see those crosses over my doors. And yeah, I just think it's laying claim, it's taking a stake. It's saying, this is God's, we are gods and this is God's. And so that's just an example of how you fight back. But there's so many ways. And again, the greatest way is the word of God, that sword that scripture talks about, the Ephesians says, you know, we have a sword and we get to fight back. And so I would lay a memorized Psalm 139 and I would lay in bed because what I was afraid of was death. So I would speak it out loud. I would say, God, that if I go down to the depths, you are there. If I go down, another version is to Sheol, which is like basically hell. If I go down to hell, if I go down to the grave, you are there. And I would just say it over and over again. And so we fight. We fight back with the word of God, we fight back with the people of God, and we believe that the Spirit of God is bigger and stronger.

[A]

That is so good. There are so many things I want to touch on off of what you just said. And one, I think it's so important that you called out, like even just asking yourself, is there any sin in my life that is giving the enemy a foothold? Because I think so many times we don't realize that we are locking ourselves in our own prison and asking God, why aren't you letting me out? When our sin is keeping us in that prison? Like our sin is keeping us separated from the Lord and separated from truth and freedom. And so I think asking, is there any sin in my life that I need to deal with, that I need to confess, that I need to repent from, I think is so important. I'm so glad you touched on that. And Then a question I have for you that I think is really a question that probably a lot of people listening or watching this are thinking is sometimes it's not always easy to identify what the lie is. And we're going to get into feelings here soon. But what would you say to the person that's like, hey, I just. I feel off and I know something's not right, but I don't know what the lie is in my life.

[B]

So this is. This is. I'm working this out. I have not tested this a lot, but this is the way that currently this is in this project. What I'm asking people to do is to make a list of the negative thoughts that you have and that you've had over your lifetime. Just make a list. You can go to certain circumstances where you felt it. Like, I remember a time I was sitting with somebody I love and trust and. And I was 12 years old, and they began to name things that I needed to do to measure up. And I remember that being a marker. And so you kind of name times that you remember feeling overwhelmed, that you remember having a really negative experience. And what were the thoughts in your mind that you picked up from that? Now, it was my dad. And my dad was not sitting there saying, you don't measure up, kid. He never said that. But I picked up somewhere in that conversation, those lies. Does that make sense? And so you go back and go, what were the thoughts that actually came from that circumstance? And you write those out. And then when you have them all down, and I would just say, take five circumstances. You'll see a theme. And there may be some I'm helpless or some I'm unlovable, but you're going to go, oh, gosh, mine's worth. Like, that's the one I see. And so just. I would just say write those out. It shouldn't take up more than one page of paper. And I just. I like a mind map. I like to just draw it out like this circumstance and then list underneath. These are the thoughts I have this circumstance. These are the thoughts I have. And then just, you know, look it up and see, because it really is. It is kind of a. You know, I realize evil loves to not be noticed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if. If it were easy, if you could just spot it, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's. It's not surprising. It's hard to find it because it's the air we breathe, it's the way we think. You barely notice that you breathe and you barely notice that you think these things. It's just part of you. And so parsing it out does take a little bit of work.

[A]

Yeah. Because I mean, the enemy operates in darkness. He is darkness, he is hiddenness, he is secrecy, he is lies. And that's lies fester in the darkness. And so it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort on our parts to say, I mean, like you were speaking to. You can't change what you don't identify what you don't know. And so taking the time to search it out and having people in your life, even to be like, do you recognize any patterns, like in the words I'm saying and the actions that I'm taking, taking. Because that is, there's a root to that, which is a belief system, which is a thought life, you know, and.

[B]

It'S a belief system that's good.

[A]

Yeah. And it starts there. But a lot of times we just don't take the time, like you said to whether it's journal it out and ask those questions, ask other people, confess those things and start to notice the patterns in order to, you know, effectively change it. And I want to speak to one other thing too, as we wrap up this idea of like spiritual authority. I was scrolling on social media the other day and I just thought this was really interesting. You may have saw this video too, but it was this ex Satanist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did you see this video?

[B]

I was thinking about this. I'm so glad you're gonna share.

[A]

Okay. I was thinking it too. The whole time you're sharing, I was like, this is really cool. And maybe those watching you may have seen the video. Maybe, maybe you haven't. But it was this video of this girl who was an ex Satanist talking, and she was talking about how when she was a Satanist and she was literally trying to curse Christians and she was going after Christians like her and this group of people, like, their job was literally to find Christians, curse them and like bring harm upon them. It's crazy. It was wild hearing her talk about this. And I think a lot of times as Christians, we just go beep bopping around thinking, oh. And it's like, guys, we are in a spiritual war and we don't realize.

[B]

If you're an enemy, that's very strategic.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're scheming, scheming 24 7.

[A]

They're fighting you 24 7. And if you're not fighting back, then who do you think's winning? Like, who do you think's winning? And so anyway, she was talking about how their goal would be to you know, to go out and to disrupt Christians, hurt Christians. But she said one thing I noticed that we would get so frustrated by and so irritated by. And the demons would hate. She literally said the demons would hate this. She said that whenever we would come in contact with a Christian who was continuously praying, we could not touch them, we could not lay a hand on them, we could not curse them, we could not come against them. There was something about. She said. I saw this, like, I can't remember what she said.

[B]

It was like a blue bubble. Yeah, it's like a blue dome.

[A]

Yeah, like a blue dome that would come around them. And it was like this form of protection that if they were continuously praying, we could not come against them. And it literally sends chills down my body because I think we so often think about our prayer life as, like, before meals, before bed. It's not that big of a deal. We do it on Sunday mornings, and it's like we don't understand the power of prayer and the war that we're in.

[B]

And the authority that we have, I have seen. So right now, we're. We're leading this gathering. We're trying to bring together the entire global church. It's an audacious thought.

[A]

Tell them a snap. Yeah.

[B]

So gather 25 is March 1, 2025, and we're inviting every person that loves Jesus to come together for one day to pray, to worship, to repent, and to commission every person that loves Jesus to reach the lost. If 2.5 billion people that say they love Jesus actually were unleashed to go reach the world, there's only 5.5 billion that don't believe in Jesus. So we win. Like, we are the greatest movement on earth. We forget it. We feel like we're shrinking. We feel like the church is dying. And I'm like, no, it's not. Across the world, the church is thriving, including in the US which we know because of unite, we are watching the next generation come to Jesus. So you can't tell me it's dying. You can't tell me it's shrinking. Like, I get it. There's a lot of darkness, but the light gets brighter and darkness. And so for 25 hours, we're going to come together, we're going to pray and ask God to move through us. It'll be beautiful. Every age, every denomination, every country, everywhere. It's wild. We're going live from every continent. So that's happening. Well, of course Satan would hate this plan. Like, this would be a thing he would hate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so we've had these people that from the moment they heard it, they felt called to pray at 5:55am every morning on Zoom. So they get on five days a week and they pray for this and for us. And I specifically, there was another group that said, we want to pray just for your family. So I send this small group prayer request and I just, I receive all that. I'm like, yes, please help. I know we're signing up for ATT and ck. I have watched my. I mean, this will just make me weep. My son, who two doctors said this looks like colon cancer, who's 20 something, young, healthy guy, and it was, I mean, it was bad. And we were all like, we had our hands on him. We had everybody praying for him. He went in for the final test and they were like, it's perfect. Like, you have nothing wrong. And he's never had a problem. And so it was months of the worst symptoms you can imagine. And now he's, he's healed. I have watched another one of my kids struggle with something, everybody praying. And I am watching that kid now lead a Bible study with his peers through Ecclesiastes like he was not there. And I'm not saying that that always happens, but it can. And there are still on my little list. There are still things that have not been answered. But I know with 100% certainty those are a direct result of prayer. I know it. I know that my family is under attack. I know that prayer is protecting us, that it is fighting back the darkness. And you cannot tell me otherwise. You cannot tell me it's a coincidence. You cannot tell me, oh, he probably. There was probably nothing wrong. You can't tell me that. And the doctors say that the doctors are like. And Connor said, all these people prayed for me. And one doctor was like, you were healed. Like there's not another explanation. So it, it doesn't always work out that way. I know it. But when we're fighting dark cosmic powers, I don't think that was God's plan for that man. Like my, my son. I do not believe that there are times that, that God can use these things for good, but there are times we have to fight back and believe and push back the darkness. And so I'm just believing in prayer more than I ever have. And it's like, let's go down believing. I mean, if you're out there right now and you're going, I've been praying for this thing forever. Have you asked 10, 20, 30, 100 people to pray with you? And I Know, it's not about the number, because it's about the faith. But. And even then, evil, this world has fallen and God is going to use it all and we're all going to die. We're all. Lots of things cannot work out on this side of heaven. Yeah, that is not your problem. That is not a faith problem. Like, that's just the way it is. But have you fought with those things? Those are weapons we can use. And so fight with those things. Fight back and ask people to pray and fight back with you. I don't understand at all. I don't understand suffering. I don't know why he heals some and doesn't others, but I do know that he can and that we're crazy not to try and defy that.

[A]

Amen. And it talks about in James 5, like, where two or three are gathered, so there he will be. And the prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. And so realizing that there is great power in number and there is great power in prayer, and that God listens and he wants to move. And sometimes he moves in ways that we don't understand. It says that his ways are higher, his thoughts are higher. It doesn't always align with our wants and our will, because it aligns with his will. But it doesn't mean that it's not creating something. Because what the enemy meant for harm, God will use for good. And so whether it's what we think should happen or not, you know, God will use it. And he wants. He wants his people. It talks about in, I think it's Second Chronicles, like, if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face, I will hear from heaven. I will heal their land. And so we look at our land today, we look at our people today. We look at our world today. And it can feel so hopeless, dark, confusing, like, God, what are you here? Are you moving? Do you see the pain? Do you see the problems? And he's like, and what are you gonna do about it?

[B]

And Maddie, like, what if every single person listening, I mean, the thousands and thousands and thousands of them listening, began to get on their knees, like, physically get on their knees and ask God to move, to bless our land, to push back the darkness. Like that is going to change things. Do you think he likes us? He loves us? Do you not think that if his kids are begging him to move that he won't move? I mean, this is the story of your mom. Like, she begged God for this generation. She begged God for this generation. And that's why we're experiencing the fruit is she and so many others just have prayed their guts out for this generation, and he's coming for them. And so we have to believe we can turn the heart of God. I think there have been so many times in my life I've doubted it. But he promises it.

[A]

He does, and it's so good. And your faith can move his heart. I mean, we see that in the Gospels. We see. I mean, you want to know what God thinks about. You look at the life of Jesus and you see his interactions with people. And I mean, I've been in the Gospels lately, literally going through Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and you see again and again, like, Jesus, look, daughter, your faith has healed you, daughter. Your faith has saved you, daughter. Like, may it be done to you as you believed. And it's like, what does our faith look like? What are we believing? Do we believe that God can do what he says he can do? Do we believe that he is the God of the impossible? And it's like, what if, you know, what if he moves and answers prayers based on your level of faith? And it's like, that's not necessarily the case. He's sovereign. But it's like.

[B]

But what if it is?

[A]

Like, yeah, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I just. I want to go down fighting hard. I want to go down believing God. I want to go down, like, if. If it's. If he doesn't answer, you know, doing this thing right now with Gather, it's so risky. I mean, we're being so brave. I tell my team all the time, I'm like, we're like Gideon's little bitty army. Like, just, let's gather the world, you know, And. And I'm like, but I don't. Like, whatever happens, I love that we said yes. And the results are up to Him. Like, we don't have to feel stressed. We just. We showed up and we said, yes, sir. And he loves to do things that don't make sense. And so I just. I think what I pray is just, I'm going to bet on him. I'm going to push everything I've got in on that, and then I'll receive what he, you know, he is in control. So if. If hardship is what I have in my life, which certainly there are, again, lots of unanswered prayer and lots of hardship, if that is what is in my life, then I receive that because God promises a lot of good for that. Like, there's a lot of good in the midst of suffering. So we can trust that character and hope and perseverance and all these things are growing in us if we are not spared suffering. So you receive it, but you also just. I think God loves to surprise us and he loves us to believe that he could and that he can do anything. And so, you know, I think back, this is a crazy story, but I think back to. There was a girl recently, not that recently, but a few years ago, whose daughter died. Do you remember this? And she had everybody pray that she would be raised back from the dead.

[A]

I don't know if I remember this.

[B]

Okay. It was pretty big and a lot of Christians had opinions about it and, and she prayed it for a whole week. Like she and her husband like, asked the Internet to pray that her little three year old would be raised from the dead. And I mean, as you can imagine, everybody judged it. Everybody. And you know, after three days, four days, you know, you go, okay, you know, somebody helping them process this, like, they need to work through this. This probably isn't happening. And it didn't happen, of course, or everybody would know about it. But I've never forgotten it because I think our faith is counted to us as righteousness. And she was crazy. I mean, there had to be times she felt embarrassed about what she did. And yet I've never forgotten it. And not because he did or didn't raise him from the dead, but because he could have. Yeah, somebody was crazy enough to believe it. And again, I'm not, I'm not a proponent of that or how that went down, but I am, I am in awe. And I respect their faith because I'd rather be embarrassed. I'd rather be the fool with a huge faith that thought God could, you know, and I don't think, I don't think she's a fool because the truth is that child is already raised from the dead. That child is already with God and full and whole like that. It's. She's not a fool. It's true. It didn't happen in the way she wanted on earth, but. But it did happen. And, and so I just think, put your chips in, like, be the fool.

[A]

So good. I love that. And just to wrap up this idea of, of prayer and even how it can tie together with our thought, life and, and overcoming these toxic thoughts and these looping thoughts, you know, it talks about in Philippians 4. It's a really good passage for those of you listening and watching to go read. But it's just talking about, like, how when we are anxious it's like, don't be anxious about anything, but instead, you know, pray. Pray about everything. Don't be anxious about anything. Instead, pray about everything. And so it's like we have this option. It's like we can sit here and we can be anxious about many things, or instead, we can take it before God, give it to God and pray about everything. We can pray about everything we're thinking. We can pray about everything we're going through. We can pray about everything that's weighing us down and holding us down. He says, come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest for your soul. Like, come. He wants us to come to him. He wants us to come before him and say, this is what's heavy on my heart right now. And the crazy, amazing, beautiful thing is that Hebrews 4:15, we have a God who understands and who empathizes. It's not this God who's like. Because I think a lot of times we're like, God, you don't get my struggles. You don't get. Get my pain. You don't get my problems. You don't get what I'm going through. And he's like, yes, I do. Like, yes, I do. I empathize with you and your weakness. I've been through it all, yet I didn't sin. I lived a perfect life, you know, to give you life. And I just want to encourage those who, you know, when you've heard us talk about this for the last 30, 45 minutes, prayer is so powerful. And when you're having these anxious, looping.

[B]

Negative, toxic thoughts, it's a great way to interrupt.

[A]

It is a great way to interrupt.

[B]

It's the way God has called us to interrupt it first and fastest. And. And it's crazy. You. It's hard to believe a negative and a positive thought at the exact same time. You can't. So when you interrupt it with God, I trust you. There's. There is an exhale that happens. But we've got to be people that actually form words to God, not just. Yeah, I remember a girl one time saying to me, like, I've been praying about this. I've been praying about this. I was like, so when exactly and where? And she was like, all the time. And I was like, I know. I know you think about it all the time, but when have you, like, formed words to God? She got quiet because we put thinking and praying hand in hand. So if we've been thinking it a lot, it's like we've Been praying, and it's like, yeah, that's not the same thing.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

Prayer is turning from ourselves to God and saying help. And so, you know, just be sure that you're. You're actually forming words to God and not just stewing.

[A]

No. Yeah. I encourage my listeners all the time. I'm like, pray out loud.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It changed my life. It was really weird and awkward at first. It was. I do it in the car, like, so God, like, you know, my favorite color's blue. And it was weird at first, but then it's like. Then all of a sudden, I couldn't stop. And it wasn't just me talking. It was me listening to it. It was me abiding. It was me enjoying his presence. It was. It was intimate. It was conversational. And it just. It does. It changes everything. And I love that you said you can't. It's impossible to think a positive and negative thing at the same time, because it is true. It's like when we pray, and I've even seen this in marriage. It's so funny. And maybe you can relate. It's like I've had moments where I literally want to bite Grant's head off. And I'm like, I'm going to lose my mind. And instead of getting into this fight or spiraling into this, because I can be the same way. It's like, then I can spiral negative thoughts about myself or about my marriage or about whatever it may be. And instead, if I take that Philippians 4 verse seriously, and instead I pray and I present it before the Lord, and I take it before the Lord, the craziest thing happens. I can't stay mad. I can't stay. I can't stay negative. It's like my whole posture changes, and I. And I go from God. I'm so angry, and I don't understand to, like, man. Lord, help me to love my husband the way you call me to love him. Like, help me to see people the way you call me to see people. Help me to deny myself, to crucify my flesh, to pick up my cross, to follow you, to lose my life for the sake of the gospel. And it's like, it changes everything.

[B]

It does. And I just love that he does not leave us as orphans. That he is. Wants to be a father. He wants to walk through this with us, with the spirit, with his word, with other people helping us. Like, that's how he wants his life to go. And. And we miss all that. And then we are so confused. Why we're stuck and why we. You know. And again, I'm not. We should say this. There are times that, because of the fall, mental health is real. Like, there's a. There's a mental health struggle that. That needs help, that you need to talk to somebody. You need to talk to a counselor or a doctor. That's real. That's part of the brokenness of our bodies and our minds. But even then, what I say is, even then, all of this works. Like, it will help. It's not going to hurt. It's. It's going to help. And so, no, we cannot snap our fingers and pray, and all of a sudden, we don't struggle with anxiety or depression. But it's these small steps. Any counselor will tell you it's not just medicine. You've got to turn your mind. It's Romans 8. It's that you fix your mind on the flesh and it leads to sin and death. Fix your mind on the spirit, the things of the spirit, everything you just named. Like, living in such a way that we are turning the other cheek, that we are laying down our lives. These are things that actually cause less anxiety.

[A]

Crazy, huh?

[B]

You know, I mean, it's so funny. You think, turn the other cheek, that's the hardest thing in the world. I'm like, yeah, until you do it. And then it's like, wow, freedom.

[A]

Freedom.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, I'm not mad anymore. It's just, okay, you can hurt me. You really can't, but you can try. And those kind of radical things scripture say actually help with anxiety and depression. Not cure it necessarily if it's a chemical issue, but it certainly helps.

[A]

I actually did a podcast with Dr. Amen, and he. He was talking about one of the biggest, like, celebrities he's ever, you know, worked with. And he literally was like, his faith saved him. He lit. I mean, this is a brain doctor, a psychiatrist.

[B]

It was Justin Bieber. I'm just kidding. I don't know.

[A]

And he was like, his faith saved him. Yeah. And I was like, I mean, isn't that why. I mean. And again, yes. I never want to belittle, like, a circumstance or a trauma or an anxiety or a mental, like. And what you're saying is there is so much power. Like, how much. Have. Have we prayed about it as much as we've talked to our therapist about it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Have we prayed about it as much as we've complained about it to our spouse or our girlfriends? Have we.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Have we prayed about it and truly, like, gotten on our knees and believed with great faith that God can deliver us and heal us in the same way that he created us and. And saved us. Have we actually prayed with that kind of faith for God to heal us? You know, and I think it's. It's a lot easier for us to turn to natural solutions. And so I just want to continue to encourage again, not to belittle it. Great, go to a therapist. Great. Do the things.

[B]

But just make sure that on the front lines of spiritual life, you are fighting well and that you're believing that that helps, because it does. Again, this. The weapons of that Corinthians is talking about are the people of God, the word of God, the spirit of God, all of which you accept best through prayer. So that being the foundation of all of it, it isn't necessarily therapy. Now the people of God can be, again, wisdom through all of that. I think some things are very complicated world. It is helpful to have people help us untangle things. But, yeah, those are the. The weapons that we've been given that destroy stronghold. Strongholds.

[A]

Okay, we're wrapping up here. This is literally. I could talk to you for hours. I wish this podcast could be four hours long. I want to wrap up quickly with just touching on emotions. You wrote a book called untangle your emotions. And one of the greatest ways you have helped me in my journey with the Lord and in just becoming the woman of God that God has called me to be, is learning how to not run from my emot. Not even try to fix my emotions, but to acknowledge them, to feel them, to recognize that they're there. And I want to talk about that with you because I mentioned this at the beginning of the podcast of just the time I looked at you, and I was like, I'm scared of my feelings. Like, I'm scared to feel. I'm scared to feel like I'm out of control or whatever it may be. And you've said this, but you said feelings are not meant to be fixed, they're meant to be felt. And I've ever forgotten that. I think you talk about that in your book. And so I just want to touch on a little bit of. For those listening, how can they untangle their emotions and all the things they're feeling? And how do we. How can we be emotionally healthy according to scripture?

[B]

Yeah, well, after get out of your head did so well, it was during COVID and it just blew up. And I stand by every word that book says. I mean, I love it. I agree with it. I use those principles in my life daily. However, there are times that it feels like we cannot get over a negative, toxic thing. And I would just say we can't be afraid of that. That lots of times emotions are leading us to work on things, to pay attention to things that we may not have been paying attention to, that we need to. And so we can't be totally afraid of them and push them away. Theologically, we are in a world that is so driven by their emotions that the church has responded by saying emotions are dangerous. Emotions. Don't feel them, don't listen to them. You know, never follow your feelings. And I agree with that last part because they make a terrible driver. Right. We cannot, emotions are not, should not be the decision making force in our life, life. However, we should listen to our feelings. God gave us our feelings. God created feelings. God feels. You look at God through Genesis to Revelation, he is a big feeling. God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, I studied it all. They feel a lot. It's undeniable. When you start reading scripture in that way, you're like, golly, they are. They're way more emotional than the most emotional person you've ever met. Yeah, but they do not sin, right? So they, you know, and that's where scripture will say, in your anger, do not sin. Which is, which is code for it is possible to feel anger and not sin. And that feeling, anger isn't the sin. So if we back it up and take each emotion, they actually serve a great purpose in our life. Can you imagine walking through, let's take it the extreme, the loss of a child without sadness? I mean, you'd explode, right? You'd absolutely explain explode. Or you'd be addicted to something. Grief, sadness serves a purpose in the life of someone that is walking through something difficult. Where we find ourselves today is that the world is more complicated and difficult than it's ever been. We are carrying the suffering of so many people. I mean, right now, you know, we're carrying two wars that are happening and those images and the things that we feel for people that are in those situations. We feel a lot of things, really big, because we're in a very complicated world. So when people are sad and they don't know why, I'm not ever surprised. I'm like, the world feels really sad right now. Feels like we're hit with sadness every five minutes with something. So I just think, of course we feel sad. Of course. When you're walking through the loss of a friendship because of a conflict and you've done everything you can and you can't shake it. And you just feel so devastated. Of course you feel sad. You know, that is God given reaction. Like that is how we are meant to process. And so I would just say to the person that feels like, what's the point? Like, that was me. I didn't want to feel sadness. So what's the point? Point. I would just say the point is that when you. And I'm going to do this from a scientific. And then I'll. I'll take the scripture. When you mourn and not mourn alone, but mourn with someone. When you cry, when you are sad and you bring someone into it in community, there are parts of your brain that heal. They can show it on screens, neural pathways being built, rebuilt. And then the Bible makes more sense when hundreds of years prior to the brain scientists discovering this, he says in scripture, mourn with those who mourn. There are seasons for mourning and there are seasons for rejoicing. So if we don't demonize it and we just say, what's the purpose that it can serve? Let me tell you the greatest purpose. I'll keep this super short. To connect with other people and to connect with God. If you feel like, why don't I have good friends? Why do I feel like my relationships are shallow? Why do I feel like I don't want to pray? And I don't, I don't really see the purpose in prayer. When is the last time you cried with someone or cried with God? Because my relationship, if you look at the highs and the lows of just my relationship with God, not my life. The low point of my life and the high point of my relationship with God is about always the same. I'm talking in the car, more to him. Yeah, I'm on my bathroom floor crying. I'm calling out to God. I'm texting my friends and saying, what are y'all doing right now? Can we get together right now? Like, I've, I'm. I'm spiraling, I'm spinning. I need help. Those are the points that reach out. Those are the points that I connect most deeply with other people in God. So I guess that's my sales pitch. If you're someone who thinks, thinks I don't see the purpose, try it. Like, try being vulnerable. Try sharing your anger, your fear, your sadness with somebody and first with God and tell him, it's so funny. If we keep thinking that our emotions are sin, that like takes out most of my prayer life. I don't even know what you would talk to him. About, you know, it's like. It's like that's what he wanted. Why he loved David so much is David was emotional like he is. He. He brought him everything. He brought him every feeling, every thought. He brought him shame. He brought him fear. He brought him. He brought him anger. He was so angry all the time, you know, and so. And you go, that's in. It all ended up in the Bible. Why? Yeah, because it's a model for how we relate to God and also how we relate to each other.

[A]

And the Psalms. You guys go. Go read the Psalms. You see. You see David wrestling, and he always.

[B]

Comes back to truth.

[A]

And he does.

[B]

Which is what I call people, too. Like, you're not going to just spiral with your emotions and never come back to truth. The biblical way to process our emotions is to do it in community and to do it with our Bibles, to remember what is true. So we encourage each other, as long as it is called today, so that we are not hardened by sin's deceitfulness. Not dealing with your emotions hardens your sin, hardens your heart to sense deceitfulness.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because you have no courage. You have no body speaking into your life and bringing health and wholeness. I mean, we are meant to hear each other's struggle and speak life and encouragement and hope and remind each other of the truth over and over again.

[A]

Oh, that's so good. Literally, so good. I wish we could keep going. And I'm just gonna have to have you back on the podcast. I love you because there's so many. So many more questions I could ask you and thoughts that I have, but we need to go. Jenny has a flight to catch. Jenny has a flight to catch. And I just am truly so, so grateful that I have you in my life. And this. This who you're seeing on this podcast right now, listening to her, this is who I get in her living room at coffee. I mean, truly this passionate, this caring, this loving, this truthful. And I'm so grateful that you have met with grace and with truth, that you have called out greatness in me and in my husband. You and your husband have called that out in us. And you just. You believe in us. And I'm so grateful for you.

[B]

I do believe in you. And I want to say something to everybody listening, okay. You are following someone that is following after Christ in their daily life. I get on a plane with Maddie. She's got her Bible and her journal sitting there on her little airplane tray. There's not even room. And she is. She is daily following Jesus. And I just am proud of you. And I want people to know that. That this isn't a show to you. You could be doing anything in Hollywood. You could. You could go do anything. And maybe someday you will. But today you have chosen to give God away to people, and that is your passion and that is your heart. And I just. I'm just so proud of you, and I'm so grateful for you. And if you're listening and you have kids like Set, she is trustworthy. Like, you can trust her. And if she ever tries to go off the rails, I will be.

[A]

She will call me out.

[B]

I will get her.

[A]

She will call me out. She is not afraid to call me. And that's why I love her so much. I looked at you, and I remember being like, I. I've prayed literally day and night for a mentor like you in my life because I want someone to call me out, and I want someone to call me higher. And I want someone that I respect so much how they live their life for Jesus that I'm like, I want to. I want to take from that. I want to pull from that just by being a part of your world. And I have done that, and I'm so grateful for that. So you guys go and follow Jenny. Go and follow gather25. Join it. Be a part of it. Let them know again how they can.

[B]

Find gather25.com and you click, I'm in. And we will send you everything you need, but we want all of you to come, everybody you know to come. So help us spread the word.

[A]

Yes. And I'll include that link wherever you're watching this or however you're listening to this. And be sure to go and check out the books we talked about that she's written. They've helped me, they've mentored me and so many other people. I literally was at an event with her, and even, like, a boy came running up and he was like, ginny, this book has changed my life. So it's not just for girls. Guys and girls.

[B]

Yeah, Lots of boys.

[A]

Literally changing lives. And so be sure to go and check those out. I'll link those as well. But we just love you, Jenny. You're part of the true crew now, and we love you guys. And so, as always, be sure to stay. You stay true.

[B]

We love.