← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
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- [00:00]
A
How did you learn to heal you and forgive you when maybe you had shame over something that you had done?
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B
Are you choosing the wrong people over and over again? Are you actually not even letting yourself have a real shot at love because you're self sabotaging.
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A
How do you love when you've been hurt?
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B
God, I believe you can do great things. But like, for me, are you sure? For me, are you sure you can even trust me? Because I can't.
- [00:23]
A
You're, like, afraid to let go, even though you know there's so much more when you're struggling to move forward and you feel like hurt and pain is your destiny and your lot right now. Just remember that Jesus is the the one we turn to. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and we have on the stage who podcast for the first time ever? Christian. My cousin. She's my cousin.
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B
First cousin.
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A
Yeah. People, like, don't know this about us.
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B
They really don't.
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A
Yeah. I wish they were shocked because our whole growing up, everyone thought we looked so much alike.
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B
Yeah. But I guess. I guess I have people come up to me and they're like, I look just like your cousin Maddie. And he's like, do I look like my cousin?
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A
Do I look like my cousin? And then our sisters look alike.
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B
Yes.
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A
And so it's kind of funny because it's like, our sisters look alike. We look alike. I don't really know what happened. We just.
- [01:30]
B
We just pretty much made people believe or we told ourselves that we were sisters. Yeah, we did. Growing up, we would do. I don't know if you remember this, but we would switch shoes. Like, I would wear one of Maddie's. She's wear one of mine. And we're like, yeah. We're like two peas in a pot.
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A
We thought we were so cool. We would, like, call in radio stations and, like, I don't even know. I have the most vivid memory at your mom's house of us, like, washing a car and calling a radio station. I don't know why I'm like, what? What were we doing? And we were like, good parenting.
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B
I need to wash my car, girls.
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A
Yeah. So get out there. We have the time of our lives.
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B
We can do that with our girls soon. Too. True.
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A
You guys. I know because. So she just had her. Well, I guess she's four months now.
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B
Three months.
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A
Three months. Three months. Oh, my gosh.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Don't give her four yet. She's three months. Tatum. And then I'm about to have my baby girl and named name is. We haven't shared that yet. But they're going to be four months apart, which is so crazy because I'm like, any day now, guys. I mean, literally any day now. And also it's like Valentine's Day when they're watching this, basically. So that's why we're in pink and red. I said wear red or pink because it's the love week. But we're actually going to be talking about, well, we're going to talk about love, but we're going to really talk a lot about, like, how do you love when you've been hurt, when you've been let down, how do you continue to love and put your heart out there and hope again? Forgive, heal. All the things were going there. Christian wrote this amazing book, break up with what broke you broke. Wait, yeah. Break up with what broke you. And you guys, this book is so good. I've like read through the whole entire thing and actually wrote the foreword and my little names up there. But it's so good. So you guys go and check that out and we're going to be talking about some of the things that are in this book, like how to forgive, how to heal, how to break free from things that are breaking us and hurting us, and how to love again and hope again. So I'm so excited about today's conversation, but I'm just excited that you're on the podcast.
- [03:43]
B
It was. It's so fun. I mean, I really just wanted to hang out with you. Really.
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A
This is like our time to have quality time.
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B
Thank you guys for joining our hangout.
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A
And she was texting me and she was like, this will probably be the last time that I see you before you have a baby. Which is crazy because the next time I see her, I mean, you have.
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B
A little baby, the world's just gonna to be so enlarged and I can't talk about it much because I will start crying again.
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A
We already got a little teary eyed right before with the prayer, but she's been so helpful with. I've asked you so many questions and just like preparing for motherhood, it's scary. You're like stepping into a whole new life and world and there's so much information out there and so you can feel so overwhelmed and bombarded and just like, you're not ready, you're not prepared. And anytime I have like something I'm scared about or like a question, I'm like, Christian, she's like, you're Fine.
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B
But I've been through that, so I can tell you.
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A
Yeah, she's been there twice. She also. She has.
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B
Well, I mean, I was the mom. Like, am I doing this wrong?
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A
Yeah. Well, we all have to go to that stage. We have to go through the stage of like, what the heck am I doing? And I'll probably go through it like, 20 more times. I'm sure once she's here and I'm like, even going through postpartum, I'm be like, S.O.S. what do I. Why is my body doing this?
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B
That could be a whole. But maybe after you have baby new episode on that.
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A
Yes.
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B
No one talks about.
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A
No, no. There's even things in pregnancy. I was literally just saying this earlier. Like, there's even things in pregnancy that I feel like I was not prepared for. I was like, wow, I was not. And just. I guess everyone's is so different. But anyway, so Christian is an author and she also has her own podcast if you want to tell them a little bit about it. Yeah, I've been on that podcast, too, twice.
- [05:22]
B
So if you want to jump after this episode, watch the. And you can jump over. Listen to Maddie on the Dear Future Husband podcast, where essentially, I just really felt my singleness. I'm not doing this right. I need God to give me wisdom and singleness and dating and all of it. And, like, I really want to pray for my future husband. And so out of that was birthed a community and like a method that I did and now a podcast, which is. It's great to get to walk alongside other women and then walk alongside other women and just that arm stretching arm. And I love seeing that grow. And yeah, thank you for sharing your wisdom with that community.
- [05:58]
A
No, I. I love it. I love what you're doing, and it's so cool because like I said, we've seen each other through so much. And so I've seen Christian through some relationships. She's seen me through some relationships and some breakups and some really hard and low moments. And then of course, we got to walk each other through the best moment of finding our person and find out.
- [06:20]
B
You'Re saying walk each other down the aisle.
- [06:21]
A
Oh, we have a little. Nope, we didn't do that. But we weren't in each other's legs. We were standing up there with each other. But yeah, we. We really have. We've seen each other through. Through a lot. And so I would love for you to share a little bit about your book and a little bit about your story when it comes to Love relationships. And what got you into the Dear Future Husband podcast and writing this book and all the things.
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B
Yeah. Oh, where do I start?
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A
You're like the relationships guru.
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B
Well, it kind of starts with the first words of the book, the breakup, and going through which, I mean, you know, all these details, but I went through college, dated two very different guys, and one of them was, like, swoon worthy, but didn't. Didn't know the Lord, you know, and did not. You're not equally yoked. I'm just going to say right here, right now, you're going uphill in neutral. And then I dated someone that loved the Lord and was a great guy, but I didn't have. First of all, I had a lot of things I still needed to work on. You shared this one of your last podcast episodes that I got to listen in on with Grant. But we went through a small group in college, and it really just illuminated to me how the Word needs to be active in our lives. It's not just a relationship with God where he loves us, but we have to love him back. And when we do, it really changes so much within how we see ourselves, how we're able to act. And so I went through some healing with that, but went through a second relationship where I was just like, oh, this person's a Christian. And then you just say, hey, you're my person. We're gonna make this work. But I didn't realize, like, how much intentionality really goes into our pairing and our partner. And, like, what the Lord has illuminated within you. And if he puts you with someone, it's not just, okay, you're group one, you're group two. Y'all match up like, it's truly intentional. And there's prayer that goes into that, so you're ready. There's prayer that goes into that, so he's ready. And then the prayer to find each other, the, you know, the union and the wisdom and just, like, Holy Spirit moments that I would say you want, you want in your love story, but you also need to find that person to make a marriage last, to get through the first year of marriage.
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A
First year of marriage. Oh, my goodness.
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B
That coupling, like, you just. You died of flesh all over again in a new way. So I'm of the keen belief that prayer has so much power within it, and that's not devoid of getting to be in our relationships, too. So break up with what broke you was kind of my recollection of breaking up with, you know, things I'd done to myself, things that other people had done to me and really just shedding everything that, you know, the enemy tries to kill still and destroy. And I wanted to pull the rug out from underneath him and expose him for his lies, expose him for things that I was believing about myself and, you know, just break up with him, say good riddance and move on to what God had for me and not settle for anything relationally or also just in my identity. So that's really where I started on my author journey. And from there, the Dear Future Husband podcast again, I just shared after, you know, I went through all that healing journey, cleared up some stuff myself, met my incredible husband. I shared what I did during my singleness with our friend mp. We both got husband's bibles.
- [09:37]
A
Oh, yeah.
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B
And we just started praying over those, Writing letters to each other's husbands, writing letters to our husbands. And it was the most life changing thing in my singleness because I remembered up to the point. And I'm skipping a lot of this because I want to honor your time and talk more on the subject you introduce. But I remember when I did first interact with Arden, he sent me a message on my phone and I threw my phone in the back of my car and I was like, God, listen. You know, I'm messy in relationships and I start looking at his profiles like crap. He's cute. Oh, he loves Jesus. And then I had heard of his mom before. Her name is Lisa Bevere. She's an incredible just minister. And I was like, God, I can't. I can't mess this one up. Like, if I mess up this and she's an amazing woman of God, like, I'm gonna be excommunicated from heaven from the dating scene. Like, I, I just can't do this. I said, I'm only gonna go out with him if he's my future husband. And that might sound a little like, crazy or legalistic to some people, but I was just like, I'm not good at dating. I need you to walk me through this every step of the way, even from the very first date. And so, yeah, it was a fun time of learning a lot about myself and God and praying for my future husband. And I've seen so much come to fruition in the most amazing details and then also just most provision. Like, we walk out some of the things that seem easy or blessed in our marriage now, I think because of our time praying for each other. So that is my spiel. And I don't even know if I answered your question. No.
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A
So good. And you guys had Also a really short engagement, and you dated even less than we did. But your engagement, I think, was a little bit longer than ours.
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B
Yeah, we. We knew each other for seven months before we were married.
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A
Just seven months. You long baby. When you know, you know.
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B
And that's a perfect. This is the holy number. Right?
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A
So number of completion. Yeah, we were 10 from 10 months from the moment that we met to getting married. But we dated for seven, and then we're engaged for three.
- [11:34]
B
I remember when we. We went on a little date ourselves, and you're like, am I on a blind date this weekend? Oh, yeah, that was fun. And here we are.
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A
Yeah. That's so crazy. But I love. I. I love one thing that you said that I wanted to. To point out really quick as we're jumping into this topic that you were talking about. You really had to learn how to love you in a godly way. Like, you had to learn how to deal with a lot of the things that were stealing from you, a lot of the lies that you believed and a lot of the hurts that you had been through. And I think for a lot of people listening, their relationships suffer because they haven't taken the time to heal themselves. And so they're entering into relationships from this place of already being broken and hoping someone else can heal them or restore them, you know, or coming into it from a place of lack, hoping that someone else can meet their need and make them feel more abundant and whole again. And because of that, you know, that's where soul ties happen. We compromise our convictions. Relationships end in really, really bad heartbreak. And I want to hear from you, like, what would you tell the person who, you know, has had that situation happen again and again, and the relationships continue to fail, but if they really were to take a step back, they would realize, oh, maybe it is me, and there's some things that I need to work on. What would be your advice of how someone can learn to love themselves the way that God calls us, to honor ourselves and value ourselves?
- [13:10]
B
Yeah. I mean, you're hitting the nail right on the head. Everything within romantic love today is, you know, you complete me. I'm this missing piece, and I'm aware of flaws, but the solution is to be paired with someone else. And, like, I feel less than because someone's not telling me I'm good enough. And it's really not helpful if we're honest for our relationship, because if you're putting that much weight, first of all, on someone else, they are going to fall short at some point. And you're not gonna be able to give the love that you so eagerly want to to that other person because you're like, if you check my boxes, then I'll be able to check yours, but it's really not that way. You have to come from this. My cup runneth over. Moment of, well, I know who I am. I'm getting my boxes checked from my creator, and so I'm able to give that to you. And I think we know that in theory, but I almost feel like there's like the church understanding of like, God is love, I am loved, praise God. And then the, oh, there's the romance so far over here. But I think we need to actually dance more in the middle to have a good synergy between the two that goes from our head and actually touches our heart of, I don't just know this, but, like, I know it within my being. And if you're in that, that space of, well, goodness, my heart is broken. I don't know how I'm gonna love after I've been through hurt. I think the best thing we can do is start with why. Like, why is your heart broken? Are you choosing the wrong people over and over again? Are you actually not even letting yourself have a real shot at love because you're self sabotaging? Like, there's so many different areas and there's so much power within the question of why and taking responsibility. I love something my husband says that when he first told it to me when we were married, I was like, that's kind of dumb. He was like, the most powerful thing you can do in a. In an instance is take responsibility. I was like, what if you're not at fault? Like, what if someone did something wrong and you're taking accountability? Then you look like you're messed up. He's like, I don't. I don't care how I look. I care if I'm powerful or not. When you take responsibility, you have power to change a circumstance. And you may not have any power of the pain that you've been through. Maybe someone's hurt you, taken advantage of you or your heart. Maybe you didn't know that someone was the wrong choice until your heart was broken. But there's power in taking responsibility of, maybe I can't change what happened to me, but I can change the choices I make next. You can change how fast you fall for someone or how much you guard your heart, or even how much you fall in love with Christ. Before you do, try to entice that romantic version of Love. So I. I think we have more power than we realize. And I want to allude to this later, too, but I think pain has more purpose than we allow it as well.
- [15:52]
A
Wow. That's so good. So true. So good. And I think for me, I can say the same thing. In my past relationships, like, there were a lot of moments where I was giving the other person way more weight, like you were saying, and just way more opportunity to define who I was and to determine my worth and my value, than rather coming into the relationship from a place of already knowing who I was, knowing that I was a daughter of the King, knowing that I am secure in him, that I don't need someone else to tell me who I am, because I know who I am. And like you were saying, from a place of where your cup runneth over. And so when you have those kinds of relationships and both of your cups are running over and both of you are already secure and both of you are in love with Jesus, they're the best relationships. Like, they're the best relationships. And. And dating is for evaluating. Like you said, we've both been in relationships where there were situations where we were dating someone who was a godly person, and we cared about them and we loved them, but, like, it wasn't the person God had for us. And there were things that, you know, whether it came down to, like, the purpose God called us to, or maybe just, like, personality and different, I don't know, just like, little things like that. But I do want to hone in on this thought before we even continue on in. In this, like, relationships conversation, because I do think that this is a really powerful moment for a lot of, especially, like, females. But anyone listening is like, how. How did you learn to heal you and forgive you when maybe you had shame over something that you had done or something that had been done to you created shame?
- [17:38]
B
Yeah, I mean, I identify so much more with the first than the latter. It's for whatever reason, good or bad, a lot easier for me to forgive someone that's hurt me than it is for me to forgive myself. And people are on either side of that category. But for me, I'm like, oh, that person's human. They made mistakes. Either I created a boundary or I forgive them. You know, I know how to go forward. But with myself, there's this keen awareness of, why did I do that? If I did that, I must have some flaws within me. I must not be lovable. I must not be able to, like, actually love people genuinely. Like, how could I do that. And I think there's just such an intimacy with the person that we were created to be that it is challenging. There's a rubber meet the road of how God can I be created in your image? And you say you love me and you have good things for me, but I, I do this. It's almost. It reminds me of Paul when he's like, I want to do the right thing, but I keep messing up. And so I think first of all, we just have to realize like we are still here on this earth. And there's this, I think people talk about this a lot, is like, well, we have our sin nature and we die to it. Are we supposed to be perfect after that? And it's like, well, we're supposed to try to be. There's no guarantee that, you know, you're not going to lose it in road rage one day, that you're not going to get upset with your husband. But like, how quick is your countenance to renew your mind and to check your heart and to apologize? And so I think the fruit of the Spirit is not perfection in your day to day walk, but it's like the awareness and the heart posture to want to be a representation of Christ. But for whatever reason, I'm better now. But for a long time it was hard for me to see how I could move forward with that. And shame was just such my, my drug of choice when it came to my mental thoughts. And I have a whole chapter of it in the book because that's what always got me stuck. It's like, okay, God, I believe you can do great things. But like, for me, are you sure? For me, are you sure you can even trust me? Because I can't. And I came to the realization as I was writing about it and just writing about how I feel, like God walked me through that. And I can't even say it was one or two things because it was such a journey. And I don't want to discredit all that he did, like in my confidence and my self esteem and my worth. But as I wrote out what that healing journey looked like and then I put it in the book and I published it. You know, it takes a year before you turn it until it's published. I was like, God, I just kind of wrote what you did for me. Is any of this legit? Like, should I have done more research? And I started looking it up and there's so much scientifically even to like what God walked me through to how our brain works. I'm like, God, thank you for healing how I see myself and even how I allow you to speak over my own thoughts. Because it's one thing to change your thinking. Maybe you are going to therapy or you're getting mentored. And I think all that's great, but at the end of the day, there's still gonna be days where you feel like crap and it's like, okay, well, who am I gonna believe? Me or the creator of the universe? I'm gonna have to lean into what you say. And in the book I coined it this way. Is Shane. Is Shane our Uncle Shane?
- [20:44]
A
We do have an Uncle Shane.
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B
Shane likes to say, no. I write that shame is an inability to separate who we are from what we've done. And I think we always in the same vein of, well, we want to say that we're so good because look at what all we've done. We also say, well, I'm so bad because look at what all I've done. But really there is a severance. And if we believe God to be true in his word and he says our sins are forgotten and they're no more, then we need to let that be true in our own lives too. It doesn't mean that you won't think of them like, I have times where I would just think of things I'd done. And especially when Arda and I were engaged and I thought, man, he deserves better than me. Or am I gonna mess this up? How can I say I wanna love you for the rest of my life, but do I trust myself to do that? Because. And I would just have to stop and say, no, God, I'm gonna trust you. I'm gonna trust that you know what you're doing in me, in our relationship. And my goodness, he's an amazing man. So I just hope I can live up to it. And you're gonna have to show me how to do that.
- [21:45]
A
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So whether you're winding down at night or having a slow morning, their sleepwear is the best there is. With Cozy Earth, you can transform your space into an elevated haven where serenity and renewal intertwine effortlessly. I'm telling you, once you try Cozy Earth's products, you will never go back. And you can go get your own Cozy Earth products by going to cozy earth.com/stay true and use my exclusive 40% off code, stay true. And if you get a post purchase, survey, say that you heard about Cozy Earth from this podcast. Create your own sanctuary with Cozy Earth. It's so, it's so true. About shame. I, I hate shame. And it's such a. A tool of the enemy. You see all the way back in the creation story, like literally the very beginning of Genesis, after the, the first. Well, I guess not the first sin because Satan committed the first sin. Second sin with humans, with Adam and Eve that we all followed after was, you know, it started with a lie which led to sin, but then what followed sin didn't stop there. It led to shame. And so a lot of times, whether it is something that we, or something that has been done to us in a sinful way, we feel that shame. We feel that need to hide like we feel that need to cover up. We feel that need to blame, whether it's we blame ourselves or we blame other people. And I, I love that you're talking about that, because I do. I think it's got so many people bound and it has so many people from, from being able to experience love, whether it be with God themselves or with other people in the way that God designed for it to be. Because it makes you, I mean, in a way it makes you hate yourself. In a way, it makes you feel like you can't trust yourself. Or in a way, it makes you really scared to love other people again, you know, in fear of being hurt by them and fear of being let down by them. And so that's why I'm really excited about this, this conversation, you know, around, you know, how do you love when you've been hurt? Maybe that hurt has been. You've hurt yourself, like you continue to hurt Yourself, you haven't forgiven yourself. You haven't been released from that shame you've been carrying. You feel like you are what you've done. And you feel like God would never give you or bless you with something good because of your track record, that you're this damaged goods person. And that is not the gospel in which we believe in, you know, and. But it is the mindset that we have to fight. Like, I've had to fight those thoughts, but. But the gospel says, you know, that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and we get to stand firm in that. And I just want to speak that over those listening who maybe do feel that right now and who are struggling to, you know, forgive yourself and into and to heal from the things that maybe that you've done. You know, something I always like to say is, I'm like, our past is our past for a reason. And, you know, what happened back there doesn't have to keep you from what God wants to do moving forward unless you let it. And you get to make that decision because honestly, you know, like, what controls your thinking? Like, you know, who controls your thinking? You do. You do. And a lot of times we just don't stop our thoughts. Like, we just kind of let, we let those thoughts like ruminate, you know, I'm no good. No one would ever want me. I'm unworthy of love. Like, why does this always happen to me? Whatever those lies are, like, we just let them ruminate and then they turn into beliefs and we enter into these relationships from that place. Okay, so you, we have talked a lot about, like moving past your past, healing from the things that you have maybe carried for yourself. Like, you didn't know if you, maybe you've had the thoughts of like, I don't know if I'll ever be able to like heal from this. I think that this is talked about a lot in scripture and because this is a truth based Jesus loving podcast, we're going to turn to some scripture and talk about some passages in scripture of just ways that we can pull from that. I think a lot of times we walk through things in life and we forget that the Bible talks about it.
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B
You know, it's like we can. There is a guidebook.
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A
Yeah, well, it's like we're like, oh, that doesn't apply. Like, that's so long ago. That doesn't apply to like what I'm feeling today in 2025. And I just, it's so not true. There's so many different references throughout scripture, Bible verses, but also people who give us a beautiful blueprint of what it looks like, of how to continue to love and trust and hope even when you've been hurt. So many of those stories, some of them that are my favorite is, like, the story of Ruth, the story of Hosea, and also a little bit about Jesus. And so we can dive into some of those things. Christian has some verses that she's going to share, too. But what I love about each of those stories is, like, no matter what they. They face circumstantially, is that they continue to trust. Like, God has a purpose in all of this. Like, there is purpose in. In this pain, whether it be heartbreak or whether it be rejection or whether it be my expectations not being met. And so you alluded to this at the beginning of the podcast, but I'd love to jump into, like, what it looks like to experience purpose in your pain and how to use your pain, the things that you've walked through that are really, really hard when it comes to love and relationships, and let God use it for a greater purpose.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk about. Those are three really great stories, which, I mean, there's no, there's not any bad stories in the Bible's pretty good when you think about it. But, yeah, that was me. I'm very internal thinking, so I'm like, oh, I'm gonna shame myself. I'm gonna internalize it. I'm just gonna, like, let myself feel this pain because, duh, I deserve it. So I can totally attest if anyone's feeling called out right now of, like, man, that's me. I'm just soaking, and I don't even want to be in this somber mode, but I can't get out of it. I feel like it's quicksand. There's so much within the Bible that can encourage us, not just from a place of, like, we'll pull yourself up, get over it. But no, like, lament. I understand what you're feeling. Like, I instantly think of the Psalms and David, how he was so quick to go there, and I think not just for the sake of being emotional, but to say, like, lord, this is all that I'm feeling, and I need to get it out to you because I can trust you, you with it. I can't hold it all in myself. And then of course, the Proverbs, too, which. Which pair with that, the wisdom. But Proverbs 15:13 says, A glad heart makes a tearful face, but by sorrow of heart, the spirit is crushed. And I think about really, like, mental health is really big right now. But heart health is also very important because we can stuff so much more away there that I think we don't realize is affecting us. But the longer we harbor it, it's like this festering where we'll see it come out in the way we treat people, the way we treat ourselves, the way we even carry. Like, our physical countenance can be changed by how much sorrow and pain we have in our heart. And something that. Or the book that really changed the way that I view pain is by C.S. lewis. It's called the Problem of Pain. And he has this quote within it where he says, God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain. It's his megaphone to rouse a deaf world. And when I read that, at first I was like, you can't say that. Like, you can't say that. We need to listen to our pain. We need to get over our pain. But I became so much more acquainted with. With feeling what I felt in a moment. Because I think once you allow yourself to go there, similar to what we see that David does, then we actually can get through it quicker.
- [30:23]
A
Wow.
- [30:24]
B
It's when we're like, oh, I feel this. I'm going to cry, but then I'm going to wipe it, like, dust myself off. And, like, I gotta be strong. I gotta be strong and, like, put on a smiley face or I need to turn to something else. Like, that's how addictions are formed. That's how we're not actually truly authentic with people. And you. You magnify that so much more. Cause you think, well, why don't people know me? Or, why is all this bad stuff happening? Well, it's the way we're handling our pain a lot of times is we're not allowing ourselves to let people in or to truly heal from things. And this is. This is a big word, but there's tikutsu. Bu. Cardiomyography is actually the term for someone can physically pass away from a broken heart.
- [31:06]
A
Wow.
- [31:07]
B
And it's very rare. Like, don't think I just went through a breakup. What are you saying? No. Like, when you have so much stress hormones coming to your heart, it actually mimics the symptoms of a heart attack.
- [31:17]
A
That's crazy.
- [31:18]
B
And you can find yourself just so overwhelmed that it can take you out or it can, like, really make you bedridden. People have been bedridden from having a broken heart. And that can be losing a loved one or it can be a simple breakup or a not so simple breakup. I don't want to throw that, that adjective of like, how dare you? We dated for four years. But it was really interesting to me learning about that because I thought, well, the heart is such a strong organ. Like, it is like the very center of our body. It provides us nurturance, it removes waste from our body, it pumps oxygen to our blood. Like, it's not a weak organ. So we really must be in this way in this day of age of taking in so many things that we let affect our heart. Like, not even just our relationships, our family, our friendships, but we let things on social media. We let people's so true expectations of who we think we are. I mean, you can attest to this.
- [32:11]
A
Like, yeah, I'm like, amen.
- [32:13]
B
Someone I don't know doesn't like me. Oh my gosh, that's breaking my heart. Like, we let so much weaken our heart that we're not actually letting our hearts be strong. So what I would encourage people with is if you're feeling a pain, one sets it out. Is this even something that you should be letting hurt your heart? And if it's not, just cast it away. But if it is something that you are truly lamenting, like, go there and lay that down at the feet of Jesus and say, like, lord, show me why. Is this because you've given me a heart for. For people and there's a strength within this that I need to feel. Is this because I'm not allowing myself to be in a rich community where people can pour into me like, I'm self sabotaging? Like, there's just power in that that I think if we are not afraid of pain, that I almost wanted to equate this to childbirth. But we're not gonna go there for you.
- [32:59]
A
Not yet.
- [33:00]
B
Not yet. Oh, circle back so much purpose within all the areas of our heart. So I think if we let our hearts do what they're meant to do, we'll find healing.
- [33:10]
A
That's so good. I've never heard of like, or I've never thought about it. Like, mental health and heart health. That's so cool. That's such a cool, like, thought because it is true. Mental health has become such a phenomena. It's been such a thing, and it is a thing. I'm not like, belittling it in any way, but I also do think you're so right. Like, there's such a big. We kind of forget about the heart health. And the Bible is so big on the heart. I mean, everything we do flows from the heart. It says in. In Proverbs 4, like, above all else, guard your heart because it will guide your life. Like, it. It doesn't actually say that, but I'm just saying, like, if you don't guard your heart, like, your life will be a. An aimless. You're just like, there's so much happening because you. Your. Your heart is like the cinder of everything that you do. Everything flows from it. And so it's so important that our heart is healthy. And I love that you. You spoke to that. That. It's so crazy because I wrote down, like, three notes for this podcast, and I wrote down that.
- [34:13]
B
C.S.
- [34:13]
A
Lewis.
- [34:14]
B
No way. No, literally, I'm like, this is why. I'm like, we're insane.
- [34:19]
A
It's so good, though. Like, it's so true. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains. I'm like, that is. It's so true. Because I look back in some of the seasons of my life that have been the most painful seasons, and I hear God the clearest. I feel God the most. And I think what you're saying is we shouldn't fear pain because a lot of times, pain produces things in us that sustain us and carry us through and build something in us. And so we can't be afraid of it, but rather, like, embrace it and let. Like, for me, when I was walking through one of, like, a. Like a really, really tough heartbreak and I was in so much pain, I remember just telling God, like, I want to feel all that I need to feel because I don't want to throw anything under the rug that's going to later come up and haunt me in a future relationship or keep me from just the calling you have on my life. Because that's what happens a lot of times is we, like, stuff things under the rug or we pretend it's not there, or we start, like, you're saying, like, numb, and we turn to different things. And so what would even be just, like, some practical or biblical advice that you would give someone to keep their heart healthy?
- [35:34]
B
Yeah. I mean, going back to Psalm and, like, I love just. Just looking at how more so how David's mind could so shift so quickly and, like, what he did to do that. And I think it is the trust in God. But Psalm 28:7 says, the Lord is my strength and my shield. In him my heart trusts, and I am helped. My heart exalts, and with my song, give thanks to him. And I've always seen that gratitude is, like, the best remedy for anything that we see. And it can. It can alter our heart. It can almost feel like it's like an anchor. It helps us get back to that synergy and that heart health of like, okay, well, I know I'm not forsaken because I know that God is. Is always near me. I know that I'm not weak because in my weakness, he is made strong. And, like, you can't have gratitude and grief, like, really coexisting at the same time.
- [36:22]
A
Wow.
- [36:22]
B
One is going to rise above the other. So it's okay if you have grief. It's okay if you're having an emotional day. It's okay if you know you're really struggling. But when you take it to God, how instantly that gratitude, especially if it's not something that he's like, this is a learning moment. If it's something that you really just need to shed, just having gratitude can make that dissolve so quickly. I found in my own life. So I think that's a huge thing. And that's something that's really individualistic that we need to do. I'd almost say daily.
- [36:53]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [36:54]
B
Like, just thanking him. And one of the hardest seasons we walked through, we hadn't even really shared this much of with our first child, we got pregnant so quickly, and I was like, okay, God, this is your timing. You made it, made it clear. And our second, it took. It took over half a year of like, habitually wanting and crying out for a child. And, you know, I know for some that's not as much time as they've been going through it. But when you go through the very first time and then you keep getting a negative test and a negative test, you're like, man, God, this hurts. And I wasn't expecting this. I wasn't prepared for it. And crying out to God so much. There was times where I was like, okay, I know I need to be gracious, and I know I need to trust that you're still in control. Like the psalm says, I need to trust that my heart rests in you. And there's days where gratitude looked like, okay, God, thank you that I'm alive. Thank you that I'm away. Like, my heart just did not want to do it. But the more I did and the more I made it authentic, the more my heart felt just so comforted by him. And I feel like he's so, you know, he's ever present help. And he binds the wounds of the brokenhearted. And I think that's something that we actually need to believe and put into use. Instead of trying to act like we have it all together or we're okay, we need to go to him and say, God, I'm not okay, but I know that everything will be okay. Because you're in control.
- [38:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Almost this, like, be honest with where your heart's at, you know, like this. It's this partnership of an awareness of where you're at, but also a gratitude for who he is. That no matter where I'm at, you are unchanging God, and you are good, and I'm gonna trust in you, but this is where I'm at.
- [38:40]
B
Like, I'm.
- [38:40]
A
I'm struggling right now. I'm sad right now. I'm hurting right now. But I trust that you are good. I trust that you're on the throne. I trust that you're going to work all things together. And there may be some days where it's really hard to say that. And then there's some days where maybe you need someone to remind you of that. And I think that is so true and so beautiful of just, like, I love that you said grief and gratitude, like, cannot coexist together. Because when you make God bigger than your problems, it puts everything into perspective. And I think a lot of times we make our problems bigger than God. And it can feel so overwhelming. You know, it can feel like, how am I ever going to get through this? Why is nothing changing? I've been trying for six months, or I've been going through therapy for two years. It doesn't feel like I'm healing. It doesn't feel like I'm moving forward, whatever it may be. Right. And I think for me, what's been a game changer with that gratitude component is that perspective of God. Your ways are higher than mine. I don't always understand. And so I'm gonna choose to trust. You are bigger than what I feel, and you are bigger than what I'm seeing. And I'm gonna choose to keep my eyes on you, even though I feel the way that I feel. But be honest with how you feel, because that's the only way you're gonna be able to heal. It's like, not to keep rhyming, but it's like, that's the only way is, like, you have to be honest with where you're at. And I do think it's so important in. In life that when you feel what you feel like, another part of keeping a healthy heart is, like, confession and revealing what you feel to other people so that they can pray for you and that you can experience that healing and that freedom from what the enemy wants to create. Like, more when you're battling it alone and in secrecy, and then the shame starts creeping in. You know, maybe it was something I did. Maybe, like, am I not being a good guide? Am I. Am I not doing a good job? Did I upset you? Yeah. Are you punishing me? I mean, those thoughts can start coming in, especially when we keep it to ourselves. And so I love that you spoke to Gratitude. I think another part is just, like, continue to be aware of where you're at. And then three is like, confess it. Like, just like, confess with your people, you know, Remember.
- [40:51]
B
I can vividly remember the night that we did the conference that we went to with our small group.
- [40:56]
A
Oh, my gosh. I was hoping you would bring this up.
- [40:58]
B
Cheesecake Factory. And we just had a moment of confessing so much to each. To each other as a group of four of us, and we're just, like, eating cheesecake, sobbing. And like, sometimes that's what you need. Really beautiful.
- [41:12]
A
A good sob session. Confession and cheesecake.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah. And so, like, community plays a big part into that, too. Like, yes, confess it with God, but bring your people into it as well. Because I think we're. We're quick to convince ourselves that we're healed and we don't realize the power of one people coming alongside you to see the change that you want to enact. But also, like, sometimes you start sharing. You're like, I did not realize.
- [41:35]
A
Right.
- [41:35]
B
I had all that hidden underneath the surface.
- [41:37]
A
Totally.
- [41:38]
B
That I've been stuffing since childhood. I don't know.
- [41:41]
A
I've had it since I was four. Perfect. No, it's. It's so true. And I even remember, like, one of your breakups, like, I was holding you as you were crying. Like, as you. Yeah. I mean, but that's. That's what were meant to. That's. That's how life is supposed to be. Like, when you have your people and you have your community, there's going to be moments where maybe you realize, like, okay, I'm not with the person, that this is not God's best for me. Like, this person is pulling me away from God and not towards God. Or maybe there's some addiction in my life or something I've been turning to. To numb or shame. I've been carrying lies. I've been believing whatever it is. We need those people to, like, hold us up when we're weak and when we. I mean, even for you, like, making that decision was a really hard one. Like, that was in that moment. You know, looking back now, you're like, praise the Lord. But in that moment, that felt like the biggest decision ever, because you were very invested in that relationship. You really cared about this person, and. But you knew it wasn't God's best. And it took that, like, letting go and trusting the Lord and that his ways were higher. But it also was like having community.
- [42:53]
B
I'll say on that note, too, is it was hard to let go of that because of what I invested. But it was also hard because I feel like, in part, I realized how much I'd skewed from what I had hoped for my future relationship and what I was believing. I remember being in middle school or high school, and the Lord telling me, hey, you know, your future husband's gonna look like this, and, you know, all these godly qualities. But he also said, your future husband's gonna be a virgin. And I was like, I don't know where you're finding those, because I think those don't exist anymore from what I'm seeing around me. And it was just a moment, like a sweet, gentleman reminder of God saying, like, do you remember what I told you I have for you? And that's not to shame anyone that's not been there. But I just realized in that moment, God, you've told me specific, beautiful promises that you have for me when I wait on you. And I realize I have wanted things in my own. In my own ways for so much or to gratify things within me that you actually want to heal. And it was. I just remember crying because I think, of course, God, I wish I would have waited on you. But also now I want to again, I want to refresh the promises. And I think that's a lot of people, you know, whether it's shame or regret or you're still in the middle of a season of. Choosing the wrong things is like the. It takes energy and effort to believe God at His word when you haven't been walking in that way. But it's really just that first step. Like, just have the cheesecake crying session and just, like, lament to people and have people that say, I believe in you. I believe that God has beautiful promises, not just, like, for you, but also for you to step into who you be so you can be blessing to other people. Like, it's this cycle when we believe him and believe he can do things, and we see way more than we ever thought we could have seen within us but not just for us, but for other people as well. And, you know, you mentioned Ruth, and I'd love to go there because I think she's someone that if she wouldn't have believed for more or she wouldn't have let God speak to her in her pain, or she was intimidated by pain, then her story would have been a lot different. Yeah.
- [45:00]
A
And she ended up with her boaz. She ended up with her boaz. But I. And I want to touch on this really quick because I love that you brought that up, because I think there are a lot of people who have the perspective of, well, it's just too late now. Like, it's too. I'm too far gone. Or even when it comes in, you know, talk about, like, purity, for example. Like, oh, I already messed up. So it's like, I'm just, what's the. What's the big deal? Like, I just can. Like, it already happened. Or, you know, they. They compromise in a certain relationship, and then they feel like, because I compromise, like, now I'm stuck and. Sorry, God, I know you. You told me that you had more for me, but, like, look, I've already. I've already messed up. I'm already in this relationship. I'm. It's already, like, I'm too in it. And I think that is a lot of people's stories. And then, like, it's you. You're, like, afraid to let go, even though you know there's so much more. But you feel maybe, like, that shame and that guilt and those soul ties that you created through sin and compromise. But you just. You feel like, I don't know if I can disentangle myself. I love that you. You brought that up because there is hope and there is so much joy to be had on the other side to. To break the entanglements of sin. You know, it talks about in Hebrews 12 that we should throw off all weights and all sin that so easily entangles in order to run our race. You know, there's going to be things in relationships and. And in life, you know, that are going to try and entangle us and entrap us. And it's gonna take that effort that, like, actual, like, you have to throw it off. Like, that is not just, like, something that just naturally happens. It's like, you have to throw it off. Yeah. Shake it off. Like, you've gotta. You have to make that effort. It's not gonna just, like, make it for you. And that is. It's such a real place to be. But I Just want to encourage you, even if you've compromised in the past. Like, there is redemption and there is grace and there is hope for a new today. And you can choose from this day forward to choose purity. You can choose from this day forward to put your confidence and hope in Jesus alone. You can choose from this day forward to let him make you a new creation. And you can be that new creation in Christ Jesus. You can be that secure woman or man of God that is not defined by past mistakes or by the things of yesterday, but that you get to walk into the promised future that God has for you. You can choose that today. And so I do want to make that so clear, just for anyone listening, that's like, yes, that's me. That's where I'm at. It's like, we. We're standing here, like, or standing. We're sitting. Clearly, we're sitting here having this conversation because we finally hit where we're like, we're not gonna let our past define us. Like, we're not gonna let the things of yesterday and the broken promises and the unmet expectations and the lost relationships and all of those things. We're not gonna let it hold us back. We're not gonna stay compromising or settling. We're gonna choose to work on ourselves to get our relationship with God right, and then we're gonna choose to move forward. And I. I do think that that's so important. And you look at that even with Ruth, like she had in the. In the book, like, she had this moment where it's like, everything that could have gone wrong went wrong, you know, and it was like all of her expectations. Yeah, all of her expectations shattered, all of her hopes dashed. I mean, truly, like, in just everything was crashing down. She could have easily just stayed defeated there. She could have easily just stayed depressed there and just thought, well, this is, like, this is life, you know, and I'm just going to compromise or I'm just going to settle. But instead, she chose to continue to have hope, to continue to have faith. And it ultimately led to such a beautiful redemption story of her finding Boaz and just, like, the lineage that that led to. And so it's a beautiful, like, redemption story that I've seen in my own life, that I've seen in your life, that I've seen in Ruth and that I've seen just in. In so many people. And it can be your story, too.
- [49:15]
B
I actually love that you brought up Hebrews 12, because that's one of my key verse. It was one of My key verses during that time we talked about too, ye, look at this. We're in these things with blood. But I love that it continues on is after it tells us to throw off the sin that so easily entangles. It continues. And it says, by looking at Jesus, the founder or the pioneer of faith. And I think that part is so crucial because in order to throw off our past selves, our past mistakes, we can't keep looking at ourselves like, okay, well, am I clean enough now? Am I redeemed enough? We have to look at Jesus so good. Well, what is he modeling? I'm not going to look at where I've been. I'm going to keep looking at him. And naturally I'm going to gravitate into the image and into that lane almost of where he's running. I'm not running back where I used to be. And I think that's really crucial. And as you were talking about that, I just see the person that's saying, okay, well, I've been in this situation. How do I get here? And as you're talking, I just saw Joseph and seeing that he was clothed and the coat of many colors and, like, honored and esteemed and then put in rags and in prisons. But then also from that point, he becomes, I would say, sidelined to Pharaoh.
- [50:27]
A
He becomes second in command.
- [50:29]
B
Yeah. He becomes really important in Egypt. And just that trajectory of sometimes we think, well, I've already lost the coat of many colors, and here I'm in the rag. He's like, I'm not going to get that back. Yeah, that's true. But you're gonna be. Move on to something different and being really frank. I have three younger sisters, so sometimes I just have to be blunt with encouragement. It's gonna be harder.
- [50:51]
A
Yeah.
- [50:51]
B
If you have crossed the line, that is not gonna say, okay, God's forgiven you. It's gonna be easy now. Like, you're gonna have to fight for it. But you have an image and an example of what you want your future marriage to be, how you want to be as an individual, the kind of impact you want to leave on this. This world. It doesn't really so much matter what we've been through or what we're going through. We have the grit, the determination, the example in Jesus to be able to get through it all.
- [51:14]
A
So good. I love, I love, love, love that you brought it back to that of, like. It's not just a matter of, like, throw off your sin, throw off your sin, throw off your sin. Because I think we can get so caught on that. Like, okay, I gotta focus on. I gotta get clean. I gotta throw it off. I gotta. I gotta get right. It's like, no. The way we're able to throw off our sin, the way we're able to get clean is by fixing our eyes on Jesus. The only way we are clean is by the blood of Jesus. We can't make ourselves clean. Nothing I do can make me clean. Nothing she does can make her clean. Nothing you do can make you clean. Only the blood of Jesus makes us clean. Wipes away our sin, clothes us in righteousness, takes off our. Our rags and puts on, you know, those. Those beautiful robes of new color and new life and promises and all of these beautiful things that we've been hoping for and praying for. Only Jesus can give us that. And I love that you pointed it back to that, because Jesus is such a beautiful example of even what it does look like of how to love when you have been hurt. Because he was hurt. He was hurt a lot by us. I mean, he. He took on all of our sin. He took on the sin of humanity. And even as he invested in these 12 disciples and loved on them, even his closest friends deserted him, rejected him, betrayed him, abandoned him. In his greatest hour of need, when you need community the most, his friends left him and rejected him and were sleeping. Yeah. And they were sleeping. He's like, wake up. It's kind of an important hour. I'm about to be crucified. And you're sleeping.
- [52:45]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure thing, Jesus.
- [52:47]
A
They're like. And they're like, wake up for a second and fall back asleep again. I mean, he. He knew what it was like to be hurt. He was rejected by those that were the closest to him. And so if that's your story, I love that Christian's reminding us, like, we need to look to Jesus. How did Jesus respond? What did Jesus do? And how. That's how we model our life. You know, I love that Romans 5, 8 reminds us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Even when we rejected him, he accepted us. Even when we ran from him, he chased after us, he pursued us. Even when we didn't love him, he loved us like that. That is the radical love of Jesus. That does not make sense. But we're called to walk in. And it goes on to say, somewhere in the New Testament, I can't remember first, John, John, one of them, one of the johns. It talks about, we are to love in the way that he has loved us. Like, I command you. To love one another. Jesus is saying, I'm commanding you to love one another in the way that I have loved you. So I think it's in John, and it's. It's talking about in the way that Jesus loved us, this radical love that doesn't make sense, this unconditional love that's full of forgiveness, that's full of grace, that's full of understanding and compassion and service and laying his life down for us. We are called to do for one another, and we're called to also have that same grace and compassion and love for ourselves. And so when we've hurt ourselves, we're called to forgive ourselves. He's forgiven us. Why should we not forgive ourselves? When other people hurt us and offend us and reject us and betray us, we're called to forgive them. Who are we to withhold forgiveness when the Creator of the universe died for our sins and forgave us when we don't deserve that? And so be reminded of when you're struggling to move forward and you feel like hurt and pain is your destiny and your lot right now, just remember that Jesus is the. The one we turn to, and he's the example that we turn to of how we can keep loving and how we can keep hoping and how we can keep moving forward even when all that has happened. Because even in his last hours, as he's literally dying on the cross, as the people are legit, like, just hung him on the cross, nailed his hands, nailed his feet, put a crown of thorns, and they've been mocking him all day long. He literally says, father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. That is, like, the greatest act of love. I'm like, what? No, I'd be like, y'all wait and see. Y'all just wait. That's what I'd literally be saying. I'm like, you just give me. Give me three days. Give me three days. You wait. Like, that would be the same time. She'll be right up here, like. And that would be my response. But, like, I love that Jesus just continued in humility and in forgiveness and in love. And that is the way we are called to continue to love one another. And so I did want to just, like, kind of bring that to a close as we're wrapping up. I would love for you to just give the listeners, the watchers, the viewers, the true crew, just any, like, practical advice that you have when it comes to. I mean, it can be in any of the categories we've talked about. We've kind of touched on how to love yourself when you know you've hurt yourself and you continue to get in your own way how to love another person or how to love again when you've been hurt by people. And then we've also talked about, you know, receiving God's love and how to receive that in fullness so that we can even love anybody else. And so when it comes to loving yourself, loving others, and loving God, you know, what practical advice would you. Would you give?
- [56:30]
B
Well, I'm so glad we got to kind of COVID that terrain and those trajectories through that. And, you know, the. I think the best advice is preemptive advice before you even find yourself hurt or hurting yourself or, you know, talking down to yourself, like, what can you do to forego those instances as much as you can. Because we'll all go through hurts, will all hurt people, whether that's intentional or unintentional. But what can we do to forego that from happening? And I think we just. We need to continually choose the godly route. And I was reminded before we. I came here of in 1st Samuel 15 and just how Saul, he was king, he was in war, he was winning battles, he was doing it all. But God was speaking to him specific things. He's like, well, I want you to do this, and I want you to take this much, leave this much, follow my instruction to the detail and go in the places I have for you and don't go the places I don't. And he gave him specific instructions of what to do after he won this battle. And Saul decided, well, that sounds good, but it also sounds good if I were to do this. Long story short, he took the treasure of the cattle, and he said, you know, God, that's a good advice you have for me, but it'd also be good if I use it this way. And I think we often will hear the Lord say, okay, go here. And you're like, okay, yeah, I'm ready to go. But then we see something that, like, catches our eye of, okay, well, God, I can fix him. I can bring him to you, or I can go to that place and show up there. It won't affect me wherein God's saying, hey, I'm speaking to you. Not just directionally, but detailed. And so I think if we can say, God, I want all that you have for me, similar to what you were saying earlier. I want to feel all the things. I want to be guided, but I also want to be specific to what you're calling me to. And that's something that despite anything I've done, I've been through. I see God's redemption through all of it. But I've always want to, when I look back, think, okay, God, how many times were you speaking to me that I could have picked up on it more? Or you were specific when I was crying out and I should have followed that more. So my best advice would be, is like, let God speak and listen. And if you think you can't hear him, I don't think it's because he's not talking. I think it's because there's so many other voices in our worlds and in our lives and sometimes those are the voices and the things that end up breaking our heart as we were talking about earlier. So clear out the distractions, be in tune with God. I, I trust that you're speaking and I think you're going to give me specific details, whether it be for my, my future husband or it's just for tomorrow. I want to listen and let that be your heart posture.
- [59:02]
A
So good. I love that you're talking about almost like preparing before the moments of hurt and pain come, because I think so often we aren't. And then we find ourselves in those moments of pain and hurt and we don't know how to respond. And that's why we turn to things that numb or we cope with the wrong things and we don't have the right healthy heart strategies of, you know, like, how to get our heart healthy again. And so I love the what Krishna is saying of, you know, even if your heart is hurting right now and you want it to be healthy again, you will go through hurt again. The reality is, or maybe you're in a great place right now and you sadly need the reminder that you probably will get hurt again and you will hurt people again. I think it's so important to, like she's saying just to be prepared. And you prepare by staying in the word of God. You prepare by staying in the presence of God. And then you follow what he says, like when he tells you, I mean, His Word is clear. And a lot of times we want this, like, mysterious will of God when His revealed will and His Word is very, very clear. It's very, very clear. And we are called to follow it. And that's what leads to a life of peace and freedom. Truly, it's not unfollowing our feelings. That actually is what leads to a life of bondage and shame, not unlike the world preaches. Man, that's so good. I love that you're A well of wisdom and she's my cousin and I'm around her all the time. But just everything you said has been so good. Okay, where can they find you? How can they get your book? Guys, go check out Break up with. What broke you telling you it's really, really good no matter what your relationship status is. I really do think that the Holy Spirit will use it to. To speak to you in a profound way. But yeah, tell them how they can follow you and find your book.
- [60:52]
B
Well, you can find me here at Maddie's house where she has her baby because we're having play days all the time. But on my profile, I'm Ms. Christian Bevere because Christian Bevere was taken, not because I'm hyper excess with being married. But you can find me at Ms. Christian Bevere. And if you want to get the book, it's on Amazon and where all the books are. And if you're thinking, man, I just need some of that encouragement that community you guys were talking about. And right now, relationships is the thing that is hurting my heart. Or I want to hear God speak in. Come over to the Dear Future Husband podcast or Instagram. I love seeing people interact over there. And we have Maddie's wisdom. We have a lot of people coming and speaking for our new season and I'd love to welcome you there.
- [61:35]
A
Yes. Okay. Well, this was a really good podcast and I'm so excited. It felt perfect timing for this love week that everyone's gonna be just like, so you know, you're in your feels this week. Like you're either like sad because you want to be in a relationship or you're in a crappy relationship that you need to get out of, but you just don't know how to get out of it. Or you're in a really good relationship and maybe you're evaluating. Is this the one? And then there's some of you listening that maybe you are married. I don't know where you fall, but send this to a friend who may need this encouragement. Single and struggling. Single and thriving. Heart hurting, heartbreaking. Struggling with, you know, forgiveness, shame. This. We really covered a lot in this conversation and read the stories that we talked about. Ruth Hosea is a great one that just demonstrates a beautiful, radical love. And and then also just the Gospels. The book of John is one of my favorites. But so grateful for you. Chris, thanks for coming on. I call her Chris Christian, thanks for coming on the stage. Your podcast. I will link her book in the show notes so that you guys can go and check it out. But we love you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. And as always, be sure to stay you stay true. We love.