← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
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- [00:00]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Stay True podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. The risk of wildfire affects all of us and protecting communities is everyone's priority. At Pacific Power, we may implement a Public Safety power shutoff or PSPs, which temporarily turns off power in areas where dry vegetation, low humidity and high winds meet. We understand the impact and difficulty of an outage. This step is taken to protect our neighbors, our communities and the places we call home. Learn more about psps@pacificpower.net wildfire I want to know from a granddaughter's perspective and a daughter's perspective of growing up with Billy and Ruth Graham.
- [00:57]
Anne Graham Lotz
I was raised so that I really didn't know what Daddy wasn't aware of. His worldwide acclaim and all that. I think we're living at the end of human history as we know it. I think Jesus is soon to return.
- [01:07]
Madison Pruitt Trout
How do you not lose faith? How do you not lose hope? How do you not grow weary when it feels like man, I just can't catch a break.
- [01:15]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Don't give up. We could just come with the Lord's power and just pray. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I command Holy Spirit fire to burn up anything that's coming against me. Any kind of creature or like fear or anxiety.
- [01:31]
Anne Graham Lotz
Suffering is not punishment for sin. I know the enemy is alive and well and vicious and he wants to take God's people out. I know when I was diagnosed with cancer I had a friend say, ann, this is the enemy. And I didn't feel that I knew he would bring me through.
- [01:51]
Madison Pruitt Trout
What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast and I'm your host Madison Pruitt Trout. And and I'm so so excited because we have two incredible women of God in the podcast studio today that they have lived a life of legacy and they come from a family of legacy. And I am so so excited for the conversation that we're going to have today. And they are the daughter and the granddaughter of one of the most influential voices of faith and modern history, Billy Graham. We have Anne Graham Lutz, daughter of Billy and Ruth Graham and President and CEO of Angel Ministries, best selling author of over 20 books, incredible and world renowned speaker and called best preacher in the family. Come on, shout out. And we Have Rachel Ruth Lots, right, is she is the daughter of Anne Graham Lots and the granddaughter of Billy Graham. She is a speaker, a world renowned Bible study teacher, which I want to join and be a part of, and vice president of Angel Ministries. And together they have written over three books, which is so cool and exciting. I love that because I'm super close to my mom and I love that you guys get to do ministry together. And we're going to be talking about one of their newest releases called God won't leave you there, which is just so powerful. I'm so excited to talk about that. So, guys, welcome to Stay True podcast.
- [03:12]
Anne Graham Lotz
Maddie, we're excited to be here. Thank you.
- [03:13]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Thank you so much for having us.
- [03:15]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Oh, I'm so excited. And Rachel Ruth and I just bonded right before this because she went to Baylor. Her kids go to Baylor. And I was like, so how was your experience in Waco? Because, you know, it's either like a love hate, you know, and Grant and I were like, this is where God has planted us in this season. It's not forever. No, but we love our Waco family there. But that's just so fun. I'm so excited you guys are here. Thank you so much for being here. And I'm so excited about this book. And I feel like I have so much many questions. First and foremost, I mean, I have. I mean, I've watched the Billy Graham documentary I grew up on. I mean, just like listening to Billy Graham and so inspired, of course by his life and have followed you and your family for a long time. And so just thankful for a family like you guys of just taking a stand for truth in a very truthless and confused world of not shying away from preaching the hard topics and things that people need to hear and need to know. And so I have, I know I've taken from that and learned so much from that. And even like my podcast name is Stay True and that's one of the passions of my heart. And I know something you guys are both very passionate about is God's word and God's truth. And so I'm so excited to dive more into your story. And, and first things first, I, I do want to know how was it? I want to know from a granddaughter's perspective and a daughter's perspective of growing up with Billy and Ruth Graham as your parents, what was that like? And what is something that you learned from both your dad and your mom that has just impacted maybe your motherhood as well as your ministry?
- [05:03]
Anne Graham Lotz
It's hard to pull out one thing, isn't it, you know, your, your parents impacted you. Mine didn't mean. I was raised so that I really didn't know what Daddy, you know, wasn't aware of his worldwide acclaim and all that 60% of my growing up years has been estimated he was gone. So I was pretty much raised by a single mother and by grandparents. And I just say that in case, you know, people who are watching your. If there's any single parent out there, with God's help, and I know it can use other people too, grandparents or somebody to help you, but you can raise children in the Lord. And so I believe, you know, the one thing about my home was that even though my father was gone so much, it was Christ centered. My mother never made a big deal of him going, but she always made a big deal of him coming. Wow. So there are a lot of lessons I would say in that. But what my mother taught me, I mean, many things, but one of the big takeaways was in the morning, you. She would gather everybody in the house into the kitchen and she would have devotions. Whether she'd read verses and she'd pray. I never liked morning devotions because I was trying to gather my things, get to school. I was afraid I'd be late and I'd study for a test or something. But she taught me by example to begin my day in God's word and prayer. And that has stayed with me forever. She also, when she held her Bible. In fact, Julie Nixon Eisenhower wrote a book about. Has a chapter on there about mother. And she described the way mother handled her Bible. And she said you could tell that she loved God's Word because she loved Jesus who's revealed there. And if I can put it this way, without. I mean, I want to be respectful. But it was as though she was in love with Jesus. She just. And. And that was contagious to me. I wanted to love Jesus and know him like my mother did. And then my father, when he was home, he led the devotions at night and. But when Daddy led devotions, he would read a paragraph and then we would stop and talk about it. So he would read all the little footnotes and the side notes and my mother would get sort of frustrated. But. But he taught me to not just read it, but to think about what I was reading and to discuss it and. And then of course, there's so many other lessons. His faithfulness to his call when he was offered many other things that he could have done, but he was very faithful to his call to preach the gospel. And in fact, there was one funny story I was thinking about last week when mother and Daddy, you know, he was close to several presidents, but probably closest friends that he had in the presidency was President Johnson, which is interesting, but I think it's both their farm boy, sort of. And so they were at the table eating in the White House, and the President asked my father who he wanted, who he thought it would be good for the President to choose as his running mate when he ran. And so my mother kicked my daddy under the table, and instead of just getting the hint, he just said right out in front of the President, why did you just kick me?
- [07:55]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
You know?
- [07:56]
Anne Graham Lotz
And mother said, because you're supposed to keep your counsel to spiritual matters, not political. And so then as they were leaving, she was walking out of the room with Lady Bird, and the President held back, and he. She said she could hear him say, now, Billy, who would you think I should choose as a running mate?
- [08:12]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Now that she's out of the way.
- [08:13]
Anne Graham Lotz
Yeah, now that she's out of the way. Yeah. So they. But. But. And my mother helped my father keep his focus, but he was called to be an evangelist. And tell his dying breath, you know, he was. That was in his heart, he loved the gospel. And so. So those were the two takeaways, I think. My father, also very humble, genuine man. So you were just saying beautiful things about him. And he was. He was authentic. He was for real. So the person you saw in public is the same person that was in private. He wasn't two different people, you know, so. And I'm very thankful for that. So I was raised in a home where Jesus was genuinely loved, obeyed, served, glorified. And that's contagious, you know, My mother, she had these little quips and she would say, you can't teach a child to love spinach if every time they see you eating yours, you gag, you know, so children watch your example more, almost more than what you say to them. We need to teach them, but they're watching your example so that if you tell them to pray, but they never catch you in prayer, then they just think, well, you know, what's that about? Or if you tell them to read their Bible, but you're never. They never catch you reading yours. Or if you tell them they need to tell others about Jesus, but they never hear you doing that. They learn by your example, you know, So I learned by example. My. My parents and my grandparents were fabulous in the way they set the example as well as, of course, the teaching. But, but I watched what they did and I wanted what they had.
- [09:47]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's so powerful. I love that so much. What would you say as, as a granddaughter of, of Billy and Ruth, what was something that you took away?
- [09:56]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
I mean like mom, there's just, there's so many things, but I think with. We called him Daddy Bill. And Daddy Bill was. He was like a great grandfatherly grandfather, you know, just wanted to hold hands, we'd take walks. Very affectionate, Very affectionate. I mean, the night I, I didn. I was getting engaged, but he was like, come over here. And he sat me on his lap. I was 21 and he sat me on his lap and I was like almost 6ft tall. And he was like, let me see your head. I was like, what Daddy Bill? And he was like, where's the ring? I was like, daddy Bill, I'm not engaged. And then I got engaged that night. That's so funny, but just so sweet. And I think one of the neatest things about him that I saw was he was so humble. He was genuinely humble. And he used to say, he was like, I haven't done enough. Like he wasn't just saying like I haven't done enough. I mean he meant it. He was like, I haven't done enough to tell people about Jesus. And he, he was. There was just such a humility in our me centered world, you know, there. I think that is one hallmark of Daddy Bill was his humility and genuine in his heart. And then my grandmother, we called her Tete, which she was born and raised in China cause her parents were missionaries, medical missionaries there. And so she said it meant old lady in Chinese. Which I think is so funny because she is so funny. Like she was just quick witted and
- [11:23]
Anne Graham Lotz
you have that same wit. You're very much like her.
- [11:26]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
We just had the best time together. And when she, as she got older, she couldn't move around as much. And I would go up and spend weekends with her and we would just sit there. We both loved to paint and, and then just, you know, talk about whatever. And she just was so. She loved me and I know she loved each of my cousins, but it was just so sweet when I was going through a tough time when I was in high school. And you know, at that age you just don't feel pretty. You don't. I didn't have any friends because there was nobody that was really walking completely with the Lord like I was at that time. And. And so I felt alone. And Tetel would write me these letters and call me, and she was such an encouragement, and so it was just a huge loss to not have her here with us. But. But I just try and, you know, you just want to carry it on. You love them so much. You see their love for Jesus and always wanting to open their Bibles and discuss it, always wanting to pray. Like, Teta described herself, when she was not able to move and walk around, she's like, I'm like a mouse on a glue board. She's like, I'm stuck here, but I pray, you know, and.
- [12:41]
Anne Graham Lotz
And so never lost her spark and her joy.
- [12:45]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah. So, I mean, anyhow, I could go on and on, but they were. They're amazing.
- [12:49]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's so beautiful. And you talked about the. The beautiful, like, power of the private life and the public life and. And that, you know, they were the same in private as they were in public. And I talk about that often in my books and on my podcast because that's something I'm so passionate about. I think we.
- [13:07]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
We do.
- [13:07]
Madison Pruitt Trout
We live in a time where it's like a me generation as well as a public generation. You know, I want everything to be seen. I want everything to be rewarded. I want. I want to be relevant. I want to be popular. I want to be applauded. And I'm going through the Sermon on the Mount right now, and it's just like, you know, line after line, just rebuking that mindset, and I'm like, whoo. You know, it's constantly convicting and a constant call higher. But it's such a good reminder that this isn't home, that heaven is our home, and that the secret place really matters, that the private life shapes us for the public life. I'd be so curious, living in 2026, would you say that when the Billy Graham crusades were going on and all of that was happening and just, I mean, millions were encountering Jesus and. And revival was happening. What would you say is the biggest difference in our generation today of what you were seeing and where is. Maybe there's something that's like, okay, this is where we can really grow, and. And this is maybe a little disappointing. And then this is also something that's good and exciting about this generation that maybe, you know, we didn't have back then. I'm so curious because, you know, it was such tangible, like, clear revival happening, and we're seeing spurts of it, like, all over our nation and world today. But I would just be so curious what your thoughts would be of, you know, the generation then and the generation now and kind of what you view as what's changed and where we're at.
- [14:36]
Anne Graham Lotz
No way. Truth would say the same thing. I think social media. So that's where we're so thankful for you, Maddie, you know, because you're out there in the social media in a way that I'm not and I've done a lot of things. But, but you're really in a sense a trendsetter and, and doing it for, for Jesus and to get people into God's word. So, so I think that's the difference and that's the positive side and then we all know the negative side of social media. And so I think that's a big difference. I think also, and I don't want to get into this, but I think we're living at the end of human history as we know it. I think Jesus is soon to return. I think the enemy knows that and he's just unleashed his forces to come against. We were talking about that earlier, but to come against not just God's people, but the leaders of God's people. I think you're in for it. You know, if when you, somebody said if when you lift your head up out of the crowd, you invite us a tomato, so you're just going to get attacked and, but if you're in the Sermon on the Mount, blessed are those who are persecuted for. So they persecuted the prophets who went before you. So you're in good company. But it's, it's just, you either have to take a stand for the Lord or you just become a chameleon and act like anybody else. And I think that's maybe a good, good thing as just. We want our children to be strong so they don't make mistakes that are life scarring. But, but then when they do, God is there to redeem it. And so the, the story that. And I want you to answer that question, but the story that we've written is the story of Joseph. And so he shows that authenticity in character through incredible painful injustice, betrayal. And yet his character stayed true. So, so it's a beautiful example of somebody I want to be. I want my children to be like that. I want my grandchildren to be like that. And I think anybody. It's just choices that you make, but you have to develop that relationship with the Lord that carries you through so that you are authentic. You don't put it on because when the rubber hits the road, an inauthentic relationship doesn't cut it.
- [16:44]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Amen.
- [16:44]
Anne Graham Lotz
So I don't know how you would answer that?
- [16:46]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah. I guess just what comes to mind is back when Daddy Bill was doing these crusades, there wasn't. I mean, there was entertainment and there was, you know, but I think phones really have made such a difference. And there's such a. There's so much secularism now, you know, I mean, just people. There's so much to watch in so much evil and in so many distractions. But I feel like there was that generation that. That came to Christ through those crusades and everything, but now it's a different type of people growing up, you know, different generation that maybe can't be reached by a crusade. But God, I just love this. The verse that just keeps coming to my mind, but when it says that God pours out his spirit in the last days on. On your sons and daughters and look at what God's doing in the young generation now. And. And I know y' all are a huge part of that. But I mean, the. The. To see what God's doing, I'm kind of like, what's wrong with my generation? But anyhow, that, you know, but. But just that hunger, because they've seen it all and now it's just like, what is truth? I want to know what the. Somebody tell me what is going on and somebody explain what the Bible is. And they've tried everything or they're looking around and now they're just hungry for the truth and we've got it, you know, I mean, it's just like your heart just goes out to them and saw somebody on the plane. I was just praying for her, and you could just tell she was lost and hurting and just praying God to reach her. But I think it's a time for those of us who are believers to have tremendous compassion and a burning desire to tell people the truth because they're lost and hungry and to reach them like this, you know, or any way the Lord shows you. But I feel like it's just become the closer, like mom said, the closer we're getting to the end, the more the enemy's unleashed just to wreak havoc so that people won't. Because he knows, you know, he doesn't want him to.
- [18:50]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Absolutely.
- [18:51]
Anne Graham Lotz
And at the same time, not to get negative, but when my father was having those Crusades and all that, he always did it through the local church, you know, so they supported him. And so the local church was, if I can say, was stronger. And it was Bible based and they believed the gospel. And then it was when I was in high school in the 1960s, they took prayer and Bible reading out of the schools. And then it just. When you do that, there's just a slow drift away from God's word. And so kids are raised, they don't, they don't know the truth, you know, and they also know the truth either. But that's where. Thank you for staying true. And you know, we just each one do what we can. So the people that will be watching you, they don't do a podcast, but they've got a next door neighbor or they have somebody they work with or somebody they go to school with. And so we just all want to do what we can to share the truth.
- [19:39]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Absolutely. That's so, so good. And yeah, such a good reminder of, you know, what you're saying, of just that we live in confused times. And I talk about on here, you know, when I was reading in John 18, when Pilate posed the question to Jesus, you know, what is truth? That. That is the cry of this generation of what is truth? I've turned to my feelings, I've turned to culture, I've turned to drugs, I've turned to alcohol, I've turned to relationship. All these different things turn to fame and money and success. And I don't feel life. I don't feel alive. I don't feel, I feel the opposite of that. I feel dead inside. I feel a shell of myself. I feel depressed and anxious and bound and stuck. And that's why Jesus says I'm the way, the truth and the life. Not a way, not, you know, one of many, you know, but the, the truth. And, and so I love that you were speaking to that. I love that you guys do a lot of ministry together. What started that and how has that journey been in, in, in the ministry you guys are doing together and writing books and podcasting or speaking or, or whatever it is of what you guys are doing. I, I love just a mother, a strong mother and daughter relationship. And I would love to just for you to take a minute, a minute to speak into maybe some moms listening, maybe some daughters, because I know not everybody has a strong mother daughter relationship, but we crave it and we want it. And I know that's something even my mom and I have been asked a lot. I' my podcast and we get asked a lot, you know, like I, I want to have a strong relationship with my mom or I want to be a good mom. And so, yeah, I would love for you guys to speak into that, how it's been for you guys and what advice you have.
- [21:12]
Anne Graham Lotz
Well, you know, I started teaching a Bible study because I wanted to be a good mom, too. I had three children at that point. Five, three, and Rachel was 10 months. And. And I wasn't. I wasn't a good mother. I was losing my temper. I was frustrated with small children. Small. Small toys, small house, small words. I just. And I looked at my mother who raised five of us. I never saw my mother lose her temper. And. And my brother Franklin was one of her children, and he could have caused anybody to lose their attention. But. But. And I knew she drew her strength from time, in God's word and in prayer. And I didn't have the discipline to do that. And then somebody told me about this class. It was Bible study fellowship, and nobody would teach it, so I started it in Raleigh. And I'm not as good a mother as my mother was, but I'm a lot better because I was in that class which just disciplined study of God's word. I taught it. So you have to learn it more than the people that you teach. I did that 12 years. Never missed a class because I wanted everything God had for me. And I think, coming back to the contagious part that. So Rachel would have to tell you from her point of view, but your children see that and they begin to put a priority on God's Word. And then. And I'll. I'll just. Just leap forward. I remember the first time I heard Rachel Ruth. She had been asked to do a Christmas coffee or something at the Billy Graham Training center at the COVID So they had 450 women there who had paid to come to a Christmas, I can't remember, as a dinner or a tea or coffee, but it was packed out and. And they'd asked Richard to speak. And so she got up to speak, and I went to. To be with her, to support her and just encourage her. And I got blown away. I just. Because she wasn't just a teacher. She has a preaching gift. And it was very natural, very authentic. She's got a wonderful sense of humor. She has an incredible imagination. So she uses that to flesh out the Scriptures. And. And I was just humbled by that, I guess. So then I brought her in when I do a seminar at the COVID every year. And so I brought her in to do like, one session in my seminars, and it was two sessions. And now this next year in November, it's always in November. I've given it up. So she'll be the lead and I'll go and fill in some for her. And. And to watch her blossom. So I don't know, Maddie, how it started. It's just. Has she. She has the same calling that I do. She. She loves God's word. She'll have to tell you, but she loves God's word. And she. It burns in her heart. And God has gifted her in a different way than me. I'm a little bit more serious. I'm sort of like the cold wind blows and she's like the warm breeze that makes everybody want to be part of it. But she's very, very gifted. And so it's just been. You know how you stand back because, you know, I didn't. That's the Lord. That's just the Lord. And so I've got two other children. My. The daughter, that's the middle one, the older one than Rachel, is my travel assistant. So we're very close too. But she leads a Bible study, and she actually leads Rachel's Bible study. So Rach Ruth, she does it virtually, so they study together and then they watch Rachel's videos. And she has about 20, 25 young women in her, so she's involved, but not. Not in front of people. She would just die if she had to get in front of people. Rachel Ruth is just very natural, confident, poised, and then I wouldn't have known she could write like this. You'll just have to read her book because it. She did the heavy lifting and. And she's taken in this book the life of Joseph, and she's fleshed it out. So you feel like you. You can smell it, you can feel it, you can think it, you can. You just get so caught up in Joseph's life that at the end, when we handle his death, you cry. You know, you just. I mean, they're parts where you laugh and you'll cry, but it's just very. The emotion comes through. So. So the gifting of. In writing was something that just. I don't know how that came about. Rachel, Jesus Followers is the first one. We did stories just to teach young mothers how to raise children to be Jesus followers. Not to leave it with the church or leave it with your school, but. And then the next one, preparing to meet Jesus, was taking the characteristics of Rebecca. And just where Abraham sent a servant to find a bride that would be suitable for Isaac. And it's the characteristics that God's looking in a bride for his son. So. But she just. And we do it together. But I polish and edit and add this or transition, whatever, But. But she does the heavy lifting and it's. And I Just stand in awe. Very grateful, you know, and love being with her too, because she's lots of fun.
- [25:58]
Madison Pruitt Trout
So I love that.
- [26:00]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
So sweet. I felt very humbled that you would say that because I. Mom just the ultimate example, you know, growing up. And she gave her. Still does. I mean, her whole life in service to the Lord. So I would get up in the mornings to go to school. She's on her knees studying her Bible. I would come home, she was studying her Bible, preparing for a Bible study. And anything I ever came to her to talk about, she would take it back to the Word. And then she was gone. Because I was 10 months old when she first started BSF. And then. And then she got into international ministry when I was in eighth grade. And so she was gone a lot. And so I saw her, even though she wasn't like present as much, I saw her leaving, giving up everything to go follow the Lord. And I always. I had a heart for the Lord. I came to Christ very young, like 5 years old, and then rededicated my life to Christ at nine. And I told the Lord my freshman year in high school. I said, I don't want to be a wimpy Christian. I want to be an Old Testament woman. I'm always drawn to the Old Testament because it's stories and I'm add. You know, I just can't. And so I didn't know what that was going to mean because I knew I had that verse in First Peter, chapter 2, verses 13 and 14. Don't be surprised at the painful trial you're suffering as though something strange were happening to you. But anyhow, rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ so that his glory is revealed in. And I claim those. And then anyhow, the Lord took me through some really hard stuff. And I didn't ever think. I mean, nobody would have pegged me to be in ministry. I was just. I didn't do well in school, and I wasn't.
- [27:51]
Anne Graham Lotz
You finished on the Dean's list. You did good.
- [27:53]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah, my last two years at Baylor got on the Dean's list. I think that was because of the Ritalin I was on the last two years. I'm not on it anymore, but anyhow. But I just. I don't know. God just actually I was listening to this woman that was speaking one time way back when my husband and I first got married. And I was like. It was when Jesus took Peter, James and John up the high mountain, you know, Matthew 17, I think. And I was listening to her and I was like, get me up there. I was like, there's so much more. Like, I thought she was just kind of talking through it, and I wanted to get up. And it was the first time I just had this burning on the inside of me to do that. And slowly the Lord began to call me and clearly has called me into ministry. And so for anyone that is thinking, I can't do it, I'm not gifted. I'm not either. I mean, God just. I mean, he has given me the gift because of the Holy Spirit, but I'm not the one that was the likely one. And so he uses the weak things, the nobodies, the one the teacher never liked, you know, and can do unbelievable things. And so to do ministry with Mom, I'm very humbled. I feel like it's Paul, Timothy kind of thing, you know? And so to see mom where she gets up, you know, and just gives it, doesn't care who she's in front of, she is not going to change like a chameleon, you know, she just stays true to the word and is unashamed. And so when you have that kind of example, it's just like, how could I ever be anything less? And that's my prayer for my girls, you know, that they would see me. And I want to smack myself when I'm not the good example to them, you know, because I don't want to affect their relationship with the Lord ever, by them looking at me hurting. That. So that's a big challenge as a mom, too, so.
- [29:51]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Totally. I mean, I have my. I have my one year old, and I'm already like. I'm like, wow. It do. It's like she's already watching my reaction to everything, I mean, and just absorbing it, picking it up. And it is just so. It's funny, though, when you were describing the difference in you guys, that's like me and my husband, like, I. I laugh at how I'm always, like, preaching on, like, the most, like, serious, like, intense things. Like, people leave and they're like, man, like, okay, I need to repent. I need to confess. I need to, you know, and. And Grant just has a way of, like, storytelling and just, like, being that hug of, like, grace and you can do it, you know, and. And that. And we're such a good team together. It's such. It's such a, like, powerful, beautiful, like, grace and truth, which is so cool that God has brought you guys together and. And doing ministry together. And you were talking about how God uses, like, the most unlikely and, and I feel that way about myself. I've seen it happen time and time again with, with like throughout scripture and with people that I know. And, and that's, I mean that's Joseph. That's, you know, like it's like he overlooked, picked on by his brothers, like just, I mean he loved by his dad, but you know, like he had a lot going against him. And I would love for you to unpack why you chose to write on Joseph's story and what led you guys to write this book. God won't leave you there on Joseph's story. I'm just curious what, what led to this book? You guys know we talk a lot on this podcast about purpose and really seeking the path God has for our lives. And when it comes to education, I truly believe that path should lead to something meaningful. That's one of the reasons I love Grand Canyon University. GCU is a private, non profit Christian university located in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. And they are passionate about making education an affordable path forward for students to grow in their faith and in their calling. What I really love about GCU is that they are grounded in Christian truth and focused on equipping the next generation to lead with integrity and serve with purpose, which is something I know so many of you care about too. And they've actually kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for 17 years. Plus in 2025 alone, they awarded over $404 million in institutional scholarships. So whether you're looking to earn your degree on campus or online, you can pursue your purpose at gcu. Private Christian affordable non profit. Visit gcu. Edu to learn more. Stay True Podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliate. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [32:36]
Anne Graham Lotz
I know there'll be people watching that didn't come from a home like ours or yours. And Joseph came from a very dysfunctional home and his father had a past, you know, and had four wives. If you can call two of them wives, two of them. You know, it's just a very messy home and he went through a lot of struggles. But so. So for those who are watching who don't have a strong foundation, you can start one. You can be a Joseph in the midst of all of that. And I will say this, that when every book I wrote, my husband and my Father were the first ones to read it. So every time my father read my book after it finished and make a comment on the book, and then it would say, and the next book you need to write is Joseph. And I never did. I did Abraham. I've done Hagar. I've done some of the Old Testament characters, but. But I never did. And I know why. Because God was withholding it because he wanted me to do it with Rachel Ruth. I could never have written a book like this without Rachel Ruth. And so truth is truth, but the way she's fleshed it out is it'll be a page turner. It's just thrilling. So tell. Tell why you.
- [33:45]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah, well, I was teaching my online Bible study, and we're going through Genesis, and I got to Joseph, and I had just gone through a really horrific experience. Experience where I had gone in just for a routine stress test. I have just like this heart thing that wasn't any big deal. I've had it forever. And so I had done stress tests before, but this one just was terrible. So the stress was through the roof. And then you get on a treadmill and they've got you pumping gas somewhere. I don't know. But anyhow, I walked out with chest pain, and I was like, what. What is this? I had Sophia, my middle daughter, with me, which my mom was like, take. Take Sophia with you. And I was like, all right. And. And I'm so glad because I couldn't have driven home. And I was like, I think I pulled some chest muscles or something, I don't know. And I was crying. It was so awful. And. And four days later, I ended up. I was at a Carolina basketball game, unc, front row, somebody giving us tickets. And I knew. I was like, I think. I think I'm having a heart attack. But I didn't want to interrupt the game. I'm a terrible people pleaser. And so people pleaser. And so we go home, call the ambulance. And anyhow, ended up having two heart attacks called scad, Spontaneous coronary artery dissection. And it's from hard exercise. High stress women in their 30s and 40s have it. And my artery just shredded. And so it was super painful. And that was the first one. And then they kept me over that night. And the next day, my mom and my sister were in the room, and I ended up having a second super severe scad and another artery in my heart, and it shredded from top to bottom. I mean, I was literally dying. Couldn't feel anything. And I knew I was in my Last prayer, which I thought was going to be my last prayer. I was like, lord, just take care of my girls. And then all of a sudden it's like I felt the hand of God come across my heart and the blood somehow came back. It still doesn't make sense. It came back to my body. They rushed me to the or found it. They said it was the worst scad they've seen on any, you know, journals or anything. They've looked at it, shredded from top to bottom. And the best cardiologist for that, for stents, was there, available. And he weaved it through all that and put stents from the top of my heart to the bottom. And I survived it. So I say all that. Then it was three years of just because they said it could happen again. And the ptsd, the chest pain, the going to the hospital back and forth and. And so after that, after I had to recover, then I taught Joseph and I mean his life of what he went through, his life changed in one nanosecond. He thought he was just going to check on his brothers, bring the report back to his dad, and instead his brothers were so jealous because his dad, you know, was favoring him and his brothers threw him in a pit, sold him into slavery and everything changed in his life. And so I think that was the. It was like I was reading it, studying it, teaching it. I knew God was just burning on my heart. We've got to write a book about this. And mom, because of Daddy Bill, you know, kept wanting mom to write one. It was just so sweet for us to do that together. But it comes from. That was one of the things, a lifetime of pain for both of mom and I. I mean, we've just. There's suffering, you know, it's what happens in the New Testament. So sign of blessing, really. It's not the Old Testament. They just got tons of treasures and all that. And now it's really just that suffering and affliction. I don't say that to scare anybody, but it's through that you just get to know the power of God. And the same thing with Joseph. I mean, God got to show Joseph how near and how he was and took care of him. And so that's like the, you know.
- [37:46]
Anne Graham Lotz
Because your life changed in a nanosecond. Yeah, I mean, just that. And my husband, I had several life changing things, but I found him unresponsive in our pool. Been married 49 years and my life changed just in a nanosecond. But the neat thing with Joseph and doesn't mean they're not tears. And Joseph, the Bible says, cried and tried to get his brothers to release him. And I know you went through three years of just that PTSD that was so horrible and there's grief, but underneath the bedrock is your relationship with God. And so one of the things I would encourage people to do is if you don't have a trial now, if you're not suffering, if everything is fine, make sure you establish a relationship with God now. Develop it so when a crisis hits, you don't have to scramble and all of a sudden find God and figure out how to pray and all that that needs to be in place. And Joseph, from whatever we say about his father Jacob, his relationship with God had to have been in place because that's what carried him through not only that nanosecond, but then he went into Potiphar's house. And the other thing that happened there was. Maybe relates to some of the viewers too, because you want to talk about the temptation.
- [38:58]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah, that's good. I mean, so Joseph goes into. And I think there's just so many neat things about his story because he was 17 when he was thrown in that pit and then sold into slavery. And there's no record of him going, you know, when they're putting him on the auction block to get sold, he's not like, get me out of here. I am the son of a prince, you know, like, person in Canaan and send me back and I shouldn't be here. He just received like this terrible situation, but he just must have known God had a plan in it. And he gets in a potterverse house and he just. Instead of being bitter and saying, God, where are you? I'm turning away from you. Instead, he clung to the Lord and serve Potiphar. So that Potiphar's house was just booming. And Potiphar didn't have to do anything because Joseph took care of everything. And then when. But he's still a slave, so it's not like he's in a good situation. And then Potiphar's wife, you know, looks at Joseph, who the Bible describes as very handsome. And Potiphar's wife wants her, wants him, you know, and. And keeps coming at him and he's like, no, no, no. And then finally one day she was just like, come to bed with me. I mean, just flat out is just trying. Grabbing his cloak, trying to pull him to her. And. And this is a fabulous thing to remember that Joseph, he. He dropped. He tore. He took the cloak off and Just ran, he fled. He didn't stick around and be like, you know what? Where has God been in all this? I am suffering, I'm a slave. I, I'm young, I'm ready to go. This woman's good looking. I'm just gonna give in to the temptation because I'm in a pit. I'm in a terrible situation now. But he didn't, he stayed true to God even when life was hard. And I think that is the thing to remember as a young person going through college when everybody else is doing everything and that you stay true. I've got a daughter right now, freshman at Baylor, and, and I just keep challenging her and she keeps living for the Lord and, you know, seeing maybe some people making not great decisions. And I was like, God put you there to be a light and to flee temptation. And if we stick around the temptation, you know, Joseph could have just crumbled and you gotta go. And so anyhow, I just think that's such an important thing to remember that Joseph had every reason in the world's eyes to give in and, and nobody else was really watching. And yet he didn't want to dishonor God. That's what he told her. He was like, how could I do such a thing and dishonor God? And that was his biggest concern. That's what we need.
- [41:44]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yes. He had such an embodiment of, of purity. Like, that could have been such a moment of giving in to, and maybe even kept it kept secret. Right. But it was such a moment of like, I don't live for myself, I live for God. And I'm going to pursue purity in public and in private. And what you're talking about, I, I talk about often of, we can't flirt with sin, we have to flee from sin. And you see that represented in Joseph's life. He's like, I'm not going to flirt with this or see how far I can get or see what I can keep hidden. He's like, I'm fleeing. I'm running as fast as I can. Like, I'm not going to be like, can I get as close to the line? Like, he fled, he ran. It's not the question of how close to sin can we get, but how close to God can I get? How can I pursue holiness with all of my heart? And, and you know, sin is intense with us, and so we got to be intense right back. And Jesus talks about it in Matthew 5, you know, if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. If your right Hand causes you sin, cut it off. And so I talk about that often on the podcast of just like taking sin seriously. And I love that you brought that up, of just fleeing from temptation, not flirting with it, not sticking around, not playing with it, and toying with the idea, but just straight up fleeing. And I, I love that we're talking about this idea of, you know, hardship after hardship with Joseph's life because he did nothing to deserve it. Like, he's this. He's this guy that has lived a life honoring God. He received a dream from God, you know, that he was going to do big things for God. And I think that so often, and probably many people that are listening are like, man, I've been living for God. I've been doing right for God. And yet it feels like I keep, you know, getting kicked to the curb. It feels like I keep getting, you know, bad report after bad report. It feels like I keep suffering. It feels like I keep getting all these hard things, you know, handed to me. And I don't understand why. I have lots of questions within that umbrella and I guess just to start is why do bad things happen to good people? Why do bad things happen to people that are serving God and worshiping God and living for God?
- [43:43]
Anne Graham Lotz
You know, I love that question because it was. My husband went to heaven, and then three years later, my father went to heaven in February. And then that August, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and went through the surgery, chemotherapy, radiation. But even when I was diagnosed, and I remember the radiologist who had done the mammogram, he came to talk to me, brought a box of Kleenex, you know, thinking I was going to cry, and I said, no, you know, God is in control. God, this is not a surprise to God. God is in control. And I, and I knew from the get go that the, the breast cancer was like a platform for me. Just that verse that you just quoted from Peter to display the glory of God so that I could show people if, if I could just by my example, that God allows bad things to happen to people he loves. And it's the cross, isn't it? I mean, Jesus was the most beloved son of the Father, and God allowed him, not allowed him, he sent him to the cross. And, and so, so I think you just have to lift up your eyes that life, you know, Romans 8:28 says, all things work together for good to those who are called according to God's, who love God and are called according to his purpose. And, and our ultimate good is not health, wealth, and Prosperity, our ultimate good is to be conformed to the image of Christ. And so, so I just felt like God gave me a platform and it's amazing how it broadened my reach because there's so many, many, many people, many women who've gone through this and, or are going through it. And so they could identify with me. And for me to be able to encourage them and say it's not a sign that God doesn't love you. It's, or it's not a sign that he's punishing you or that you're not blessed. You know, I don't know why he would allow it, but for me, I know he allowed it to be that example to others that God will see you through, which is the message of our book. Because God saw Joseph through and that's the message of the cross. God saw Jesus through. So then comes the resurrection, the glory and the crown, you know, so, so I feel like God brought me through and I know there'll be people who are watching and maybe your mother or your sister or your daughter didn't come through cancer, maybe their lives were forfeited, maybe they didn't come out in a good way. But, but that's God's deliverance, you know, if you're a child of God, then death is not, death is not final. You know. In fact, my brother in law, my husband's brother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer the same time I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And he, he called me, he said, and he said we're in a win win situation, you know, he said if we die, we're going to go be with Jesus. If we stay here, we can keep, keep serving him and, and he went on to heaven and I'm still here, you know, and that's. The Lord gave me that verse in Philippians. I can't ever quote it right, but you know, to me to live is Christ and it dies gain. But if I go on in this life, then it's because he has more fruitful labor for me. And I had a strong sense of purpose that I was to continue serving the Lord and show other people that bad things do happen to good people and nobody's totally good, but bad, bad things happen to people that he loves. It does not mean he loves you less, does not mean you're not blessed. It's just his plan for your life. And I believe that breast cancer was part of his plan and purpose for my life. So I don't fight it, I don't resist it. I don't want to go through it again. And breast cancer wasn't bad, but the chemotherapy just about did me, so. But anyway, so. So I don't know. There's no real good answer to that except that I know God sees us through. And Joseph, he didn't deserve any of that. And he was brutalized. I mean, I don't know. You know, he was one. One son out of 12. So he had a younger brother, 10 older brothers, and. And out of that whole big family, he was the prince. He was the. He was. So it may be somebody watching or listening. Their whole family maybe gives lip service to the Lord, but they're the only ones really being authentic and truly wanting to be a Jesus follower. And they're the ones that get slammed. Everybody else seems to be going along okay, but. But you just keep your focus on the Lord. Don't quit, don't give up. That was something we're talking about. Joseph never gave up. He never quit. He just continued serving the Lord wherever God placed him. And God then exalted him to second in command of the pharaoh, right?
- [48:06]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah. You talked about hard, like hardship after hardship. And, you know, you going through really the hardest things of your life, kind of back to back. And that's how it feels like it is so often is. It kind of all hits you at one time. And that's, you know, Joseph's life. It felt like it was like one thing after another. I'm curious, like, for those who feel like they're in that place or have gone through that, how do you not lose faith? How do you not lose hope? How do you not grow weary when it feels like, man, I just can't catch a break? It feels like I've been in this hard season for so long. Like, I know the things, but, like, my heart feels hardened or my heart feels angry or my heart feels sad. And I don't know how to continue to stay strong in my faith.
- [48:52]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
I mean, I. I can definitely speak to that because I feel like I've been there so many times. And I mean, I feel like I was going through a hard time anyhow. I mean, just difficult time. My older daughter went through a difficult time. And then, you know, then I had the heart attacks. And then I didn't know it was PTSD at the time, but I had that. That felt like heart attacks. You know, I was going to. I went to the ER like 12 times in three years. And then I had blood clots in my lungs. I ended up having a mini stroke during that time. And so it was every day I'm like, oh, I had chest pain. Oh, what, what is that? And then, you know, I mean, it was just constant. But what kept me grounded was staying close to Jesus. When you go through difficulties and hardships, we can sit and think about them and dwell on them, which is easy to do, or you just dive into the Word and get to know who our suffering Savior is.
- [49:50]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Stay True podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [50:10]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
And you see all these stories, you can go back. I love the Old Testament. You read all these stories about all these different characters and the things that they went through or the mistakes they made or whatever. And then you see how Jesus came to the earth and nothing was easy about his life and he could have picked a cushy time to come to the planet and he didn't. And, and he, he suffered. And so if Jesus wasn't exempt from that, in a sense, you know, I mean, we, we have to look at it as through. Like you look at the story of Joseph, God had a plan in everything. He had a plan in the fact that he had jealous brothers, he had a plan in the fact that his dad favored him. He had a plan. And the fact that he was in Potiphar's house to learn the, the Egyptian language, to learn the culture, to learn how to manage a household. And, and then he had a plan when he went to prison and he managed that got closer to where the, the Pharaoh was, and then that door opened up. But it was almost 14 years. Excuse me, 14 years that he was suffering all that time. And he didn't give up at like year eight and say, God, where are you? I am still here. And what are you doing? You know, I have a better plan for my life. And, and that's the thing. Don't give up. Don't give up. And you have to trust, like we were talking yesterday, that you have to trust in the goodness of God. He is a good father. And if he's allowed it in your life, there is a reason. And he's not like, he doesn't do things on a whim like, ah, let's just toss this trial on this. Like, every single thing is to make you stronger, give you great character, to make you compassionate for somebody else who's Going through that to make you closer to Jesus so that you understand a bit of what he went through. And, and, and all of it is just so that you cling to Jesus. And I. I feel like, you know, the. The more that I go through, the more that even look back at my life. I just love Jesus. I just can't be without him. I. I was telling somebody too, that I just. I go to bed at night and I just picture myself holding Jesus's hand. Like, I just. You. And it's not like everything's great for me, you know, it's. There's just been so much, so many things. And yet Jesus is my everything. So hang in there. If you're. If you're going through it and you're discouraged, the enemy wants you to be like, to question God, where are you, God? You know, you don't care about me. You don't love me. And that is. I mean, just knock him off your shoulder. I rebuke that. I'm not listening to that talk because Jesus is the one that is for me. You know, we're not promised health, wealth and prosperity. We live in a fallen world. It is gonna be hard because life stinks in that way. But. But Jesus can be your everything, your comforter.
- [52:59]
Anne Graham Lotz
But I think one of the other things, it's not just an emotional love for him, but he. He spoke to you through his words. So. So stay in the Word and. And read your Bible, listening for a voice to speak to you through it. So a verse would leap up off the page or something. So when you're. You think you're just at the rock bottom and you can't go another date, then the Lord just leans out of heaven and speaks to you, and then you can, you know, put one foot in front of the other and keep going.
- [53:25]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
Yeah, because that was right after when I had this scads. Then I go home and every little thing, I'm like, oh, am I having another one? You know, And I was in the Word every day. And the verse he gave me, it just jumped off the page in a sense. It just, you know, your heart starts beating a little faster, and you just know God's speaking to you. And it said, you will not go that way again. And I knew that my shepherd was telling me, you're not going to have it again. And so then it was three years of. In four years, it's been four years just trusting the Lord. I had heart pain last night, and I was like, okay. I start going over the promises God gave me. And, and we just, you know, it's all. We just learn. We just learn through life's experiences. The faithfulness of God and having him
- [54:08]
Madison Pruitt Trout
as the foundation is what keeps us secure in insecure times. You know, it's what keeps us peaceful and chaotic times. And the anchor, you know, I. I love to both of your points of what you're saying. It's like, I don't understand why. Like, I don't. There. There are times where it's like, I don't know why. I don't know why this is happening, but I'm gonna choose to trust. I'm gonna choose to put my faith in him and in heaven. And faith is the confidence of what we hope for, the assurance of what we don't see. So it's like we can't just look through the lens of our physical eyes, but our spiritual eyes of God. I'm going to choose to trust you, though. I don't understand why this is happening. And it's so hard and, you know, acknowledging those emotions, you know, laying it out, the casting your cares on him, but then choosing to just cling to his truth, like you're saying, it reminds me of Matthew 7, of just a house that is built on a flesh, firm foundation, so that when storms come, because storms will come. That's what he tells us in John 16. You know, in this world, you will have trouble. It's a promise there will be trouble. Whether you believe in God or you don't, you know, you're going to have trouble. But for those of us who believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have a hope that can't be taken. You know, we have a hope that can't be shaken, because when the storms come, it's like, our hope is in heaven, our hope is in Jesus, and. And he keeps us, you know, firm in those times. And as we kind of, you know, head towards the end of the podcast, I do want to ask you a question on something you were talking about of, like, you know, when you were diagnosed with. Is it scad? Scad? And you went through all of that, how did you. How did you process through, like, the fear of. How did you work through the fear of, like, the what ifs? Like, what if this comes back? What if this, like, you were talking about the ptsd? I just, I know. That's so real. And the spirit of fear, fear has plagued this generation in so many different ways, and it can feel so paralyzing, and it's one of the enemy's biggest targets. And tools against us to keep us from living, you know, dependent on him, from living on mission and a life of purpose. I've seen it come at me in one way, my husband, another way, my family and friends. And so just curious how, how you were able to just attack that spirit of fear and. And say fear, you're a liar. I'm not going to listen. But how did, like, how did you work through that when it was very real, like physical things you were going
- [56:34]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
through and feelings you were having, it just became crippling. I mean, it was just really, really hard to go through that because I didn't know. I mean, before the heart attacks, I heard people talk about anxiety. I was like, what are they talking about? Like, I don't understand quite what that was. And then, boom, you know, it's like, okay, that's what this is. And I was just. Just so afraid. And. And I feel like the Lord's just opened my eyes too, to how the enemy can come in. In a situation that, you know, I couldn't help having. The heart attacks. And then that's where the fear of whatever, you know, maybe you've been abused or maybe you've had the heart, you know, heart problems or cancer or scary situation, you know, whatever, someday walking down the street and. And just that trigger can cause the panic attacks or, you know, whatever it is. And so I had to attack it. But sometimes you need help. And. And so there was a day I had gone the 12th time to the ER three years ago, and. And I was like, I just. Lord, I can't do this. I. I'm so tired of hurting and feeling like this and this, you know, all that feeling of that anxiety. And there's. I pray with some ladies out in California every Monday, and one of them had just called me and. And she said, rich, Ruth. I was. She wasn't even. I didn't even tell her what I had just prayed. And she had a friend that had just prayed over her over against the spirit of fear. I was like, give me your number. I wanna call her. And. And so she had just prayed over me and just to. Just to remove that spirit of fear. And. And I think mine was like an epic level of, like, badness, you know, And. And so I'm not saying that everybody has it, but just, you can go to your pastor, you can go to your friend, have people pray over you. And. And I think we can. We don't have anything to be afraid of in this spirit world. We do have an enemy, the demonic world that Wants to attack us and cause us to. And I think fear is a biggest calling card nowadays, you know, over the world. But, but we could just come before the, you know, with the Lord's power and just bind the enemy like I've been taught. You can pray like Elijah did when he prayed down. Fire. Just in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I command Holy Spirit Fire to burn up any, you know, anything that's coming against me, any kind of curse or like, fear or anxiety. And so I've just. So many times, it's just like, then this peace just settles over me. And I think it's just the power of prayer when you pray and, and know even if we're just like, we feel like little wimps when we come, it's like Jesus stands in front of us and we're just, we just pray and he gives us the, the ability, the power, the blessing of using his name. And you pray against that. Then the Lord just steps in and he can, he can really do a work and heal and, and then staying in the words, taking those promises, you know, prayer and claiming the promises. And he will see you through. He will see you through. And so it's, it's, it's not an easy road, but. But God is victorious, so you're not going to stay in that. Amen.
- [60:03]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah, those are the three I always speak to. Is. Is God's word, God's people, God's spirit, you know, that, that intimate time in prayer, claiming, you know, partnering with God's spirit and just claiming the promises of God, the word of God, and coming around the people of God, having them pray for you. James 5 talks about it, you know, confess to one another, have them pray for you, and you will be healed. Like, there's, there's healing in that. Prayer is powerful and effective. So thank you for sharing that and speaking to that. I, I know that that is so real for so many, whether it's, you know, related to health, whether it's. They've watched someone they love suffer and go through something hard, they've lost someone, whatever it may be that can trigger those, like, panic and fearful of like, what ifs or just like panic attacks, anxiety attacks. I've walked a lot of people that I, I really love through that. And so thank you for sharing that. I know that that's very helpful. Okay, I have two quick questions because I know Leah's in the back. Like, I know we need to wrap up, but I just love you guys and I have so many questions. One, one Question. And you kind of hinted at it of just like we, we have a God that is so for us. And we also have a very real enemy who wants to see us, you know, destroyed. Who, who comes to steal, kill and destroy. What role do. Does God and the enemy play in, in suffering and in like just in our day to day life? Because I know sometimes we can have these moments of like, man, is what I'm going through because of a sin I committed? Is it because the enemy hates me and this is spiritual warfare or is this God, you know, disciplining me because I'm supposed to be like pure gold and he's removing the impurities and he's making me stronger? And how do we, like, how do we discern in those moments? Does it even matter to know that answer? Just curious what you would say the, the role of kind of God and the enemy. Especially when you look at the story of like Job and Joseph and people like that.
- [62:02]
Anne Graham Lotz
Well, my life belongs to the Lord, not to the enemy. So. And it's interesting, in the Garden of Gethsemane, or excuse me, I guess at the Last Supper, Jesus took the cup that represented his blood, that would represent the death. The worst thing the enemy could possibly come up with is putting Jesus on a cross. And Jesus took the cup and he gave thanks for it and thanked his Father for it. So, so even Jesus took what was a huge attack from the devil, but he took it from his Father's hand knowing that it could never happen. Had, had God not allowed it. And so I will say this, that suffering is not punishment for sin. Now you can suffer consequences if you cheat on your income taxes and you get caught and you go to jail. Well, that's your not your fault, you know, or, but, but God will never punish your sin. But suffering, the wages of sin is death. And Jesus took that suffering, he took death for us in our place. So that when I was a little girl, eight or nine, but I, after watching a movie about Jesus on TV and coming to the scene of the cross, I got down on my knees, told God I was sorry for the wrong things I'd done, bad things, you know, and, and I wanted the death of Jesus. If, if he looked over the whole world, he would know if nobody else, it was worth it for Ann because she confessed her sin, asked him to ask him to forgive me, claimed him as my Savior, believed he rose from the dead, invited him to come into my life as my Lord. And, and I was born again into God's family. And so I've shared this before, but Rachel was little. You know, she's getting into something with the neighbor's kids. I send them back home, but I take care of her, you know, And. And God takes care of his children. So when we belong to him by faith in Jesus, he takes responsibility for us. So. So yes, the enemy can come at us like Job. But if you remember, in Job, Job had to get God's permission to even touch him, you know, and he never could take his life.
- [63:57]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
The enemy had to get.
- [63:58]
Anne Graham Lotz
Yeah, sorry. He had to get permission from God to touch Job. So. So I don't. Look, things that happen in my life, I don't take them from them. I know when I was diagnosed with cancer, I had a friend say, and this is the enemy. And I didn't feel that. I felt like God had allowed it, maybe, that maybe it was from the enemy. And I know cancer is just a plague, but, but, But God allowed it because he knew he would use it in my life to not only deepen me, give me a greater platform, but I knew he would bring me through. And if he didn't bring me through in this life, then he's going to take me to heaven, and that's fine, you know, so. So I don't know. Those are hard questions. But. But I. I hide my life in Christ. So he is my hiding place and he's my shield. So if the enemy comes at me, he's got to go through my shield first. If I stay close to my shield, then I still may get attacked, but it's going to be softened. So if I step away from my shield or the distance, put distance between myself and the shield, then the enemy can come full blast. So the important thing, Jesus is your shield. You stay close to him through prayer, Bible study, submission, surrendering to him obedience, and you stay close. Then. Then anything that comes into your life, you can take from your Father's hand, and he's going to see you through.
- [65:11]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Amen. I love that response because I think too often we give the enemy so much credit, and it's just like, oh, everything. Spiritual warfare, everything's the enemy. And, And I. I'm so with you of just like standing in authority and standing in not fighting for victory, but living from it, knowing I've received victory from my God, my King, and greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.
- [65:31]
Anne Graham Lotz
And let me just interject for a minute because Rachel Ruth has become very powerful in prayer, praying against the enemy. So I don't want to lessen that. Okay. Because I know the enemy is alive and well and vicious and he wants to take God's people out. So, yes, we do have to put on our full armor. And then one of the pieces, offensive armor is, is to pray, you know, and to pray. And she's. She's learned. I get her to pray for me. She prays powerful prayers that were one huge prayer that was answered this past week in a miraculous way. So. So yes, we do have to come against him in prayer and the Word. But. But if it comes into my life, I take it from God's hand.
- [66:09]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah. Amen. Anything else you would love to add to that? I mean, that's. It's so true. It's like. And I love that you said prayer is a part of the armor of God, because that's something I, I realized and picked up on that I feel like not many people talk about. And I think it just is what brings it. It all together. But it is. It's that daily stance against, you know, but it. But it's James4.7 that says, Submit to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you.
- [66:37]
Anne Graham Lotz
Four times it comes back, yeah, yeah.
- [66:39]
Madison Pruitt Trout
And that's a command. But it first starts with a submission to God. And so it's recognizing the God you belong to, the God who is on your side, the God of angel armies. But also there is a peace of resisting the devil. And again, you see that even in Joseph's life when the temptation came, like there was a resistance and he had
- [66:59]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
made that choice to follow the Lord and honor the Lord, like you said. And I think one of the thoughts that came to my mind is, we all are going to suffer. I mean, we're all going to have hard things. And so out of Joseph's life, I think the thing that blew me away is he didn't ever get bitter. He wasn't bitter. And I think bitterness can. Can knock on our door every single day. And we have to recognize it and put it out of our lives that we don't allow the suffering that is going to happen to rot us. In a sense, we've just got to let it make us stronger. Like I've talked about not being a wimpy Christian. I want to be a warrior for the Lord. I want to have a backbone, you know, I don't want to crumble. And so when these things happen, it's like, okay, Lord, what are you going to teach me? You know, I want to know what to do. And I think we just change our perspective on thinking why you know, I wanted to go on a vacation or I wanted to have, you know, the boyfriend that I've always wanted or whatever, but. But God's got a reason for it. And one day we will be in heaven where there's no more pain, no more sorrow, no more tears, no more bad people, bad memories, you know, suffering. And we'll spend the whole rest of eternity just in fellowship and serving the Lord. This is. This is like our boot camp. And. And so, yes, we can expect hard things, but. But just make the choice to honor the Lord in him, to dive into his word, to get to know him through whatever it is you're going through, even if it's a long time. God has a. Has a purpose. He hasn't forgotten about you. He says his eyes on you. If anyone touches you, it's like touching the apple of his eyes. So sensitive, you get something in your eyes like, ah. And. And that means the Lord is so sensitive to what you're going through. He is a compassionate, loving God. He's not a high priest that never experienced anything. He knows way more than when he was on the cross to be beaten, to be abused, to be, you know, cursed, all the horrible things that we can think of. He took it on and felt. It's just a. You just can't even imagine the emotional pain of being on the cross, despite all the physical pain. So Jesus understands and you can run to him and cling to him and keep those short accounts. Confess your sins, you know, every day. Think about it, Lord. Show me what it is that I need to confess. What. What did I do wrong? What I. You know, and keep those short accounts. So it stays. That communication stays.
- [69:38]
Anne Graham Lotz
So not for forgiveness, because once you've confessed your sin and you come to the cross and receive Jesus Savior, you're forgiven of all your sin, past, present, future, so you can just enjoy your forgiveness. But we come back every day, as you said, the confessions and to keep the relationship fresh, you know, to keep it intimate so nothing comes between us and the Lord.
- [69:56]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Amen. I love that you touched on that. He didn't get bitter and he didn't let unforgiveness harbor in his heart. Because Ephesians 6 talks about. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood. But it would have been really easy in his story to stay offended and to stay bitter at flesh and blood because his own blood betrayed him and sold him into slavery and was the reason for all of his. His hardship and pain. And it can be really easy when we go through really Hard things, especially if it was something that was done to us and something that felt like it was fully out of our control to remain bitter and to hold on to unforgiveness. But there's so much power, as Scripture talks about in. In Matthew 6, you know, you have been forgiven. You're called to forgive. And even Jesus's, you know, some of his very last words was, father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And if he can forgive us, then who are we to withhold that forgiveness to others, even the very ones who wrong us? And so I love that you touched on that. And that's. That's so powerful because that's a part of living just a free and bold life for Jesus and. And experiencing also, just like the redemption story that's to come if we're holding on, if we give the enemy a foothold by holding on to that unforgiveness, that could keep us from all that God has for us and how he wants to use our strength story and how he was ultimately able to use Joseph's story. So thank you for sharing that. I'd love for you to just close us in prayer and. And to just pray over those who are listening and watching. You know, she was hyping up your prayer life. I was like, come on, let's get
- [71:27]
Rachel Ruth Lotz
to pray the hours down. But okay. Oh, heavenly Father, Lord, we just love you. What a blessing it is just to sit here and talk about you and look at the life of Joseph. And, Lord, it's just unbelievable. And sometimes, you know, maybe somebody listening is just overwhelmed. And how could I be a Joseph? You know, And. And Lord, I just love the fact that you are right there with him and you are our champion. You are the one that walks beside us. You love us, Lord. You cheer us on. You pick us up when we fall down. Lord, you are everything. And you are our suffering Savior that knows what it's like to hurt and to have people betray you and turn their backs on you and pull out your beard and do such awful things, Lord. And yet you loved us. You didn't just walk away and not go to the cross, Lord, you. You completed it at the cross so that we could have that relationship with you and go to heaven one day, Lord. So, Father, we thank you so much for not leaving us here, but. But creating us and giving us purpose, Lord, giving us a plan for our lives and walking us through it, Lord, and loving us. And so for anybody who is listening to this and is suffering and maybe has tears down their Face right now, just wanting to get out, get out of the pit, get out of what feels like an enslavement, Lord. Get out of a prison cell of life circumstances, Lord, you're the one to turn to. So, Father, would you just draw them to yourself? Would you let them know how present you are, Lord? Would you set them free from the things that are attacking them, Lord? Would you give them a clear path out, Lord? Would you speak to them through your word? And would you encourage them and give them promises that give them hope, Lord? And would you bring people alongside them to encourage them, Lord, Mentors and friendships, Lord, Sometimes it's hard to find a Christian friend nowadays, Lord, somebody that's really walking with you. So, Lord, I pray that you would bring godly friends, Lord, to set that example and to pray for each other. And. And Father, I do pray for everybody listening, Lord, I just ask in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. I pray that Holy Spirit firewall of protection around every person as we walk in these last days before you return, Lord, when the enemy is out there wanting to harm us, discourage us, cause us to be afraid, Lord, I pray that you would just surround them with your Holy Spirit firewall of protection, Lord, that you would guard their hearts, guard their minds. Lord, the enemy wants to go after our minds and, and put all these thoughts in our heads. Lord, would you stop it right now in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth and give them thoughts of peace, Lord, and comfort and, um. And Lord, anybody who is suffering so much to the point that they want to harm themselves, Lord, please, Father, would you wrap your arms around them and stop that from happening, Lord? Let them know how important they are in your eyes, Lord, that you love them and you want to walk them through life and give them a plan, Lord, and. And so would you envelop them in your love, Lord? Let them know that they were created from. For a purpose, Lord, and let them turn to you. Let them drop to their knees, Lord, and just surrender their lives to you wholeheartedly because you are worth it, Lord. And we thank you so much for just your presence, Lord, that you. You never leave us, never forsake us when we ask you to come live inside of us in the person of the Holy Spirit, when we ask you, tell you we're sorry for your sins, for our sins, and we ask you to forgive us. And you come inside and cleanse us, Lord, and your Holy Spirit is there with us as our comforter, our counselor. Lord, we thank you that you don't Leave us alone. You're Emmanuel, God with us. And so for these days that are left, until you return, Lord, I pray that there would be an army of women and men, whoever's listening, Lord, that would choose to be a Joseph, choose to walk with you, Lord. Choose not to wimp out, not to to crumble, Lord, but to have a backbone and say, I'm going to stand for you, Lord. And I pray that you would raise up an army to be a witness in these last days, Lord, I pray your blessing over everyone listening, Lord, that blessing of Ephraim and Manasseh, that they would forget the pains of the past and be prosperous and blessed in the future as Jacob prayed over Joseph's sons in those last chapters. So, Father, we love you. We commit this whole time to you, this podcast. Lord, would you bless Maddie as she continues to speak into this fabulous young generation, Lord, and use the wisdom, the words that you've given her and I pray your protection over her life, her family, her precious little girl, Lord, that she would raise up another Jesus follower. And so we pray all this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.
- [76:32]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Amen. You were right, prayer warrior over here. I'm about to be sending you my prayer request. So good. Thank you so much for coming on. Stay True. Stay true. So much better because of you and because of this message. And I'm going to be sure to link. God won't leave you there, as well as just where you guys can follow them and their ministry and everything that they're doing and how they're changing the world and how you guys can be a part of it. And so thank you again so much for coming on. And I'm so grateful for conversations around hardship and suffering. And just also a reminder that heaven is our home. And a reminder that Psalm 16 tells us that in his presence there is fullness of joy. And so no matter what you're going through, he's where the joy is. And so grateful. And as always, guys, be sure to stay you and stay true. We love you. Stay True podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at Progressive Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great you love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.