My Calling In Life.. Can I Miss it? with Annie F. Downs

Summary

Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt

Episode: My Calling in Life… Can I Miss it? with Annie F. Downs
Date: December 8, 2025
Guests: Madison Prewett Troutt (Host), Annie F. Downs

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Episode Overview

In this candid, heartfelt, and joy-filled episode, Madison Prewett Troutt and bestselling author and speaker Annie F. Downs dive deep into the topics of calling, contentment, singleness, and abundant life. The conversation covers Annie’s personal journey from teaching to full-time ministry, handling life’s delays and detours, trusting God’s plans, and practical wisdom on seeking purpose wherever you are. With vulnerability and humor, they dismantle cultural and spiritual myths around missing your calling, idolizing marriage, and how to stay true to God’s truth in every season.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Annie’s Journey: From Teaching to Writing & Speaking (07:46–13:49)

• Annie’s Roots: Raised in Atlanta, Annie shares about becoming a Christian at age five and her early struggle with secret sins.
• Teaching Years: Taught elementary school for five years, intentionally pouring into her students:

  “I would bring my guitar and make up songs… I wanted them to understand why it was funny. I was teaching them how to be funny!” (09:28 – Annie)

• Launching Her Writing Career: Annie wrote her first book as a homemade curriculum for her Bible study girls.

  “At the end of that semester, one of the girls says, ‘Will you print me one more of these and staple it like a book so I can give it to a friend?’ ...Did I just write a book?” (10:25 – Annie)

• Perseverance & Rejection: 47 rejections before publishing her first book, ‘Perfectly Unique,’ six years after writing it.

  "God is in the details and in the big picture." (13:49 – Annie)

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2. Finding and Living Your Calling (15:47–20:46)

• Dealing with Career Uncertainty:

  “One of the biggest things people DM me about is struggling with their career path and what they feel called to do. Am I doing what God made me to do?" (15:47 – Madison)

• Rejecting the ‘Chutes & Ladders’ Mentality:
  Annie illustrates how life is not about hitting the wrong square and “sliding back to start”—God’s will is not that fragile.

  “I just don't think if you are pursuing God, you can miss what he has for you… God is just so much more generous than we give him credit for.” (17:40 – Annie)

• Advice for Uncertainty: Take wise risks, invite trusted voices in, and try—even if it means making mistakes.

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3. Abundant Life in All Seasons (22:45–27:29)

• Joy & Fun in Following Jesus:
  “You make following Jesus look so fun and cool!” (22:45 – Madison)
• The “If-Then” Fallacy:
  Annie shares her own struggle of believing “if I do it right, I’ll get what I want,” and how ultimately, abundant life is about obeying God, not bargaining with Him.
• Don’t Wait to Fully Live:

  “I had this cheap comforter on my bed…My narrative was, when I get married, I'm going to get a nice comforter…I slept under that comforter for five or six years. What are you doing? It’s a comforter. Get the comforter.” (24:36 – Annie)

• Grieving What You Don’t Have, Embracing What You Do:

  “Abundant life doesn't come when you tell yourself you have everything. Abundant life is when you tell yourself the truth and then you get excited about what this makes possible.” (30:57 – Annie)

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4. Contentment, Entitlement & Idolizing Marriage (34:21–41:04)

• Why Do We Idolize Marriage?
  “Why is marriage such a deep desire and often an idol?” (34:21 – Madison)
• Cultural and Scriptural Roots:
  Annie explores historical and biblical reasons for women’s longing for marriage, and the modern tension between independence and intimacy.
• Dealing with Entitlement and Self-Righteousness:
  The danger of the “older brother” mentality—“I think I deserve better than this...because a lot of people are watching I thought I was going to get a perfect story.” (38:52 – Annie)
• Commanding Your Heart to Hope:

  “Sometimes you have to command your heart, like put your trust in God.” (41:04 – Madison)

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5. Singleness as a Gift and Living in the In-Between (45:46–52:05)

• Reframing Singleness:
  “The gift of singleness is the one that people feel like is a backpack they can't take off…but can you look at the life God has given you and say this is a gift?” (46:46 – Annie)
• Freedom and Opportunity:
  “I get to do what I want…I’m running after God and I listen to his direction…but I kind of get to do what I want.” (47:45 – Annie)
• God as True Husband: Annie recounts times God tangibly “showed up” as her provider and protector.

  “In Isaiah, God says, I am your husband... There have been times where I have…said, if you’re my husband, what would you do here? Help me.” (48:16 – Annie)
  “No one will have loved me as long as Jesus did. No partner will have been through as many seasons with me as Jesus has.” (51:42 – Annie)

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6. Intimacy with God & Constant Connection (52:26–58:12)

• Don't Compartmentalize Your Faith:
  “It would be so weird if [my husband] was compartmentalized into a really small aspect of my life…He is everywhere…” (53:30 – Madison)
• Practical Tips:
  “I can talk all the time, for sure. So in the car, I can say, Lord, that does not make any sense. Or, what are you doing? Or, can you help me?” (54:33 – Annie)
• Invite God Into Everything:
  “Anything you want help with, we can ask the Lord...Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you how to flirt...Why would He not want to teach you how to be good at romantic relationship?” (55:43 – Annie)

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7. Staying True: Integrity, Scripture, & Accountability (58:15–67:38)

• Building Integrity in Small Things:

  “If I put something in my grocery cart and decide I don’t want it, I take it back to where I got it from…Little opportunities to have high integrity build muscles that you need in big opportunities.” (58:44 – Annie)

• No Secrets Life:

  “Little white lies lead to medium sized…then you’re in a mess and you’re not living with high integrity...Trust is lost in buckets and gained in drops.” (59:53 – Annie)

• The Power of Hiding God’s Word:
  Madison and Annie share about memorizing scripture and the transforming power of knowing it by heart.

  “If you memorize scripture…when people come to you, you’re able to give them God’s word and not your opinion.” (62:47 – Madison)

• Accountability:

  “I don’t have secrets. I don’t have a secret life. You stay true by being high integrity, being in the Word, accountability, no secrets.” (64:56 – Annie)

• Freedom is in the Light:

  “If you’re spinning lies or have a secret life you’re trying to protect, get it out now!...You want an abundant life? You can do whatever you want when you don’t have secrets.” (66:08 – Annie)

• Being Faithful in the Little Things:

  “When you’re faithful with the small, God can entrust you…When we’re not faithful with the small things, it leads to really big, bad things.” (66:29 – Madison)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Singleness and God’s Faithfulness:
  “No one will have loved me as long as Jesus did. No partner will have been through as many seasons with me as Jesus has. Nobody matters to me like he does… And that’s what makes it fun: I’ve got the safetiest safety net ever because I got Jesus.”
  (51:42 – Annie)

• On Calling:
  “If you are pursuing God, I do not think you can miss what he has for you. You can’t miss the job, the city, the partner, the plan he has for you.”
  (17:40 – Annie)

• On Contentment:
  “Abundant life doesn’t come when you tell yourself you have everything. Abundant Life is when you tell yourself the truth and then you get excited about what does this make possible.”
  (30:57 – Annie)

• On Practicing Integrity:
  “Every day you’re given the chance to do little things that let you work on that muscle…If you will practice telling the truth when the consequences are low, when you’re really having to stay true when the consequences are high, you’ve already got those muscles.”
  (58:44, 60:13 – Annie)

• On Confession & Freedom:
  “I didn’t experience true freedom from that sin (pornography) until I confessed it and brought it into the light.”
  (67:13 – Madison)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Annie’s Early Story: 07:46–13:49
• Questions about Calling / Chutes & Ladders Metaphor: 16:36–18:14
• Abundant Life, Joy, and Contentment: 22:45–27:29
• Marriage, Entitlement, Idolatry: 34:21–41:04
• Singleness as a Gift, God as Husband: 45:46–52:05
• Praying Without Ceasing, Practicing His Presence: 52:26–58:12
• Staying True: Integrity, Confession, Scripture: 58:15–67:38

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Final Encouragement & Prayer (69:59–71:11)

Annie closes with an invitation to open hands before God, releasing control and entrusting desires and unmet expectations to Him, seeking to live with high integrity, joy, and gratitude for today:

“Thank you that you are our portion and our cup and our lot is secure today. We are grateful. Holy Spirit, would you just do whatever you want to do in our lives today. Teach us. Help us. We are just leaning on you. We love you. In Jesus’ name, Amen.”
(70:21–71:11 – Annie)

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Key Takeaways

• You cannot “miss” God’s calling if you are pursuing Him.
• Abundance and joy are available wherever you are, regardless of relationship status or unmet dreams.
• Waiting seasons, singleness, and detours are not evidence of missing out but are opportunities to grow deeper with God.
• Integrity and authenticity in the small things form the foundation for staying true to God and yourself in big moments.
• True contentment comes from focusing on what you have, taking all things to God, and living every moment in His presence.

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This episode is rich in practical wisdom, real-life examples, and encouragement for anyone navigating uncertainty, longing, or struggle to trust God with their calling and season of life. Madison and Annie provide a safe, joy-filled space, consistently reminding listeners: you can’t miss what God has for you if you’re following Him. Live with integrity, gratitude, and openness, one day at a time.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

How do you view singleness as a gift?

[B]

If you are pursuing God, I do not think you can miss what he has for you.

[A]

Why marriage and idol? And why in singleness do we lack contentment in the season that God has us in?

[B]

Scripture never said abundant life was for people who had everything they wanted because nobody has everything they want.

[A]

But what does that look like practically for you to wake up in the morning and say I'm going to make the most of today.

[B]

I taught school for five years.

[A]

Teacher Annie I would have loved to be in your class.

[B]

I don't know that they learned anything, but we had a ball.

[A]

What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host Madison Pruitt Trout and I am in the Podcast studio with one of my dear friends, Annie.

[B]

Up down. Hi, friend.

[A]

I can't believe this is actually your first time coming on Stay True podcast.

[B]

I didn't realize that until today. And I was like. Like, in my heart, I thought I'd already done it too. So we both been on this podcast.

[A]

Like five times because of just how.

[B]

Much I love you.

[A]

You live in Nashville, Tennessee.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you also live part time in New York City.

[B]

Yeah, I have for the last two years. That breaking news, I'm packing it up this week to just come here full time. Yeah. And so my friends who own my apartment in New York are selling it because they weren't living there. Obviously I was living there and so they're selling it. And because I'm going on tour this fall, there's just a lot. There was a real clear. In July, I kind of sat with the Lord and was like, what do we do next? And it just felt like, pack it up. But maybe like, I don't have to let go of ever living in New York and Nashville again at the same time or moving up there, but for the next season. Okay, it's getting packed up. I feel a lot of feelings, honestly.

[A]

I'm selfishly excited because maybe that means we can get.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We'll be there.

[B]

That will actually be here.

[A]

Actually go on our walk.

[B]

It has really messed my social life to live part time in each church, honestly.

[A]

But you're super plugged into a local church here, which I love and respect. And then you. We were living very close. When Grant and I were living in the apartments, we were like four or five minutes away from each other. And we were like, we need to go on all these walks. And then it never did.

[B]

We never did.

[A]

So we're gonna.

[B]

Our hearts were right.

[A]

Our hearts are. We had really big hopes, high hopes, unmet expectations.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Life happens. We get it. But Annie is a best selling author. She also has her own podcast called that Sounds Fun, which I've been on. And it was fun. It was really good.

[B]

Thank you. It was fun.

[A]

You have a really great podcast and you're going on a tour soon, which you just alluded to and mentioned, called Live in Color.

[B]

Live and in Color. Live and in Color. Yeah. With Kane, the band. Yes, with Kane.

[A]

You guys, I want to go to this.

[B]

I think it's going to be so fun. I've never done 40 cities.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's.

[B]

So that is 10 weeks that I get on a bus Wednesday night. We do a show Thursday Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And we bus home Sunday night in four different cities. Bus home Sunday night, get here Monday morning and then do it again. Girl, I know. So here were my two options. I could either be on the crew bus, which is like a bunch of dudes, or be on the bus with two of the Kane families that, that has four kids under four. Here's my problem. Which one did you choose? I always fall in love with crew guys. They are so irresistible to me. And the thing I didn't want was like a 10 week crush. Cuz in 10 weeks we would go from oh he's cute to like oh we should. And it would start and break up over the 10 weeks and I thought, I can't sleep on a bus with them. I will fall in love with someone. And so I decided to live with the children. Honestly, it was so fun. And better hours, really. I mean they're going to wake up in a normal morning and that's true.

[A]

Honestly, they'll go to bed early.

[B]

Yeah. And a lot of crew buses and a lot of tours. You stay up until you've done two, three in the morning and then you're sleeping until nine or ten. And that just isn't my like life rhythm anyway. So I'm like, nah, give me the kids, it'll be safer for my heart.

[A]

And my sleep schedule is next level.

[B]

Yeah, you have to like I have.

[A]

Not done that life yet.

[B]

Oh, I thought you had. You haven't slept on. Okay. It is a different, it is a real different thing because you have to let me tell you the two things I think you need to know if you ever. So Jonathan Paluda JP and I toured together. He is too tall for a bunk. He never told me until after the tour that every night his knees were like poking out of his bunk. I had no idea. He's such a servant hearted. Two things. You always sleep with your feet toward the driver. So you can't put your head towards the driver because if they slam on the brakes, you don't want your head down there, you want your feet down there. And so you always sleep with your feet. Yeah, you always sleep with your feet towards the driver. Exactly. So I'm telling you. And no, number two is on the bus only if you have to do something besides pee. What?

[A]

What if it's the middle of the night?

[B]

You have to go tell the driver no and he has to stop at a gas station and when you get off to go, you leave your driver's license with the bus driver or in the bus driver's seat. If he's filling up on gas, you leave your driver's license in his seat. So he doesn't drive away because everyone's sleeping. He doesn't know if anybody's gotten off or not. So if there's no licenses in a seat, he drives away. And if you're inside getting cheetos and he drives away, the bus drives away without you.

[A]

So have you ever had a situation where you've had to go tell the bus?

[B]

Yeah, I was sick, I was throwing up.

[A]

No.

[B]

And we had to stop the bus. Yeah, it was bad.

[A]

That just feels like a mortifying experience. Hey, I need to go number two.

[B]

Yeah, but it happened by like, by like show three, you're just kinda like, everybody goes to the bathroom. Like and, and the other thing is the other 11 people that are sleeping, they don't know you stopped to go to the bathroom because if you're sleeping, you, you may notice that you stop. The only time I really notice where the bus is is when I wake up in the morning. I'll open my maps and just be. Where am I? I'll be like, oh, we're still on the interstate. Or oh, we're already parked at the church. Or oh, we're already parked at the theater. And so that is really the only time that I look at my phone is when I want to figure out where I am.

[A]

Now is there like, do you have like a coffee station on the bus?

[B]

Yeah, there's a kitchen. And so you'll be able to, we'll be able to make our teas and coffees in the morning. And there's usually a fridge, the bathroom. That's exactly right. So if you have your. Yeah, so we've done one. One time I came, we came home from Houston and it's 15 hours home from Houston. And so you are, you leave the show, you may be. And there's hours that bus drivers can drive. Who cares? It's none of our business. You leave maybe at midnight, but you're not getting home until lunchtime. And so for sure people get up and have coffee and for sure you have to stop at gas stations. And. But that, but a lot of times, like most of our runs that we'll do for this tour, when we come home on Mondays, we'll get home at 5 or 6 in the morning. And so then we just get in our car droopy eyed, drive home, take a shower, get back in bed.

[A]

That is wild. Okay, so give me into more of your story testimony. You're, you know, you're touring, you're doing all these amazing things, but where did you start? Where'd you grow up? And how did you get here?

[B]

So I grew up outside. Well, I like to say I was born and raised in Atlanta, but I didn't grow up till I moved to Nashville.

[A]

Yeah, she's a Georgia fan, you guys.

[B]

Yeah. Go Dogs. But it's okay. We survived that. We survived that. Yeah. And I became a Christian when I was five. I really meant it, and I really remember it really clearly. I jokingly say a lot that the Lord was like, I don't need her to be a teenager without me. Like, it was be too much work for the Lord. So he was like, can I get her while she's way down there? And. And so what that meant is I grew up in the church. I grew up pursuing God as best you know how when you're 11 and when you're 13 and when you're 18. And I was a sinner. I had a lot. I kind of got in this situation. I was publicly one thing, and I was privately something else, because I was a Christian, and I was known for being a Christian, and I prayed for my friends. I was real involved in youth group. And also I had been exposed to pornography really young. And so I Struggling with the secret, sexual, sinful life that only involved me, but I had. And I didn't always tell the truth. And I. You know, all my. All my sins were kind of bundled up into, like, nobody has to know category totally. And so that's kind of how I grew up and then got set free from all of that through high school and college and walked with the Lord that whole time. I studied to be an elementary school teacher at Georgia, and I taught school for five years, and I did two years of fifth grade and three years of fourth grade. I never planned to do any of this.

[A]

Teacher Annie, I would have loved to be in your class.

[B]

I don't know that they learned anything, but we had a ball. I mean, I would bring my guitar and make up songs every Friday. I put a joke on the board, and we would spend 20 minutes of our day. I wanted them to understand why it was funny. Like, it mattered to me that I taught them how to be funny. I'm like, they're fourth and fifth graders. They know how to read. All I did was teach them harder words. They'll make it. They'll be fine. And so. But I loved it. And I did work really hard to be a good teacher for them. In that last year of teaching is when my opportunity to start writing really opened up. I had always enjoyed being a writer, but I was leading at my local church's youth group in Atlanta. And the high school girls would come over to my house on Mondays and we would do a Bible study. And for we had done it maybe three semesters and the seniors would go with me to a Christian bookstore and we'd pick out the book they want to read. And this one semester, the seniors could not find a book they wanted. And so. Do you know this story already?

[A]

No.

[B]

And so they, at the. We got back in my little car, we're driving back to my house, and one of the girls was like, will you just tell us stories this semester? And I was like, I can do that. So I sat with the Lord and kind of started outlining, like, what would it look like if I wrote this, like, curriculum for this year, if I wrote them stories? So every weekend I would write a lesson. I would go to school on Monday and print it off on my school printer. I've since taken them paper and been like, sorry. And. And then they would come over to my house that night and they had, everybody had a notebook that they brought and I would three hole punch the papers for the new chapter and I'd hand it to them. They'd spread out all over my house and they would eat, read. And we had a tin of cookies that the rule was you could taste it and if you didn't like it, you could put it back. So there were just like half eaten cookies all over the place. It was so gross. And. And at the end of that semester, one of the girls says, will you print me one more of these and staple it like a book so I can give it to a friend. And I was like, like a book? Wow. Did I just write a book? Wow. And that is how the whole thing started. So the next year I. I went to a writers conference. I started kind of pursuing what does it look like to actually publish a book? And this was in 2006.

[A]

So did that get published?

[B]

That is my first book. It did not come out until 2012.

[A]

What, wait, what was that long ago?

[B]

It's called Perfectly Unique.

[A]

Perfectly Unique.

[B]

And so it is. It came out in 2012. So that's a long time ago, right? 13 years ago. Yeah, 13 years ago. So I'm not exactly the same person I was when I wrote that. That's one thing you've already experienced probably with your books too, and with the work you've done in your public life of like, I was doing the best I could that day. And so there's a lot of Perfectly unique that I really love. And there's other parts where I'm like, I would probably say that differently now. That's true of every book I've ever read.

[A]

Oh, totally.

[B]

It is a yearbook of my experience to that day and the growth I had to that day. I wasn't. And now I'm a different person in a lot of ways. So. But that's Perfectly Unique. That's my first book. So that really kind of started me moving to Nashville, leaving teaching, and now doing this full time. Wow.

[A]

And that is perfectly unique.

[B]

Right? And it has literally been. I mean, April 1st of 2012 was the first day of me doing this job full time. So I've been doing this job full time for 13 years.

[A]

Wow. I actually did not know the story, which is crazy.

[B]

Yeah, I know. And that funny. I mean, just out there, there's like 180 kids that call me Ms. Downs. That. That is like, I know. My second kids book that I wrote, I dedicated to all of them, and it came out two years ago, and I found as many of them as I could on Facebook.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And just was like, can I send you. I mean, do you remember me? Of course. Everyone remembers their teachers, so y. Very kindly. A lot of them remembered me. And so I got to sign a book for him and be like, they'd be like, I have four kids. Will you sign them for my kids? And so it's been really sweet because they're all. I mean, I was only 10 years older than them because I was 20 something and they were in their tens and as a fourth and fifth grader, so, you know, they're all 30.

[A]

Man, that is wild. It's so crazy. Like, what would you be doing? Where would you be?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Who married?

[A]

Yeah. Like, just. And if they hadn't made the comment of, like, yeah, can you put this together so I can give it to my friend?

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

Like a book. And you're like, like a book. If that. I think about that in my life all the time. Like, oh, if that moment hadn't. If that hadn't been said, if that hadn't been done, like, where would I be? What would I be doing? God is so intentional, and so he's just so big. And it's also like, you can't mess up God's plan for your life.

[B]

Yes. That's it. I mean, it was six years between when I wrote that and when it got Published. And I got 47 no's on that book. Wow. I mean, you know, there's not even that many publishers, like, multiple people sitting at desks next to each other said no to me. And. And in the moment, those six years felt crazy long. And I told it to you in a sentence, right? And so then you go like, yeah, God is just at work all the time and. And he is aligning things that in the middle of it, you feel like this is taking forever. And in the big picture, you go, it was six years, but now I've been writing books for 13 years. And I've, you know, it is. It is such a reminder that God is in the details and in the big picture.

[A]

Hey, friends, it's Maddie. If you've read my new book, Dare to be True, I would love to hear what you think. Your reviews mean so much to me. They help more people discover the message and the heart behind this book. So if this book has encouraged you, challenged you, or reminded you to live with bold faith and honesty, would you just take a minute to leave a review? It truly makes such a difference. And if you haven't gotten my new book yet, Dare to Be True, you can go and find it anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey and for daring to be true. For right alongside me. Stay True Merch drop. We got a new Stay True Merch collection, you guys. And this is my favorite collection yet. I am wearing the jersey from the Stay True Merch collection. And you guys, it is so amazing. It says Stay True on the front, stay free on the back. It's got John832. It is the coolest jersey you've ever seen. But we have sweatshirts, we got T shirts. This is seriously my favorite collection yet. This is the perfect Christmas gift, birthday gift, New year gift to yourself. You guys, you need to check out this new collection. I'm so excited about it. And you can go to Stay True podcast dot com. We'll also include the link to the exact merch landing page in the show notes. You guys got to go and check it out. Let me know what you think. If you rep it, tag us. We want to see it. Go and check it out, you guys.

Man, that's so good because I think one of the biggest things people have been dming me a lot about lately is struggling with their career path and what they feel called to do. And, you know, I don't want to miss God's plan for my life. And am I doing what you know God made me to do. And it just can feel like a very daunting, overwhelming, hard to find contentment, continuous restlessness, you know, even like a hopeless feeling sometimes for a lot of people. And I've had moments like that in my life. I would love for you to speak to that. Like, for someone who maybe is in a position where they're in a season of life, maybe their expectations have been left unmet. They're not where they thought they would be, but they know. And maybe they know there's more for their life, but they're just in that wrestle of, like, I don't really know what God has called me to do. I don't know if this is the right career path, but I also just don't know what to do.

[B]

Yeah, life screwed us up a little bit. Do you remember the game Shoots and Ladders? Yes. Okay, here's the problem with games like Chutes and Ladders is that we learn that when we're five that you can spin a thing and hit the exact box that's gonna send you all the way back to the start. And it's a fun little game when you're a kid and then you grow up and you go, am I gonna roll this dice wrong?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And am I gonna hit a ladder and get to go up and get exactly what I wanted, be on the right elevator at the right time and have a meet cute with the right guy. And suddenly I'm married, Right. And we worry, am I gonna roll this dice and take this job? Am I gonna pray this prayer? And I think I hear God say, this city. And I'm gonna roll the dice, and I'm gonna hit a shoot, and I'm gonna hit a slide, and I'm gonna go all the way down. And so what we need to do is just remove from our brains that our lives are anything like Chutes and Ladders. Cause they aren't. The picture I have in my brain of what it is actually more like is, you know, those. I've never seen this in real life. I'm sure some of our friends listening have. But when you see horses running on the beach.

[A]

Oh, beautiful.

[B]

Beautiful. And they are. They are not worried. They are built for this. And so they're just running. And so some of them turn off and they make different choices and. And. But it is just beautiful to see that they are just following the path. And so life is so much more like that than shoots and ladders. And. And I just don't think if you are pursuing God. I do not think you can miss what he has for you. You can't miss the job, the city, the partner, the plan he has for you. I just don't think he works like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the good news is, I mean, we can make mistakes for sure, but let's say you decide someone listening is like, I've been living in Birmingham my whole life. I think I want to move to Seattle. God, is that you? Should I go? What if it's not shoots and ladders? Book a flight, go to Seattle, go for three weeks, go for a month, get a Airbnb, try it out, or move. And you know what? You can go back. A good thing about 20, 25 is cities do not lock gates behind you. So you can always go back. There's just. There's so much more freedom to, like, try than I think a lot of us feel. And so when you say to me, for our friends who are listening, who feel like they've missed it, you've probably made mistakes, and you have certainly been disappointed. Whether that's your choice or not, you have not missed it. So what. What's the next thing you want to do? God is just so much more generous than I think we give him credit for. Of, like, he'll let us try. Yeah. And he'll clean. He cleans up more messes for me, Maddie. The amount of messes the Lord cleans up for me, because he lets me try. Yeah. And I go like, oh, I got it. I tried. And this is a disaster. He's like, I don't.

[A]

We're going to live our life paralyzed and limited if we're trying to control and calculate every single little moment. And that's not freeing. Like, I love that you said when you just. When you're rooted in Scripture, when you're rooted in godly community, when you're in the local church, when you have wise counsel around you and you have an intimate relationship with the Lord, it's like, okay, then just trust the peace that he's putting on your heart, and then just try it and give it to God.

[B]

Those caveats are very helpful because if. If one of our friends listening is like, I think I want to move to Seattle. I haven't asked anybody. I haven't prayed. I haven't talked to my mentor, my pastor, my parents, my friends. I would slow down. I would get some voices around. I think there is a world where you get too many voices. You don't need 19 people, but you need three or four really trusted voices, whether it's friends or siblings or parents or mentors or pastors. And you just kind of go, can I lay this idea in front of you? I'm not sure I'm right, but this is what I'd like to do. And let. And everyone is going to tell you their thoughts, opinions are so. It has amazed me how everyone else seems to know what I should do with my life so often. And I appreciate their love and concern. And I have to lay out what I think is right to do to my mentors and my counselor and my pastor totally. And then go, like, can I try?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And people go, yeah, we don't know how this is going to end either. You can try, man. And that's. We just go make trying cool again.

[A]

Yeah, right, right. Like, I think we are. We're so afraid to fail. We're so afraid of rejection that we don't try. And it's like, man, if God's putting a passion, desire in your heart, you've talked about it with wise counsel. The people around you that you trust love and that love God, you know, are speaking into it. You've prayed about it, you have peace about it. Try it, go for it, do it, give it a shot. And then also, like, being faithful with where you are, with what has been entrusted to you, I think is really important. I love. Something I love about you, Amy, is that you bring so much joy and life, every room that you walk into and you make following Jesus look so fun and cool. And I think that we live in a culture and a time in the world today where it's almost like following Jesus, there's all these things you're gonna have to miss out on. There's all these things that, you know you're gonna have to, like, God's withholding from you, fun, pleasure, power, opportunities, all of these awesome things that look really cool. And following Jesus is just kind of, like, boring. You just gotta do, you know, gotta, like, follow the rules and check, check, check. But you really do such a beautiful job. Not of ever minimizing, like, the reality of hardship and pain and things like that, but even in all of that and with all of that showing Jesus is better, like, he's just better. And he really is the way to abundant life. And so can you speak into that a little bit for maybe the person who's just been, like, wrestling with their faith, or maybe they found themselves, like, going through the motions or just trying to, like, do everything perfect, like, let me just do what God's word says. I just have to be perfect for God, what would be your advice of, you know, following Jesus and being able to experience the abundant life that he offers us?

[B]

Yeah, I so connect with that feeling of doing it all right. And I would rather do it right. I used to have a narrative, particularly in my 20s, Maddie, where I was like, if I do this right, I'd rather do everything right and not mess up as best I can so that I get what I want. And I think a lot of the times that we feel bound up in behavior with God is about what we want from him more than it is about obeying him. Because when it gets to be just about doing what God's called you to do, but it's not about an outcome, it gets way more fun. So that's part of it is like.

So for me, not married yet, can I remove. If I do all the right steps, I will get to get married. If I do this just right, the Lord will bring the right guy to me. Can I remove that If. And instead go, what does it look like to, like, build the most abundant fun, like, wide open life possible in hopes that God also still answers my prayers?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, and that's why I started living part time in New York, Maddie, is because I was suddenly like, wait, what am I waiting on?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if it fits in my budget and if my team can make it work, like, what am I waiting on? And there are things that I believe are just for marriage. For example, sex. For example. Sharing a bank account. Yeah. For example. What else did I put? There's a lot of other things, like honeymoons. I'm not gonna go on a honeymoon with a friend. Right. I can go on trips with friends. Yeah. I, I, I. It always used to be hard for me when my friends would say, I don't want to go to that country until I get married, or I don't want. And it's. And I used to the same. I had this really.

Cheap comforter on my bed in my 20s. And the whole time my narrative in my head was, when I get married, I'm going to get a nice comforter. And then I slept under that comforter for five or six years. And I was like, what are you doing? It's a hundred and fifty dollars. It's not like I'm trying to get a Lexus. It's a comforter. Like, get the comforter. And here I am a decade and a half later and I have a very nice comforter that is not required for waiting on marriage. Right. And so what I would say is, if you Wanna live free with God. Really identify. What are the couple of things that I'm dreaming of that I cannot do right now. Maybe it is your dream is to be a mom or to be a parent. There are ways you can mother right now that don't look like birthing a kid or adopting a kid. And so that's where the abundant life comes from, is when you. When you grieve what you don't have, but you embrace what you do have. What's the 90% you do have? I have 90% of the things I want to do in my life. Like, let's go. I'm having a ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's 10% of my life I'm not getting to do that I've always wanted. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that number sometimes fluctuates up to 60% that I'm not going to do and down to 1% of how my life feels. And so I think.

Scripture never said abundant life was for people who had everything they wanted. Because nobody has everything they want.

[A]

Amen. An abundant life is not tied to a relationship status.

[B]

No. Or a bank account status or a kid status or a city status. You know, everybody and. And everybody can put. Put their finger on someone else's life. I do this on Instagram. I just had to block a girl yesterday who I'm sure is very lovely. I could not watch her life anymore. Yeah. Because she has everything. No, she doesn't.

[A]

This is real.

[B]

Of course she doesn't. There are things she wants that she doesn't have. I don't know her at all. I don't know her middle name. I don't know what her address is. I just kept seeing her life indicating to me she has everything she wants and I don't. And so I had to block her. She'll never know. I'll unblock her when I get right with the Lord. But. But yeah, she. I mean, she doesn't know I exist. We have to do things like that sometimes because we have to remind ourselves nobody has everything they want. And I can have an abundant life right here.

[A]

Amen. Amen. And what does that look like practically for you? Every day? Choosing. Okay. My expectations haven't been met. There are still desires in my heart that I have and being aware of that and not pushing that under or just pretending that they're not there. Being aware that you have these desires that have not been met, these expectations that maybe for God that have not been met, prayers that have not been answered. And you're in the in between, but you're like, I only have one life. Like, I'm gonna seize the day. I'm gonna make the most of the life I've been given. But what does that look like practically for you to wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to make the most of today?

[B]

Yeah, you said it. I have only got one life. Yeah. I've only get to just. I mean, now this is the short part. Eternity is a long part.

[A]

But we got two lives, but one here on earth.

[B]

That's exactly right. And so I feel that pretty profoundly. I. I didn't tell you this part of my story, but I lived in Scotland for a year. Ish. A little less than a year. And when the pastor in Scotland called and said, would you like to come join our church staff and be a part of planting a college ministry? One of my first thoughts, I was 30. 30. I was 30 years old. And one of my first thoughts was, but I want to get married. And I wrestled with that a little bit of like, do I leave Nashville? Like, I want to get married now. Scotland has men, and they are very attractive and they wear kilts and they have awesome accents. I mean, what was I thinking? It's not like I was moving to a place that did not have what I was looking for. But I sat with a friend, we rocked on a front porch in rocking chairs, and she said, if you say no to this, you could blink and be 40 and not married. And you missed an entire decade of saying yes to things like this. And I thought, I'll never be 40 and not married. 45, not married. But it was eye opening to me because I wasn't seizing the day. There was this opportunity right in front of me. And God says in revelation, it says, the doors the Lord opens, nobody can close. The doors he closes, nobody can open. So why am I beaten down a closed door of trying to marry some dude in Nashville When I'm 30 years old, when he's opened this door for me to move to another country and help plan a college ministry and just thrive in. In life? And I'm busy focused on the closed door. Right? And so for me, that. That every day, that's what it looks like. So today, here's my example. Today, this actual. The last 24 hours, I switch sides of the bed. I love switching sides of the bed. It's a thing you can't do because Grant's over there. Dang it.

[A]

I. I'm gonna ask him tonight if we can.

[B]

Amazing. Yeah. I move my clock. I move my kindle I move my whole life to the other side of the bed. About three times a year, I switch. And it is a. It's a. To keep the integrity of the mattress because I'm the only one there. And so otherwise, it has one dip side. But the other thing is, it's something I can do, and it, like, gives me a little bit of joy. Yeah. And so there I find an abundant life right now by reminding myself what I can do. Yeah, I can make. I can go to New York tomorrow. Nobody cares. I mean, my friends care, you care, but nobody cares. Like, no one's checking my. And saying, well, we can't, because we have this. This we don't. I am going to New York. And so there's a lot I can do, right? I am. There's a couple of things I don't get to do, but there's a lot I can do. And so I grieve what I don't have. And my counselor at the end of my 30s, Maddie, she said, have you ever grieved that you didn't get what you want? And I was kind of like, yeah, of course. I have sat about it a lot. She was like, no, I need you to, like, I need you to sit and write and think about that you'll never be a wife or a mom in your 20s or 30s. Because most of my friends were and are. And so that was like a day of like, oh, I missed out on that totally. I missed out on those doing those things with my friends. I had to do that once. And then you go, now what do I have and what do I get to do? What can I do? And so it's holding both. Abundant life doesn't come when you tell yourself you have everything. Abundant Life is when you tell yourself the truth. And then you get excited about what. What does this make possible?

[A]

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Wow. That's so good. That's really good because I and I have some friends right now that they're in this wrestle, this waiting period and they're like, when is this going to become my reality? God, when are you going to bring this to me? I feel this desire. I feel almost like it's like we all. I don't want to speak for all women. It feels like majority of women that I know in my life, it's almost like we have this entire. Like, we. We feel entitled to. That is something we should have and we deserve to have.

[B]

Yes. Man.

[A]

I wonder, like, what. Why do you feel like we, as women idolize marriage and being married so much? And why is it such a deep desire? Some of it, I feel like, is biblical, and then, you know, other parts of it, I feel like we. It becomes more important to us than our own relationship with God and just loving the people in front of us. And so I'd love for you to even just speak into, like, why is it. Why is marriage an idol? And why in singleness do we lack contentment in the season that God has us in?

[B]

I think particularly for women, we can trace some of it to culture. You know, my grandparents, my grandmother probably wouldn't have ever considered. I mean, you're an old maid if you're 45 and single. Right. Like, you live with your parents. There was just a. The culture for so long has told women the highest achievement is to meet someone and get married and. And financially. 50 years ago, 60 years ago, women couldn't take care of themselves as easily as we can. And so there's some real pillars and culture that we are having to maneuver around to be healthy and being single and female.

And also, God has set up a beautiful system for men and women to coexist and to live together and to be married. And so we desire that. Yeah. And so biblically, there is a. Christ is the head of the church, like the husband is the head of a household. That it is in us. And Eve, when she got the curse, her curse was she would desire her husband that.

[A]

See, that's not talked about enough.

[B]

Right, Right. That's messy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's part of our problem.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Is that is in us.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And wow. And culture also said for a really long time.

Women, the way you get the dream life is to get married. And so where do we sit in 2025? Scripture's still true. And the way we are built is still true. What culture tells women now is you can be independent, get a girl. And what we don't want to do, that I can tend to do is overcorrect and be like, I don't need him. I can pay my own bills. I have my own house, I have self control. I can feed myself, I can go to the gym, I can do everything. I don't need him. Can I open your door for you? I can open the door. We'll get there twice as fast if I just open the door.

And so we get to practice not being hyper independent. Now, the problem happens is that you've experienced this, I'm sure with your friends, but single women.

Want to practice not being hyper independent. It's really hard to practice that by yourself. And so you have to give yourself a little grace. You neither need to practice it in intimate friendships and friendships with couples and friendships with family and friendships with other people, or as you start dating, you get to practice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's the same as true with secure attachment. It's really hard to practice secure attachment when there's no one to attach to. You can be like, I've done all the work I can on not being anxiously attached, but how do I know, right? I gotta practice. Right? And so some of that is true with our independence too. And so the entitlement we feel, to go back to your original question, the entitlement we feel is culturally given a little scripturally given, a little innate, a little part of who we are. And now culture wants us to overcorrect and feel entitled to, to take care of ourselves. And the gospel invitation is a narrow road where we go, I can you take care of yourself? Of course you can. You are totally capable. Do you have to? You don't. And the partner you end up with, he doesn't have to take care of himself either. We get to help take care of them too. And so that's the, the way we deal with entitlement is to get grateful and to go, I'm so thankful that there's a narrow road that I'm going to learn to walk on and that is going to make me healthy in this relationship. I'll quickly say, the other thing that makes me feel entitled is when I'm acting like the older brother in the prodigal son story.

[A]

Oh yeah, the self righteousness.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm the queen of that, I think. I mean, a while ago I had a breakup and in the breakup, one of the things I said so Lord is.

I think I deserve better than this. And then I was like, why? Like, I had to ask my, like I heard myself say it and I said to myself, why? Tell me why. Yeah, because I'm old, because I've been wise, and because a lot of people are Watching I thought I was going to get a perfect story. I'm not. Because whoever I end up with is a sinner just like me. And so the Lord has really dealt with my entitlement of the longer you wait, the easier the story is. Where's that in scripture? It's not. And so entitlement can sneak up on us in a thousand ways. And so thanks be to God that he goes, hey, don't be the older brother here. Yeah. Don't, don't live with that self righteous entitlement stuff. That again fits in the category of the sins that I love are the ones that nobody sees if I'm just fun at a party. Right. Nobody. But I can, I can live like that older brother who says, I've been out here slaving for you. God.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where's my party?

[A]

Where's my reward?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the thing that makes Jesus such a genius storyteller. Maddie, I'm sure you've taught this before and seen it before, but that, that Jesus is just a genius because as we're reading the story, we know what happens with the younger brother. The party happens, he comes back. We know what happens with the father restored to the son, to the younger son. And then the father goes out to the fields where the older son is and says, everything I have is yours. Come, you've gotta be a part of this. Your brother's was dead and now he's alive. And then Jesus moves on. And we never know if they' older brother went to the party. And I'm like, I will not be the older brother that misses the party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I face my entitlement a lot.

[A]

So it's so good, it's such a good story too, of a reminder of like there's so often these two roads that we take and it's either one of rebellion or one of self righteousness.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And you see that we're both. Gosh, that. Oh man. Yeah. I've been in those. I've been in those moments too.

[B]

Same.

[A]

And it's crazy how it's so easy. It's like why it's so hard to just. I think sometimes to just be faithful and just be content and just trust God. And there is moments, I think where we have to. I was literally having a conversation with someone the other day where you have to command your heart sometimes when you're feel you're not feeling it, when your mind's thinking all kinds of crazy lies and thoughts. We have to command yourself, like put your Trust in God.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Psalm 42. Like, why are you so downcast? Why are you depressed? Why are you anxious? Why are you. And it's like you just gotta command your heart sometimes. Put your hope in God. It's so easy to put your hope in an outcome. It's so easy to put your hope in a person or yourself. Or yourself. Which is the most dangerous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the reality is, is that you're. You're gonna let yourself down. Other people are going to let you down. Circumstances are going to change, Things are going to fall through. It's the broken world we live in. It's the sinful self that we are and that other people are. And that's why we serve a perfect God. And it's that reminder of put your hope in God. Because people are going to fail me. Things are. I'm going to have unmet expectations. I'm going to have dreams that weren't met. I'm going to experience moments of heartache and heartbreak and waiting and loneliness. And it's like I got to remind myself, put your hope in God. Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[B]

Zoe. This thing weighs a ton. Drewski, lift with your legs, man. Santa.

[A]

Santa, did you get my letter?

[B]

He's talking to you, bridges. I'm not.

[A]

Of course he did. Right, Santa?

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Visit t mobile.com and that looks different for different people. Like wherever you are in your season of life and whatever you're faced with. But I remember.

[B]

But it doesn't look different at 7 o' clock in the morning, while you're getting ready, it looks the same for everybody to go, exactly, okay, God. And you just pull up Psalm 72 or 42 and you just read it.

[A]

Read it, speaking for yourself.

[B]

Put my hope on God. Yeah, sorry, Tell your story. But I just want to say it does look different. But it doesn't. It doesn't. When you're trying to fall asleep.

[A]

That's the truth. It's like it may look different on the outside, but it's the same on the inside.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Like, we still have the same inner struggles and wrestles. Because here's the thing, if you don't learn contentment and singleness, you ain't gonna learn contentment in marriage. Bless. That's the reality. That's the reality. Point blank, period. If you don't know who you are in Christ in singleness, you're not going to know who you are in Christ in marriage. Now, I'm not saying you can't have an encounter with God once you get married and it changes things. But I'm saying if we're looking for people or places or things to fill what only God can fill, like Psalm 23:1 is, it is true. It is God's truth. The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

[B]

He.

[A]

We have everything we need in him. And we have to receive that truth and believe that truth wherever we're at in our season of life. But I remember in talking about, you know, idolizing marriage, I remember when I had been dating a guy for four years, all of my friends were getting married, and I, you know, felt entitled to, like, it's my time. Like, come on, why aren't you proposing to me? And, you know, it was kind of just this ongoing conversation. Well, like, you know, and just a constant drawn out thing. And I was like, you know, I felt like moments of rejection, like everybody else is getting the dream proposal. Why is this not happening for me? And I remember having this moment in my prayer time where the Lord asked me to lay down this relationship. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not gonna lay down this.

[B]

Really?

[A]

And he's like, I need you to lay down the relationship. And I remember coming across that verse in Matthew 6 or 7 where it says, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. And he's like, this person is your treasure. This person is your heart. Marriage is your heart. The idea of marriage and what people see you being married is your treasure. And I remember having that moment of like, man, that's a hard wake up call, God, but I still don't want to let go. And I let go and I laid the relationship down thinking I was going to get to pick it right back up. No, no, that's not quite what happened. He ended up marrying my best friend and then I went on the Bachelor and then it's getting weirder and weirder, you know what I mean? And so then life just got interesting and took a lot of twists and turns and a lot of heartache and heartbreak in seasons of, you know, feeling like the bridesmaid and not the bride and having to going through heartbreak and having to like, stand by my best friends getting married and throw the b bachelorettes and throw the, you know, all the things and just wondering, like, God, why am I having to go through this? But more than anything, it really taught me, like, who I am becoming in the waiting is more important than what I'm waiting for. And he is more important than what he can ever give me. Like just he himself, the giver is more important than the gift.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I can't just sit here and ask his hand to give me all of these things. Like, I need to seek his face and just long to be in his presence. And, and I'm not missing out. Like, I am fully married to God. I am in intimate relationship with Him. And having that realization changed a lot for me and then allowed me to be able to embrace singleness and see singleness as a gift and as an opportunity to get as close to Jesus as possible and serve the people around me well. And so I, I would love to talk about this idea of singleness is a gift. You hear it all the time. I think a lot of times it makes everyone want to either vomit, punch somebody in the face, vomit, throw up, run away. But it is true, depending on how you view it. But Scripture is clear. Paul is clear in First Corinthians 7 about it. And so how do you view singleness as a gift? And what practical advice do you have for those listening on how to perceive and treat singleness as a gift?

[B]

I like how you're saying that because the thing that really ruffles people's feathers is when you say it, the gift of singleness. Because the gift of singleness is the one that people feel like is a backpack that can't take off. They're like, I don't ever pick this. And, and so, but, but can. So the bigger question is, can you look at the life God has given you and say, this is a gift, right? So whether that is a disability you have, whether that is a financial struggle you're going through, whether that is relationally you do not have what you want, how is this a gift from God? And so it is that same thing we're talking about, of turning what we grieve to, what we can be thankful for, but never. You don't have to let go of one for the other. It's the both and of life. So for me, I have found that my singleness has been a gift in a couple of really profound ways. One, I get to do what I want. Like, I'm running after God, and I listen to his direction in my life and I check it with a few trusted voices, but I'm pretty much doing what I wanna do. I kind of get do what I want to do. I get to go where I want to go. I get to make the decisions I want to make. And. And that is really fun. I just get to, like, run after what I think God has for me. Hopefully not unwisely, with the checks around me that I need, but pretty, pretty much get to do what I want. So that's a gift I get to do I want. And I mean, it is a pretty profound thing in Isaiah where God says, I am your husband.

I would really encourage our single friends lean into that. You lean into Jehovah Jireh, my provider, right? Like all these other names of God were, like, roy, Jehovah. Is it Jehovah, Roy? No. R O I, God who sees. And so. And you go, like, yes, God, you see me. Like, I know you see me. And it's like, well, he also says, I am your husband. And so there have been times where I have. Where my dishwasher doesn't work. And I go, if you're my husband, what would you do here? Help me. You say, you're my husband. Help me. And an idea will come to my mind or it'll start working. I am telling you, you ask him to be that for you. Even if you're married, God is your husband. If you ask him to do that for you, he will show up in that role. He's the one who named himself that. Right? I mean, we have, you know, we do a singles group called Single Purpose League, and there's about 2,000 women in it that are all 20s, up to 70s, that are unmarried. Some have never been married, some divorced, some widowed. But it's. The idea is, what's your purpose while you're single and what's your single purpose? They're not the Same. Our single purpose is to love God and other people. What's your purpose right now while you're single? And when we talk about God as your husband, the miracle stories of people being like, my tire was flat, and then it wasn't. I mean, it is, like, wild stories. But then there's also times, Maddie, I had it, like, I don't know when this is coming out, but last December, I had a. I'd been on a couple of dates with someone, and he ghosted at the end. Worst choice, but don't ghost anybody. It's terrible behavior. Just have a conversation. Good gravy. But I. I remember the morning after, like, you know how ghosting goes, where you're kind of like, am I not hearing? Am I not hearing from him? And then there was, like, a profound. We were gonna do a thing, and he ghosted me on a thing. And. And the next morning, I said to God, I thought you were my husband. I thought, a good husband protects his wife. Why didn't you protect me from this?

And because God and I had established that as part of my gift in my single life is that God is that I got to come to him really hurt and say, some of my friends would have protected me. Why didn't you? And it only took a couple of days of praying through that for the Lord to whisper back to me, I did protect you. And I was like, you did it. I'm still hurt. I'm still sad. And then I was already wearing short sleeves, so may, maybe, or March. March. I go to dinner with a mutual friend with the dude from December, and I say, did you hear? We went on a couple of things, and she was like, oh, yeah, you know, the girl before you. Blah, blah, blah. I mean, it just, like, exposed him of things I didn't know. And I was like, God protected me. Oh, my gosh. God protected me. And he told me. He did. He let me be grieved, and he let me be sad, but he told me he protected me. And then he proved it a couple of months later. And so that's the gift, is that I'm 45, in a world where I get married in the next couple of years, no one will have loved me as long as Jesus did. No partner will have been through as many seasons with me as Jesus has. Nobody matters to me like he does. No one will. Other people, everyone will leave. Whether someone dies or breaks up or what, everyone else will leave. He will never leave. And. And that's. That is the basis for the abundant life that's what makes it fun is you go, like, I've got the safetiest safety net ever because I got Jesus. We'll be fine. I may make some stupid choices. There are going to be consequences. All right? Broken hearts, disappointments. All right, I'm safe. My husband's taking care of me. It doesn't always feel like it'll look like it, but he is.

[A]

Yeah. Wow, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I. I feel like so many people listening right now are, like, writing that down of, like, okay, pray when dishwasher breaks. Yes, you are.

[B]

Yes, we'll have to. I can't remember. I think it's Isaiah. I think it's, like, in the 50s. I think it's 56. But we'll find it. And maybe you can put in the show notes or something, the verse that says, God is your husband.

[A]

That's so good, though, and such a good reminder. Like, I think so often we just are only thinking about the physical world that we're living in. And because we can't see God physically with our own eyes, we forget to, like, conversate with him and just, like, invite him into all spaces. I think something that's so interesting, and this is kind of a different tangent, but I think something that's so interesting is we often, like, compartmentalize our faith. It's like, oh, I turn to God, you know, maybe in moments where I really, really, really need something, or I turn to God, you know, in church, or even just, like, my quiet time in the mornings. But then all throughout the rest of my day, like, I'm not really communing with God. I'm not really treating Him. But it's like, if you're saying, God is our husband, God is our partner in life. That is a relationship that you're like, I'm constantly talking to Grant all day long, you know, like, I'm in conversation with Grant. Grant knows, you know, my heart. I know Grant's heart. Like, we're in relationship with one another. It would be so weird if he was. Is compartmentalized into a really small aspect of my life. Like, he is.

[B]

Like, we have everything after dinner. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like, sorry, babe, we only got that one hour. That one hour. If I have my cup of coffee and everything is just right and just perfect, you get that hour of my time. That would be weird. We would have no intimate, real deep relationship. And I would love to dive into that a little bit more because you're describing this beautiful picture of that is what, like, we are in a Marriage.

[B]

All the time with God.

[A]

And he is our husband, and he is our provider, and he is our protector, and he is our comforter, and he is our friend, and he is. He is all of these beautiful attributes that we only look so often to place in other people, and we miss out on that relationship with him. Or we only tap into that one hour of the day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. I just would love, like, what does that look like for you practically to stay in constant communication and intimacy with Jesus. And how do you fight that? I guess, temptation to compartmentalize your faith.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, I would just, like.

[B]

I mean, it's that pray without ceasing verse. Right. And I used to think, I can't do that. I can't pray all the time. And then you're like, well, I can talk all the time, for sure. So in the car, I can say, lord, that does not make any sense. Or, what are you doing? Or, can you help me? Or.

The Holy Spirit is our comforter and our teacher and our advocate. Right. And so I am asking, anything I want to learn, I'm asking the Holy Spirit to help me. Can you help? Can you help me make sense of this? Will you teach me? Will you counsel me on this? I was talking to a friend yesterday who said her exact sentence was, I think I'm really bad at flirting. Because my mom told me I was bad at flirting. And I thought, that is a heartbreaking sentence for someone. For someone to live as an adult female believing you're not good at flirting because your mom told you that. And what we can do. It may sound so weird, Maddie, but anything you want help with, we can ask the Lord. So I was just like, ask the Holy Spirit to teach you how to flirt. I know that may sound so sideways, but, like, I don't want to do anything in dating that the Holy Spirit doesn't teach me. I'll do because I want to do it that way.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And so if you have never held hands, if you have never flirted, if you like, why would that be off the table? He wants to teach you how to be a good leader. He wants to teach you how to care for other people. Why would he not want to teach you how to be good at romantic relationship? Yeah, like, so. So that. So to me, when I think about all the things God can be to me, I am not removing a category off the table because it feels too intimate or weird or sideways. I'm like. Like, if I'm asking you to teach me how to know scripture, I also want you to teach me how to care for a man that I love. Like, I want to know both those things, and the Holy Spirit can teach us that.

[A]

That's really good.

[B]

Yeah. I would imagine in parenting, you're often saying to the Lord, how do I do this? Tell me how to raise this human? And I think we're allowed to do that with anything. Absolutely anything. If you want help with money, if you want help with relationship, if you want help with. What else is. Am I asking the Lord about currently.

[A]

Like, intimacy in marriage? You know, I think even that's something that I'm like. Like, it's supposed to be worship to God. And so I'm like, you know, praying for that and inviting God into that. And it's so funny how we think that there's certain topics with God that are taboo or that we can't bring up.

[B]

And it's like, wait, what?

[A]

He's the creator of all things. He knows your thoughts before you even speak anything out loud, but inviting him into it and wants to help you, and he wants to help you.

[B]

He wants to help me be the best I can be in every relationship, and that includes when I'm in a romantic relationship. And so to me, so much of this intimacy that we get to have in this constant conversation is.

The times where conversations with friends get stalled is when we hit a topic I don't want to talk about, Right? Or when. When at the end of a dinner when you say bye to someone, you're like, well, here's the eight things I didn't tell them because I'm not talking about that. Well, if everything is on the table with the Lord, you don't run out of things to talk about. Whether you're talking about your future, whether you're talking about your. Your next job you want, whether you're talking about your siblings, your sister that you're in a fight with, or how you. How to adjust being an adult who has adult parents. It's a whole thing. I'm sure you've experienced it. And everybody. When you get married, there's the leave and cleave. What do you do when you're 45 and you're not married, but you need to be your own adult, right? Like, so as we're going through our 20s and 30s and figuring out how to even be independent of your parents? The Holy Spirit will teach us. So that's why we pray constantly. It's not that you need to be sitting quietly constantly, and, like, hands folded and like. Like, don't talk to Me, I'm praying continuously. It is like, hey, everything I'm trying to do in my life, I want you to teach me how to do.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And so teach me as I'm going. So it's just constant.

[A]

So good. I love that. And in thinking about being on say True podcast, like, my question to you is like, how do you stay true in singleness? How do you stay true to the truth and to what God's speaking to you in this season that God has you in? And what encouragement would you give those listening who. It would be easy to compromise. It would be easy to settle. It would be easy to give in to confusion or lies or what culture is saying. How do you stay true in singleness?

[B]

Yeah, it is. So it is easy for everyone to compromise. It is such an easy invitation all the time. I'll tell you, one of the funniest things I am so passionate about is if I put something in my grocery cart and I decide I don't want it, I take it back to where I got it from. Because little opportunities to have high integrity build muscles that you need in big opportunities to have high integrity. And so every day you're given the chance to do little things that let you work on that muscle. Right. So how do you stay true? That is your question. Well, it's an everyday thing and it's probably smaller than you think. Nine out of ten days it is. I got those noodles from the noodle aisle and I've decided I'm switching to Mexican food. And I could set them right here by the rice. I'm going to walk them back through the noodles because I want to be high integrity everywhere I go. And so I think that's really important if you want to stay true. You, you never lie. Always tell the truth. Little white lies don't get you anywhere because little white lies lead to medium sized. White lies lead to big, big, big, big. And then you're in a mess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're not living with high integrity. And I heard a counselor say recently, trust is lost in buckets and gained in drops. And so if you're a high integrity person, you have everyone's trust and you're not having to regain it in drops. That's really hard. And so how do you stay true?

High integrity everywhere. Tell the truth, even when it's uncomfortable. One of the things that happens in New York a lot is people say, I'm so sorry I'm late. The trains. Right. You can just blame the subway. Just always blame the subway. And I'm like, if I leave my house late, I need to say to them, I left my house late. And that is a practice I get to do so that I. Because if I will practice telling the truth when the consequences are low, when I'm really having to stay true, when the consequences are high, I've already got those muscles, so. And then the other thing I would say, it's going to sound like a Christiany, churchy answer, but that's me. Stay in Scripture. Amen. If you memorize scripture, know the Bible every day. So I'm. I'm listening to you. Version has Bible app or the YouVersion app has different plans you can do. I've been listening to the Bible project, but Bible in a year, this year. So I do that while I'm getting ready in the morning. I try to sit and read with my eyes at some point every day. I am currently memorizing Psalm 16. I have it laminated.

[A]

Memorized that one.

[B]

Did you?

[A]

Just recently.

[B]

I'm catching up. You're better than me. It's so good. It's really good. Lines have fallen in places.

And even right before that.

[A]

The Lord alone is your portion in your cup. He makes your lot secure. Which is honestly such a good verse to speak over all of you right now of just. If you feel like. You feel insecure and you're. You feel, like, not satisfied, it's like a reminder of the Lord alone is going to give you what you're looking for.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But memorizing Scripture, that's so good.

[B]

It's so good. Just like our mutual friend Levi Lesko. Levi has the book of James memorized.

[A]

I'm memorizing the book of James.

[B]

Are you really? Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So this sounds like I'm like, being so high and holy. We did not plan this. No, I am memorizing the book of James. I'm on the chapter, chapter five right now.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. You already done one through four.

[A]

One through four, Maddie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My whole team rhythm.

[B]

How do you do it?

[A]

Okay, so I don't think I have the best rhythm, so I'll start with that. I honestly just. I'll, like, play it out loud off the Bible app, like, a lot. And then I'll just, like, read it a lot. Just get super familiar with it. And then I'll do a deep dive, like, read some commentaries so that I really understand, like, what it is I'm reading. Especially when we start memorizing, it's so easy to just like, I just got to know It.

[B]

And then.

[A]

No, I want to, like, like, know it. I want it to be written on my heart. And what's interesting is when you memorize a lot of Scripture, it's not like I'd probably right now be able to just James one through four, it. Yeah, but if you came to me with something and you felt brokenhearted over something or you were really struggling, I'm like, James1 says, consider it pure joy. My brothers and sisters.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith will produce perseverance. Hey, if you're confused on what to do, if any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives it to you, you generously, without finding fault, and it will be given to you. And it's like, when people come to you, you're able to give them God's word and not your opinion.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So I. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's just like hearing it a lot, reading it a lot, and then doing a deep dive. And then honestly, just, like, saying it out loud a good amount, like, teaching out. Now I start teaching it to Hosanna. So she'll be sitting right there, and I'm like, okay, Hosanna. Consider it pure joy. See, Mommy's happy. And I'm like, really? I'm doing it all for myself. She has. She probably doesn't know what I'm saying. That is. That is such good advice that it's like, yeah, that sounds so. But it changes your life.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I asked Levi the same thing. I said, how do you do it? Because I was in Montana, and he and one of his daughters were in the cold plunge, and they get in and they're just shivering, and she says, say the Book of James. And he starts. And it's just this beautiful retelling. Wow. Where he just, like, feels like you can tell it is in his heart. I said, how do you do it? And then he showed me later a laminated piece of paper with the Book of James on it. And he's like, hang it up in your shower. So right where I look, when I get. When I'm showering is Psalm 16, laminated. And so I. That is how we stay true is if you were like, keep me safe, oh, God, for in you I take refuge. Right? Like, so every day, right now, I'm going, keep me safe, oh, God, for in you I take refuge. Like, you are my refuge. You're my safest place.

[A]

Place.

[B]

And. And that is how we stay true in our singleness. And. And. And accountability. You just can't do it by yourself. Someone's gotta know. Everyone doesn't need to know everything. One of my pastors says everything you say has to be true. But everything true doesn't have to be said. Right? Like, everyone doesn't need to know your business. But I can promise you, I think this is true about you, too. Someone could write an article about me today and put it on the Internet, and it could be uber embarrassing about my sin, about my history, whatever.

It will not be something that someone doesn't know. It won't be, like, we're shocked. Everyone had no idea. I'm like, well, most y' all didn't, but the four of them knew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so there's. I don't have secrets. I don't have a secret life. It doesn't serve you. And so you stay true by being high integrity, being in the word accountability, no secrets.

[A]

Everything's in the light.

[B]

Every. It is so much easier to have fun when everything's in the light. If you're spinning lies or if you've got a secret life that you're trying to protect, get it out now. You know, we teach kids that hide it under the bushel. No, I'm gonna let it shine. Do you know? It's like this little light of mine.

[A]

I'm gonna let it. Wait, I didn't know that part of the song.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This. I should start with this. That's, you know, that's from a teaching of Jesus. And right after that, he says, everything in the darkness will come to light. And so I'm forever saying to people, you get a chance to bring it to light. If you are in any sin pattern or any secret life, there may be consequences, but go confess it to someone and let's start living in the light. Because if you don't let it out, it will still come out. That is how people's affairs get busted all the time. So true is that they don't tell, but someone else finds out. So you get a chance. Wherever your sin is, you get a chance to let it out now and then. You want to have an abundant life. Run. You can do whatever you want when you don't have secrets. Like, go and do stay true. Go and do whatever you want.

[A]

That's so good. Because you were talking about the shopping cart. I. I have that. Or the. The shopping down the aisle. I have that with my shopping cart. Like, I cannot leave it. I have to go put it back where it is, because I will literally get in my car and start driving. I'm like, oh, the conviction. I gotta go back. I gotta put it back up. And it is so true that it's the small things. When you're faithful with the small, God can entrust you.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But it's also, I think, true in an unhealthy, ungodly way that when we're not faithful with the small things, it leads to really bad, big things. Things.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

And I see that so often when it's like, you see, you know, pastors fall, or you see these big moral sins that you're like, wow, where did this come from? Well, it didn't just come out of nowhere.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It was these small, unconfessed, hidden sins that stayed hidden too long and that no one was brought into. And that is where it gets dangerous. You know, I've talked about a lot on this podcast, and we share a similar testimony of pornography, masturbation, being a part of my story in the past that stayed hidden for so long. And I kept wondering why I couldn't get free from it.

[B]

Right. Nobody knew.

[A]

God, why can't I shake this? I love you, though. God, why can't I shake?

[B]

I'm trying. I have so much control. Nope.

[A]

No, I. It did. I didn't experience true freedom from that sin until I confessed it and brought into the light.

[B]

How many times did you say, if I do this one more time, I'm going to tell somebody. If I had a dollar. If I had a dollar, I'll never do this again. If I. If one more time. If I Google that one more time, I'm going to tell somebody. And then you're like, no, yeah, no, you won't. But then you finally do, and the chains just break. Gosh, it's so much better.

[A]

The shame you felt, it breaks it.

[B]

It. And then what happens is. She says, me too. Yeah. You go, oh, my gosh, I'm not the.

[A]

I'm not the only one. Like, the enemy was telling me that I was the only one thinking that thing. And so I even hope this is encouragement for those of you who maybe you're in singleness, in relationships, in marriage, you're having thoughts you shouldn't be having. And I. And this is not even sexual ref. Anything, you know, a comparison. Jealousy, insecurity, pride, fear, lust. I mean, you name it. Idolizing, having idols on your heart. Confess it. Confess it to God. Confess it to a godly friend. Have them pray over you. Have them hold you accountable. It is life changing. And I love what you're saying about be so intentional with the small things. Like, our small, everyday decisions actually matter so much more probably, than those really big moments. I think we're gonna get to heaven one day and actually be so, so surprised by what pleased God. I really do. I think God's gonna be like, maddie, great. I mean, great job. You spoke at that conference. Cool, Whoopi. But you put the grocery cart back, and then you acknowledge the cashier and you acknowledge the person. Like, I think he really cares about the small things.

[B]

I do, too.

[A]

I really do. And I just don't want us to overlook the small things because we're so fixated and focused on the really big moments. Because the reality is, if we're not faithful with those small things, we're gonna get presented with those big moments, and we're gonna probably fumble it. We're gonna fumble the ball, you know, because we weren't faithful with the small things. At some point, it's gonna break, it's gonna crash. And that's why you have to build that muscle. Like what you're saying?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Build the muscle with the small things. This is so good. I just love this so much. I love this conversation. And I feel like this was. We. We went in a lot of different directions, but it was this overall, like, theme of contentment in God, living an abundant life wherever you are, whatever your season of life is. If you feel like you're in the waiting season, waiting on a job or a spouse or kids, like, learning to live this abundant life and be faithful with where you are and what God has for you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Focusing on the 90 of, like, what you do have and not the 10 of what you don't have. And continue to put your hope in God. Sometimes you just got to command your heart, put your hope in God. And so I'm so thankful. Thank you for coming on this podcast, for having me. It was so good. I would love for you to just pray over our friends and close us in prayer. Just whatever God lays on your heart to pray over them.

[B]

Yeah, Lord. So we. We just open our hands to you and. And we hand back all the things we're holding tightly to that we have put some of our identity in or some of our, like, hope in. And then we keep our hands open, God, for you to just hand us whatever you have for us. We want what you want with our lives and God, we want to live with high integrity. We want to live with kindness and fruits of the spirit, and we want to look like you to the world. So help us with that. God, there's so many of our friends listening. And me and Maddie too. Like, we just all have things we want that we don't have. So would you meet us there? Would you show us the gifts you have given us today? And we know we just have today. All we can do is today. So thank you for today. Thank you that you are our portion and our cup and our lot is secure today. And we are grateful. God, Holy Spirit, would you just do whatever you want to do in our lives today. We give you permission. You're a great teacher. The thing we don't know how to do, teach us. Help us. We are just leaning on you. We love you. In Jesus name, amen.

[A]

Amen. So good. Well, thank you for coming on. We love you guys. And as always, stay you, stay true. We love you.

[B]

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